Recently, a reader posted this in a comment about the father of her children. The comment contains several questions, I’ll address the most concerning first. To read the full comment, see Love Fraud: A spectrum (Part 1).
Another common behavior of my ex that I think affects my children is that he is kind of perverted in what he says and does. When I was married to him, he would continually grab my crotch and butt, and pinch and twist my breasts in a hurtful way, always in front of the children and always against my wishes. He also would say very sexual, inappropriate things. I notice this behavior in my oldest and youngest boys when they come home from his visits. They continually hit and grab the privates of each other in the same way my ex did. I have had to make it very clear that this behavior is not acceptable in my home. My daughter also complains that he says a lot of perverted things to her that make her uncomfortable. She says when she calls him on it, he hangs up and won’t talk to her.
Please be aware that what you describe in terms of the sexual behavior is considered sexual abuse, especially with regard to your daughter. Sandra Brown, MA in her book Counseling Victims of Violence lists as sexual abuse of children:
“-Being made to listen to age- inappropriate dialogue containing sexual jargon or pertaining to sexual acts.
-Being looked or leered at in way that make one feel uncomfortable, or being subjected to inappropriate remarks about one’s developing body.
-Being made to watch or look at age-inappropriate literature, tapes, OR PEOPLE ACTING IN SEXUAL WAYS.” (caps mine)
Sociopaths and narcissists do so many outrageous things that we end up disregarding some of them because to deal with all of their behavior is overwhelming. Since our society is so sexual, there may be a tendency to look the other way regarding violations of sexual boundaries with children. The above behaviors listed by Sandra Brown, MA are clear violations of sexual boundaries that should be in place with children.
Father has also modeled for his sons how to use sex to gain power and abuse women. He models this behavior for his sons when he sexually humiliates their sister in front of them.
I am not suggesting that anyone in this situation, act precipitously to put a stop to it. This poor mother has already been to court once to get visitation restricted and lost. When dealing with sociopaths and narcissists, it is best to get plenty of professionals on your side and to have a well thought out plan.
421dmb2
Your advice to people dealing with these situations is very, very true. It is foolish to procede if you don’t have professionals on your side and you don’t have a well-thought out plan. Don’t even bother to seek the help of the courts if you don’t. The odds are against you if you are trying to show emotional or sexual abuse. It is difficult to get professionals on your side if they come into the situation after the marriage separation occurs, especially if your ex is a good liar. The professionals will not know who to believe. Documentation is very important. Keep all notes and phone messages. If you can, have neighbors document any crazy behavior they have witnessed. I would even suggest taping phone calls. The calls can not be used in court, but they can be given to professionals so that they “hear” the truth and support you. I would also have the police document events…even if the police give you a hard time…be persistent. You need documentation. Also, recently I have read about psychologist who have become specialized in legal matters regarding these kinds of personalities. They are very expensive, but I think they are necessary because they know how to piece all the information together to the courts. They also will only advocate for what is best for the children. It sounds like they really comb through the evidence…to determine what is going on…and then develop a plan with your lawyers on how to present it all. They also provide coaching for how to present your side to the GAL. I found out about these psychologist consultants after the fact. I think it would be a great service to readers of this site, if we could look into these psychologists, determine if they are really and truly qualified, and then provide their names as a resource. I think I put too much faith in the court system, and in the lawyers and counselors involved in my case. You can not do that. They may not understand sociopaths and narcissists and can easily misguide you.
bibleannie
I have seen S give my 4 year old grandson painful wedgies. Or he would pinch his but or grab at it when he walked by. This continued until I put an end to it by telling S that it was inappropriate.
Also S’s real dad while we visited them a few years back joked about how he would rub his little bichons pee pee. (His dad was intoxicated like he is every single night and when I gave him this really shocked look, he just shrugged his shoulders and in a baby voice said to S, well doesn’t it feel good when someone rubs your pee pee? Of course S’s mom laughed right along with everyone else.
bibleannie
And, just recently this past week, while my daughter who is 21 was visiting for a few days heard a remark made totally in her presence about how he could see my camel toe. Not sure if you all know what that is, but it’s a part of my anatomy. I gave him a disgusted look and said, stop it, that is so no appropriate. He shrugged it off and acted like nothing was out of the ordinary.
kim frederick
Bibleannie, One word about the IL’s behavior,”ewwwwwwww”.
bibleannie
kim,
even more than that possibly “beastialiity”?
Stayingsane
I picked up on my P ex BF’s behavior around his 7 year old niece…he was inappropriately using “bad language” laughing AT and encouraging her when she played with her toys in a sexual way….he wolf whistled… he actually wolf whistled..that’s the perviest signal but yes I was overwhelmed with red flags and was hormonally bonded to him making denial my first port of call…(so sorry now) all I could say was..please remember she is first a child and second a lady…please treat her accordingly..(I know…he just looked through me like a blade of glass …I knew, I knew what he was even then, and sadly I deluded myself for another year…culminating in me warning his mother, the child’s mother and father that he was not safe to be alone with a child. (She had left her child over with him for 2 months in the summer…) They all treated me like I was deranged…but at least I warned them. It’s not that he would overtly sexually abuse, but he grooms….yes it was deffnitely grooming her into a certain way of being a female…
bibleannie
my s in his last marriage was the stepfather of a girl and a boy. He told me that in those kids eyes, he hung the moon. That their mother was bi-polar, wouldn’t take care of the house or laundry or her kids.
What I’ve gathered is that he became the c hildrens caregiver. That their mom refused to take her medicine because she put on weight.
Back to the point! For some reason this women moved out and took her kids. He pretty quick moved to another state to start over. That’s when I met him.
During one of our many, many moves in 3 years, I found at the bottom of his wardrobe bag, another bag at the very bottom and I dumped it on the floor. Just at that moment he walked in the room, saw the boys and girls soiled underware laying there and loioked panicked….stupid stupid me, I was in such shock that I told myself it had to be something he dragged along with him without realizing what was in the bag. No other bags at all, just this one.
Anyway, I just said to throw them out. And, the most unbelieveable thing is just 5 minutes before this happened, he was outside (intoxicated) with a friend he reconnected with from his wild years, at they were loading up the truck with furn, my S told this guy the joke about being kicked out of girlscouts for eating a brownie. I apologize for how sick that is, but the worst part about it if it could be any worse, was that the little 11 year old neighbor girls just happened to be walking by when he jokingly said this to his friend. All this within 10 minutes.
God was telling me at that time to run like fire, but I was already in shock as I just lost my dad a week earlier. My mind was so foggy from greif.
Can a S change in two years since this happened> I have wanted to believe over and over again, he just got better and better at playing the role of what he thought I want to see.
Thank you Lord for this website.
Ox Drover
QUOTE: STAYING SANE: “It’s not that he would overtly sexually abuse, but he grooms”.yes it was deffnitely grooming her into a certain way of being a female” ”
DON’T BET ON THAT BEING TRUE—more of them act on that than you might imagine!
onajourney
bibleannie,
I am so glad you have “come out of the fog” that you said you were in after your father’s death and now see that your s is “getting better at playing the role of what he thought you wanted to see”. Start making plans to seperate from this man. You are in some kind of weird game and will not see clearly until you get some distance from him. I am so glad you “woke up” and found this site! If he is an s – he won’t change. You will just spend the rest of your life trying to get him to change.
neveragain
Oxy, AGREE!