It’s disconcerting, no question about it, working with someone who’s antisocial, with real sociopathic qualities (forgetting, again, for the moment, the hell of living with such an individual).
Recently, I’m struck again, in my work with a client I’ll call Howard, by the brew of certain qualities, certain attitudes, certain defenses that strike me as forming a rather sociopathic orientation.
Howard is 19. He understands the suffering he’s causing others in his life: he can “talk the talk,” meaning that he “gets it” on a cognitive level. He can say, for instance, quite accurately, what he’s doing, why it’s wrong, that it’s wrong, even that he feels bad about it.
How badly he really feels is highly debatable. In my view, not nearly as badly as he claims, and certainly not nearly badly enough to make real efforts at change. In our sessions, I confront him regularly with my perception of the discrepancy between his assertions of remorse and regret, and what he’s really willing to do about them?
I see him as someone who can hear my challenges without reacting very defensively. His undefensiveness may seem like a good quality, and maybe it is; but it’s also likely that it stems, to some extent, from his ultimate unconcern with what I feel about, and think, of him. That is, I suspect it stems in part, at least, from his relative indifference to my (or anyone’s) view of him.
When I say he’s undefensive, I mean this specifically with regard to how he fields my confrontations. He is fairly placid in his absorption of them. On another level, though, he’s quite defensive in a classically narcissistic/sociopathic fashion: On one hand, as I’ve noted, he can seem remorseful (quite regretful) for his misbehaviors and abusive attitudes. But if you should probe him at all—not just accept his statements of remorse at face value—he predictably lapses into his truer position: this is a position from which his abusiveness is always, ultimately, rationalized as a response to his perceiving himself as having been victimized, persecuted or otherwise treated unfairly in some fashion.
Now he is canny enough to attempt to disguise this pattern, especially with initial assertions of politically correct sounding accountability. But always, with a little prodding, you will bring him back to his true experience in which self-justification for his abusiveness and an attitude of unaccountability prevail.
Just as noteworthy: no matter how many times you point out to him how rapidly he shifts from taking “seeming” responsibility for his behavior to abruptly abdicating responsibility for the same behavior (again, rationalizing it as a response to others’ persecution), he is rather uninterested in this contradiction and basically unconcerned to reconcile it. He just doesn’t find this contradiction particularly troubling, peculiar, meaningful, or worth his time to look at.
This is a highly sociopathic quality and attitude.
It seems to reflect the “glitch” that allows this personality, in his blithely untroubled, incurious fashion, to verbalize awareness and regret over his abusiveness and exploitiveness on the one hand, while on the other (almost simultaneously) to rationalize it as a valid reaction to his perceived, or contrived, victimization.
When I confront him routinely with this contradiction, he may give lip service to the validity of my observation; but always, his interest to explore it, to own its possible ramifications, is superficial and transient.
Similarly, he will periodically assert his desire to cease his hurtful behaviors; then, in the next minute or so, when presented with evidence that he’s continued the very behaviors he’s claimed to want to cease, he may say something like, “Well, maybe I’m really not that motivated. To be honest, I’m really not.”
The honesty itself could almost be seen as admirable. But the problem lies in his blithe disinterest in the rapid, contradictory nature of his assertions. He isn’t embarrassed by this. Point it out to him and he’s almost bored, like a kid who’ll say, when inconvenienced, “Whatever.”
I regard this pattern as a sociopathic form of indifference to the contradiction between one’s statements, and between one’s statements and ongoing actions. What’s striking isn’t the contradictory content itself, but the missing shame and embarrassment when confronted with the nature of the discrepant communications.
This can leave me shaking my head, privately, in a kind of amazement. But even if I were to shake my head in visible amazement, while Howard might notice it, and might understand why he’s left me shaking my head, you can bet he wouldn’t care to make any more sense of himself to me than he cares to make sense of himself to himself—which is very little.
(This article is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is for convenience’s sake, not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the behaviors and attitudes discussed.)
Ox Drover
Dear Steve,
WOW!!! This is a very ______ description of the psychopath’s indifference to the opinions of others. Notice I left a _____ blank following the word “very” because frankly I cant come up with a word that “fits” and really says what I want it to say. “Good” isn’t enough, “great” sounds too trite, I am just gobsmacked by this article and I’ve read it through 3 or 4 times and my mouth hanging open and going “yea, yea, right on, ohhhhhhh…..” over and over.
The indifference of Howard toward your opinion of him is so well described that I can visualize him sitting there in the chair slumped in front of you. OMG! I’ve also seen “Harolds” who will instead of this indifference become ENRAGED at being confronted, my own little darling offspring for one….but once when he was in court mandated therapy and I was in the room with him and the therapist he pulled a Harold on both the therapist and me….funny though, I don’t think the therapist “GOT” what P-son was though…I think P son had snowed him in their private sessions between the two times I was with them.
That rapid, contradictory flip flop between what they say (yea, “politically correct hype”) and how they are behaving I think is what makes therapy counter productive for them, they can use the PC WORDS and phrases to snow people with their “good intentions” instead of the people seeing their actions. THANKS, Steve. This is a hum-dinger of an article! Yea, I think that’s the particular technical term I was looking for “a hum-dinger of a description” of a psychopath in therapy! LOL Thanks!
bulletproof
Steve interesting, Oxy it sounds comical in the darkest possible way a psychopath in therapy! lol
Steve you say:
“the problem lies in his blithe disinterest in the rapid, contradictory nature of his assertions. He isn’t embarrassed by this. Point it out to him and he’s almost bored, like a kid who’ll say, when inconvenienced, “Whatever.”
That is why therapy is futile and confronting a psychopath with the psychotherapeutic skills that would normally yield a benefit will only end in one way- with the therapist shaking his/her head and the psychopath rock solidly unreached, unrelated to and sadly unengaged with
Steve Becker, LCSW
hey Oxy…thanks so much for the feedback. and Bulletproof, same. appreciate it. Oxy…glad the article hit home so much. that’s a good sign, when it hits home with YOU.
Ox Drover
Thanks Steve, unfortunately WAY too many of the articles apply to me, mostly the ones about “1001 things I did wrong in dealing with a psychopath” LOL At least I am getting to where I can LAUGH about these things instead of have them :hit home” with me and go into a crying jag that lasts for a week…and yea, I’ve had that happen!
Every day I am here at LF I find so much new to ruminate on or to think about or just apply to my life and thinking and the things I do. It seems like it is a never ending supply of great analogies, great thoughts, great philosophies or just great conversation about life and how to live it in a way that is good, productive and satisfying. I can’t think of any place on the planet that has more great folks or just plain smart people than Have collected here at LF thanks to our hostess Donna! Man o man, what a great place to learn things and meet interesting folks. Your contributions here Steve have always been enlightening and thought provoking. Your teaching has been productive with me, and this one just was a HUMMMMM-DINGER!
Hopeforjoy
This kind of crazy talk has been hard to really put my finger on, like your head is swimming after talking to them. And Steve, you’re right about the nonchalant attitude, they are not bothered by their contradictions and expect us to except WHATEVER they say.
They can contradict themselves in the same sentence and be very earnest in their desire for you to believe all of the nonsense coming your way.
I need to re-read this article because it was an ah-ha moment in regards to the conversation I had with spath this morning. Nonsense!
Ox Drover
Dear Hope4,
It is back to what Dr. Bob Hare said in Without Conscience, about they know the WORDS but not the MUSIC. Trying to get across the meanings of words like “love” and “honesty” is “trying to teach a pig to sing, it frustrates you and pitheses off the pig.”
I saw that behavior over and over and over and somehow didn’t “ah ha” what was actually going on….until about 4 years ago the last time I saw P-son in prison on a visit there and he was ONE SECOND talking about “but mommmmm what would Jesus do” and the next minute, the next second, he was looking at me with those “Charllie Manson” eyes and saying “You wouldn’t like me very much if you knew just how horrible my crime (murder) was, way worse than the cops even knew.” then, PRESTO-CHANGE-O, he was back to “but mommmmm, what would Jesus do?”
The change happened in the blink of an eye it was so fast, and I GOT IT that time, I really did. It was like Bob Hare’s words popped up inside my brain. I felt like I had been hit in the face with a bucket of ice water that chilled me to the marrow. I knew then he was EVIL, there was NO redemption, no going back, and no changing. He did not care what Jesus would do…he was using that to manipulate me, to make me feel guilty to twist me to what he wanted me to do—lighten up on the crap he was pulling. Help him do what he wanted me to do, even though it was dishonest.
I’m not sure why it took me so long, Hope4, but I think we reach it when we are ready and that “ah ha” moment comes. STeve’s articles give me quite a few ah ha moments too.
skylar
Oxy,
yeah, they have a weird connection with words BECAUSE they don’t have a connection that ties it to emotions.
A few days back I posted a link with a video showing the brain scans of psychopaths during MRI or some other imaging. The p’s and some controls were shown some words on flash cards and the MRI showed which part of the brains were being affected. During emotionally charged words like Love or Hate or Kill, the Normal controls lit up different parts of the brain vs. neutral words. But with the P’s nothing changed. Furthermore, the part of the brain that they were lighting up the most was the back of the head. I think that part of the brain is Also known as the SNAKE brain because even reptiles have that.
My xP once came home Raging because one of the espresso girls had gotten a tattoo and was showing it to her friend.
He said, “I bitched her out and I told her that she might as well pick the petals off a flower – tattoos are so disgusting.”
Well the reason he hates tattoos is evident in his choice of words (which he was always getting mixed up). At some point he had heard the word, “Deflower” and he liked the sound of it. He knew what it meant and he was attracted to the word because he is a pedophile and likes the idea of ruining something innocent, more than anything. The tattoo pissed him off because he had plans or fantasies to “deflower” this young girl and she beat him to it by “deflowering” herself in his eyes. She was no longer supply. Boo Hoo.
They give themselves away because no one is as stupid as they are.
skylar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaTfdKYbudk
Here it is, they use SPECT to image the brain.
MRI showed no differences.
Ox Drover
Thanks for the vid link Sky, but I can’t go there now, as my air card allotment is up for the month until tomorrow. So have to stay away from videos.
“deflowering”—LOL oh, well. He missed out on that one. LUCKY HER!
aussiegirl
Steve:
You have it all completely wrong!
The guy in your story is NOT 19 and he’s NOT called “Howard”!
Hell, he’s NOT even in America!!!!
His name is B——– and he is 47 and he lives in Australia!
(So exact a description that it made me feel all creepy and nauseous…)