The question victims of sociopaths most frequently ask is, “Why am I having such a hard time getting beyond this?” I am going to give an answer, but I’m afraid that since the answer is intellectual and not emotional, it may not feel complete or satisfactory. This is how a reader phrased this question:
It’s interesting because it seems like a lot of members on the board (myself included) have mentioned how difficult it is to get rid of thoughts of their sociopath. They seem to haunt us even after they have left our lives. As if the damage and destruction was not enough, they continue to be a part of our lives through our minds.
We have to acknowledge that this question is not only asked by victims of sociopathy. Many people who have suffered the loss of a significant intimate relationship ruminate for a long time. As far as I know there are no studies directly comparing victims of sociopaths to widows/widowers and divorced people. The presence of depression definitely increases this rumination in divorced and widowed people. It is highly recommended that people who have suffered loss, and who have sleep and appetite disturbance with excessive preoccupation be considered for antidepressants.
Many things contribute to the depression that is experienced after a relationship with a sociopath. Depression is learned helplessness. Sociopaths increase helplessness in victims by their exploitive care-taking behavior that is disguised as love. I personally experienced at least two examples of this. While I was pregnant, my former husband drove me to work, saying he was concerned about me. Effectively, I didn’t drive or go any where alone for nearly a year. He also ordered lunch for me everyday. These small things add up and increase reliance on the sociopath. Then, when the sociopath is gone, victims have to regain their autonomy.
At the beginning of a relationship, sociopaths determine what a victim’s most sacred dreams are. They then proceed to convince the victim that they are the answer to those dreams. Victims often feel that the sociopath is their dream come true, not realizing that they told the sociopath their dreams and the sociopath then used the information to deceive. No one wants to give up his/her most sacred dream. Sociopaths know this and count on it. This fact makes victims enter a state of denial in order to preserve the illusion that these dreams have come true. When that state of denial is finally broken, depression sets in. The depression is about a feeling of hopelessness that the things wanted most in life will never be achieved.
In addition to depression, anxiety greatly affects adjustment to the loss of a relationship. In the wake of a relationship with a sociopath, victims are often left with financial problems, fear of the IRS and police, no friends and severed family ties. It is no wonder there is massive anxiety here! Our minds are preprogrammed to seek relief from anxiety through our love relationships. Because of this preprogramming, anxiety will increase thoughts of the sociopath. One Lovefraud reader stated recently, “I am learning that if I can reduce the anxiety which is the most uncomfortable thing to live with, then I can focus on moving forward.” The anxiety experienced during the relationship with the sociopath also enhances the psychological bond. I have discussed this in previous posts.
The bottom line is that in order to even begin to recover, you have to overcome depression and anxiety. If you are not able to do this alone please get help. With all the advances in medicine there is no reason to suffer. Also realize that you cannot overcome anxiety and depression without taking care of yourself. Stop smoking, eat a healthy diet, do not drink alcohol. Alcohol will weaken your coping and interfere with your sleep. You also need at least 30 minutes of exercise a day. You also need to find good social support. Social support is the best natural treatment of anxiety there is.
Dear blue_eyes,
You found out the thing that we all need to learn, when you are running from yourself, you always take yourself with you. I’m glad that you are clean and sober and healing. I can’t imagine the courage it took to post that revelation here. I sort of thought there was “more” to the Jamie story than you had told, but now I can see why it was so devestating, the aftermath was worse than the relationship itself.
Many of us here at LF are “alone” (without a significant other love interest) and with some small chance of really finding what we would pretty much like to have, but I’ve come to grips with being alone, but not lonely, if that makes sense.
I’m no longer willing to set my standards low enough to have a “warm body” with little else in my life. I don’t feell cheated because my standards are HIGH. I’m not interested in “hook ups” or one night stands, or sex with someone I don’t love, because TO ME that is not fulfilling in the least. It might be for some, but NOT for me.
I wish you the best that life has to offer and that you will continue to take care of YOURSELF FIRST. You do deserve the good, but first you must treat yourself as well as you would like others to treat you. I’m glad you you are.
Matt, a gay attorney who blogs here has found a wonderful relationship, a new job and is doing well and happy after he finally healed from the psychopath he took in because he was lonely and set his standards too low. After my husband died, I was very lonely, low, depressed, and needy, I let myselfr become involved with a toxic P because of that fear of being “alone”—NO MORE! Even life alone is great if you like yourself! (((((Hugs)))) and God bless!
Oxdrover;
Early on during AA meetings, I tried to share about Jamie but it was very difficult because I would get too emotional. I also felt that I needed to be careful of my words, because many in the meeting were HIV positive. I was also embarrassed to admit being so attached to somebody I only knew for one month. Thus, I did not talk about him very much. I also experienced a stunning lack of support from family and friends, with a couple of my closest friends being particularly unsupportive, including one of the two friends who met Jamie.
Through AA I met several whom I began to trust. Interestingly, when I opened up to them, there focus seemed to be more on his “pain and suffering,” not mine. They did not view him as “toxic.” Rather, through his “pain” they found reason to justify his actions toward me. One even suggested that Jamie was actually trying to protect me. Not exactly what I needed to hear.
For 9 months or so, I had the thought I might have been dealing with a sociopath, but I did not talk much about this. About a month before my surgery, I met somebody in a meeting and afterwards, I began to tell him about Jamie. While I was talking to him, he asked me for a pen and wrote one word on a piece of paper. When I was finished, he showed me that word: SOCIOPATH. Right after that I found Lovefraud.
Originally, I was going to write a letter to be published. My protective natured prevented me from so doing. When I saw stories with similar experiences, I started sharing. The advice and support I received here has been crucial to my being able to make an emotional break from him. Your support has been particularly important.
There are so many little things that make this story bizarre and unforgettable. In my depressed state, it was easy to view it all as some cosmic reason that we should be together. Even my psychologist shook his head when I told him about finding in Quebec the “James Pride” building on Jamie’s birthday.
If not for Lovefraud (and yourself), I would be still sticking to such silly notions and still falling for the “pity play.”
The AA Big Book admits some people cannot be helped. I fear Jamie is one such person. The last line of my last email was something like “Jamie, I know we both have issues to take care of; take care of yours because there are people who care about you.” While I never intended for it to be my last words too him, in retrospect they are quite profound.
I have done everything I can possible do to take care of my issues. If Jamie is not a sociopath, but just a person who’s pain and suffering is deeper than mine, he will find his way into support and as part of his healing process he will need to make amends to those he harmed. I am prepared for that.
If he is a sociopath, he will not seek help. In either case, I have no intention of contacting him, as there is too much risk for *me.*
Finally, I need to be thankful I found that profile of his online. Otherwise, I would have been left thinking I lost something truly special.
Dear Bllue_eyes,
I am glad that my suppport has been helpful to you. LF I think saved my sanity! Unfortunately, there are many at AA who are psychopaths with addictions and when they get sober they are referred to as “dry drunks”—so watch out for those at AA. I am very pro-AA it is a good organization, but it doesn’t look at the TOTAL person only the part that is addicted. Many Ps self-medicate with drugs/alcohol, but when they are “dry” they are still Ps and will take advantage of their positions as “leaders” in AA to con others. Kim can tell you about that! LOL
AA also tends to “blame” all bad behavior on drink or drugs and this is not as lyou know, the case. I am glad that you are sober though, and I encourage you to do whatever it takes to STAY that way for your health if no other reason. You have a second chance at life and I know you do appreciate that chance to build upon as a good life—with or without a partner. But we must become COMPLETE people in order for us to be a worthy parther for someone else who is also COMPLETE then we can SHARE our goodness and our caring. If that makes any sense. If we are not the kind of people we need to be, i.e. HEALTHY, then we will not be able to have a good relationship even with a person who is “prefect” (and of course there is no such person) Bottom line is that WE have to love ourselves in order to be able to find a healthy person who loves themselves. INTER-DEPENDENT relationship not one person dependent upon the other.
I think you are well on your way toward healing, but remember it is a JOURNEY, NOT A DESTINATION.
And BTW don’t hold your breath for Jamie to try to truly make “amends”—thought I bet he WILL show back up at some point when he needs supply. Most of the time they do. Keep NC and don’t even listen! You do not owe him a thing, not even to listen to him.
Hi Oxy and Blue eyes. I felt compelled to jump in here.
While I agree that there is probably a higher than average of the personality disordered in AA, most members are highly ethical people who are taking a hard look at themselves and trying to get well. I don’t agree that AA treats only the addiction, although it may look like that on the surface. I think it’s in the 12 and 12 where it says, “alcohol was only a symptom of our disease.” this implys that there are underlying issues at work, and we need to address them.
that’s why, as soon as we’ve admitted our defeat and hopelessness, reach out and establish faith in a higher power, we begin taking a look at ourselves and our behavior. This is step 4, and the Big Book is quite adament in stating that we are not to focus on the percieved slights of others, but on ourselves. This is not an easy task, especially for those of us who were abused, and it’s not an over night cure. It takes time and patience. It’s a process.
The 12 and 12 also states that “self-centered fear is the chief activator of all our charictor defects.”
What is self centered fear? The fear of losing what we have, or not getting what we want…we replace that fear with faith. We surrender our will.
Our preamble, read at every AA meeting reminds us over and over the importance of honesty.
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
The steps provide us with a decidedly non spath like approach to life, and since most addicts are entirely self-centered and
dishonest (at least about their addictions) this provides a focus and a plan toward a successful life.
There are dry drunks in AA, but they ussually aren’t working the steps…if they’re spaths, you pick it up pretty quickly by their narcissism and lack of humility.
Congrats Blue eyes, on your recovery. Work the steps, get a sponser.
I can totally identify with your resistance to the suggestion that you should pity Jamie, however, I think your fellow members are trying to help you find yourself, and let him go.
Well there I go….preaching again.
These are very focused
behind_blue_eyes:
Hi, I’m Matt (Hi, OxDrover).
You’ve been given a lot of good advice. The one bit of advice I can give you is that sometimes taking a time out is the best course of action.
I, too, lived in NYC until recently. Maybe it’s a function of the internet, maybe it’s a function of NYC being home to 10 million people, but I think that there is this attitude out there that the minute you meet someone, you’re already looking over his/her shoulder and on to the next person. And that, as you have discovered leads from one disastrous relationship to the next, culminating, in my case with my S-ex.
After I broke it off, then I got hit with a layoff. So, I took the time to sit down and get really clear about what I was looking for and really clear about what made me such a magnet for Cluster-Bs. By the time I finally decided to go out and start dating again, I had discarded “my type” and was looking for a whole different set of qualities in the man I chose to get involved with, starting with kindness.
By setting a really hard set of “non-negotiables” and deciding to get to know him before I dove in head first, I was really able to find a quality man. Hell, I must have gotten the system right this time because we’re closing in on a year.
Dear Kim, I agree 110% with you about those who actually work the program of 12 steps, the Ps in AA however, only APPEAR to work the 12 steps, NOT really doing it. They MASK their underlying problem (no conscience) by appearing to be great AA members, just like the FAKE MINISTERS and fake Christians use religion as a COVER, these creeps use AA as a cover and prey on those that ARE trying to work the program. That is why I caution myself and others to not believe somone’s words, but LOOK AT THEIR ACTIONS no matter what position they are in.
Look at the way the Catholic church used its power, authority and so on to COVER UP FOR the pedophiles in the ranks, even all the way to the TOP—the pope himself! Heck, if you can’t trust the Pope, who can you trust in religion? Jim Jones, and so on! Lots of GOOD groups have BAD APPLES, heck one of the apostles betrayed Jesus so I think a word of caution to us ALL is to keep that caution SHARP and always watch the actions not just the words of anyone—even “good” groups!
Good advice too, Matt!!! How is the new job coming along? How does it feel to be the only (or at least one of the FEW) honest attorneys in DC? You swimming with the sharks? LOL
Hope all is well! Enjoying a day in may when it didn’t get to be 60 degrees (it has been 90+!!!!) Won’t be long til I’ll be cursing the temp for being too hot! LOL
Matt, 🙂 So happy for you!
Yes, Oxy, I agree. Never ever have blind faith in anyone…
Now I have a confession to make. As much as I believe in the 12 steps, (for everybody, for every problem, and I do believe in honesty and personal accountability….
I’m having a night-cap as we speak.
Cheers!
Hey, OxDrover:
Life in WDC is going well. Enjoying the new position and enjoying doing my part to put the bad ‘uns away. Found a place to rent so at least I won’t be homeless when the corporate housing goes away. Also signed the contract on my place in NYC, so it looks like I really will be moving down here permanently.
Am going through a bit of NYC withdrawal. Have not found one good pizza place down here. When people suggest Papa Johns or Dominos I look at them like they’re insane. That doesn’t even qualify as edible let alone pizza to New Yorkers. I am convinced I could make millions if I could convince a New York pizzeria to open up down here. Oh, well, I can dream, can’t I? I guess a good ‘za fix qualifies as a reason to visit NYC periodically.
Also, my NYC withdrawal is partially on account of the fact tha I’ve lived there for half my life. My friends are there, my support network is there, I’m comforable there, I have a great place to live there. But, as I’ve learned, you never get all the pieces of your life right at once. If you had asked me 19 months ago, I would have said I had a great job (well, at least I made great money), a great apartment, great friends and, oh, yes, I have this slight problem of a S boyfriend. Then I got rid of the S. Then I lost the job.
So, a year ago, after I met my partner, I would have said I have this great guy, a great apartment, great friends, and, oh, yes, I have this pesky unemployment problem.
And today? Well, I can say I have a great job, a great guy, great friends, and, oh, yes, I’m living out of my suitcase while I’m waiting for the sale of my NYC place to close and hopefully then can find a great apartment.
Yup, you never do get it all at once. But, not haing my S-ex in my life makes the housing situation look trivial in comparison.
As for honest lawyers in WDC, I’ve come to the conclusion that 98 pericent of lawyers are singularly unpleasant individuals. I’m grateful that my contact with them to a minimum.
Meanwhile, how is life in Arkansas? It was freezing in NYC this weekend and actually snowed upstate. It’s in the 50s down here. I have the feeling this is going to be one of those years like 1980 after Mt. St. Helen’s erupted and we didn’t have a summer. Wanda Sykes the commedien said that between the hurricanes, tornadoes and volcanos erupting it’s like Mother Nature is going through menopause. All I know if that’s the case, I want her to go through a prolonged hotflash — like from June 21st through September 21st.
Matt, funny! Mother nature in menopause!
I was tending bar in Washington State when Mt. St Helens Blew. My brother climbed her in his youth…complete with picks and ropes and such. I miss my home, too.
I live in Florida now, for the last 20 years and still can’t handle the humidity…but we adjust. We aclimate and so forth….we withstand the cultue shock.
So, open your own pizza joint and make a killing on the side.
Best wishes Matt.