I recently heard from yet another Lovefraud reader who realizes that she’s been in a relationship with a sociopath. She’s in the phase of trying to wrap her brain around about what these people are, and sent me the following email:
What happens to these people? These sociopaths? How do they end up in life? Do they just go from victim to victim? Have any of them ever realized the affliction of which they suffer? Do they ever realize they are not capable of love? If they are not capable of love, they will never be happy, right? So…you could present “Red Flags of Love Fraud” to a sociopath and they would not see themselves in it, correct? Do they ever see the error of their ways? There is a rather cryptic site called Narcissism Cured, but that doesn’t seem to be possible.
I’m thinking they die alone and unhappy. They don’t have the capacity to find true happiness if they don’t have the capacity to love. Chemically, what goes on in their brains? Is research being done? Does it run in families?
Many readers, I’m sure, have the same questions, so I’ll address them one at a time.
What happens to these people? These sociopaths? How do they end up in life?
Many sociopaths eventually crash and burn. But it can take a long time—decades—during which they create havoc for just about everyone in their lives.
There is evidence that sociopaths die younger than people who are not disordered, due to their reckless lifestyle. Even some so-called “successful psychopaths”—those who ply their exploitative trade in the business world—may eventually face a comeuppance. Think Bernie Madoff.
Unfortunately, the sociopath you encountered may never pay directly for what he did to you. You may eventually hear that his life fell apart, that he’s burned all his bridges and is in trouble and alone, and you may feel like he got what he deserved.
But don’t wait for it. You need to find your own way of getting past what happened, so that you can move on.
Do they just go from victim to victim?
Yes. Sociopaths live their lives by exploiting people. They view every social interaction as a feeding opportunity.
Have any of them ever realized the affliction of which they suffer?
Yes, some of them realize that they are sociopaths. I have heard from people who tell me they’ve been diagnosed with the disorder. Some of them seem to be perturbed—they’re probably the ones who are fairly low on the sociopathic scale.
Others view themselves as superior beings. They don’t view sociopathy as an affliction. Rather, they see it as a competitive advantage.
Do they ever realize they are not capable of love?
Some of them know they are missing something. But having never experienced love, they don’t quite know what it is. It’s like asking someone who is colorblind to describe red or green. They have no frame of reference.
If they are not capable of love, they will never be happy, right?
Sociopaths are motivated by three things: power, control and sex. So when they feel like they have power and control, or when they successfully pursue sex, they would probably describe themselves as happy.
So…you could present “Red Flags of Love Fraud” to a sociopath and they would not see themselves in it, correct?
They may very well recognize their behavior. But they probably won’t see anything wrong with it.
Do they ever see the error of their ways?
Sociopaths feel totally entitled to do whatever they want to get whatever they want. So if you hear words like, “I’m sorry,” “I know I’ve treated you badly,” or “It’s all my fault,” well, they are not expressing genuine remorse. They’re worming their way back into your life so they can exploit you again.
There is a rather cryptic site called Narcissism Cured, but that doesn’t seem to be possible.
All sociopaths are narcissists, although not all narcissists are sociopaths. The difference appears to be in the degree of malevolence. Narcissists are so focused on themselves that they don’t notice when they hurt people. Sociopaths often hurt people intentionally.
Once a sociopath is an adult, there is no proven cure. I think the same thing applies to narcissists.
It may be possible for someone with a personality disorder to learn to control the expression of his or her disorder. But keeping a lid on bad behavior doesn’t mean the disorder is cured.
I’m thinking they die alone and unhappy. They don’t have the capacity to find true happiness if they don’t have the capacity to love.
Perhaps. They may also live by the motto, “He who dies with the most toys wins.”
Chemically, what goes on in their brains? Is research being done?
There are chemical and structural differences in the brains of psychopaths (the term used by most academic researchers). There are also differences in the ways that parts of psychopaths’ brains communicate with each other.
Research is ongoing. Maybe the scientists will eventually find a way to change the brain to correct the disorder. But will a psychopath submit to treatment? If they don’t believe there is anything wrong with them, why should they?
Does it run in families?
Psychopathy is highly genetic. This means people may be born with a predisposition for the disorder. Whether the disorder actually develops has much to do with environmental factors, especially the parenting that the individual receives.
If a person is born with the genes for psychopathy, if often means that one of the parents is disordered. Unfortunately, psychopaths make terrible parents, so conditions are usually ripe for their children to also become disordered. In fact, some psychopaths intentionally try to turn their children into little Mini-Mes.
That’s why it’s so important to understand the Red Flags of Love Fraud. Becoming romantically involved with these individuals always has the potential of leading to children—children who may also become disordered.
skylar;
Interesting comment regarding your x-spath’s minions. I met several of my x-spath’ minions. I remember one incident vividly, the second time I was out with him. Keep in mind, I had just me the x-spath the previous day. I met them at a bar. They were sitting against the wall, the x-spath in the middle and a minion on each side. The significance of that seating arrangement should not be lost…
I sat across from them and at first, I felt like I was on trial. They could tell he liked me (better yet was targeting me) and were teasing him a bit. Then, one turned to the x-spath and said: “did you tell him what year you graduated from University?”
This made the x-spath uncomfortable, as I could tell he was a few years older than his friends. He told me the year he graduated and I did the math — 36. Then the x-spath looks at me and goes “ok embarass me — what year did you graduate?”
Clearly, at this point his friends were trying to embarrass him and undermine him. Normal friends would be supportive but here, they were trying to make his “age” an issue.
Then I told him the year I graduated and the x-spath gets this odd look — like a computer that just blue-screened. I did the math for him — 39. He looks and me and says: “I thought you were late 20’s, 30 at the most.” This made him even more uncomfortable but says a lot.
All three of them are predators. The Leopard got the “catch” and the Hyenas were biting at him…
Arianna
Your post from last night at 6:00 was another aha moment for me. He did the exact same thing to me. I was married and had to be quiet. He was a lifeguard at the hot springs pool one night per week. His girlfriend worked inside there also. I had a pool pass and would go on the night he/she worked. She got the girlfriend treatment and he used to call me jealous and tell me what a turnoff that was. He said it made him uncomfortable but, I have since realized he loved it. What better thing for a spath…girlfriend and woman he is seeing behind her back in close proximity. Same story.
OxDrover
I agree that you cannot fix anyone. My friend was pretty self centered and somewhat of a user. When I complained to my sister she would say, “Have you talked to her about it?”. I would say, “Why should I? People are who they are. If they aren’t treating people right at the age of 63, they probably are not going to. She may change her behavior for a while but, I don’t think it will last.” Had to part company with her.
Oxy,
You got it exactly!!!!! I’m sorry that it wasn’t your egg donor, but the great thing about this exercise is to find out exactly what you did discover: you had 3 people in your life who nurtured you with care, love and support… your grandparents and step-father. 3 people who taught you what true love is like. You had 3 examples. And they gave you plenty of memories to reach back to and feel nurtured and loved.
The first time I did this exercise I was on a plane flying back home. As I was filling it in, I couldn’t help from tearing up. I felt like total sentimental mush, in the best way. And it strengthened the love I felt for these people who did it for me, but also the love I felt for myself.
There’s also a list of the “now” (that you’re an adult): and my three best friends and my cat got their names on it quite often. Pretty sure that your adoptive son would be on that one.
Darwin’smom,
My adopted son is at the TOP of the list. Sometimes I felt like the man in the Bible, Job, who lost EVERYTHING and his friends blamed him for some secret sin that caused God to let all this pain and loss into his life but Job couldn’t figure out that he had done anything wrong, but even his wife, said “curse God and die”–in other words your life is so miserable I wish you’d kill yourself. He had NO support from anywhere and he was destitute, sick, lost all his children…but he never gave up.
Eventually, he had more children and his fortune was restored and he was richer than before and healthy and lived a good long life.
I feel like Son D is the “child of my old age”–not quite young enough to be a grandson, but the age I would have had a “late in life” child. I feel like Job after he was restored to health and had more children. You don’t forget the “lost” children, I even remember the good times with Patrick when he was young. But you come to an ACCEPTANCE that that is only a memory and come to PEACE WITH it.
My grandmother that was so nurturing to me also was the family enabler…the keeper of secrets. The difference between her and the egg donor though is that my grandmother would NOT PUNISH YOU if you did not do what she wanted. BIG DIFFERENCE as egg donor will PUNISH YOU AS MUCH AS SHE CAN if you thwart her control. I have seen the RAGE in her eyes when she was thwarted, my granny never had that rage or malice. There was not a mean bone in her body, though she had grown up in a dysfunctional alcoholic family with a P father and she had been taught to keep the secrets, which she did even when it was a BAD idea to do so, but her intentions were at least good. Not so egg donors.
fixerupper:
Now wouldn’t that be funny, I would love to be a fly on the wall to see how the two would interact! Funny!
BBE: I met my exspaths best friend and the guy was a complete douche bag (excuse my un-lady like comment but he was). Before I met my exspaths best friend, I was told by my ex that his best friend “hated” women, wouldn’t tolerate any “shit” from woman and was a complete womanizer. My ex went on to say that his best friend couldn’t commit to anyone and had three women that he “frequented” when he wanted something from them. So immediately, I disliked this man and even told my ex why in the hell would he hang out with someone like that- I truly believe friends do influence friends. Anyhow, when we went to dinner with his best friend and his best friends girlfriend at the time, my ex’s best friend put my ex down – for example, my ex would tell his best friend something about a job he was on and his best friend would say something negative. Even towards me, his best friend found out the town that I worked in and immediately said something negative – he did this quite a few times, jokingly i might add, but I thought to myself how rude, and my ex just allowed it. So when we left dinner I told my ex why in the hell doesnt he stick up for himself and he just said he let’s it roll of his shoulders and pretty much ignores him — remember he painted this evil picture of his best friend and after having dinner with this ass, I thought he was a jerk too.
Anyhow, my ex allowed his asshole best friend to call me a pyscho bitch in a text and I flipped out (not literally) but I thought how disrespectful and I told my ex that I found that because he didn’t say anything to his best friend, he condoned another man calling me names – it wasn’t so much the name calling but the disrespect that he allowed. That was a red flag in itself — and it was something that i did continuously bring up for another month or so and my ex would always just tell me “I’m too sensitive” anytime I felt disrespected I was told either i was playing “victim” or I was too “sensitive.” Long story short, I now realize that what my ex said about his best friend was really how he was! His best friend is still an ass, but my ex was referring to himself – my ex didn’t come out and admit this, but I kind of put two and two together! His best friend is actually in a committed relationship and has been for a year now!
Where I intended to go with this was we went out to dinner with a few of my ex’s other friends and my ex spath would always “show boat” me to his friends, which believe it or not, I don’t like being in the lime light. He would always tell his friends, about my education, where I got my undergrad degree, where I received my graduate degree and tell them about my occupation. Then his friends would turn to me and start asking me questions about myself and I hated it — I am a very outgoing person, but I do not enjoy talking about myself – I have always been that way. I prefer to keep topics off of me — just never been one to “gloat” about myself…
I always wonder why this ex spath of mine would do that – put me on center stage. I don’t really measure success based on degrees and/or occupations, but when I compare myself to my ex’s ex-girlfriends (I do this in my head) none of them came close to me in terms of occupation, finances, and education. Not that it makes me any better because in some cases, people with such a status end up being jerks or stuck up! Also I must note, my ex spath would always tell me I was diff than most woman he dated because all of his ex’s were impressed with all his “stuff” and liked the fact he made good money — here I came along and I am not impressed with material things at all and I am the type of person who doesn’t really enjoy letting anyone pay my way for things, like dinners, trips etc. I always pull my “own weight” — I did this even in my marriage.
Sorry for rambling – hard not to do on this website 🙂
denbroncos:
How does that saying go? Ducks don’t fly with Geese? You know what I mean. Friends and family are vital tools when assessing somebody’s character, especially friends. Personally, I would never allow any friend of mine to denigrate somebody I was seeing. I even got into a huge fight with a friend because of a comment he made about the x-spath, and this was after I was dumped!
Your comment about “showboating” resonates with me. Essentially, I feel that my x-spath was showboating me to his friends those few times we were together and most likely when he was back in London. I was better educated, mad 3x more money, had a large apartment in Midtown Manhattan and took him to very nice places…
In fact, I am not much of a Narcissist but the second time I was out with the x-spath and his friends, I was careful to note their behavior. We were at this one gay bar and they were drunk and carrying on, kissing guys I would not give the time of day. I even thought to myself that compared to whom they were meeting, the x-spath must have seemed to hit the jackpot. Certainly, based upon his then “reserved” behavior, I believed he was the best of that lot. Which in retrospect is not saying much…
I have mentioned many times that my x-spath’s mask was unravelled when I came across a profile of his on a dating site. While he “dumped” me romantically, I had so fallen for his mask of “British reservedness” and “sorted” life, I was determined to remain a friend. Until I came across that profile. It was insulting in many ways; also it led to several other discoveries. However, relevent to this discussion, perhaps the most insulting was the following, in answer to the question “what are you most likely doing on a Friday night”:
“Passed out on a couch in Manhattan.”
My couch? Keep in mind, he lives in a not so upscale part of London…
LostMyself, I absolutely love Darwinsmom’s exercise, and it is something that I am going to do.
There is one question that I had to ask myself before I considered begging (yes, begging) the exspath to get help to address his personal issues, and this was almost 2 months before I learned the extent of his financial frauds. The question was: What do I stand to gain from holding on to a man who has so completely shattered my life? There was no good answer to that.
If I had remained with the exspath, I would probably be dead by now. Either by some untimely demise, or by proxy, I would not have survived.
What I “loved” about the exspath was a 100% fabricated illusion. The person that I loved, cared about, cared FOR, and supported and nurtured never existed. He NEVER existed. This fact was a very huge pill to swallow. And, the implications of that truth were myriad.
The fact that the man that I had loved so dearly did not truly exist meant the following: I was targeted for money, respectability, and as a safe mommy figure; he never truly cared about me, from the beginning; he only spoke words that generated trust so that he could literally rob me of my individual investments; and, finally, that he would have preferred to bury me than negotiate a divorce settlement (MUCH cheaper, in the long run).
Now, to say that I “don’t like these facts” would be a gross understatement. I hate that these facts are true. But, they are facts, nonetheless. Accepting and processing such cold, hard, and cruel facts were one of the most difficult tasks that I’ve undertaken during my lifetime, up to that point. After accepting those facts, I had to sort out WHY I had allowed someone to perpetrate a ruinous illusion and alter my entire system of beliefs.
These people do not “play fair,” LostMyself. They do not abide by rules of ethics, morality, or legalities. The do not have the capacity to experience emotional connections and, as a result, they simply do not care about their targets. They don’t. And, that is a hard fact, but indisputable.
Hang in there and, as so many have responded, take this one-day-at-a-time. Sometimes, it’s going to be one-minute-at-a-time. “For the next 60 seconds, I’m going to focus upon washing my dishes. After that, I’ll address the next 60 seconds, but not until this one minute has passed.”
It isn’t easy, simple, or pleasant, LostMyself. But, in due time, it will become easier and much less painful than you ever imagined. Four months from now, you may still be hurting and experiencing some stage of grief, but it won’t be as keen or intense as it is, right now.
Brightest, brightest blessings to you
Truthspeak;
You wrote a concise, “refrigerator magnet” post that is highly accurate about sociopaths.
The person I cared for does not exist. That person was simply a mirror of my values, crafted to manipulate me for respectability. My x-spath is an HIV+ Flight Attendant — in the gay world, that is about as low as one can go on the respectability scale, save for an escort. I did not know about the HIV+ part when I dated him; however, in retrospect that I would even consider dating a Flight Attendant speaks volumes of my mental state at the time. However, to my concern about his “profession”, he did state he would only being doing it for a bit longer then return to a white collar job; right — he was just mirroring to get hook me.
My x-spath needs emotional and employment fixing. He is intelligent and college educated, with a degree in media production. I felt that by working on both (addressing some emotional issues, resuming his media career) he could be a good partner. Wrong. He is a sociopath and will never change. In fact, while his career facilitates his predatory nature, even if that changed, he would still be a cold, manipulating sociopath.
I do not like these facts. There is still a small part of my that “feels” for him and that he could be a good, happy person if he followed by advice and vision for him. NONSENSE.
What he did to me is inexcusable, even for somebody not HIV+. Given that he is HIV+, dumping me when I was facing such a crisis myself shows a total lack of empathy and honesty only found in sociopaths.
spaths are dangerous and evil people. They minipulate, conive, and always plotting and planning their next scheme.
I lived a life of hell, yet I could not put a finger on what was wrong. The spath faked the courts, and I lost my home, my monies, everything. Luckily, I took the stand to fight and exploit the bastard, and turned him in to the irs criminal investigations. The spath fled because he knew the mask of sanity was falling, and I knew because I was reading Dr, Hare’s checklist for psychopathy. It fit my spath to tee. There is no doubt, that you will feel the hurt, the anger, that encompassed this relationship. Every aspect of the relationship was an illusion, it never existed.
You tell people what to watch for , and they look at you as if you have 10 heads. I learned one thing, what doesn’t kill you, will make you stronger. The addiction to the spath is a dangerous road to follow. Some people find the excitement, and the continuous everything is a way of life-it is not. The spath always need the narcissist supply, so they come back, like a bad penny. When you exploit them with the big guns, they back right off. You need to be strong, yet stay away, completely away. No contact!