By | December 3, 2009 364 Comments

After the sociopath is gone: From grief to falling in love.

Every other week I participate in a ‘one word’ blog carnival. This week’s word was ‘grief’.

Grief. A tiny word. Five letters. ‘i’ before ‘e’. A story of precedence. What comes before grief? Love. Friendship. Familiarity. Hope. A belief in tomorrow. A belief in another day. A better day. A different time. A time for endless hello’s to fill our day with promise. A time to love.

And then death sweeps in and robs us of that time. That moment. Those endless hellos punctuated by good-byes that do not mean, never more, but rather, until later, until we meet again, until the next time.

In death’s embrace we fall and grieve for the one who was lost, for what was lost, for time lost and never to be recaptured.

In grief there is no next time. No better time. No later. Grief consumes all time and steals all hope of a better tomorrow.


When love ends, we grieve. We grieve the passing of what could have been, should have been, might have been, if only. We search for ways to give meaning to our pain, to explain the sometimes inexplicable causes leading to loves demise. Sometimes, we talk it out. We make arrangements on how to separate, how to divide loves spoils, how to survive loves loss. We draw up agreements, outline custody and visitation arrangements. We divvy up assets and liabilities, arrange for payment. We divorce and move on with our lives, sometimes poorer but always richer in experience.

When we have loved an abuser, love cannot die. Love never existed. There was no mutual agreement to love honestly, truthfully, respectfully. There was only the abuser’s mask hiding his or her intent to deceive. There was only the lie we did not know existed.

In love’s vanishing out the door slamming behind their last words, we hang our hopes on one more chance to say, ‘good-bye’. On one more time to see their face, hear their voice, be in the presence of the love we believed to be true.

In our grief we plead for one last time. We pray, he will return. We pray, he or she, the one we loved, will come back if only to give us a chance to secure the elusive closure our empty arms yearn for. We want to say good-bye on our terms. We want to have the last word, to make them hear us, see us, feel our pain, witness our anguish. We want to know they understand the harm their passing through our lives has caused. We want them to ‘see’ how much we love in the hopes that the one we loved, the one we believed to be true, will return. We want one more chance. One more time. One more good-bye.

And so we plead with time to give us this one last chance so that we can come to terms with their good-bye. So that we can steal the time to learn to grieve on our terms.

And that is the lie we tell time. Give us a chance and we will make them hear us, just this once, so we can grieve freely.

It never happens. It can’t. Because grieving an abuser is the greatest betrayal of all. In having loved a lie, we can never grieve what never was.

With our empty arms and broken dreams, we must give into grief and mourn for the one who was lost. The woman who was abused. The woman who was lost. The woman who fell. The woman who was betrayed and who betrayed herself. We must mourn for the one we must love the most. Ourselves.

Once upon a time I loved a man who was untrue. He never really existed, though I searched for him between the lines he spoke that were all lies. Between the pages of my journal where I wrote of love ever lasting and promises of happily-ever after. I searched for him in every nook and cranny of my mind, desperately trying to make real the unreal. To make sense of the nonsense that was his passing through my life. I searched and held onto the hope that the pain, the turmoil, the sorrow was all a lie and he would turn up and be true.

It never happened. It couldn’t. He was the lie.

And in my facing the truth of his deceit, I grieved. I grieved for the dream that could never be, the love that never was. I grieved for the woman who was abused. The woman who lost herself in the arms of an abuser. I grieved for the pain she endured, the pain she caused. I grieved and cried and wished and hoped and prayed upon every star that the pain would cease, the tears would dry up and my heart would be healed. I prayed for the past to be erased. The lies to be vanished. The horror to be undone.

Nothing can undo the past. There is nothing that can be changed in yesterday.

Grieving a love that never was is part of the illusion of loving an abuser. We look for meaning in our memories and come up empty.

On either side of grief is love.

Grieving for the woman who lost herself in the arms of an abuser, set me free to fall into the arms of love.

In grieving for all that was lost, all that was forgotten on the stormy waters of his lies, I embraced all that was possible when I set myself free to sail upon the sea of love that surrounds me, sustains me, and lifts me up.

Love has no limits. Love knows no bounds. Love is my answer.

Stand in love. Grow in love. Be love.

In mourning for the one who lost herself in the arms of a man who was untrue, I found myself. I found myself and fell in love with all that I can be when I set myself free to live this one wild and precious life free to be all I am when I let go of grief and fall… in love.

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Ox Drover

Dear Louise,

As always, your words flow, smoothly carrying me along like a canoe floating down stream on a placid creek. Thank you for your inspiring article. (((hugs)))


Today my S called again with the I don’t believe your letting this end like this. It took a ounce of energy out of me I’m at work and can barely hold my head up, I can barely pay attention to what’s going on around me, I don’t want to believe that this just him trying to gain power but in my gut I don’t trust him he’s done to many mean an hurtful things to me! I didn’t get a chance to ask him why did he do this, he told he left me because of he was dealing with financial problems, ok yeah right he’s living with another brode, I don’t know what this person want from me it nothing left to give him I’m broke as hell and my spirit is broken its nothing left of me to give.

Ox Drover

Dear Luv,

Sweetie, as long as you listen to him, you are giving him control ove ryour emotions. When he calls, HANG UP, do not talk or listen, as soon as you hear his voice, hang up. That is taking back YOUOR CONTROL OF YOU! That is why NO CONTACT is so important, nothing they say is TRUE so why listen. He isn’t going to tell you WHY, or WHAT, he just wants to control you and CONTINUE to lie to you. It gives him pleasure to CONTROL YOUR EMOTIONS. Take back your control, HANG UP!

Always beautifully written and inspiring words Donna, thank you.
I have realized lately that I have yet to greive for the love I thought I had, the man I thought I was married to. Whenever I try to go there, it all falls apart in a mess of lies and deception, his and my own to myself. Perhaps I don’t need to. Perhaps just living my life with purpose and finding joy in the NOW is enough to leave all that deception and usurpation of my rights behind.

Perhaps I have greived mostly in my dreams. I have had frequesnt dreams where he is back – he is present- and being his sweet, attentive, caregiver, provider, I’ll take care of everything self. These dreams always wake me up in horror, saying NO NO NO soemwhere between the dream and awakening.

Last night I dreamt a funny dream. I laughed at him. He was absurd in his posturing, a clown taking himself VERY seriously. As he does in real life, you will never hear a self deprecating joke or remark from him.
Anyhow, in the dream, he was wearing a ridiculous outfit of ski jacket and pants – white with large baby blue “fleur de Lise” all over the ensemble. Well obviously my subconcious humor taking a swipe at his changes of allegiance, and his pretending to be flavor of the month, as the symbols in my dream are that of the Quebec flag,his province of origin.

In the real world he has now apparently wrapped himself in the “flag” of the Catholic church……aaagggghhhhhh…

So the greiving for the lost “lover” is a lot like greiving for the chameleon, when he looked like cake frosting, rather than pond scum.

Laughing at him in my dream tells me I have made it to the other side of grief, he is now just a weird paradox disquising evil intent.

Peace and love,


I have been having trouble lately.
I think it involves the loss of closure, but I am not sure.

Last night I went to be at 9pm knowing sleep is one of my friends in weathering the storm with my X S/P.

I could not sleep, really, because evrytime I fell asleep I dreamt of the OW. Seeing her caught in his web. picking out wedding cake and wedding gowns, throwing a weddng shower.
The whole time I am running around telling anyone, her, her relatives who lies behind the mask.
I am desperate, I am heart-broken, I am frustrated; worse than a mime or a small, not yet verbal child trying to communicate, because I AM speaking a language the understand, they just don’t believe me.


I know someone did once, but I don’t remember who.

I think this reflects my false belief that he will always be believed and I am always seen as the liar.
In court it has been my greatest fear, but although he never gets what he deserves, I am always beleived.

I just had to share…I think this is greiving.


Thank you, Louise. Oh, how this touches my heart–

I’m still at the stage of struggling with that notion that he didn’t love me. What appeared to be our love was so strong, I think because I invested so totally in it, so much so that I think he really felt something like love. He even called me “my love.” I honestly believe he did love me as much as he was capable of loving, and so he was absolutely stunned when I left him. Yes, I left him, or have been trying to leave him for three months, but this ambivalence over this love thing has caused me to talk to him still, a bit. But I won’t let myself see him.

I too had dreams — for a month before I did the big break, I would wake up with a horrible screaming fear in my gut. Our break up started when some of his neighbors gave me a private message that had forced my rosy lenses to fall from my eyes, and suddenly I had begun to see all the manipulations behind so much of what he did, and I saw the clues he’d been dropping all along, and began to take the threats really quite seriously. And I felt cornered. What he wanted from me, I think, is status, but somewhere in our relationship he MAY have discovered a woman with more of a mind than he had counted on (I have more than one degree and work a pretty high powered job), and I sense he took some delight (if that’s possible) in the fact I am, for the most part, terrifically rational, and an easy person to talk to. Even he made the comment that talking to me is more like talking to a man.

After I left him, I had a dream in which he and my mother had me between them, and they were playing tug o’ war with my body. I’ve also had dreams where he breaks into my apartment with a mask on his face, and others where, like Anitasee, he is that sweet, funny, and terrifically sexy man I fell for. I’m usually pretty good at dream imagery; I don’t think these dreams are terrifically symbolic – they’re merely the memories and desires that are lingering in your mind. Anitasee’s flag dream is much more healthy, because, yes, you’re finding ways to refigure him so he’s not so appealing.

But yes, I still struggle too when he calls, because we did have many many of those good times. It’s just the scary times, or the times when he was screaming at me, or flirting with other women, that keep me from rushing back.

but I still miss him so! Or I miss the “us” I created in my mind when I was with him, and he was stable. That’s the hardest part of all.

Ox Drover

Dear Banana,

I think sometimes our dreams are symbols, but I think also that they are not “spooky” but they may be trying to TELL US something as our mind tries to work these things out inside our subconscious.

I used to dream that there were baby animals or helpless old people I had to find and held out, and all the while a horse drawn wagon pulled either by my donkeys or my dead horse, would be left unattended and wander off and wreck while I was taking care of the baby ainmals in distress or the old people in need.

One night I dreamed of my egg donor who was giving me hell in the dream and my wonderful step father came there in the dream (he is deceased) and I was trying to get him to make her see reason and I realized he believed me and even years ago I should have turned to him for help with her and I didn’t.

I think the wagon represented my life and my unattended needs, and that I kept giving to others while neglecting my own life—always feeling that if I didn’t take care of others they would “die” and it was my responsibility to keep them alive and tend to them, even though my own needs were not met.

Once I “figured that out” then I stiopped having those dreams. I still have dreams that I remember from time to time, and like all dreams they are DREAMS and don’t make a lot of sense, but there is no PATTERN to them any more, and they are not about my P son or my egg donor etc. Just dreams.

If I had to “interpret” your dream I think you have already done it, you think people will disbelieve you, and you think she will have this “lovely life” with him (for a while) but you are wanting to warn her and can’t, so you are frustrated. Those are all natural emotions for you to have, but I think recognizing them, acknowledging them, etc even in your dreams is actually a step forward in that your psyche is working things out while you sleep.

You are making progress, Banana, I know that, and it won’t all happen in one day, but you are doing I think so much better now than you were when you first came here. He isn’t going to change, but you CAN and I think ARE changing your reactions toward what he does, and are not so panic stricken. Good going, sweetie! (*(hugs))))


This article is so beautiful (as your writing always is.) I am still in the greiving process. And your words are so inspiring and true. Thank you for sharing. These words especially made me well up with tears…..

“When we have loved an abuser, love cannot die. Love never existed. There was no mutual agreement to love honestly, truthfully, respectfully. There was only the abuser’s mask hiding his or her intent to deceive. There was only the lie we did not know existed.”
“It never happens. It can’t. Because grieving an abuser is the greatest betrayal of all. In having loved a lie, we can never grieve what never was. ”

I was discussing this with my therapist this past Wednesday. How unfair it is that I’m greiving a love that never was. The realization that the unbound, unconditional love that I shared so freely was in vain. The betrayal and emptiness it makes me feel is overwhelming. Love never existed because I never saw the real him. To know that 4 years of my life were a lie, and that I invested my heart, time and energy into the illusion he wanted me to believe is devastating. So why then, do I greive so hard for something that never was? She tells me it’s because I have such a big heart and because I’m not a robot and I FEEL. But I don’t want to feel pain and sorrow for him any more. His lies don’t derserve my tears. I know it’s part of the process, but no matter how good my days are, filled with positive friends, family and school, his betrayal is never far from my thoughts. My pain is right under the surface still. There will never be the explanations that I believe I deserve, there will never be the apology that he owes, he will never experience the sorrow for what he did to me. So I learn to just except. It is what it is. These are things that I cannot control. Never did. But I can control my future and my happiness. He never deserved my love and therefore he doesn’t deserve my greif anymore. Thank you for your articles, they always help.

And banana, I think dreaming is part of the healing process as well. I dream of him often and just a few nights ago, I had a dream that was so realistic, I woke up in a panic and so angry. I dreamt that I went over to see him and when he greeted me, it was so cold and awkward, and he refused to kiss me, but tried to do it in a nonchalant manner. He gave me the cheek instead and I pulled back puzzled. I looked in his eye, and he couldn’t look at me, so I went to kiss him again and he pulled away. He seemed nervous and detached. I asked what his problem was and why he wouldn’t kiss me? He didn’t have an answer. And in my dream I remember having a moment of clarity that I knew immediately that he was cheating, and then I woke up. But it’s poetic in a way, because I believe it was my dream reminding me that I should move on. That he was a monster and was cold and decieving and that I needed to realize that so I can greive and let go. Dreams can be very powerful and I believe that they all mean something. They are just a bridge from the unconscious to the conscious. I wish I could sit down with someone to interpret all of my dreams about him too. Hope you find the answers that your dreams hold. Hugs.


You said :
There will never be the explanations that I believe I deserve, there will never be the apology that he owes, he will never experience the sorrow for what he did to me.

These things are some of the same things a suicide survivor feels when they loose their significant other. These unanswered questions/issues really do COMPLICATE the griveing journey. And it is important not to get stuck there. (I was told)

The biggest question that a suicide survivor faces is WHY? And I think that is much the same question a survivor of a relationship with an S/P/N also ask themselves. How could this happen? In the very begining (of acceptance) the whole thing also seems very surreal.

In my own recovery before I could actually move into the actual grieving-healing part of the journey…I HAD to answer some of my own questions/issues. I knew I wouldn’t get the answer elsewhere (and with an S/P/N you wouldn’t get a TRUTHFUL answer even if they did provide you an answer anyways.)
I think it is also important to search your soul for the most important questions or issues that you have, and not get lost in the process of coming up with more questions that you could possibly have answers to.

In my case there were 3 that I had to come up with my own answers to. Maybe your counselor could help you with this.

My therapist at the time helped me explore this but I in the end, had to come up to my own conclusions.
However one of the questions I had the MOST difficulty with he provided me with an answer that I could live with.

At the time I carried the “guilt” of how could I have known someone so intimately and not see this coming? No signs. No red flags. Nothing, even in hindsight. I considered myself to be a pretty intuitive person and HAD seen all the red flags (dry drunk) that my husband was going to drink again. So how could I NOT see this coming. (they both happened simultaneously, the relapse and the suicide)

He asked me if my husband had ever relapsed before in earlier attempts in his recovery…..And I said, sure lots of times….And then he said, did he ever attempt suicide before? And I said. No, never.
It wasn’t something that I could have possibly known. There were no clues. He didn’t leave any.

Give yourself the TRUTHFUL “explanation” that you deserve to continue your journey. You know enough already, to know you wouldn’t get the truth from him anyways. Although you know you can’t get a sincere apology from him, I am sure your counselor can give you some advice on how to give yourself something more worthwile than an insincere apology from him. And finally unfortunately he isn’t capable of feeling any sorrow for what he did to you. But you can embrace yourself here, and KNOW that you DESERVE so much better than what you got…

I think you are growing in leaps and bounds 🙂


Louise, I did all that, except before I moved to LOVE and freedom, I first yearned again for one last meeting, one last chance to see him, but this time to laugh in his face, to tell him that he only caught me in a down time, that he isn’t that skilled, that he drips with red flags, that I know his games now, his lies, his predatory nature. I wanted to see him one last time to laugh, and tell him he is not even worthy of my anger. Then I had to grieve again, to realize that even those dreams of closure are based on the lie that somehow what I said or did would impact him. Of course, nothing from me would ever impact him. You begin to comprehend how very, very empty it all was….


Hi Everyone

This will be my first post here at lovefraud.
I have written to Donna about my unfortunate encounter with the painful one who I will be writing about.
The above post spoke to me the most about the illusion and the lies an the person did not exist due to the lies.

This woman pursued me after I deleted her off of myspace.
I was surprised that she wanted anything to do with me as she had before being deleted never bothered to show any interest. So when she asked me to be friends later i was like why?

I understand that her story about the entire relationship was all about her getting herself sex and attention. That is how I feel about it. But I will now corralate this to the above post.

From the very begining she lied to me about everything..the reason she contacted me to her not smoking I found out. To her saying she loved me. I began to withdraw after her bizarre see saw emotions towards me. I had been feeling like I should end our relationship as she was causing me to be distrustful.

Last night I found out she has been on Plenty Of Fish and I am quite sure she had been on there the entire time she was suppose to be just dating me. So all I can feel is like wow there has never been anything like this to happen to me.

There was nothing in her words but dead conscience and cold callousness to quote a few wonderful people who know what wicked evil they represent. I am glad I found lovefraud.
The wild thing about finding lovefraud was from going to the forums on Plenty Of Fish and reading about “Have you ever dated a Sociopath” I am very grateful for the one who mentioned lovefraud.

reading the others stories has made me sad but made me strong in knowing we are all in this together…

Thanks Donna for all your efforts in establishing Lovefraud

Ox Drover

WELCOME SKULLY! Glad you are here and glad you got out as soon as you did. GOOD MOVE.

to innocent to know

To luv7′
I have to tell you, if you call them liars and deceitful to they’re faces, it will be a time before they return.

to innocent to know

Keep your head up and know you are not alone. I don’t have a penny, well maybe a penny, to my name, and I have never been so free in my life. Free to be me, finally. I have been thinking a lot about this whole N/S/P/BPD thing. My best friend mentioned that maybe my dad had some issues. My only 2 relationships, I saw some of my dad in them. When your a kid, you do not see really, how your parents deal with love relationships, you still love them because they are your parent, mostly. Been thinking on a different level lately

to innocent to know

My youngest sister has also had issues, with the same kind of men. The only other biological sister has had, as far as I know, a good marriage.

to innocent to know

Oxy is right!!!!
can’t stress it enough, No Contact, it’s the only way.

to innocent to know

same concept, I tried in vain to warn the OW. It does not work, they are caught in the fog, just like we were.

to innocent to know

Louise, you sound so much like me and what happened!


I feel like there is so much unfinished business between myself and my ex s, I feel like I’m literally choking on the words that I want to scream at him but was denied. Its like an ache that starts in my belly and travels upwards, stalling and burning in my throat because it cant be let out. Everyday is like this because everyday I work with him. The only relief is the tears that come pouring out when I make it home at the end of the day. Why I cant I get over this? Relationships break up everyday and people seem to get on with their lives so why can’t I?
I guess I’m hung up on the injustice of it all, the way he ended it over text message, the way he’s carrying out NC with me. I’m angry at myself for eating up the crumbs that he would occassionally throw at me as evidence of his love for me. I’m angry that I always ended up apologising for pushing him into showing that he cared for me. I’m angry that I never got to confront with him all his lies. I hate that he made me confess all my insecurities and secrets and then used them to justify his final position that I was unworthy of his continued effort, that I was too much work for him. I’m angry that I trusted him with the secret that I was abused as a child, a secret that made him find me dirty and soiled. I’m angry that he threw me away like a piece of garbage. I’m angry that he didn’t he have one ounce of sympathy or empathy for me when I had a miscarriage…his only response being “how could I let myself get pregnant in the first place”
I’m angry at how he found my body to be disgusting. He never wanted to have knowledge of my periods, I couldn’t sweat, couldnt eat something that gave me bad breath, couldn’t have stinky feet, couldnt have hair growing in normal places…I’m angry that he pull at my fat, flattening it out to show me how I could look if I tried (and believe me I’m not fat). I’m angry that despite all this he would point out the guys that would look at me when we were out in public as if he was proud that he was being seen with me. That he would tell me how happy he was that the most beautiful girl in the room was all his.
I’m angry that I let a short, balding excuse for a man treat me like this. I’m angry that the girl he cheated on me with is the skankiest piece of trash I’ve ever laid eyes on. That he made such a big deal out of doing a particular thing in bed with me (“I don’t do this for just any girl” and made me feel guilty for enjoying something that he clearly despised doing) but has done this easily with her (I still feel sick remembering reading the email he wrote to her saying how much he loved doing it to her)
Most of all I’m angry at myself for still loving him.


I would really appreciate anyones help here, as I am absolutely desperate. I have suddenly fallen into another round of grieving and its really bad, so bad, I have felt like I no longer want to go on. And I know it is stupid to let him get to me like that. But this man destroyed me.

My story in short, is that I met my S about 16 months ago, and we finished 4 months ago. I had my doubts about him from the start, as he talked constantly about his last gf, who was 17 years younger than him (he is 38), called her names and said awful things about her, and it got so bad I had to query when they actually broke up, which he told me had been a decade before me and he never loved her. Then suddenly he was in love with me after 10 days, and wanted to display our relationship on FB, I said okay, but was warey. When I visited his flat it was like something from a film about drug users. Then he makes the admission a short while after, that he is a hash addict, and was going to force himself into treatment so he doesnt lose me like he lost the last girlfriend. Oh god! Of course, he went once and after that went home and got stoned instead. Then I started getting stood up, he would just not turn up and would cut off, not answer his phone etc. He told me that he would suddenly get bad turns, plus he would need to get stoned to cope with the issues he had, but he really wanted to come off hash and didnt want to lose me.

MUPPET here of course, went out of her way to try help her S, but it became just a nightmare, backwards and forwards with one minute the lovely boyfriend and next letting me down, not turning up, disappearing, not answering his phone, but if I said anything I was the unreasonable one. “He tries his best but thats not good enough”. On one occasion, just before he was due to meet my parents, I caught him making arrangments with this ex, which he hadnt told me about, and of course he denied any intent to cheat on me, and then deleted me as his girlfriend on facebook, without even telling me we had broke up. He knew that would really hurt me, and it did, more so, he would not speak to me at all, and I was in such a state. More similar episodes, and he was angry at me that I wouldnt accept his excuses for not taking treatment for his addiction and for disappearing and ignoring me. I just always had my suspicions that he was up to other things, but I stuck with him because I wanted to believe, and I had already fallen in love with this Idiot.

We broke up last December again, shortly before Christmas, and I was ready to pack my bags and move back to the country where Im from originally. I went as far as making arrangments with my family. However me and the S ended up having a long talk, I really missed him and we decided to give it a try, that he would have to come off hash, and do it for himself, not me. He promised me that he would look after me, be a good boyfriend, and support me financially, as I had no money and no proper job. He actually cried, and told me that hash had ruined his life.

Im living in Europe but from the UK, and I went to see my parents for Xmas because I actually couldnt trust that he wouldnt let me down for Xmas day, He said he couldnt be without me that long and actually came to the UK. Mind whilst I was there on my own I spent the whole time a nervous wreck that he wouldnt turn up and ruin the rest of my Xmas holiday. He did come, surprisingly.

And when we got back, we agreed it would be a good thing if he came and moved into my flat, so he could stay off the hash and not be alone, and it worked, it went really really well, so I thought, the next 3 months. But then he started to drink, and it got so bad, that he was downing multiple bottles of wine on a night, he drove the car drunk, and one night selfishly drank until 5am when his parents and daughter were coming in a few hours time to the flat. He kicked me hard when he came to bed because I complained about the way he had pushed me out of the bed. I couldnt sleep anywhere else as his friend was on the sofa, and I just had to lie in bed scared and crying. The next day, I went out and left him to it, and this was the day it all went downhill again.

I should say the the S has also a daughter, who he hadnt seen hardly, she was 12, but started seeing her more regularly when he got together with me. I thought the world of her, and felt very sorry for her for how he had treated her. Unfortunately he went back to his old ways of not turning up and ignoring her. He would do wierd things like, sleep in the same bed as her, which freaked me out. She is 12 years old! He would not rent a place with a bedroom for her, not even have a bed for her. And she wouild be running around after him, cleaning up and worrying about him like his wife, she would even sit on his lap like a girlfriend would (sexual positions), and he didnt stop this, so wrong!

I also found out that he had a son, and the mother wouldnt allow him to see him. He had used this women, pretended to have a relationship with her, when he really wanted to get back with the daughters mother. When she got pregnant, he walked out on her and demanded she got an abortion. Why? Because it would ruin his chances of getting back with the other mother to his children. What a git! He promised me our relationship was not like, but it sure was! Anyway the sons ma wouldnt give him access as she hated him, thought he was sick, and a loser.

I tried to talk to him about his drinking, told him I loved him and wanted to support him, but he needed to get control on this, I was worried he was using this to replace hash. His reaction was to get angry at me, deleted me again as his girlfriend on Facebook before he had even left the apartment block, pack his things and walk out on me. He told me his drinking was my fault, I had driven him to it because I make problems where there arent any. He rented a luxury summerhouse up where his daughter lives, which he could afford as he was working illegally whilst claiming social security benefits. He was on the sick for psychiatric disturbances, and was not supposed to work until he had a diagnosis. But his friend gave him some black work in his shop. Anyway, so here is me left alone, with no money, he wouldnt help pay towards bills or food or anything,he walked out and left me with nothing. Even though I stayed here in this country for him.

We tried again several times over the next months, each time I believed that he was getting better, but it wasnt, it just went back to the old ways. I would get so hurt each time it went wrong, because it would be great when we were together, but when he was away from me he would be so unbelievably selfish, make arrangments and then let me down, including my 40th birthday!

After one other time of breaking up, he came to my flat and tried to make off with our shared computer, even though he knew I was reliant on that for my studies and to communicate with my family. I had to threaten him to get him to leave it! Then I found out why, his msn was open so I went in, and wohoo he chatted to women (which he had denied), loads blocked, AND a 16 year old girl on there. I also read his mails and found out that him and his 21 year old had been dealing with STDs at the same time he was asking me out on a date. I also found porn, loads of it, including teenage porn, which again he had denied ever having used even though he knew Im broad minded and there was no reason to lie, except for the fact he had something to hide which was he knew he was a cheater, sick and an addict.

He went straight back on the hash when he left me by the way, but yes, lied and denied it. I found equipment in the house and he blamed it on his friend. Eventually, as he was so desperate for a joint, he had to admit it to me that he was hooked again.

Of course, I forgave him again and again, and tried to move on, several times, but in July he suddenly ignored me one night he was assisting some rapper girl to make demos, so I figured he was stoned and screwed her. The time I saw him after that, he wouldnt sleep with me, and I found notes on starting up a sex business!!! I put them out on the piano and he hid them when he arrived back at the house with his daughter. We were supposed to all have a holiday together the next weekend, but he stood us both up, and got stoned at home instead. I left him for good that time, but it killed me.

When I went to get my things from his house, I found an old notebook and in it was loads of notes about his relationship with the 21 year old, and they were finished just before he met me but he had been head over heels in love with her, obsessively so. So he had lied, and I figured well if he had lied about that, hid his son, had lied to the sons mother, and he could work illegally over many years, he would lie about each and everything. I had no doubts that the nights he disappeared he was off with his bits somewhere else including with the 21 year old.

The next thing I hear is, that he has got a job in a school as a teacher. He did teach 10 years ago, but stopped because he became mentally ill. I tried to talk him out of it, I thought he should get diagnsed first, get into a treatment clinic, and try to be a parent instead of damaging his daughter, but he got really angry and cut me off again.

He didnt speak to me for a long time, I tried to get money out of him for the debt I was in as a result of him moving out, the computer he had made broke, and my mother became seriously ill, but I was just ignored and thrown on the pavement. When I accused him of having treated me badly, like his toilet, he told me I was out of order (ive just realised thats a bad pun hahaha), sick in the head, and that if my friends heard me they would think I needed treatment.

I tried thereafter to get answers out of him about all the things he had done, and he told me he couldnt answer, he did not know why he did things, it was impulsive, he couldnt help himself, he had a difficult time mentally on a permanent basis and he was uncontrollable. He had never loved me, and didnt even know why he had started that relationship with me. I thought, this guy is really sick. I mean, he cant even treat his own children decently let other have responsibilty for an entire class. And he is working as a teacher, teaching teenagers and then going home and watching porn of teenagers just older than his students. So you can guess what I did – yeps rang the school and told them about him. They had no idea about his background of course. Unfortunately bad move for me, I got threats from him and the daughters mother, put down, told how sick I am, how everyone in the community hates me, and I was so frightened i had to contact the school and tell them I couldnt be involved anymore. He actually convinced them that me (good background, job as a lawyer) was some sick ex girlfriend who couldnt get over him. The problem is, in this country, they cant check up as thoroughly as they can in the UK or USA. In the UK they could have checked with the authorities to see if he had been put on the sick for mental disturbances and drug addiction. I had to get one of the lawyers at my work to ask him to leave me alone, it got that bad with messages and so on.

Anyway, he got to keep his job. Nice huh?

As you can guess, this is only a very very small part of my story about my S. And emotionally, I have broken down several times. Now I was doing okay, and then suddenly this weekend, I have completely lost it. I have wondered if I have PTSD or something, I just cant hold it together. The stuff with the school was a month ago. I did go near to where he lives to visit something, and it brought back all the memories, plus there are birthdays coming up and christmas. It also doesnt help that I stayed in another country to be with him and now he has gone, and everywhere I visit has memories in some way.

I have the most awful feelings of grief, I miss him, this man who treated me like an idiot, like his toilet, used me, lied to me, cheated on me, threw me aside after he got his use. The most unfeeling, nasty piece of work I ever met. Why do I miss this horrible person? Why does my brain keep focusing on the good times and want him back in my life? Its like there, pangs, every day, when I wake up, until I go to bed.

And then on the other hand, I remember all the bad things he did to me, and the things he said to put me down, all the mental abuse I endured, and then that really hurts.

All this together, just makes me feel so confused and hurt and I cant cope. Yesterday when I came home I was in floods of tears and it went on into my sleep of only a few hours, and Ive been like that all day. It hurts so bad it makes me feel suicidal. Why am I feeling like this still, when we broke up 4 months ago?

Please help me come out of this horrible hole :O(
Thanks for reading.


I think what you are experiencing now is normal. You’ve been on edge for so long with this person–probably holding your grief at bay–and now it’s boiling to the surface.

You should allow yourself to cry and feel the pain – but do it when you are home alone. The only way to get over the pain of how terribly he used you is to allow yourself to feel the pain.

If you are working, you may need set time limits on when you allow yourself to feel the grief, so that you can go to work and do your job. But realize that this is a process, and you will be periodically overcome by the emotion, until it is wrung out of you.

You can get through it. Give yourself time and permission.


I am so sorry your feeling so down!
You will find support here and great information on the process of grieving and survival.

Do whatever it takes to stick it out….YOU ARE WORTH IT!
I will tell you it’s very normal to have these days of despair…..But you must recognize YOUR worth and realize that ‘tomorrow’ will be a better day. Sometimes it is minute by minute and we must force ourselves to take every step……

This guy preyed on you…..his drugs and alcohol is an escape from his deep rooted shame and guilt…..IT”S NOT YOU and don’t you EVER TAKE HIS PROBLEMS ON AS YOUR OWN!!!!!
He’s a pedophile, lying, shameful, addicted predator…….
Your not the failure…..HE IS!!!!
Do not ‘own’ his issues…….he will only take you down further…..TAKE CONTROL OF YOU!!!!

You must find a way to empower yourself, recognize your worth and progress down the path of healing yourself.
It must come from you……

He’s a controlling, sad, mean, predator BUZZ KILL! They all are…..they seek out what is important to us and smash it……they know what we look forward to and destroy it… they spin, lie and decieve everyone around them…’s a game to them……it’s all about control.

SO…….you must be able to control yourself….you sound like a very smart person and I have no doubt you can take control of your own life…..sit down…..have a good cry….scream, yell and hit your pillow……
Don’t put your value on him…….turn your emotions towards YOU.
Keep the strength, don’t give in to the dark, don’t allow anyone to control YOU!
YOU CAN COPE…..these feelings are temporary…..I assure you! It’s a process we must connect with to reach a healthier US.
Yes, it’s painful, yes it hurts like hell……yes the processing is difficult…….BUT the rewards and growth that come from this process are GREAT!
You will learn things about yoruself you never thought about….things you never imagined… will also learn your strength!
Connect with the feelings…….don’t push them away.
You can’t run from this…..suicide is NOT the answer… have people that love and care for you….and YOU are worth it!!!!!
You’ve reached out to the right people here at LF…..we understand…..
Read others posts, read the articles and this will help pass the time and fill your head with information on how others have coped through our stories…..
Stop beating yourself up……and know….HE won’t change!
You want him back because you had a fantasy…..the tidbits of good with him was just him sucking your trust back in……
You KNOW how he is…..his track record preceeds him…..HE WON”T CHANGE….
NOW IT”S TIME FOR YOU TO RELEASE him…….for your own health and wellbeing……

You need to ‘shake it up’… things differently…..think differently…..surprise yourself……this will empower you…..and it will take you to a healing place.
Be loyal to yourself and no one else……

Find your strength, do something nice for you…..MAKE IT ALL ABOUT YOU NOW!!!!!

Good luck…..and we are here!


Shanmoo….lots of us have felt just like you do. Partly it is brain chemicals. When we love someone (and YOU did love, even if he didn’t), your brain releases chemicals that help you become addicted to that person. Normally that is a good thing…you remember to think of and care for the person you love, no matter what other demands are in your life. Dr. Leedom has written about this on Love Fraud, as has Donna….look at their past blogs. Also, when our brain is presented with a puzzle…how could this initially wonderful man turn out to be one big fat lie….our brains tend to mull it over and over and over. I agree with Donna that you must grieve, and I certainly cried on and off for well over a year, I hate to admit how long! But also try to give your brain a new puzzle. Ask yourself over and over….why do I find it so easy to let go of this man? You don’t have an answer yet ofcourse! Don’t try to think of one! Just keep asking yourself that and one day, your subconscious will speak up and flood you with reasons!

Hang in there. I remember feeling like I couldn’t go on…..and now, life is wonderful again. You will get there. Rage and cry into your pillow, it takes time.


The best way of regaining power is to go NO CONTACT
you are very angry and want revenge which is good, it’s like a length you are prepared to go and it means you really want to get away from this creep
Psychopaths would rather obliterate YOU than face up to wrong doings in the past so it’s a waste of time looking for answers there.
If you have seen through the lies then the reality is in his view is you are defective, an idiot, of no further use to him….to gloat at him about seeing through his lies is suicide because

he really will not care if you do…he does not care what you feel, think or see unless it is part of his self promoting agenda.

The advice here is priceless. Women and men here have been through it and can literally assist you and attend to you as you start to feel the terrible grief of losing the illusion you were loved. Real love would not treat you this way, and you need to say no to it. Then begin to love yourself (as you cry and complain) and keep coming in here to vent and express yourself. So wrap up warm and give yourself the love you crave, and begin to detach from the cruelty.

It will take more than 4 months. Accept it and mind yourself. The time WILL COME WHEN YOU FEEL DIFFERENTLY and the PAIN WILL DECREASE. till then express yourself through to the other side. Be as angry and sad as you like…time to get it out of your system. I am here and I can listen.


I can only agree with what has already been said, but Shanmoo please don’t think you have to die to make this pain stop. I thought that a year ago but I’m so glad I don’t any more. I didn’t know a human being could feel that terrible and survive but you can and it will get better, I promise. You have to go through the pain to heal. It’s hard, but if I can do it so can you. You have strength in you you’ve no idea about yet. Don’t be afraid of the sadness, it won’t kill you even though it feels like it might.

I still have days when I love and hate the S at the same time but I understand it now and *totally* ignore the love bit. It gets smaller and smaller and I know it’ll go one day.

Don’t let him destroy you Shanmoo. Keep reading. Read everything in here and be as loving to yourself as you can. You’re not on your own now you’ve reached out to everyone here. The people in here want you to get through this and they know exactly how you feel. Sending you hugs.


Thank you for being brave and honest with your feelings here on LF. Know that here is a place of understanding, love, and help- pretty much any time day or night. Please stay here and as others have suggested, read the archives for strength, and KNOW that these things will pass.. its a long process, but YOU are a survivor, like all of us here. AND you are not alone. Dont ever give up- know that you are a child of God- You are of great value and infinite purpose.
Google “trauma bonds” , stockholm syndrome, domestic abuse- these topics will help you to understand the strongholds these “predators’ gained over us -their captors- But knowledge is POWER, you are no longer in captivity- Go NO CONTACT- (you will see this resounding advice over and over here- it IS the only way to be truly FREE and delivered from the oppression of these sub humans who try to take your spirit and soul down with them)
Life is worth living, and for the living- the S breathes death and destruction into everything they touch. You may not feel it now, but you have been saved from that endless pit of need you once called your lover, friend, and confident.
Dont beat yourself up for falling into his trap- but feel glorious in that YOU got out with your life- MANY have not been so fortunate. Your life may seem a mess now- BUT you are here, and that in itself is worth celebrating. Take one day at a time- get to know yourself, experience the small pleasures in life and take it all in- walks at a park, coffee at sunrise- ANYTHING you can muster yourself up to do is a step forward. FORGIVE yourself for setbacks, applaude yourself for another day, and BE kIND to your body and blessed spirit! You are not alone… xoxoxo


SHanmoo- for me personally, After N/c with my x n/p, I spent a year or so glued to this site every available moment. Sometimes I was strong enough to take a break from it-even needed a break at times, but also took a year off from dating and got out of the usual socializing/outgoing,vivacious life that I had been accustomed to.
I spent more time on deparately trying to heal myself mentally, physically, and spiritually.
Although becoming somewhat of a recluse wasnt part of my 12 month plan- I simply couldnt bring myself to get back out socially like before.
I had many, many days that I was too embarrassed to tell my employees (i am a business owner) or anyone that I was too depressed to get out of bed, or bathe,(yikes),- I tested the theory of how long a human can go without soap!
My housework suffered- like when your socks “stick” to the floor, you know its time to use a mop!
I had momentary memory lapses, and losses for words- like-telling my 6 yr old “Honey, hand me the -duh,whats the word… blank stare, so clueless…,oh,whats-wrong-with-me …
“REMOTE MOM, ITS CALLED A REMOTE!”- my 6 yr old said looking at me as though I had 3 heads!
I had to ask the LF honorary members if this behavior was normal or did I need a straight jacket? THe resounding answer was that Yes, this is pretty normal, and on the straight jacket- Yes, if I consider it a fashion statement, GO for it!many others have been thru the same pathetic desparation, isolation, and depression. What doesn’t kill you- Might make you wish you were dead- BUT know that YOU ARE A SURVIVOR. I am happy again, I am made whole, and I am here for God’s divine purpose and that He never left or forsake me in any of my troubles. Please Believe in yourself. Best to all.


THANK YOU EVERYBODY for your kind comments. I started to cry again when I read them, you are so sweet for writing to me. Yea, I guess it is everything just bubbling up and flowing out now properly. Like the floor because I also didnt clean down to feeling so low, the no-contact I will also stick to, as thats what my lawyer wrote to him, that I didnt want any more contact. It has killed me, but I know that in the long run it is best.
I also get upset when I hear that he is apparently “fine” now, suddenly cured of his mental illness and enjoying his life in the luxury house without me, teaching kids, and I was left with nothing, no money, a small poor persons flat, severe mental pain and anxiety and a load of debt.
I dont know if any of you believe in karma, but I would really like to!



It’s all the appearance…..he’s not happy, he never will be…..because he will never do the ‘work’ he must do to find his inner peace. Quiet his demons etc….
It’s just the makeup he is wearing….that’s all.

You are so much better off than he will EVER be. You are genuine, and feeling. Miles ahead!

Don’t let ‘him’ and his facade of life bring you down….he will always be ‘who’ he is and he will always hurt others, take from others and NEVER give back…..
This is not a life of a happy authentic person.
Good will NOT come his way.
A lot of us feel this way……and it is upsetting to se them carry on as if ‘we’ never happened….
The ex S that I was involved in is now having doors close on him….slamming……
A recent aquantance said…..she had NEVER has someone ask to be her friend and then expect to be paid for it……
This is what the S was famous for……he just uses people…..they all do. It’s all about what they can gather, collect…..
They live their lives as if He with the most toys dies happy.
NO……they die lonely and in debt!
I believe in Karma…..because I see it happening.
I know the S…….lives a very lonely existance…….but portrays the high falutant gigalo that his ‘bro’s’ admire…….it’s all about having the admiration and envy…….BUT THAT’S ALL THEY GET.
People that earn things in life, can help others and live in peace……
Honesty, Integrity and living a good life is the only way to go!!!!

Don’t give “HIM” another thought……he’s pondscum! And soon, the pond will be bleached.


Pondscum! Hahah, that describes him so well. He has page on both myspace and facebook and uses the worst ever photo, taken after he left me and went back on drugs and porn. Went I sent it to my friend her first words were, oh my god, he looks so creepy!

Well I know that he has a lot of debt, also down to needing hash, and I cant believe that he just gave that up overnight with no treatment. I hope and pray pray pray that something happens at that school and he gets the boot, or better, arrested!

I often wondered if I would feel better, should I hit him or fiddle with the brakes on his car. After we broke up in August, I went to him at his illegal job, walked in, went up to him, went to hit him, but instead waved and walked out, subsequently sent him a message on what I thought of him. I came that close to doing it, but figured it would just make me as vile and as low as him. Nor would it make me feel better.

Just thinking more on these grief issues, for me it is also about losing a way of life, that extended family and friends, beliefs and dreams. When we break up with someone, we also break up with all the connections through them, usually. But with an S its different as often the family and friends of the S, will protect him and turn against us, the abusers ….

Thats what happened here. his family and friends apparently adored me, and were so grateful he found me, he began to sort himselif out after he met me …. but then I made a phone call to his parents one day and said I was concerned about his drinking. So all was not in fact well, and no, things hadnt changed, they had just shifted.

After I started to find out who this person really was, and spoke my mind on it, one by one people started to cut me off, eg deleting me on Facebook, not returning messages, and then after I rang the school, they all hate me. They, his family and social circle, of course also have responsibility here, because they have known about his behaviour for years and instead of being firm, they have patted HIM on the head and told him everythings going to be okay when HE was the one who had just destroyed someones life! (They all rallied around him when the girlfriend got pregnant and he walked out on her …. oh he has it so difficult …)… Sons mother was the first one to stand up and say no, and the family hated her for that. And now its me.
And it does hurt, to think that people can just turn against you, when they KNOW you are a good person and that their son/dad/friend is a pondscum.

He let down that poor daughter so much over the years, went years with no contact, and yet the mother has done nothing, never been to the family center and made him beg for contact. I couldnt believe it. He has no bed for the kid, and she lets her stay over there, because its just important she sees her daddy when she can. She is married to another and they have a kid together, but everytime I was at the house she was all over my S …. oh the memories, the memories, hand on leg blah blah … she must have still been blinded by love. And guess what!? – yea she does all the running around for him, goes to appoinments with him, makes them for him, and cleans his house. I feel so sorry for her husband.
Apparently daughters mother and the S didnt speak for 7 odd years and first after I came on the scene, then suddenly he is moving back up to that part of the country. I reckoned he had used me to gain some respectability, play the good dad, and slime his way back in. I just hope the husband sees it for what it is.

My friend called his friends and family a Freak Circus because of what they have allowed, and thats exactly what it is. I like that term, it makes me feel better.

Well, its after midnight here, and i got to try sleep, but please anybody write back, it is really helping me loads.
I have just felt so like I have been losing it, and its great to have this site isnt it.

Goodnight everybody 🙂


I am so glad to be here! Thanks.


I don’t believe in karma, I’ve seen young innocent children die, tons of innocent animals tortured…and nothing done about it. Yet I choose to try to live a live of integrity and with good character, though I have failed at times. But I don’t do it because I think it will bring me good. I live that way because that is the kind of person I want to be. I guess you could argue I think that will make me happy. Maybe, but I still think bad stuff could happen to me no matter how good I am!

And the N/S/P I was involved with is rich and he will always be rich and he will always have friends because he can buy them. But thhis I will say. There is an emptiness inside him that never goes away, and he is addicted to many things that ultimately bring him down. And he will rage at people , etc. But by in large, I think HE thinks he’s got a great life….except for the envy he is plagued with…except for the depression that hits him….but the MAIN thing I know is it was hell, pure hell, to be in his life and for that reason I’m SO GLAD to be out of it, and what happens to him now is of no concern to me. I’m not sure that karma will come get him. I’m pretty sure it won’t. But ANY time spent thinking about his life, takes away time that I could spend making MY life better.

Shanmoo….For awhile I was totally wrapped up in feelings of rage and wanting to get even….after I finally stopped crying!
But finally that stage passed too.

You have something he will NEVER have, can’t have, is incapable of….and that is the ability to love. Next time it will be harder to win your love….but the point is, you know how to love. He never will know that. Think about what matters in life. We are only here a short time. Your ability to love is a very precious gift, one that NORMAL people have. He does not, never will. He is permanently emotionally retarded.

Hang in there, we’ve all been there, some are right there with you right now. It DOES get better.


Shanmoo, I wish you well. You have endured an experience that most would struggle with for a long time. Give yourself permission to think well of, and be good to, yourself in some way each day.


I am embarassed to say I tried to reach out and when you try to reach out where there is nothing you can fall..

I have been just grieving and trying to get over all her nonsense of lies she told for 3 months we were dating..
She had the nerve to have her friend contact me yesterday by email I was so mad after that.

her friend was like oh you know it would have never worked you live to far apart YEAH the same distance when she began the relationship no surprise there!!

Now there is some package to pick up at the PO BUT I am not even going to waste my gas over there nope…what ever it is she can just take it and shove it..Seriously after all the time that has went by I really dont need anything to be sent to me..

She has been stalking my myspace page I know make it private but I have no reason to hide anything. Her friend was like you know slander lalala but her name is not mentioned all
I have there are my feelings about what she did to me and writing how she made me feel by her lies is not slander..

It has been a long day.
I wish everyone here a great week and happy holidays
We all have a fresh new year to look at..and I am optimistic about everything..truly

Ox Drover

Dear Skully,

I suggest you continue with the No Contact, and I agree not to pick up the package, let it be sent back. As far as her friend contacting you on e mail and “slander” and all that crap, that is just CONTACT. block her friend’s e mail, block her e mail, block her from your myspace page, and cut off all avenues of contact. They keep turning up like a “bad penny” and will keep on poking at you if they can, via friends etc. so cut off all contct with her by not even reading anything about her. Don’t go to her myspace page to see waht she has written about you—absolutely NC zip, zero, none, nada, zilch and that will give you the ROOM to start to get over this.

I’m glad she doesn’t live close (point for you!) and I’m glad you are not with her (point for you) and glad you got out as quickly as you did (two points for you!) and there are lots of positive points for you in this situation. Look at the positive side of it all, you don’t have a child to share with this woman for the next 40 years!

glad you are here, keep on reading and learning about them, and learn to set proper boundaries and spot red flags in the future so you will never again be caught in one of these poison spider webs. god bless!

Twice Betrayed

This is one of the best of the best articles I’ve read on this subject! I really enjoyed this…I was able to relate and release thru these heartfelt, very well expressed emotional words. I’ve been low key these last few days…not posting, just reading and trying to progress some more.

I had a real shocker yesterday. I was at the local grocery store and totally immersed into trying to remember all the items on my mental list [usually make a written one…memory is so shot] and as I was rapidly rounding a corner I ran right into my x and his new South American wife! It shocked me so badly I could feel it clear thru my shoes! I did not let any emotionl show tho….but, what really shocked me was his reaction….he almost broke down and cried…his bottom life quivered and he reached for me and almost walked towards me…..I just looked aside and said, “Excuse me” and went my way. She was clearly upset by his emotional reaction. I had NEVER seen this type of reaction in my over twenty year marriage to this man. I got to my car and had a meltdown so badly I almost drove off a drainage embankment to the right of the road. I had to pull into a parking lot…and compose myself. I did and made it home fine—but I was plagued by emotional dreams all night. Reading this article today really helped me vent thru these written words. Yes, closure…I really need closure.

*final note….a woman in our small town was married to a local attorney that was a womanizer as was his father and his father’s father and all their male offspring..[amazing genetics…huh?]…this attorney left his wife with four kids to raise and ran off with a 19 year old girl that worked in his office…then spent the remaining years partying and running with young females. [My X hired this lawyer for his divorce attorney when I divorced him…this attorney was very CRUEL to me on the stand…badgered me to the point the judge admonished him.] Well, anyway, this attorney’s wife was always SO SAD and to top it off…her oldest son OD in a parking lot of an apt complex where my x’s mom lives…so now she had her husband with young girls living with him and her son dead. She was a destroyed woman. In the middle of my divorce this attorney wrecked his Mercedes and killed himself. His X wife was broken up badly….BUT in about six months she became a different person and now she is doing VERY WELL….she got closure. It’s strange how life works sometimes…the greatest tragedies can sometimes be our healing……wow….

Twice Betrayed

* should be bottom lip…typo error.


Hey everyone, I am still grieving and I don’t know why. I really dislike him, he is cruel. the s/p I was with is a predator comes off very charming, but as our relationship developed and we married, he would do the oddest thing and I want to know if an of your s/p’s do the same thing. Once I would catch him on a lie or challenge him about something, he would close his eyes, as if by doing that I no longer existed.
Can anyone relate to that weirdness and what is that about?
Divorce now is pending and I grieve the persona he was because he came off very caring and in the end was very cruel. His punishement for my questioning him about emails from ‘friends’ was not to communicate with me for days.
Would I want to go back with him…..NO WAY..he was the most boring, egotistical, two faced, weak, pity party man I ever met, and at first I catered to his pity and was playing the supportive wife, but after he started maltreating me by ignoring me, I said I cannot live my life this way..I want to have fun, i want to travel, enjoy my grandkids, not sit here with this conflicted sub human who was trying to decide for me what day I was going to have based on his tantrums or pity parties. He is a nurse by the way and I told him once, how do you do it? How do you go to work every day and pretend to your patients that you care, asking is there anything else you need, what is your pain level, but you can’t care a damn for your wife. If my leg got chopped off he could have cared less. Now he is internet trolling and i feel badly for his next victims,,,he is also ill and won’t be able to ‘perform’ if you get my gyst, so what fun is that going to be for the next woman? But, it is not my job to find his victims and warn them, all I can do is pray that they get enlightened by God quickly…so in closing, anyone do the shut eye routine to you guys..and any of your exes flaunt their new my space girls in you face, cause mine did, sent me an email so I could see how popular he is now…Gross immaturity, these people have no heart, but i do and that is good enough for me.
Thanks Donna and others for letting me vent… all of you hang in there.


ps Dear Skully, please please no contact, it is not worth it and you are worth more…don’t let this person invade your life, thoughts…its a game and its a cruel game, you will always get hurt and they don’t care….If you have to write 3 X 5 cards on every wall that says no contact do it, just free yourself, YOU have all the power!


to just about healed awesome post about our ability to love, aren’t we blessed to have that emotion? that is why we survive because love endures all things! Great post/wisdom, insight

Ox Drover

Dear TB,\

I ran into my egg donor in the store one Monday morning, she was standing at the end of the check out line, and I didn’t see her til she had blocked my way, and there were people behind me.

A surge of adrenaline hit me like a ton of bricks and she tried to trivalize my concerned of my safety with “Ah, darling don’t act like this….” I blew it and spoke to her, and went out side and melted down for about 18 hours. I remember coming here and venting. But the good part of it, if there is such a thing, was the adrenaloine rush made me literally sick for about 18 hours and it also made me realize THAT I DON’T LIVE UNDER THAT KIND OF STRESS HORMONE LOAD ALL THE TIME, LIKE I USED TO DO. I AM healing, I am cutting down on the STRESS, so all in all, it was a positive thing. Now I avoid shopping on mondays or I go to another town instead of the one she shops in.

I think the SUDDENESS of running to them is what makes it so bad. Hang on! Love and Hugs, Oxy


Dear TB,

this is the x with the new ‘step sons’ who could wupp his butt, right?

the quivering lip and tears were, ‘i got my butt in soooo much trouble’. stupid spath facial trick – it’s about his sorry butt.

good for you. take care of yourself. and don’t feel any sympathy when yo see him with a black eye, k?

One of the spath’s sock puppets (other personas online), still online, ACTUALLY SAID THAT -, ‘ever since i was little i always thought others couldn’t see me if i covered my eyes.’ it was meant to engender sympathy. I was like, dude, it would be SO cool if f**king DID disappear.’

sigh, ever her sock puppets are spathy through and through!.

all best

one step

Ox Drover

Welcome Clovis,

Sorry you “qualify” to “join our club” but since you do, glad you are here and glad you seem to have “gotten it” about what and who they are.

What a waste they are! to themselves and every one else!

Twice Betrayed

Oxy: Boy, you are so right!!! That adrenaline made me sick as a dog. I got an upset stomach, headache and had to go right to bed. My adrenals are so fatigued I cannot eat sugar [sugar stress adrenals] or get upset at all or I go down. I am glad you pointed that out to me. I was trying to figure out if I was getting better or worse from that reaction I had to seeing him…yeah, you are right…suddeness of running right into him/her totally blindsided me. I love to get the chicken in Harp’s but I bet I go from now on during his working hours…I will not risk that again. UGH! I am sorry for your incident at the store….I sure do relate! Thanks for the help and understanding…..hugs and love back to you! Ahhhh, LF…always faithful!

one step: yeah, this is the one with the new ‘step sons’. Oh….I see…so that is what all that meant. Heck, yeah, what’s wrong with’s aways about them!! Thanks for reminding me! * Looking for his black eye! :):):)


TB: :)))

I take adrenal support – actually descated adrenals, DHEA, and a few other things or i wouldn’t even be standing up.

one step

Twice Betrayed

one step: I’ve thought about it. But, I am so sensitive to everything and am celiac also.
Boy, these people really blow us out and then they keep right on tickin’ and trickin’.
Thanks, one step. 🙂


my adrenals are sooooo dead. my acupuncturist used to talk in a french accent, making believe he was my adrenals … ”i vill not secrete!”
adrenal support sounds good.
been on a little ‘calling’ spree this week … calling private just to see if he’s in a ‘bad’ mood or a ‘sexy’ mood (those were his only two moods). not proud, but i’m obsessing a bit. NC is in strong enforcement, but i still want to dial his number.


Lost – Now you know you cant talk shit like that with out me jumpin your bones. What the fudge are you doing? Sweetie what do you hope to get from this? More rejection? More drama? More chaos? Your pulling stalking shit here. He is prolly lovin it and knowing it is you. Ask hin to come back and love you? Be honest? Are you willing to be left over meatloaf for this guy.. Can you look for something else less dangerous to do? OK Ok I know where ya coming from..but I dont want to hurt any more..He is not thinking of you – get a grip Lost – you know better…


I totally know where your coming from….BUT… have to find something else to fill your mind…..your walking a dangerous path here and you KNOW it!
You have come so far, go back and keep reading….fill your time with educating yourself and reminding yourself WHAT your dealing with.
This is a dead end…’s just a one hit of the ‘drug’…..soon enough your gonna want more…..
Take back your control……empower yourself with healthier thoughts and moves.
Don’t get down on yourself for doing this…..just understand realistically WHAT you are doing and where it’s leading.
I think we are all in a dangerous time with the holidays and the lonliness and reminiscing that we allow….we have to be stronger than our worst vice.
Know that this will pass……it will……I assure you!
I still think of the ex S daily, and in a negative light……I know one day will come, and I think it will come when my ‘life’ is back on track and I don’t hate him actively…..that I will have all of “me’ back and he won’t enter my mind.
When I don’t need the restraining orders and I can live in peace…..when he isn’t sending his trojans to infiltrate us….and isn’t sending ‘family’ to call our kids on holidays…..
But….darling….don’t fool yourself…..he knows ‘who’ is calling from that blocked number……wouldn’t you?
That answer is YES!
So, show self control….and when the urge hits……come here, go for a walk, run up and down stairs, pay a bill, write your feelings down, take a bath, masturbate. 🙂 …call a friend, make a cup of herbal tea…..whatever you must……reverse the Nike slogan…..and just (don’t) do it……point is get your mind off the phone
But, don’t be hard on yourself.
You CAN get through it!!!!



Interesting…..shut eyes…..
I would say he was ‘making himself’ invisible….like ‘It’s not here’ I can’t see it……
Kinda the same concept if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to see it….did it still fall……I bet his answer would be NO.
The ex s didn’t do that…..he could never look me in the eyes…..towards the end he developed this weird habit of putting his fingers in his mouth and rubbing his face….
which was odd. because he was ALWAYS one to tell others…..don’t touch your face, your gonna get zits….or get your fingers out of your mouth……
This became his habit…..he always exposed himself to me in this way…….(in the end)….

He was always a punisher…..from the get go… times that’s what I would call him….the punisher…..
I would heckle him and say…..Oh, now how long will this punishment last? how long will you not speak ot me….the disarray in our lives flustered me. towards the end i didn’t care…..I pushed his buttons…..and did exactly what he did to me……the last month we were together, I didn’t speak to him for 2 weeks…..totally ignored him, as he was invisable… drove him nuts….he would say, what aren’t you talking to me…..I ignored all words and carried on my business….

The bit about throwing his ‘girls’ at you…..insecurity and button pushing……HIS!
any secure person would never do this…..WHY would they?

If he was ‘done’ with the relationship (supply)…..he wouldnt care what you thought of his next gfs?

You sound as if you have a good grip on yourself and the situation…..I want to welcome you to LF and keep your spirits high…’s a bumpy road!!!
Welcome again!

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