After the sociopath: How do we heal? Part 9 – Returning to Wounded Innocence

In the series on recovering from traumatic relationships, this is the third article on grieving and letting go. It is an extension of the last one, which discussed exploring the past to understand our patterns of belief and behavior. This is about how we do it and what we find. Or rather about how I did it, and what I found

Unpacking frozen memories

This week I reached out to someone whose name is part of my history. She was once the lover of a man I regarded as the great love of my life. He was an alcoholic poet who died when I was 23. She is a poet too. I found her web site, read a poem about the first time they made love, and wrote her an e-mail to introduce myself.

She wrote back, asking about his life and how he died. I tried to answer her factually, but found myself drifting over and over into how I felt about it all.

She asked if I ever wrote about him. I told her that, when he died, it was as thought my memory was wiped. I couldn’t remember his voice or the joking banter that was part of our everyday conversations. Except for photos, I couldn’t remember what he looked like. I was so angry, it took me four years to finally grieve him and let him go. At that time, I dreamed about him, and those memories are more vivid than our life together. If I could write anything, it would be only my story. I couldn’t reproduce him in prose. I wish I could.

I wrote a second letter, apologizing for going on and on about my feelings. I tried to tell her more about our life together, getting lost again in telling her about how it was for me as more and more memories returned. Then, within the same day, I wrote her a third letter. Apologizing once again for dumping all this me, me, me on her, a stranger. Telling her it wasn’t my conscious intention when I wrote her, but I was using her to unpack those frozen memories. That’s what she was seeing in these letters.

It wasn’t the first time I’ve done this. Through the years of recovery, I’ve reached out several times to lost people in my history. Always thinking I was just writing to say hi, and then finding memories flooding me. The one the sticks in my mind was an e-mail exchange with my high-school boyfriend, who broke up with me after we begin attending different colleges. It happened at the same time that my mother threw me out, because I’d tried to tell her what my father had done to me and was about to do to my younger sister. My mother accepted my father’s lies about a 13-year-old seducing him. Before this boy broke up with me, I finally told him the truth about me. Then he told me he wanted to date someone else at his new school.

He remembers only the sensible break-up of two teenagers going to schools in different states. But talking to him reopened what I was living through. I was at the edge of adulthood, abandoned by everyone who cared about me. Until then, I survived on an illusion that I could have a “regular life” by pretending it never happened. Now I saw that I was going to pay over and over. I felt how my personality tightened around fear, determination to ward off new monsters, and a hunger for something I called love, but now think was simply safety.

This was one of the foundations of behavior and belief I described in the last article. These events shaped much of what happened later. I didn’t have to think about it intellectually. I felt it. The insight shined like a light on the future of that young adult.

I had to stop talking to him. I was starting to say cruel and provocative things to him, sniping he didn’t deserve. Because in insight, I also saw him as he was, as well as my mother as she was, from the vantage point of the distant future. He too was entering his adulthood, actively shaping his future. How much of his potential could I expect him to sacrifice for a girl who was truly messed up? Would he fight my father? Was there anything fair about expecting him to take care of me, when he never would have gotten involved with me if he’d known the truth? Likewise, my mother, what did I expect from her? She was beaten down, trying to survive with her three younger children, and she was afraid of my father and afraid to leave him. She chose their survival.

I could see how my father’s behavior had damaged me and how my damage burdened other people. It wasn’t my fault or theirs. Whether they took on my burden was a decision about their lives, their resources, what they could handle. I had no choice, but they did. And they had more than me to consider.

I could see how it all came together. Without thinking about the word, I forgave my boyfriend and my mother. Instead of being angry, I mourned for myself, that young girl with no one but herself to depend on. It could have been different. But it was what it was. She had to move on, wounded but with no time or place to heal. She would create a life that reflected the reality of those unhealed wounds. And in understanding this, I forgave myself too. I stopped thinking I was stupid or selfish or incompetent or lazy or anything else. I was someone who lacked the resources that a lot of people took for granted, and I did the best I could.

Inside the myths

The more I crack open the “truths” of my life to discover what is really inside them, the more I come to realize that luck is a big factor. Perhaps that is too light a word for what I mean — the random way that events coalesce at a moment in time.

The great learning of the angry phase is that we are not responsible for what we cannot control. Our traumatic encounters begin with location and timing. If things had been a little different, we would not have been there. Beyond that, we did not want to be hurt or ask for it. Other people have their own histories and structures of behavior and belief. We did not create them and we cannot control them. If they had been different, it would have come out differently.

In the angry phase, we spend time dissecting what happened, finding what to blame on the circumstances and on the people who hurt us. We look outside ourselves for the reasons our good intentions attracted such bad results.

Twenty-five years after this husband died, another man drove me into healing myself. I believe he is a sociopath. In getting over him, one of the things that moved me from anger into grieving and letting go was a jarring realization that there was nothing I could blame on the sociopath that didn’t seem to be equally true of me. He was using me and he didn’t care about my feelings. True, but I also wanted him to be what I wanted him to be. And though my methods of coercion were more socially acceptable as “expressions of love,” their intention was to persuade him or guilt-trip him into giving me what I wanted.

The same was true for lying or obfuscation. Whatever he hid from me, I hid as much from him. I didn’t share what I really felt or wanted. I kept posing as an adult when I had a wounded child’s needs for unconditional love and complete safety. The same was true for being selfishly uncaring about what I wanted. I claimed to be committed to making him happy, but what I really meant by “happy” was him loving me and making a forever commitment. .

If I had accepted what his words and behavior were telling me about his capacity to give me what I wanted, that would have been the time to decide whether I liked or loved him. No blame. No fault. He fit or he didn’t. The truth was he didn’t. I wasn’t lucky that way with him. His life might have been improved by me, but the opposite wasn’t true. This was a frog, not a prince. It was that simple.

Luck turned on its head

As I get older, and keep cracking open the bits of mythology that make up my beliefs about my own life. I sometimes find surprises.

Writing the former lover of my dead husband, my memories opened up. Because I read her poetry and remember a few things he told me, I knew that she wasn’t certain about him and ultimately sent him away. She knew he was an ex-con. She knew he always had a bottle of beer in his hand. She knew he was seductive and smooth. I understand why she passed on him. She had professional stature, life equity, something to lose.

It was different for me. I was barely 20, desperate for a new life. Equally desperate for acceptance, because I felt like a freak. I had a soul-killing clerical job, no money, no clue of what to do next. I had heard things about him.That he had stocked the library shelves in a brand-new prison and was literate, had read everything. He was already a published poet, and people spoke of him with awe and affection.

When I met him, I saw a big handsome man with a background as bad as mine who had made something extraordinary of himself. The booze and drugs, the terminal liver disease, our shared ability to ignore the fact that he was engaged to another woman somehow just added to the mystique. I looked at him and saw a future that was better than anything I could create alone. That night I stayed with him and never left.

I told her how it began. And then I told her about the end. Watching his character and intellect deteriorate as his liver failed, the blessing of his death in a car accident, my angry refusal to grieve him until I had a psychotic break four years later. But, by the time he died, I had a profession. I was a writer. He fed me books, taught me to edit, gave me rules of writing and thinking which serve me to this day. He left this girl, 13 years younger than him, a new future.

That’s the mythology. In the first letter, I wrote “I was lucky.” I meant lucky to find him, but the words stayed with me after I sent the letter. As I told her more in the second letter, I found myself looking at me through her eyes. My myth of a great romance began to shrivel to the story of a vulnerable child-woman and the out-of-control addict she had chosen as a replacement daddy. I would do anything, accept any treatment or circumstance, as long as he would stay alive and keep convincing me that he loved me. Yes, he was charismatic and funny, brilliant and talented, and probably more tolerant of my childish neediness than almost anyone else might have been. But it was a dead-end ride and I wouldn’t get out of it without more damage.

By the time I was writing the third letter, I was not telling her about the times he had hit me. The ways he made me carry his grass, because he was already a three-time loser. How, when we were broke, he wanted me to start whoring. How our open marriage was a license for him, not me. How when he became too bored writing the trash novels that supported us, I did it alone. Or how, at the end, he kept getting into serious accidents with other women, until he eventually died in a car with a woman who barely survived it.

In the myth, these were blips in a mostly charmed life with someone who understood me and who my horrible life into something interesting and glamorous. But now I remembered that the last time he went to prison, it was because of a tip by a woman he was living with, who was supposedly working her way through college as a prostitute. I thought about how people with my background make up the majority of prostitutes. The woman who tipped the police about the suitcase of grass in his trunk had gotten rid of him, like the woman poet, like the wife before her, another beautiful and gifted woman who fell in love with him, corresponding while he was still in prison, but gave up on him after his drinking created grief, chaos and endless expense. Like me, they probably all loved him after he was gone, but they got rid of him, because he was dangerous to them and himself.

Looking back at him, another damaged child with a terrible background, and me, who was hungry and bright but with no boundaries or any idea of what a good relationship looked like, I realized that I was luckier than I knew. Lucky that he wasn’t well and needed someone to take care of him. Lucky that, except for a brief scary period, we made enough money writing that he didn’t go back to dealing or trying to turn me out. Lucky that he was probably more kind than he would have been under other circumstances, and that I had the opportunity to see the best more than the worst of him. Lucky that I came out of it with a way to support myself so I didn’t have to submit to the next “rescuer” that came along.

Like the situation with the man who couldn’t be what I wanted him to be, this was a confluence of circumstances. If I hadn’t been so hungry, I wouldn’t have seen him as I did. Nor loved him and mourned him as the soul mate whose good influence stays with me to this day. If he hadn’t been too broke to escape from Albany, I never would have met him. If either of us had more resources, it never would have happened. But I was lucky. He was what I needed him to be, and I was that for him.

Who is under those sacks of cement?

Writers treasure people’s peculiarities. Stories would be boring without them. But, to write well, it is also necessary to dig under the stereotypes of good and evil. My husband’s story didn’t begin with prison, or the dope-dealing or pimping. I knew a few things about his early life, but in retrospect I know more from just seeing how he responded to trauma. He refused to be broken. It was something I loved about him, but it also spoke of entrenched habits of trying to ignore or bury pain. We had this in common.

We thought we were brave, but I’ve come to think it’s braver to face the truth. Which, in our case, was a dance of the walking wounded. Facing truth can take romance out of a story, but facts may be more nourishing. Truth may lead to spontaneous forgiveness, as I forgave my old boyfriend and my mother. It also can show us that we did the best we could. We see the burdens we are carrying and the innocent and good soul who is trying to bear them.

Blaming ourselves is a function of anger. Realizing that we are not perfect, that we live with handicaps, is part of grieving and letting go. Facing it doesn’t mean we give up trying to heal. And forgiveness has nothing to do, ultimately, with the people we are forgiving. It is a choice of what we want to care about, what burdens we decide not to carry. Being mad at a sociopath for being a sociopath and exploiting or hurting us is like hating the sun for shining and giving us sunburn. Facing reality empowers us to deal with it. Wear sunscreen. Trust conditionally.

The best reason to invest in healing from unresolved trauma is because it is crippling. It blocks our ability to mature through experience. It constricts personality structure with fear-based blinders and self-limiting rules that should only be interim strategies, rough protections until we see through what happened. The more we understand the confluence of events, most of which had nothing to do with us, the more trauma tends to lose its glamour and terror. It becomes simply a variety of human experience that we integrate into our knowledge of the world. When we stop mistaking a snake for a goose, because we now know that snakes exist, life becomes that much easier, safer and richer.

In the next piece, we will talk more about the relationship of fear and forgiveness. Until then

Namaste, the unchangeably innocent spirit in me salutes the unchangeably innocent spirit in you.


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179 Comments on "After the sociopath: How do we heal? Part 9 – Returning to Wounded Innocence"

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Hi Kathleen
I dont comment on the site often, but I follow your articles religiously. They act as milestones along the path of sequential healing for me.
What I see more of now is that it is not only healing from the psychopath, but dealing with all the periferal relationships around it, that were a supporting structure of it. And the anger towards those who helped make it what it was, even though they are not themselves disordered. It makes me angry that no-one seems to have the strength, or the insight, to offer the help that is needed, and when it is needed. They cant even listen.
And so, you are on your own. Yes, eventually, you work things out. Years go by, and slowly you heal your life. But those failures endure.
I can see how a series of abandonments led up to me wanting a sort of redemption. And the N recognised this, and pretended to be it. I had bad luck, and he was a frog. But I did what we all did, and hung on as if my life depended on it, suffering all the hurt and degradation that goes with it.
Now he is gone. And rather than wanting redemption, I value other things. Healthier things.
I look back on those abandonments that conditioned me, that prepared me for him, and that made him possible, and I am enormously disappointed. These relationships are still there – parents, siblings, friends. I look at these relationships with very reduced expectations, and with reduced affection. Trust is conditional here too, not only with new partners.
So the N is the personification of emotional poverty. But that poverty is really systemic, much broader than him.
It really can be a heavy burdon healing from all of this. Looking at all your relationships in the harsh light of day.
I thank you for your sharing, and I thank you for the redemption you offer by sharing yourself. What I get from this site, and from you, is the kind of advice that I should have received from others much closer to me.

Dear kathy,

It is amazing to me that the “ignorant and wounded” young woman I was at 20 didn’t end up dead in a gutter somewhere or in prison for being with the “wrong person at the wrong time” as I too sought safety and security, validation and love.

I was fortunate to have had older, wiser, and caring friends in the form of more seasoned adults who steared me gently away from danger and into at least a semblence of a “normal” life which covered my festering wounds of emotinoal abandonment from my egg donor, and the physical, emotional and other abuse suffered at the hands of my P-sperm donor. Luck? Good fortune? Yes.

And, like you so eloqently put it in your essay, I’ve been reopening those memories and looking at them from a different perspective as I healed, forgave them, forgave myself, and moved closer to the city limits of Healing.

Last night I stayed on the phone til 3 a.m. with a friend who was telling me she had diagnosed herself as “Histrionic Cluster C”—I laughingly assured her that my professional opinon was that her “problem” was not that, but instead the anxiety, pain and depression (she had stopped taking her anti-depresant medication) from her yearly years of sexual abuse from both her parents AND her siblings and their friends, from the massive abuse of a mother who viewed her as a possession whose sole duty was to take care of “Mommie dearest” who IS a psychopathic abuser….my friend’s reaction to her early sexual, physical and emotional abuse was to live a chotic and miserable life, looking “for love in all the wrong places” until she eventually ended up with a viiolent and abusvie psychopath that she finally escaped from.

Now, my friend, like you, and like I, is examining her past memories in the BRIGHT LIGHT OF DAY, instead of sweeping these under the rug of fantasy.

She is a sweet, caring and wonderful person, who is still feeling her way along the road toward the city limits of Healing, and in my opinion, doing a damned fine job of it. I BOINKED her lovingly on the head with my cast iron skillet and told her to quit being so damned hard on herself, and to get back on her antidepressant medication and to stay on it! (She admits it makes her feel better and less depressed and anxious!) DUH!

Going through our own attics and basements and storage lockers for all these old memories I think is part of the clean out process and the healing process and the journey that we are all making here at LF.

You described your journey so well, thank you for sharing. (((hugs))))

Thanks Kathy,

I think I went PAST “histrionic” and went to HYSTERICAL in the middle of the worst of it and for a while afterwards. Actually, considering where my friend “started out” (a severely abused child from the “Poster family for abuse”) I think she has made a remarkably “fast” journey toward the city limits of Healing. She is maintaining a job she enjoys, keeping her home nice, visiting with family and GOOD friends, but still a bit lonely I think, and like all of us I guess, wants a GOOD relationship with someone, but there’s no one in sight. At least though, she is no longer taken in by the first P that flashes a smile at her.

Depression sometimes puts a black pall over everything, and I think that is where she is as far as the depression. It also distorts your thinking, making you feel “helpless” to help yourself. Making you feel “hopeless.” Makes decision making very difficult as well. The antidepressant medications (unlike tranqualizers) don’t make you not care about your problems, or make you euphoric, but they bring your cranial chemicals back to the base line “normal” so it is easier to process your emotions AND your logical thoughts without the overriding dark emotions distorting it all.

Plus, there is actually some permanent chemical changes done to our brains by the severe trauma, some of which are permanent according to some of the research.

Like the article Liane wrote about the “defeated mouse.” I have seen the same thing in abused dogs, that totally “defeated” mind set. It takes a lot to get it out of humans or animals once they have been ground into the muck so deep and for so long, and so traumatically. Been in that black abyss and have the tee shirt, or two or three! Humans or animals just get to a point that they “give up” and don’t even try to get up, because they have always been abused by everyone and defeated. Their trust in themselves to succeed is gone.

My grandfather who was somewhat of a horse whisperer taught me about this when I was learning from him to train horses. A “balky” animal is one that refuses to pull and just hunkers down and takes their whipping, not resisting much, because they feel it is inevitible, and they will not even try to pull the wagon. It is because the animal was repeatedly hooked to a wagon or plow that was way too heavy for them to pull, and try as they might, they were unsuccessful, and then they were beaten because they were unsuccessful as hard as they tried.

They come to think that they are UNABLE to pull ANY wagon or plow and that they will always fail, and that they might as well not even try, as they are going to fail AND get a beating as well.

There is a way to get this out of the horse’s head, but first you must know what CAUSED the horse to think like this, in order to over come it. Beating them more will NOT solve the problem, but instead, convinces them that they cannot pull it over and over again.

There are other times when a horse’s behavior is definat that a few sharp slaps will get them “motivated,” but again, you must know what the animal is thinking and apply the correct training to the situation.

I have seen the same thing in bosses “whipping” employees that were at first very willing and tried very hard to do their jobs, but becasuse the job assigned was IMPOSSIBLE to do under the circumstances, the boss would “whip” the employee to try to make them work harder and eventually the employee would “balk” just like the horse and just expect to be “beaten” by the boss. Some employees will hunker down and take it, and others will just walk away.

I was “beaten” by a psychopathic boss once, and I found out later she had done the same thing to everyone in the office to show her power. Others just took it and walked on egg shells around her, expecting a periodic beating for “no apparent reason,” but I resigned, which totally suprised the boss. first, because I COULD easily get another job, and secondly because I would NOT stand for an unjust and arbitrary beating even if I had no job prospects in the offing.

Just as the horse can be taught “learned helplessness” so can we humans, by repeated abusive treatment and “beatings” (physical OR emotional) to where we won’t try. Gettin gout of THAT stage is difficult, and once we have realized we are NOT helpless victims, then we CAN take back our power and process the past, and look forward to the future with hope, REAL hope!

Thanks again for sharing your wonderful article.! (((hugs))))

Kathy: Thank you for your personal courage, digging deeply within yourself to come up with these insights, and then being so generous as to share with us.

I’ve been unpacking my own trunk of memories, and re-examining the mythology. You describe it well.

“I could see how it all came together. Without thinking about the word, I forgave my boyfriend and my mother. Instead of being angry, I mourned for myself, that young girl with no one but herself to depend on. It could have been different. But it was what it was. She had to move on, wounded but with no time or place to heal. She would create a life that reflected the reality of those unhealed wounds. And in understanding this, I forgave myself too. I stopped thinking I was stupid or selfish or incompetent or lazy or anything else. I was someone who lacked the resources that a lot of people took for granted, and I did the best I could.”

Thank you for putting this into words. I’m doing the best I can.

“Namaste, the unchangeably innocent spirit in me salutes the unchangeably innocent spirit in you.”

Quote of the day from kathy:
And forgiveness has nothing to do, ultimately, with the people we are forgiving. It is a choice of what we want to care about, what burdens we decide not to carry. Being mad at a sociopath for being a sociopath and exploiting or hurting us is like hating the sun for shining and giving us sunburn. Facing reality empowers us to deal with it. Wear sunscreen. Trust conditionally.

Kathy: Thanks for another great article! I was especially struck with the part “The best reason to invest in healing from unresolved trauma is because it is crippling. It blocks our ability to mature through experience.” Really sums up my life thus far, I never matured through experience, thanks for your help!

Kathleen, Once again, a timely blessing in prose. Needed to hear that. All of that. Can’t even limit it to a quote or two. I feel so stuck and so powerless at the moment like I’m waiting for the hangman’s noose and the floor to drop out. Once again, the victimizer has the power, and I can only pray for an enlightened judge and victory come court on Tuesday. I did get up and out of town this weekend to see family and friends. Debated it and decided that pity party in the fetal position was not how I wanted to spend my weekend off. I find myself unable to work the past few shifts that I have been scheduled due to the elevated heart rate, the nasty effects of my new beta blocker which only makes me feel like lead and dread, and the inability to quiet my mind and my fear that he will succeed in taking my nursing license from me with his lies. But tomorrow I see my doctor again and will explain my stress and my fears and hope for new meds and new insights. Thank you for sharing yourself and your wisdom as I find hope and healing potential in all you share.

You are a courageous soul to share on such a deep level of intimacy with us who are on the path of happy destiny. My journey has been unique to me, as have all of ours. It seems hard to fathom that it has been nearly 2 months since I removed myself from the P. Now I understand those who say that the bondage was just removed. It is finally behind me, and when I occassionally think of my time with him, it seems as if it was in another lifetime. I have ME back. I no longer hate him, as I realize that is a waste of my time and energy, and I’ve already devoted too much time to that. I really feel I have been placed in a place of neutrality, and am now in therapy (EMDR), working on the issues that were buried under the relationship with the P. There are no words to express my gratitude to all of you who were of utmost help in the early days and weeks. God Bless You All.

Housie: Is that your picture I see on the poster promoting Lovefraud?

You look “maaahvelous!!”

You must have stacked up some great “karma” to be moving so quickly. Thanks for the encouragement to those of us who keep having recurring thoughts and general feelings of “stuckness.”

Joy: Keep breathing and hold your intention that you will move smoothly through this. Take your focus off of his lies, and focus on your truth.

I feel for you. Stay centered, and keep your focus on your clear, bright future.

Kathy – Your comment about the damage caused by your father and how your damage burdened others, really hit’s home with me. Thank you for sharing your life with us, your articles are the best therapy for me…….Oxy – Your friend that you spoke with is very fortunate to have you in her life..you are special to me and to her………..

Henry, Oxy, Kathy, and the whole gang: I am regularly amazed at how we help each other move forward. We tell our stories, whine a bit, share insights, and then one or several or a bunch of us take a giant step forward in our own personal evolutions.

This is a very special place, and we are blessed by the angels who show up — those we recognize, and those who silently encourage us toward our growth and healing.

Thank you again, Kathy. As you bare your soul, you help us grow as well.

Precious Rune,
Don’t know of any pics of me floating around – perhaps it will help to share that I was married to the P for 24 years, and then remained in the “trauma bond”, which for me was an addiction worse than Heroin must be. For the next 18 years, even through another marriage, I could not be free from this man. I thought of him every day, and continued to feel as if I would die without him. I begged God to take what I thought was love away from me. I remember one night curling up on the couch and just feeling the withdrawal so deeply I thought it would devour me for hours. My soul felt as if it were bleeding. I got back with the P for 4 months when after my second divorce, my daughter invited both her dad (the P) and I to her home for Thanksgiving.During this period of time I experienced a multitude of red flags. I journaled about them. I remembered when I went to Wellspring (an inpatient tx center for recovery from cults (we were in one together for 16 years) and abusive relationships, I was told that my ex was a P. I understood it in my head. but remained in denial for 13 years. I can’t explain what really happened to me a few months ago, but all I know is that one day I was with him, continuing to have doubts, and the next day when he called and was telling me he got sick on a cupcake he had eaten, I interrupted him and told him that “this isn’t working for me”. It was over and I could feel it completely finished. For the next three weeks I was a mess of emotions. That is when I found LoveFraud and all of the wonderful support. I have felt complete release from this 42 year nightmare. For me, I believe God just took it from me. It is as over for me as when I left the cult and decided to never go back, and I didn’t. I know the feeling that I am finished. He feels like someone I knew once. When I have memories of us being together, it feels like the memories are there, but the trauma associated with it is gone. I share all of this to encourage and give hope to those still suffering in the grip of a trauma bond. There is light at the end of the tunnel, and I believe that we cant see til we can see, and we cant hear til we can hear. Trust the Process, stay connected to LoveFraud where we are sincere and caring people that have been there and can share our experience, strength and hope, and never give up. Blessings

Wish I could be as advanced along as Housie..two months and she has moved on completely..WOW! I still hate mine.

Kathy’s post was awesome. I copied the same line as Tilly, “Being mad at a sociopath for being a sociopath and exploiting or hurting us is like hating the sun for shining and giving us sunburn.”

Was trying to think of mine as a tortoise. My tortoise does not have the emotions of my dogs, he can’t give me that love and it’s not his fault. He’s a tortoise. He needs his light put on and his food put out, that’s all. He does not need his belly rubbed or his ears scratched. Not his fault.

But, like Tilly, I’m just not there. The years he took from me, my highest earning years, the retirement I’ll never have now that the economy is like the 30’s, I just can’t forgive.

They are not insane. We all know that. They make choices based on their own selfish needs. How difficult would it be, were one to discover that he is an S/P, to just think about what he is doing to others and abstain, even if he does not really care on an emotional level? Abstain because we all need to live together on this planet and leaving a wake or broken lives and empty wallets is just bad karma?

Mine once said to me, “whatever you ask me, I will always say the right thing.” So he knows what the right thing is, but chooses not to do it, can’t help himself or does not want to.

Isn’t that what prisons were built for?

I may be unusual, in that my sociopath relative is my 45 year old daughter, Deborah. I didnt realise till fairly recently, that she is narcissistic/borderline sociopath. I divorced her dad, peter, an alcoholic, in 1983, and remarried my present wonderful husband, david, in 1984. I am 70 years old now, and have decided enough is enough. I have allowed false guilt to let her con me into giving her literally thousands and thousands of dollars over the last 27 years. The things she has done to me include,-throwing a red hot steam iron at my head, narowly missing me, when she was 17. having a drunken party in my home, when her dad and I were on a weeks holiday together, trying to patch up out marriage. The house was totally trashed, and my Art studio wrecked, my paintings painted over or smashed, valuable art books ruined, swastikas painted on all the walls, furniture smashed and thrown in the pool. She wrecked the small bedsit that david and I found and furnished for her, and did a runner from it. She has conned me out of thousands of dollars,lied and cheated me, banned me from her wedding,but invited my husband,I could go on and on. She has never ONCE apologised for any of the truly rotten things she has done to me. She only ever rings me up if she wants something. her poor husband has had enough, they have been separated for 3 years.I hardly ever get to see the three lovely kids, now 14, 11, and 8 years old. They stay week about with each parent. I really only keep up with my daughter in order to have some contact with the kids, whom I love very much. Do I still love her? I suppose I do, but I dislike her very much.
My problem up to now has been to always give in when she cries on the phone. I wrote to her 2 weeks ago to say the “MUM ” bank is now closed. Since then, I havent heard from her, and she has removed me from her facebook “friends”. How childish! I hope I can stay firm, and not give in. I never, ever, get as much as a card on Mothers day, or Birthdays! geminigirl

Geminigirl: You aren’t “unusual” — the sociopaths come from families that are often just as tormented as the spouses and “significant others” who are most of the people who show up here. As painful as it is to realize this about your daughter, I can understand that it helps you to have this information rather than continue to wonder “why?”

Dr. Liane Leedom has some great articles, and she has written about what research shows about “causes” of sociopathy. In case you are wondering, your daughter’s parenting in her early years is not as great a factor in her development as you might fear. Genetics weigh heavily in whether a person becomes highly sociopathic or psychopathic.

Lovefraud is a wonderful, supportive community. You might also find more information that would help you if you go to http://www.aftermath-surviving-psychopathy.org.

Welcome to Lovefraud. Your son-in-law might also find some benefit here as well. I am certain that his heart has been traumatized through all this as well. And, no, it is not your fault.

Housie: What an amazing story you tell. You truly have worked through so much so quickly — but, then again, you’ve also been working on this for decades . . .

I am curious about Wellspring. I had heard about it for cult deprogramming, and I understood that their therapeutic approach could help people who were recovering from personal relationships with S/Ps as well. Can you share any insights from there?

Kathy, thanks for sharing your story so honestly. I think you are very hard on yourself, though, when you compare what you did to what the sociopath did. The key difference is the willingness to exploit someone regardless of the impact on that person.

My S/P/N once accused me of having seduced him, rather than the other way around. Even though that was pure projection, for a bit, I bought it. But then I realized, NO, seduction is high warmth with LOW intentions. I never had LOW intentions towards him, I would have never deliberately, crushingly hurt him. Whereas his high warmth was for the purpose of exploiting me, and if I got hurt, reduced to a fetal position, he absolutely did not care. Incapable of remorse. Big difference.

Dear Geminigirl, I have a 38 year old psychopathic son, who is in prison for murder, and when I cut him off (finally!!!) He tried to have me killed to inherit from me and our family.

sigh, and I DO NOT love him any longer, he is “dead” to me, just as if he had stopped breathing. He has been in prison most of his live and has no children (thank God!) I am 62 and have recently become WHOLE myself. Take care of YOURSELF, believe me, I am so much better off because i have no contact with my psychopathic son. I’m glad you closed the MUM bank, but i don’t doubt that she will use her children as collateral to try to get a “loan”—

I definitely know how you feel on that one, giving birth to “Rosemary’s Baby” is not an easy lot in life. ((((hugs)))) and my prayers for you.

I can’t minimize what P/S/N’s do as “unhelpful”. My rape as a 12 year old was much more than unhelpful. And what happened to you was much more than unhelpful I think ! I guess I understand the point, but for me, minimizing what a S does was a big part of the problem in my life and a big part of the problem in society. I had to recognize abuse as abuse.

But I do agree that minimizing the S AFTER they are gone is good! And essential. And feeling strong against them in the future is good too. And you are writing about a step 9. What is useful then is not always useful in the beginning.

I used to believe in what you call a “God spark” but now I truly believe that science is showing us that S are literally brain damaged…and thus far as unfixable as those with Down’s syndrome who are brain damaged also. I suppose an S can accidentally do some good, but the damage they do far outweighs that. (I used to teach Down’s syndrome children and mean no disrespect.)

I wish the S had the distinguishing features that Down’s syndrome causes. They needed to be recognizable….that would so cut down on the damage they do.


I agree….education and awareness is KEY to exposing the behaviors so ‘society’ can recognize them.
The role we play in educating and raising awareness is individual, but none less important.
Unfortunately, from what I have lived…..people just don’t ‘get it’ until THEY have been a victim. (And they are aware they have been duped).
So……peoples own unwillingness, denial or natural ‘instict’ to believe ‘all people are good’ is societies own worst enemy!!!
I have 3 great friends that ‘got it’…….right off the bat. But they were subject to the S’s antics and witnessed them first hand. They all were able to relate ‘my’ experiences with their own lives and happenings with people in them.
Other people ‘see’ him for a scum/lier…..but don’t ‘get it’.
There is a difference between not liking and S and ‘getting it’.
Once you ‘get it’…..you see ALL the behaviors.
I don’t know exactly why these 3 people got it……but I THANK GOD they did…..because the support and protection they have offered us has been a huge, vital asset in going through hell. THey stood by and held hoses to cool me off. They brought tissues, always had their hearts open for me, looked out for us, and were ALWAYS available to listen and ‘counsel’ me. etc…..
I really think I would have cracked without THIS ‘got it’ kind of support.
Oh, don’t think the S didn’t attack this support system……he did. The key for me, was he wasn’t successful with THEM.
I, periodically ask myself WHY I am not ‘fetal in the corner’. I really should be.
My therapist say’s it’s a choice.
I didn’t feel, when I was at my lowest, that ANY emotion was a CHOICE. Some days I became paralyzed, morphed into the recliner and just ‘was’. After a few of those days/weeks….I could recognize the feelings coming on and ‘braced’ myself to just give in to it. Allow it, go with it. I set a time frame for myself to do it…..then I got up and got angry and moved into action!
My way of keeping myself away from the ‘fetal corner’, was to stand up, be extremely vocal, take care of myself, protect my kids, regain my health and FIGHT LIKE HELL to shut the S’s avenues down legally!!!
I mustered up any energy I could (some days I had/have none), but I keep strong! I WILL NOT BE DESTROYED BY SCUM!!!! I WILL NOT, I WILL NOT, I WILL NOT!!!!!
I- WILL- NOT!!!!!!!!!!
I have learned, over 3 decades, that everything does work out for the best……
I just have to look at my life NOW. I’m wounded, but I am healing…..he was unsuccessful at taking me down. I have ‘avenues’ to help me financially recover, my health is GREAT!!! I AM A SURVIVOR!!!!
Cancer was easy…..strokes were easy……A Sociopath during all of it could have been MURDER!!!! But I chose to hold the weapon through it all.
I look at how things turned out for me and the kids, I look at the doors opening for me, the doors I am able to PRY open.
I have always had a certain tenacity…..but now it’s just soooo much stronger and bolder. I have come close to death, losing it all…….and I fought for myself, my kids, my life, my ‘things’.
I have removed many fears from my life…..I roll with the punches, I don’t react immediately…..but I stand up for my rights. I handle things much differently now. Way more productive and effective.
I make good decisions, work hard, direct my life and what comes from this will ‘be’.
I feel that I kept the blinders on for way too long…..I REFUSE to keep secrets for him. I owe him NOTHING. I will expose him and narcissistically injure him. I am NOT afraid of him……..Quite the contrary….He should look out for ME now.
This is the point I must make……..I will not lay down for anyone.
If he goes away and stays away, out of our lives completely…..I will let up. The minute I get wind of any threats or abuse by proxy……it’s reported to authorities. His own behaviors have gained attention for himself…..I will not keep it to myself….I will not allow him to dictate HOW I live, where I live, who I live with. Who I choose to be friends with, who chooses to employ me……My life will not be run by a S!!!
I spent my life showing compassion and empathy for him and was abused to no end!!!
NOW…..it’s FU. I will give my compassion and empathy to humans that deserve it……Mr. S…. YOU ARE NOT HUMAN!!!!
You are a snail, and NOW I HOLD THE SALT!!!!
I take any opportunity to educate people about these behaviors. I have approached the judiciary, neighbors, therapists, the newspaper, media outlets……..I believe in awareness to avoid the devastation.
EDUCATE, RAISE AWARENESS and educate again!!!!
We, as survivors, have the opportunity to do this.

Erin and Kathy, You inspire me. I have gone on a mission to expose the Sp for what he is in the last week. I took his criminal record to the Magistrate, the chief of police in our town. Not the county cops as he has them all snowed. And lastly to the domestic violence shelter. To them I stated that they do great work for true victims but that he had used them and fooled them into believing a lie. I told them this info was for the next woman to walk through the door that there would be a next woman and that had I had that info available to me 5 years ago when their counselor encouraged me to press charges when he assaulted me instead of feeling regret at the damage it would do to the life he was trying to rebuild that I would not be in the position that I’m now in. This was not about revenge. This was to enlighten my community about the wolf in our midst parading in sheep’s clothing throughout our town and wrecking havoc everywhere to all who do not bow to his will. I just really want people to SEE him and then judge him accordingly. It is his ability to reinvent himself as this awesome dad, great employee, pillar of society that I find nauseating. I had been crying until I read the last few posts and now though scared to my core and feeling quite ill, I will channel your power and support tomorrow. I will mentally plug myself into all the prayers and all the positive thoughts that the good people in the universe are sending my way. I will feel the hands of the community of victims holding mine. I will hold my head up high for all that I am guilty of is loving the wrong person for too long. That is all. There is no shame in that. Maybe some stupidity:) but no shame and no crime. I am claiming the victory. Regardless, I come out of this loved by others and valued as a cherished member of the community of GOOD PEOPLE. That is all that is required of us that we leave a place in this world a little better than we found it. That we pay our Earth Rent for the time that we reside here. Namaste! My friends the humble servant of the Almighty in me salutes the servant’s heart in all of you. Towanda! I claim the victory regardless of the outcome!

I hope you get this prior to court….not sure where you are in the country/world….
But, I am proud of you…..PROUD that YOU stand up for what is right. PROUD that you are a beautiful woman that is taking a ‘beating’ and still walking tall. PROUD that you are aware of humanity and doing something for others, in spite of the judgement of you.
YOU WILL DO FINE!!!! I feel this in my heart.
Keep your thoughts as they are, go into court tomorrow and bury the bastard. But do it in your graceful, beautiful and informed way!!!!
You will have us with you, I am sending my mojo direct!!!!
You have a great outlook, this will take you FAR!!!!!
Will be waiting to hear………

Dear Rune, dear Oxdrover,
Thank you so much for your helpful comments and good wishes. I am a newcomer on this site,which I found by “accident”. It has taken me many many years to get to this point, and I think one of the hardest things to acknowledge is that Narcissistic Psycho or sociopaths NEVER change. For years, I was in denial, thinking, maybe shell get better, more loving, kinder, will start to appreciate me, one day she’ll say :Sorry Mum”, I can forgive her, and move on. There is never any closure, as she and her sister see me as the crazy , selfish one, apparently!I suppose I kept on giving and giving,{usually money}, hoping for change, hoping for a miracle, I saw this as the only “bait’ I had to get to see my grandkids. Now that her separated husband has the kids week about, Im not so concerned as I know he will bring them to see me when he can.I think the single worst thing she did was to ban me from her wedding to Kevin in 1994, but she sent my husband an invitation.It nearly killed me. {Of course, he didnt go!} her husband has told me he never used to believe the terrible things she did to me, but now he does, as he knows first hand what a manipulative liar and con artist she is! So as I said, Ive had to finally give up the belief that she will ever change. Its better if I dont see her, she is highly toxic to me, I cant stand her, but still love her, if that makes any sense ! Thanks again, Maia.{geminigirl}

Bless you……the heartbreak is unmeasurable I am sure.
I am glad you are here……you will learn so much and we will all add a bit to your evolution and education, as you do to ours.
I dont think any of us land up here by ‘accident’. 🙂
We are guided here~
No, closure…..probably not……just evolving into a fading period. WE all have so many questions along with the loss of our ‘fantasies’ of what we thought we had in the relationship. Our memories of what we remember as ‘good times’ are now questioned by us. Almost like we have 2 pasts. How we remembered it and how we now know the reality was.
Stay strong, keep your head high, keep educating yourself and allow yourself to progress through the grieving process.
I know for me NC was the only way I could escape the ex S.
I know he would have duped me into taking him back as he had done for 3 decades!!!
I really believe in the NC rule for the healing to be allowed to begin. the more time and distance you place between the S and yourself the more clarity you gain. You remove the constant guilt and mindgame you play on yourself…..doubting yourself, ‘is it me’ questions……
No…..they do not ever change…….ever!
I am sorry for your situation, you didn’t ask for this, you didn’t plan for this……BUT this is what you got handed…….
Love yourself and be good to yourself. THAT”S # 1.

Kathleen –

I am humbled by your awesome posts. Reading your work, I feel silly even mentioning a 5 figure tax deduction or a report to the authorities. It’s not about that. I need to let go, but I’m having trouble with the “insult to injury” of having to pay taxes on what he swindled me out of because he won’t respond. It’s like a fire, catastrophic loss, need to check on it but I’m pretty sure I’m right.

Now I know it’s deeper than that. Something inside of me needs him to say “I’m sorry” but I know he never will.

Beginning to take stock in what is left. Spent the day with a friend I had not spent time with for a few years, I treasure her. I have friends here in town, and making new ones every day. As the national situation gets more scary, neighbors get closer. Rode my horse all the way to town over the weekend. Killed my back, but what a wonderful ride! I needed to know that if there is no gas, I can get to court on my horse. Silly, maybe, maybe not.

Living alone, as someone said in another thread, is so much better than living with the S/P. An evening alone with my dogs, a good suspense novel, is a good thing. No crazy phone calls or texts. Peace. Thank you.

A reliable client in this awful downturn. Now earning in a month what I did in a week, but at least the bills sort of get paid. Not leaving my own bills unpaid to pay HIS rent, HIS debt, HIS “if I don’t pay XX back they are going to the authorities”.

“We are entitled to fight for ourselves. We are entitled to kick bad people out of our lives and to arrange our lives for our benefit first, before anyone else.”

He is out of my life. Period. As is “Jane” — I’m sure by now they have reconciled. My question/issue is do I go to the authorities and have him sent back to prison? With the info she gave me I have him on mail and wire fraud. Should I do it or just eat the loss? I know this is banal compared to your post, but it’s burning me up.

Erin, “I will not lay down for anyone.” Do I let it go or proceed? Send him to prison so that I can deduct what he swindled from me? He made me pay off two people because they were threatening “to go to the authorities” — why don’t I deserve to be in that column??

Midnight here, in the land or gorgeous sunsets over high mountain desert. I am home. It will work out somehow.


Everything you wrote is correct….you are out, you are safe….you have peace!!!!
Boy, isn’t the peace WONDERFUL!!! That was the first thing my kids said after the S departed. “wow Mom, it’s so peaceful’. Sad huh, what we forget, give up etc….
We have to look at all the positives of our ‘getting out’. It’s all positive.
Now on to your question of “do I proceed”?.
Oh, yes, you so deserve to be in that column…….Your gut’s saying go for it.
I would listen to the gut. DO NOT SECOND guess yourself.
That’s whats burning you up…….he’s still making you crazy.
With this economy…..hey, you may need the deduction for the next several years.
PLACE yourself in that column and put the bastard in a quandry……LET HIM FIGURE IT OUT!!!!
It will all work out….the clock doesn’t stop for any of us…..
Enjoy the sunsets……yes, and they are the best in the land!!!!

…. did you get my message through Donna today?

Hi Erin, I’m still up, and no, have not dared email today. Got on at 6 but left at 8 and did not want to face it. Sometimes email is daunting.

A friend said it’s like coming home and finding 70 people in your kitchen.

I need to figure out who to make the report to, the local FBI, his PO, I’ll decide tomorrow. You are right, something inside is saying to do this, I defended him for way too long, and I need to get on with it. No threats. Just do it.

I’ll look for you . . . BRB

Erin –

I got Donna’s note, look forward to hearing from you! Time for bed, thanks for all.

Erin, I got it prior to court. It was just the lift that I needed and I love you for it. I will post as soon as there is word. I’m in the US eastern time zone. Nashville, NC so that mojo knows where to find me. LOL! Thanks!

I read your story (only had time to read the first part) with tears in my eyes, and I resonate with so much of your experience. I will return and read more later. The timing of this article couldn’t be more fitting, as I am going to meet up with an old boyfriend of 26 years ago tomorrow night who has flown in for a conference. The healing work seems so painful but so necessary, doesn’t it?


Just logged on and saw you were going to court. Good luck. I hope you blow the bastard so far out of the water people will think he’s a comet orbiting the earth.

I can’t remember who the Supreme Court justice was who said “sunlight is the best disinfectant.” Exposing these creatures for all the world to see is really a good dose of sunlight. You did the right thing distributing certified copies of his arrest record.


You may remember my P/S/N was my first love in high school. Reunited after 40 years. BE CAREFUL. He is from your past when you didn’t yet (I’m guessing) know about the red flags to watch for.

Also, the brain can react to memories as though they are happening now, especially when triggered, so instead of having PTSD with him, you might have “I’m in love again syndrome”, where those old feelings and hormones flood you before you have a chance to let red flags register.

In the case of my S, he really had NOT changed. I just didn’t realize what his behaviors meant the first time around, when I was 15, and I fell back in love almost instantly, and then I was sunk. Plus back then intercourse was not involved so I didn’t have a chance to find out how totally weird he was!

I’m sure you know all this stuff, it is just that I got hurt SO BAD, took me more than 2 years to recover from just being with him 4 times, and I SO don’t want to see you get hurt.

Here is an article about reuniting with past loves.


GEEZ! Can I EVER post without a PS? Apparently not! Just wanted to add that it took me a year to get over him at 15. I was knee deep in his pathology even back then, but I thought I just wasn’t good enough for him. I was wiser at 19 (I figured if he dumped me once, he would dump me again, and I had a feeling his ethics were “off”….but I didn’t have a clue HOW off) and throughout the rest of my life when he kept trying to hook up. I refused to take his calls, etc. Then, after 40 years of trying, he finally hit me at a low point. And I was not prepared for the flood of hormones and brain chemicals from when I was 15 to hit me. He’s also a mega-millionaire now so that didn’t help matters, it made me think he must be a good upstanding citizen….I am now more inclined to think the opposite about wealthy people, esp. if they aren’t active in philanthrophy, which of course he is not.

I just had a girlfriend go through the same thing with an old boyfriend…he turned out to be very cruel and I saw her getting hooked again and so I kept at her with the truth, risking our friendship, but she seems to have come out of the fog now.


Will you tell us how it goes with the boyfriend from 26 years ago? All the juicy details and everything? I LOVE this stuff.
I am such a hopeless romantic, it is pathetic.

I got caught when I was 13. Same scenario….not good enough, I viewed him as my protector, he spent money on me, which no one in my life ever did……My family was financially okay, just not gift givers or eater outers etc…. We maybe would ride our bikes and go for ice cream once a year.
He flooded me with diamonds, clothing, fancy cars to ride in, trips (GOD knows how my parents let me go out with him????I was 13, he was 19).
Oh yes, there were plenty of RED FLAGS.
Yesterday I had a memory jogged (someone here mentioned their S shaved her head) of when we went to a family gathering (my family)…..out in the country……he drove the Mercedes, as we got close to my family’s home, he went down a dirt road and and pulled off next to a creek,……we kissed and cuddled, then he pulled out a razor and insisted on shaving my pubic area. I was horified, BUT…. I didnt say a word…….I felt I had to please. OMG…..dry shaving pubic hair????? WTF???? Of coarse, he said it made me look so young……WTF, I WAS YOUNG ( I was maybe 15/16). Then he proceeded to have sex with me in the country by the creek. I was so humiliated, the pain and itching was horrendous……I thought it would never grow back.
Sorry…..tangent there……
I think of all the stories I hear now, about him and 13 year old females…….13 seems to be his age.
It scares the shit out of me, because his wealthy bromance ‘friend’ that has helped him hide money etc….has a daughter around 13!!! That the S has complete access to!!! OMG! OMG!!! But, ofcoarse, I am portrayed in some freakish light, so his daughter will be the sacrafice. I have planted seeds, but I know I can’t do much more…….
We look back at things that should have been so obvoius, but we have to look at OUR circumstances and mindset, emotions, maturity etc…at the time we are hooked.
I was needy, looking for a protector, the ‘niceties’ that he showered me with hooked me, we all have a dream of being cinderella……..Mostly when we look for that ending we end up being the step sisters anyways!
My Ex S was so not philanthropic……I would donate $$ or time, or items to charity and he would GO BALISTIC! He would say….none of them would help us. I was always boggled by this response, as we have been given great opportunities and luck and I am of the mindset of ‘giving back’. One of the kids wanted to go to Mexico to build houses with a church group over spring break……it cost $600……He again, went apeshit……saying he would never PAY to do charity work…..I have to PAY to send YOU to help someone else? NOT A CHANCE. The child couldn’t go. I have never forgotten that. I was sending the same child this year…..so he could experience the gift of giving of himself….but unfortunately, the trip was cancelled due to tension in Mex.
We help out at the shelter, with animals, donate money, help vets ……so that lesson was not lost on the kids. I was in the hospital recently and this sickly looking lady came up to me and was freaking out about my sunglasses??? She asked if she could try them on, she said she would LOVE to be able to afford glasses like that……They were ONLY $5.00. I usually buy sunglasses several pairs at a time, if I like them……My name got called and she was still going on and on about them…..As I left, I went up to her and she asked if she could try them on again…..I told her it would be my pleasure and I wanted her to have them, it would give me great joy to know how much she would enjoy wearing them, and beside, they looked so much better on her than me!!!!!
We left the hospital and I didn’t say a word……later that night my kids comented on my gesture. They said that was so cool of me to do that. I am so blessed that my kids see these things!!! In spite of their S father.
I know my influence has prevailed in them overall. THANK GOD!!!!!
It has taken me 3 decades to ‘get over’ him. I really do not ever remember what it felt like to love him. I am so engrained with YUCKY for him, I don’t have to fight the feeling of ‘ but I love him’. Maybe, because I have grieved for YEARS…..I knew it wasn’t right. I tried every which way and backwards to make it work. Show him the light…..show him what he had in us. Prove to him that I would NEVER abandon him ……like his family. I would be the ONE ROCK in his life. I was determined. Well now I know why he has been abandoned over and over by family and friends…….duhhhhhh…..BUT….. I am still determined to be his rock……only NOW I am the rock that fly’s through his windshield, the rock that hit’s him in the head and leaves HIM wondering WHAT HAPPENED???!!!!
My FOG has lifted……I’m only left with a slight ‘Marine layer’. 🙂


You just reminded me where I am.
I guess I am in the wrong place if I want “romance” stories, right?

Like I said, I am a hopeless romantic.
I don’t know how many times it will take for me, I really don’t.

Well…..here let me ‘fancy’ it up for ya……
You can look at it several ways, life is like a prism……
My ex S was so romantic (at times)…..he knew I loved nature, he knew I was a sucker for creeks, champagne……(YA FOLLOWING….wipe your drool)……he was participating in family gatherings with me (oh how that showed love)…..
NOW LET”S MAKE IT ALL ABOUT HIM!!!!!!! That’s the totally unromantic part of the story……HIM!!!! Let’s do a ‘grooming session 101′, get the sex on and then I will give HER what she wants. I will go to her event knowing I just had a perverted experience with your daughter, if you just take her pants down, you will see what SHE let me do to her……
I am sure if I think hard enough, I must have been leaving to go on a trip or something…..so he placed his
scarlet letter’ on me to keep me ‘honest’. ( I NEVER cheated on him …..EVER) But the projections were always there……even from when I was a kid!!!!
SO ROSA…..I’m gonna keep my Fancy, pointed French Stellettos up your ass……
Romance is out there……but not in the ‘general hospital’ type way……if your looking for that……you’ll end up in the soaps!!!!

Oh yeah…..and stay away from creeks!!



You are the PERFECT one to keep me “grounded”, Erin.
Stay away from creeks…..and men who carry razors, right???
Got it.

P.S. I think men who shave in their underwear is so cute and sexy.

Now you have traumatized me, and I am not sure if I will be able to look at them the same way again. 🙁 🙂

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