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“Beware the tyranny of the weak”

By Joyce Alexander, RNP (Retired)

I’m a sucker for “one line philosophies,” and sometimes I hear a new one that makes me perk up my ears and start to ponder on the phrase. Thus the quotes around today’s title.

The person who told me this, and said that she had heard it from her mother, I later came to believe is a psychopath. At the very least, she was incredibly demanding toward me, but all in the name of being “helpless” and therefore entitled to my help or entitled to doing it her way, entitled to inconvenience everyone else for her immediate gratification.

Of course she never shouted at me to get her way, but was very soft spoken and politely demanded that her will be given in to by all in the house. It was all very “passive-aggressive” and “please and thank you,” but demanding none-the-less. We must remember that “passive” aggressive is still aggressive.

Pity ploy

One of the things I have noticed in my several acquaintances with various levels of psychopaths, from the common garden-variety “red-neck thugs” to the “snakes in suits,” is that they are all very good at presenting themselves as “victims” of someone else, or victims of circumstances, and therefore they are entitled to special privileges or consideration because of X, Y or Z. If you aren’t willing to take “pity” on them and give them their way, then you are the bad guy kicking the poor victims when they are down and unable to defend themselves.

My maternal DNA donor is quite adept at the “pity ploy,” and at the tactic of projecting her own bad thinking onto others in “mind reading” sessions such as, “Well, I had to lie to you because if I’d told you the truth you would have been mad and thrown a fit.” Actually I would have been disappointed in her gullibility in giving the psychopaths money, but not angry. It was, after all, her money that she earned, and she was entitled to give it to a home for stray cats if she had wanted to. Her “mind reading” wasn’t nearly as accurate as she would have me think, and the ploy is doubly nasty because how could I defend myself from her “mind reading”? If I said, “No that’s not true, she would only counter with “WELL, YOU ARE LYING, YOU WOULD TOO!” In retrospect, it is actually funny, but at the time, as part of the “summer of chaos,” as I have come to call this particular summer, it was a heartbreaking accusation that there was no way I could defend myself from. I cried for days because there was no defense, no way I could convince her I was not being “mean.”

Of course my egg donor is quite elderly and no longer physically robust or independent, and requires someone to drive for her, shop for her, etc., so now that I have gone no contact with her, and I’m her only child, she uses the “pity ploy” to complain, sweetly of course, that her “mentally ill daughter” is neglecting her. At least she is making an excuse now for why she told everyone that I “tried to gain control over her money,” when I have never taken a dollar from her, not even for the eighteen months I lived in her house and took care of her and my beloved stepfather 24 hours a day, five to seven days a week.

Pretend it never happened

When my daughter-in-law and the ex-cell mate of my son Patrick, that he had sent to kill me, were arrested for trying to kill my son C, my predictions to my egg donor that these people were evil were proven true in spades. So now, having no one to dance to her demands in exchange for “loans” and “gifts,” she came back to me with the suggestion (read: demand) that we “just forget about all this unpleasantness and pretend none of it happened and start over.”

The pretense that “none of this happened” is the most demeaning of all the demands that the “passive aggressive” psychopaths try to heap on our heads. They are pretending to be “weak” and “pitiful” and “powerless” in order to elicit our empathic hearts to give in to them, no matter how demeaning, or demanding, or hateful they are to us. They expect that we instantly forget the pain, the demanding and punishing behavior that they in their entitlement heap upon our heads continually, in the name of “keeping the peace” with them. They use the excuses of “it’s your mother after all,” or “we have been married for 20 years, we can’t let all this unpleasantness break up our family.” Blaming the real victim for not silently enduring the abuse is a perfect “pity ploy” for the real abuser.

I learned early in life that it was “important” to “keep the peace” in the family and “pretend none of this ever happened” in order that the neighbors didn’t know how dysfunctional our family really was. I learned to “forgive” (pretend it didn’t happen) if a family member did something that was horrible, or otherwise I was told I would personally be thrown into hell fire and burn forever because I didn’t “forgive” the bad behavior, in other words, “pretend none of this happened.”

Of course while the “weak” expect us to “forget and forgive” everything immediately, they are allowed to hold grudges forever, and believe me they do! If you remind them of something they did to you yesterday, according to them that is “bringing up the past,” and they will counter with something you did when you were 10 years old that shows you are still, 50 years later, not to be trusted, even though that behavior has not been repeated since you were 10!

“Beware the tyranny of the weak” is an excellent piece of advice, and I am no contact with the person who gave me that phrase, because it fits them to a ‘tee.’ The strong admit their own failings, and make an effort to be kind and compassionate to others, but they do not give in to the pity ploy or let the “weak” exercise tyranny over them.


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Hi Oxy!

Well written, as usual. You have really made some good points here. And, as usual, I feel like you are talking about the spaths I used to know.

It’s good to point out the way we are raised as a primer for spaths, because as I read this, I remembered instances in detail regarding how my father used this “that was 5 minutes ago” method to condition me to accept abuse. I became overly tolerant and instead thought I was just “committed” and “a trooper” later in life, when really I was a “doormat.”

I remember the week my little sister died in my arms. Three days later, I was in the kitchen, crying as I attempted to wash the dishes. My dad walked into the kitchen and demanded to know, “What is the problem?!?!?!” He said it as though he was actually angry that I was emotional. I was so shocked that I hardly answered at first. I thought, “Is he JOKING? Is this a trick question?” But finally I uttered, “My sister died 3 days ago….” Without missing a beat, he snapped, “That’s in the past! Stop dwelling in the past. You need to GET OVER IT!” I shuffled up stairs to my room to avoid making him more angry with the tears that I really could NOT stop from falling. He came up, knocked on my door, and handed me a JUG of wine. As I took it, he said, “This is how you deal with problems. Drink this.” I was so pissed that I downed the entire jug without stopping for air, handed him the empty container, and then finally he left me alone (I was 15 at the time).

Of course if 3 days after the death of my sister is DWELLING in the past, then you can imagine how he felt about anything less serious that death itself! The time he allowed to “forget and move on” from anything he did was about 5 minutes. In fact, you might as well just forget he was doing something while it was happening, because what the spath or P really means to say is that nothing they do should have any consequences whatsoever, and I really believe they want you to live in a fantasy world where you pretend that everything bad that they do is actually your delusional mind playing tricks on you. They condition you to be blind to reality staring you right in the face. Five minutes is too soon to see what they are. RIGHT NOW is too soon to see what they are. BLIND is what you must be, period.

I am sorry to hear what is going on with your mother, Oxy. I am sure I’ll be hearing something like this in a few years when my father’s health gets bad. Last I heard from him, he informed me that his wife (#6) was starting to think I was a neglectful daughter for not speaking to him and that her high opinion of me was being lowered by my behavior. I wonder what she’ll have to say when he leaves her for his secretary (like he did to all his exes….yes, this one used to be his secretary too).

I am sure you are mentally sick Oxy, meaning mentally SICK OF HER SHIT. There is a difference 😉

Oh, forgot some classic spath one-liners I heard from them:

My father: No wussies allowed! -and- Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken! (he took that from Fight Club)

My ex: Perception’s a twisted thing.

Oxy,
You bring up a very important insight into the way the disordered think.

In the case of your egg donor, she is quite ready to “pretend it never happened.” when talking about your DIL and the trojan spath and Patrick. When talking about the one time YOU lied to her at age 15, she can’t forgive or forget. Even though the former is much more atrocious behavior, she doesn’t care, she only cares about a lie that YOU told 50 years ago.

I noticed this same thing in my spath-brother. When he was a young man, one of his friends stabbed him in a fight, he almost died because it came within an inch of his heart. They were drinking buddies again within a month. My sister and her husband tried to have him put in jail and he was standoffish toward them for years after that. But when I informed him that they were evil and sociopaths, (something he couldn’t perceive before) he suddenly wanted to be good friends with them and began to talk with them daily. He doesn’t get (or care) that they want him dead. I am his REAL enemy, the one person who cared enough to save him from jail.

It doesn’t make sense. Unless you look at it from the perspective of emotional meaning. The events and behaviors are completely meaningless to the spath. Murder and betrayal have no meaning. The only thing that has meaning is the emotional response from the victim. When a spath attacks another spath, neither one has much emotional response to it, so it’s quickly forgotten. When a spath attacks a REAL person, they get an emotional response. This is a “fix” for the spaths. This is something that they can’t forget and want more of. I could see my brother almost salivating when I told him what my spath had done. It was at that point that he decided to join in the fun.

That’s why gray rock works and why it’s so important. No emotion makes you seem non-existent to the spath. You literally blend into their meaningless lives without notice.

I imagine that our emotional responses look like sharp blips on their radar. That’s what makes them notice us. Hide your emotions, express nothing on your face.

Gee, Sky, I didn’t know your brother was one too. Man, you just got lucky with your family, didn’t you? Sorry to hear that.

I remember a spath I dated who had a scar on his arm. I asked him what it was. He told me that his best friend had stabbed him. When I met his best friend, I noticed that he also had a scar on his arm. Turns out he had stabbed him back. Neither one of them cared about this. They were never upset with each other about it. I know because I had asked about it, and they both didn’t fully register the question, let alone say, “Yes,” when I asked if they thought it was majorly f*cked up that a friend would STAB them. And when I asked the initial stabber why he stabbed his friend, the answer was, “I don’t know. We were drinking and I had a knife. I just felt like it.” The best friend had just picked up the knife once the other guy had laid it down and stabbed him back. Problem solved.

So, a spath with a spath is almost like mutually assured destruction, but neither one cares. Which is why people like us who WOULD be bothered if our friend STABBED us for no reason need to stay the hell away from these crazy nut jobs.

Panther,
yep, the whole lot of them is toxic: P-bro, P-lil sis, P-mom, N-dad. I have one good sister and she moved far away with her N-husband years ago. She thought she was escaping, but she’s stuck in a toxic relationshit.

Sounds like you have been attracting spaths all your life, just like me. They are attracted to us “highly sensitive people” because we express all the emotions we feel intensely. Don’t give them any. Let them stab each other, that’s how it should be.

Panther
I think you got that just a wee bit wrong. He didn’t stab for NO reason, he stabbed his friend for a psychopathic reason, that is ‘b/c he FELT like doing it”. If he stabbed him for NO reason, that would sound schizophenic to me, but not spath. BIG dif in my book, one unconscious act of violence, the Other is a Choice to be violent. 🙂

GOOD INSIGHTS OXY!

Now, how do I reconcile what I know about n/spaths and the “pity plays” and the lies and manipulation, with a tender and compassionate heart? EDUCATION! I think LoveFraud, the recommended books, all the stories from overcomers here, and learning the traits, motives and tactics of spaths is essential to spath-proofing ourselves!

I agree, “Beware the tyranny of the weak” IS an excellent piece of advice! I Googled this phrase and found an interesting article, although what this guy refers to as “support vs SUPPORT”, I would call “enabling vs SUPPORT”. I need to get better at determining the difference!
http://www.authentic-empowerment.net/node/1063

Skylar….

It is true that they are attracted to “highly sensitive” people. And also, “kind, sweet, forgiving, loving” people.
You see, they mistake “kindess” for “weakness”.
And, in a sense, it is a weakness.
Strong, confident people take their time and stand up for themselves, and aren’t able to be charmed so easily.

Everytime I got involved with a man, it was at a time in my life that I felt lonely…and so I RUSHED into the relationship, let them charm me…didn’t listen to my gut feelings.

When I met my xhusb/socio, I was 33, unattatched for awhile…desparate for a companion…fearful that I would never get married and have a family…(all my sibs were married with children).

Even though I had a great career, (teacher/real estate agent), was size 5, had lots of money, my own home….
I SETTLED. I met a gorgeous looking man with sparkly eyes..women blushed when he walked into a room…he had a lucrative business of his own…and he lovebombed me to death. He was also ten yrs younger but people thought we were the same age.

When we got married, we looked Hollywood! He was sweet, affectionate, and charming and everyone LOVED him!

BUT, a few months before the wedding, I saw a different side of him. He was angry, abusive, and I was scared! But, I buried it because noone would believe me!

Anyway, he targetted me. He knew I had a soft heart, was sensitive, and he knew that he could manipulate me with his charm.

I had a weakness. Yes “I” was weak. As accomplished as I was, I had low self esteem deep down. And, I got caught up in the cycle of abuse. The more he put me down, the weaker I got…and I stayed with him and had 3 children with him.

His “good” (fake side) was SO good…but his “bad” (true self) was awful!!! He was finally diagnosed as a sociopath. Three therapists told me that he is unrehabilitative and to get out of the marriage!

Then, the first man I got involved with after my divorce from him….which was 5 yrs later…was a liar, charmer, manipulative sociopath! Why? I was lonely with 3 kids….and SETTLED just to have someone in my life.

Now I am single and unattatched. I have built myself up, rewired my brain…and I am never settling again. I know that I can be alone and content. I fill my life with all good things…lots of love and fun and friends and goals.

I am confident in myself and now NO man could ever charm me again.

I know that I will meet a healthy man someday….because I am not the same insecure person I WAS.

@ Oxy
I listened to you on the radio the other day over on Aftermath! Good job getting the word out about spaths! I think most people don’t really comprehend how evil these people are until they have experienced one first hand. And even if you do have the misfortune of experiencing it first hand, I remember thinking, where do I even begin trying to explain the insanity of this situation. EVERYTHING is a lie!

I have been reading lots of posts from other threads on this blog and I am still blown away how similar these spaths are! So creepy!

Hosanna, thank you, I should have thought to google that phrase and I didn’t…. but here is a great quote from it

“The weak prey on the strong to take on their responsibilities, and the strong, having pity or sympathy for the weak, often do. Sometimes the strong “take over” because they feel guilty that they are strong whereas others are weak. …”

Yes, that is so true too…..the “weak” do prey on us, because we are conditioned not to “kick someone when they are down” and to “give people a helping hand” and when we do one, or don’t do the other, we are conditioned to “feel guilty” because of it.

Thank you for giving this good insight and great link!

Hosanna,

The similarity is uncanny isn’t it? We have jokingly called it the “psychopaths play book” sort of like a sports team has a “play booK’ to tell them how to do their plays….and it seems that the psychopaths all studied the same “play book.”

The Pity ploy–page 120

The smear campaign page 198

The love bomb page 21

The devalue and discard Page 157

and so on….right down the line…word for word it seems.

Even my new therapist didn’t believe a word I said and I had to take in a witness and documents so he would believe my story. LOL

That’s the thing, the stories are so bizarre that no sane person would write them as fiction because they are TOOO WAYYYYY OUT to be believed.

Yeah, It would be hard to believe lots of the stories on this blog, if I had not lived it myself. It is so bizarre, so insane!! It is impossible to make any since out of it!! Impossible to understand why anyone would do all this crazy stuff, hard to imagine how they can sleep at night or live with themselves!! UNTIL you understand the strange motives of a amoral spath, it is crazy! I was blessed with therapists that saw through his stuff! I can’t imagine how much more traumatic it would be if your therapist didn’t have a clue… : (

Oxy and Hosanna,
It’s because humanity naturally works toward life and living but the spaths have chosen death and decay. That’s why all their values are backward and we get WTF? moments. It might be beyond your imagination to comprehend what it means to choose death and decay in slow motion as your life plan. It’s hard to comprehend. If they simply showed their derelict propensities, we would “sort of” get it, but they hide it behind a mirror. The mirror is held up so that we only see our own intentions and never theirs. When the mirror falls, we are aghast at the hideous sight.

I’ve been thinking that maybe that is the spath’s purpose in life. Even the worms and the maggots, which love death and decay, have a purpose: disintegrating the old so that the new can replace it. Maybe spaths are just the garbage men of the universe.

My trojan horse cop-spath BIL actually called himself that. He said, “it may seem like being a cop is a great job, but we are just garbage men. We deal with human garbage.” Later, I was watching the green river murderer, Gary Ridgeway, in a video. Paraphrased, he said, “Prostitutes are human garbage, I was just getting rid of the human garbage.”

They know what they are and what attracts them. sickos.

Edit: Not meaning that they are attracted to us because we are garbage, but after a spath attack, we either die or we turn over a new leaf! that’s for sure. They are the harbingers of change, perhaps.

Here’s to turning over a new leaf! We should design a bracelet with a leaf on it that LoveFraud overcomers can wear as a visual way of reminding ourselves that we are not alone in this and that there are people that understand and that there is new life and growth after the spath(s)! That would be cool!

I found some that I like, I think I will buy the leaf bracelet or the leaf ring to remind myself there is hope for regaining joy, life and hope. http://www.etsy.com/shop/stratussilver

what a beautiful idea, Hosanna.

Tobehappy, “They mistake kindness for weakness”

No mistake in my experience. My ex openly ridiculed acts of kindness…….declaring that his “friends” were too stupid to realise they were being used. He saw kindness and giving as a weakness and took full advantage whenever he could. From a neighbour calling at the shop to get him some milk to ripping me off for thousands. He used to say ….. If you love me you’ll get me a b or c. And yep I did it. I was complicit in this act of daylight robbery. Reading the accounts here helps me so much to see that I was targeted …just like all his previous women and to feel less ashamed that I allowed him to take nearly everything from me.
He didn’t get me ….I’m recovering…..I’d go as far to say that without the support from this forum I may have relapsed. Thank you

Great article, Oxy.

And nice idea about the “survivors ring,” Hosanna. Now we just need to come up with something a little more “masculine” for the male survivors!

Panther,

The story about your sister dying in your arms, as well as the horrible way in which your P-father handled it, is truly heartbreaking. I hope so much that someday you get to experience all the happiness you deserve.

Oxy, nice article……and soooo true.

It’s interesting how someone can point out a phrase like this……it’s almost a ‘tell’.

Thanks for your contributions to LF….you are a valuable asset to all survivors! 🙂

Great article Oxy.

The most overused saying ‘you need to move on’..I should know lol!

Other favourites/classics of the spath (when caught),
‘its in the past’
‘you need to forgive and let go’
‘I never said/did that, its your imagination’
‘I would not have to lie/thieve/deceive if you would just change’
‘its not you, its me, I am depressed/sad/ill because you have made me this way’
‘you need to draw a line under this’
‘everything you say is not relevant’
‘you are just confused, it wasn’t me’
etc

I’m sure others could contribute to the spath handbook. It is so much easier now, when people say these things, I just smile and think ‘to**er’ ..strongawoman is right, they know exactly what they are doing ..they like to ‘get one over’ on anybody ..makes them feel superior ..pathetic is what they are. Thanks again Oxy.

Hosannah,

There are plenty of women in our shoes, having married spaths. I personally think that you are being too hard on yourself. If we had been warned (by those who knew the spaths “true colors”), we would not have married them. No doubt in my mind. My husband’s family members knew the truth about him (his character was not so great), but allowed me to marry him. Due to him, I went through hell, finding out during our separation that his family members knew that he was crooked. They still don’t recognize that their son and brother is a spath. Currently, he’s had some type of mental breakdown (in their opinion). I have had enough of this whole family. I refuse to educate them on spaths. They can figure it out on their own (if they ever do) – that it’s in their family tree.

Bluejay,

the “being warned” is not always (in fact SELDOM is) effective because by the time someone does warn us (if we are warned) we are SO DEEP into the LOVE BOMBING that we will not believe a word they say.

I was warned about a business relationship with a psychopath and warned by someone I TRUSTED their judgment, but I thought “Oh, you just don’t know what you are talking about, he is a prince” I was also warned about a boss I went to work for that courted me like a lover for the job, and then….the devaluation started the day I took the job.

I have tried to warn people about psychopaths they were involved with or dating, and NEVER ONCE have they listened to my warning. Instead, I was the one who was “labeled” as a “trouble maker” or worse.

I have tried to help women who were both patients and friends to “see” that they did not have to endure abuse. The thing is until THEY realize what is going on, and you cannot “raise their thinking” because they are NOT ready to “believe” what they SEE…it is called “denial” and as long as they are in denial, there will be no changes. Denial is what helps them cope, but it also keeps them chained in “slavery” to the abuse. All we can do is to be there for them once THEY decide to get out.

We become attached, we form a bond just because we are capable of real love, and they use it against us. I believed his lies, I loved him deeply, I had no idea who he really was. Good Lord it doesn’t get much more evil than that!

Dear Oxy,
thanks for another great article! SO true!!

Dear Hosanna,
do not be too hard on yourself. I tried to read the facebook entry with “naive” and with “spathradar” eyes: if you read it with naive eyes it is a bit too sweet but he tries really hard to be nice. With the “educated eye” you see all the manipulation and exaggeration and its sick hidden agenda. It is like seeing the three dimensional pictures, you need to practice the eyes to get the whole picture. http://www.google.ch/imgres?q=3+d+bilder&hl=de&biw=1280&bih=661&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=pevD_xUgsRHDJM:&imgrefurl=http://www.fraktalwelt.de/3d/gallery3d.htm&docid=qdQDR7rMLBg9RM&imgurl=http://www.fraktalwelt.de/3d/images/3d04.gif&w=640&h=480&ei=fCPRTuWoMJCf-QbI5o3oDg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=357&vpy=348&dur=560&hovh=173&hovw=231&tx=110&ty=102&sig=106822160630061929519&page=3&tbnh=128&tbnw=171&start=30&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:30 .

And you mentioned an important “tell” me thinks: them referring themselves to being or behaving in front of the public as “martyrs” or “saints” (or at least showing off as… convincingly and Academy award winning)

I hope you are feeling better Libelle!

@libelle & @bluejay
Yes, my therapist kept saying I was too hard on myself also, thank you for sharing your insights! I struggle with forgiving myself for being so thoroughly duped/conned.

He lies and lies and will deny the facts and proof of his lies even when you have proof in documents and witnesses. It is like living in the Twilight Zone! My heart breaks for the people here on Lovefraud that have children with a spath as they can’t so easily cut them out of their life… what torture that must be! I am so happy to be out of that nightmare! From now on I will be be much much more cautious with whom I invest my heart!

!!!

Ox Drover,

It is in the past, I know, but I’d like to think (I can dream) that I would have been smart, listening to anyone who would have warned me about the spath, and acting appropriately with the information.

Hosanna,

I have met a few women who know a spath (eg. sibling, parent, boyfriend, etc.), all of them having stories to tell about the crazymaking individual. Spaths are out there – all of them being pathological liars and more. If we don’t know about the fact that spaths exist, not recognizing the traits of the disorder, how can we continue to be hard on ourselves? It will take time to get over habitual thinking (I had a counselor tell me this). I struggle everyday with my thoughts, being totally ticked off with the spath and some of his relatives. I’m hoping one day that I can get past my anger.

@KatyDid
Thank you for your kind words! I am sorry you have also had this experience. Glad we have all seen the light!! It sounds like you have done very well for yourself financially and you have a beautiful daughter, that is very cool! A huge blessing in this economy! And you work in the health care industry, that must be very rewarding to know your work helps improve the quality of people’s lives! Good for you!

Hopefully we can all find that balance that Oxy is talking about and not get stuck in the grieving process. Yeah, the anger seems to flare-up every once in a while, but it is less and less often. Even as financially challenged as I am right now, I am still thankful for my friends and family and for something I discovered within myself, my priorities have been refined, I am more aware of my inner strength, my own zest for life, my personal joy, my faith, my capacity for love and truth, he can’t take that away from me, ever! The truth really does set us free!

BlueJay
I am like you, hoping that I would have listened to a warning. But I go further b/c I know I would have actively pursued any neg report. I wanted a father for my daughter b/c I was stupid and thought a child didn’t need a dad so I got pregs on purpose by a weak narcissist who lived for himself so I knew he didn’t want me. So when I realized my kid needed a dad and I wanted a man to share my life with, I stopped telling men that I only wanted a date for the movies and I told my dates that I was looking for serious relationships only.

My childhood was not fun, my family is all bizarre lowlifes like stereotypes you see in scary movies….
but I worked hard to improve myself in education, career, and quality of life. I obtained a degree from a VERY highly rated university after having a career where we literally changed cardiology practice forever, and I had bought a house as a single woman, new car, and could afford it and the world travel that I enjoyed.

SO when I met this wonderful man who seemed too good to be true b/c his words were kinda canned and everything was so downhome folksy. But, EVERYONE raved about what a heart of gold he had and how lucky I was b/c he had worked full time and attended university for his degree so that’s why he hadn’t married younger, plus he was supposedly bashful and didn’t want to marry a local. I REALLY looked for reality b/c I had a pedophile father and parents who hated each other so I didn’t want that life for MY daughter.

I would have listened if someone had told me there was more to be investigated. MY problem was my spath managed his reputation VERY intensely. No old girlfriends around. And found out later, his childhood friends weren’t close to him at all, didn’t really know him except by time not by hanging out with him.

Would warn present girlfriend but she is SURE that I didn’t take the time to really get to know him and unlike ME, SHE Understands him. She’s a local who moved 40 miles away so lost touch with him until she separated from her husband. Once she met my husband, she went ahead and got her divorce b/c my husband was so much better than working out her marriage with her kid’s father. As I said, she thinks she understands him b/c she decided I was unworthy of him….Like living with him 17 yrs was not enough exposure to discover the real him….

For those who say I would not have listened, that’s crap. I know ME, they don’t. I would HAVE LISTENED b/c protecting my daughter was more important to me than having a man.

I know that I looked for an abuser and was LIED to by others b/c they thought it was none of my beeswax (i.e. MINIONS) I NEVER knew about minions, and if I had, that would have made all the dif in what I asked and how. His mom and family HELPED him scam me, presented this big family front that fell apart within a year of marrying him.

Bluejay, I want to get past my anger too, all the duping done to me and then blaming me for believing it and accusing me of duping them when I was open and transparent, that’s how they were able to scam me.

I do find that the better I make my life, the less I THINK about what was done to me. BUT when I do, I’m still angry how I was blamed and trashed for having too much integrity. WTF? And my anger is probably why I am rambling now, as if I STILL need someone to believe what was done to me -guess that’s proof I am still the crazy woman after all, the one who just wanted to be heard, the one who was silenced and erased from existence.

Hosanna
I do like an spath who is obvious. Yours is pretty obvious. I learned there are those who are so sure of their superiority that they are blatant about their depravity. My husbands brother is one. My husband is covert, he gets more out of duping people than aggressive in your face bullying. Your sounds like he is also aggressive about rubbing peoples faces in his contempt. Some people are drawn to that. Minions, psychos, a*…. am so sorry you got taken in by him. And am so glad you saw the light.

Blue and KatyD,

When I was very young (21-ish) I dated a guy who had some major issues, and I was so ga-ga over him. It was probably my FIRST BIG CRUSH (“true love!”) and he had been introduced to me indirectly through a friend. A year and a half or so and my heart BROKEN in two I ran to my male friend (sort of a “big brother”) and poured my heart and tale of woe out, and he said “Yea, I knew” and I screamed WHY DIDN’T YOU TELLLLLLL ME????? And then he said “Would you have believed me?” and I knew I would NOT have believed him….even someone I trusted and looked up to his judgment. Sure it would have been great to have said “Oh, if someone had warned me I would have been saved all this heart ache” but I KNOW IN MY CASE that was not true. I wish I could know that I would have been wiser…but I realize that my own ROSY COLORED GLASSES were blinding me to the truth in every case. Not only just not being warned.

But, that doesn’t mean I an “stoooopid” or anything else negative, it simply means I AM HUMAN….and I am able to be fooled by lies, that I was too trusting, and I wanted to believe the BEST about people, and I wanted to love and be loved.

Sure, I was angry at myself and angry at them…but I’m done beating myself up or playing “let’s pretend everything is lovely” or “let’s pretend none of this happened” because I did ESCAPE from those [email protected] Sadder….but WISER….and STRONGER…

Oxy
Would you agree that you might also still be taken in by an spath but with your experience, you learned to cut your losses sooner and like you said, no more blaming yourself for the scam that another perpetrates on GOOD people!

Think I may have missed out on learning about jerks b/c I was SO NOT ROSIE looking that I dumped them at the first sign of jerkdom. I was SO convinced no one would love me that I was suspicious when they said they did. IRONIC that’s what happened with my spath, he didn’t love me even though he said he did; I convinced myself I was WRONG when I was RIGHT!! Duh. duh. Someday I will laugh about this too. But not yet.

Katy,

Yea, I got slightly ripped by a psychopathic person not long ago, but I pretty much immediately went and stayed NC and because I was not really emotionally connected to this person I was not emotionally wounded.

Sure, I can be duped again, but I will not be duped like I was duped. I will not allow myself to be WOUNDED deeply because I won’t let them get close enough to wound me like that. TRUST is no longer given freely, but is EARNED….and even people who are inside my “circle of trust” must MAINTAIN HONESTY in order to stay in that circle.

I an into a guy this weekend, he is in my living history group, and I’ve known him since college. We used to pal around back then, not date, and he is divorced now, and lives close and he had joined my living history group and we started palling around again…and did so for a year or so. Had lots of mutual interests etc. so it was FUN to have someone to go places with. But then he did something that was sort of “shady” over a small thing…broke a “deal” we had, he says he didn’t renig on the deal, he just “changed it.” LOL Then got really HUFFY with me when I called BS on it. Called me ugly names sitting at MY DINING ROOM TABLE…and I instructed him to leave my house IMMEDIATELY.

I haven’t seen him but a time or two just by accident at an auction or whatever, and I just make like lhe is INVISIBLE…the POTTED PLANT TREATMENT. Don’t pay him any more attention than I would a cheap plastic potted plant. He had a tent set up at our event this Thanksgiving….but I totally ignored him like he was invisible. HE seemed uncomfortable though, so he was not around for any of our social events, or the campfire story time last night, and if my presence made him uncomfortable, it was NOT mutual.

Having thinned out my Rolodex, I am becoming quite comfortable and not allowing even people that I was close to but have since deleted them from my “inner circle” bother me any more. Some of these people were people I truly loved as “close friends” that I would have “done anything” for. But now, I realize that they are TOXIC. Maybe they are NOT full fledged “psychopaths” but for one reason or another they come up short on Oxy’s HONESTY METER and I sure as heck don’t need them in my life.

KatyDid,

I don’t think any of us are stupid. What bothers me is that so much of our life was taken up figuring the truth out on our own, without the help of the spath’s family members (I don’t think his friends knew him well enough to have figured him out, so they couldn’t have clued me in). I could have had a nervous breakdown, ended up in a psych ward, and they still wouldn’t have “spilled the beans” about brother dearest. It’s only while we were separated, then I learned some facts about the spath – could they not have told me this stuff sooner? As far as I’m concerned, they will never be off the hook. I can go on with life, but I will always remember what happened.

Hosanna
Sorry, i should haved edited my post b/c I seem to have mislead you. I was extremely successful when I met my husband. I am now unemployed and frankly would have been a street person had he not been required to share our community assets with me. Even then, he defrauded me out of much of my due and these attorneys demand to be paid first. Well, my husband had control of all our money, he had moved our accounts to another bank and the accounts were in his name only. So I was at his mercy. He gave me enough for rent/food but not medical and definitely not enough for an attorney. I am trying to get divorced by doing a self divorce. And my health is bad, and I am older with no recent work history b/c I worked on our business, I was not employed. Employers treat self employed women as if they did not work at all. Jobs hard to get and harder at my age and with my bad health. I have enough for two more months living and hope to have a job by then or I will be homeless. Another irony b/c when I left him, I told him I’d rather be homeless than live with him. HE, on the other hand, has all our assets and is able to invest them in the investments that I recommended. He is financially sound BECAUSE OF ME, my ability to live below our means, to save, to invest, and to have our home paid off, which he now has rent free. B/c I can’t afford an attorney, and it wouldn’t do any good in the town where his family reigns king, I am Farked. When I say he hits ALL the definitions of spath, I am not exaggerating. It was a LONG con, as well as abuse and nearly the death of me.

BlueJay:

Yes, like you, I Don’t understand why did they help him hide who he is? I mean, he went around the whole time telling people he didn’t want me and pity party how I wouldn’t let him go. To MY FACE, he said anyone who said such a thing was a jealous liar. When I asked them why they said such a thing, they LIED to me and said they didn’t know what I was talking about and that I was a paranoid crazy wife. If they wanted me to leave him so badly, why withhold what I needed to know in order to leave?

But if ya don’t want the wife, why not let her go when she says she will leave, and leave everything to you? I know the answer now. It’s about control, not about the norm logic. Control to DOMINATE and WIN. And if I went before he was done damaging me, then he didn’t get the feeling of WINNING, did he?

Yes, you final sentence is the one I live by too. I can and WILL go on with life, but I will always remember what was done to me.

Oxy
Just as a guide, when did you start thinning your rolodex? How/when did you determine who was toxic and who was a keeper?
If someone you’ve written off gets their act together and steps up to accountibility and expressed true remorse, maybe they won’t get into your inner circle, but would you still potted plant treat them?

@KatyDid
I am so sorry! Truly devastating! I hope the court makes him pay you alimony and child support! I am having a very hard time finding a job also. I will pray for you, I am glad you survived the creep! I hope things are better for you soon!

Hosanna,
Things got better for me the day I moved out. Until then, there were NO possibilities in my life. Now there are ENDLESS possibilities. I state the reality, that I am unemployed and have been defrauded. BUT I also state that I have worked to get a self divorce and with that freedom, he can’t take from me any more. LIfe goes only up from that.

So I will pray for you to find more than a job but work that fulfills your soul. It’s the same that I ask from God for myself. And ya know what? God wants us to have work that fulfills our soul too. So I pretty much have confidence in finding just that.

My main reason for posting to you, and I know it got out of hand with my ramblings, is to tell you that you touch me, I identify with you, and I don’t have to meet your spath to understand the no account jerk. Their deeds announce their depravity and by their works I KNOW THEM.

Katy, the thinning the Rolodex started slowly….when I realized people were using me, and I started seeing that I was trying to appease them, or I was afraid to “hurt their feelings” and when I started setting boundaries they kept ib crossing them.

The people I have cut out have not made any attempts to “straighten up” their acts….my son C is an example. I gave him another and another chance, and finally when he lied to me again, I was DONE. I’m at the point now, Katy that it is ONE AND DONE….it doesn’t matter….when people are DIS-HONEST they don’t get another chance.

Hosanna

Ridiciulous Lyrics.

Athena

FreetoBeMe58!!
I NEVER thought of that! You are right, my husband will NOT want to be seen to lose in court. I am feeling empowered again b/c you have just handed me valuable insight, that I am NOT without leverage afterall. He WILL have to abide by the agreement. IMAGE is EVERYTHING to him. He will NOT want the court to show he is a FRAUD and a LIAR!

I am waiting NOW for him to sign the divorce papers. It has been three years of slowly getting financial statements, finding out what I am entitled to, how to get him to comply, filling out papers, and writing the final MSA.

It’s been extremely Hard on me not just b/c he avoided answering but also b/c it was emotionally devastating to me to discover so many betrayals that I didn’t know, things he’d done behind my back that revealed he NEVER intended to stay married, that it was a con job from the get go b/c it STARTED when we got engaged. Yet do you know I had That conversation with him, that if he wasn’t sure he wanted to marry, he needed to say so before the wedding? And he assured me he couldn’t wait to show me how much he loved me and start our lives together. Wave after wave of grief poured from me with every revelation. I didn’t want any of it to be true and the fact that I buried my head in DEEP SHIATE thinking I was being virtuous by not giving up and being supportive of him, not telling people what cruelty he was doing to them (well, actually I did tell… but they didn’t believe me so so I stopped. it was one of his points of anger at me, where was my loyalty if I wanted our marriage to work. But I had this damned integrity and I thought if others had expectations of HIM being a person of integrity too, then he’d stop some of his behavior. I thought his behavior was b/c no one in authority said NO to him. I didn’t realize it was too late, he was embedded with game playing and would NEVER be an honorable person.)

lalalalalala. Almost feel like a giddy child. I am almost free!!! I will have a life once again!! Oh I can hardly wait!!

Free2Bme,

That is the kicker—the DIS-HONESTY is not an “accident” or anything that can (in my opinion) be over looked. The old saying “screw me once, shame on you, screw me twice, SHAME ON ME.”

If someone “hurts my feelings” in a way that is CLEARLY not INTENDED to be nasty or dishonest, then Ii can easily over look that, but when it is a situation of just PLAIN MEANNESS or DIS-HONESTY, then that is a “whole nuther ball game” and I won’t over look that.

In the past one of my “friends” frequently hurt my feelings, and then I found out that she stole something from me —and then a while later I “pretended none of that had happened” and gave her a chance to get back into my circle—and darned if I didn’t catch her stealing from me AGAIN. That was THE END. Funny thing was when I CAUGHT her stealing the second time, I CRIED and CRIED because I was afraid I would embarrass her! LOL

It is almost impossible for me to NOW look back and recall just how devastated I was in those days…how unsure of myself I was. How I had DOOR MAT written across my back! LOL But now I am not unsure about the boundaries, but it is still a learning process, and sometimes people do “blind side” me once in a while, but my “recovery” time is much quicker, and each time I learn some new lessons. I’ve also learned too that people who accept BAD behavior from others toward me, “fence sitters” I think is what Sky calls them, are also NOT MY CLOSE AND TRUSTED FRIENDS EITHER. So if someone else hangs around with dis-honest people as their “close friends” (and knows about their dishonesty or meanness) I see that as a BIG RED FLAG as well with those people. I’m getting VERY PICKY about those people I allow close to me any more. VERRRRRRY picky.

Oxy
I see merit in your decision. I think I will do the same. A thief who steals from me is no friend b/c a friend would know if they NEEDED something, I would have GIVEN it to them.

One of the things I had to learn was to be mean. I used to be afraid of it b/c I didn’t want anyone to think I was like my mom, who terrorized the neighborhood b/c she was big, fat, loud, and mean. But I am an adult and reasonable people can see I am not mean, but I am a person who is discerning and expects others to be accountable. And if being accountable makes others uncomfortable, then that ought to be a red flag for ALL to see.

Time for this ol’ gal to stop being afraid of what others think of me. You are spot on in your discernment. Liar don’t shade my door. Nor backstabber, nor gossip, nor hypocrite, not ridiculer…. gosh I’ve thinned my rolodex. Sure saves on Christmas stamps!

Katy, I have found in my case that it is important for me to never let my ex-spath see me sweat, so to speak. If he sees any fear in me he will play that to the max so I stand with my head held high no matter how much I am trembling inside. I was a door mat for many years and he hopes to play on that. Ain’t gonna happen! Keep in mind I’m living in my own little Fort Knox here….LOL. Police and divorce attorneys also have too much info……he has no place to hide so he has to just go away.

FreetoBeMe58
I have argued that there are more spaths. Look at all those people who think Sandusky “isn’t that bad’ and that “a big deal is being made of nothing”. But maybe it’s that there are more minions, lots more willing to do what they should feel ashamed of doing. I do think people are less considerate of others and it seems they feel entitled to be jerks when they’d NEVER want someone to treat them that way. But I REALLY think there’s a bell shaped curve and those with decency and integrity are on the end of one tail, and the minions and mind numbed thoughtless zombies are in the center, and the spaths are in the other tail, and it’s a LONG tail.

@KatyDid
I identify with you also and so many others on this blog. I am still amazed how similar the behavior of the spaths is. I am moved to tears with many of the stories of abuse. It is truly a blessing to have a place where people really understand. We have all been through emotional Vietnam and even though the people and places are different the behavior, abuse, pain and suffering, healing and recovery are the same. We are not just survivors, we are on our way to OVERCOMING THIS!! I want to encourage you with your divorce without a lawyer. I did that also. Find someone in the courthouse to help you know all the filings and serving that you need to do. Understand what hearsay is and call him on it if necessary!! Know before you go in what are absolute needs and what things you can let slide, because you may need to compromise on some things. Take copies of everything into court with you. I put most of his abuse in the paperwork when I filed, but when you are in court stick to the stuff you can prove. I had copies of the supporting documents attached to my request for a hearing. On the judges copy of the paperwork I carefully labeled all my supporting documents and on the bottom of each page I wrote a short note to the Judge regarding the exact location of the information on that page that I wanted to bring to his/her attention and then I highlighted it. I was told that it would be helpful for the Judge to go through the paperwork quickly but to help him/her catch the points that I was trying to make. Try to make it all as concise and accurate as possible. I was amazed how well things went for me in court! I had a friend come with me and she prayed the whole time in the courtroom. My ex spath made a fool out himself in court. If you just keep your cool and stick to the facts I think you will be surprised. Please let us know when you are going to court so I can pray. You are getting closer to being free from this monster and you will have a fresh start! AND we will all be celebrating with you!

Free2Bme,

The excess empathy is my “natural” position, the thing that seems to me to be what I “automatically” fall into with people that I have placed my trust in…it just seems to be that I automatically find an excuse for what they have done. So I have to WORK hard at seeing and responding to the DISHONESTY without making excuses for it.

I have had to set some HARD BOUNDARIES not only with others, but ALSO WITH MYSELF.

It may feel like it hurts more at the moment to cut someone out of your life than to tolerate their abuse, but like a boil, if you don’t drain it, if you don’t cut out a cancer, it will EAT YOU ALIVE….we must get the TOXIN out of our systems, and if that means use a “rusty butcher knife” to cut them out, we grit our teeth and we do the emotional surgery. In the end, it is the ONLY way to survive.

It seems like settling estates always brings out the greed in people more than any other time. There is the emotional coin as well as the spendable coin…just do what is honest, and don’t let what others do or say make you feel bad about it. I call it the DO RIGHT RULE, if you are doing what is honest and right, then fark’em.

Dear Free2Bme,

ABSOLUTELY you are entitled to a fee, as per law. Let them stew, let them scream! Plug your ears my dear, they are GREEDY SWINE!!! Do not let their opinions of you bother you in the least! They have no love or respect for you, and they are not concerned with what is “fair” or “right” or “honest” it is ALL about greed.

As long as YOU know what you have done is right, then fark’em! I will be able to hear the screams of rage at my house when they find out that you are taking a fee. LOL ROTFLMAO!

dear Free2Bme,
YEAH! I say your news is a little victory and I like to live vicariously through others good fortunes! Yahooies. Good for you and I am happy that you claimed your own due. That is splendid. What we should ALL do, b/c YOU EARNED IT, not just for the work you did, but for being who you are – that is “NOT LIKE THEM”. Your caregiving probably extended your mother’s life. You were a blessing to her. It is only right that you receive a blessing as well. That it sticks in their craw a little bit?…. well, that’s just icing on the cake. CONGRATS to you.

Free2B, your sibs were glad to let you be the one to take care of mommy. That way they didn’t have to trouble themselves. Then they were happy to have you settle the estate but that way they could CRITICIZE everything you did with it. Because they are greedy they expect you to be greedy so they will be upset with whatever you do—and god forbid that you would have something that you want….like buy the family home instead of sell it to strangers. LOL And Oh, will they ever scream UNFAIR!!!! when you take the executor’s fee that you are entitled to. They never once thought you wouldn’t do this for free like the good little servant that you are.

Well, I think when it is over they will be out of your life, and I think that them being out of your life is a BLESSING! With relatives like that you are better off without them. Me too.

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