By September 12, 2011 320 Comments Read More →

After the sociopath, advice for heartbreak

I subscribe to a service through which reporters who are looking for information for their stories can find sources. Not long ago, a reporter posted the following query:

A reporter at a national publication is writing about the hell of heartbreak and is looking for people to interview who have experienced a romantic breakup or divorce and who have creative/unusual advice on how to get through the day-to-day emotional turmoil of it. If you’ve been through a breakup (as an adult), how did you deal with the emotional pain, especially in the very beginning? How did you distract yourself from your heartache? How did you keep yourself from calling or texting your former beloved? What advice would you give to someone else in the middle of a heartbreak?

Most of us are here on Lovefraud because we experienced the most devastating, heartrending breakups of all—those involving sociopaths.

Ours were not run-of-the-mill relationships where the ending was, “he’s just not into you.” Ours were not situations in which two people “just grew apart.” Ours were false relationships from the very beginning, in which we were targeted, exploited and betrayed.

Advice? Yes, I have advice.

First of all, if you were involved with a sociopath, NORMAL ADVICE DOESN’T WORK. Even though self-help gurus have sold millions of books, and even if your friends have been through many, many relationships, unless they, too, have been targeted by sociopaths, THEY DON’T KNOW WHAT THEY’RE TALKING ABOUT.

So, the first bit of advice is DON’T LISTEN TO PEOPLE WHO DON’T GET IT.

Back to positive advice. What is the one thing you need to understand if you’ve been involved with a sociopath? IT’S NOT YOU!

Oh, the sociopath certainly told you that you were the problem, told you that you had problems, and even blamed you for his or her atrocious behavior. But that was all part of the manipulation. Sociopaths intentionally make you doubt yourself. Sometimes it’s to make you malleable so they can take advantage of you, sometimes it’s just for their own entertainment. If you’re feeling nuts, you are having a rational reaction to an insane situation, and your ex is the one causing the insanity.

Next you need to know that the relationship NEVER WOULD HAVE WORKED. Although sociopaths  lavishly proclaim their love, they’re lying. Sociopaths are incapable of love. But they have learned that if they mouth the words “I love you,” they can get what they want. And what they want is to exploit you.

If you’ve been involved with someone like this, there is nothing you could have done differently. Nothing would have made the situation better. The sociopath cannot be satisfied, and cannot change.

So how should you view your experience? DON’T TAKE IT PERSONALLY. Yes, really. The fact that you were mistreated had nothing to do with you or your behavior. It had everything to do with the fact that you were involved with a cruel, heartless sociopath.

If your ex didn’t do it to you, he or she would have done it to someone else. Why? Because that’s what they do.

Finally, YOU CAN RECOVER, BUT IT WILL TAKE TIME. This is not a normal breakup. It wasn’t only your heart that was broken. It was also your view of the world.

Give yourself time and permission to heal. Surround yourself with people who truly care about you, and embark on a program of NO CONTACT with the sociopath. Even though you pine for the individual, understand that you fell in love with a mirage, and what you’re feeling is residual addiction to the relationship.

Do not call. Do not text. Do not send email. The stronger your commitment to NO CONTACT, the faster you will mend.

Take positive steps. Find joy and happiness anywhere you can, and let them seep into the empty hole that was your heart. Eventually, your heart will fill up and you can try again—with much more wisdom than you had before.

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This one article all by itself Completely sums up the “recovery from a break up with a personality disordered person.”


Donna said, “It wasn’t only your heart that was broken. It was also your view of the world.”

If you had to say it in a nutshell, that would be it. (another pun!)


Yes, they really can get you thinking that bad guys really do win.

“It wasn’t only your heart that was broken. It was also your view of the world.”

Wow Donna, really hit the nail on the head here, as with the whole article…but this particular snippet is one of the hardest things I’ve had to deal with. I never wanted to see this side of humanity. Now I realize how lucky people around me are that they don’t know. I notice that others really do see the best in people and they just don’t know. I watch them and think that I used to be like that. “The benefit of the doubt” is a concept I’ve had to greatly adjust.

Oh Skylar you picked out the exact same part! Hmmm. Just goes to show how we all get each other.


Donna, I hope you sent this in as source material.



In another thread, we were just talking about the movie THE GOOD SON from 1993 about a little boy who is a sociopath. He was a hurtful, manipulative liar, and he was only about 10 years old.

Imagining THAT THING growing up, and imagine DATING that thing.

It’s a HOLY SHIAT. If people don’t understand sociopathy, they will after seeing this moving. If they don’t understand dating or breaking up with a sociopath, they’ll understand a whole lot more after seeing this movie.

Anyway, GREAT ARTICLE, you really rock.


Thank you so much for posting this. It is really what I needed to hear. I appreciate all your support.

It is just a shame that my ex spath was able to convince a whole community that he was the good guy while destroying my reputation. But I do see that if these people from my hometown choose to believe him and all his lies; if they choose to cater to his false image, then they are not worth the time and effort to convince otherwise. It just sucks that he got away with it in that arena.

Those who truly know me, love and support me regardless.

It is still mind boggling how cunning and manipulative they are.

Oxy, thank you for your support as well. It means the world to me.

Well, Donna, I definitely agree with step one:


Absolutely. One of my friends, after telling her everything that was going on, thought the solution was for me to write a list of everything I don’t want him to do and then give it to him. Yeah, I wrote that list. He read it and forgot everything on the list within 24 hours. My friend had thought this “list” would solve all these problems. Heh. Right…that’s like being thrown into a fist fight with nothing but a piece of paper as a weapon. If the words on the paper don’t work, all that’s left is lots of paper cuts!!! ahah.

Anyways, yes, people who don’t get it can actually give advice that makes the problem worse.

Concisely worded in a nutshell! It does take time, it is possible to recover, and your life and your heart will mend. At my age, I view my experience as one where I learned wisdom I didn’t know I needed, and I share my new-found knowledge whenever I can. As always, thanks to everyone here who writes about sociopaths as an education for others!

Hi, Been a while since I’ve signed in. Just having a really bad evening…thinking too much. That is my worst side-effect after dealing with an XS. ugghhh…
I find myself saying ‘Just get over it, let it go!’
Never works. h e l p.


Missled, How long has it been?

are you thinking too much or are you over-vigilant?

Hi one

I’m having a really terrible time of it. Since I last saw him, just over 2 years. Since we last communicated, 4 weeks ago.
My mind just keeps going back to his nonsense over and over, trying to make sense of things I guess. He was very good, I was so conned.


oh girl – STOP talking to him. eeek , that’s one of the reasons you are having a hard time – you are still in contact.

read, girl, read! and write. have you read ‘the betrayal bond’?

Not in contact with him, 4 weeks now. I was asking too many questions last time we e-mailed.

I know I’m over him, but I think I’m back to stuck in the anger phase. I’m so angry I let him reach out to me even if it was only a phone call or e-mail.

I also hate wasting my time, investing my time in something or someone who matters a lot to me. What a big waste of time he was. Complete waste of time. THAT makes me even angrier.


missled, so just start where you are. go NC, start reading and writing more, and find a counselor (as you had mentioned). There is NO way you are going to get over him, if you stay in contact with his lies and bs.


missled – be angry. it’s what you feel.

Thanks, I’m happy to be NC. I know where it got me in the end and I’m not going there again.

You know what? I haven’t cried yet. Not once. Think I’m too angry to cry.

I want to find the ‘Betrayal Bond’ to read. I’m reading another book right now that’s been helpful, ‘Without Conscience’. It’s very good


I find books on Amazon.com that are used and therefore CHEAP. I’m a book a holic and a read-a-holic and it does help us put it all together and understand.

It starts out about learning about THEM then becomes learning about OURSELVES.

Anger is only PART of the grief process and if you are stuck there for a while, it WILL pass if you work on it…the process is going up and down, back and forth, one day sad, the next day angry, the next day bargaining, the next denial, and back and forth, one day you’ll reach acceptance (the goal) but you may back slide some and go back to the other emotions, but eventually you’ll get to acceptance and stay there. It takes TIME and WORK and you can only “speed it up” by working harder at understanding them and understanding and being kind to YOURSELF.

Hang in there and educate yourself. “Without Conscience” is a good book to start with, and there are HUNDREDS of articles here. Go to the various categories and read (just the articles, at first, save the comments for later) EVERY article….you will find things in each article that you can relate to, some things that you can’t relate to NOW but will be able to relate to them later.

Knowledge is power! Take that power and learn. But total NC is the FIRST STEP that will lead to healing, and that means COMPLETE NC…not even look at his FB page, or give any information to anyone who will talk to him, and don’t listen to anyone who has talked to him. Cut him and his friends off like a cancerous tumor because without that, it will infect your whole body and soul! God bless.

Your’e feelings are normal. I was with my xbf for six months when I started having gut feelings that things weren’t right. Then another six months when I found out that he was lying about several things. So, at this point, one year…I started my break up with him…It was back and forth for the next six months. So, now it was 1 1/2 yrs with him. Thats when I really broke up and broke down. I was NC for 4 months and went back with him for 4 months. I ended it again…for 2 months…then went back with him “Platonicly”….I weaned him out of my life for the next 6 months. Finally HE ended the “friendship” because I wouldn’t sleep with him.

I went through the same feelings…couldn’t cry until the big break up, at the 1 1/2 yr mark. Couldn’t cry since.

Don’t feel that anything in your life is a “waste” of time. It was part of your life experience that you needed to go thru to become who you are.

My X had a LOT of value in my life. At first he was a distraction from my daily life struggles…made me feel like a “woman” again and cared for…after my divorce 5 yrs prior.

It was meant to be that I met him…for many reasons. People come into our lives for a reason. I believe that. Even though the r/s was painful at times..he was there for me when I needed him in different ways…moral support…friendship.

After the first lie, I never trusted him as a boyfriend, so I just considered us friends and he did come through for me with certain things that I needed him for.

Yes, he caused me pain with his lies..but it forced me to study people, sociopathy, and find LF, which has taught me so much!! Yes, it changed the way I looked at the world..and people. BUT, it was for the better for me! AND,…my girls!!!

It changed me. I was TOO trusting before. I was TOO nice and TOO open.

Dealing with someone who is so disordered really makes you stronger. …if they don’t “kill” you! I am NOT the same and I never want to be how I was before…naive!

I am now WISER and SMARTER and STRONGER than ever in my life.

So, NEVER say that any experience is a waste!!

Read the betrayal bond and learn to understand what makes you (subconsciously) want to get love from people who are incapable of loving. Once you understand yourself…you will start to heal. And when you do…you won’t want disordered people in your life anymore.

I am finally at peace. And, yes, I miss the fun part and the friendship…but he wasn’t really a TRUE friend for life. I took what was good from the relationship, the things he taught me…and thats it. TRUE friendship is based on honesty. Thats why the r/s didn’t last.

But, from everyone and every experience in life…we learn.

I learned to not be so desparate for a companion, and not to settle for someone I felt in my gut over and over…wasn’t being honest…and to leave any r/s that is not “real” when I know something is not right.

I also learned what the “red flags” are…the signs ….so I avoid people who show the first sign that they are disordered.

Hope this helped.

I just want to say a HUGE THANK YOU to all of you! Donna, thanks to you and all the others (Panther, I can SO RELATE to so much you’ve shared). I am finding strength and understanding by reading this site and I believe it’s helping me heal — as I recover from the devastating realization that I was married to a S’Path. Donna, you’re so right when you say that it’s not just my heart (and my trust and my finances and my dignity and sense of self) that’s been broken, but also my view of the world has been SHATTERED. I feel like I’ll never really be able to trust a man ever again. Of course, I know, this too shall pass. What I can’t get over is that he had a whole web of family members involved in deceiving and conning me into thinking he was OK — and not just OK… but a wonderful, godly man. What a joke! My soon to be ex is a manipulative control freak, a predator, an economic and emotional parasite, a pathological liar, a thief and a potential murderer. I found his notes expressing something like…. “if I could kill you with my mind, you’d be dead.” Wow!!! Yes, I agree with whoever on here said that this type of evil is DEMONIC. It is, tragically and sadly, they are following the devil, the father of all lies and they are DANGEROUS! Thank you for your support!



Thank you for your beautiful post to mislead. I am inspired. My story could be yours. Hugs.


To those who feel that they won’t find love again…or be able to trust someone again……

You WILL. Only, now that your neurons are rerouted in your brain, (once u heal..) you won’t be attracted to “trouble” again.

As soon as I meet someone, man or woman, I am SO aware of the red flags, and I now listen to my gut feelings. NO ONE could ever fool me again! So, count your blessings that you are now wiser!

Secondly, you are STRONGER now, coming through this. You are NOT desperate for a r/s, and you’ve learned to depend on one person…YOU!

You will NEVER settle again. Had I been emotionally stronger, as I am today, I would not have jumped so fast into the r/s with him, and, when it didn’t “feel” right at times..I would have listened to my intuition!

So, we are NOT damaged. We are HEALED. We are stronger and wiser and have learned to depend on ourselves.

And, yes, there IS evil rampant in the world today! But, now that we are smarter, we can avoid it.

I feel better and stronger and more peaceful today than I ever felt in my life. I repel evil and I only surround myself with people who are not disordered.

This is what the experience did for me. I was married to a diagnosed sociopath for 10 yrs….and didn’t heal. I jumped into a r/s with another one. We repeat our ‘mistakes’ until we “get it”.

Thats what life is all about.

Stay strong with no regrets. You cannot change who u were THEN, you can only be who u are now and move forward.

Set new goals for YOURSELF and step by step…do it.
And, F&ck the disordered!!! lol

you people are the only ones that understand what Im going through, you know my story, its here to read, I find it so hard not only did I truely love him, let him come back and beleved his lies and thought he would come back, I made love with him again, it was tarriffic, we meet over and over again, in the end, I let the women he ran to for money, know what he was up to as I felt so used. Its not just greaving, its not just betral ( remember we were going to get married) he ran to his money tree to keep him with his main love the pokies. I feel like a piece of virgina meat, that he just rang and he had his own way, never must have loved me. Now I cannot let any man touch me, dont even think of or talk of sex with me. How can I ever trust I knew him for 6 years, and I ended up just being a piece of trash. She beleved his lies, and were with each other again the same night. He then rang me, and threatened to hurt me, if I would prove the truth to her. My mother says, he thought I was nagging, trying to control him, really you wanted to help him with his addiction, he is not ready till he reaches rock bottom, he wants to do what he wants to do, not even thinking about poeples feelings. This woman he has run to is feeding his addiction, and kama has it, she has him by the balls, he will never be able to leave her, she is every thing he didnt want in a woman, but is his money tree. He will never be happy. She neather, Trouble is I have managed to get out, but are left with all these feelings.

You need to get it together and stay away from him, always. Read your own post again. He is a liar and you know it. In fact, you participated in his lies for six years before you wised up and told the money tree.
The money tree is also a victim here by the way. But since she isn’t here, she will remain a mystery.
Before my sociopath revealed himself to me, I believed his crazy stories and even participated in his lies too. We were together for about two months before he left his wife. Once they were split, he wanted to continue our lies to his kids, to his parents, grandparents, sister, my family. I wasn’t having it. He cheated on me too. And then he cheated on the one he cheated on me with. See the pattern here?
Your mother is nuts for helping you feel like you caused this. She should have been tearing you away frontons guy, instead she says you caused it. Wow.
He is a monster.

You also should realize that you show you are still in the web of his lies when you write that his ex is not the kind of woman he wants to be with – he told you that. He painted the picture of her on your mind. Every bit of information you have about her comes from him. He lies constantly. Right now he’s probably lieing to someone about something – the guy at Starbucks or someone at work.
Since the money tree was in his life before you, I would guess the two of you are a lot alike. A good hunter knows his prey.
All the women I knew of in my ex’s lives were born around the same time. Yes, we share birthdays – star signs. And the one before me and the three after me are all blonde. I am also blonde. These people are predators.

Good article Donna! I read it yesterday and despite reading it I was “lured” into a discussion about the spath by an old friend. Hmmm and I really do try not to speak about him anymore to anyone. My friends reaction was disturbing and kept me up most of the night thinking about his response. My friend is a smart direct kind of guy so I do put some stock into what he says. In a nutshell he said “I’ve heard you complaining about this guy for over a year it’s time to get over it and move on with your life. He is gone and now he exists only in your head” Well this kind of stunned me. I tried to explain about jr. And that he would not just go away. He will without much thought or effort continue to screw with me through the legal system, because he can. He will continue until he is faced with consequences or realizes it won’t work anymore. His response was he will eventually go away and lose interest. He doesn’t care and you are concerned and upset about things that are just in your head. Well I thought about my friends response long and hard and had to really ask myself… Is this in my head? Is he really gone? Can I let go and move forward without being afraid? I can’t answer those questions… I dont know. Is he really still a threat? I’m left at a loss feeling crazy all over again. Im still not working with a full deck however despite it all I am proud of how far I’ve come. There is still allot of work left to rebuilding my life… But now I am feeling crazy and paranoid all over again…questioning is this real? Wtf!

I understand the reason for no contact! But why is it so HARD???? This person prey on women thru personal ads. I want the WORLD TO KNOW!!! And I want to try to stop them from doing it to someone else! I also want to make their life HELL!
What is wrong with me????


coping – #1 your friend does not understand pyschopathy nor the affect of being involved with one of them.

#2 i think it is good to answer these questions now that they have been asked, IF they are valid. so, you need to figure out if they are. first consider the source: Does he understand s/p/n (no). Has he had this experience (no). Why is HE frustrated with your rate of healing? What are his motives for pushing you? Is he you? Is he living your life? Is his idea of your healing more important than what you know about this healing arc?

#3 evaluate your physical, legal and emotional safety. Where it was before, where it is now, and where you would like it to be. If there is variation between where it is now and where you want it to be, then you have evidence that you may not be as safe as he things you are/ or should feel.

#4 ‘only in your head’ – is meant to denigrate your experience. ‘In your head’ matters. it matters to all of us. it’s the thing we are left to work with after all else is said and done.

#5 don’t go with stuff that makes you feel more paranoid and crazy – that’s usually the wrong direction.

#6 not so sure he’s a very good friend.

#7 come back to yourself, and be where you are in your healing.

xo one joy


Destinbyf8 – most of us feel this way when we realize what has happened to us. You are talking about a normal and natural response to sociopaths. Please do some reading and writing here and read some of the books shown on this site – it will make sense in time and you will understand and heal. Take care.

I would write more, but i have to go to work. Others will respond. hang in there.

Thank god for you, you all, we are not alone. I think it is best, just to cry it all out, till we cannot cry anymore. Hopefully, karma will work out there futures for them, and we can stand tall, we all know we did or best, treated them so well, and they are just monsters, like you said. cruel monsters. love to you all. thanks for being here.

blondblueeyes wrote,

“in the end, I let the women he ran to for money, know what he was up to as I felt so used [] he ran to his money tree to keep him with his main love the pokies [] My mother says, he thought I was nagging, trying to control him, really you wanted to help him with his addiction [ ] This woman he has run to is feeding his addiction, [ ] he will never be able to leave her, she is every thing he didn’t want in a woman, but is his money tree. He will never be happy”

OneBeliever is correct with, “The money tree is also a victim here by the way [] We were together for about two months before he left his wife. Once they were split, he wanted to continue our lies to his kids, to his parents, grandparents, sister, my family. I wasn’t having it. He cheated on me too. And then he cheated on the one he cheated on me with. See the pattern here”

It IS a PATTERN..they ALL do it. Mine was the SAME WAY..had his sisters and mother believing his lies too, if not COVERING for him. Mine also ran to a “money tree” .. what was uglier was that he didn’t leave me UNTIL he’d begun his affair with her..ONE YEAR BEFORE, meanwhile kept up with the I LOVE YOUs. Nervier of him was to try to surreptitiously get my unknowing “permission” to date her. He asked me, WHILE IN BED WITH ME, “do you think she’s the type of person who complains too much?”..as if I was supposed to “deem” whether she was date-worthy or not! The gall!

Well..guess what? If he thought YOU were nagging, just wait until the (probably greedy “Money Tree” starts nagging him, because if she was willing to take him off your hands (desperate, she sounds like), then she, too, might be a spath, and might CRACK THE WHIP ON HIM even harder than he thought you did (nag? Ha ha..he hasn’t even BEGUN to see HER nagging yet!) Think about it”

And did Ms. Money Tree actually listen to you? The next woman after me didn’t..wouldn’t, and I WAS NOT THE ONLY ONE TO WARN HER. She had more greed in her than I could ever imagine any woman having. I noticed the things in her home, too..one room FULL of Barbie dolls in boxes..seemed much like a hoarder, to me. And if he thought MY home had kitch..ha ha..hers was FULL of it. Wait until she discovers he knows not on what side of the political fence to sit..that he was listening to the DR. LAURA show when living with me..as if he wanted to suddenly see that after almost a decade living with me, that he was “suddenly” living in sin. Ha ha. And Ms. Money tree once invited us to her party celebrating Bill Clinton’s inauguration, so it would seem like she’s a died-in-the-wool democrat, but that political persuasion doesn’t “square” with listening to the Dr. Laura show, does it?

take care,


Thank you Donna and One joy-
Donna- yes no emotional reaction is what I ultimately am working on. It will take time, patience and work. Since we have nc emotional reactions are something he does not see. He no longer can derive pleasure from my pain.

One joy- I will carefully think about your points as I feel they are valid.”in my head does matter” it’s the only head I have. Got to keep it as clear as possible.

As ox and others like to refer to this process as peeling the layers of an onion all I can say is I hope this will ultimately be worth the pain and I will come out a better/stronger person because of it. Regarless I don’t have much of a choice in the matter….

IDE rather be an apple. Simple, hard in the outside, sweet and soft on the inside. No such luck… Onion it is! 🙂

Thank you LF!!

coping wrote, “IDE rather be an apple. Simple, hard in the outside, sweet and soft on the inside” …

I’ve become like a SABRA..a prickly pear..prickly on he outside, sweet on the inside. My time on a kibbutz in my youth, that taught me a lot. Now I just have to recall those times..get that “core” back again..I just about have. Remember when you were STRONGER..gather THAT strength again. Those early times for me also help me through these awful economic times we all have. Those times helped me cope with “less” financially, when EVERYONE in that environment had “less” .. sort of like the strength that Peace Corps workers get..they NEVER forget their experience and what made them strong..built them.


Hi Donna, I have been visiting your site for 2 plus years now, and would like to thank you and your readers for all your advice. Before I became involved with my S-path, I was a normal guy with a normal way of thinking about relationships. Since then, my whole world has turned upside down. Many of the values and beliefs I had were totally destroyed by her. Every evil thing she did became forgivable. She has all the classic moral traits of an S-path and not only that, she was as beautiful as they come, and very sexual. The kinda girl every guy wants. I was involved with my S-Path for 6 years. I was forewarned about her, but pursued her anyway, thinking that I could control the situatiuon. How very wrong I was!!! Even after we broke up she still tried to control me by having sex with me once a week, while going after a sugar Daddy all the while. It took me a year to be able not to have any more contact with her. That was a year ago. But, I did stay in touch with her kids up until recently because they needed my help and friendship, which again was a lie because they proved to be all users. Her sons knew I was I in love (lust) with her and used it for their gain by telling me she wants me back so to get them what she won’t. It really does run in families. So it’s been 2 months of no contact whatsoever, and and I am finally starting to believe there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Every time I read your blog, I see myself in those very lines and try to remember “” IT WASN’T ME ” I am not crazy.. Remember everyone NO CONTACT thanks for letting me vent. Gary

..and if he wasn’t listening to Dr. Laura he was listening to Rush Limbaugh. Oh God..GAG ME WITH A LADLE! Nothing like a FAKE BIBLE THUMPER SPATH to make one wretch. Aren’t those the ones most often spathing folks, these days..the RELIGIOUS PRETENDERS, or those with the WORST whore-madonna complexes..the WORSE double-standards on our green planet?


An ex friend of ex spath has been contacting me. Now he wants to date and now he wants to tell me all the bad things spath did throughout the situation. The women the lies and how he even stated his goal was to ruin me from the beginning. Friend here never said anything he even helped confirm the lies how dare he come forth with info now that he wants to date me. it makes me sick. To hear him say he didn’t treat his ex this way he was so good to her. How was he better to her than with me. When we first split he was saying that he did wrong but he loved me. I know it was never love. But now he says that he didn’t love me and it was all a game. What is friends motive?

his motive is to finish you off.
He is a spath and looking for prey. Since you have proven to be gullible before, he is assuming he can play you again.

Recovering- I’m with skylar. Friend is a jerk and just as toxic. Furthermore contact with friend will only create a link between you and ex. Stay clear of friend. Its so hard to get rid of them. They keep popping up like wild mushrooms.

I’m new here and have read a lot of blogs and posts in the past few weeks.

I have a problem which I find really hard to overcome in recovering. It is this: I have been married to and have children with my ex (psychopath/narcissist – not sure exactly what fits his descriptionn but he sure fits a lot of the descriptiions I have read here), so I cannot go “no contact” with him, as much as my whole body urges me to do so, I have to be in contact because of our children. In fact I would ignore every text, email etc that is sent to me and run a mile.

He is highly manipulative. He has not engaged in criminal activity but would be more of a “wheeler dealer” and got into high positions in companies and made a lot of money…. etc. He knows exactly where to draw the line, so I could not say he stalks me or harasses me, not even in his texts or emails which are very subtle. He is very manipulative.

The point being I do not have evidence to prove him “bad”, and therefore he has to see his children. No court on the land will stop this. He is using the children as a means to keep contact with me. If anything he could make me look like the crazy one. I have read posts here about people blocking their ears and not being able to listen anymore to their partners. Well I have felt and been in a similar situation. In fact I felt he drove me to the brink of insanity.

So my question is: how to you deal with your ex when you have to have contact with them because you have children together? I really feel at the end of my tether. I definitely agree that most people dont get it and am coming here to seek advice.
Is there anyone in this position and can they please help me?
BTW we are not yet officially divorced and so there are no court orders etc in place yet. That is something I am working on.

Be very careful of this friend. No one in their right mind would want to sit down and break it down to a spath’s victim. Does’t sound like a friend to either you or his spath friend. He or she is a double crosser already. How can you trust?

For some odd reason I thought the blonde’s money tree was with the guy first. However, my point is you can NEVER believe anything he says about any of the other women in his life whether you are part of his betrayal or the betrayed. My spath became a trusted colleague and then a trusted friend who shared that he and his wife enjoyed an
open-marriage before my one weak moment with him, believing his crazy stories and actually feeling sorry for him – became almost three years of hell. He also told me his wife then ex-wife was a lesbian and did couples all the time behind his back when they had agreed to full disclosure before they went on any sexual adventures without the other.
Sounds crazy now, right? Sounds insane to me now too. You have no idea how totally believable this all sounded coming from him.
Now I know. He is a professional liar. Really. He practices lieing like a professional athlete would practice throwing a ball. He trains. He lies to everyone he can to test the water. There is no one that I know of who he didn’t lie to while we were together. No one.
He told the next blond the same thing about me- lesbian, cheated – only instead of depression like the ex-wife, my story was enhanced so it was coupled with alcoholism and lies about the way I treated his children. Plus he said I was a Republican Tea Partier, which is nuts.
He was the first and only taken man I’d ever been with after 38 years of being highly ethical and totally against that sort of thing.
He took that from me too. My integrity, the most important of all the things I earned in my life.
Now I promise to always have another woman’s back even if I don’t know her. Sticking true to myself on that personal philosophy would have worked out a lot better for me. The one time I believed the lies, the one time and I pay for it daily. I have a hard time forgiving myself sometimes for this. I always knew better. I’ve been around thousands of these people. Before him, I could always spot them and cut them off before any damage was done. My what happens here, stays here hometown slogan attracts them like roaches love beer.


Dear Pathtofreedom,

Welcome to LF, sorry you need to be here, though.

There are several parents here who must Co-Parent with a psychopath and yes, they do use the kids as a weapon to keep in contact and to club you over the head with.

There is a web site called FAMILY WIZARD (there is ann article here about it) in which the parents communicate about parenting issues over this, which can be court ordered as the ONLY means of communication and it is time/date stamped etc.

IN the meantime, I would communicate with him ONLY by e mail, or text message, and don’t answer your phone, make him leave a voice mail and keep COPIES OF ALL INTERACTIONS…so if he calls, TEXT or E MAIL him back your answer.

If your kids are not old enough to meet him outside your door (with it closed) then have a friend or family member take the kids to meet him, so that you do not have to see him or talk to him. That is about as close to NC as you are going to get.

He may start to use your kids to deliver messages (if they are old enough) “Tell Mommy I said she is acting badly”–get a small digital recorder to keep in your pocket to record these conversations as well.

Any communication about the divorce should be via your attorney, never directly to him.

Keep your kids out of it as much as possible, don’t let them know any of the details of the settlement or divorce. Kids will come home with lines like “my daddy paid for this house but he can’t live here because of you.”

He may also try to use the visitation and/or custody of the children as a weapon against you. Keep your cool, because if he can keep you “upset” or “in the spin cycle” all the time you will not think as well. Good luck and God bless.

Start reading here, read every article in the archives, start with the “what is a psychopath” and then read all the ones in each category (save all the old comments for after you’ve read all the archived articles) Keep your chin up, you are not alone!

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