Lovefraud recently received the following e-mail from a reader who we’ll call Carla:
Can you help me with co-parenting with a sociopath? Divorced three months ago, after a two-year fight for my rights. He is not complying as you know.
I am going crazy with the way he only shows his wonderful, smooth qualities to the children. I have three boys. I can’t stand sending them on weekends to a man who never calls them for two weeks and then lavishes them with charm and gifts. It makes me sick that I am struggling because he has not released even one of 26 accounts to me as decreed in the divorce settlement. He pays my bills and deducts them from the alimony. He follows the agreement under his own conditions and it confuses the attorneys. He won’t discuss the children with me or offer any assistance to them as a father. He is 100 percent focused on his new victim, his girlfriend, a new young, widow. Spending all the money he hid on her. But the kids have “buddy” to whisk them from one expensive activity to another while I am struggling to pay the bills.
I have greater anxiety now than when we were married. He openly emotionally abuses me. Before it was more covert and I got immune to the invalidation and blame. NOW I am discarded since I chose not to play by his rules of cheating, drugs, gambling, lying, withholding sex. He isn’t nice to me at all. Cruel. It was easier being married. He did all these things and he kept me blinded by being secretive and giving me a high-income surgeon’s wife lifestyle. I know the secrets now along with my attorney but he looks perfect in the community.
I miss the financial security and vacations. Now someone else shares those things with him and all I did was give him three beautiful children to brag about and add to his narcissism.
I say terrible things about him to the two older children, ages 6 and 13. I tell them how he is not following the agreement, lying and spending money on drugs and women.
Is so frustrating. I see what is real but no one else does. I am afraid my children are going to prefer him (and his girlfriend) because he is so charming and generous and I know he is pathological and I can’t give them the expensive gifts and ultra stimulating activities.
How do you deal with the frustration that you are the only person who knows someone is a sociopath? I had to live 15 years with him to figure it out and go through four therapists until the last one nailed him as anti-social/schizoid personality disordered. Then I validated her “diagnosis” with Lovefraud. He has all the signs with a very high IQ and status of a medical professional to hide behind. Will anyone else ever figure it out? I don’t believe that what comes around goes around when it comes to a sociopath as intellectually clever as my ex-husband. I do have a few very perspective people who picked up on it. I don’t think my kids will ever see it and I think he will destroy me even post-divorce. Why is he so relentless? He has his freedom and his money. Why not leave me alone? Is it because I get one-third of his income in alimony?
After the divorce
Probably the most shocking thing about divorcing a sociopath is that even when it’s over, it’s not over. The attorneys have argued, the court has ruled, this is how it’s going to be—and it’s not. The sociopath doesn’t comply, twists things the way he or she wants them, uses children against the other parent, and no one seems to care.
This leaves the non-sociopathic partner—like Carla—angry with the sociopath, frustrated that he’s getting away with his lies and manipulation, and upset that he won’t do what he’s supposed to do, baffled that no one else sees the truth—all while still mourning the life she thought she had. Carla wants her ex to pay her what he’s supposed to and be a dad to their children. He’s not doing either, so she wants other people to know that behind his charming, successful veneer, he’s vile.
It’s a toxic brew of emotions. But the emotions will never affect the sociopath. They will only affect Carla, and possibly her children.
It seems to me that Carla needs to be able to separate what’s going on into four categories: financial considerations, the children, dealing with the ex and her emotional recovery.
Financial considerations
First of all, Carla needs to get her financial situation straightened out. If her ex is supposed to give her 26 accounts, she needs to get that enforced—soon, before the accounts are empty. I hope her attorneys put a time limit on when these accounts are supposed to be turned over, and specified exactly how much money she is supposed to receive. If not, she is in trouble.
Carla cannot allow her ex-husband to pay her bills. By letting him do this, she is allowing him to control her. He is deducting the money from her alimony? He is probably exaggerating the amount of the bills just to pay her less. Plus, he may decide to stop paying the bills, and she would never know it—until the cable service or electric is turned off. Carla must demand that she receive the full alimony, then get her bills in her own name.
Carla did not mention a house and mortgage. If the sociopath’s name is on the house or mortgage, that is a disaster waiting to happen. He may stop paying the mortgage and allow the house to slip into foreclosure. He wouldn’t care, but Carla would have no place to live.
The children
Carla complained that her ex won’t discuss the children with her and won’t offer any assistance as a father. He doesn’t call them during the week and only wants to play with them on his weekends. I’d recommend that Carla use this to her advantage.
Here is the bottom line: Sociopaths are terrible parents. At best, they view children as prized possession. At worst, they actively try to corrupt the children. Therefore, the less interaction a sociopath has with his or her children, the better.
Carla should actually be grateful that her ex is staying out of their children’s lives as much as he is. She should use her time with the children to shower them with love, nurture them and provide them with healthy guidance. None of that will happen when the boys are with their father. The kids will eventually sense that there is no real bond with the father. As time goes on, they may also witness him moving from girlfriend to girlfriend, and eventually start rolling their eyes at yet another one.
Carla needs to be their rock of stability. She also needs to stop badmouthing the father—even if he deserves it. This is important for two reasons. First is the emotional health of the children—they should not feel in the middle of her issues with the ex. Second, she does not want to give her ex the ammunition to come after her with a parental alienation lawsuit, in which she could lose custody of the boys.
Her best plan of action is the stay neutral about the father. One mother’s standard response whenever her children brought home news of the ex was a noncommittal, “That’s nice.”
Kids are smart. Sooner or later, they will realize that the sociopath cares only about himself.
Dealing with the ex
Carla asks, “Why is he so relentless? Why not leave me alone?”
Divorcing a sociopath is not like divorcing a relatively healthy person that you’ve just grown away from. In a normal divorce, mommy and daddy don’t want to be together anymore, but they can cooperate for the sake of the kids. This is not going to happen with a sociopath.
Sociopaths only want three things: Power, control and sex. Carla and the surgeon have divorced, but that doesn’t mean he has given up his desire for power and control.
Carla says her ex-husband is openly abusing her. She must eliminate his opportunities to do this and go No Contact with this man as much as possible. I don’t know if she is allowing him into her home, but she shouldn’t. The child exchange should be arranged to minimize interaction. Any communications regarding the children should be conducted via e-mail. Phone conversations give him opportunities to abuse her.
The key is for Carla to be strictly business. She must recognize that the sociopath will not play nice. He will do everything possible to avoid paying her. He will continue to manipulate her through the children. She must learn not to react when he baits her. She must learn to be calm and collected, yet make him toe the line on his court-ordered obligations.
Emotional recovery
All of this is pretty raw for Carla right now—the divorce was only three months ago. She is outraged. She is frustrated. Carla misses the status, money, vacations and cozy lifestyle of a surgeon’s wife. She is justifiably angry that he cheated and hid money, and probably still reeling from being devalued and discarded.
Realizing that she’s been in a relationship with a sociopath has probably rocked Carla to the core. Nothing was real. Everything was a lie. And plenty of people in the community still believe the lie. This is a massive shock, and it takes time to come to terms with the magnitude of the deception.
Recovery is a process, and there is a lot of information here on the Lovefraud blog that may help Carla:
- She must realize that the ex is a sociopath, and this is the way he lives his life. Nothing she did or didn’t do would make any difference.
- She must realize that she was targeted, probably because of her good qualities.
- She must allow herself to feel her anger, disappointment, grief and even hatred—and then let it all go.
This will take time, and will probably come in waves—a wave of emotion, followed by a wave of calm. Eventually the emotional periods will be shorter, the calm periods will be longer.
Carla is in for many years of aggravation with this man. She needs to get to a point of equanimity, where his antics no longer affect her. When she gets there, no matter what the guy does, Carla wins.
endthepain: I find myself sometimes wishing for the illusion again, and I cry too, hope that stops someday. I am glad you are not doing ANYTHING for him on Father’s Day (loved the “HELL NO!!!”). I don’t understand why he slanders you to everyone, I’m in a fog over here, just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you and I’m out here in cyber space!
Thanks anewlily. I feel proud of myself too. It is getting easier to respond to him.
This topic is exactly what I needed. I haven’t read through all of the comments, but did use some of the tips that some of you posted. I just had Family Court with my ex (this is the first time going to court with him, ever), who is trying to have the primary residence of the kids changed to him, because I want to move about 30 miles from him. I went with my attorney and he said he did not retain one and wasn’t sure if he was going to. I tell ya, he acted like a helpless puppy, almost martyr like (this is part of his manipulation). I went into court looking confident and secure, but I was afraid as hell! I have worked out for the last few days to get rid of this stress so I could sleep and feel good for court. My attorney was all over everything. My ex asked for a law guardian to be appointed and my attorney said that we weren’t there yet and still needed to do the “threshold test.” Nope, he didn’t get that. She said he wanted a law guardian appointed so he can tell my oldest what to say. Then my ex asked if something could be put into place to force me to take my house off the market. (He’s trying to control me) The court told him that he was not his legal advisor and he would have to contact an attorney for advice. Nope, he didn’t get that either. I am not sure if he will pay for an attorney. He is very materialistic, so paying for services is not his thing.
We do have to go back in a month, but I think I let him know that I mean business. I have all the risk in this, but I also have all of the control. Perhaps, he underestimated me, but I am not messing around, especially about my kids. He picked the wrong Mamma!
Ginger, I want to tell you that I think you did great in court (today?) You didn’t let fear deter you from appearing confident and secure! Good job!
I understood your asides, like “this is part of his manipulation” and “He’s trying to control me” and I hope you are proud of yourself to be able to recognize these!
Is a “law guardian” and “Guardian ad Litem” the same thing? If so, try to have your lawyer head this off at the pass! Mine tried to get our oldest ADULT daughter (brainwashed, of course) assigned as my Guardian ad Litem but it had applied for it “out of the blue.” I was able to get 14 notarized people who knew me to sign that I was totally competent and able to handle my own affairs. The judge dismissed it as “frivolous,” the strongest language he was allowed to use, I guess. But, the whole ordeal only added to my attempts to recover from having him try to murder me (in private, of course.)
That was when I knew beyond a doubt he was USING our children as his proxies. (Only one of the four has “gotten” it, so far.)
What age are your children? If they are under 18, I highly applaud you for getting them as far away (even 30 miles) from him as possible. Just like we needed to get some “space” before we could analyze correctly what we had been living, I think children (of any age) need the same space.
Mine all are married but live only 5 miles from him — and about 5 miles from each other. I live 1800 miles away — where I’m SAFE!
Don’t forget to trust your instincts during this next month of preparing what comes next. Deep breathing sessions help, too.
I also suggest you head off at the pass any of his attempts to block you from taking your house off the market. My experience with that wrinkle is too complicated to relate here.
Blessings, Lily
Warning this is long.
On the issue about alienating parent and child(ren). I remember before learning about personality disorders how I tried to keep an open communication between me my two children and their mother in the beginning. I explained to them how it was important to try and work with their mother and why I thought it was best to talk with her whenever she tried to call them. In short I made them talk with her on the phone “at first”. (*Please remember this all happen pre-acknowledgment-understanding about PDs.* Ages of children approximately were 14/12)
Each time they talked with her on the phone I saw a hurt in them, which in turn hurt me. Soon after that I chanced my mind and told them if they wanted to talk with her then please do so and even went as far as putting her number on their cells phone if they wanted it. Both say they didn’t want too. (Note to reader ex didn’t have their cell numbers)
I also notice how both whenever they did speak with her on the phone sounded drained monotonous and at times confused. After a short time either simply refused to speak with her or made up lame excuses not too. My ex s/p also pick up on this and once asked me while crying (the only time I remember her crying) why our children didn’t want to talk with her. At the time I just told her maybe they just needed time and how I needed time and went to tell her (almost in tears) HELL WE ALL NEEDED TIME!
I also remember how my children when they did speak with (the few times they did) her told her over and over again about not wishing to call her and how they didn’t want to “visit her”. What *confused me was why she was once again trying to get them into this other life so quick without any consideration of their feeling?* How never once did she attempted to validate what they were saying or their wishes. Repeat, not once.
My question here is who alienated whom? Also to add I did tell the children the truth about what was happening/why she left. The reader needs to take into consideration that in the beginning she lied to my children and I stating she was living with her parent when in fact she left the state of Illinois and moved to Wisconsin. http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2008/09/15/letters-to-lovefraud-the-biggest-lie/
I only learned this about their mother that she left the state by her calling my cell on a Wisconsin phone listing which happen to belong to her now new bf who I knew by name. Because my computer was down due to not having a landline at the time I used my computer at work using http://anywho.com/rl.html reverse phone listing.
I will never forget that day!
I did (a mistake?) tell both of my children about this as well as my sister (who refused to believe it for the longest time).
I soon realized that my attempts to keep some kind of connection between my ex my children and me open was draining from my hands like sand does between our fingers.
Again my question is who alienated whom?
A) Did I consciously or unconsciously alienated my children from their mother? (I believe this is a good possibility and still struggle with this even today)
B) Did my children for whatever reason alienated her from themselves? (I believe to stop the hurt they were feeling might have done so)
C) Did she alienate herself in a way from her own children? (I believe this also was a very important factor)
Or was it a combination of A B and C?
Please any insight would be helpful and much appreciated.
Ginger
LOL, Ben Franklin once wrote that whenever a person goes to court representing himself as his own attorney that in fact he has a fool for a client.
Thanks for the positive words! A law guardian is a person that represents the kids’ interests. He/She will interview the kids and each of the parents and evaluate circumstances. My ex has convinced my son (12) that living with him would be better–so he is brainwashed. My youngest is 6 but he may be too little yet, but he is being primed for sure. My ex will just tell the kids what to say to the LG, which is they want to live with Dad. Right now, one is not assigned.
I don’t sway the kids either way, but I am starting to tell the kids the truth about some things–Mom, why don’t you have the money to do this/to buy that?–Well, your father is four months delinquent in supporting you (I would put it in kid terms), Mom, why do I have to miss this or that?–Well, your father chooses not to bring you. I am not going to take the responsibility for my ex’s shortfalls. I have been out of guilt for my kids. I have been enabling him for so long–the rut is very hard to get out of! My ex knows my weakness is the kids and that is how he gets me to do what he doesn’t want to–guilt–it is pretty powerful!
Two people told me this–we need to act like ducks–very calm and graceful on the outside, but under the water their feet are paddling like crazy. Never let them see you sweat. Round 1-ME; Round 2-TBA. I can never drop my guard with him and I am waiting for him to pounce–I cannot underestimate him. The interesting thing is, is that I need to put the facade up–just like he does everyday. I am not the S though and I am a real person, through and through.
Lily–It seems to me you did what YOU had to do for yourself and your mental health. I hope your adult children do come around. Many people have told me that they eventually do. In my case, I hope my kids do realize what type of father they have sooner than later. However, you cannot force this (I read this on this blog).
One thing I do try to live by–
Face fear head on–it won’t be fear anymore…
James–I liked your Ben Franklin quote–how true, how true…
Were you the person that posted the Divorce Poison, regarding alienation of your kids? I am going to check the book out. Are you and your kids in counseling? These honeys don’t have a true mom to rely on or love. I am sorry–my heart breaks for you and your kids.
My heart does out to everyone on here who has danced with the devil. It is a very painful place to be, but we are healing ourselves, finally.
-Ginger
Ginger,
“James”“I liked your Ben Franklin quote”“how true, how true”
Were you the person that posted the Divorce Poison, regarding alienation of your kids? I am going to check the book out. Are you and your kids in counseling? These honeys don’t have a true mom to rely on or love. I am sorry”“my heart breaks for you and your kids.”
Ditto, that quote bring a smile to my face each time I quote it to myself.
Yes, I am the one. I still struggle with this and hope I did all I could to try to keep a open avenue between these two and her but again “At first”. but each time I tried she would up the the stakes do something that would hurt either the children or me.
I would ask her many times “don’t you think this will damage your relationship with the kids?” But all I got were projections or lies like “you are trying to keep the kids from talking with me. Not true! And whenever I brought this statement up she would then deny even saying it…
Crazy making!!! I just couldn’t win. One thing is again this happen pre-enlightenment/acknowledgment of a PD. At the time I didn’t know what a PD was so it drove me crazy trying to understand why she did what she did.. CRAZY MAKING!!!
Ginger, thank you for the definition of a law guardian. I’m not sure it is totally different from a Guardian ad Litem (in my home state) but what my EM (Evil Monster) had done was to appoint OUR DAUGHTER as MY CARETAKER OF ALL MY AFFAIRS. That terrible blow was Nov of ‘O2 and I still don’t know if our children saw all of the notarized statements sent to the judge. I highly suspect they don’t.
Anyway, I gave myself a good (and needed) laugh as I re-read my post that contained “”but it had applied for it “out of the blue.”” It should have read “HE had applied…” not “IT had applied…”
Some other poster has been calling her bad man an “IT” so my typo was probably very fitting! Right? LOL.
James, I will respond later to your “long post,” okay? I do have comments that might be helpful. Just wanted you to know I did read it and empathized with your questions.
Thanks ANewLily, for more information you might want to see my blog title under Personal Journal, anyway thanks again for the help.
http://james-personalitydisorder.blogspot.com/