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By | April 13, 2011 359 Comments

Debating empathy and evil

A Cambridge professor, Simon Baron-Cohen, has written Zero Degrees of Empathy: A new theory of human cruelty. In this review, the author explains the professor’s ideas.

Read Why a lack of empathy is the root of all evil, on Independent.co.uk.

Link supplied by a Lovefraud reader.


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Dani S

Interesting article but empathy starved seems a little bit light weight fodder from my experience.

Ox Drover

I’d like to read the book. I think there is a spiritual context to all humans….good vs. evil….if you will.

Humans are also “herd” animals and I think we are programmed to be suspicious of “outsiders” (there’s been some recent experiments that were interesting with monkeys showing the anxiety etc and behaviors when faced with other monkeys they didn’t know) and in an evolutionary aspect, it is a good idea to NOT trust someone you don’t know well….but the “us versus them” thinking of large political groups, like the Nazis convincing the Germans that the Jews were responsible for all the evils of their economy etc. so therefore it was OK to take their property and to “dispose” of them as undesirables….China and Stalin also “dehumanized” large segments of the population politically and then disposed of them…. and all the other genocides that are going on or have gone on, and the 9/11 incident with the “religious wars” that are going on today–add in the political/power/money motives for the people who “lead” these EVIL actions on the GLOBAL scale or the INDIVIDUAL scale and you have the “history of the earth” as it has always been and I am assuming always will be.

I actually would like to read this book and see about his 6 levels of empathy, and his zero + and zero – are concepts that are interesting as well.

The article does underscore though, what I think is important, With or without empathy, or how much or how little, we still have CHOICES and with choices come responsibility, and with responsibility comes accountability.

Thanks for sharing this article, Donna. Very thought provoking and interesting information on our healing journey which I believe is as much a spiritual journey as an emotional and mental one.

skylar

It does sound like a good book, with lots of interesting information. What doesn’t seem to be addressed though, is the DESIRE to harm others. Lack of empathy would seem to just mean the inability to see others as human beings, but why would that initiate a DESIRE to harm others, the way sociopaths do?

Sarah999

There is a BIG Difference between EMPATHY and COMPASSION.
Some Psychopaths . . have tons of EMPATHY.
The SADISTIC psychopaths, KNOW VERY WELL what their victim is feeling, and use it to maximally hurt their victim!
So yes, Psychopaths can have EMPATHY, and the successfully sadistic psychopaths have it in spades!
What Psychopaths are lacking is COMPASSION. They KNOW they hurt, abused, degraded, tortured etc. their victim..and either they:
1) DON’T CARE
or
2) ARE HAPPY ABOUT IT (in the case of sadists)

skylar

Thanks Donna, for posting it. It’s very interesting.
So lack of empathy is one thing, need for control/dominance is another thing. But even that doesn’t explain the need to see PAIN. They go out of their way to maximize pain. This SADISM, is what is hard to understand.

My own spath told me that he liked to make people really happy so that when they fall, they will have further to go and their pain will feel that much worse.

He loved to go to casinos to watch people lose large amounts of money and he imagined that they would go out and kill themselves in despair. He loved despair.

What’s with that? Is it addiction to drama? I know there is a huge envy connection, but still hard to grasp this hunger for other peoples’ pain.

Ox Drover

Donna I agree with Liane’s ideas on this, but in order (I think) to want that OUT OF CONTROL DOMINANCE if you had any ” “effective” level of EMPATHY for the party you were controlling or trying to, or punishing because it wouldn’t be controlled, then you could not HURT IT the way you would do so.

You couldn’t dehumanize it/them to the extent of genocide for example…or murder…or torture.

So it is a case maybe of which came first, the chicken or the egg, the lack of empathy for the victim, or the NEED TO CONTROL AND DOMINATE? I think they are so close to hand in hand that it is very difficult to say does one lead to the other, or are they the flip sides of the SAME COIN?

When I train an animal I want to dominate it, to control it, but because I have empathy for that animal as a living being, I would never use a training method that would cause it injury or pain.

I have debated with our friend BloggerT even about “dehumanizing” the psychopaths….and failing to see that though they are SERIOUSLY FLAWED and dangerous, they ARE human…and sometimes that is difficult to hold on to that concept. It is difficult to have empathy for those that have hurt us, but if we lose our own empathy where does that leave us. If we justify vengeful or hateful or mean behavior in ourselves because the person we did it to was a “psychopath” are we any better than those who justify their behavior toward others by reason of “Jews are bad” or “black is bad” or “white is bad?”

Not that I mean we should “embrace” a psychopath or someone high in psychopathic traits or pity them to the point that we allow their behavior to harm others, they have the ABILITY if not the willingness to control their behavior so they must be held accountable for that behavior and the consequences of that behavior. We must protect ourselves from those people who lack empathy…the same way we would protect ourselves from someone who carried a lethal and contagious disease. Not because that person with the disease isn’t “human” but because the consequences to ourselves would be detrimental to associate closely with them and “catch” the disease.

Even if the person with the “deadly disease” was someone we loved, we could not associate with them without risking our very survival. The same with the psychopath….we can’t associate with them safely. Ones who are a danger to others should, like “Typhoid Mary,” be confined for the good of the public. Mary knew she was contagious but she kept on taking jobs in food service and wouldn’t stop infecting others as a CARRIER of typhoid which is/was a deadly disease…so she was eventually locked up for the public good. Psychopaths in some cases should be locked up for the public good as well when they commit violent and harmful and illegal acts….but in no case is it safe to associate with them intimately….but I think we can’t “dehumanize” them either without risk to our own spiritual and emotional selves. It is a fine line to walk that “tight rope” from having empathy for ANY human who is so lacking in the spiritual and emotional aspects that make us “more human” than animal, but at the same time…we cannot allow that dangerous person to harm us. To root out the bitterness we naturally and normally feel toward someone who has harmed us with their desire to control or destroy us.

I think that Jesus’ command to “pray for those that despitefully use you” wasn’t so much directed at helping the abuser as helping the abused to root out the deep bitterness that is a normal aspect of being abused, but in the end is more harmful to us spiritually and emotionally and “rents out space” for those people in our heads and our hearts.

Accepting that these people are TOXIC to us, dangerous to us, and that we must stay away from them (no contact) as much as possible, as well as not becoming and staying bitter and vengeful ourselves, while accepting that these people who behave this way are flawed, but human, and ARE RESPONSIBLE and ACCOUNTABLE for their actions. We are NOT responsible for how they treated us in the past, we are however responsible for ALLOWING them to treat us badly in the present or the future.

Thank you Donna for recognizing that this healing journey post-psychopath is not only a mental and physical healing, but a spiritual one as well. God bless you and your efforts to help others in their healing.

Ox Drover

Sarah, we posted over each other….I like your concepts of the empathy vs compassion….and I see that it in a way depends on how you “define” empathy…is it just understanding how the other feels or is it CARING how the other feels.

In some cases, I think the psychopaths can “read” the feelings of others, but they can’t actually ‘feel” it the way others do, or take those feelings and internalize them. Is that how we learn compassion, is feeling those feelings and then internalizing them?

I guess some of these questions are what philosophers and theologians have asked for centuries.

kim frederick

This is an interesting thread.
never saw my military xhub as out to hurt me. I never thought it was deliberate. I never thought he was particularly calculating, and I never felt targeted. I do believe he was an absolute narcissist and he hurt me as a consequence of his total self-centeredness, and lack of empathy.
I beieve he was trying to find love, and thought he had in me.
I think, later, he realized that intimacy and marriage weren’t all they were cracked up to be, and because of his own issues, he became contemptious, and distant, reoccupied and all the rest of it.

Likewise the spath, in so far as I don’t think he has any awareness that he targets victims.

I think he knows he wants to find a nice woman with a house and a car and fall in love.

Of course, it’s spathological, and it causes pain, but I don’t think causing pain is his goal, just an inevitable outcome of his
entitlement and irresponsibility.

The exceptin to this is his mind games. Those ARE DELIBERATE and planed out meticuliously. However, I think he has very little self-awareness about anything he does.

I think that they were both driven by disorder, but the underlying human motivations were a desire to be loved.

I don’t think that a desire to cause pain is a necissary componant of spathology. I don’t think all spaths desire to cause pain….they just do.
That’s just my opinion, at this time.

kim frederick

Yeah, the dehumanizing thing bothers me , too. I undersand the reasons why it comforts us to do it, but I think it’s spiritually dangerous. Remember dehumanization was the first step in the process of the annialation of the jews during the holocaust. All Hitler hd to do was promote all kinds of propaganda that depicted jews as less than human, then take it one step furthar and call them vermin, and the German people fell right in line.
There is a potential for evil in everybody, and until eople recognize the evil in themselves there will always be scape-goats.

Now, I’m ot excusing the psychopaths, but I don’t want to be guilty of the same things I accuse them of: dominance needs that hurt others, lack of empathy, objectification. My spiritual health depends on my ability to have empathy.

I seek to understand the disorder. Iwish there was a definitive answer to what causes it so we cold have a fail safe way of preventing it.

Recovering

Are spaths aware that they are sick? Is there any type of scientific reseach explaining humans feeling of abnormailty or just not feeling ‘right’, if you will. My P ex would tell me he knew he had ADD, was this an excuse to compensate for his REAL sickness or was he just in denial with himself? I know in my experience, they do know right from wrong. They just dont care. My ex’s friend told me he would joke about the lies he told me and laugh about the abuse with no remorse. However, he knew it was not right.

lesson learned

Hmmmm. “Out of control Dominance motivation. To harm others.

I think mine was a sadist, as well as a psychopath. I could NOT and still have a hard time, wrapping my mind around the idea that someone would WANT to cause you PAIN. Sky, this is where I struggle too. You were “fortunate” to hear your spath say that and I”ve heard you mention it here before about raising someone up, just to watch them fall. I often felt that that is EXACTLY what mine did. If I told him that a behavior bothered me it didn’t STOP it escalated and he would STAND THERE CALMLY while I reacted to his provocation. THAT I DO NOT understand! HOw could someone appear to be so “nice’ at one time and then turn it around and DESTROY you with it? No guilt nor remorse either. I use to think his state of calm was self confidence, it wasn’t, it was evil. It was arrogant and predatory. He loved to provoke a fight to get a reaction out of PURE frustration on my end.

Mine was as sadistic as sadistic could be. He would take great moments and then the next day was a completely different person.

LL

lesson learned

Farwronged,

My ex thoroughly enjoyed pissing off his ex wife. THOROUGHLY..with an arrogance that was unbelievable.

Just stand there smiling….as if a game…..as if he had won a round….

yuck…………..

LL

lesson learned

Kimmy

“I think that they were both driven by disorder, but the underlying human motivations were a desire to be loved.”

I don’t think they HAVE underlying human emotions in the way that we do. Mine had told me over and over he just wanted to be loved, all the while he was loved……….**cough** by many….

After all I’ve been through with this, as well as watching how he operates and has in both of his marriages, his desire is not human in wanting to be loved, but wanting to control.

LL

kim frederick

Farwronged, I think me do, and some don’t. Some think there is absoluly nothing wrong with them that it is the rest of the world that is F’d up. Some are aware that they are different, that they don’t experience emoton like the rest of us do.

The green river killer was asked in an interview what was missing in him that would allow him to commit such horrenous atrocitys, and he answered, “that caring thing.” He must have been aware he didn’t have empathy, but he probably learned it from one of the shrinks that was studying him. How do you know something is missing if you’ve never experienced it?

I think some of them just ride rough shod through life hurting others without much awareness or concern. But there are some who know there’s something missing in them, and they hide behind a mask, trying to appear normal, and act as if they did know the music.

kim frederick

You might be right LL, but I don’t think they see it that way. think to them it is a dsire to be loved. They are so disordered, they can’t FEEL love, they don’t know what love is, but they know it’s missing.

They batter their way through life trying to feel love, and the closest they get to it is control.

skylar

Kim,
I get that they substitute control for love, but what about the sadism? What is that a substitute for? is it because THEY are in pain?

OneBeliever

Wow. Thank you for posting this article.
Not sure what experiences others had, but this could have been written with my (thankfully) ex boyfriend as a model.
His mother abandoned him as a child. He was raised by a drug dealing father who become a sober hard worker ergo absentee father to him during his formative years. He became a steller baseball and football player who was offered a spot on a pro-baseball team roster at 17. But he loved football because he liked the physicality of the sport better. So he accepted a full-ride football scholarship to a state school.

The point about the testosterone is probably extremely valid. You can’t be too empathetic and be a successful athlete. You have to want to win and crush your competition without remorse.

The article also brings up the narcissism and antisocial behavior that lack of empathy can sometimes bring about. I can recall a time once when we were arguing about something or another, I asked him about the fact that he has very few friends. He FREAKED OUT. He got the strangest look I’ve ever seen and he asked me if I was accusing him of being antisocial – like I was accusing him of beating a child or worse. I didn’t use those words or even think of that, but it clearly startled him. But I digress.

The empathy thing is interesting though. They are probably not capable of love and kindness in the way normal people are. I believe my spath thought of sex or the physical part of it at least as love. And I think the more he got away with having lots and lots of sex with or without me, the more it made him feel special. I think he probably got off the same way from tackle football, rugby and karate – another hobby of his when he was in college.

Recovering

LL I agree as that was also my experience with the LOVE thing. Mine told me he just wanted to love and be loved back as well all the while he would tell me how many of his exs would still continue to call him because they were so in love and never got over him. It’s all a game to them. Ans its ALL about control. My ex would insist on me calling him daddy all the time but especially during sex.

Recovering

One believer,
My how your story sounds so much like mine.

OneBeliever

Kim,

Funny you mention hiding behind a mask. My ex actually brought me a mask from a business trip he took to Mexico City. He was very proud of this gift. Turns out, on this same trip he ‘hooked up’ with one of his colleagues who was also there as part of the ‘mission.’ They call them ‘missions’ when they travel for work like they are CIA operatives or something. Of course the whole mission concept only feeds into his secret life as an international stud.

The mask was really creepy to me. It only came together for me after I moved out and found out the facts about the lieing and cheating.

He also gave me a necklace from Spain that looked like a bedazzled dog chain. Another time, he gave me a black silk scarf from China.

He had a half sister who gave him a wood carving from Thailand of a couple in an embrace. I always thought that was rather strange too.

Beware of men who give you necklaces, watches and masks. They are telling you something.

lesson learned

Kimmy,

Interesting…..Love=control….I can see in so many ways how that would make sense….the control part is the total acquiescence of the object, ie: love for them “worship’

LL

lesson learned

Farwronged.

That’s interesting. Mine would show me that his other women were far more important and worth paying attention to than I was. there was always something fundamentally wrong with me He often elevated other women over me. It was constant.

Recovering

LL,

I was actually jealous of My ex’s ex. He would always talk about her and make reference to the time they lived together etc. She was his longest relationship and he is still sleeping with her til this day. While he boasted about her he also called her crazy and said that she too always accused him of cheating (as if any of our accusations were false) yeah right! There relationship ended due to a serious domestic abuse incident where she took out a restraining order on him. I cannot see why she would still continue to sleep with him, but i am sure its all mind control. He even told me the story about their fight and joked about it as if she deserved him putting his hands on her.

OneBeliever

Farwronged,

Are you sure he wasn’t/isn’t lieing about the fights, her accusations, the restraining order?

My sociopath made me believe his wife (they were on the outs when we met) was a lesbian who enjoyed the company of women to most men. But they managed to have ‘a good time’ as he described it. He told me he finally left her because she had a threesome at their home without his permission when he was on a business trip to India.

When I found out he cheated on me, I also found out he told the girl that he allowed to me to move into his house because I had no where else to go after my house went into foreclosure. He felt sorry for me. He also told her I had a drinking and drug problem, that I started smoking cigarettes again (I quite in 2000) and that I cheated on him with men and women.

None of these things are even remotely true. And I have come to believe that most of the things he told me about his ex wife and the mother of his two other children – he has three total – are all fabrications.

Finding out about the lies he told about me was devastating. Now I know he never told me the truth about much. And that is the reason most people like this don’t have any friends. They have to keep everyone at bay because if they got together there might be some blank spots or some exposure. Too dangerous to have friends.

In fact, when he and I first got together, he would ask to me participate in the lies. Say this or that when you meet so and so.

These people are expert liars. Don’t believe anything they say. Everything is a lie. Everything.

lesson learned

One believer,

My ex told MANY Lies about his ex. It would fill up an encyclopedia there were so many, many lies………..

I’m glad you posted this. My exspath blasted both of his ex wives, and was doing it to lure other women in too, the pity play. Topped it off with MORE LIES>

That’s what they are, that’s what they do. they lie even when confronted with the truth.

LL

skylar

The only way I can make sense of a sociopath is to imagine him as an infant.
Their ability to love is equal to an infant’s. Infants love is actually an attachment to its provider and to the things that are provided through the provider. That’s why they need to manipulate and control and dominate. They need to make sure that we will always provide And always love them unconditionally. Infants have no empathy or sense of responsibility. But do infants enjoy seeing others suffer? I believe that my little sister did. As soon as she learned to speak, she would manipulate my mom into punishing me by lying to her with a pity ploy .

lesson learned

Sky,

I read somewhere (this just dawned on me as I reviewed the posts on this thread, but can’t remember where I read this) that part of the reason for the psychopath’s sadism IS to project THEIR pain onto another…so by proxy, we are feeling the pain that they cannot.

LL

Recovering

One believer.

No i found the retraining order. This may seem weird to some or wrong. But I went through all of his belongings at his house. I tore up the place looking for things to prove that my suspicions were the truth. I did what i felt I HAD to do in order to see what kind of monster I was truly dealing with. The RO stated she rejected him for sex and he became erratic and out raged. He tried to burn her with a cigarette choked her and so on….It was really bad I couldnt believe what I was reading. Mind you my ex was also a coke addict so his P tendenancies were to the max and I am sure he may have been high the night they faught as well.

Recovering

Yes they lie and stretch the truth way beyond imagination but when they do tell the small truth there are always gaps and other fabricated stories mixed in. In some cases I believe they lie to cover up their own ugly truth. To forget about their horrible past or inadequate present reality thus making themsevles feel better or look better to the world. Sometimes I even thought my ex believed his own lies because sometimes he continued to tell the same lie over and over as if it were real.

Recovering

Skylar I like the infant analogy.

OneBeliever

Wow,

I’m convinced now more than ever that my ex’s youngest child, 9, will follow in her father’s footsteps. I am sure she has enjoyed watching the suffering of others. And with three older siblings, she is a master. She is already able to manipulate like no other. And I’ve watched her sneak around, lie, tattle tale about everything and sucker her dad into believing her older brother picks on her. At the time, I thought it was strange behavior because I was new to the unit.

Now I just think it is incredible how it all was unfolding right before my very eyes and I saw nothing.

In the end, I said something to him that I thought one of his children is growing up to be a monster just like him. I didn’t say which one, but I warned him that he was growing another one. But now that I’ve discovered this site, I’m thinking possibly two of his children have tendencies.

When we were together, sometimes he would make comments about how she was ‘just like her dad.’ I took it to mean in the good ways – talented, smart, athletic, good looking.

By the way, this place more than anything else has helped me on my way to feeling heeled – edited to healed. (Healing after a Heel – funny play on words.)

Thank you to all of you for everything.

Recovering

OB, mental illness and addiction are genetic traits! Be happy you didnt have any with him. My ex has a daughter who he disrespected and another on the way. I feel bad for their mothers and whoever has to encounter them.

lesson learned

Onebeliever.

My ex’s son is spittin spath. It’s disgusting. Teaching him to be just like him.

I’m sure new gf is off in lala land about spath right now, and hasn’t gotten what the kid is just yet, but I saw that cold, nasty look in his eyes and he’s VERY infantile in his behavior and SPOILED ROTTEN.

It’s not good for that kid. Not good.

lesson learned

Far,

I have six children with my ex P spouse. One daughter has N traits and my youngest son I suspect is spath. I’m not sure yet, but I’m on the dusty trail trying to find out. It wasn’t until I came here that I realized that genetics played a part.

Be glad you didn’t have kids with him. It’s hell.

LL

Recovering

Wow, and sad part is its incurable. However, I dont know how strong your Faith is or what you believe in but I don believe in the power of prayer. I still believe that children are innocent and they dont ask to be here. Pray and ask God to deliver your children and remove thse evil spirits because thats what mental illnesses are to me simply evil spirits. Its funny I was a psych pre med student in college before I switched to mass comm. Kind of funny having to use what I have learned and apply my knowledge and assess my own ex lover.

Sarah999

Hi Ox Drover,
First . . I’ve got to say . . . I love your posts.
Regarding Empathy & Compassion….Psychopaths that are “successfully” sadistic, most definitely feel what victim feels (emotionally and intellectually). But, their need to DOMINATE/CONTROL/TORTURE their victim supercedes everything!
They have tons of EMPATHY…but “NO COMPASSION”, i.e., They don’t care! Not only do they NOT CARE that the victim feels bad, they go further and relish the pain they’ve inflicted, as a testament to their POWER, DOMINANCE, SUCCESS & WINNING in their efforts (as some of the posts about sadistic psychopaths verify).

lesson learned

Far,

I have lots of faith. I pray a lot, but so far, prayer has not saved any of the spaths in my life and I come from a long line of them. I’m more mindful now of the ability for choice and spaths do have that ability as well as free will. It was that malignant belief that God would change my ex P hubby as well as last spath that kept me there far longer than I otherwise might have had i believed that evil does exist and it can manifest as a human being.

Psych pre med student? Wow. That was to be my major change before I had to drop out of school to deal with the ending of my relationship with spath.

LL

lesson learned

Far,

Excuse me just psych major not pre med too.

lesson learned

Sarah,

Great post! Well said! And TRUE!

LL

Recovering

Just keep the faith LL. Keep praying. Know that the sins of a father come upon his children. This is true. All you can do is keep the morality, ethic, and kindness teachings in your home. Teach them good character and what is good vs bad. Have you talked with a therpaist about them yet?

lesson learned

Far,

Yep. Took my youngest to a therapist a week ago. That didn’t work out. So onto a new one. I want a full psych eval.

Most of my children are grown and gone now, Far. I also have two grandchildren.

Just two boys left at home and this is the last in line.

LL

Recovering

Well know i am praying for you because this is an ugly illness.

lesson learned

Far,

Thank you. It is. I’m learning to accept whatever the outcome will be. I’ve been through this with another of my son’s before, but the outcome was very positive. I’m not sure about this one. Not yet.

I’ll have a better idea after the psych eval.

LL

Recovering

Well keep us informed.

Ox Drover

Thank you Sarah. Guys this discussion is so good. Kim, I totally agree with you, we must not allow ourselves to become bitter and frustrated, focused only on the bad side of life, and the bad people, and to dehumanize them—as much as it is tempting to do so.

That creep, “Crazy Bob” that lives across the road from me that sued me for $50,000 for HIS MENTAL SUFFERING because the plane my husband died in crashed in his pasture (doing no damage to anything or anyone besides the people in the plane) I lay awake night after night visualizing pulling his finger nails out with pliers night after night….shooting him, hating him….but it wasn’t hurting HIM, IT WAS EATING ME! The hired hand we had at the time, who was with me when we went to the crash site, stole my husband’s gold watch off his arm as he lay dying, and I hated him with a passion….I visualized doing all kinds of things to him….but it was EATING ME and not hurting him. I had to get those horrible thoughts out of my head. Out of my heart.

I did not want to be like those people who could do what they did to someone else…steal off a dying man, sue his widow…what kind of person does those things? Some pretty low life’s but if I let them make me hate, then I am in worse shape than they are. I would rather be ME and be the victim, than be THEM and be ABLE to do the things they do, and think they way they do. To have no compassion. Neither of these two men have a friend in the world and both are pitiful examples of humanity, but I would rather not have glee at their debasement in this life or what they might face in the next one.

I’ve not lead a perfect life myself, I’ve done things I’m not particularly proud of, I’ve said things I would bite my tongue if I could take back….but I am striving to be a better person, and getting the bitterness out of my heart even toward the people who do horrid things to others is part of that process. I can hold them accountable, and feel justifiable anger at what they have done wrong, but I won’t let it turn to bitterness and poison in my own soul! If I do they WIN! I won’t let that happen.

Recovering

Thanks Ox, I needed to hear that. It is hard trying to be true to yourself when you want revenge for something/someone that has wronged you. I am in the stage now of being angry, I am past the hurt that my S caused me. A friend sent me this, mabe it can help some others as well “How people treat you is their karma, how you react is yours” Thanks again!

Ox Drover

Dear Farwronged,

VERY TRUE! We have choices just as they do…I think we are better off if we choose well…protect ourselves and others if we can, but move on, not get mired in bitterness, hate, anger and revenge.

Ana

Oxy,
I think Viktor Frankl’s book kind of makes you take a look at yourself, evaluate yourself, your REACTIONS to problems that come up in life. Thanks again for the suggestion to read it. It lit a fire under my rear end for sure!!!

Now, I’ve got one for you if you have not read it already. The main character reminds me of you! It’s called “Half Broke Horses” by Jeannette Walls. It’s a paperback. It’s a just for fun read. Although she does get conned!!

Ox Drover

Thanks, Ana, I will order it tonight off the net….I sometimes act like a “half broke horse—or jack ass!” LOL I like a good read that is just a good story and that sounds like one…looking forward to it.

Yea, I agree that Frankl makes us take a HARD LOOK at how we react to even the WORST trauma–and if he can over come what he went through, I think we can too. Carrie ten Boom’s “The Hiding place” about her time in concentration camps in Germany (she was a dutch lady who hid Jews in her home) and her losses and her helping others recover from the camps afterward is wonderful as well. I just reread Carrie’s book, and it is as uplifting as Frankl’s is. I think nothing I have endured is nearly as horrific as what these people went through and I figure they are a good example for me to follow. I do NOT want to be embittered. I’ve seen people who took their losses and became bitter, angry and unhappy and I sure as heck do not want that.

I want to celebrate life and peace and happiness and love and caring…not be miserable about what others have done. It isn’t always easy, but I’m going to keep working on it. That’s why I’m still here at LF after going on 4 years! There is so much to learn here and to share as well.

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