By | June 4, 2010 97 Comments

“Beware of Greeks bearing gifts”

By Ox Drover

When I was a kid growing up, one of the “old sayings” that was bandied around the family was the one about “Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.” As a small child this didn’t make any sense, since there weren’t any Greeks that I knew of living anywhere around where we lived in central Arkansas. (The phrase actually refers to the story of the ancient Greeks invading Troy by hiding soldiers in a massive wooden horse that was given to the city as a gift—the Trojan Horse.)

This saying could have been paraphrased as “beware of ANYONE that you don’t trust bearing gifts.”

Many cultures teach their children that if someone does a favor for you, the “law of reciprocity” means you are indebted to them if you accept the favor. My own culture, the Scots-Irish, will do a favor for almost anyone, but will only accept a favor from someone who is a very close friend or relative, and very trusted.

Giving to a neighbor

When we moved back to Arkansas on a small 6-acre farmette, my son and I purchased some dairy goats, as he was allergic to cow milk. Goats are like rabbits and multiply rapidly, and before long we were milking seven, with much more milk than we could use, so we fed it to young pigs.

One of our neighbors, who lived on a large farm, had found an orphan deer and they were bottle feeding it. I know that deer are first cousins to goats, and that a baby deer will literally starve to death on cow milk. I asked them if they would like some goat milk to feed their baby deer, and told them I was literally pouring out excess milk. They refused to take it, but later came back begging to buy it because their baby deer was starving to death! Being the contrary person that I am, I REFUSED TO SELL IT TO THEM, but would GIVE IT TO THEM. Knowing what I was doing, I actually forced these people who didn’t know me very well to accept a favor from me.

I knew these people were uncomfortable by accepting a gift from a relative stranger, so I put them between a rock and a hard place. They were forced to choose between letting their pet starve, or accepting a favor from me. They took the favor, and afterwards we became very, very good friends, until their deaths some 20 years later.

I guess really this was sort of “mean” of me to knowingly make them uncomfortable, because I knew their cultural prejudices and I knew why they were reluctant to take the milk when I first offered  it to them. I could have chosen to sell the milk to them and had an “even trade.” I decided, though, that I wanted them for friends, and by making them accept my favor, I knew they would think I was the “best neighbor.”

Gifts and trust

Many of us have the same feelings, though they are maybe not conscious, but more subconscious, that people who do nice things for us when they first meet us are courtly, generous, giving, helpful, etc. We think they are more trustworthy than they really are.

Me giving those people milk, knowing I had them in a place they could hardly refuse, that they wouldn’t refuse, and knowing it would raise me in their esteem unconsciously, wasn’t for any financial or other kind of gain. But if I had been a psychopath, it very well could have been. Within a month of meeting me and accepting the gift of the milk, those people would have given me the keys to their house. I was a trusted family friend.

Have you ever met someone who instantly wanted to be your “best friend?” Who wanted to do things for you or give you things when you hardly know them? Psychopaths frequently do this, and it is sometimes called the “love bomb.” The potential victim is “set up” by the cult or abuser by being very, very giving and generous to them with kind words, kind deeds, and other things that will raise the psychopath in the esteem of the victim. “He is so sweet, he brought me roses every time we went out.”  “He is just such a wonderful person.”

Psychopathic ex

Actually, bringing me roses doesn’t prove you are a nice person. Or, like my psychopathic now ex-boyfriend, mowing my egg donor’s yard, or helping out around my farm, didn’t mean he was a nice guy. About a week after I started dating him, my washing machine died. I mentioned I was going to have to get another one the next day, and he immediately said, ”Oh, I’ll buy you a new washer.”

Immediately my WARNING: RED FLAG sign went up (“Beware of new friends bearing gifts”) and I thanked him but said, “No, thank you, that’s way too big a gift for you to get me, I’ll buy my own.” He was actually offended and sort of “huffed” about the rest of the evening. I later found out that he had bought large items for his harem of girlfriends while he was married, even paid their rent, etc. I didn’t, however, ACT ON  the “warning” at that time; I only realized it later.

Money from mom

After my late husband was killed and I retired, I had no real pressing financial needs as everything I own was paid for. My egg donor, who is probably quite a bit better off financially than I am, though, kept asking me if I “needed money.” I always told her, “Nope, I’m doing fine, thanks.”

However, she did this frequently enough that it got to be kind of a strain between us. Finally she said one day, with frustration in her voice, “You wouldn’t take it if you did need it, would you?”

Though we were still at that time on “good terms,” I told her “Honestly, no I wouldn’t. I’m a big girl and I have lived within my means since I have been an adult and supported myself. The only money I ever took from you was the money I borrowed from you for the kids’ school tuition while I was in college and I paid that back.”

Later, when I went to the probate court to get the Trojan Horse Psychopath tossed out of her home, and my cousin appointed as her power of attorney (she had taken me off and appointed my DIL who was later arrested after stealing $24,000 from mother and trying to kill my other son), my mother told her attorney how “generous she had been to me.” I guess she was referring to the $100 she had given me for my birthdays and once when she had given me $10,000 at Christmas “so the IRS won’t get it after I’m dead.” (Mind you, not because she wanted to give it to me, but to keep the IRS from getting it.)


Reciprocity is a good thing. My best friend and I do things for or give each other things all the time. We don’t even keep any “score” on who has done the most for the other. But over all, it “evens out” through the years. This year she may do more for me, or I may do more for her, but it has never been one sided. That’s the way it should be. Some give and some take in relationships. Not one-sided.

Especially in new relationships, notice the reciprocity, or lack of it, in the relationship. Does it come on too fast? Are they trying to give too much or take too much? Are they trying to push the relationship too fast forward so that you don’t have time to really get to know them in a variety of situations? If so, be aware that you should keep an eye on “new friends who come bearing way too many gifts, way too soon.”

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super chic

Thank you for the warning.
Since I was the one who was always spending MY money…
I wouldn’t be suprised if I went over the deep end
if somebody spent money on me.
I get it!!!!


Good reminders!!!!!


I think there is a fine line between being cautious and looking at all people as if they have an ulterior motive. Oxy, thanks for reminding us of the Trojan horse. The commonality in the experience is painfully striking.

People – less and less so – do wonderful things out of goodness of their hearts. Bringing a smile to another whom you will never meet again can a great joy.


Ox Drover

Yeah that “reciprocity”thing, if I’d only just noticed the spending, the gifts, the minding, the love was MOSTLY coming from me AT THE END and it seemed like my love was going into a black abyss, no matter how much love I felt, the great surges of passion, emotion..there was NO RECIPROCITY just an ACT (that was wearing thin over time) a very shallow, cheap, plastic, false, fraudulent, gimmicky (he would even put on a face and flutter his eyelashes like a little cute boy…makes me want to hurl) he just took and took as much as his grabby little hands could get. eeeew yeuk splutter bleach!!! off with his head!!!


Sadly I must confess that part of my approval seeking IN THE PAST, was big surprises for people. Not so much costly as time consuming. And I flooded the n/s with them! It came from a different place than the manipulative gifts of n/s….but still not a healthy place. Reeked of self-sacrifice and a plea to be loved.

Thinking of those gifts embarrasses me now, but I don’t feel angry about them….because my intent was not to manipulate, so I don’t care that he didn’t hardly acknowledge them, much less thank me.

But I am embarrassed that I gave too much too soon. I was giving to a fantasy in my head that he helped to create, but so did I.

Ha! No more! Now I can’t even get “into” romantic movies…..I’m so on guard now to false statements that I feel like screaming at the characters about the foolish assumptions they are making. A movie like “Golden Pond” (an oldie) I can buy the romance….they had a lot invested in each other.

That’s not to say that you can’t surprise someone, but it is not good to either GIVE too much, or RECEIVE too much. Reciprocity is vital in relationships.

Ox Drover

Neveragain, I think most of us here tended to give waaay too much toward the ends of the relationship, but looking back at the beginning of the relationships, they made us feel TRUSTING and cared-for by their early “gifts”–maybe not monetary— but the “kindness” and “love” they showed early on. (too kind, too early!)

Don’t be embarassed that you were too willing to give, it only expresses the caring in your heart! I too hoped for love and caring in return for my love and cariing (reciprocity) but I’m not embarassed that I kept on giving because my care and my giving was from the HEART.

The “Greeks bearing gifts” who are giving you a “gift” that is simply a trick to get you to trust them, so they can destroy you, or a down payment on control, they are the ones to be ashamed, but aren’t.

I love to find really wonderful “perfect” gifts for my close friends and son D, but I can never wait for birthday or Christmas to see the delight on their faces so I always give them as soon as I find them. One of the most appreciated ones I think, was an old, perfectly preserved “Boys Life” (Boy Scout magazine) from the year he was born for son D. It cost me $2 at a “junk” store.

If gifts are carefully and thoughtfully chosen they don’t have to be “expensive,” in terms of money, to be pleasing to the one receiving them, if that person cares about you. An inexpensive but thoughtfully chosen gift is always well received and is pleasing to someone who cares about YOU.


one of the gifts the P gave me AT THE BEGINNING love bombing stage was an original painting….it immediately gave me the creeps, but I felt so Bad for thinking it….He asked me if I really liked it and I had to say the truth which was….no it’s not my style but hey….it’s ok maybe my style needs a kick up the behind…eh yeah in future don’t buy me a painting, it’s so intimate and clearly we do not know each other well enough…nah I didnt say it, the pheremones were wafting and I would have followed him to the ends of the earth…which is actually what I did…Earth ended after loving him….

Ox Drover

B ullet, when my washing machine died and my NEW (like less than a week) BF offered to buy me a new one, I immediately felt it was TOO SOON and TOOO BIG a gift for a new relationship, but it was his way of trying to “buy” me, because he knew he would carp on me sooner or later, so he could say “but look what I bought you”—all through the relationship he kept trying to do or buy SHOW OFF that he could AFFORD to buy others gifts. Most of his GFs were fairly cash strapped, but though my income is low, I don’t have any bills to pay except utilities etc so I wasn’t in the position of “needing” his help buying a washer.

Also, I had grown up LEERY of accepting BIG or otherwise “inappropriate” gifts from male friends or BFs. The social rules have changed since then but it is still a good idea to not take BIG or inappropriate GIFTS or FAVORS from people you don’t know or trust. Many times these manipulators will use Gifts or good deeds to trick us into TRUSTING them.

The old “look what I have done for you” ploy when you object to doing them a favor or giving them money (later) or if you object to their ill treatment.

Yea, BEWARE of anyone you don’t trust or know well who tries to be TOO NICE OR TOO GIVING TOO SOON!


the painting was of Paris (eiffel tower, people walking) but it was in black and white I asked a girlfriend of mine what she thought of it and she said Bulletproof (have to hide my real name) Paris aint black and white!!!, and scratchy, pointy, it showed no emotion, it was a painting that just literally “scratched the surface”…..I hate that. I would never buy that. I am so the opposite of that, I love Mark Rothko (abstract spiritual beautiful if you have a soul) the P could not “get” my taste in painting….eh RED FLAG!!!! aaargh why didnt I listen to my instinct!!!!The P was a walking red flag but very attractive what can I say….


SHit….my ‘greek’ STOLE every gift he gave to me……either that or traded it for drugs, I now know!
Although…come to think of it…..he did buy me a bracelet…..that he bought from the pawn shop.

Such a gem……



The man who bought you that painting is a gaslighter.

Instead of buying you something that YOU loved, it sounds like he bought you something that HE loved, or what he wanted you to have.

It seems like you had no emotional connection to this painting.
But, he sure “appeared” to be a nice boyfriend by purchasing a painting for you.

Ladies, watch out for these types of men.
They want to come off as looking like they are romantic and attentive boyfriends.
But, in actuality, it’s all about them.

In the book, “The Gaslight Effect”, Robin Stern calls these types of people “Glamour” Gaslighters or “Good Guy” Gaslighters.

Also, I have found that P’s are not always the best gift-givers.
It could be as simple as that.

Ox Drover

Dear Rosa, People who do not understand or really KNOW you cannot buy a “gift” that you will really like because they don’t know what you like and what you don’t. Or like my X-BF-P he wanted to buy me a big flashy and costly gift to make himself seem great, not even knowing that it would actually in my mind be almost like a guy getting out of bed with you and handing you money thinking he was “being nice to you” LOL

Buying a wonderful or gret gift is not about spending lots of money it is CHOOSING something perfect because you know what they like. Some of the MOST INEXPENSIVE GIFTS I ever gave were the most appreciated because it was something my friend would like and treasure not because of COST but because they liked that sort of thing and someone who was not close to them wouldn’t know that that particular item would really please them.

I must admit that my late husband bought me gifts that HE wanted or HE thought were cool, not what I would have enjoyed more, but I NEVER TOLD HIM that, because I didn’t want to hurt his feelins and I knew he would be hurt—the fact that he WANTED to get me something that he THOUGHT would be REALLY COOL was enough of a gift in itself! And I admit that some of them were fun things, a 1969 Cadillac convertible with the tail fins, painted bright yellow!!! 22 feet long, I looked like HIGHWAY EQUIPMENT coming down the road, either that, or a PIMP! It was “show room new” and had been completely restored like new Except I doubt that any one of them were ever that AWFUL SHADE of yellow when they came out of the factory!

The last thing he got me was a 1966 diesel mersades with only 66,000 miles on it and previously 1 owner. (I am the second) It is cute and does get good milage but I like my pick up! LOL But he TRIED and I liked that! The thing is though, that ANYONE who really doesdn’t know you and tries to buy you a gift of any substance is really I think not about YOU but about THEM.

If someone is just trying to be nice they get you a SMALL, tasteful or useful GENERIC gift….but nothing personal (like a bottle of perfume or slinky underware) IF THERE IS AN OCCASION where it is appropriate. Like a new neighbor might bring over a caserole dish of food, but not a new lawn mower! LOL


i have a big bag of bullshit promises. that’s what i got.

and i won’t list what i gave – it was too much. and i didn’t give as much as i wanted to at the time.


i am listening to joan osborne’s, ‘what if god was one of us’. in it she posited the question, ‘if you could ask god one question what would it be?’ today, it would be, ‘why?’why the spath, why that pain for me?

it’s a young one’s cry from my scraped and raw heart. i honour you, young heart. she was a horror show for us. and she will be a nightmare in the world until she dies. or someone kills her. it won’t be me. ethically and emotionally i think i could. but it isn’t legal, and i am not going to jail.

it is such a hard thing to accept – the presence of evil that we cannot rid the world of. in general, the way to feel empowered, is to accept and find a way to empower others, help others. I can’t. i am too fraking triggered by it all….i feel truly disempowered. i often feel like i have crude oil stuck to me – canna move, canna fly, dragged down by the slime of it. i have to change this, or she ‘wins’.



I can totally relate to what you just said:

“it is such a hard thing to accept ”“ the presence of evil that we cannot rid the world of.”

I do not feel empowered, yet, but lately I’ve been feeling little spurts of it coming back. Everyday of re-building and watching my children grow in safety and happiness – peace. Like watching new life sprout out of scorched ground.

I don’t expect to ever feel completely empowered, again. How could I ever forget the truth I’ve learned about the world – that it’s imperfect, that there are truly evil people, and that wrong things happen all the time, with no justice.

Instead, I’m resolved to adapt. Let life (I think God) teach me about itself. Accept life for its fragility and beauty, in the midst of chaos and destruction.

Maybe that’s why God put these people on the earth. To remind us to feel blessed when we have moments of peace, purity and happiness – and when we (if we’re so lucky) to find love.

Ox Drover

Dear PureWAters,

WELCOME to LF! Glad you are here, and actually you sound like you are ADAPTING very well! It is adapt or die where these people are concerned because if they don’t kill us physically, they kill our souls!

Glad you are here, keep on learning, adapting and growing!

Again, welcome and God bless.


Purewaters –

i am rebuilding my life also, small steps at a time. it’s quite a wasteland and i am not well physically. or should i say chronically ill? that’s more accurate. but, where i am getting hitched up is that the ppath and life are such different things…i need a bridge from one to the other inside of me. and i don’t know if that can happen until i bring this out to the light of day. it’s like having an awful secret, in as much as i am ashamed and embarrassed at how my ability to function has been severely compromised (PTSD), and i see choice eroding before me (not like i wasn’t challenged to begin with) and i want to scream, ‘it was her fault’! but their is no easy justice. sometimes it is all too much.



I know it now….but I thought he was so cute to buy me a painting like a guy who buys flowers, he knew I loved art…you know this P had’nt an artistic bone in his body..he didn’t appreciate the aesthetic, he did’nt understand it but it was a clever move, He Bought something outside his realm of understanding…for me. Art like poetry and literature capture the complexity of what it is to BE HUMAN…psychopaths havent a clue how to interpret art…are there any art loving psychopaths out there? NO


bulletproof – mine seems to have an eye.

mind you, she might also be stealing others’ ideas of what good art is. sigh.

she sure can con artists too.



“are there any art loving psychopaths out there? NO”

Ummm….Wow, BulletProof……I think I could debate you on this question.

I think I may have actually met an art-loving psychopath (or something) right here on this site.

It was a while ago, and only a few LF members will know what I’m talking about.
So, I will refrain from saying any more.

But, let’s just say that I do not believe an “art-loving P” is outside the realm of possibilities.
I think there may actually be a few out there.



I am sorry to hear of your PTSD. That’s a horrible thing, and I can’t imagine what your sociopath did to you to cause such an awful reaction.


HAHAHAHAHAHA…..YES……I can vouch for the above!!!!!

Damn girl… got the brunt of that one too! 🙂

I think there are Spaths EVERYWHERE….
Now whether they really like ‘whatever’ or not, if it’s a cover or not……is to be debated.

My MIL is (if not) close to spath……and she’s an artist……I also have an ex boss how is an artist who is at very least narcissistic.


I think the above should be corrected to:

“I don’t want to imagine what happened…”

(as it’s probably horrific)



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Ah, thanks, Rosa!


The gift giving thing has been a mystery to me. He pursued me hard and I fell for it. At first, his gifts were normal and fitting. He had a few that were masked for him, the tread mill when he was training for a marathon. As his spathyness got worse, the gifts got more elaborate. Oh, there was the time he was going to surprise me (with lights turned off, etc.) but since I got home at 6:30 instead of 6:00, he just sat at the kitchen table and barely looked at me. “I guess we should have cake”. That was interesting.

Then he started buying ‘thoughtful’ gifts. I don’t know exactly why he did this, maybe because he thinks he’s the most sensitive guy he knows and he has to live up to the image. There were diamonds of all sorts, front row seats to Paul McCartney, a suv, trips, pearls, concerts, golf clubs, watches, the year he got me a diamond bracelet, he was so removed emotionally, it was weird. It was like, “just get the more expensive one, you deserve it” but he was acting like a big shot and thinking he was all that.

He has laughed at some of the gifts I got him. He smirks and will be condescending.

I always thought, he must love me because he buys me these beautiful things. Maybe that was his game all along. Manipulation. I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that everything he has done is an act. How can it be? How is it possible to be so generous but it be an act?


By the way, everytime I start to write about these things, I get so freaking sad. I just don’t understand it and I desperately need to. How can it be just a mindf***? All the affection he shows, all the gifts, but then there is the other side. I try and be strong, but I just can’t. And now I sound like “poor me”. It’s so stupid.


Only when you ‘step out’ from the fire will you be able to see where it started.

You must be removed to see things clearly….your still under his ‘influence’.

He buys nice things because he ‘can’ and this is what he thinks is expected of him……so he must play along.
It’s all about what HE get’s from it…..

Keep your strength girl!!!!


hope4joy – you don’t sound self pitying to me. and you don’t have to be ‘strong’ – but you do have to ‘get it’.

and you will. it takes time, and effort. and sometimes the effort is to just feel the sad and let it tell you the truth.

and it CAN all be a load of crap. All of it.


yeah I guess an art loving P is of course possible now that I think of it, why not? and the point about the con being an art form, their acting ability, their mimmicking ability is all pretty arty…they could appreciate a “perfect” art form but I doubt a painting would move them to tears unless it fell off the wall and onto their head.

Hopeforjoy- the “thoughtful” “sensitive” gifts are so hard to give up!!! I so wanted to believe the beautiful sham…He would bring me coffee, he would snuggle on the sofa watching TV, he bought me a little teddy bear with a love heart on it (The only gift I cannot throw out) The painting is on the skip, The glass ornament smashed, the silver watch I never wear but I may give it away soon…it was the little “sensitive” displays of love that I would be afraid to list in case some P learns from it…but all of these ‘displays’ were the cunning work of a budding psychopath grooming me to rob money “down the road” when I was well and truly in love and trust with the act….so sad that I fell in love with an act..what a humiliating thing to find out your lover might as well be a stuffed corpse…we are necrophiliacs…we fell in love with dead people!! ha ha joke…but there’s a grain of truth in this!!!

one step sorry to hear you are ill on top of all this nightmare. It’s bad enough trying to get through it well but sick? too much. Not fair. I am shaking my fist at the heavens for that one….you put it very well when you say let your sadness tell you the truth…that’s what we need to do.

Yes discovering evil in the world has been a devastating blow to my faith in mankind, it’s over as far as i’m concerned, the innocent assumption people are good…all it takes is one psychopath


Hope Yessss! the P would smirk at gifts I got him (and his son) it was like they were ‘never enough’ he wanted more…he was so condescending…it made me feel so creeped out…red flag come in red flag


When spath turned 40, I had worked VERY hard and made some extra money……along with a bonus I received.
He had mentioned he wanted a jet ski in one conversation with his ‘friend’….I overheard.
I always wrestled with gifts for him, because nothing was ever exciting to him… at 40….I thought…..i’ll blow his mind….he’ll never expect this, and it will be a good family ‘toy’ to bring us closer…..or at least spend family time together.

So….the morning of his birthday… /dog and I drove down about 3 hours from house to pick up a jetski I had found in a shop. It was a demo jet ski and trailer.
We left at the crack of dawn……and as we left I kissed him and wished him a happy birthday and said we’d be back.
He drilled me on where we were going…..I said,it’s a surprise….(He later said he thought we were leaving him)????
My mind vs his mind…….HELLLLLOOOOO!!!!!!

I had a surprise party planned at the beach later that day and we showed up pulling the jet ski with kids riding it on the trailer and a great big bow….honking.

His reaction was as if I had given him a bag of lentils.
Everyone at his party, all his friends were so excited, he was drab.
Everyone came over and was checking it out etc…..and he wouldn’t even sit on it. Didn’t want to put it in the water……or take it out.

Later that night…..I was still trying to keep my joy alive….I said……howd you like the jet ski……his response ……I thought you bought me a truck. I woulda liked a truck better, why do I need a jetski? A TRUCK????? WHere did that come from??? We never discussed a truck….EVER????
A TRUCK?????
I was blown away trying to process this…….I went to great effort to surprise him with something he said he would like….I had NEVER done anything like this….I had a surprise party for him at the beach….(because he said NObody had ever had a party for him)……AND he still wasn’t happy…..
I thought he’d be thrilled…..with the whole plan…..but no…..He comes up with something so bizaar like…..a TRUCK?
First he thought I was leaving him that morning…..
THEN he said he thought I was going to buy him a truck……

He only took kids out a handful of times……it was his toy to flaunt with the ladies…..Often I would hear from clients on the lake ….’HEY, I saw spath on the lake with a girl on the back of the jetski…..I’d say….Oh, yeah…..that’s our babysitter’…..NEVER thinking what he was REALLY doing.

That was IT…….I never bought him anything from that point forward…….I ‘forgot’ his next birthday…..afterall….he was the one who always said….’it’s just another day’… that was how I treated it…..just another day!

And to top it off……..I NOW can fulfill the idea of spending time with the family on the jet ski……WITHOUT HIM……

Guess who’s got it now! 🙂



JET SKI THE HELL AWAY FROM HIM GIRL……it’s funny, I’m laughing, maybe I should be cryin but hey I’m beginning to really see how fu66ing stupid they are, really geeky….wanting a truck!
But it reminds me of the P in my life, he wanted a frickin SNOW PLOUGH/TRACTOR/ truck ha ha ha it must be a thing with them …oh my God what an a$$holery of a man! he wanted a TRACTOR that could do everything…he had the brochure out fondling the pages, fluttering his eyelashes at me saying…”love…if we had this, this would be our business, I could go out and clear snow, plough fields, carry stuff to and fro……thank god I was kind of smiling to myself at that stage thinking hell this guy is a prostitute for the snow plough….oh’s hilarious and thanks EB for giving me a laugh!

Ox Drover

Dear EB

Well, since we are trying to “top that” LOL About a week before my BIRTHDAY a time I thought would have been a really GOOD timem for the P-BF to actually BUY me something we were at a living history event and there were always people there buying and trading things, and I saw a Native American necklace I really would have liked to have, so I took him over to show it to him. He BOUGHT IT—FOR HIMSELF!!!!! LOL Doesn’t quite top your story of the party and the jet ski, but doggone, they are weird creatures!

But that’s okay, now I don’t have anything that he gave me (I would have hated to have thrown that back in his face) I gave away or threw away any gifts that the egg donor gave me simply because I didn’t want them around to remind me of the “Love” in them.



“His reaction was as if I had given him a bag of lentils.”

Yes, these socios never miss an opportunity to be UNDERwhelmed, especially when they are receiving a nice gift.
I think they see how eager we are to please them, and they are overcome with contempt.
Because after all, they don’t feel a damn thing.
They love to take the wind out of our sails, so that we will be as miserable as they are.
Or maybe they are clueless as to how they should react.
Who knows?

If you would have bought him a truck, he would have said, “All I wanted was a jet-ski.”
Call it a hunch.

Lentils….I suspect he’ll be eating plenty of those where he’s going…if it comes to that.


He bought it for himself!!!!????

Oh yeah…….like no others huh!!! DANG!!!


One thing I remember from the beginning….was if he knew I was excited about something……he’d play along and then drop the let down. I would be devastated.
He’d buy concert tix for my fav. bands for the summer……I’d be sooooo excited……and as I waited for him to pick me up……he wouldn’t show….or he’d call and say he didnt want to take me…..

Total puppeteir…..and I wiggled for him with each pull of the string!!!!!


Who’s the stupid one…….I think this is why I continue to remain vigilant. Because I don’t want him catching me off guard ever again!!!!
Now….if anyone let’s me down once…..your out!


Wow……fall off the map for a few days, and miss EVERYTHING.

OxD, this is a SPECTACULAR article. The giving of gifts is something that I’ve noticed to be in hyperstate with people who fit the profile.

The ex spath was very generous when we began dating. Purchased gifts of clothing, flowers, and so forth. Once the nuptials were done, THAT WAS IT. Then, it was up to ME to find him a job, pay the rent, see to all of our financial needs, etc. Throughout the marriage, every “gift” that I received was duly pounded into my face as a tit-for-tat ploy. “I gave you THAT, now you must _____!” What happened towards the end was that he was purchasing Christmas gifts using a credit account that he had opened in my name without my knowledge. Yeah, I could have fought it in court, but I just wanted the hell out and took the bad credit hit.

The spath son was diagnosed as spath, and last year he offered to gift me a very expensive pottery kiln with a portion of the proceeds from his father’s death settlement. I politely declined the “offer,” and told him that I would purchase my own equipment. Then, other “gifts” were promised in the offing – my own family heirlooms that the ex spath had held hostage over the years, and photographs as well. I told him that I didn’t want ANY of it – sell it, give it away, etc.

I also learned with the former spath friend that gifting people came with a very high price tag. At Christmas, she was given a number of things that she had asked for and NONE of them were the right kind, brand, or type. NOTHING was good enough. She gave US booze which sat in the home where she’s leeching herself – we didn’t take it home with us as I was apalled. I made a set of pottery cups for her, and she looked at them as if they were a jar of pickles and said, “Oh, they’re nice. Thanks.”

The giving of gifts should come from the heart and not with an emotional price tag. This is a very, VERY good article, OxD. Thanks so much!


I may have mentioned this in another post, but the younger son brought some of the jewelry up with him during a visit, last year. It was in a ziploc baggie, and I thanked him, very much, for bringing it.

After he went back, I took the whole lot and, piece by piece, tossed it all off of a bridge into a creek. This was exensive turquoise jewelry, and I could have tried selling it or giving it away. But, my PERSONAL feeling is that things – objects – can absorb negative energy, or evil, just as easily as a human being can. So, perhaps, after the water has washed the evil away, someone will find them and they’ll be whole and clean.

This practice has taken on some popularity among folks that I know – everyone’s tossing out or burning “gifts” from people who fit the profile and it’s a cleansing ritual.


this topic is so close to my heart. how ‘he’ didn’t respond to what i made for ‘him’ was a red flag. i truly didn’t understand ‘his’ lack of responsiveness. i am a good artist and was responding to special times and things ‘he’ liked.

i made ‘him’ beautiful photographs – I made ‘him’ a few series that were gorgeous. the last 2 sets ‘he’ never commented on. so many things i gave ‘him ‘ he never commented on.

one set of photos i made for ‘him’ that ‘he’ never commented on – i posted a couple of them somewhere and another of the sock puppets bitched me out about it, then later ‘he’ expressed unhappiness about it too.


Funny how the things that hurt the most at the time and had left me the most bewildered also inflame me to the point of incineration. all this anger can’t be good for my heart. sigh. what a horrid f88king nightmare this woman is, and what a nightmare she launched me into.


onesteppers Bewildered is a good word when it comes to explaining what these f88ks do. I hope you can soon let go of this anger.. I guess I will never understand more than I do now, just be glad it’s over is all I can say..When we went to CO I ‘we’ bought some really nice art..when he left final time he asked if he could have it. I said yes take it, I didnt want the reminder of the day we bought it, that was a good day I thot…Hope his new love enjoys looking at it, I am sure X never tells him he and his X bought it while on vacation in CO..if they are still together who knows who cares…

Ox Drover

Dear Buttons,

Yea, those “gifts” that are “payments on control” are a way to subtly abuse and to get people in the FOG, Fear, Obligation and Guilt.”

“Well, he did do X for me or buy me Y, so he must be a good guy?” NOOOOOOO!!!!! I found this out with my X-In-laws (the male was a P) they did things for us that we didn’t even want them to do, then “charged” us for what they did, IN QUARTS OF EMOTIONAL BLOOD!!!! I doubt that my poor X-huisband ever broke away from those emotional vampires even if they are dead now, he was so hooked into trying to please them that he dissociated to the max from what was going on.

Gosh I wish I had known then what I know now about psychopaths, but….(sigh) I didn’t, so probably couldn’t have rescued him anyway! LOL I have learned we have to rescue ourselves and can’t do it with others.


hens – up and down over here – and not in a good way.

lots of health and pain issues (configuring speech recognition software tonight – my hands are not good) and i am seeing more ‘wreckage’ – losing friends, feeling scared about the next few weeks and money, still looking for work, have a bit of writign work – but need hands good for that. so lots of worry. trying to not push myself, but dang it’s hard to not be able to get much done.

but what can i do? really i am doing the best i can. it just kinda sucks compared to what i could do before.

i have a 2nd interview for a position later this week. not sure i can even do the job, with my PTSD brain and all the pain. I have put a lot into getting it though. 2 more days of prep to go.

i want to take care of myself and be loving to myself and fuck everyone else if they can’t deal with my new normal. sure wish i didn’t have to work. 😉

anywho….bet you look dashing with your eye patch. stay away from ‘depth’ sports…like driving.


Onestep Bless your heart I wish I had a magic wand to wave over your head and take all your problems away.. I was wanting to tell you about Posey my 9 pound weiner dog, she is a bunnie murderer, I was so upset with her she didnt eat it, she just killed it cause she could I guess..and Crickit ran off the other day for about 4 hours, finally came home covered in ticks and all scratched up, I am sure she was lost, I was beside myself with worry as I have seen a mountain lion down the road a few times rules have changed around here and I am keeping them confined more..Harley sits in his chair and watches all this drama out the window under the comfort of the air conditioning..

Ox Drover

Dear One,

Take care of you sweetie! Looking back now I think of all the times I was IN DESPERATE NEED OF CARE, and I didn’t even realize it. Heck I had Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever for over 2 months and was so sick I could hardly walk (literally!!) and thought it was “stress” until I finally realized I was running high fevers at night! Went to the doctor and he found that, but though I also had something else cause I was SO sick and WEAK.

While I was falling apart I was FOCUSED on my anger and rage at the Ps, and the carp they were pulling! I know it is hard to let go of the sheet they pull, or did pull, and your anger at it, but you can only get better if your STRESS level can go down and as long as you focus on that anger etc. the stress level won’t go down.

You dont have to give it up forever if you don’t want to, but what about PACKING IT UP IN A BOX, and putting it away for now in to “storage”—and every time you start to think about it or feel about it, say to yourself “That’s in storage, I don’t have time for it today, so I am going to focus on things that need to be done TODAY That can Wait!”

It sounds crazy but it does help, it works.!!!! (((Hugs))))


It’s amazing how much we learn after being involved with these spaths. I have started analyzing a lot of my relationships with friends and everyone now. I am very careful about who I let into my life. This was a good article and it reminded me of a friendship that I had during the time that I dated the spath and the friendship ended the month after we broke up. I would love to know what people here think about this.

The spath and I met at work. This gal from the other ICU across the hall transferred to our ICU and she worked with me and the spath. She immediately wanted to be my buddy and we were both not in the clique there so it was easy to become friends. We used to mock all the childish and obnoxious behavior from our coworkers. We started talking about a lot of stuff together. She was a single mom and divorced and 10 years older than me. She had degrees in biology and psychology. She did brag a lot about her educational status and seemed to think she was “above” others.

Here is the weird thing-she divorced her husband for cheating on her but she knew about my relationship with the married spath and encouraged it. She was there in the beginning when I was confused and guilty about falling for him. She seemed to be really into hearing about the relationship and being my sounding board. She would listen to me when I was upset about him. She always wanted me to give him the benefit of the doubt and encouraged me to stay with him even when he was making me feel so bad for only being with me part-time and staying with his wife. My self esteem was going down and I was getting hurt and she kept encouraging it all. She said that he really loved me because he had changed so much and became this really nice guy after getting with me.

After he discarded me, she was there to listen but seemed to sometimes get aggravated at me cuz I was unable to get over him. She acted like my emotions didn’t mean anything and couldn’t see why I was so upset-despite knowing that he was then getting divorced and planning his life with me and suddenly turned into Mr Hyde and bolted. She was totally unsympathetic. WHen I had to quit my police academy I couldn’t get a nursing job back. NO ONE was hiring last summer in New Orleans. She lived an hour away in Baton Rouge and there were more jobs there. She had left the New Orleans job at that point and was working there. I thought that being up there would be a good change of scenery for me-not too far from home but away from running into the spath and his wife somewhere because I was devastated at the time. I kept asking her to help me get a job there and she refused. She wasn’t happy there and “knew” that I wouldn’t be either-even though I was desperate to get away. We got into an argument about it. I asked if there was a reason that she didn’t want me up there and she flew off the handle and went off on me. I didn’t feel like I did anything wrong. She was only “real” friend in the whole state-or so I thought and it hurt that she was angry and wouldn’t talk to me. I kept apologizing to her and she wouldn’t hear it. I sent a text an email and a later a voice message to apologize and she blew me off and I never heard from her again.

The whole thing seems really really strange to me now. Her motives with trying to buddy up to me give me a bad vibe. I don’t understand why someone in her situation would encourage me in a relationship with the married man-even though she knew that I was feeling so bad about myself. What kind of a friend does that? Not a real one for sure. I feel kinda stupid for being taken in by her and I think that there is really something with wrong with her. Bottomline-if I knew then what I know now. She would never have been in my life.

One of the sociopaths at my current job keeps brown nosing me and trying to buddy up to me as well. I have heard of him running around on his wife but talks all lovey dovey to her on the phone so people can hear him. He friend requested me on facebook and gave me a DVD that he burned containing all sorts of music from his library. I DO NOT have facebook relationships with anyone from work, so I ignored his request and I generally ignore him as much as possible.

I hate these creepy people trying to nose their way into my life. It’s disgusting!

super chic

erin1972, I think you are right, she does not sound like a real friend,
it does sound like there is something wrong with her,
after divorcing her husband for cheating +
still encouraging you to keep seeing a married man =
NOT a friend / weird.
A woman I knew for a couple of years,
I thought we were becoming good friends…
she just cut me off, wouldn’t even return my calls.
I don’t know why!!! At least call me and tell me!!!!!!!


one step

6 ways to cheer yourself up (only if you want to)

show yourself compassion
Accept yourself
Respect yourself
Encourage yourself
Support yourself
Stroke yourself

sit down with a stuffed animal, or doll , or pillow on your lap
(the cat might not “get” this so best not to use him/her for this exersize to avoid facial injury )
get comfortable, close eyes, breathe deeply…slowly in and out to relax yourself. When you feel fully relaxed….. imagine that your small vulnerable self is on your lap and in your arms…. See yourself holding her and speaking softly to her…. Tell her you believe her, and you will always love her….. Rock her gently in your arms and let your love envelop her….. Run your fingers through her hair (i’m so sorry your hands hurt one step) …. stroke her face…really take your time…. only when you feel truly ready, open your eyes and return to the room.

Carolynn Hillman ‘recovery of your Self Esteem- a guide for women’

This really hit the spot for me, as I was desperate for touch, being held and reassured. Turns out I had an ‘inner nurturer’ who knew exactely what to do, as I cannot trust anyone much less let anyone ‘hold me’ yet until we are held in a loving embrace the body is in distress.

I appreciate it may be too touchy feely tree hug style for many, but it really comforted deep down and touched a spot that was pining for some tender loving care, which is the core of any recovery from post traumatic stress. (((((hugs)))))

Talking of spaths and gifts,-Xmas, 2008, I was so excited to have bought my spath daughter a really really special present. Id seen a picture of her on her facebook,[that is, before she “unfriended me”}, of her wearing a borrowed necklace of huge black pearlsworth thousands, that a very wealthy friend of hers had lent herfor the evening.. I saw this gorgeous necklace in a jewellers window, huge black cultured pearls,A$400 reduced to A$250.So, I paid it off,-even got a super swish long red leather box for it. Came Xmas day, she opened it, tried it on, seemed to like it, but quite “underwhelmed” . I still have this pic of me looking at her like a sick puppy, begging fora bone. What did she get for me? Well, she has always given me crap presents. Usually “freebies” .mostly remaindered books,
or books with”not for resale” stamped on them, or really nasty cheap foot lotion kits. That Xmas I got a book about crocodiles, with tiny print, and small black and white old fashioned drawings. David got one the same, on Koalas. hello?
Obviously freebies again. Even the gift wrap looked used, and crumpled.She used to do articles for a magazine about health spas, and she got lots of free spa treatments, i dropped plenty of hints, but, no, never once got one for me.What is it with these people?I usually throw them out, they are such an insult.Love, Mama gem. Nice to be back!!XXX

A real jet ski?
And all for me?
What the F–k!
I wanted a truck!

Its plain to see
If you REALLY loved me!
Just my luck!
I wanted a truck!
BBWWAAAAHHH!! Now Ill give my thumb a suck!
{For EB, you gotta laugh, right?}
Mama Gem.!!


I think that many people, myself included, give freely and generously in this way. However I think it’s definitely true that Ps and Socios exploit this behaviour for their own again. I suspect that the best thing we can do is trust our instincts about someone – does this person feel like one of us? (just very loving by nature) A good rule of thumb is to trust how we feel around the person – if we feel creeped out or feel we are being manipulated then we probably are.

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