Lovefraud recently received the following e-mail from a reader who we’ll call Carla:
Can you help me with co-parenting with a sociopath? Divorced three months ago, after a two-year fight for my rights. He is not complying as you know.
I am going crazy with the way he only shows his wonderful, smooth qualities to the children. I have three boys. I can’t stand sending them on weekends to a man who never calls them for two weeks and then lavishes them with charm and gifts. It makes me sick that I am struggling because he has not released even one of 26 accounts to me as decreed in the divorce settlement. He pays my bills and deducts them from the alimony. He follows the agreement under his own conditions and it confuses the attorneys. He won’t discuss the children with me or offer any assistance to them as a father. He is 100 percent focused on his new victim, his girlfriend, a new young, widow. Spending all the money he hid on her. But the kids have “buddy” to whisk them from one expensive activity to another while I am struggling to pay the bills.
I have greater anxiety now than when we were married. He openly emotionally abuses me. Before it was more covert and I got immune to the invalidation and blame. NOW I am discarded since I chose not to play by his rules of cheating, drugs, gambling, lying, withholding sex. He isn’t nice to me at all. Cruel. It was easier being married. He did all these things and he kept me blinded by being secretive and giving me a high-income surgeon’s wife lifestyle. I know the secrets now along with my attorney but he looks perfect in the community.
I miss the financial security and vacations. Now someone else shares those things with him and all I did was give him three beautiful children to brag about and add to his narcissism.
I say terrible things about him to the two older children, ages 6 and 13. I tell them how he is not following the agreement, lying and spending money on drugs and women.
Is so frustrating. I see what is real but no one else does. I am afraid my children are going to prefer him (and his girlfriend) because he is so charming and generous and I know he is pathological and I can’t give them the expensive gifts and ultra stimulating activities.
How do you deal with the frustration that you are the only person who knows someone is a sociopath? I had to live 15 years with him to figure it out and go through four therapists until the last one nailed him as anti-social/schizoid personality disordered. Then I validated her “diagnosis” with Lovefraud. He has all the signs with a very high IQ and status of a medical professional to hide behind. Will anyone else ever figure it out? I don’t believe that what comes around goes around when it comes to a sociopath as intellectually clever as my ex-husband. I do have a few very perspective people who picked up on it. I don’t think my kids will ever see it and I think he will destroy me even post-divorce. Why is he so relentless? He has his freedom and his money. Why not leave me alone? Is it because I get one-third of his income in alimony?
After the divorce
Probably the most shocking thing about divorcing a sociopath is that even when it’s over, it’s not over. The attorneys have argued, the court has ruled, this is how it’s going to be—and it’s not. The sociopath doesn’t comply, twists things the way he or she wants them, uses children against the other parent, and no one seems to care.
This leaves the non-sociopathic partner—like Carla—angry with the sociopath, frustrated that he’s getting away with his lies and manipulation, and upset that he won’t do what he’s supposed to do, baffled that no one else sees the truth—all while still mourning the life she thought she had. Carla wants her ex to pay her what he’s supposed to and be a dad to their children. He’s not doing either, so she wants other people to know that behind his charming, successful veneer, he’s vile.
It’s a toxic brew of emotions. But the emotions will never affect the sociopath. They will only affect Carla, and possibly her children.
It seems to me that Carla needs to be able to separate what’s going on into four categories: financial considerations, the children, dealing with the ex and her emotional recovery.
Financial considerations
First of all, Carla needs to get her financial situation straightened out. If her ex is supposed to give her 26 accounts, she needs to get that enforced—soon, before the accounts are empty. I hope her attorneys put a time limit on when these accounts are supposed to be turned over, and specified exactly how much money she is supposed to receive. If not, she is in trouble.
Carla cannot allow her ex-husband to pay her bills. By letting him do this, she is allowing him to control her. He is deducting the money from her alimony? He is probably exaggerating the amount of the bills just to pay her less. Plus, he may decide to stop paying the bills, and she would never know it—until the cable service or electric is turned off. Carla must demand that she receive the full alimony, then get her bills in her own name.
Carla did not mention a house and mortgage. If the sociopath’s name is on the house or mortgage, that is a disaster waiting to happen. He may stop paying the mortgage and allow the house to slip into foreclosure. He wouldn’t care, but Carla would have no place to live.
The children
Carla complained that her ex won’t discuss the children with her and won’t offer any assistance as a father. He doesn’t call them during the week and only wants to play with them on his weekends. I’d recommend that Carla use this to her advantage.
Here is the bottom line: Sociopaths are terrible parents. At best, they view children as prized possession. At worst, they actively try to corrupt the children. Therefore, the less interaction a sociopath has with his or her children, the better.
Carla should actually be grateful that her ex is staying out of their children’s lives as much as he is. She should use her time with the children to shower them with love, nurture them and provide them with healthy guidance. None of that will happen when the boys are with their father. The kids will eventually sense that there is no real bond with the father. As time goes on, they may also witness him moving from girlfriend to girlfriend, and eventually start rolling their eyes at yet another one.
Carla needs to be their rock of stability. She also needs to stop badmouthing the father—even if he deserves it. This is important for two reasons. First is the emotional health of the children—they should not feel in the middle of her issues with the ex. Second, she does not want to give her ex the ammunition to come after her with a parental alienation lawsuit, in which she could lose custody of the boys.
Her best plan of action is the stay neutral about the father. One mother’s standard response whenever her children brought home news of the ex was a noncommittal, “That’s nice.”
Kids are smart. Sooner or later, they will realize that the sociopath cares only about himself.
Dealing with the ex
Carla asks, “Why is he so relentless? Why not leave me alone?”
Divorcing a sociopath is not like divorcing a relatively healthy person that you’ve just grown away from. In a normal divorce, mommy and daddy don’t want to be together anymore, but they can cooperate for the sake of the kids. This is not going to happen with a sociopath.
Sociopaths only want three things: Power, control and sex. Carla and the surgeon have divorced, but that doesn’t mean he has given up his desire for power and control.
Carla says her ex-husband is openly abusing her. She must eliminate his opportunities to do this and go No Contact with this man as much as possible. I don’t know if she is allowing him into her home, but she shouldn’t. The child exchange should be arranged to minimize interaction. Any communications regarding the children should be conducted via e-mail. Phone conversations give him opportunities to abuse her.
The key is for Carla to be strictly business. She must recognize that the sociopath will not play nice. He will do everything possible to avoid paying her. He will continue to manipulate her through the children. She must learn not to react when he baits her. She must learn to be calm and collected, yet make him toe the line on his court-ordered obligations.
Emotional recovery
All of this is pretty raw for Carla right now—the divorce was only three months ago. She is outraged. She is frustrated. Carla misses the status, money, vacations and cozy lifestyle of a surgeon’s wife. She is justifiably angry that he cheated and hid money, and probably still reeling from being devalued and discarded.
Realizing that she’s been in a relationship with a sociopath has probably rocked Carla to the core. Nothing was real. Everything was a lie. And plenty of people in the community still believe the lie. This is a massive shock, and it takes time to come to terms with the magnitude of the deception.
Recovery is a process, and there is a lot of information here on the Lovefraud blog that may help Carla:
- She must realize that the ex is a sociopath, and this is the way he lives his life. Nothing she did or didn’t do would make any difference.
- She must realize that she was targeted, probably because of her good qualities.
- She must allow herself to feel her anger, disappointment, grief and even hatred—and then let it all go.
This will take time, and will probably come in waves—a wave of emotion, followed by a wave of calm. Eventually the emotional periods will be shorter, the calm periods will be longer.
Carla is in for many years of aggravation with this man. She needs to get to a point of equanimity, where his antics no longer affect her. When she gets there, no matter what the guy does, Carla wins.
Sorry, I’m so upset for being minimized that I didn’t complete this sentence, …”but his SS # was only one piece of information that a wife SHOULD know but refused to divulge to me over 46.5 years.
I was totally, completely, and securily under his strict control. I call the entire “marriage” trapped in a Lion’s Den.
I’m only glad that I surved it long enought TO ESCAPE — yet the “control” keeps coming — just in different, unexpected ways, like the PAYING MY DEBTS as if I am unable to handle my own finances!!
Did you have the experience with the s that whenever you exposed the S to a book or therapist – they used the information to hurt you? For example, my therapist talked about “the good marriage” vacationing as family together, going to dinner once a month together. My ex talked about doing that to everyone all through the 2 yr separation. Now won’t go near me and the kids bc he claims I am psycho and unreasonable. He used to tell me through the separation, without any heart in it, sometimes people just have to get divorced and then get remarried again. Then when I brought that up again, he told me that he doesn’t love me and only care about me and the kids.
Do all S try to get custody for control? Aren’t some not interested in the kids more than visitation? My friends all say Kurt won’t want the kids- it will cramp his lifestyle. Any thoughts on that? He seems ready to return them by Sun afternoon after 2 days and doesn’t have contact until the next visitation 2 weeks later. Meanwhile, he is womanizing, partying and withdrawn into his own little world. He also works a lot as a physician and does a lot of paperwork. He is very disordered, almost ADHD or ADD. His office is a disaster, his finances fragmented. His bills have always been just a bit late. WOn’t touch a computer. Everything is by hand.
I can threaten to turn him in for fraud on his taxes (which was proven through a deposition). But I think that there was something to protect him from tax or medical license risks. The attorney saids that all the drug use and list of drug dealers in the deposition and the tax fraud exposed in deposition cannot be held against him.Only used for marital law. Why can’t I copy the deposition and send it to the medical board? Because I can’t bite the hand the feeds me.
Matt, thank you for your advice — just a little late LOL
I already was able to put a security freeze on all three of my accounts and no one can access it without my permission. But I will know if anyone tries.
I don’t know anything about a “30 day” restriction. Or is that just if I should give my permission to someone — like a lender or something.
I am too ill to move anywhere else so I won’t be looking for a new abode — but there may be some other reason for someone to need to access it?
ANewLily:
The restriction is set by you — I think all 3 credit reporting days don’t allow you to lift the security freeze for more than 30 days. EVen then, they can only release the info to somebody you authorize — a lender (mortgage, car, credit card, personal loan), someone who is making you a job offer. Those would be the 2 big ones that I can think of. About the only downside to a security freeze is that it stops you from walking into a department store and opening an account on the spot.
I have a question and a concern. Everyone says not to trash talk the ex SP to the children. I really have tried not to do that over the past 4 years since we have been divorced. They have seen the pain and stress I have been under, but I have tried to keep my mouth shut about how horrible he is. But recently, my ex has been on a rampage again and is threatening to take me to court for more custody. Plus he is refusing to pay child support and now owes me $2100 plus $2000 for braces. We all know that the least amount of time the children spend with him, the better. So, when my children come back from his house filled with hate for me, what am I to do? When I try to take my son’s cell phone as punishment for back talking me and he yells in my face that his dad said never to let me take it and to call him if I try, what am I to do? I took it anyway and stormed off. My son raced after me saying he was sorry. I just told him that I didn’t like how his dad was trying to turn them against me. Then, my son asked me a slew of questions…horrible questions regarding things that their dad has been saying about me. I answered them honestly and told him who he could talk to that could back up my answers if he still did not believe me. During the conversation and questioning, the truth came out about my ex and his 3 affairs. I told my son (12) that I really tried to stay with him to hold the family together, but by the 3rd one (with whom he is now married), I just couldn’t anymore.
I don’t want to be guilty of alienation either, but I don’t want to be alienated. I’m just trying to defend myself. Where’s the line?
My son called his dad a “bastard” after that and wants to confront him. Who knows what will happen next….sure will be ugly and I warned my son that I will be made the bad guy if he does confront his dad.
I just do not want my kids coming to me one day saying that they want to live with him because he has manipulated them and turned them against me. I just want to get them raised in the most sane and healthy atmosphere that I can.
Matt, thank you for explaining further. I feel a lot better. I am housebound so I doubt if I will ever be “walking into a department store and opening an account on the spot.” And I only have one credit card and will not open another.
Samantha and Carla, how I feel for you in your struggles about not alienating your children by “bad mouthing” their father.
One of the four reasons I stayed with mine so long was that I KNEW that he would try to take them from me (via lies) and I wanted to give them as “normal” a family I was able for as long as I could.
Almost one of the first pieces of advice I received after I had moved 1800 miles away and needed to explain to our married, adult children why I left was to tell them the truth, “Their father tried to kill me.”
There were no support groups back then (that I knew of) so I didn’t know this was bad advice when dealing with a disordered persons. I didn’t yet know I had been dealing with a narcissist/sociopath or I might have figured out that he would lie and say to them, “She is just making it up. She’s crazy. I never laid a hand on her.”
Poor kids. They didn’t know who to believe — and I don’t blame them. Yet, his lies did sever relationships (even long distance) with all of them. My grief lasted 5 long years before I could recover and the youngest daughter finally contacted me about a year ago.
Even so, she had had the experience of unexpectedly meeting her father and a girlfriend come down the hotel steps at 6:00 a.m. the morning she and her husband came down for breakfast in a hotel 85 miles from home. I had never divulged the infidelities (of which I only had his admission 6 weeks before I filed for divorce.)
At least her eyes were opened to the “nature” of her father’s morality. Whether she ever told her siblings or not I do not know.
Anyway, I believe the advice to tell the truth when it is appropriate is good. The advice to keep everything as smooth as possible on a daily basis is good, too. I think in deciding what and when to say it is different when dealing with an N/S/P than in a “normal” breakup.
I wish I could be of more help to you two (and others in the same situation) but my children were “grown-ups” when I left and I had no idea they would not be able to handle the truth.
Yet, I tried to contract a mediator (lawyer) to help heal the painful and harmful rift but only got his stern comment, “You must accept that you will not get your children back until he either dies or moves away.”
That I did get one “back” is comfort for now.
I have read (“Divorce Poison”) that when the child(ren) have been alienated to the point that they completely side with the lying/alienating parent, when they begin to hate you based upon lies and manipulation, that the last resort (and reasonable at that point) to get you child back is tell them the truth about the lying SOB. I did this, told my child about his mom’s affairs, why we were divorced, the truth about why she moved away, her manipulation and brainwashing of him, her lies about my new wife and other lies that mom had told him. He didn’t respond well initially, in disbelief. But over time, I believe he recalls that discussion/blowout, he identifies what mom is doing to him and that I was telling the truth, and has had a change of attitude as a result. What I told him DID NOT serve as alienation towards his mother, he still loves her and loves to be with her. However, he is much nicer and respectful towards me and my new wife.
FYI, google the terms “spousification” and “enmeshment”. Any of your ex’s may be involved in these types of despicable actions in order to gain loyalty.
Carla, you asked, “Did you have the experience with the s that whenever you exposed the S to a book or therapist – they used the information to hurt you?”
Absolutely I had this experience, or rather experienceS, before I got wiser (caught on to what was happening) and stopped.
I think other posters have experienced this using info to twist around to their gain — which is to hurt us.
Addionally, in the year before he knocked me unconsious and I escaped, my EX agreed to marital counseling for three sessions with two different therapists. Oh, my, did he sound convincing and startled me out of any inner calmness I was able to muster. NEVER had he verbalized any of it. All of it was “news” to me and definitely not the truth. Trying to talk (CALMLY) to him about it after the sessions was met with the silent treatment.
Except sometimes he would bring up (much later) what I had told the therapist/s as twisted accusations. Nothing close to my meaning, at all.
Since escaping, I have told many times not to partake in couples’ therapy because it only gives them more ammunition to use against you — twisted, of course, and making doubt ourselves! Crazy-making, for sure.
Bob, I haven’t read “Divorce Poison” but I do understand what you are saying — tell the truth. Do you have custody of your children?
I told mine the truth (as my counselor told me to do) and all it got for me (perhaps he was so geographically near to them and I was so far) was TRUE and complete alienation. All went No Contact on ME
I want so much to discuss what happened to me with my adult children — but I start and then stop. Most of the other posters have had different experiences — and with much younger children.
I’m going to stick my neck out and tell you all that I DID also tell them that their father was most probably a narcissist (finding this out as a diagnosis by two counselors and a social worker pastor) and that they should study the research on this disorder (They were ages 46, 44, 38 and 35.)
They TOLD their father this information and lo and behold all of a sudden “I” was the narcissist (according to HIM) and was “dangerous.”
The powerlessness I once felt is finally gone but I do wish I could live over those days after I left and TELL THEM NOTHING except that I loved and missed them!!!!!!
I am feeling very vulnerable right now. I’ve kept in my pain about my adult children shunning me due to their father’s lies. I thought the pain had finally lessened enough (I NEVER regretted leavint their father to save my life) so I could talk about it here.
I think I have made a mistake. No one here (except OxDrover) even knows me yet. And I don’t know if she knows I’ve registered!)
It might sound like defending myself but after I learned that EM had projected HIS narcissism onto me, I insisted that I be evaluated — went through all the interviews and tests. Was diagnosed as “normal as normal gets.” LOL Those results calmed any fears I had that I might be fooling myself and during the past 4 years or so of reading and researching about the disorder, I have been gratified to discover that I was NOT ALONE in dealing with a predator/sociopath. Man, was he good! Fooled everybody, even me, for years and years!
So much to say — but that’s all I can manage for now. I still feel SO ALONE in being alienated from my beautiful, bright, accomplished children!
Don’t get me wrong, though. I may be lonely but God is with me every step of the way. And I love LIVING alone, just wish I weren’t housebound by a broken hip!