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Beware of the “Psychopath Drama Fueler”

Psychopaths are good at draining our finances and leaving us emotionally wrecked. Since I am still going through my custody battle (and likely will for a long time), I constantly think about ways I can make this experience less painful. Dealing with the aftermath of having a child with someone who has a personality disorder is traumatic.

If I have learned one lesson this past year its how important it is to find peace in this sea of chaos. Even after instituting as much “no contact” as is possible my child’s psychopathic parent, I have come to realize that there are people who like to fuel the drama of a psychopath for either entertainment or financial reasons. These people don’t necessarily have a personality disorder themselves, but they have their own personal motivations to keep the psychopath’s drama train on the tracks and headed right toward their victim.In the past year, I have learned many hard (and expensive) lessons. I wish I had known about these “Psychopath drama fuelers” before getting into my custody war with Luc because I would have tried to avoid them (at least to the degree that I could).

Psychopaths keep lawyers, police, judges, social workers, etc employed because custody cases involving psychopaths seem to never end. Even if there isn’t a child in the mix, people with severe personality disorders always end up needing lawyers and coming into contact with police. In addition to financial predators, there are also those people who surround themselves by this drama because they, too, get some sort of sick pleasure out of watching us suffer at the hands of the psychopath.I am sure that for every example I give, many of you who are also recovering from a relationship with a psychopath could come up with several of your own. I never noticed these people before I met Luc, but after I found myself laying on the train tracks of chaos with a psychopath headed right for me – tons of people came out of the woodwork to support Luc to make sure he continued on his path of destruction. These people seem to be everywhere and always willing to help the psychopath by fueling his delusions and lying to support his stories (even folks who are supposed to be neutral). While it is sometimes impossible to control those the psychopath brings to court, you can identify those predators who will surround you in order to exploit your pain for financial gain and/or push your buttons in order to incite further drama. Here are the two categories of Psychopath drama fuelers I have been able to identify:

Those who fuel for entertainment: (Supervised Visitation “Professional”)

At the conclusion of the first custody trial, Luc was ordered supervised visitation for a few months (until an access review hearing). Not knowing better, I suggested that we just go with the woman who had been recommended by the court evaluator. She had been supervising visits for eight years and she was a retired police officer.

Looking back on it, I should have questioned what type of person enters into this sort of “side job” and made sure I got references from families vice just the court. While some people might do it for the extra cash or for some actual altruistic reason, I now suspect that our supervisor took this side job for entertainment value. Over the course of the supervised visitation period, it appeared as though this woman enjoyed chaos and would often attempt to make me feel worse about the situation (while trying to appear sympathetic). At first I didn’t want to accept that she could be playing both sides, but now I understand that its best to limit my interaction with this woman.

The first clue that she couldn’t be trusted was when she would lie about what occurred on the visits (we had a third party watching). The baby would cry the entire time and Luc would sometimes fall asleep on the ground in the play area while he was supposed to be watching the baby. After these visits, the supervisor would say things like, “he did a great job today. I know this is hard for you to take. He is very charming.” Even though the supervisor mentioned her concerns about how he made his money (had hundreds in his wallet each week) and the fact that she believed he was delusional (based on his outlandish stories that were not based in reality), she got on the stand during the trial and told the court she had no concerns about Luc. As she got off the stand, she turned to me and winked. I felt like she had stabbed me.

When Luc was awarded unsupervised visits, the supervisor called me and said she couldn’t believe the court would do such a thing given all the terrible things he had done. I wanted to jump through the phone and punch her, but instead I continued to listen. She went on to tell me that she was concerned that Luc would kill me someday and how she worried he would take off with the baby and never come back. The week of the first visit, she actually had the nerve to ask me if I thought Luc would kill baby boy for a life insurance policy. I finally asked her why in hell she didn’t mention these concerns on the stand. Her response was, “well I don’t have any solid proof.”

So why does she say these things to me and then clam up on the stand? Well, she enjoys seeing me freak out. She feels better about herself to watch someone in such a terrible position. I have stopped sharing information with her and I no longer fall into her drama traps. While the supervisor’s comments may not have been outside the realm of possibility, they served no purpose other than to upset me as she was not willing to say them on the stand.

Those who fuel for financial benefit:

I have gone through three different law firms in the past year. My theory is that lawyers can smell a woman (or man) who is devastated and in desperate need of protection against a psychopath (for herself and most importantly her child). When there is a child involved, they act like vultures swooping down on fresh roadkill. They all want a piece of the meat and they want to take you for all you have. Lawyers also love these cases because they know that you are likely to be a cash cow. Custody wars with psychopaths are like gushing wounds that never stop bleeding. I have learned that with lawyers they will fuel this fight on and on until you can no longer pay – then they will disappear fat and happy (only to resurface again when they think they can get more out of you). Even if its in the child’s best interest to have no contact with the psychopath parent, its my belief that many of these lawyers fight to keep you in a situation where you can be a continuous cash cow. They are not interested in setting precedent and doing what is right – they just want your money.

How to avoid these people (or how to treat them if you are stuck with them):

To a certain extent, I realize that I was bound to come into contact with these people at some point in my custody war with Luc. Knowing that they exist, however, is half the battle. My best advice is to try and identify the motivation behind a person’s actions and pay close attention to these actions in relation to what they are telling you.

With an entertainment seeking Psycho drama fueler, limit your exposure to this person. In my case with the supervisor (she is doing the visitation exchanges now), I treat her just as I would treat the psychopath himself – no contact. Someone else interfaces with her and I limit my communication to only what is necessary. I don’t let Luc send messages through her beyond voicing when he is going to cancel a visit. If I don’t play into her attempts to draw me into conversation, she won’t have the ability to provoke me. Each visit, she is met with another member of my family and it appears as though she is less vocal with her provocations when I am not there.

As far as lawyers are concerned, be your own advocate. These people are only worried about their finances. You are just a client to them. If you discover a way to make litigation less expensive or you want them to push for something in particular – do not take no for an answer. Consider searching for a law firm experienced in fighting for the rights of victims of domestic abuse. Even though Luc never slapped me or punched me in the face, I was still abused and I now realize that I deserved for my case to be presented to the court this way.

You are your child’s best defense against the psychopath. As soon as we identify these Psychopath drama fuelers, it is easier to turn the tables and get them to work for us instead of against us.


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114 Comments on "Beware of the “Psychopath Drama Fueler”"

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Cappuccino Queen – excellent observations. You are absolutely right.

Cappuccino Queen

I second Donna’s comment and would like to add how impressed I am by your ability to not only make such observations, put a fitting name to them and then go on to explain them so eloquently and clearly.

I think that so many times when we are in the “heat of the battle”, so raw with emotion, it is very hard to actually see what is going on.

You are helping a great many people with your articles, thank you.

Hi cappucinoqueen,
You and I must be thinking along the same wavelength. The other day I posted a comment to another blog saying something similar.

It was a blog about the personalities of cult leaders, written by a former FBI agent. I knew of several people (in my earlier life) who became involved in cults, so this is something I’ve been interested in. My suggestion to the author was that profiling the leader was helpful for post-mortem diagnosis & profiling, but in order to help people avoid becoming targets what was needed was a profile of the ‘helpers’. For two reasons:

1) when the cult gets going it’s only the assistants who initially present themselves to potential targets to bring them in &/or they are the ones who ‘smooth’ out any fears in new members if they meet the cult leader.

2) I’m speaking of cults here, mind you, not your ordinary psychopath: a cult leader has NO power on his/her own – zip, zero, nada – unless and until they develop a coterie of followers/assistants/supporters. It’s only at that point that they become truly dangerous.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201208/dangerous-cult-leaders

It’s been my POV for a couple of years now that it’s the psychopath’s ‘assistants’ (meaning the people who coddle, enable &/or encourage the disordered person – and generally live vicariously through them btw) who truly represent the threat. If no-one ever supported an aggressive disordered person they’d be pretty easy to deal with, for the most part. It’s the fact that most of humanity almost automatically side with the more powerful against any perceived target, or at least back away which amounts to the same thing, which allows them to thrive and aggress with impunity.

I think your other issue, which fortunately Dr. Leedom gave you a red flag about, is that almost entirely the general population AND the psychiatric and mental health professions have no clue about the differences between how males and females aggress. Both genders are equally deadly, but they *tend to* aggress in different manners – one directly, the other more obliquely. I’ve started to use the example of female serial killers. They never get talked about in society, so people think they don’t exist, and therefore have no clues to warn them when they may be in danger. Also, any potential witnesses are under the same delusions, so being amongst a group of people doesn’t help either. There are more male serial killers than female, but the discrepancy isn’t nearly as large as you’d think. However, the number of victims is much closer. On average, female serial killers kill in far larger numbers than males, partly because they are neither suspected nor apprehended thus are able to kill for far longer, and partly because female SKs as a rule pick more disadvantaged victims who are either considered to be more of a burden on society and won’t be missed &/or are more vulnerable and not able to communicate, and also partly because they use methods which are more indirect and less attributable to them personally: for instance poison, smothering (in ways that can be confused with natural death), overmedication in ways that appear to be ‘accidents’, and killing by proxy (using someone else to fire the weapon).

For some bizarre reason people think that women can’t be sadists, but from what I’ve been reading (and what my own therapist tells me) abusive women can in fact be more sadistic than most male abusers, because that’s what they can use to make for less physical strength. But their abuses are generally presented as ‘woops – silly me, how could I be so stupid’ ‘accidents’.

What you described from your supervisor – purposefully ratcheting up your fear like that, and then demurely testifying that way on the stand, and then WINKING AT YOU – for heaven’s sake – as she got off the stand sounds exactly what the women sadists I know would do. That could be the limit of what she’s capable of, which is just f***ing with your head. On the other hand, if she’s willing to present this face in public, which is already pretty aggressive, I’d be mindful of the things she’s capable of that you can’t see.

As an example of what I’m speaking about, and what you’ve written about, just look at the case going on in Belgium right now: Michelle Martin was just freed on parole. She ‘looks like’ an assistant, but it was she who let those two 8-year olds starve to death in her basement when her husband was in prison for 4 months. What isn’t mentioned in most of the coverage is that she had been convicted (in the 80’s) of multiple counts of kidnapping. And yet even now she’s still viewed as an ‘assistant’. Also look at the cases of Jaycee Dugard and Elizabeth Smart – the ‘wife’ in both cases could have stopped it, but actively participated. Wanda Barzee’s children broke their silence and went on Oprah to talk about their mother’s severe sadism long before she ever met Brian Mitchell, because they were so concerned that she was being portrayed as a victim.

We don’t ever seem to have a problem labelling Hitler or Mao as dangerous killing psychopaths, even though as far as I can ascertain they never actually killed anyone with their bare hands. But for some reason the not infrequent times when women act in the same way, and get others to commit the crimes they have initiated, we seem to always see them as being ‘assistants’.

My, I went off on a bit of a ramble there! What I’m trying to say is that, when you consider the differnt ways that aggression can present, and the more indirect tactics that more skillful predators often use, sometimes the seeming ‘assistants’ can be the hidden drivers who are too smart to get their hands dirty, and are able/willing to get their thrills vicariously via watching someone else commit the victimization they’ve orchestrated. Other times they are predators-in-training. So my motto has been for some time now, beware the assistants more than anyone else – especially the quiet ones.

C.Queen ~

It took Oxy to point out what the GAL from Hell got out of our situation. It was so simple, so clear. It was one of those – why didn’t I think of that !!!!

It is helpful to run things by others who are not “emotionally connected”.

ps, I’m still impressed

Cappuccinoqueen,

OMGosh! You are SO right. Why do people watch all the spath filled ‘reality’ TV? They love to see a train wreck. Love to see a ‘sucker’ (victim) get devastated. Love to see charm and ego win. I think for some of these folks, beyond financial and entertainment, it is a sense that as long as it is happening to someone else it can NEVER happen to them. They are too smart…..since they’ve watched someone else’s misery.

Of course this is ridiculous.

As a hospice nurse I never think that I will cheat death, just because I have a ringside seat to other people’s passing. But to me this is the kind of mental delusion these drama fuelers are living in. Maybe they are entertained and gain financially. But I think deeper than that they have a twisted sense of being made almost immune, if they are part of the drama, but not the object of the abuse.

Skylar talks about this on her blog, 180rule. It is about people needing ‘scapegoats’ to protect them. As long as heads are rolling down the bloody tilt of sacrifice, and it is not THEIR head, then all is right in the universe. It is downright ‘tribal’ and so unevolved. And it really saddens me. Because there are alot of people who still live in this kind of delusional superstition.

I certainly had people watching my sacrifice, and cheering it on. They envied me when I was ‘his’ girlfriend, because they see him as some kind of little god, they were downright jubilant when I was sacrificed and dumped. It was as if they then had a ‘chance’ (most of them are/were women, and his ‘students’) with him, and they were crazy enough to believe that I deserved to be mistreated, and he would never do the same to them.

Spaths have an awful way of convincing those on the sidelines that if they give the spath what they want, cheer him on, and not call him out, that the cheerleaders will never become the sacrificed.

The only way to stop this is to become fully aware of it. As you are. Not cooperating/interacting with these drama fuelers. Any more than one has to. And not buying into their self-protecting delusions.

Slim

Slimone,
“As long as heads are rolling down the bloody tilt of sacrifice, and it is not THEIR head, then all is right in the universe.”

Wow, beautifully said.

I think that crowd actually is two types: a) the ones who would like to stop it but are too fearful and glad it’s not them, and b) the ones who are too cowardly (or unskilled) but secretly wish they were the ones chopping off heads (the cheerleaders perhaps?).

@cappucinoqueen,
As long as Luc has suggested she continue, sounds like the perfect setup to use a ‘backspath’ technique. Also, even if she is totally evil, as long as you can work out how she might be a potential threat and block those paths, then you’re ahead of the game.

Also, even if she is a full-on predator looking for vicarious thrills, it sounds like she and Luc are being drawn into each others orbit enough that your son isn’t in too much danger. Better to be ignored by a psychopath than elsewise, I say!

It took me a long time to get to this knowledge, but I finally realized about my mother that even if she still is dangerous (which I believe is true) she’s only dangerous in certain situations. Even, for example, the most proficient serial killers don’t kill EVERYONE they meet. If you can keep yourself outside of the preferred target area you can be OK. The more tricky thing – as you pointed out – is keeping out of the clutches of the ‘assistants’.

In your situation, do you think it’s more a case that the supervisor and Luc will just keep each other occupied in *drama* until one or the other gets bored and moves on?

C’queen,

I am so sorry you and your child are going through such a mess, they use those innocent children as pawns to hurt “us” with.

The FENCE SITTERS, the people without any spine who see evil and either are too stuipid to recognize it, or just flat don’t give a flip, they are necessary for the psychopaths to thrive.

I’ve been reading a lot since my surgery and have currently read some books about Soviet history in WWI and WWII and German history in WWI and WWII and how the psychopaths came to rule and destroy because people who did see the evil, did nothing.

Even some of the people who ended up losing their own lives lived in denial until it was too late.

I think in particular of one story where a man “saw” Hitler and what was going to happen and he decided to take his family, leave all their possessions behind and walk out of Germany which he did and went to Canada.

He plead with his friends to go with him, that it was not safe to stay, but they said to him, “but WHAT would we do with our furniture?” His daughter said that they left at night and walked and she saw her mother give her wedding ring to a man for a boat ride across a river, but they survived and all their friends died, killed by Hitler and the few with him, but mostly by their own failure to see what is going on. The majority of Germans weren’t killers, but the ones who were not, did not stop those who were. They sat on the fence and did nothing. That allowed the evil to thrive.

Sometimes it is like my egg donor literally financing the psychopath, giving them strength and the resources necessary to persist with their evil intentions. Knowing the psychopath is evil, yet denying it.

I’ve done lots of denial myself in the past, but I finally came to the realization that I had to FACE REALITY OR DIE. I chose to face reality. I still do.

.
Thank you !!! Thank you !!! Thank you !!!
.
Thank you — for EXPOSING THE TRUTH about
these people (the ‘Drama Fuelers”) who “get
a (sick) kick” out of watching innocent others
go through repeated battles with a psychopath !!!
.
Their behavior reminds me of the people
who the Germans refer to as engaging in
‘Schadenfreude’ (which means “deriving
pleasure from someone else’s misfortune”)
— and I personally believe their behavior
is simply a more subtle form of psychopathy.
.
In my opinion — they are simply the psychopath’s
‘silent partners’ (ex. when asked to tell what they
know, suspect or witnessed, they become ‘mute’)
… or sometimes, ‘not so silent partners’ (ex. they
love to vocalize their “concerns” to the target of
the psychopath — without doing anything to help
the target — simply to ‘observe’ their reaction).
.
And I think they are no ‘better’ (or even ‘different’) than
the person who is the ‘obvious’ psychopath — in fact, in
some ways they are worse due to the simple fact that at
least with an ‘obvious’ psychopath the target ‘knows’ they
are in danger — but the ‘silent’ psychopaths are so ‘subtle’
they can ‘do their damage’ (via the ‘obvious’ psychopath)
and have their role in someone else’s misery go completely
unnoticed by most people (including, on occasion, the target).
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude
.
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2010/03/enablers-are-secondary-abusers.html
.
http://www.wearesurvivors.org/?p=1736
.
http://www.luke173ministries.org/466787
.
http://www.luke173ministries.org/466788
.
http://www.luke173ministries.org/templates/System/details.asp?id=39548&PID=466780
.

Oxy!
How are you? How was the surgery, and how is your leg? I read your post about your roof – really sorry about all the pain and difficulty you’ve been going through lately.

Hope you’re hanging in there OK.

BTW, the story you wrote about is almost exactly my in-laws situation. They escaped Communist China, but before the Cultural Revolution. At that time my FIL was in line to inherit what was left of a massive estate – at that point they thought they were still being told they’d keep a percentage of their property and their personal goods. My FIL just ‘knew’ that he should get out – everyone thought he was completely crazy, including his brand new wife who had to leave her wedding ring behind to get out. Turns out both sets of parents were tortured and passed away shortly afterward. My FIL had to keep silent about it, specifically because he was so ridiculed by people in his own family for contemplating it. But the other thing that people don’t realize is that a ‘culture’ had been created where everyone was encouraged to ‘snitch’ on one another; no-one knew who to trust. It eventually got to the point where children were strong-armed to snitch on their parents, the ones who did got plum jobs, the ones who didn’t sometimes suffered the same fate as their parents. Mao, Stalin and Hitler actually traded and copied techniques from one another.

Cappucinoqueen,
Just thinking about your post re: how so many of the support people are frightened of Luc. I’m starting to think that a good many decent people are just overwhelmed and don’t have the skills to know how to handle truly dangerous or threatening individuals. The image that comes to mind was how so many mobsters were actually convicted not on their mob activities, but on tax evasion, fraud, etc…

It’s just too too much for most people to handle when they come face to face with evil – particularly if they’ve spent most of their lives thinking that anyone who talked about it had to be slightly crazy or hystrionic. I’m starting to think that we need to find a way to make it easier for those people to do the right thing, but perhaps not head on as we’d prefer.

Is there a way that those people could start to build ‘smaller’ cases against Luc, that would be easier for them to get behind? Those can sometimes add up enough to tip the scales as much as someone putting themselves fully on the line – as your custody evaluator did.

Annie,

I am doing as well (or better) than I could have hoped medically. The surgery turned out to be more complex and I had to get a donor tendon as mine was totally worthless and broken.

Just a non-commercial plug here for folks who have not thought about donating their eyes, kidneys, and other body parts after their death, PLEASE CONSIDER IT….without the wonderful donation of a tendon from some deceased person who wanted to help others even after their death, I would have been crippled in that leg forever. Now I will walk again and probably run!

I am chaffing at the bit to be more mobile, being “down” is frustrating for me as I “feel” good but don’t need to be up much until this thing has some time to heal. I ahve been fortunate to have wonderful friends and a wonderful son to care for me body and soul! And I have lots of books and DVDs to keep me entertained. And lots of good comments and articles to read here on LF and can be back at my computer for a little time before Ihave to go back to a chair or bed.

Annie, I am so glad your family got out when they did. You know, I have read a lot about the history of China and Mao and the horror of 60 million people (that is 10 times what Hitler killed) who were tortured, starved and killed in China. I have read two books by Mao supporters (at first) one an American and one a Chinese, who were tortured for years in prison by Mao who knew them personally to “prove” to himself that they were loyal no matter what. Fortunately these two men eventually got out of DENIAL (one after 10 years in prison was still loyal) and escaped to write their stories.

I have also read stories about Russia and Germany and the millions that Stalin killed. Just finished one by an English diplomat in Russia before WWI and he stayed and was in prisoned by Lenin and then finally released and escaped. He told it from the “inside” as he knew what was going on and the Russian people sat by impassive.

So many psychopaths, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler rise to the top, and there are many more in power NOW all over the world and people suffering terribly. My heart goes out to these people who have no power, and no resources…especially women in N. Africa and the middle East where in some cases even the “culture” is psychopathic.

Most of us have had to deal with only one or two real psychopaths but not without some power to escape. We need to be like your ancestor and listen to our guts!

In the wild it is the animal who is CAUTIOUS and does NOT IGNORE the signs that something is “off” or that there is danger that survives. We must listen to our guts about other people, because essentially other people are the only predators on humans. We have done away with lions and tigers as predators and only left those that appear human to prey on the rest of us.

Hi Annie and Slim, good to see you both.
Yes, the minions are the problem. Spaths don’t like to get their own hands dirty. Pontious Pilate is a perfect analogy for a spath because he “washed his hands” even though the decision was entirely his. All spaths try to slime someone else with the responsibility.

Yet, that doesn’t make the minions actually innocent. I think the real difference between a spath and a minion is just the size of their balls. Spaths are so narcissistic that they believe they can get away with anything. They’re audacious. While the minions are just stupid and go along with anything the spath suggests.

So for example, the cop/court supervisor obviously isn’t getting sufficient drama in her life so she creates it in other people’s lives. She became a cop for the power and authority but now she’s got to make due with power over parents and children. Luc, being a spath, has this already figured out and just works her. Spaths can sense another drama addict, because they are drama addicts themselves. Eventually he will take her down the slippery slope and slime her with some crime he commits. I just hope there is video evidence of it when it happens.

wrong thread

Skylar, Shakespear’s, Lady Macbeth, “Out damned spot’. Trying to wash the blood off her hands.

C-queen, I agree with you, sometimes they rope others into illegal activities as well and then even if the other person repents of their acts and “goes straight” they are afraid to expose the P because to do so would cause them either legal or other problems.

I’m surprised you got the ex GF to testify in your custody case.

I KNOW this has happened in my situation.

She can get her boy friend and father of her 3 year old child to ask “how high” when she says jump because she has the ability to send him back to prison on drug charges.

That is the ONLY reason he is forced to stay with her and go along with everything she dishes out.

C-queen, I just went back and reread a previous post of yours about the “IN-justice” (as I call it) system.

Yes, a “first offender” is let off with a slap on the wrist or a juvy is let off with a slap for a serious crime.

Stats show that each “first offender” CHILD MOLESTER has had 300 child sexual contacts before they become a “first offender.”

DUH???? WTF????

I realize that there are not enough jails, our local one just added 80 beds which will be immediately filled with violent offenders and less than physically violent ones will be released to make “room” for others, so I realize the cops have to pick and choose which is “criminal enough” to lock someone up.

It just seems to me though that our society as a whole, which IS locking up more offenders than any other country–but crime IS DOWN FOR THE LAST DECADE, believe that or not! Right now there are 2 MILLION men and women in our prisons, and 5 MILLION on parole or probation (which IS a joke!) of thhose in prisons or those who are former convicts 25% of them are certifiable psychopaths. The other 75% have an AVERAGE PCL-R score of 22, and it only takes 30 to be a full fledged psychopath.

My son was diagnosed as “anti-social personality disorder” which is essentially what they call a psychopath now since there is no medical term “psychopath” recognized diagnostically…and he committed a cold blooded pre-meditated murder, and then sent a man to kill me (but fortunately that man failed) and my son is coming back up for parole again. I have to hire an attorney to FIGHT his parole release because I KNOW he will do his best to kill me or have me killed if he is inside or out, but I figure I have a better chance of being safe if he is INSIDE PRISON.

Every parole year my sainted egg donor hires him an attorney to try to show what a wonderful Christian he has become and how he has FOUND JEZZZZZUS! and how he deserves another chance even though he took away the chances of Jessica Witt when he blew out the brains of the 17 year old girl because she “ratted him out” on a credit card scam they were involved in and he was mad because he would go back to prison.

My egg donor has been a drama fueler and a protector of my son since he was 15—protecting him from me when I on those rare occasions rose up and tried to confront his criminal behavior. But I too engaged in protecting him from consequences of his behavior in the VAIN HOPE he would reform. NO MORE!

Cappaccinoqueen,

This topic is very good and your observations are spot on. I am suspicious of many in the family court system of being these types. What I found most disturbing was the number of women getting off on harming other women in this sick process. Many are judges and senators in my state. They do know what they are doing and they do it with intent. On one hand they are minions or enablers of psychopaths/sociopaths but on the other are they themselves psychopaths and/or sociopaths? One thing is for sure, in this arena there is a financial incentive to play along.

My first experience with a court rostered psychologist, was an experience similar to yours. This woman would attempt to bait me so she could write biased reports in favor of the psychopath. It probably drove her mad, that several of her traps went right over my head as I was so entrenched in disbelief of the whole process, I wouldn’t react as she expected. Later I would realize what she was doing. Everything happened later in my case as in many. We are unsuspecting victims who know our exes at this point are to be feared but who would think the whole system would enable a person like this to prevail at the expense of a child? This woman was a little old grandma looking lady with a phony tiny little voice which gave the impression of a mild person but she was a shrew! When I finally said to her face something was wrong with her in my exasperation, I saw in her eyes she knew it. That was a really confusing and then scary moment.

This is an education I wish the whole world could be spared of learning but the “helpers” and “fence riders” are the exact reason these monsters have made it into powerful positions and we are in this condition.

I believe all abuse is about a level of power and control. The points being made about the leaders of cults having no power without their followers all fits in. This is why I am so concerned about the over zealous use of religion.

My exes family hid what they well knew him to be from me in hopes he would change because they’d been praying for this change. Well, the change still hasn’t occurred but he went to prison and practiced his fake jesus loving game and so again they enabled him to go after us because they prayed and now he’s changed. UGH! I don’t know want to know what it will take for them to accept he is what he is.

I am wondering though Cappaccino, is there any possibility he’s working as a snitch? I have read a bit about this and if he gives them just enough to keep himself out of prison and arrest others, they’ll let him run around wreaking havoc on for quite a while. Mine was moved from one prison to another mid sentence?? So I did some digging and found he was beaten right before the move and it had something to do with his mouth to the degree they had to move him for his own safety. (unfortunately) Snitches get perks from the law if they actually have helped them bust people.

It was my experience with the spath attack and court, the evaluator kept us under his control weekly at the least and spath would see me every week. When I finally got me out of the equation, after a time and some attempts on his part to force interaction that failed thanks to others helping me, he began to lose interest in the game. As bizarre as it is, that really seemed to be key. The new court interventionist was picked by me and referred to me as a woman who cared about children and had specialized in child trauma and she was the one who kept me out of his sight. I got the referral from someone outside of the courts system in this field. That would be a suggestion for the future. Go outside of the court arena for any input and referrals you can get of people inside the court arena. Even the childrens advocates and non-profits proved to be in it for the money and social status…………Actually the only childrens advocate non-profit here, has done many of the behaviors you name in your post and is definitely and drama fueler taking advantage of women and children at their most vulnerable time. The director spoke down to me and other mothers I saw come for help. She was very belittling and terrifying in her own right. Cruel. I was told by my outside source to get away from her at my earliest chance and she’s another who chose this field but has no children… hhhmmmm….. Probably a good thing.

Great subject.

CQueen, $74,000.00 later and 5 lawyers later we still are paying for a the last of 2 children that refuse to see their father. My husband has always been a very active father before his divorce, and then all hell broke lose. His ex , Laura is a sociopath with BPD and narcistic behavior. She lives free off society and drains us of all that she can, regularly. We pay for children that can be truly defined as the worst case of parental alienation ever seen! There are 21 and 16 and don’t speak to their father unless they want something. We live very modestly and cannot ever even take a vacation because we have to save for the “legal arsenal”The 21 yr old just got emancipated , and the 16 yr old has years to go. No matter what their father does or tries to do for them it always gets turned around in their “mothers” favor and cost us $. She gets free help and $ because she uses people and is a professional liar and “victim”! It never ends as long as there is a financial tie to the sociopath, then they will move on to some other poor sole. Good Luck Beth V

Omg innocent people get so played into defending a sociopath.

I was raised by a psychopath and there was always drama. If you didn’t go along with her thinking and how she views this world you became a target and she knew well how to manipulate others into believing you to be a wack-job after her.

It’s so sick. This is the very reason I chose at times not to communicate with anyone. I think it has to do with this type of childhood traumas.

Hi everyone! I have been pretty down lately. Some of you are familiar with my story, thanks for all your help in the past!

Very briefly, my niece (brother’s daughter)is being abused by her mother (sister in law)on a daily basis. I was seriously thinking about going “no contact” but was not able to abandon my niece.

My niece is who is 6 years old is in second/third grade high ability program. She is now being coached by SIL to perform poorly on tests on purpose! SIL yelled at my niece this past Tue, Wed, and Thu for 2 + hrs each day, accompanied by a few blows. There was no bruising or visible wounds. My mother witnessed this whole thing for 3 days but was “afraid to interfere” because SIL will yell at her and felt it would be of no use. Visited my niece yesterday (Saturday), she was pretty down, my brother told me they have a retard for a child. He feels she is deserving of this cruelty!!! SIL is like a cult leader, plays mind games, fools and manipulates minds. She is beating up her kid for poor grades, when SHE HAS coached her to DO EXACTLY THAT! For everybody else it looks as though she is upset at her kid for getting poor grades on a couple of classes, even that does not deserve such treatment of a 6 year old!!! The problem is my niece is very intelligent, the kids in her class are nice to her, she likes her current teacher, so SIL wants to take her out of this class, this is one way she can do that and break her confidence and her psyche down. She wants my niece to be unhappy and obedient at all times!

I gave my niece a lot of compliments yesterday and told her that I am there for her but I only get to see her 2 or 3 times a month about 2 to 3 hrs each visit. I don’t know what to do! The abuse is escalating, SIL is punishing the kid because is very smart, sweet, loving, compassionate, this sends SIL into a violent rage. I had no idea any mother will want to break down/destroy their own daughter!!! What should I do, what can I do? SIL is making this family situation into a cult, she is the cult leader, the people that live there (my brother and my mom) do not dare question her! I am worried about my niece, I am afraid something worse may happen, I want to do more, but am helpless and powerless. I am afraid SIL will make my niece LIE to accuse me of some wrong doing, if I am any more of a threat to her. Any advice and support is appreciated. I remain very distressed and concerned…… caringaunt

Caringaunt, I am so horribly sorry to read of these abuses and your angst for your neice’s well-being.

I am going to ask you a very pointed and direct question and it is absolutely not intended to come off harsh or mean. Here goes: what do you believe you have the power to do?

There is a sad, cold, hard fact, here, and it is ugly and unpleasant. Aside from reporting the abuse to your local agency, there is absolutely nothing that you can do.

Accepting that any mother can (and, DOES) destroy their own child is the first step. Your brother is fully involved, as well, even if he’s being coerced into supporting his wife’s abusive behaviors. Your mother is enabling the abuse and excusing it on her not wanting to be “yelled at” by the abusive mother of her own grandchild. These are 100% toxic people and there is not one thing that you – Caringaunt – can do to alter these dynamics. Even contacting child protective services isn’t going to stop the abuses.

Perhaps, other readers will have better responses. I’m only typing on what I know to be true, and the truth isn’t always acceptable or comfortable.

My most brightest and comforting blessings to you…

Caring Aunt,

I am familiar with your story and I know it breaks your heart thhat not only you can see it, but can do NOTHING about it but what you are doing.

I do know one thing, that the influence of even ONE VOICE telling that child that she is smart and that she is LOVED will be an important part of her inner self for the rest of her life. So I think it is important for you to continue to be there as much as possible for the child.

I am not sure what CPS will do in such a case as this one, the child is not being locked in a dog cage and fed table scraps and even if she were, I’m not sure they would do a lot about it except make the mother open the cage at least once a day.

The kind of abuse your SIL does is much more subtle (and I think in a way worse) so I suggest that you hang in there and giver positive strokes to the child, let her know that there is one person who loves her, thinks she is smart and good,, and then just bide your time…the kid will grow and it won’t be long before “mommie dearest” wont’ have 100% control over her. Or who she sees.

Maybe you can volunteer at nieces’s school if that wouldn’t set mommy off…maybe make it like you are doing it in order to be mommy’s eyes and ears there. (Her spy) when in fact you are there to be there for the child. A grandmother friend of mine who was forbidden to see her granddaughter (that she had been the sole caregiver of til age 8 when her son remarried) and now the girl is age 17 1/2 and doing well….has realized daddy and step mom are abusive, sees her grandmother, has grown into a wonderful strong young woman who puts up with what she has to at “home” but has a job, makes her own money, has a car (parents won’t let her drive it though she has the money for insurance) but the day she turns 18 she is OUTTA THERE….no more abusive step mom, no more abusive dad, no more abusive real mom. This is a kid with TWO psychopathic parents and a P step mother, but a loving grandmother who stuck in there when she couldn’t see the kid for YEARS….volunteered at the girl’s school so sxhe could wave at the child across the cafeteria….but even a LITTLE POSITIVE SHOW OF LOVE MEANS A LOT TO A KID WHO DOESN’T HAVE ANYTHING EXCEPT FEAR AND CRITICISM. ps KEEP PRAYING!

Thanks Truthspeak and Oxy for your feedback.

Truthspeak: You are not being harsh at all, I actually appreciate the honesty. Yes, not easy to think of a mother being a monster, but I suppose it is possible. The enablers are toxic as well, I need to accept that. It is not easy because these people are my own mother & my brother, I never quite thought of them that way.

Oxy: Yes, I will stay the course as long as I can. I needed to hear that I can make a difference in my niece’s life, however small. You have told me about your friend’s situation before and it is very encouraging. I am not able to volunteer in my niece’s school not just because of my work schedule, my SIL will not welcome that. She hates the fact that I still visit my niece and maintain some contact.

omg.sooo sad. caringaunt… children are a blessing not to be messed with.. she needs u.. right is right and wrong is wrong and this is sad..call police..call protective services.call news if nothings done about it..lack of concern on a childs welfare.. they will love the story… be anonymous of course… get her somehow to a child psycologist…if u could with your visits. talk to a lawyer on rights on protecting family… a child psy. will know what to do they see this horrible behavior everyday.. call one if u have to ask what u can do who to talk to.. call a court child judge..call.call.call. untill u get that child the heck out of that house. 6 just a baby..

how about explaing it to school whats going on…. tell them your story..tell the princ..school counselor…??? make calls..

Hi imlivingithelp, Thanks for your feedback and your compassion for my niece. This situation is not so easy, if I were to call the police or talk to the school principal, I need guaranteed results. If things do not go right I will lose my privileges to visit my niece… Even with anonymous reporting, SIL will know it is me. She could easily have her kid lie for her and make everyone doubt my credibility! She has turned my brother against his own kid, (he used to love her so much), then SIL is capable of anything. As Oxy has pointed out with the dog cage example… Although I feel helpless, talking this out with everyone here does really help! I thank you all!!!

Cappaccinoqueen,

It’s INSANE. They controlled my life and actually took our lives away for 3 and a half years at spaths demand.

The drama fueler is typical government/family court puke! They don’t care about your life. They don’t look at anything through your eyes. It’s a court order and she’s a F”ng robot getting PAID but she believes you are under her
CONTROL and she doesn’t owe you a service for your money. You are COURT ORDERED.

I never felt so helpless for a marathon mental beating in my life. They are all friggin sick. Let her let Luc know. Our drama fueler just wrote letters to the judge about me and cost me tens of thousands of dollars. Keep documentation of what was happening and why. That’s all you can do. My drama fueler wrote 8 or 9 letters full of lies and explanable truths. I never got to speak and that’s when I got sanctioned.

If you ever see an opening to get rid of her, start getting your feelers out for people who know which court appointees are kind, so you can have an option if needed.

It was my saving grace and my childs getting rid of that drama fueler. Here, I found the REAL court appointees that were good, drove average conservative vehicles and the ones to watch out for were driving flashy cars. Even that 78 year old hag, drama fueler who wanted to ride off with bio hazard on his harley into the sunset.

Just an observation in my area….$$$$$$$

Yes, the comment sounded threatening. While it might be her responsibility to inform Luc that the visitation would be cancelled and that you were not available on _____ day for a make-up visit, her tellling him “you are in violation of the court order” IS NOT her responsibility and totally out of line. IMO, she has absolutely no authority to act as a Judge/Magistrate and make such a determination.

I believe you mentioned that you have health insurance so may I suggest that you take the baby to the pediatrician EVERYTIME there is indication of a fever and get a medical record established for the reason of the cancellation. I think you could explain the situation to a caring pediatrician and although normally an appointment may not be totally necessary, it may be invaluable to you down the road.

CappQ,

Our drama fueler was in our case for a year and a half. It was abusive. My daughter had never had an adult treat her this way. The woman literally almost cost me custody! We got a new judge and he wasn’t familiar with the case and of course it’s a chess game which I had never played before. They stacked the case against me and I took a mental/legal beat down in the stairwell of the courthouse when I had everything to go to trial except a lawyer with BALLS. I have to say, I believe when we finally did go before the judge, he knew he made a mistake. I had the courtroom filled on my side. Nobody was there for psycho. I couldn’t hide that I was ANGRY and I looked like a POW who gave it her best shot to look good. The judge even said “I’ll remember this case. It has been very litigious so why don’t you attorneys just call me if you need something” HUH? Then he found in my favor on EVERYTHING else but it wasn’t the important stuff! Next time a paper came across his desk where psycho made a request, he just filed it and IGNORED HIM!! I want to send the judge a X-mas card but I can’t…Even had me pay less than I offered for the weekly child court ordered child abuse. Judges never liked psycho when he got in front of them. He cleans up real well but looking at the file, he sounds like he would have horns and crap and I seem like I would look like a hooker in a straight jacket. So imagine the judges surprise (my name throws people off too lol)

Your drama fuelers loyalty is with that court. The plastic surgery is whole other “HOLY CRAP” observation of RUN.

It’s all about money to those creeps.

Since she isn’t writing letters against you but “attempting” to push your buttons, try to roll with it. If she sends a letter to the judge about it, here you have a few days to object and get a hearing. (I know it’s not that easy)

Milo,

It’s not right but mine said whatever she felt. I was illegally forced into what was equivalent to couples counseling which is illegal when there’s been domestic violence in the case. Psycho was PROUD I was ORDERED to meet with him after years of NO CONTACT! When I walked out, they both yelled I was in contempt of court! I said, “tell it to the judge! I want to see him!” So that was another letter to him. I got in her face before I left and said “YOU ARE SICK!” and I saw her eyes flash! SHE KNEW. She didn’t write that in her letter, did she? NOPE.

CappuccinoQueen, you could walk on water while juggling flaming hoops and whistling “Dixie,” and this would continue – the drama-thon.

Because you are so embroiled in this situation, it’s very difficult to generate objectivity where “actions and reactions” are concerned. What this woman is doing is abusing her “power.” And, I don’t know whether or not text messaging back and forth is a healthy option – the only advantage I could see would be “documentation” of what transpires. If there could be a specific day & time that you “communicate” with this person, perhaps you can lay down a boundary. For instance, Luc’s scheduled visitation day is Thursday. No need for communicating with this woman unless there is an emergency, so Wednesday evening, between 5-6pm will be the time when any communications occur. Otherwise, she is not to communicate with you unless there is a bona fide emergency outside of the visitation day (baby boy becomes ill, or something).

What is happening here, CQueen, is that there is a barrage of crazymaking going on. Your life is disrupted, on every level, to attend hearings, appointments, assessments, etc., and a stressful visitation exchange is just the icing on the cake of madness.

Yes, you are required, by Court Order, to comply with the schedule. But, are you required by Court Order to constantly have to communicate with this woman? If not, keep it to a bare minimum and as business-like as possible. Try your level best to keep all of your “feelings” and emotions to yourself, whenever possible. If Luc takes baby boy to the ER, again, remain business-like and avoid any drama by refusing to react.

And, yes, she was threatening you with tattling. Go ahead! TELL the Court that I’m keeping my son home because he’s running a fever. Make Luc’s attorney file a “show-cause” motion and you’ll have evidence of precisely why he cannot be considered “responsible” in caring for baby boy, properly.

She is engaging in a “he said, she said” game of power, that’s all. If there is any way to shut that control down, use it. If you have to force yourself to act matter-of-fact, do it. Give her nothing of yourself, especially your concerns. She doesn’t CARE about your concerns, CQueen, and she doesn’t care about baby boy’s well-being, either. She cares about remaining on this case as a paid party of the Court. If she can keep the drama-thon at a fever-pitch, she can stay on this case and continue getting paid and gratifying whatever power-lust she has.

If you have female friends that are willing, take them along with you, as well. Have as many witnesses as you can to this exchange and abuse of power. In fact, start taking a video recorder, if you can, or have someone in the vehicle overtly recording the exchange by video.

I wish that nobody had to endure this stupidity, but they do. And, the Courts have the ability to bring this type of bullshit to a screeching halt.

Brightest blessings

I understand, oh so well. Just wanted to make sure you were covering you back side with the Dr.’s documentation.

You ARE NOT a terrible mother. You are between a rock and a hard place. You are left with little or no choice and that is just WRONG.

CappQ

Truthspeak is very correct. It’s abuse. IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT!

I would walk down the hallway to pick up my daughter and I would hear this shrill sound that I thought was someone laughing but it was her, crying and screaming for her “MAMA”! I would get to the office and she’s standing in the window LOCKED IN clutching her stuffed animal (so something that loved her was there) and crying (not a cryer). I felt like ………………. IT”S NOT MY FAULT! I hate those people! (if you can call them that)

He told her I wanted to abort her but he SAVED HER fom ME!! That woman allowed it! PTSD

A childrens advocate office told me to pick my daughter up from school and shove a thermometer in her mouth and tell her she has a fever and cancel the next appt. I did.

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