Lovefraud recently received the following e-mail from a reader who we’ll call Carla:
Can you help me with co-parenting with a sociopath? Divorced three months ago, after a two-year fight for my rights. He is not complying as you know.
I am going crazy with the way he only shows his wonderful, smooth qualities to the children. I have three boys. I can’t stand sending them on weekends to a man who never calls them for two weeks and then lavishes them with charm and gifts. It makes me sick that I am struggling because he has not released even one of 26 accounts to me as decreed in the divorce settlement. He pays my bills and deducts them from the alimony. He follows the agreement under his own conditions and it confuses the attorneys. He won’t discuss the children with me or offer any assistance to them as a father. He is 100 percent focused on his new victim, his girlfriend, a new young, widow. Spending all the money he hid on her. But the kids have “buddy” to whisk them from one expensive activity to another while I am struggling to pay the bills.
I have greater anxiety now than when we were married. He openly emotionally abuses me. Before it was more covert and I got immune to the invalidation and blame. NOW I am discarded since I chose not to play by his rules of cheating, drugs, gambling, lying, withholding sex. He isn’t nice to me at all. Cruel. It was easier being married. He did all these things and he kept me blinded by being secretive and giving me a high-income surgeon’s wife lifestyle. I know the secrets now along with my attorney but he looks perfect in the community.
I miss the financial security and vacations. Now someone else shares those things with him and all I did was give him three beautiful children to brag about and add to his narcissism.
I say terrible things about him to the two older children, ages 6 and 13. I tell them how he is not following the agreement, lying and spending money on drugs and women.
Is so frustrating. I see what is real but no one else does. I am afraid my children are going to prefer him (and his girlfriend) because he is so charming and generous and I know he is pathological and I can’t give them the expensive gifts and ultra stimulating activities.
How do you deal with the frustration that you are the only person who knows someone is a sociopath? I had to live 15 years with him to figure it out and go through four therapists until the last one nailed him as anti-social/schizoid personality disordered. Then I validated her “diagnosis” with Lovefraud. He has all the signs with a very high IQ and status of a medical professional to hide behind. Will anyone else ever figure it out? I don’t believe that what comes around goes around when it comes to a sociopath as intellectually clever as my ex-husband. I do have a few very perspective people who picked up on it. I don’t think my kids will ever see it and I think he will destroy me even post-divorce. Why is he so relentless? He has his freedom and his money. Why not leave me alone? Is it because I get one-third of his income in alimony?
After the divorce
Probably the most shocking thing about divorcing a sociopath is that even when it’s over, it’s not over. The attorneys have argued, the court has ruled, this is how it’s going to be—and it’s not. The sociopath doesn’t comply, twists things the way he or she wants them, uses children against the other parent, and no one seems to care.
This leaves the non-sociopathic partner—like Carla—angry with the sociopath, frustrated that he’s getting away with his lies and manipulation, and upset that he won’t do what he’s supposed to do, baffled that no one else sees the truth—all while still mourning the life she thought she had. Carla wants her ex to pay her what he’s supposed to and be a dad to their children. He’s not doing either, so she wants other people to know that behind his charming, successful veneer, he’s vile.
It’s a toxic brew of emotions. But the emotions will never affect the sociopath. They will only affect Carla, and possibly her children.
It seems to me that Carla needs to be able to separate what’s going on into four categories: financial considerations, the children, dealing with the ex and her emotional recovery.
Financial considerations
First of all, Carla needs to get her financial situation straightened out. If her ex is supposed to give her 26 accounts, she needs to get that enforced—soon, before the accounts are empty. I hope her attorneys put a time limit on when these accounts are supposed to be turned over, and specified exactly how much money she is supposed to receive. If not, she is in trouble.
Carla cannot allow her ex-husband to pay her bills. By letting him do this, she is allowing him to control her. He is deducting the money from her alimony? He is probably exaggerating the amount of the bills just to pay her less. Plus, he may decide to stop paying the bills, and she would never know it—until the cable service or electric is turned off. Carla must demand that she receive the full alimony, then get her bills in her own name.
Carla did not mention a house and mortgage. If the sociopath’s name is on the house or mortgage, that is a disaster waiting to happen. He may stop paying the mortgage and allow the house to slip into foreclosure. He wouldn’t care, but Carla would have no place to live.
The children
Carla complained that her ex won’t discuss the children with her and won’t offer any assistance as a father. He doesn’t call them during the week and only wants to play with them on his weekends. I’d recommend that Carla use this to her advantage.
Here is the bottom line: Sociopaths are terrible parents. At best, they view children as prized possession. At worst, they actively try to corrupt the children. Therefore, the less interaction a sociopath has with his or her children, the better.
Carla should actually be grateful that her ex is staying out of their children’s lives as much as he is. She should use her time with the children to shower them with love, nurture them and provide them with healthy guidance. None of that will happen when the boys are with their father. The kids will eventually sense that there is no real bond with the father. As time goes on, they may also witness him moving from girlfriend to girlfriend, and eventually start rolling their eyes at yet another one.
Carla needs to be their rock of stability. She also needs to stop badmouthing the father—even if he deserves it. This is important for two reasons. First is the emotional health of the children—they should not feel in the middle of her issues with the ex. Second, she does not want to give her ex the ammunition to come after her with a parental alienation lawsuit, in which she could lose custody of the boys.
Her best plan of action is the stay neutral about the father. One mother’s standard response whenever her children brought home news of the ex was a noncommittal, “That’s nice.”
Kids are smart. Sooner or later, they will realize that the sociopath cares only about himself.
Dealing with the ex
Carla asks, “Why is he so relentless? Why not leave me alone?”
Divorcing a sociopath is not like divorcing a relatively healthy person that you’ve just grown away from. In a normal divorce, mommy and daddy don’t want to be together anymore, but they can cooperate for the sake of the kids. This is not going to happen with a sociopath.
Sociopaths only want three things: Power, control and sex. Carla and the surgeon have divorced, but that doesn’t mean he has given up his desire for power and control.
Carla says her ex-husband is openly abusing her. She must eliminate his opportunities to do this and go No Contact with this man as much as possible. I don’t know if she is allowing him into her home, but she shouldn’t. The child exchange should be arranged to minimize interaction. Any communications regarding the children should be conducted via e-mail. Phone conversations give him opportunities to abuse her.
The key is for Carla to be strictly business. She must recognize that the sociopath will not play nice. He will do everything possible to avoid paying her. He will continue to manipulate her through the children. She must learn not to react when he baits her. She must learn to be calm and collected, yet make him toe the line on his court-ordered obligations.
Emotional recovery
All of this is pretty raw for Carla right now—the divorce was only three months ago. She is outraged. She is frustrated. Carla misses the status, money, vacations and cozy lifestyle of a surgeon’s wife. She is justifiably angry that he cheated and hid money, and probably still reeling from being devalued and discarded.
Realizing that she’s been in a relationship with a sociopath has probably rocked Carla to the core. Nothing was real. Everything was a lie. And plenty of people in the community still believe the lie. This is a massive shock, and it takes time to come to terms with the magnitude of the deception.
Recovery is a process, and there is a lot of information here on the Lovefraud blog that may help Carla:
- She must realize that the ex is a sociopath, and this is the way he lives his life. Nothing she did or didn’t do would make any difference.
- She must realize that she was targeted, probably because of her good qualities.
- She must allow herself to feel her anger, disappointment, grief and even hatred—and then let it all go.
This will take time, and will probably come in waves—a wave of emotion, followed by a wave of calm. Eventually the emotional periods will be shorter, the calm periods will be longer.
Carla is in for many years of aggravation with this man. She needs to get to a point of equanimity, where his antics no longer affect her. When she gets there, no matter what the guy does, Carla wins.
Nic,
Not sure if you have this web site but it gave me a lot of information and help me better to understand NPD’s. Not sure what type of disorder he suffer from but maybe it can give you some ideals whenever you need to connect with him concerning your child.
“So, yes, it’s possible to get along with narcissists, but it’s probably not worth bothering with. If family members are narcissists, you have my deep sympathy. If people you work with are narcissists, you will be wise to keep an eye on them, if just for your own protection, because they don’t think very well, no matter what their IQs, they feel that the rules (of anything) don’t apply to them, and they will always cut corners and cheat wherever they think they can get away with it, not to mention alienating co-workers, clients, and customers by their arrogance, lies, malice, and off-the-wall griping. Narcissists are threatened and enraged by trivial disagreements, mistakes, and misunderstandings, plus they have evil mouths and will say ANYTHING, so if you continue to live or work with narcissists, expect to have to clean up after them, expect to lose friends over them, expect big trouble sooner or later.”
http://dslweb.nwnexus.com/jmashmun/npd/howto.html
And Nic, you have my sympathy. Good luck!
Thanks James.
Your welcome also nic if you ever need to talk to someone I remember you saying you live in Chicago. I too live here. I think Donna sometimes give out our email address (if you want it) to other members. I don’t have a problem with you having it. I just know how hard it can get at times whenever we have children with them. I remember the first 4 months trying to deal with my ex s/p. The children and I went though h#LL with her and her crazy making. I just thank God my children were older and could see how dysfunctional she was acting which allow us to go totality NC. It’s now been 3 years for us.
I hope things get better! Stay strong! And I will keep you in my prays..
Nic,
I have been doing visitation for 14 months and it is sooo distressing. He comes late for p/u and drop-off like I should just be waiting patiently for him like I used to – NO MORE!!!!
Now he can’t take ouir son overnight on weekends because he has to close up his new BBQUE place at night.
He knew he has kids so why start a new business that has horrible hours?? GREED- CASH _ GREED!!!
So he took him Saturday and my daughter from 12 to 430.
On Sunday, Father’s Day he wanted to take them 1130 to 300.
I put my foot down because I did not want to spend another weekend day broken up around his schedule.
So he didn’t take the kids. Now I must include this was also the weekend he arbitrarily decided to hold back 2 weeks support and act like he has never paid me what he has for 14 months now. And the mortgage is due – the re-mortgage on this home that he took out and took the money and did God knows what with it -gone!!!!
I still have a hard time processing the contempt and disdain and hate he shows for me.I guess this is why he had all the affairs over the years.
Tonight he wanted to take my son up to his bar/bbque joint.
It is not in a good area, a 10 yr old does not belong sitting in a bar atmosphere and there is nothing for son to do but sit and watch daddy. So my son tells him he does not want to go up there BUT would he please come get him tonight when he is done?
Disney dad answer was ” If you are not coming with me, I will not rush back here to get you” How crazy is that?
SOOOO – DISney dad says to son “Thank your mother very much” – how nice.
And he proceeds to tell me I am a poor excuse for a mother – this from a father who left his son and daughter crying on the back stairs to stay home with them – but he left to be with his whores!!! How dare he criticize me!!!!
Nic,
It is gonna be a life sentence and I don’t think I am up to it either. He is a bully – cannot even let his sin have a voice and blames me cause the kids are starting to detect his manipulations. Hell, my 15 yr old told me years ago I should stop letting him manipulate him and to stop catering to him.
We need loys of support, Nic, and I hope you are right about what goes around comes around. But I don’t want to wait too long.
I just want this overwith and I NEVER thought I would feel that way – but this is torture.
Just keep strong boundaries – I felt terrible for the N/S jerk on Father’s Day without his kids – but who the hell is he to screw me and turn around and ask a favor?
Not happening – no more- he stands on his own.
Stay strong and confident in the way you handle yourself –
James: Thanks and I will take you up on that offer. I will be contacting Donna. Wow, 3 years NC. I wish that were me.
Newlife: Oh gosh, you are right a life sentence. We seem to be having the same issues with visitation. He is ALWAYS late picking her up. I said that I am going to start giving him a 15 minute window and if he doesn’t come within that time then he will have to reschedule. We are always waiting an hour or more for him to show up. I can believe your husband said you were a poor excuse for a mother because that is what they do. My husband has said some very, very mean things to me. I wish I could go through hypnosis to have everything he has said and done to me erased from my memory….lol.
I stopped posting for a while because it seemed like people weren’t being supportive and one person even said she would stop reading my posts (pretty drastic). But I thought the point of this community was to offer support. I wish my husband didn’t have to have visitation but he does and there is nothing I can do about it.
I thank you and James and the others that have responded in the past in a supportive manner. It has been really hard dealing with this and I am not going to always do things correctly but I am trying. I wouldn’t wish this on anyone.
nic..my divorce was final June 2006, so I guess that qualifies me for the 3 year mark. The politically correct term for “visitation” in Indiana is “parenting time”. My last minor daughter is now 13. Indiana courts have adopted an Indiana Supreme Court “guideline” which is pretty fair and specific. My decree incorporated this document and more specific agreements which were to guarantee my seeing my daughter almost every day. It was signed by ex and me and approved by the judge.
And from the first day my ex has basically ignored it. For the first year, I tried to get her to follow it, but then decided to accept her inability to consider anyone but herself as first priority. She will not adjust her schedule to pick up our daughter on time or be home when I return my daughter to her house at the agreed time.
I guess I could have spent the last three years in court, but I have been able to adjust. The net result has been that I end up with as much or more time with my daughter.
My weekly “late night” in the agreement is Wednesday. The ex “switched” it to Thursday about six months ago. My daughter calls it “Mom’s date night” with her married-to-someone-else co-worker boyfriend. My daughter has stayed with me until 9 pm up til 10:30 pm the last three out of four nights…and tonight is my “late night” until 8 pm when I’m to return her to mom’s. My daughter will probably get a call about 7:30 pm (80% probability) on the cell phone I provide my daughter…Mom won’t be home til 9-10 pm…I can take her back to an empty house or keep her til Mom gets home…
I sometimes don’t talk to the ex for months at a time.
I have made my amateur diagnosis for the ex-tox as “high functioning borderline personality disordered”. Works for me…not curable in any reasonable time frame…and I no longer take it personally.
We each make our own decisions, cost and benefits, on the boundaries we draw. Mine works for me …and I can just laugh most of the time at the drama over there on the Dark Side at Mom’s.
My adult daughters…life has it’s rewards…another story for another time.
I wish the best for you and your child….
Jim
Hi all:
I’ve been off-line a bit because I’ve been grappling with multiple things on multiple fronts. However, I saw a few questions to me that I wanted to respond to, however belatedly.
endthepain: You asked if it would be considered “parental alientaion” if you didn’t force your 3 year old to call his father on father’s day. From where I am standing, no. I think in your case you are going to need a really, really specific visitation agreement which discusses the issue of phone contact. If you consistently refused to let him speak to your son when he contacted him, it would give S grounds to raise that. The basic fact of the matter, at least how I see it, is your sone is 3. He probably doesn’t know how to dial his father’s number. That means the onus for making the phone calls falls on his father — that said, you are in your rights to set reasonable restrictions on when those calls are made. If the S calls at 10PM and your son is asleep, no you are not going to wake him up. And I have to say, as a self-protective matter, if your son told you he wanted to speak to his father, you are probably best -served if you dial the number and hand the call over to your son. Even if you only get voice-mail, at least it doesn’t look like you are cutting off contact. But, as far as your having to initiate calls on specific holidays like father’s day, I don’t see how your not making a call for your 3 year old, especially if he didn’t say he wants to call his father, can be used against you.
newlife08:
Sorry to hear about the stunts S is pulling on the support. A suggestion. I think you are going to have to really start documenting this. Get an old fashioned receipt book — you know the ones with carbon copies. If he gives you cash, you give him a receipt, signed by you both. If he comes up short, you indicate that he owes you a balance. If the balance starts to grow week by week, you note the growing balance.
I would also consider following up on shortfalls by email — especially if he’s shorting you. I would follow up each shortfall with daily reminders that you expect the shortfall to be made up by the next support payment. In addition. I would list all shortfalls and the cumulative balance. And just to make sure the S gets it, can you set your email so it pops with one of those messages that he’s opened the email?
I think I remember you going to court yesterday. How did it go?
Matt…so glad to see you back and hear you are doing well….
Thanks for the response…
Since my S filed papers to modify his support and he is still in AZ…I gave pertinenet info to the CSS department to back my case..In the meantime he didnt file correctly and notify myself or CSS so it was taken of Calendar and we will be going on the 23rd of July…..when he filed the papers originally he stated he was making no money..and his wife (whom he had gone back to) was paying for weverything…when in fact that was true their house was in shortsale and no mtg was being paid….so he is living free…collecting unemployment and in the meantime doing nothing…..NOW he has decided he is coming back to CA..after leaving here only 3 months ago..and he is splitting with his wife AGAIN..they ..or should I say…she is losing everything….After all of his lies….would he be able to go back to court AGAIN and state he is broke…homeless and jobless and have it be modified…despite the way he has been living off of everyone for the last 3 yrs….Im not sure what Im up against with his continual change of circumstance…and as I said I havent done the custody/vistation yet…as I was witing for this support hearing first AND because he keeps changing where he is going to be living ..he has been back and forth here to there more in the last 6 months since my son has been born and efforts to see him havent changed unless its when he wants
I have been co parenting with the ex S for over three years and things are changing regarding visitation due to my boundaries. I run around with a chicken with my head cut off bringing the kids to his house, picking them up. I have been so nice. No more. We are going through a power struggle now so he is lashing out at me. Eventually, he will mellow out. I try to only email and text message him, because he just makes me go crazy when I speak to him. He just lies all of the time. We don’t have a documented visitation schedule, but I will be asking the court for one in the future. He won’t be happy, because it will be fair for both, not just him. I have found that I was still enabling him, even after all of this time. It is hard to get out of the rut you are used to. His family still enables him and his mother thinks he is capable of changing. She is still in denial. I find that I need to keep away from those types of people, but they are not healthy for me.
In regards to child support–he was paying me directly, but after 2 bounced checks I went to the state child support enforcement and his employer would have to deduct child support from his paycheck, pay the state, and then pay me. He was furious, but I needed to protect myself and take the control out of his hands (I did warn him). Now that he is not working on the books (he resigned a very good job, due to his wrongdoings), he still has to pay the state, but he needs to write a check out himself and then the state disburses the funds to me. He is now 2 months behind, will be 3 months next week, but always stays ahead of the 4 month mark as he will have his license suspended. He skirts the law as much as possible; apparently, laws were not created for him. At least there is a middleman now, rather than him giving me the run around. I am done with his excuses.
I am not enabling him and will no longer take responsibility for his poor choices anymore. I am taking control of my life and have made it very clear to him that my world doesn’t revolve around him. I will no longer be manipulated by him through the guilt he makes me feel about the kids (due to his choices) and won’t feel guilty about making choices for myself.
So, when he says it always about me, I will say, “IT IS ABOUT TIME!”
-Ginger
Oh GINGER…I love you!! Kudos to you and good Job taking charge!!
Mine is the opposite as his wages were garnished until he voluntarily quit his job in oct of 08..they did intercept 2 moonths of support through tax returns but he is taking me back to modify as the economy and the world is against him!!
I do not have anything set up for visitation either but was nic ein letting him spend time getting to know his son..as he abandoned him when he was born…and the heartless asshole had the nerve to try and get “credit” off of his support for spending time with his son…UNBELIEVABLE!!!
I am getting stronger daily…and then fall back at times..and posts like yours reinforce what I know ..FEEL and BELIEVE to be true!! again..like you his family..Mother in particular believes he can change…so I have to ditance from her, as well…and I have because thry don’t..won’t and can’t change!!