The Golden Rule – and the Silver Rule

Editor’s note: The following article refers to spiritual concepts. Please read Lovefraud’s statement on Spiritual Recovery.

By Ox Drover

Jesus said to “treat others as you would have them to treat you.” I have tried to live more or less by this rule most of my life. I have tried to treat others as I would have them treat me. I have shown compassion, pity, love, consideration, caring and kindness to those who I hoped would also treat me with compassion, pity, love, consideration, caring, respect and kindness.

Unfortunately not everyone that I treated as “I would that they treat me” reciprocated my treatment of them. I always paid back any money that I ever borrowed, but I loaned money to those who would not repay me. I was kind and understanding to others when they didn’t pay me back the money they owed me. I was caring and compassionate when they treated me badly. I found excuses for why I should not be angry at them for their bad treatment of me, even though I had always treated them well.

While I tried to live by this precept of “do unto others as I would have them do unto me,” somehow it didn’t work on the “them doing unto me part.” Finally I realized that I had only gotten half the concept. I noticed that while I treated others well, and they in turn treated me poorly, I realized that I had one set of expectations for me, and another set for them.

Now, I am not saying that I should start treating them the way they treated me, or that I should borrow money from them that I have no intention of paying back, however, I did learn that I should have the same expectations for my friends that I have for myself. I should expect that others treat me well if they are to remain in my life. I do not have to treat others well and then bend over backwards to continue to allow them to treat me badly and not think “something is wrong here,” or as Kathy Hawk says, “this is just not working for me.”

I don’t have a pass to treat others badly, but at the same time, because I do try to treat others as I would that they treated me, it does not follow that I must allow them to abuse me. I would expect myself to act better than they are acting, so why do I think that me acting well and them not acting well is acceptable?

The Silver Rule

So I developed the second part of the “Golden rule” the Silver Rule and that is to not allow others to treat you more poorly than you would treat them. Do not allow others to treat you with disrespect and abuse if you would not treat them that way. Expect others who interact with you, who are intimate friends and relationships, to treat you with the same respect, caring and kindness with which you treat them.

I know we will encounter people at work and in our social lives who do not treat anyone well, and sometimes we can’t change that situation. But we do not have to allow ourselves to interact with these people. We can distance ourselves from them, not allow them to treat us poorly. For those people of more “importance” in our lives, our family and our closer friends, we can challenge them on this and say, for example, “John, I loaned you $50 with the expectation that you would pay me back this Friday as you had indicated you would. I expect you to repay me.” If “John” does not repay you, you are not expected to pretend he doesn’t owe you the money. Of course, you would never again loan him money.

My beloved stepfather had a “joke” he used to tell about a man who was always asking for and receiving frequent favors from a friend and never repaying them. One day he asked for a favor and his friend refused and said, “Look at all the things I have done for you in the past and you never repaid any of these things.” The man (obviously a psychopath) replied, “Yeah, okay, but what have you done for me lately?”

If we believe in and practice the “Golden Rule,” I think we should also start to believe in and practice the “Silver Rule,” and expect that others treat us with the same respect that we treat them. If people do not treat us as we treat them, the problem is obviously not ours, but theirs, and they should not be allowed inside our circle of trust and intimacy. The positions within our sacred circle of trust and intimacy must be earned by treating us as we treat them.

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Oxy – this is so appropriate to where I am at in my learning.
I am surrounded by people that do love me and treat me with respect and I am learning when someone doesn’t how to gently – depending on who they are and why to either discard the relationship or gently put more distance between us – whether they are an N/P/S or not.

The thing that was like a whoosh to the belly is that joke you mentioned – that actually was something that occurred with my relationship to the ex. We actually had a conversation just like that and he said that to me.

He also told me one time – very very angry when I said I can’t do x,y & z (errand or chore he needed done) for you right now – he yelled violently angry at me – “I don’t give a F^@& about your life” and I knew he was telling the truth. I don’t know why I did not turn on my heel and walk out the door that very moment. I just will never understand how I did not leave. I knew with every fibre of my being it was the truth but i so wanted to prove it wasn’t and that I was worth caring about. It makes me sick to think of it.

Thank you for all you do here for all of us. Thank God for your generosity of spirit and wisdom.
With an attitude of gratitude, Breckgirl

Dear Breck girl,

You are entirely welcome, this site has saved my sanity I think, because when Ifirst came here a couple of years ago I was a WRECK, and the people who were here then (most don’t post any more or at least very often) were life saving support to me.

That is funny what you said about your x saing “what have you done for me lately?” My daddy thought that was teh funniest thing, but he also used those old jokes and parables to teach me (or try to teach me lessons as well). I didn’t appreciate how much teaching he did for me until lately when it finally has started to have some positive effects on my life, his words will come back to me and I say “He was trying to teach me that when I was a kid or young mother or whatever.”

Back when my egg donor was becoming “dependent” on me for her every wish and to entertain her I tried to set some limits and explain that I needed some time for my own life, my own business interests (i had already lost a great deal of equity in various things because I had neglected them in favor of doing things for that could eithe rwait or she could find someone else to do them.) But she was furious that I didn’t want to be at her immediate beck and call any time she got a wild hair up her arse to go to town or anything else she wanted. I explained I would do NON-emergency things at my convenience, but that wasn’t acceptable to her. That was right before she got the Trojan Horse into her house and devalued and discarded me because in “love bombing” her to get her trust, he was jumping every time she said “frog.” She really liked that!

I am glad that you too are learning to set boundaries and not let people treat you disrespectfully. Those that don’t accept reasonable boundaries don’t need to be in our intimate life. (((hugs))))

If you feel like someone is testing your boundaries and pushing your tolerance to its limits, I suggest saying something like, “Don’t mistake my KINDNESS for WEAKNESS.”

The person on the receiving end of this statement will get it.
Especially if they have sociopathic tendancies.
They usually retreat immediately, and act surprised or completely unaware that they were being too pushy, or coming on too strong.
Don’t fall for that act, either. People who push usually know exactly what they are doing. If they don’t, then they need to do some self-evaluation.

Sometimes you have to PUSH BACK a little, to let certain people know that you are not someone who can be toyed with.
The earlier the better, as far as I am concerned.
We all know what happens when you wait too long, and give someone too many benefits of the doubt, right?

YES! Rosa – YES… Waiting only gets you pushed back even further and then they say – “well how was I to know you never said anything before” – like now that you are finally protesting it is too bad because the rules of how you will engage together have been established.


Dear Breck and Rosa,

I sat some limits (again) with some X-friends of ours (my son D’s and mine and my late husband’s) and the new limit of boundaries is NO CONTACT.

I had done everything I could to help these people (the man is disabled) but they had used and abused me, the wife of the pair had actually stolen from me, etc. (though she loudly denied this) but they had stuff stored in an old storage shed of mine and I told them to get it out by June 1, I last heard from them in April saying they would get it out. They had a key, so no need to contact me. Well, over the holiday weekend I got an e mail from the man saying that he wanted to meet me to make arrangements to get his stuff out, adn saying that he hadn’t notified me he wasn’t able to get it out in June because he didn’t have my phone number, he had lost it, and my son D wouldn’t answer his phone when he called him. Well, he obviously DID have my e mail address so could have contacted me if he had wanted to. LOL

I didn’t answer that e mail, but later gone one indicating that he might show up at my door, which I did NOT want to happen, so I answered his e mail with a frank but not nasty one telling him that there was NO NEED for him to contact me or D, that he had a key to the storage, (for what is left, not much) and that if he wanted to pay back the $500 he owed D for the last two years, he could mail that as I knew he had the address memorized.

This man, while he is disabled, (in a wheel chair) had sat in a marijuana fog of self pity, poor financial planning and spending what money they had for “toys” to amuse himself, so I do not “feel sorry” for him not doing all he can to meet his own needs. He expects my son and/or me to figure out what he needs and without him asking, to provide it for him because he is “disabled.”

I actually don’t believe he is a “full blown” psychopath, but he is a very self pitying, envioius of others, and does feel some entitlement for others to take care of him. He wanted to place blame for not contacting us in a timely manner about his stuff, but to put the blame on us. Not accepting that.

No longer pretending that he is acting appropriately or that it is okay for him to act this way. He and his wife have violated (or tried to) every boundary I have set for them and highly resent any boundary being set that doesn’t give them access to anything I have that they desire or need. They do not feel a need for reciprocity of any kind, but somehow think because I have “more” than they do somehow that makes me responsible for their poor financial choices. Not accepting that either.

When I sent the e mail to him, I OPEN copied a mutual friend of ours (who is also fed up with him) but whom he had called to complain to about how poorly we had met his needs and how we had “abandoned” him. I did this because I wanted him to KNOW that I knew about his badmouthing us behind our backs and that I wasn’t going to hide anything from anyone including our mutual acquaintences. I am DONE playing “let’s pretend X is a great guy.” We are DONE with him. He didn’t make any effort to get his stuff out of our way by June 1 as he said he would, and he made no effort to repay the money he borrowed from my son, I am sure because he thought “oh, he doesn’t really NEED it and I do”

Normally I would have mantained NC with them, but though they are high in entitlement traits I don’t think they are psychopaths, I actually think, from the reply e mail that I got back that he GETS it that we are done with him, and I doubt that we will ever hear from them again. If we ever run into them, in a store or whatever, I will just keep on moving.

As far as my feelings about them, I am over the grief about losing what I thought was a close relationship, though when I found out she was stealing, I felt like I had found my best friend in bed with my husband. It hit me like a ton of bricks and the grief was terrible, but that is long past now, and I no longer grieve over this, I am just more firm im my resolve to stay away from them, but not heart broken. I didn’t really lose a friend. While I do have compassion for anyone in a wheel chair from an injury, at the same time, I worked in spinal cord rehab long enough to know that lots of people can function and live full lives from a wheel chair and dont’ sit in a blue haze of marijuana smoke and Rx morphine and feel sorry for themselves. So I won’t pity him that he has chosen to not live a good life. He is reaping the consequences of his life choices.

Love this!!!!!!!!!!!!

Standing. Applauding and cheering… Oxy!!!!

Dear Oxy, thank you so much for your blog entry. I need the help of LF, I am afraid.

I am kind of puzzled and in internal uproar today as I got a letter from X this morning.

In this letter X was stating that he wanted to thank me because he is now in psychotherapy due to personal difficulties (circumstances and history of his partner, professional problems). His partner urgently said to him to get professional help with psychotherapy. He is in one for some time now and is getting finally to the point and the roots of his disturbances and he is working on the causes of his difficulties with relationships. He is now realizing what I have done and that he aknowledges that I am a very important person in his life and that with the help of the book on fear I sent him together with the last e-mail, with his partner (the psychiatrist he is still with) and the therapist he is doing progress. He now understands what I was trying to tell him all the time, and he has way to go to solve all his problems, but he has started to see clearly now also with the help of this book on fear. He was writing this emptying one of the fine wine bottles I gave him which he opened on my behalf and to honor my efforts! He also sees what happened between us and to me in special and that he wants to say thanks and he is sorry FOR ME what happened. But it happened and he CAN’T and he does not WANT to change that. (Highlights by me).
If I want to talk about we can do so and he will be glad about it, as he has now a good distance he thinks, but of course just if I want to. Else I just do not reply. Kind regards X

The point is that I am kind of glad, that X finally is making progress, that he aknowledges me and that I tried to help him. I am sad that I am not profiting from this progress as I still seem to have some longing for X, me thinks! But in the same time the old scar is breaking up, all the psychological beatings of X are resurfacing, quite fresh to my horror, and I realize that I am not healed AT ALL!

I was today at my hairdresser’s who is kind of very old male friend to me now, as we know each other for 35 years now, he is the hairdresser of the whole family and close to all of our lives and problems as mother and my sister are also going to him. He also got his fair share of being mistreated by my mother and my sister, they were both not keeping appointments, and he also has a long story of being abused by his wives and parents and the like. He is also in therapy.

We talk always at lenghts about all our mutual problems, in a very relaxed atmosphere, as I am alone with him in his “hobby room” as he is retired and does hairdressing just for his pleasure, and he has finally gotten to the point to allow himself setting boundaries with my mother and my sister. By not accepting their late coming any more. Good for him!

When he asked me whether I had loved X I felt tears coming in my eyes. He also told me to trash the letter. I told him that I wanted to know what you all at LF were thinking about X’s ulterior agenda writing me this letter.

I kind of feel validated but also feel puzzled because I see no point to talk with X about anything anymore as I told X everything I had to say last year in a final e-mail, and more importantly X has his partner, the psychiatrist and his female therapeut also a psychiatrist. It will just deepen the flesh under the scab that is coming off right now. The hairdresser told me not to fall back in the role of the rescuer! So true.

I also know that X is now working in the town I live at present, and maybe he tries to keep me on the backburner to have a bed at night. He still lives in the town my sister lives in, 50 miles away, and to whom he should have been bringing the wine ages ago if he wanted to (he expected me or my sister to get it from him; they are some very good French Burgundies 1990; well worth opening them in honor of me)

(Just for your information: my last email prompted X to write me a very nasty letter where he did a final resume of our relationship that could not be read other than me being a good escort! I got VERY angry!!!)

Thanks for letting me vent, I will trash the letter at once and focus on now. I feel MUCH better now!!

I will meet my future partner this afternoon to talk about our new offices we will have next year!In Europe Santa is coming tomorrow, and I will be at my sister’s who celebrates with a big party. It will be horrible and devaluing but I will endure this to see my small nieces.

Have you all a very pleasant second advent weekend.

Hi Oxy–
I love that term – ‘my egg donor.”

My counselor gave me some chapters from The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans, and I noticed this line “Interestingly, in Christian thought, Christ was the last victim and the last scapegoat. He died for all humanity.” (emphasis in text on “last.”) I stopped at that point and thought: “boy can Christianity be a scam.” I thought something similar when I read your blog here.

Now don’t get me wrong – I think the teachings of Jesus are some of the most beautiful teachings EVER. What’s really sad is how those teachings can be manipulated and used to control people — the concepts of the suffering savior and the golden rule have produced an entire civilization based that believes that if you suffer and give of yourself, you will merit in the afterlife. Unfortunately, those in power on this planet are the ones that realize that you get power by manipulating people who are waiting for their final reward. To manipulate that is evil, you know, but that’s of course how the Vatican became so rich. And that’s what, it seems to me, a psychopath/sociopath does — in fact, I’m beginning to the think the entire American political system is based upon psychopathic/sociopathic ethics.

I do agree with your Silver Rule – it’s one I tend to live by. I slipped a bit in my relationship with Yours Truly (my ex-psychopath) I gave SO much. I think he found it frustrating, because I generally matched his giving or exceeded it – and his kids even picked up on it (those poor kids; I think I know now that they had seen their dad in action many times before. His daughter would play the game with him; his son put up a big stink. In many ways, his son provided one of the cracks in his performance, by refusing to participate in the efforts to make me absolutely part of their happy, kinky home life.)

But I digress — the one thing I’m also applying in my version of the Silver Rule is the idea that if I do give too much, and find that my gifts have exceeded silver and become golden, I don’t expect repayment for them. In those events, my gift was the joy of giving, even if that joy (in the case of the P/S) was an illusion. For awhile, at least, it was real for me.


libelle – nice to see someone work it through in their own post. 🙂

congratulations about your business!

one step

Dear one step. Thanks! Yes, posting for me is very cleansing, and the process of doing so is very healing for me. Letting it go into cyberspace, knowing there will be understanding souls who read it maybe, but that is not so important for me. I am a huge supporter of the concept of “Elaborating the thought while talking about it”!

And while I was writing the post I had to interrupt it as my father (P and MY source of all evil!) showed up and did his very best to devalue me in my own flat by peeping and commenting on my taxbills that were on my desk, commenting on my orderliness, my shoes (I own considerably less than my sister, to his big surprise!), and the value of the paintings in the flat, and this all happened in whirlwind of 20 minutes in front of an accompanying friend of my sister’s whom I barely know and who payed her first visit to my flat. In the end he used the bathroom and had me clean it completely afterwards! Just disgusting.

And THEN I returned to the post and finished it in a completely different mood. I literally felt a HUGE anger kicking in. Interesting you noticed it, one step! Thanks.

And many thanks for the congratulations; I am looking very much forward to it!

Have a very relaxing weekend!



I know my anger is visible, and I am WAY angrier than what is visible. WAY.

your father named, ‘psath of destruction.’ (for his indelicate use of premises and daughter’s heart and mind)

I have too much difficult to deal with this weekend, but if i deal with SOME of it, that is good.

one step

Ooh, excellent essay OxyPooh, as they all are.

As a now devoted Christian, I can totally understand the confusion created by striving to live a life following Scripture and yet, seeming to fail with some folks.

The problem is not ours but the exploiters, the parasites, the dominating and controlling people. They demand and command more from us than they are even willing to give themselves.

Thank the Lord above for helping me, guiding me to the most beneficial sources in an effort to educate myself to destructive, selfish terms such as entitlement, gaslighting, projecting and deflecting and a myriad of others.

Virtuous people DO NOT have to bend over for abuse from anyone. DO NOT have to remain silent and compliant when accosted by a childish bully. We DO NOT have to give, give and give some more of ourselves til we’re basically dry husks just so an abuser, a parasite, an exploiter can have his/her primitive, self serving, selfish wants fulfilled.

See, that’s what I’ve learned, big time in the years researching PDIs. That I DO NOT exist to care for anyone who seeks to distort, to take what is intrinsically mine: my self worth, my core values and beliefs, my sense of purpose, my loving and compassionate spirit.

I have one authority in this universe and it most certainly is NOT a human being. I can respect and admire many people but I still will always rely on the mind, the heart and the soul that my beloved Heavenly Father bestowed upon me.

Hey, if Jesus wanted us to hang with evil people, to do their bidding as basically slaves, why would the Holy Bible be literally overflowing with detailed, clear as glass descriptions of evil behavior/actions?

He doesn’t. He proposes NO CONTACT. I get it, finally, and will continue to strive to live a righteous life so as to not disappoint the Lord.

And in doing so, be an independent, liberated, happy, content, serene, and joyful woman.



Dear Janey,

YOU GOT IT SISTER!!!! ABSOLUTELY!!! Christianity does NOT mean DOOR MAT! Unfortunately, too many people believe it does….but when the Bible talks about the WHOLE ARMOR OF GOD, I think it also means that we are citizen soldiers as well, and soldiers FIGHT for the right! They protect themselves with the armor of righteousness and goodness and do not lightly give in and lie down to allow others to butcher them.

Jesus himself made a weapon, the whip of cords, to drive out the unrighteous from the Temple and their livestock with them. He became justifiably ANGRY at the ones cheating the poor (the money changers) so though he did not fight the cruicifiction, he is painted as a wimp who we are expected to mirror by being wimps, but that is not the case at all I think.

I’m not with going around and burning down the houses of the “unrighteous” but I am sure not for lying down like a door mat either. NO CONTACT to those that would abuse us, no matter who they are. Treat them as heathens.

Ox, I have read this several times. Remember the saying, “Fool me one, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me”? I forgot that more often than I remembered. I like the Silver Rule. Part of healing is about learning to set boundaries and that’s what this is to me.
I read your story about the couple and the storage and know it’s been something you had to deal with. I find it interesting that he was disabled. Might be off the subject, but my X is very diabetic and claims to be debilitated by an arm/shoulder injury. It’s his justification for a lot of his behaviors. I think there are some who use anything and everything physically wrong as an excuse for what they do. (I can’t do the dishes, I just got a hang nail.) I’ve come to be skeptical of those who claim they have this or that and don’t give to them as I once did.

Dear Cat,

Oh, yes, those that would find SOME excuse to keep from doing things for themselves, ALWAYS will find some “disability.” Years ago I worked in Head and Spinal cord rehabilitation. One of the things I found out in doing this kind of work was that you must do the best you can for yourself with what you have. Of course we would never expect someone who could not walk to WALK, but we could expect them to use the talents and abilities that they had left to make a life for themselves. We were always pushing them to use what they had left, and to still have healthy and productive lives. some, of course, never accomplished this and in fact, used their “disabilities” to sit in a fog of self pity and dysfunction, and others became very successful people IN SPITE OF THEIR DISABILITIES.

My X friend used to be productive in his life, but in the last 5-6 years he has become very dependent, passive, self pitying, and expecting others to solve his problems “because he’s disabled”—well, he had made many bad decisions that resulted in his financial situation going from bad to horrible, and his physical situation going from fair to horrible, but it is NOT my responsibility to allow him to impose on me for fixing his problems physically or financially. Just because I made better decisions and am not in his financial abyss does not mean I should take responsibility to pull him out, and therefore put myself into the abyss for HIS BENEFIT.

Yes, you are so right, the “fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on ME” and I have tended to forget that myself and try to “fix” another’s problems which were made by poor decisions and for which they could improve their own decisions but don’t choose to, and instead want to throw a pity party and have me bring all the refreshments. LOL

This sort of thing I think tends to sneakk up on me, and I try to “help a friend” and then when things don’t get better, I try again to “help” them. I ALLOWED this couple to become dependent upon me, and did not set boundaries like I should but instead worried about appearing “cold hearted” or some other thing, after all, I did have resources they did nto have. But when I got to really EXAMINING the situation, I realized I was again “walking on egg shells” around someone and trying hard not to “offend” them by doing for them what I didn’t want to do and neglecting my own needs. I can’t tell you how much energy my sons and I have expended trying to “help” these people—to say nothing of the “loan” my son gave them.

They are not psychopaths I don’t think, though the woman might be close, she is a thief though, I do know that, and they both some how feel “entitled” to wahtever efforts they believe we should extend to them for their benefit.

Because my son D has had a close relationship through Boy Scouts for almost 20 years though, and looked up to this man as a mentor and example, etc. it was very difficult to accept that these people were using us. The man was an employee and close friend to my late husband, and I considered both the man and his wife as “friends.”

When I realized the wife was actually stealing from me, I cut off any relationship with them until after my husband died, and then in the chaos and pain of that, I let them creep back into my life as the man had another surgery on his back and was more disabled than he had been.

But, I am starting to get my head on straight now, and though I stil lhave compassion for his spinal cord problems, I do not hve PITY for his failure to take care of his own needs as best he can.

Dear Ox,
Thank you so much for your excellent response. This is an issue I had been turning over in my mind, thinking about a lot, given the ex Spath’s illnesses. And then, of course, you write this great piece on that very subject. I can see clearly where he has used them to stay in a fog of self-pity and he thinks it works to his advantage in that it makes him a victim. I realize I’m watching him do it now with others and of course, they’re falling for it. I can’t blame them. I fell for it myself, though at times I DO want to rant and rave. I gave so much money to him for insulin and now I found out, he gets his insulin FREE. I have a good guess where my money really went, but it won’t happen again.

I’ve already been called cold-hearted, selfish and mean by my ex Spath. Others have said the same, but as I pointed out to them, it’s not THEIR money he took. It was an epiphany of sorts; I didn’t die when called these names because I wasn’t wrong in saying NO. I know in my heart I’m not those things; I’m simply very careful who I help these days and how I help them, very careful. I also realized it had become the “norm” that I automatically pay for everything and when that changed, it totally upset his life. Oh well.

I have a cousin who is a quadriplegic. 10 years ago, at the age of 41, he fell and knew as soon as he hit the ground that he was paralyzed. He does EVERYTHING! He travels, goes where he wants when he wants, is at every family function with his grandchildren and he smiles all the time. He allows someone to help him only with the things he absolutely cannot do for himself. He doesn’t whine or feel sorry for himself. He took adversity and made it into a platform for a better life. And then I look at X. Whining and crying and “poor, poor me”. I cannot summon up pity or empathy for him at all, anymore.

I LIKE helping people when they need it, but I’m watching that fine line very closely between enabling and helping. Sometimes I can’t see it, but I know it’s there. In time, my ability to see the difference will become more keen. Right now, I’m still in practice mode. Thank you!

Dear Cat,

I am glad that you are seeing yourself and JUDGING YOURSELF rather than letting others judge you for your actions. I know that there will be people we know that think we are “being mean” to this couple, but I KNOW I have done all I can for them and none of it has made their life any better.

Like you giving the guy money for insulin, and him getting insulin for FREE, if I were to give $10,000 a month to this couple they would spend $11,000! Yet somehow they feel cheated by me because I don’t take care of them. They are envious of me because I am NOT destitute, but the reason I am not destitute is that I ONLY SPEND WHAT I CAN AFFORD and not every last dollar I have for “toys”—There is NO ONE who is more frugal than I am, and I live nicely, because I plan my spending and don’t live above my means.

In working with hspinal cord injuries I know what you are talking about your cousin living a full and good life even as a quad. But at the same time, there are others who literally wither up and die with less serious injuries. I’m as sorry as I can be that this man (x friend of mine) has chosen to live in a marijuana fog and an Rx pain-pill high while “enjoying” a big pity party that NONE of his friends are attending any more. He is an extremely intelligent man, but he lives in a fantasy world of poor self esteem and pity where everything is “not fair” and there is no one to takek care of him any more.

It is a shame, too, because he is so bright. But those are his choices, NOT mine.

There is a difference Cat in giving people an OPPORTUNITY and a HAND UP, rather than a HAND OUT. I’m also just learning in this boundary setting thing, and it is a little over 2 years now that I started setting boundaries with this couple, who at the time I was allowing to park their RV out here at my farm, until they decided that the deed must have been transferred to their names because they started treating me like I was the one who had to toe the mark and “not offend” them as they pushed and pushed.

When I finally decided that I had “walked on egg shells” long enough I told them they had to go it “just wasn’t working out” I remember that they never asked “Why?” which I thought was strange.

Not everyone who is a mooch is a psychopath, but at the same time they are toxic and it is not our responsibility to help them or to feel guilty if we don’t. I too LIKE to help people, but I am DONE enabling people. I am learning and I’m not nearly as much of a pushover as I once was.

Hang in there Cat, and you will make some progress just like I am making progress. I no longer expect myself to be “perfect” and that hellps too! (((hugs))))

Dear Ox, I never thought of it that way, but yes, it’s ME judging me and not others. Hey, I kinda like that! (Light doth beckon on yonder head.) Thank you! I hit that wall that says, “I’ve had all I’m gonna take and I’m not taking anymore!”

It IS interesting that they didn’t even ask you “Why?” when you told them it was “just wasn’t working out”. Perhaps, unlike a true P/N/A, they already knew they had pushed it to the limit. Yet, if you allowed it, they would continue it forever. My ex would not have said that. He would have tried to tell me that somehow, the deed was in his name as well, I couldn’t just kick him out (yes I can and I did). I don’t know, just guessing on that one. It IS sad that here is this man who is so smart and yet chooses to sit in his “weed world” with a kick from the meds and not do anything with is life. Having worked with those with injuries like this, you, more than anyone, is going to know what he’s truly capable of. I know when I talk to my cousin, he’s a source of courage and renewed strength. It’s all in the attitude.

I had someone who GETS my ex make the following observation about him; “The problem with —– is that he thinks his money is his money and everyone else’s money is his money. He’s entitled to it in his mind.” Yup, that’s him! The whole insulin thing blew my mind. Some of this stuff is close to $140 a bottle and there were times that money came from the rent or grocery money. Did he care? NO. After all, in his eyes, my money was his money. Not today, however.

My money is my money and I value each dollar I earn because I worked hard for it. If he wants something, let him get up and get a job, though I know right now, he’s just using others. Whatever he’s doing, at least it’s not affecting me.
I’ll keep practicing. It’s interesting that one of the strongest words in the English language only has two letters in it. NO.


Think this is the right thread to place this comment – perhaps it is the bronze rule that i want to develop: not to treat oneself worse than those who truly care about us treat us.

I just got off the phone with a pharmaceutical company’s comapssionate care program rep. I know, I know there seems to be an oxymoron in that last sentence, but bare with me.

I take prescriptions that i cannot afford. They are not covered by the compassionate insurance where I live. I have been just lobbing these scripts on to my cc and looking the other way. I needed them and I couldn’t afford them.

So, today, finally, I set the ball rolling. Now, if my doctor’s office gets on board quickly enough (hahahahahaha) I could have my medication by xmas. I have given up one – and I can’t get it covered anywhere as it is compounded, but this one I have a good shop at getting from the company.

taking care of myself is grindingly hard at this time. so, yay for me.

one step

Yay for you, one step! You’re taking care of YOU. I’ve run into the same with presciptions. I have a pre-existing condition that keeps me from having insurance. I make too much money (which isn’t all that much) to qualify for aid.
I am liking the Bronze Rule too. I am certainly guilty of that, treating myself worse than those who care about me do. Those who care are good reminders of what I’m REALLY worth in this world.


thanks cat!

re:’making too much money’ – there is a line where helping people up and out would change the drain on so many systems in the long term. It is outrageous, that people are not able to access funding, from SOMEWHERE to help them through dark times.

I am sure there is literature on development and social welfare that addresses this and suggests other models – we need some sort of BRIDGE funding. I am having a hard time focusing on what i need to do, and I know that if tings don’t come together I could end up on the street. An infusion of help re housing right now – not even necessarily money, but services and support, could make all the difference. But it isn’t htere.

I keep soldiering; I gotta figure it out.

one step

one step, more than welcome, but it’s because I’ve been there, am still there and heaven only knows when that will improve. I truly believe if I keep doing the footwork, God will do the rest and it will all work out.
I know there is help out there somewhere. FINDING it is another story. I found this site though, and that’s proof enough to me everything else will fall in place.
I know you have a ton on your plate and if you’re anything like me, I tend to get lost in the emotional stuff and then I don’t focus on what I need to be focusing on. That’s still a work in progress for me. I’m practicing focusing on the things I need to do and putting the emotional, ie him and all his garbage outside where it belongs.
Remember the Silver Rule and your own Bronze Rule. They help weed out those we just don’t need around and a good reminder to take care of ones’ self first.
Keep soldiering, you’ll figure it out.
Hugs, Cat

<p>Oxdrover: I too can benefit deeply from the Silver Rule as I certianly live by the Golden one and it has gotten me little except for a shred of self respect now and again. I agonized over the fact that the P had done these things and how I would never treat anyone that way. He took, took and took some more. When I asked him something simple like pick me up at the airport it was asking too much. I can go on and on with these examples. When he gave it was purchased with my money. Unbelievble now that I look back at it. I kept treating him the way I would want someone to treat me but allowed him to treat me poorly. When I would call him on any of these behaviors he refused to acknowledge my feelings as valid but validated his reasons (whatever they might have been) for behaving in such a way. I am now a Silver Rule girl. There is no harm in treating ourselves the way we want to be treated now is there? Great post. Lots’ of love and hugs. Lillian</p>

Dear Lillian,

TOWANDA for you! GOOD GIRL! ATTA GIRL! Yes, yes, yes!!!! Treat yourself well, and expect others to treat you well too, and if they don’t, as Lady McBeth said, “Out! Damn spot!”

Tear their card out of your Rolodex, scratch them off your Christmas card list, and give them the old HEAVE HO! RIGHT OUT THE DOOR!

(((Big Hugs)))) and my prayers for a P-FREE new year!

Dear On step, Cat, Oxy, and Lillian,
Have you heard a bout the Irish athlete who won a gold medal? he loved it so much, he had it bronzed!LOL! We are so hard on the Irish, but, hey, they dont mind, they have a great sense of humour!{Luckily!}
or the one about the irish setter dog. he was chewing a bone in the corner of the Pub, and he got up, and fell over!
An Irishman comes into a Pub, with pig under his arm. The barman says,”Get out! You cant bring that in here! Where did you get it? the pig says,”Ah, dont be hard on him now,! I won him in a raffle!”Dont you love the Irish! Love, gem.XX



i have been asking a tennant’s right activist for some advise re my housing situation (i have withheld rent, which is illegal here, cause the landlord isn’t dealing with a smoke problem and i am really sick with it, and am now facing an eviction notice).

okay – this manipulative little d**K. “i am the only one who can help you, and if i am impatient (after he cut me off mid sentence) it is becuase i am tired and you’ll have to be patient with that if you want help, it’s up to you.”

one step hits the little off button on her phone.


Dear Gem,

What got you off on dis-ing “Paddy?” LOL My best friend is blonde so I know all the blonde jokes in the world. She knows all the Maxine ones (I”m Maxine!)

Some one sent me a funny today, said “98% of the people who run off the road in icy conditions say “Oh, chit!” the other 2% are from Arkansas and they say “hold my beer and watch this!” LOL

Oxy, It was all the talk of gold silver and bronze rules that rminded me, LOL! Love, Gem.XXPs. My real name is Maia.
By the way,the Irish dont mind people having a go at them, as they do it to themselves!!

Dear Maia,

That’s a pretty name! My name isn’t a common name any more, but I do know a couple of people with my same name. I was named, believe this or not, for my sperm donor’s first girlfriend when he was in first or second grade in school, or at least that’s what he told my egg donor. My middle name which I like much better, my great grandmother gave me but I’ve never been called by it. I guess too late to start now! LOL


Dear Oxy,
‘My middle name which I like much better, my great grandmother gave me but I’ve never been called by it. I guess too late to start now!’



one step

Dear One step,

My husband, about 20 years after I knew him by his first name (which was very common) changed it because in his office there were 5 men with the same first name including the boss, so he started going by his middle name. It took me 10 years to think of him as “X” instead of “Y” and then we moved back closer to his nieces and they started calling him “Uncle Y” and it sounded stange to me, so I guess at 63 I will just stick with what name everyone knows me by rather than try to change now. LOL I’m not sure I could remember it myself! LOL


Dear drover of oxen who comes with ass,

….now THIS would be a problem ,’ I’m not sure I could remember it myself’.

I’ve changed ALL my passwords for everything and my email addresses (and all the things they are attached to) since the spath

I found it pretty confusing for the first month or so. still will rapid fire in a password and wonder why tf it isn’t working. have been locked out of some websites cause i tried so many times!

I have wondered if the spath may try to find me, and if at some point i may have to change one of my names. Problem is, ‘we’ were so close ‘he’ knows all the ones i’d like 😉

ouuuu, maybe I could take one of sock puppets’ names! (throws head back and howls!!)

one step

I’ve been called a lot of names. 🙂

And, I’ve been labeled a lot of things. 🙂 🙂

And, people have tried to put me in a lot of boxes. 🙂 🙂 🙂

That’s why it’s a good idea to know exactly WHO YOU ARE.
I guarantee, if you don’t know who you are, someone else will try to tell you who & what you are.

Don’t let others define you. You define yourself.

LMAOROTF – dear drover of oxen who comes with ass – oh I needed to laugh – !!! 🙂

Yea, and I’m getting more and more assy, after my BD celebration tonight and enough ice cream to form a berg, I may not be able to get into the saddle—without a hoist!

I admit that “one step” was pretty cute with that one, glad you had a laugh at my expense, buddy! BOINK! (just to keep in practice) (((hugs)))


Happy Birthday Oxy –
Hey, you got used to being called Oxy when you came to LF. You can get used to being called anything!

I’ve never cared for my real name. It seems people only use it when they’re mad at me. Otherwise I’m “honey” or “sweetie” or some other nickname. I’ve actually gotten used to being called Skylar or other online names I’ve used, so that I identify myself as those names. Maybe I should change it….


there was a lass from bath
who had 2 lovely ath
one was hairy
who used to carry
the the lovely lass
and one was big
and you know he did dig
ice cream in decemberary


All best,
one step


i had a good friend named ‘skye’; think it is a beautiful name; and we had a powder blue ’67 buik skylark i was particularly fond of.

one step

Happy Happy Birthday dearest Maxy -Oxy!!
Love ya heaps! You Rock, Sista!!
Have the best birthday!
Love and {{HUGS}}
Maia /Gem.XX
Our Iranian “Kids” call me Mama Maia !!

One step,
ohh my! You are a goooood poet!
that was great.

I’m in transitions of all kinds right now. Only been since June that I found out the P was a P. I never even knew such THINGS existed before. I was soooo nieve and I’m not that young either! Hopefully, in the end, when the transistion is over, I’ll legally change my name to Sky. Thanks for the boost.


I hope your blessed with good health, happiness and lot’s and lot’s of laughter with your boys.

Happy Birthday weilder of yee old skillet of love!
(w/o batteries)

I never liked my ‘real’ name…..it always reminded me of an ‘old’ lady……
I like Erin. sometimes my GF’s call me Erin….or they say….oh nooooo she’s going Erin today. We all get a chuckle.
I’ve been referred to lately as…..CeeJay…..that fit’s me….i think more than my real name…..I won’t mention……
But at this point….I’ll answer to anything!

Thanks for the birthday wishes gang! We were going to go out and hit our favorite sea food buffet and catfish place, but son C had eaten a huge plate of fish at work some guy had brought in, so the sea food hog-wallow is tonight but last night (since I hadn’t cooked) we ordered pizzas, root beer and icream for floats—and I made a little porker out of myself!

The guys got me a card that made fun of me for not being able to remember things (of course) and it was really a good one! We vie with each other to find the funniest cards for Birthdays!

I remember my 35th Birthday and now I went into a DEPRESSION over how OLD I was getting (really!!) and here I just turned 63 and age doesn’t mean much! Funny how we look at things at different parts of our lives. I’m reading a book called “Passages” about the different parts of our lives and how we move from one to the other emotionally and mentally, and internally and externally. Interesting.

Hopefully not too late…

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, sweety peety pants Oxybodacious!! You most certainly deserve to have a wonderful time on your very own special day. And every day, for that matter.

Peace, Joy and Love for and to you always and forever.


Also, Our Heavenly Father has blessed you so very much. He’s also blessed the world by creating you.

You are by far one of the kindest, compassionate, energetic (oodles), vibrant, wittiest, wonderful, beautiful woman I have ever had the honor of knowing.

Even if it’s only on the internet, I still am proud to call you a dear friend and a beloved sister.

Again, love ya!

**huggles and cheek smoochies**

Dear Oxy! Happy belated birthday wishes also from my part! I wish you many more years to come in full health and joy and dignity and sparkled with bliss, humour and love! (((Hugs)))

Thanks guys!!!

I did have a wonderful day–and really everyday on the green side of the grass is a wonderful one! You are so right, Janey, I AM BLESSED in a million ways! And good friends on both sides of the computer screen is only one of those million blessings
! (((hugs))) and my prayers for PEACE AND JOY FOR ALL OF US. AMEN!

Dear Ox,
Happy Belated Birthday! May your days to come be filled with all that is good and kind in this world. You more than deserve that! Bless you for being here for so many-you were the first to welcome me and I thank you for that.
Hugs and Birthday Wishes,

Thanks, Cat!

Had a great birthday and every day that is P-FREE is a good one!

I’m glad you’re doing well, Cat! Healing is a long road, but in the meantime, while we are working on it, we CAN have some fun on the way! Recovering our sense of fun is a good thing for us all and laughter is a great salve to the [email protected]

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