I’m not upset that you lied to me, I’m upset that from now on I can’t believe you.
— Frederic Nietzsche
In recovering from a sociopathic relationship, one of our greatest challenges is to rediscover the meaning of trust. Trust is a kind of glue in our lives. If we are going to be vibrant human beings, living with healthy curiosity and developing ourselves through calculated risks and learning from our experiences, we have to be able to depend on some background truths. When our lives are rocked by unexpected disaster, the impact on our ability to trust our perceptions or our world around us can be massive.
This issue comes up over and over on LoveFraud. We hear it most clearly from the people in early recovery. But it’s an issue at every stage of healing, including the process of forgiving discussed in the last article.
This article will look at some issues around trust, and offer some thoughts about why a relationship with a sociopath illuminates this issue, and what we can do to recover.
Catching the sociopath’s disease
As readers of my writing know, I have my own perspective of the psychology of sociopaths. It sometimes overlaps current theories, but is based more on what I have observed and lived through. I believe that the core issue in the sociopathic dysfunction is a virtually total blockage of interpersonal trust.
I settled on this, because it can explain other symptoms they exhibit. It also matches the personal stories of everyone I’ve known who arguably could be diagnosed as a sociopath, a psychopath, a malignant narcissist or a decompensating borderline. Their personal stories tend to be about the social isolation caused by their differences in temperament or circumstances, or about massive breakdown in their safety or nurture, especially as infants or toddlers. I believe they skew toward the independent, rather than dependent side of the disorder spectrum because of the developmental timing of these crises, as well as lack of support and validation at a crucial time.
Be that as it may, they not only gave up trusting, but blocked off need for it as dangerous to their physical and psychological survival. And they became chronic, eternal loners, living by their wits on the “mean streets,” and viewing any part of the world based on trust-related structures with envy, bitterness and disdain. Their highest sense of the outcome of relationships is winning, because it supports their survival needs and because getting what they want is the only type of interpersonal exchange they can regard as both safe and pleasurable.
With only transient and shallow human connections, they live with emotional starvation, grasping after anything that makes them feel “real” or rewarded. Except for expediency, they have no stake in the world of mutual agreements, like laws or social contracts, and no motivation to behave altruistically. As eternal outsiders, they assume that anything they own or build is vulnerable. So, they are highly concerned with neutralizing threats and building invulnerability (wealth, social acceptance, etc.). But jumping ship, when necessary, is relatively easy, because their need to feel like they are winning or in control is more essential to their internal stability than their attachment to any person or thing.
All of this is important in the context of contagion. Feelings and feelings-connected ideas are contagious. We know this from mob psychology. Peer pressure. The way the character of an authority figure, like a CEO, can shape an entire organization. Many of us have gotten involved in “project” relationships where we feel like we have the resources to help someone out of depression, addiction or some kind of life failure, and discovered they’ve dragged us down as much as we’ve dragged them up. And of course, we are influenced by emotional vocabularies of our families of origin, as well as our intimate relationships, because we strongly desire to stay bonded.
Relationships with sociopaths put a special spin on the issue of contagion. The sociopath urgently wants to influence us. On our side, we are typically comfortable with sacrificing some personal independence for a positive and intense connection. (All relationships involve some compromise, but people who evade or escape early from sociopathic relationships may more resistant to early concessions.) So we have one partner, the sociopath, who needs us to give up our autonomy and another partner, us, who is willing to do so in exchange for the benefits of intensely positive relationship.
We feel like we are in agreement. We feel like winners. But as the relationship progresses, our objectives begin to conflict. We are looking for ongoing emotional support and validation, to feel loved and to know our wellbeing is important to our partner. They are looking for control of resources in their ongoing struggle to survive as unconnected loners. Once they have won with us, they turn their attention to new sources, unless we threaten to revolt. Then, they may re-groom us with loving attention or try to diminish our will through verbal, emotional or physical abuse. For them, the choice of technique isn’t meaningful, as long as it works. Over time, they are more openly annoyed at “wasting” energy on us, unless they are getting something new out of it.
For us, living with a sociopath’s reality is both a radical re-education and an ongoing demolition of beliefs we need to be true. LoveFraud is peppered with statements that begin with “How could he”¦?” and “I can’t believe that”¦” and “What kind of person would”¦?” One of the core pieces of our learning the sociopath’s reality is feeling alone, unsupported and unable to depend on a supposedly trusted connection. Another piece is the feeling of emotional starvation and being in a game designed to keep us in the loser role. Another is the discovery that trust is a fool’s game, and we have to stop if we’re going to survive.
That’s not all. There is the chronic bitterness, envy and resentfulness. There is the aggrieved entitlement to any behavior that serves them, as payback for whatever forced them to jam their ability to trust into the locked basement of their psyches. There is the whole mechanical modus operandi, rigidly designed to avoid the fear and grief of abandonment. There is frantic need to keep busy, developing new schemes to avoid slipping into a pit of depression that they equate with suicide. Ruthless survivors, at whatever cost to themselves or anyone else, is probably the most accurate way to describe them.
All this is what we have been exposed to.
Understanding the lesson
“When the student is ready, the teacher will arrive,” is a well-known Buddhist saying. Another bit of Buddhist wisdom is that we fall in love with our teachers.
When it comes to relationships with sociopaths, this perspective can be a hard pill to swallow. However, we can agree that falling in love with these people initiates one of the most costly and painful lessons of our lives. For those of us who are vulnerable to these relationships, the lesson is also difficult to untangle and ultimately profound. Eventually, it leads many of us to question some of our deepest beliefs and to find the courage to let go of beliefs that have outlived their usefulness, even though they once gave us comfort and feelings of safety in the world.
Fortunately, that courage pays off for us, though we may not know it while we’re grieving something we loved. The greatest achievements of our lives often involve surmounting fear to take huge risks. There is no more fearful risk than letting go of a foundation belief that we trusted for our survival. But we let it go when we have no choice, because it is clearly no longer adequate to support our survival.
In a relationship with a sociopath, we are immersed in an entirely different human reality than our own. The mutual attraction between people of a sociopathic type and people who have codependent tendencies is a cliché that is probably not accurate to all the people and situations described on LoveFraud, but it does describe an interpersonal dynamic that is reasonably consistent. Even people who have been blindsided by out-of-the-blue personality changes face the challenges of dealing with sociopathic relationships with our non-sociopathic beliefs and survival strategies.
This interpersonal dynamic is a kind of head-on collision of radically different survival styles. The sociopathic partner is committed to depending on himself, no matter what temporary dependencies he or she might arrange. The other partner is oriented toward depending on agreements of mutual support. This doesn’t mean that non-sociopaths cannot survive outside an intimate relationship, anyone who would attract them or even consider a relationship with one of them probably is the type of person who feels they do better in reciprocal, committed and trust-based partnership with another person.
The reason codependency comes into this is that codependents and others on the dependent side of the personality spectrum experience needs (rather than wants) in their preference for mutual support as a survival strategy. The more intimate the relationship, the more they need the other person to become actively involved in the preservation their wellbeing, especially in the emotional realm. Those perceived needs (rather than wants) make it more likely they will bargain away important aspects of their identity, resources and plans into order to obtain that caring attention.
Sociopathic survival depends on other people’s agreements to provide them with resources. We could argue that they are just as dependent as we are, but the key difference is the way we make decisions about our lives. Sociopathic decisions are “me” oriented, whether they are impulsive in-the-moment choices or important long-term choices of change in life direction. Their partners — who are both targeted by the sociopath and self-selected by their tolerance or inability to escape the sociopath’s treatment in relationship — have the tendency to put “us” first in their decision-making.
At this point, I can hear rumbling out there of “Tell me something I don’t know.” I know you know. But I hope this long description clarifies the real nature of our challenge. We have been closely involved with someone who doesn’t trust or connect emotionally, and who uses our need or desire for a trustworthy partner to enforce our involvement and extract resources that he or she has no intention of repaying. We have immigrated to planet Sociopath and our visas are all stamped “loser.”
Since this is their world, what would they tell us if we asked them about how to get this loser stamp off our visa? If we caught them at a moment when they were blissed out with anti-anxiety drugs stolen from their last girlfriend or feeling generous because they were feeling flush after some big win, they might say, “Don’t be such a dope. The world is full of people and situations in which other people win by using you. If you don’t care enough about you to protect yourself and your resources, this is what you get. Save your whining for your victim friends. You must like it or you wouldn’t volunteer for it.”
Ouch. Well, the Buddhists don’t say anything about the teacher being a nice guy.
Power and Resilience
The meaning of this lesson changes as we move through our phases of healing. People in early-stage recovery are terrified by the prospect of a world without trust. People in the angry stage are fighting back, sharpening their skills at identifying situations and people that cannot be trusted, building better boundaries against aggressive users, and getting active in neutralizing threats to them and people they care about.
After we develop and practice these skills, we earn some confidence about our ability to deal with incoming threats. This enables us to gradually shift our focus from vigilance against threats (what we don’t want) to interest recreating our lives (what we do want). We don’t forget what happened or minimize its importance. But we build on what we learned about our power and entitlement to make choices. Maybe for the first time since we were teenagers, we invest serious thought on how we want to feel, who we want to be, and the way we want our lives to play out in this new world.
With our power to choose comes increased emotional independence. We start viewing our lives as something we create and our results as something we earned. We still value relationships, but we are less willing to compromise our identities, give away our resources or change our plans. We become more interested in less dramatic relationships with other people who are learning through living. We share stories, validation and encouragement, but we are also conscious of each other’s limited resources. A relationship may naturally deepen. But we don’t need that to survive, and we are cautious, because we don’t want to discover too late that our great friendship did not prepare us for the different needs of a love affair.
When we face the idea of never trusting again in the way we once did, it can be very scary. The scariest thing is what might happen inside us. We don’t want to become suspicious, angry people. We don’t want to live in a constant state of anxious alert.
But we’re not giving up the ability to trust. We’re giving up something else, the trust of a child who has no choice but to trust, because it is dependent. And so that child turns to magical thinking to preserve belief in the trustworthiness of its parents or the safety of its environment, no matter how much evidence there may be to the contrary. This is the mirror-reverse of the sociopath’s survival strategy of blocking of trust. If we are still doing this magical thinking as adults, we also are dealing with blocked development that keeps us in a childlike reality. In learning to trust conditionally, and to limit our investments in other people’s lives to match what we get out of it, we are transitioning to the world of grown-up trust.
The childlike trust is a trust in being loved and supported, no matter what. In truth, we haven’t really believed in this for a long time. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have kept paying more and more to be accepted and loved. Even though we can live in ways that reduce our risk, we already know that no one can really buy an insurance policy against things changing. Everything changes. An awake, aware life creates itself with the knowledge of change. But it doesn’t mean that there is nothing we can trust.
It just means that we trust conditionally. We trust what is consistent, until it isn’t consistent anymore. This makes almost everything in our lives trustworthy. The sun rises and sets. Snarling dogs are likely to bite. Cars eat gas and steel bumpers are stronger but more expensive to replace that plastic ones. Roses like a lot of rain. Tomatoe plants don’t. The leftovers in the refrigerator that smell icky are bad to eat. People who don’t share our ethics or world views are interesting at dinner parties, but risky to do business with or marry. These are background truths we can conditionally trust until something changes.
These smaller, conditional trusts serve the same purpose as our desire for larger, unconditional trusts did before. The real difference is that we trust now in a way that leaves more room for life. Knowing that trust may be transient makes it that much more lovely. We have limited resources — intellectual and emotional — and one of the risks of life is to trust what appears to be stable, so that we can use our resources to make new things grow.
For readers who are not anywhere near ready to feel powerful about their choices, here is a simple rule you can use until you are. Guard your trust as though it were an extension cord from your heart. Don’t give it away to anyone you don’t firmly believe deserves it. And be prepared to unplug the cord at a moment’s notice. You can always plug it back in again, if you find you’ve made a mistake by unplugging it. No one who really cares (or who is capable of caring) about you will mind you taking care of yourself. But your trust in other people and in the world should be a conduit for good into your life. That’s what it’s for.
If it brings anything else, don’t thing twice. Unplug it. A good life should have lots of these extension cords, some heavier duty than others, leading to all kinds of things that bring us good. People, institutions, books, artists, blogs. If unplugging one or two makes us feel lost or destabilized, it probably means we need to find more things we enjoy without our lives depending on it.
In conclusion, you’ve probably all figured out that this is really about “becoming the sociopath,” but in a good way. We use the contagion to strengthen some of our weak spots, and to gain access to the “inner sociopath” when it’s appropriate. There is fundamentally nothing wrong with what sociopaths do, except that it’s all that they do. They can’t respond to love. They can’t trust anything but themselves. They can’t stop replaying their primal drama, because their lack of trust blocks them from ever learning that they are not alone.
Fortunately for us, more dependent types are open to input. We not only can learn, but many of us are truly excited by anything that breaks us out of our limitations. We know we’re not losers, but sometimes it takes a long time to overcome our training. In getting involved with a sociopath, we took the biggest risk of our lives. We stuck our heads into the mouth of the lion, and if you’ve gotten this far, you’ve taken a good look around and said, “Hey, I can do that.”
Next time, unless I get distracted, we will discuss love. This week I will not be available to follow the thread, so I hope you enjoy it, that it makes some sense to everyone, and it makes you feel good about wherever you are now. If you are on LoveFraud, I think you deserve to feel proud of yourself.
Namaste. The spirit of enlightened self-caring in me salutes the spirit of enlightened self-caring in you.
Kathy
Joy!
Oh, sweety, my thoughts and prayers are for you! Please take it easy, ok? We’ll be waiting to hear on your progress!
**Giant huggles for Joy!!**
Kathleen,
Thank you, doll, for your post to me. Means quite a lot to me, actually. I’ll elaborate later if that’s ok….
And I don’t think the lovely ShabbyChic was even considering you to be the cause for her current sadness and confusion. I bet she found this thread and the proceeding comments to be the place to express herself. Because your threads are always…busy.
ShabbyChic, darling, this is how I see it. I could give a flying flippidy dippidy what a person’s psychologically diagnosis would be if they even considered visiting a trained and learned therapist. Not relevant.
What IS relevant to me is how a person treats me and absolutely how they treat others as well. If that person is cruel, selfish, egocentric, cold, calculating, manipulative then that person is pure toxic. Even if she/he exhibits one of these traits…I’m gone. History.
You are a wonderful, adorable, kind, loving and generous woman. I see this from your writing. You are consistent in these most virtuous traits. I like you, sweety, and I care about you.
Go with your gut. Always. If you feel any confusion and/or sadness when engaging, interracting with a person then you shouldn’t second guess your intuition. Listen to her. She is the bestest, most wisest, most protective best friend you will ever have. I so DO know this.
We will be here for you when you need to share. That statement you can trust. Implicitly.
Kathy, as always such good and timely stuff. Trust is the one area I’m struggling with. I actually said to a friend, and I might have posted here that my new motto is “Always honest, Never trusting” My friend replied, “never trusting isn’t a good virtue.” My response was for me right now it is as it means that I’m being self protective. I guess I don’t mean never trusting anyone as I do have people in my life who I trust completely because over the course of my life circumstances they have earned it. I’m thinking that with new people or old ones who display new behaviors I’m just very guarded. So I want to share my last few weeks because maybe some of you can relate to where I’m at laugh with me or offer wisdom. I have been traveling out of state every other weekend to visit my dearest friends in the area where I was born and raised. Boat guy and I have renewed a very good friendship once some boundaries were in place. We used to date all during high school and so he is like an old shoe. He is in an unhappy marriage that he isn’t ready to leave due to a child. Stated he was not looking for an affair, but for me that is what it was feeling like. We had our kids with us, but the wife doesn’t know. And he is calling, emailing, texting every day I was developing an emotional attachment in addition to a very physical attraction so I put the brakes on and told him we needed to dial it down to a less constant communication. So far so good he understands where I’m at and has honored my request. Next guy I meet is way too young for me as in 20 yrs younger but we have mutual friends and are both very lonely for the physical no emotional connection. So for the first time in 6 yrs since the ex with his whole story of impotency. I have sex. Never been the girl to do the booty call wasn’t sure I even could. But it had been so long since I had been touched my a guy that it was just on from the first touch. And what did I learn from this? That the best part of sex was lacking as in there was no feeling or emotion beyond the mechanics of it all. Sort of empty in the end. Nice to be wanted for the moment but still felt the lack of something that for me I now know is essential. So the very next day, I go to see my best friend since I was 14. His marriage is my ideal vision of what a marriage should be, such a good husband and father. He takes me to meet his step dad since it was Father’s Day. His step dad was married to my friend’s mom for 22 yrs, and she died of cancer a few years back. He was 25 yrs younger than his wife and only 8 yrs older than me and my friend. And this guy was so funny, intelligent, respectful, genuine. He asked me out and later my friend told me that he has not dated anyone since his wife died. My friend was shocked and I was caught off guard, but my friend was pleased. The new guy spent a whole day in thinking over our five hour meeting and then went to my friend and said tell me who she really is. Is she who I saw yesterday? My friend described me as in my wants, needs, personality, dead on better than I know or admit to knowing myself. And this new guys response is that for the first time since his wife died he is ready to stop grieving and to start living again. That was a wow moment for me as I really liked this guy. Wasn’t thinking romance just was talking to him on the porch all day about every topic under the sun, and laughing so much. Such a good day. My thoughT was the universe is mocking me or has a sense of humor. Because once I realized what I truly wanted which is a good friend that I can open up with and grow with and just enjoy life with and stopped denying this part of me something unexpected happened. And now here I am in a hospital which should scare this guy completely away after watching his wife die and his response is that if I want him here to hold my hand just say the word and he will come from 4.5 hours away. I think I’ll be fine. I told him not my idea of good time for him or me, but it was a sweet thought. One my ex would never have had as the ambulance would bring me here while he stayed in bed and slept and seldom came the fifteen minutes from home to visit when I was ill. So I guess, my question my thought is why does the thought of a good guy with an excellent history scare me so much and why did I think that a random roll in the hay was a better option for me? And Oxy I can hear you now. I will take it so slow the snails will be passing me by, but when is it okay to move on? How do we know? And how do we open to the possibility of a future with someone else and leave our hearts open while still being guarded?
Hey all, Don’t mean to hog the thread tonight but after hours of reading and posting I just saw your comments and wanted to comment back. And really I’m in need of diversion, and I love you all.
Matt, So true. I have many stressors including the toxic mold house which is still heading to court so not just the ex but he sure played his part with the whole court thing. Thanks for your support. And Kathy got to meet you. I say book a cruise line and let’s all vaca together:)! I would sure buy my ticket. All aboard!
New Lily, thanks so much for your thoughts. This site is a gift to all who need it.
Jim, your comment made me smile. If your still napping down there, I’m still a perched up above:)! My last heart rate was 78 and that is so much better than yesterdays 53-60 range. Thank God!
Libelle, Aw, French and a candle. I can appreciate both. Thanks.
EribnB, Hotel Hospital. Got some good books, a laptop with internet, and room service. Not 5 star accommodations, but they will due for some R&R. And some awesome Lovefraud friends to enlighten, inspire, and share with. Not bad at all:)!
JaneSmith, Giant Hugs right back at ya.
ShabbyChic, You got an open invitation here. Garbage stinks no matter what you call it. I have been enlightened and felt a kinship with you from the start. You stay right here with us. Don’t doubt yourself. I was so there, too. Right up until he filed false charges and put his hand on a Bible and lied. Such a devout Catholic my ass! But until then there was a nagging doubt that made excuses of maybe he really isn’t this maybe I’m wrong. So what? He is trash and I got burned for loving. It hurts and this place helps. That’s all that matters.
Witsend, Amen to what you posted to Shabbychic. Well said.
Thank you for your comments and support! I just got home from work (yeah, I finally found a job) and I just skimmed over the posts, I have to type something up for work now that I have to take with me tomorrow. Thank you, thank you, thank you!! 🙂
Joy:
Your post about meeting the new guy rang so true with me. I decided a week or so ago I had to jump start some area of my life and decided that at least I could get the dating life moving again. So, I met this guy and went out to dinner this past Sunday. Perfect evening. I asked him out the other night. He called up the next night and we spoke for an hour and a half. Very nice We went out to dinner tonight. Honest adult conversation. Another perfect evening.
All I keep thinking is this guy is good looking, smart, genuinely nice and polite and my sociopath-meter hasn’t buzzed once — and Lord knows I’m on the lookout for redflags. I forgot what an honest to goodness relationship where two people respect each other is like.
Oh, yes. And when I walked him to the subway stop he stammered something, then regrouped and said “that didn’t come out too well. What I wanted to say is I’d like to see you again.” I’m taking it slow. But, I have to admit it is sooooooooo nice not to feel like I’m walking around on eggshells and wondering what the hell the other person is thinking. Yup, a real, adult relationship. I think we’ve both earned it after our Ss.
I have been reading postings on this site for about a month now. This Healing post has started to help me understand. I am so glad this is here because it helps me know that I am not alone. Sorry this is so long but as you know dealing with a sociopath is never quick and easy. I have been in a relationship with a sociopath for almost 17 years now. I met him when I was 16 years old. I have always known that he was not all together there but I was raised in a controlling environment and so it was second nature to become his victim. He was mentally, emotionally, verbally and then became very physically abusive in our marriage and when I left he became irate. He physically attacked me and so I had him arrested. We were separated for about 9 months. He moved across the country and did not see our children for 7 months. Then stupidly instead of letting the divorce go through I became very scared and decided to reconcile with him. I became pregnant with our 3rd child. I have always thought of him as having narcissism. I think he has always been a sociopath but was never able to completely act on it until we separated. Now after being back with him and seeing how he has been able to live like a sociopath he is worse than ever. Recently on his last visit (our youngest is 4 months old) I found out that he was cheating on me during my pregnancy and after our youngest was born. I was in the hospital for a week in preterm labor and he never came to visit me. He was not there when our son was born either. He did not come to see him for 2 months. He lives across the country. He said it was a money issue. I know now that it was because he was having an affair the whole time and spending money on flying this woman to see him. What scares me the most is that I looked him right in the eyes and asked him if he was cheating on me and he lied to me over and over again with no remorse what so ever. Now he is telling me to “get over it and move on” and “you are not allowed to talk about the affair”. He shows hardly no emotion about what he did. I asked him “why do you hate me”? He said “I don’t hate you”. I was thinking only someone who hated me would do all the things that he has done. I think he feels nothing at all but feelings for himself. He said that the affair meant nothing and that she was just sex. That she was a drug addict and unstable person. I knew he was lying. He told me not to talk to the women he was having an affair with. She called me and I did talk to her. She told me that they were very serious with each other for almost 4 months. That he told her they would be getting an apartment together. The whole time he was telling me that we were going to live 2gether as a family again soon. He told her and his roommate that he only had 2 children.. Never told them about the new baby. They all thought he was divorced. He told them lies about his family, his life growing up and the lies just went on and on. I spoke to his roommate and he was irate at the lies that my husband had told him. He was living this absolute FAKE life. Nothing was real or truthful at all. He sends me money to help with the children and acts like it is breaking him but he lives in a pent house suit in a very expensive city. We live in a rundown apartment. It makes me sick that he is okay with his kids living so differently from how he lives. His roommate said that my husband had major credit card debut. The women he had the affair with said that he would take her for $400.00 dollar dinners. She thought he had tons of money. I also learned that when our youngest was just days old that my husband went on a week’s vacation to Australia. Also he was cheating on the person that he was cheating on me with. I also feel sick because he is the only person I have ever been intimate sexually with and he has unprotected sex with all these women.
I feel so ashamed and embarrassed that I have let myself fall back into this trap again. I want so much more for my kids. Our oldest son has severe disabilities and deserves a better father. I wonder if he will ever feel remorse for what he has done to our children. The sad thing is I have been in this relationship for so long that I am so afraid that I will never have a “normal” relationship with someone. I know that I am co-dependent. I hate that about myself. I have this husband who lives in a fantasy world. He is busy raising a glass to toast a drink at the local bar near him and I am trying to raise three children. He is becoming an alcoholic drinking every weekend and during the week. He is a successful businessman but so immature when it comes to relationships. His father I know also fits the description of a sociopath. That really scares me. I just want to heal from this and be able to trust someone again. I am afraid I will never be able to trust another person. I am a loving, caring and compassionate person but this has made me bitter. I am so sick of being a victim to all this. Thanks for listening if anyone read this. Just needed to tell my story.
Joy,
So sorry to hear your in the hospital. I hope you will be feeling better soon.
You asked that thought provoking question that we all want the answer to! How do we know when we are ready?? I certainly don’t have the answer for that and I don’t think anyone else can actually “know” for sure either. My past “pattern” in the relationship department has been with alcoholics. Not the same as being with an S/P/N, but not healthy either. A codependant relationship for sure.
I think the best way to approach a new relationship especially if your desire is a long term relationship, is “baby steps”. When things move to fast that is usually a red flag. Friends first, I think is what I would be looking for. I hate to say it but I think as women we react “emotionaly” and once sex is involved we don’t think straight…We think with our heart instead of our intellect. Lol. Sex seems to add that emotional aspect to the “blooming” relationship and when it happens to soon, before the trust is established, then it seems kind of like putting the cart before the horse. It’s like watching the end of the movie before watching how the movie starts.
I Have finally realized I can’t get emotionally invested in a relationship to quickly and still be able to rationalize if that person is “good” for me. First I need to see if that person might be good for me ( and also if I would be good for them) and then SLOWLY get emotionally involved. Does that make any sense?
OMG I can’t believe I am even saying anything here…. If you knew how long it has been since I have been in a relationship you would be LYAO. I guess the only thing I can say is that I have given it ALOT of thought and have had alot of time to think about it. Thats my two cents for what its worth….
Oh Joy, it’s good to hear from you! I totally remember when I had a lot of stress-related physical symptoms, if that’s what it was. But mold? Aspergillis? I’ll check with my sister, the doctor-hating, I-can-fix-myself, supplement genius, and find out what finally ended her massive, craziness-producing sensitivities. It might be worth a shot.
Your letter of adventures was so much fun to read. The boat guy — aren’t you smart. I had a similar thing happen with a married old boyfriend, and it was “whoa!” I don’t do married guys, even if he did remember as an incredibly sexy person, and I can’t even imagine anyone thinking about me that way these days. I don’t need that fix that bad.
And the young guy — the same age spread as my ex-S. I’ve read a lot about these relationships. Apparently they’re great for women who just are in it for the endorphins. But that’s not me, and apparently not you either. Sex is too good to waste it on people who don’t generate enough oxytocin to really open up.
And the widower. Gosh, if you have more life than you can handle, could you just pack it in a box and send it to upstate New York UPS. I am totally envious, but loving it all vicariously.
So why are you scared? Are you really asking?
My opinion is that you’re scared of yourself. Afraid you’re going to start futuring on this thing and ruin it. Instead of letting it evolve naturally. That’s why I’d be scared, if it were me.
So what would I do about this? I’d have a really stern talk with myself about living one day at a time. It doesn’t matter what he thinks or what he says, as much as how it feels for you, minute by minute. You are nowhere near trusting him, no matter how good he seems. You can enjoy the hell out of him on a right now basis. Take care of yourself the same way, gently back-pedaling if it seems to be veering out of your comfort zone.
Chances are he’s a nice guy. He’s got some credentials in your life. But you need to learn so many things before you make any commitments, even in your private little heart. It sounds like you’ve already found a friend. As I wrote in an earlier post, think carefully before you risk a great friendship on a love affair. It can come out great, but do some homework first. See how he feels about the fact that you had a life before you met him.
And he’s a widower. He says he’s ready to come back to life. That’s really cool. But give him room, even if he doesn’t want it. to find his land legs. This is a new world. He’s starting all over again, and he’s got to find his way. The fact that he’s coming out of the grieving cave doesn’t mean that he knows who he is alone or courting a new woman. You don’t want him to make mistakes either.
I dated a widower a few years ago, when I was in therapy. An absolutely wonderful man, but he was trying to distract himself from his grief. He was there, there, there, pressing for more and more dates, and then he evaporated. Fortunately I was pretty busy with my own stuff — merely flattered by the attention, but also recognizing that he was not dealing with the biggest thing in his life. So it didn’t rattle me. But it’s something to think about with widowers.
The thing that is really true for both of you is that you’re both starting over in a way. Coming out of something, feeling your way along. The easiest thing in the world is to fly into something new. The hardest thing is to feel your way along when you want to fly into something new. But if you can be gentle and kind and patient with each other, and find a way to care more that each of you is okay than how it comes out, you’ll come to the right conclusion.
Or so I think.
Love —
Kathy
kate09, welcome to LoveFraud. I’m sorry you qualify to belong here, but I’m glad you found us.
You’re going to get lots of help and support here. People who can be a lot more specific about your situation than me. I’m just the “welcome wagon.”
But it might help you to go back into the archives and read some of the articles that catch your eye. There is no question your dealing with a very bad man and that you’re an abused wife. And that you need help.
I’m sorry your life is so hard. But you’re here now, and hopefully you find some support here in making it better.
Keep posting, please.
Kathy