Last week I posted two articles related to the Vienna Presbyterian Church in Vienna, Virginia. Between 2001 and 2005, as many as a dozen teenage girls may have suffered sexual, emotional and spiritual abuse from a church youth director. This year, the youth director was long gone, but church leaders felt that the wounds had not be properly addressed and healed. So a few months ago, the pastor and church issued a public apology.
Lawyers for the church’s insurance company warned the church not to accept responsibility for the failings of the youth director. Doing so, the insurance company said, would jeopardize the church’s coverage in case a lawsuit was filed.
The Vienna Presbyterian Church ignored the demands of its insurance company. On March 27, Pastor Peter James preached a sermon that acknowledged the church’s failings.
“Let me speak for a moment to our survivors,” he said. “We, as church leaders, were part of the harm in failing to extend the compassion and mercy that you needed. Some of you felt uncared for, neglected and even blamed in this church. I am truly sorry ”¦ I regret the harm this neglect has caused you.”
Guess what—so far, none of the young women has filed a lawsuit.
Why not? The case would be a slam-dunk. The youth director pleaded guilty to contributing to the delinquency of a minor. The church accepted responsibility. Several of the now young women have trouble in relationships, because they are still seeking the fantasy that the youth director promised. If they filed suit, they’d win.
My guess is that the women don’t want money. They want to be heard. They want to be validated. And they want to be healed.
Invisible damage
The problem with sociopathic entanglements is that so much of the damage is invisible. Even in cases where we lose money, jobs, homes, and are subject to physical violence, the big wounds are not readily apparent. Before all those obvious injuries occurred, the sociopaths softened us up with emotional manipulation, psychological control and spiritual abuse. These internal wounds not only eat at us, but they make it difficult for us to respond to, and recover from, the obvious physical damage.
After the sociopath, we need to purge our emotional and mental pain. We need internal stability. But when we reach out for help on this level, many of the people around us simply don’t get it.
They don’t understand why we need to talk so much about what happened. They don’t understand how, when we suspected that we were being used, we allowed it to continue. They don’t understand why we are still confused in our thoughts and emotions about the sociopath.
Get over it, they tell us.
These are the people, of course, who are lucky enough to have avoided a direct assault from a sociopath in their own lives. We often understand why they don’t really understand what happened—after all, we were once as clueless as they are. Still, their ignorance of the depth of our pain seems to increase our pain. We feel like we are not being heard, and our suffering is being invalidated.
Debriefing
Karin Huffer, in her book, the Legal Abuse Syndrome, describes this situation in detail in her chapter on “Debriefing.”
Debriefing, she says, is the first step in recovery. In the debriefing process, we tell someone exactly what happened to us, in all the painful detail. Unfortunately, it’s hard to find what Huffer describes as “quality listeners.” These are people who have the ability to hear what we have to say, overriding their own protective filters. She writes:
Protective filters are always at work. If an individual begins to share with another and the data threatens the listener’s feelings of safety, they may try to divert the data or simply not hear it at all ”¦
The function of this protective filter is to maintain the equilibrium of the listener. Victims’ stories shake the foundations that we lean upon in order to feel safe. When it is impossible for friends or family to hear, due to their protective psychological filters shielding them from vicarious pain, the victim feels rejected and alone.
Huffer goes on to describe a formal debriefing process. It’s best done with a quality listener or support group, but an individual can do it alone if necessary.
Support at Lovefraud
I believe that we have many, many quality listeners on Lovefraud. I am always amazed at the thoughtful, comforting and patient comments posted in response to readers who are spilling their traumatized guts.
The reason Lovefraud readers can do this, of course, is because we’ve all been there. We know what it’s like to be deceived, betrayed and assaulted. We know what it’s like to sit amidst the wreckage of what was once our lives. We’re all on the path to recovery, and those of us who are further along help those of us who are just beginning.
Healing, in the end, is an individual journey. To fully recover, we must consciously excavate and examine our pain, and find a way to let it go. But the process is helped immensely when we are heard and validated. I am so glad that Lovefraud offers this to so many people.
Skylar,
What you talk about doing? About how you would handle an accusation? I can do that now. But when I first left my husband, no, I did not have that skill. I had to stop the fight/flight anxiety in my whole being to settle down enough to even appropriately defend myself.
I did see that AR was screwing up. She was bigoted and seemed to have a huge chip on her shoulder, attacking and making assumptions that weren’t warranted. But, I didn’t see her as spath though. I felt sorry for her b/c I wondered if she was like me – when I first left my husband’s abuse, I was so afraid of ALL people that I am sure I was inappropriate, so afraid of where the next attack was coming from and angry that I could never get heard. That was the hardest part, not getting heard. Thanks to LF I now have a group who hears me AND understands but for those first years away from my husband, I was on my own to figure out WTF and it was terrifying.
Another thing I agree with you regarding attitude of LF members, yes they are the best group of emotionally connected people I have encountered. These people are my example of what humanity should be everywhere.
Katy,
I remember your first post. You said you were having a pity party or something like that. And Oxy tried to comfort you and told you to stop having a pity party and then someone else accused her of being callous and that you should be allowed to have the pity party if you want, and then a WHOLE LOTTA DRAMA ENSUED!! LOL!
But that wasn’t your fault, I think there was a troll here that day and she ended up leaving too. Trolls will accuse others of hurting someone else, without that someone else even saying that they were hurt at all! it’s another red flag. Still, from what I remember, you handled the entire episode with grace. Perhaps you judge yourself more harshly than others do?
Katy, I am in agreement with you that ANY diatribe should be removed, and that is what Donna usually does pretty quickly.
When I came here I had been on one of the Msn Sam V owned sites and had been bullied there when I was RAW and CRAZEE, I was like some poor dog that was belly crawling and the MODERATORS were the ones that kicked me….and when I found LF I was pretty shy of on-line groups….and I felt welcomed here then a short time later, BAM I got blasted by a troll….along with Aloha who was one of the earliest and greatest posters here from LF, and we both got “wounded”—-but WONDER WOMAN DONNA immediately came to our rescue and banned the troll who had blasted us….with as many posts as are here I can’t believe what ORDER is kept here….not only by the bloggers themselves for the most part but by Donna.
After the last brouhaha we had here she installed the “report abusive comment” button….and the majority of the bloggers know about our LOVE FRAUD GARDEN SOCIETY…where we “pot plants” and decorate our gardens with “gray rocks.” hee hee When A troll comes by that is obvious (name calling etc) we immediately call a meeting of the Garden Society…..and hit the report abusive comment link.
If someone comes on that seems maybe a bit “snarky” but I’m not sure, I give them the benefit of the doubt at least for a while, and if they continue to be snarky, I just hit the “report” link and say something to Donna about “You might want to look at this person’s blogs” just in case she hasn’t seen it. I try not to over use that link, but if it looks like someone’s feelings are being stomped on I will bring it to Donna’s attention.
I think Sky is right…this is one of the most empathetic groups I’ve seen on the Internet, and for the number of posters here there are very few quarrels.
As far as some of the newer people who have come here….keep in mind that 85% of the women who are physically abused go back again and again and again. There have been hundreds of people that have come here and posted (I’m not sure how many came here and read regularly but didn’t post) who “vanished”—-and I wonder what happened to them. Did they go back? Did they get involved with another P? Are they okay?
I’m just glad that so many LF bloggers do seem to be in the “15% club!” that have made it out of the relationship and are staying out of the relationship and are MAKING NEW LIVES FOR OURSELVES.
Okay, this may seem silly after having experience with a sociopath in my life for years, but I don’t fully understand what they would get from being on this site. Is it looking for info about someone they’ve manipulated? Is it for the satisfaction of messing with people’s minds? Is it about trying to get someone to communicate with them outside the blog? All of the above? I’m trying to understand how it would work or what the purpose would be in this context rather than with a face-to-face relationship. I had conversations with some of the posters mentioned and didn’t notice anything. Confused…
Katy-your post to me means a heck of a lot because you have no idea how bad I felt for so long about my attitude towards you at first. I was going through the hatred period of the spath and wife and I was triggered, but I don’t think that’s an excuse for my behavior. I pissed off a lot of people over that and then I had to step back and leave for quite awhile to process. When I came back with a new name I had a new attitude.
I am so glad that you have not held it against me for what I did. It still makes me feel bad sometimes because you are always SO nice to me and all of your posts are meaningful and they say A LOT to me and other people. I always love chatting with you on here. I still even have one person on here who triggers me constantly but I learned from what happened between us and I don’t want to be irrate on here. I just choose not to respond back. A snipy comment was made to me a couple weeks ago insinuating that I still hated my spaths wife-that is SO not true. Part of me feels very sorry for her, but part of me says-well you get what you accept from people and she chose to take him back. It’s sad but it no longer has anything to do with me-thank GOD.
Sky I really appreciate what you said too regarding the incident that I wasn’t aware of. It does help us learn but at the same time, I’m a little glad I wasn’t around that day.
imustache-I think that the only reason seriously is to get satisfaction by stirring up some shit and getting hurt people riled up. I guess they find the site and think they can have fun stirring the pot-it’s part of what makes them what they are-no conscience bastards/bastardettes!
Lizzy,
I never hold a grudge. Takes too much energy to remember to be mad. 🙂 Besides I felt bad for your hurt. I’ve learned, at least on LF, that OW seem to carry carry this wall of guilt, that wives hold it against them for being other OW. But that’s false. Yes I had a problem with certain specific women, not even All the OW sneaking around with my husband, but only about three of them. You weren’t the OW in my life so I didn’t have any bad feelings about you nor anyone else on here. And as a former cath lab tech, I really related when you had troubles there. So not hard to be nice to you, not hard at all.
Thanks Katy I appreciate it.
Wow.
I had seen SK post something about this this morning on this thread about what happened with AR. Then Katy, you responded. While I wanted to read the posts and did, I chose NOT to respond to it until there were more responses to see how others here, who are regulars were responding. UGH!
One of the things i’m learning to do now in my life that seems to be working like a charm, is NOT reacting to stuff. Just absorbing and reading and mulling it over. I see my PTSD symptoms, have identified what they are. I’ve become very good at analyzing myself now with my past reactions…ok, is this a trigger, why? Or is this my radar, what’s going on? So I think about it. ONe thing i’ve noticed all around me, from friends I’ve met off this blog and communicate with everyday, as well as those in my family, is that they are NOTICING significant changes in me. I’m MUCH more calm than I was, although I still have a tendency to REACT to things. What happened with AR, was a bit of observance, as well as a calling out. My radar was going off the charts with each post.
Yet, while I implied it here and there, I didn’t outright SAY it until that day.
One of the things I’ve learned here is to discern between a spath who is here trying to stir up the dust, the ways they do it, and those that have PTSD and are projecting and reacting, much like I did in MAJOR huge ways when I got here. OH GOD ALMIGHTY! I can’t even look at those posts right now LOL!!! It was BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!!!!
I said she was spath. I meant it. My radar is NOT off, it’s accurate. I think one of the most important things i’ve learned here, is to LEARN HOW TO SEE A SPATH. Why would Donna or anyone else who is so compassionate about victims of spaths, want to EDUCATE the world about them if we can’t recognize the symptoms and call them out? Most will NOT be diagnosed unless they sit in a prison cell. Some are so snarky, it’s obvious. THAT was obvious to me, hands down. What bothered me about it, was the bigotry and other things mentioned by AR, as well as pity plays, manipulation, things we are to RECOGNIZE that played out over time. This was NOT something I called attention too, nor Eden without much consideration and THOUGHT as to how MUCH it bothered those of us that saw it. MomMom the same.
I have NO regrets to calling it out. NONE. I have LEARNED from this experience. I didn’t ALLOW it to trigger me, I just CALLED IT OUT.
My radar is excellent now.
Katy, when I first got here, I was so FULL of SHIAT and PTSD, even Oxy wondered what the hell was wrong with me, while I was also questioning. I had cog/dis SO BAD, was an alcoholic MESS from this relationSHIT! I carried enormous amounts of GUILT, SHAME from being an OW!. Of course, you and I butted heads severely. You are NOT beyond saying what you think Katy, nor am I. But then? I was saying it so much differently than I say it now, and with a different heart….PTSD has a tendency to do that……….
The difference with PTSD and a spath, is obvious. They blame when busted. She did. I expected that. we do with PTSD too, because there is such sensitivity and in so much PAIN,…but eventually, like Ox has said, it becomes less about them and more about us…..and there is nothing more true.
I have great compassion for you Katy, about your ex. I still see very open wounds. Not every spath is like your lousy ex and gets away with what he does,…but then there are others who do.
I think we had a conversation in the past to which you became very angry with me. I was new here and you were still reeling about the OW stuff. I mentioned that I don’t hate all my ex P’s OW’s. In fact, one passed away awhile ago, leaving five children behind. Recently, I had the blessing of speaking with her sister. She knew my ex P and I were together at the time and that I was pregnant when he left me for her sister, to live with her…….and after having spoken with her, it was wonderful. For both of us. She was worried all this time that I was angry with her sister and I let her know that I was not. I forgave her and found her to be a wonderful human being like most of us who are victims of spaths, compassionate, loving, tolerant (ok, granted to the detriment of us given we were with spaths), kind. She was a loving mother and her children miss her dearly. I was so humbled when she cried because I said that there really isn’t anything to forgive with regards to her sister. She was a victim of my ex P. There was only ONE OW of his I couldn’t stand. But she was a DIAGNOSED PD. She loved the evil.
Anyway, with the months that have passed, I’ve seen OW after OW come here and share their stories. I’ve seen many more wives as well. It dawned on me as time has passed, that we are ALL in the same boat. The titanic sunk (spath) but we’re all together in this in the life boat of recovery…just trying to survive the ice cold chill that was spath. Spaths don’t discriminate in their victims. Why should we? Anything beyond compassion for any true survivor who comes here, is a manifestation of projection from our own experiences and PTSD.
I’ve also discovered something else. I REFUSE to let my spath have the last win (evil slime over me), and this is what keeps me moving forward toward healing everyday. Spaths LOVE, GET THEIR JOLLIES ON: Triangulation. THEY LOVE the pain is causes. THEY LOVE TO SEE WOMEN FIGHT OVER THEM.
Naw. Not gonna go there anymore, Katy. If I still carry that anger, guilt and shame, then I’m still triangulated, I’m still giving in to his slime. I understand the carrot he dangled. I understand my vulnerabilities at the time that allowed this very sick, dysfunctional, addicted, nasty, evil individual into my life.
So here, what I get is a blessing. PRACTICE! Practice in compassion, getting it back, so focused on Spath for so long, no matter what race, religion, OW or wife, child or parent….it doesn’t matter, just like it didn’t to the spath….but there are those that will come to this site and use their little sneaky ways to EXPLOIT those here who are so sensitive and suffering from PTSD. I did what I did about AR, not for me, but for the newbies. And I wasn’t the only one who saw it, nor the only one to speak up about it.
I got a crash course education here in how to spot a spath. I respect this site and Donna’s preference to remove the conversation although I don’t agree with it, even if I understand why.
Katy, when you talked about your daughter and what was happening, I cried big tears. I do for Mama Gem too. I have for Oxy. This place has brought back my HEART, my EMPATHY that was SOLELY GIVEN to spath for years. WASTED YEARS….that’s what I mourn now, but I have vowed to myself that I would work hard, VERY HARD at finding myself, praying for god to open my heart to others, but to fine tune my radar to evil.
He’s answering those prayers. Right now, I’m dealing with a child who is very possibly spath. We shall see. I grieve him. That little blonde boy in the picture from grade school with the big I LOVE YOU MOM sign below his feet on the grass from a picture taken years ago at grade school, with him standing above it, pointing to himself. God is HURTS.
But I am learning to gray rock my son. And i have tons of love and support.
I am grateful MOST of all for that, that would not have happened had I not stumbled upon this site trying to figure out why my ex spath would pull a gun out on me after sex butt assed naked.
Now I get it.
Having said that, I have a long ways to go and I say that humbly. But I’m feeling more and more confident everyday in my progress.
No regrets about outting AR, Katy.
And you can bet, that if I see it again, I will do exactly what I am directed to do, push the report abuse button and let Donna know right away.
It’s up to her as to whether or not she sees what’s going on, and as you know, sometimes that can take time for the person to hang themselves.
You may not agree with me. I’m okay with that.
But I’m also learning to validate me. I was taught here and with all the reading and studying I’m doing, to recognize a spath.
I can do it. Ten miles out.
I can’t become strong unless I’m provided the opportunity to test all I’ve learned. I appreciated that opportunity.
But I will handle it differently next time.
(((((((((((((( katy )))))))))))))))))
Actually, I like you. I don’t agree with you all the time, but I’m learning to like you a lot and to observe where you’re coming from. But I’m learning from this site too, as well as my friends off blog, that we can agree to disagree and still respect and care and love one another. 🙂
LL
So if I may so humbly ask…what was it that everyone saw about mommom?? I think I saw someone who was afraid of her own shadow…someone who was too meek to make a move, someone who seemed will never get past what has happened to her, someone hoping and praying for the spath that he would change when we all told her he would not ever change. Other than that, I didn’t see her deliberately being spathy. I just think she is extremely lost. Am I way off base?? What do you all think?
PS: Sorry, I am not real familiar with the etiquette on here yet. She may be still reading…yikes! 🙁