I recently heard from yet another Lovefraud reader who realizes that she’s been in a relationship with a sociopath. She’s in the phase of trying to wrap her brain around about what these people are, and sent me the following email:
What happens to these people? These sociopaths? How do they end up in life? Do they just go from victim to victim? Have any of them ever realized the affliction of which they suffer? Do they ever realize they are not capable of love? If they are not capable of love, they will never be happy, right? So…you could present “Red Flags of Love Fraud” to a sociopath and they would not see themselves in it, correct? Do they ever see the error of their ways? There is a rather cryptic site called Narcissism Cured, but that doesn’t seem to be possible.
I’m thinking they die alone and unhappy. They don’t have the capacity to find true happiness if they don’t have the capacity to love. Chemically, what goes on in their brains? Is research being done? Does it run in families?
Many readers, I’m sure, have the same questions, so I’ll address them one at a time.
What happens to these people? These sociopaths? How do they end up in life?
Many sociopaths eventually crash and burn. But it can take a long time—decades—during which they create havoc for just about everyone in their lives.
There is evidence that sociopaths die younger than people who are not disordered, due to their reckless lifestyle. Even some so-called “successful psychopaths”—those who ply their exploitative trade in the business world—may eventually face a comeuppance. Think Bernie Madoff.
Unfortunately, the sociopath you encountered may never pay directly for what he did to you. You may eventually hear that his life fell apart, that he’s burned all his bridges and is in trouble and alone, and you may feel like he got what he deserved.
But don’t wait for it. You need to find your own way of getting past what happened, so that you can move on.
Do they just go from victim to victim?
Yes. Sociopaths live their lives by exploiting people. They view every social interaction as a feeding opportunity.
Have any of them ever realized the affliction of which they suffer?
Yes, some of them realize that they are sociopaths. I have heard from people who tell me they’ve been diagnosed with the disorder. Some of them seem to be perturbed—they’re probably the ones who are fairly low on the sociopathic scale.
Others view themselves as superior beings. They don’t view sociopathy as an affliction. Rather, they see it as a competitive advantage.
Do they ever realize they are not capable of love?
Some of them know they are missing something. But having never experienced love, they don’t quite know what it is. It’s like asking someone who is colorblind to describe red or green. They have no frame of reference.
If they are not capable of love, they will never be happy, right?
Sociopaths are motivated by three things: power, control and sex. So when they feel like they have power and control, or when they successfully pursue sex, they would probably describe themselves as happy.
So…you could present “Red Flags of Love Fraud” to a sociopath and they would not see themselves in it, correct?
They may very well recognize their behavior. But they probably won’t see anything wrong with it.
Do they ever see the error of their ways?
Sociopaths feel totally entitled to do whatever they want to get whatever they want. So if you hear words like, “I’m sorry,” “I know I’ve treated you badly,” or “It’s all my fault,” well, they are not expressing genuine remorse. They’re worming their way back into your life so they can exploit you again.
There is a rather cryptic site called Narcissism Cured, but that doesn’t seem to be possible.
All sociopaths are narcissists, although not all narcissists are sociopaths. The difference appears to be in the degree of malevolence. Narcissists are so focused on themselves that they don’t notice when they hurt people. Sociopaths often hurt people intentionally.
Once a sociopath is an adult, there is no proven cure. I think the same thing applies to narcissists.
It may be possible for someone with a personality disorder to learn to control the expression of his or her disorder. But keeping a lid on bad behavior doesn’t mean the disorder is cured.
I’m thinking they die alone and unhappy. They don’t have the capacity to find true happiness if they don’t have the capacity to love.
Perhaps. They may also live by the motto, “He who dies with the most toys wins.”
Chemically, what goes on in their brains? Is research being done?
There are chemical and structural differences in the brains of psychopaths (the term used by most academic researchers). There are also differences in the ways that parts of psychopaths’ brains communicate with each other.
Research is ongoing. Maybe the scientists will eventually find a way to change the brain to correct the disorder. But will a psychopath submit to treatment? If they don’t believe there is anything wrong with them, why should they?
Does it run in families?
Psychopathy is highly genetic. This means people may be born with a predisposition for the disorder. Whether the disorder actually develops has much to do with environmental factors, especially the parenting that the individual receives.
If a person is born with the genes for psychopathy, if often means that one of the parents is disordered. Unfortunately, psychopaths make terrible parents, so conditions are usually ripe for their children to also become disordered. In fact, some psychopaths intentionally try to turn their children into little Mini-Mes.
That’s why it’s so important to understand the Red Flags of Love Fraud. Becoming romantically involved with these individuals always has the potential of leading to children—children who may also become disordered.
Creampuff, don’t know yet how it will work out. The parole hearing will be sometime BETWEEN august and December next year, but it is really not a hearing, in fact, just one parole board member looks over the paper work for him…and makes a decision. The only people who have a RIGHT to “speak” before the board are the family of the victim…and I am not sure that they will do so. I have “parents of murdered children” group trying to contact them to see if they will protest but it may be too painful for them to do so, I don’t know.
I am collecting letters of protest—if you’d like to write one you can go to the article here on LF that gives the information on how to protest with a letter to the parole board. All are appreciated. I will update the LF community as soon as I know anything.
Yea, it is difficult to go NC and with your husband’s attitude your marriage is not exactly going to be “made in heaven” and only you can decide if you are willing to tolerate that state of affairs.
I respectfully disagree with Blossom4th about putting people in the “middle.” If someone has done something HORRIBLE TO YOU, then people who love you should support you going NC with them. I used to try VERY HARD to NOT insist that if person A stole from me (or whatever they did) then I would not insist that friend B stop associating with person A AND me. Now, I am not so “caring” about that sort of thing. Just like with my egg donor, I HAVE PUT HER IN THE MIDDLE DELIBERATELY…my son tried to kill me and YOU ARE SENDING HIM MONEY???? WTF????
It is either me or him, take your pick. You can’t have us both.
Of course if it is a minor disagreement that is one thing, but on BIG ISSUES, support me or we are done, bye bye.
Also I think a husband and wife should support each other above all else…and if someone mistreated me, I would expect my husband to support me or find other lodging. In fact, my husband DID support me in those ways except once, when someone stole something from me that was of sentimental nature and he did not understand why I was so upset and it was the wife of a friend of his and at the time he died, we still had not come to an understanding about her. I have no doubt though that in the end, he would have been supportive of me…even if it meant that he had to go NC with his friend.
I eventually went NC with these people and warned some others about them and the others didn’t listen and got scammed big time by the couple, it wasn’t only the woman that was a problem but the husband as well. Now pretty well everyone who knows them knows they are scammers and is NC with them.
Yep Blossom, they’re called “fence sitters” and the bible has some things to say about them:
(Disclaimer: This is “text book fact” NOT my opinion and as usual, when I quote a text book fact I cite my sources. If I didn’t cite a source then it is my opinion. As per Henry’s demand, I, and I alone of all the LF posters, must now write this disclaimer on all my posts because if I don’t, I suppose it confuses him and he’ll have to explain to me that my opinions are only opinions. 😆 )
Blossom, it doesn’t mean that things are black or white. There are times when we need to associate with people regardless of their behavior. What it does mean, is that the fence sitter cannot be trusted. Because you just don’t ever know what side of the fence he’ll jump to. I keep them at arms length. I don’t give them any drama about their fence sitting, I simply judge them as what they are: A fence sitter. And they get treated accordingly.
My exspath is dying of multiple cancers at the moment. And yet he is still attempting to manipulate people around him.
His children (my former steps) have nothing to do with him although we still have good relationships.
Yes, sometimes they do get what they deserve in the end.
I apologize to each and everyone who felt bad when reading my earlier comment.I certainly wasn’t referring to ‘fence sitters’ when I made the comment.I had in mind my daughters.I haven’t told them they shouldn’t go see their father.They aren’t minors.There’s no legal reason why they have to see him.In fact,I don’t think my oldest daughter has visited him except when he has been in the hospital.But,it is their choice.They suffered while living with him,and now they live well adjusted lives.If they choose to visit their father,so be it.Same with friends.I will not hold grudges or hate in my heart.I’ve already lost 28 yrs and much more!It is now time for me to concentrate on healing and loving myself!
blossom,
there is no reason to apologize for stating your thoughts. We are here to air out our feelings and our thoughts about a very complex issue. Your thoughts are an important addition to the conversation.
None of these decisions are easy. To have contact with people who don’t understand the big picture, or to walk away if their behavior could hurt you, is a personal choice.
For myself, I always chose to sacrifice my emotions because I thought they didn’t matter. They weren’t important. I STILL do that, but I’m learning better, or at least trying to. When someone thinks it’s okay to hurt me, I look around to see who is there to witness and what they do about it.
I can read people much better now that I’ve studied the cluster A’s and B’s and C’s. I understand why they act how they do, so I’m not as vulnerable.
Anyway, please don’t think you made me feel bad with your comment. My response was more about fence sitters and not necessarily regarding your personal situation –which BTW, thank you for clarifying. It does add another dimension to the conversation, another perspective.
Blossom4th, I understand your position on your daughters, but there are cases where the abuse is so awful that continuing to have a relationship with people who “remain friends” with the abuser, knowing what they have done to you is unsustainable most of the time.
With my own “egg donor” (I no longer call her my mother as she didn’t earn that title) sends money to my P-son who is in prison for premeditated cold blooded murder, and hires him an attorney to try to get him out on parole, though she KNOWS (she’s seen the evidence) that he sent one of his ex convict friends to kill me. How can I maintain a “relationshit” with her? I dont’ hate her, I have forgiven her (gotten the bitterness out of my heart toward her) but trust her? NEVER! She has shown she is untrustworthy by repeatedly lying and manipulating.
There was a time when I would let people run over me, do all kinds of bad things to me, and then when others over looked what those people had done, I accepted that I should not “put them in the middle” or “make them choose sides”
Well, there ARE times when people SHOULD pick a side. What about the people in Germany who were not Nazis but stood by and did nothing while the Nazis killed and tortured millions of people? What about the people who stood silently by in our country when women, blacks, Italians, Irish, and gays were persecuted?
I understand why you might want to let your daughters make up their own minds about if they visit their paternal DNA donor or not…and even if they do go to the hospital to visit him as he is dying, maybe they need that as “closure” with him. It isn’t like they have relationshits with him in which they invalidate what kind of man he was or what he did to you.
I know it is difficult (I had a P sperm donor) to sever relationships with either DNA donor whether they have acted like a “father or mother” is beside the point…it is also difficult to sever the relationship with your P offspring, I’ve done that as well. But I no longer think it is ALWAYS wrong to put people on the fence to the “defecate or vacate” test (shiat or get off the pot!) and make them choose sides. If they choose to have a relationship with your abuser (and in the case of your daughters visiting their dying DNA donor in the hospital, I don’t think that = a relationshit.)
Glad you are at LF! Thanks for your posts.
Regarding the spath who is dying of multiple cancer: on the one hand him dying is of little consequence when you measure all of the pain and misery he has caused. He gets out as it were, without knowing the suffering he is caused. I understand why the Bible teaches us that “vengeance” is for God to dispense. This has been hard for me lately because I got burnt pretty good this time out. I have to stop myself from wishing my xspath dead every single day. I have never had those kind of thoughts and I do want them to go away. I do not want to be like that at all. My xspath is a very heavy smoker and uses marijuana and alcohol. Maybe he is committing slow suicide anyway. He is one of the most miserable people I’ve ever met. I loved him though and kept thinking that I would be the one to make things right for him. What an ego I had! If that is God’s lesson for me, to make me more humble and less proud, then I am glad for it no matter how much it hurts and Lord knows it does hurt. I want to be a better me and I don’t want to hurt anyone. I don’t want to be a monster like he is. When i think of what attracted me to him, in retrospect, I think the fact that he was not always genuine is a trait that I recognize in myself. I’ve never spent a lot of time thinking about this stuff but I think it is high time that I did. My first counseling session is tomorrow. I sure hope I get a counselor who “gets it”.
Revelation,
First in our healing we learn about THEM, then as we get further along we learn about ourselves. Then we start to grow and heal in earnest.
There are so many aspects spiritually that we have to examine about ourselves in our healing. Changes we must make iin our outlooks and in the way we behave toward others and toward ourselves as well.
I hope your counselor gets it too….but even if he/she doesn’t until you can find another one who does, maybe the chance to talk to someone though will help. (although a counselor who “gets it” is better, most counselors will help to some extent even if they don’t) Hang in there.
“We are just option’s to them, option number 1, 2 , 3 or however many, they have their main options (us) we provide security, a roof over their heads, sex, what ever..but we are just an option..they have several options going at once just in case we kick em to the curb. And we did. believe me I could still be his option if I wanted to settle for that.
The more options they have the more powerful they feel, it’s all about power to them, they know nothing of love.”
In one of my last emails to the x-spath, he mentioned that “all this attention around me put me in an unusual good mood.”
Yes, my attention, the attention of the person that f*cked him on a Caribbean trip, the attention of his “new” friend…
Three at once that I know of…
“My xspath is a very heavy smoker and uses marijuana and alcohol. Maybe he is committing slow suicide anyway. ”
Mine is only a moderate smoker but drinks and does recreational drugs, although I did not know about the later when I was seeing him. He is also HIV+. Both his parents died of cancer in their early 50s.
All of this was part of the “pity” play that made me think far better of him than I should have. In essence, he is committing slow suicide.
If there is some vengeance, or better yet reaping what one sow’s, my x-spath is getting his due.
While now 39, he does not see himself as a man. His mindset, dress and lifestyle is that of an early 20’s boy. Up until about 6 years ago, he could pull that off very, very well. However, due to a combination of factors, in his mid 30s he rapidly aged, like a real-life Dorian Gray. Knowing his vanity, there is no worse fate.