Last week I posted two articles related to the Vienna Presbyterian Church in Vienna, Virginia. Between 2001 and 2005, as many as a dozen teenage girls may have suffered sexual, emotional and spiritual abuse from a church youth director. This year, the youth director was long gone, but church leaders felt that the wounds had not be properly addressed and healed. So a few months ago, the pastor and church issued a public apology.
Lawyers for the church’s insurance company warned the church not to accept responsibility for the failings of the youth director. Doing so, the insurance company said, would jeopardize the church’s coverage in case a lawsuit was filed.
The Vienna Presbyterian Church ignored the demands of its insurance company. On March 27, Pastor Peter James preached a sermon that acknowledged the church’s failings.
“Let me speak for a moment to our survivors,” he said. “We, as church leaders, were part of the harm in failing to extend the compassion and mercy that you needed. Some of you felt uncared for, neglected and even blamed in this church. I am truly sorry ”¦ I regret the harm this neglect has caused you.”
Guess what—so far, none of the young women has filed a lawsuit.
Why not? The case would be a slam-dunk. The youth director pleaded guilty to contributing to the delinquency of a minor. The church accepted responsibility. Several of the now young women have trouble in relationships, because they are still seeking the fantasy that the youth director promised. If they filed suit, they’d win.
My guess is that the women don’t want money. They want to be heard. They want to be validated. And they want to be healed.
Invisible damage
The problem with sociopathic entanglements is that so much of the damage is invisible. Even in cases where we lose money, jobs, homes, and are subject to physical violence, the big wounds are not readily apparent. Before all those obvious injuries occurred, the sociopaths softened us up with emotional manipulation, psychological control and spiritual abuse. These internal wounds not only eat at us, but they make it difficult for us to respond to, and recover from, the obvious physical damage.
After the sociopath, we need to purge our emotional and mental pain. We need internal stability. But when we reach out for help on this level, many of the people around us simply don’t get it.
They don’t understand why we need to talk so much about what happened. They don’t understand how, when we suspected that we were being used, we allowed it to continue. They don’t understand why we are still confused in our thoughts and emotions about the sociopath.
Get over it, they tell us.
These are the people, of course, who are lucky enough to have avoided a direct assault from a sociopath in their own lives. We often understand why they don’t really understand what happened—after all, we were once as clueless as they are. Still, their ignorance of the depth of our pain seems to increase our pain. We feel like we are not being heard, and our suffering is being invalidated.
Debriefing
Karin Huffer, in her book, the Legal Abuse Syndrome, describes this situation in detail in her chapter on “Debriefing.”
Debriefing, she says, is the first step in recovery. In the debriefing process, we tell someone exactly what happened to us, in all the painful detail. Unfortunately, it’s hard to find what Huffer describes as “quality listeners.” These are people who have the ability to hear what we have to say, overriding their own protective filters. She writes:
Protective filters are always at work. If an individual begins to share with another and the data threatens the listener’s feelings of safety, they may try to divert the data or simply not hear it at all ”¦
The function of this protective filter is to maintain the equilibrium of the listener. Victims’ stories shake the foundations that we lean upon in order to feel safe. When it is impossible for friends or family to hear, due to their protective psychological filters shielding them from vicarious pain, the victim feels rejected and alone.
Huffer goes on to describe a formal debriefing process. It’s best done with a quality listener or support group, but an individual can do it alone if necessary.
Support at Lovefraud
I believe that we have many, many quality listeners on Lovefraud. I am always amazed at the thoughtful, comforting and patient comments posted in response to readers who are spilling their traumatized guts.
The reason Lovefraud readers can do this, of course, is because we’ve all been there. We know what it’s like to be deceived, betrayed and assaulted. We know what it’s like to sit amidst the wreckage of what was once our lives. We’re all on the path to recovery, and those of us who are further along help those of us who are just beginning.
Healing, in the end, is an individual journey. To fully recover, we must consciously excavate and examine our pain, and find a way to let it go. But the process is helped immensely when we are heard and validated. I am so glad that Lovefraud offers this to so many people.
Bella…
Go to sandrabrown@saferelationships.com. I was very close to going to one of her “retreats” in Florida. In fact, if you have insurance, it covers it! I couldn’t leave my children alone or I would have gone for a week. I didn’t have insurance at the time either. I highly recommend going when you feel so much despair. I was lucky to seek support at Catholic Charities where I found a wonderful counselor and a group to attend. Along with this site…for validation, love and encouragement, I was able to get through the despair phase and move on. It was so difficult at the time…but I kept saying “this too shall pass”. I developed an attitude of gratitude and I did a LOT of work on myself…to heal my inner child. I knew I had to overcome the hurt and betrayal from way back, in order to live the rest of my life in peace. I am going to be 54 (people think I am 38, surprisingly so, with all of the stress I’ve had being a single mom of 3!) and I want the last phase of my life to be peaceful…not necessarily “happy” all of the time…(read the book, “The Happiness Trap” to put that into perspective)…but just peaceful. I was like you…didn’t want to die…but I wanted to rip my brain out of my head and get a new one! So, it took me to meet a “conrolling selfish man” ..not necessarily a sociopath, to trigger old hurts. I broke down. I hated myself for being so weak and insecure to allow him to use and abuse me. I was really in despair at the time …two years ago.
I made up my mind that my life wasn’t over. The abuse was over. I was DONE with feeling unworthy and desparate and not standing up for MY rights with people. So, I began to work on the subconscious thoughts ..the old “tape” from childhood in my brain….and decided to REBUILD who I am …so that I can live peacefully for the rest of my life. I HAD to…for my 3 girls! They are so full of life..and so happy and goal oriented…and I couldn’t let them down. I brought them into the world and I needed to get “healthy” so that I could continue to take care of them. I’m all they have. Their sociopath father ( a TRUE sociopath) totally abandoned them.
So, I worked on myself…..
I learned SO much. I spent a LOT of time alone, reading and even got rid of a lot of people in my life who were just bringing me down.
When I was ready, I ventured back out into the world. I joined a gym to get into shape. It became ALL ABOUT ME. I made it my mission to find MYSELF for once and for all.
I now have people in my life who truly care about me…healthy people. NO MORE SELFISH USERS! I was alone a lot. But, I conquered lonliness. I am not working…but I kept busy doing things I enjoyed…the gym..the thrift store in the next town…out with my true friends…hung out with my girls…
I don’t have a good man in my life…a companion…at this time. But, I have faith that when the time is right…I WILL meet someone. But, first I need to take care of ME.
I believe that, as long as you have good physical health…life is never over. You just have to get your emotions in check. Not easy…lots of work…lots of nurturing yourself and taking caring of yourself. But, first you have to do the work….and I needed a professional to get me on track.
Anyway, thats my story. The people on here are great support and the validation I needed was right here. I realized what I was dealing with in partners I met…I was a socio-magnet…perfect prey….sweet, kind, trusting and good hearted. Even though those qualities are admirable…deep down I needed to learn to love and respect MYSELF…because in this world we live in….we need to be wise and emotionally strong to repel the evil and not allow anyone to use and abuse us….to survive! This was my weakness….
I believe we are here to learn to survive and to solve problems and to excel. I had to go back to learning to survive…something I didn’t learn in my childhood.
Don’t give up on life. There’s too much good and happiness and love to experience. And, this isn’t a dress rehearsal. We only have one life. I decided that the good there is ..is worth it. You will feel this way too, in time. Just have to decide to do it.
Hope I helped.
Katydid…. your post to hold this Pastor responsible. I think and think of how…but without one person to stand beside me as an advocate to explain to these pastors who think that if they get their credentials online that they are above psychologists, and all others who get the training and understanding into abuse. These Pastors i don’t think have EVER heard of Trauma bonds….. and just ask you “why did you stay? Why did you keep going back, it couldn’t have been that bad” “why did you respond this way instead of that way?”and then tell me my responses are SIN, and make their judgements….and tell others to outcast you as the abuser rather than the abused. That I must be thrown out until I repent. One example: My first husband I had to go before a board to determine his fate after I brought up the abuse, porn, being abandoned every weekend through him picking a fight and then he would “disappear” for 2-3 days with no contact and then come home and tell me how sorry he was and how he loved me and God, it took 28 years fo rme to bring this out and stop protecting him! I had to tell about how porn and other perverted things had affected me,….. this and so much more to these Pastors with no woman beside me as I had to talk about mansturbation etc….and they looked at me and one of them leaned forward and said ” That is not equal to adultery” and “Just WHY did you seperate from your husband” as though I had done wrong!!! When I was the one to try to hold it all together when I did not know what I was dealing with all those years!!! Now, there are other Pastors who have told my children that before they ever talk to me again….MY CHILDREN….. I need to go before them with one of these Pastors, and I just can’t. I am in no place to EDUCATE these over-zealous Pastors…… who are ABOVE ALL with their paper credentials in their hands,to try to get my daughters back. I know what I did and why was out PTSD so just trying to think of “how can i get these Pastors to understand” and hold this woman Pastor accountable puts me on the couch unable to shower or go on with my day. I have thought for months “who can I go to to understand and go with me to tell those above her, as it is the only way to get my kids back” but I come up empty- handed. I pray for ONE PERSON to stand with me through this who “get’s it” but everyday I am alone…. If I killed someone I would have an advocate- court appointed, but because I wanted to live a godly life and ended up abused and trauma-bonded, now I am alone.
Believe it or not I contacted the place you mentioned above….to get help months ago. They are in NC. They told me I had PTSD and they could not take me. You turn to the ones who are out there posting all there helps for people who have been traumatized by this, and they turn you away too. I WANTED to go to a retreat…… I am not over the top, I just completed their questionaire, and they said because of intrusive thoughts and ptsd symptoms I cannot go to a retreat??? So I have attempted to heal with time, books and prayer. Everyone i have reached out to has slammed a door in my face, and made me feel I am too far gone to help. I haven’t done anything…only explained the symptoms of PTSD,not suicidal….not out of control. Working, raising a son, starting a business but wanting help for the inside of what was explained above…… So, if anyone knows of a counselor….i really need one. Thanks
Bella…I’m surprised because thats what Sandra’s retreat deals with….PTSD!
I wanted to go to one of these places. I was thinking or hoping it could get me past the constant thoughts in my head and addiction to this spath.
BellaAngel,
Sorry it didn’t work out how to stop the pastor abuse. I have times when I am VERY strong and during those times I have found solutions. Maybe when you are better, the same will be true for you.
I am going through a hard time now, facing the fact that my daughter has gone to the dark side. She was my life. So I am not feeling strong right now. But at least I know what it feels like and know I will work through this process.
Personally Sandra Brown did not work for me. She writes about dangerous men, but she doesn’t quite get it. She is also often linked with Sam Vaknin, an admitted socipath, which is a red flag. He gets his jollies the same way standard spaths do, by appearing to be helpful (spath? helpful?) but he is just feeding his spathy and manipulating to do so. In my opinion, Sandra Brown is an opportunist who found a money maker in the spath biz.
What I hate most in the aftermath of escaping my spath is the blame. It’s ALMOST as bad as HIS blame. So many people blame me, that I was weak, that I was gullible, that I am a loser b/c I complain about and was rendered so incapable of self care after my life with my husband. I could not hold a job b/c just as in the post above, I could be out and like a ton of bricks, debilitating emotion would dump on me and I’d make an escape as quick as possible b/c I was unable to stop my body from responding. For a long time, I tried to do the mind over body control until my body started reacting BEFORE my mind perceived the fallout. Then to be condemned as a drama queen b/c I went for help and if I’d just stop trying to get attention, it would stop. Well, NOT TRUE. I hid. No one knew. A drama queen without an audience? I was so embarassed and humiliated. I HATED what I’d become, incapable, incompetent, the loser he said I was. I was NOT trying to get attention or having a pity party. Yes, I felt bad but I was trying to find a solution and could not do so on my own so I have been on a mission to find a REAL solution.
All this to say, I am glad and sad to read the posts above b/c THEY are the real disclosures of reality that I have lived with. These posts speak to the real fallout I have struggled with. Solutions for one may not work for another, just as I don’t care for Sandra Brown b/c I think she exploits the issue as a profit center and she doesn’t go deep enough into the sociopath aspect, for others she is the perfect ticket.
I have become a caricature of the self help queens. Been through 12 step program for adult children of narcissistic abusers, and have enough self help books to fill a book case. Some were very good, “Why Does He Do That, Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men” by Lundy Bancroft was good but didn’t tell me how to heal myself.
If I hadn’t received some (NOT even near half) of marriage settlement, I would be homeless. I did buy this house, very cheap but is at least a roof over my head. I had a little left for groceries and utilities but am almost out of money. So I am even more worried, how to work without falling apart. Putting my mind to it works a little bit, until my body does it without my mind in control.
Thank you for your posts. At least I finally don’t feel I am alone. I share bits and pieces of others peoples experience as anyone with spaths share common features but I rarely read with such clarity about others having this same problem, finally getting through the day but still not finding a reason to live. ANd this final bout with my daughter takes me back to feeling all that crap that I went through when I left my husband, and it took me YEARS to get to the point of being able to work a volunteer job that was only 2 hrs a week.
Sorry for the rambling. I just felt someone finally understood. Hope we can help each other.
Katy, having a moment where she doesn’t have to pretend.
My unemployment appeal hearing is scheduled for Tuesday morning at 9 am and I am so afraid. I know the spaths are gonna lie-even under oath so they can win. Now I gotta go take a nap so I can work all night tonite. I hope I can manage to sleep.
I’m surprised to hear that Sandra’s retreat isn’t helpful. From her website, I t hought it would be so helpful! Wow!
tobe,
About Sandra. Personally, I think her books are right on. I also read her articles. There are several people in this field, no matter their motivations (whose to say what hers are? Or anyone else for that matter, except those that spell it out LOL), I found Women WHo Love Psychopaths to be a brilliant piece of work in dissecting spaths. That doesn’t mean I agree with it in its entirety, as its rare that I do anything, but I think she is right on. About the retreats. they have several different retreats. If your symptoms of PTSD are TOO severe, no they will not take you and recommend seeking treatment somewhere close to you. Secondly, there are DIFFERENT kinds of focus for each retreat. not every single one of them is directly for aftermath symptoms. Some retreats are for those further along in the process. If you had PTSD you DEFINTELY would not qualify for one of those retreats. One of the reasons I really liked Sandra’s book is because it was spelled out in plain english the motive of spaths and goes into detail about it. This has also been a subject of discussion here. I believe that to be true and it really helped me in turning around the cog/dis I was dealing with. I also read Sam V’s book. I don’t CARE that he’s a spath! The information in the book is the first ever I read that thoroughly about narcissism, let alone personality disorders. He makes no bones about the reality that he exploits his readers with what he knows to make money. Despite all of that, the information is accurate and who better than a spath to talk about being a spath. If it wasn’t accurate, I would not have bothered.
Then there is this site, Donna’s work, and many others in the field who are making HUGE contributions to understanding PD’s in general. It’s a big job and in my opinion, the more the merrier in getting the word out. Not one is better than another necessarily, but each coming from a unique perspective bringing their knowledge and experiences to the table. I think on the central point of PD’s its pretty much agreeable across the board insofar as what they do, are and their motives.
Another writer/therapist in the field that I really like is Martha Stout and I’ve read her book over and over.
There are so many with invaluable contributions
LL
Katy:
Thanks for the advice about Sandra’s place. I looked at the website and the retreat info and wondered if it was all about the profit so thank you for that.
After reading your post, I have to get something off my chest. What I went through with the X spath and the OW he was triangulating me with was very emotionally damaging to me. Damaging to the point where I feel I now have a mild case of PTSD. The thought of even going back into an office environment makes me have all kind of emotional reactions. I don’t talk about any of it to anyone anymore because to everyone else, it just seems ridiculous and why would I even still care about it and why did I even get involved with him in the first place…the attacks go on and on so I have just shut up.
I guess what I need to say is after reading everyone’s stories on here, I feel bad for even feeling bad! You all have been through so much…attempted murders, poisonings, spath children, spath men, beatings, chokings, extreme verbal abuse…the list goes on and on. I didn’t experience any of that. I only experienced two people making a total fool of me and using me for each others follies. Extremely manipulative liars who would lie to my face. I did lose my job because of it and that is huge. It was my choice to leave, but nonetheless. I am now employed, but only at a job that is 1-2 days per week and that is my choice. It is because I truly feel like I would not be able to handle a 40 hour work week again in an office environment and that is so upsetting and sad to me. I am a great employee, good at what I do and very loyal and now I feel like I have been ruined. But even though I didn’t go through everything you all did, I am still damaged. And I just can’t forget about it. That is where I am now. Never before in my life was I not able to move on from a “situation.” Or move on from a broken relationship with a man. But this was different. This was a relationship with a man who I truly believe doesn’t have a soul and a friendship with a woman who is the most manipulating, controlling liar I have ever met in my life. So even though I haven’t been through a lot, it was enough to damage me for a very long time. Does that make me weak? What DOES it say about me? I have always seen myself as a strong woman, independent. I never needed anyone to take care of me. I still don’t, but I get scared sometimes now. I feel they ruined me and of course they could care less. They are going on with their own little lives and like I said before, they could even still be seeing each other for all I know. They are both married. I was the only single one in the equation.
Sorry for rambling, but I guess I need to feel validated that what I am feeling is OK…that it is real…that I am damaged and it’s OK. It doesn’t take a beating or an attempted murder to do damage I guess. Or sometimes I think…was I already damaged??? 🙁
Just my humble opinion, I am not impressed with Sandra Brown, and have done some background investigation on her that does not improve my impression. I can’t and won’t say any more, but except for the book that she CO-authored with Dr. Leedom, then on her own put out a “revised 2nd edition” WITHOUT Dr. Leedom There isn’t anything that she has written that I am impressed with either.
There are lots of places out there that you can find on the internet that are classified “retreats” or “life coaches” and are people who do not have licenses….and BTW Sandra Brown does not have, as far as I can find, a license for social work or as a counselor unless she has obtained it recently. She puts the letters M. A. after her name but I am not sure what degree or from where her degree is from, but a DEGREE in psychology or sociology does not give you a LICENSE to be a counselor. So a lot of people who do not have a license style themselves “life coaches” and charge fees for their advice.
The quack that killed the people in the sweat lodge that was charging $10,000 for a “retreat” is one of those quacks…as far as I know his CRIMINAL trial is still going on.
It behooves us all to be careful which person or “professional” we go to for services of any kind. There is an old joke about “what do you call the physician that finished LAST in his medical school class?”—DOCTOR is the answer.
While legally any licensed physician CAN legally do brain surgery, it isn’t a good idea for most physicians to cut into your head….so you want to make sure that the person who is “operating” on you knows what they are doing whether they have a license to do that or not.
Bella, I suggest that you call your local domestic violence shelter or hot line number and get into a group counseling session there, I am sure they have them.
Another option is to get into an Al-anon group, or a group for enablers, I think from what I have read of your story that like many of us (me included) you tend to be or have been an enabler, taking on the duties and responsibilities for others, and leaving yourself dead last in your care giving, so I think such a group might be very helpful for you.
I can’t guarentee that it will be pain free, because therapy of any kind if PAINFUL in looking at ourselves and how we have allowed the abusers to keep on….working tyhrough the TRAUMA BONDS ( I also suggest you get “The Betrayal Bond” and read it I think it may give you some insight into why you stayed for so long with the abusive husband)
As for getting your adult children “back into your life”—that may or may not happen, but whatever happens with that situation, you can STILL HAVE A HAPPY, healthy and sane life. (((hugs))))