A Cambridge professor, Simon Baron-Cohen, has written Zero Degrees of Empathy: A new theory of human cruelty. In this review, the author explains the professor’s ideas.
Read Why a lack of empathy is the root of all evil, on Independent.co.uk.
Link supplied by a Lovefraud reader.
super chic
gem, HIGH 5!!!!
hens, sorry you don’t get to see you son very often…
at least if you do call him occasionally… you can call his cell phone
and not have to worry about talking to the biatch!
skylar
HEY SUPER CHIC!
so cool to see you. You always catch me just as I’m fading out! Just saw a great movie called Dark City. highly recomment it to all.
It has a great subplot about SPATHS!
super chic
sky, I faded out too!! Now I’m awake for some reason!
I’ll have to watch Dark City, even the title sounds interesting!
I’ve got to stop putting an exclam after every sentence!
~~ xoxo ~~
Not-too-late
What do people think of the debate in the article about BPD? In the comments section, some were criticizing the author for lumping BPD with the rest, labelling them violent and non-empathetic. They see BPD sufferers are being hyper-sensitive and empathetic, but given to mood swings and uncontrollable impulses. The great thing is BPD is very curable with DBT. I think a couple of my older children are now exhibiting BPD traits, and I feel so so sorry for them, but not sure that I can do much about it when they are in such denial about the need for therapy.
Lately, I came to the conclusion that my violent ex was not a sociopath but probably a BPD/NPD. He doesn’t exhibit the symptoms of self-harming or impulse control problems though. But the black/white, abandonment terror, idealizing and putting down, etc. are there. Maybe a person can be part BPD-part NPD-part-APD!?
I like M Scott Peck’s treatment of evil in People of the Lie, “we are not created evil or forced to be evil, but we become evil slowly over time through a long series of choices.” and “the pretense chosen by the evil is most commonly the pretense of love.” Going by that, my ex was evil, even though his friends said he wasn’t, only flawed.
Also, M Scott Peck’s describes evil people as being characterized by abrogation of responsibility, scapegoating behavior, covert intolerance to criticism, pronounced concern with a public image, intellectual deviousness, with mild schizophrenic-like disturbance of thinking at times of stress. These fit my ex to a tee! With those distinguishing features, evil is not just the psychopath (as people often think it is), but also those who are often labelled “jerks”, “malevolent” and “difficult”.
Ox Drover
Dear Not-too-late,
I think the “diagnosis” and “symptom list” in trying to put a “label” on BPD or PPD or NPD is that it is like many other “medical diagnoses”
Say a list of symptoms of some physical disease
FEVER say…well, there is fever and there is fever it can be 101 or 105, it can be continual or intermittent, but you would say “the disease has fever”
Elevated white blood cell count—-well that could be a little elevated or a LOT ELEVATED…..
Rash–well the rash could be raised above the skin or not, it could be in huge patches the size of dinner plates, or it could be just a little on the arms and legs, or it could be on the palms of the hands and soles of the feet and inside the mouth
Cough–this could be a wracking, wheezing, horrible choking or it could be a little “huk” it could produce great strings of mucus or be dry and rattle.
Sore throat–well this could be swollen and red, so that it was impossible to swallow and almost impossible to breathe, or it could be a bit painful.
Swollen lymph nodes…they could be swollen to the size of grapefruits all over the body or there could be a few slightly swollen in the arm pits or the throat
Any number of “illnesses” could have any, all of these symptoms in one degree or another but be entirely different illnesses. Different causes, and different cures, or no cure.
A person with all of these symptoms could have as slight virus, or could be critically ill with some HORRIBLE INCURABLE BACTERIA OR VIRUS or any number of things in between. Yet, you could say they all had “the same symptoms” just to a different degree.
Mental diagnosis is the same way, so there are BPDs who have all the same “symptoms” as a PPD just to a different degree than the PPD or hide them better so the person doing the diagnosis can’t see them…or a person with a BPD label is wrongly diagnosed and should be dx’d as a PPD…
I too believe that WE (humans) —those with enough brain to understand right from wrong— have CHOICES in how we behave, and just as an “alcoholic” may have a genetic tendency to be a drunk more than you or I do, none-the-less, they have a CHOICE to drink or not. Their genetics do not compel them to drink.
Plus, there are people with SERIOUS “walking pneumonia” who are critically ill but don’t exhibit the usual fever, cough, shortness of breath etc. of the typical case of “pneumonia” so it is also with people with mental disorders–there are those with psychopathic personality disorders who mask well enough that they can actually “pass for” a caring human being.
I too like PEck’s books, but I think there has been a lot learned about psychopathic and BPD since he wrote those books as well as the fact that I think in the end, the “clinical diagnosis” name isn’t as important as the fact that we do realize that there are some people who are “Just” malevolent jerks who walk in the dark, evil pathway and we must avoid these people to the extent that we can.
Not-too-late
Clinical diagnosis is so hard to get too! His psychologist insisted there was no psychopathology, and in fact, didn’t even see the abuse. His only conclusion was that the guy loved his kids very much, but didn’t know how to show it! No wonder my ex stuck with this psychologist – thought he was great.
I know I shouldn’t even allow him rent in my headspace anymore, but because there are still kids issues, the harassment hasn’t abated, and so there is still plenty of opportunity for me to ponder the question – how can someone want so badly to change, and go through that much therapy with that many people, and even complete a batterers’ program, and STILL not see it? He’s not like your spath son, for example, who boasts of his wickedness and has no remorse whatsoever about it.
Everything someone suggests, he does! The pastor told him to apologize, so he did – and thinks there are brownie points for it. The psychologist told him to walk away when angry, so he would withdraw sulkily to his room – and accused me of not giving him credit for following instructions. He asked me to point out any abusive behavior, so I did – and he would drop his jaw and say, “sorry, THAT was abusive?? I didn’t mean to hurt you, I need to learn from you.” (!?#@) or sometimes, “different people have different definitions of abuse – that wasn’t on the list given to me.”, the counselor told him to give me space, so he stands 10 feet away from me when we see each other at handover, but doesn’t see texting me to ask to borrow something as unacceptable.
I just find it hard to accept the idea that if someone is evil, then maybe they are doomed to be evil. No wonder how much they want to change, they just can’t seem to get it. Maybe the choices they made formed subconscious, entrenched thinking that is almost impossible to eradicate.
Ox Drover
Dear Not-too-late,
I don’t accept that he is “trying to change” and can’t….he may be pretending to “try” but like Yoda said (someone else mentioned today) “it is do or not do, there is no TRY”—-I think they pretend that they don’t know what they are doing is “abuse” and that is in my opinion BULL SHIT…they are NOT RETARDED….I can accept that someone who is intellectually retarded/sub normal might not know, but THEY ARE NOT RETARDED…they KNOW….
I think the PRETENSE OF THERAPY, of trying to be better….etc. is just that a PRETENSE…part of the gaslighting to EXCUSE their bad behavior.
He may not relish the damage he does, or Obtain glee from it (that you can see) but I don’t buy that he is that confused…I think his “therapy” is just a smoke screen for getting away with his abuse by pretending he is “trying” to learn. Excuse me while I PUKE!
Ox Drover
ps Not-too-late, it is not unusual for them to “snow” therapists too, and unfortunately too many therapists seem to go by the thinking that patients are honest—-(excuse me while I puke again) and that there is “good in everyone deep down” gosh, I may lose weight and become too thin if I keep up this. LOL
Not-too-late
OK, I don’t want you to lose too much weight (not that I have any idea what you weigh!), so I better not supply you with pukable ideas!
You did the puking for me, cos sometimes I feel that way too, but all through our relationship I wondered how I could be right and experts be wrong? I was the only one wondering if he REALLY wanted to change, like he said he did. How could anyone be so dense as to look at you like you’re talking a different language when you talk about these things, then go, “It’s all too deep – I’m a simple man.”, then the therapist would go, “Men are different. You need to express yourself differently…”. Oops, better stop before you lose more fluids.
I think he convinces himself that he really wants to change, only because he can get more kudos for being a great guy and boost his self-image. Sometimes I also think men like him love a challenge and want to prove themselves. But because abuse is rooted in the feelings of superiority and self-importance, trying hard to prove oneself able to change is self-defeating. That’s why I think that abusers programs or abuse counselors should declare someone un-treatable and stop giving him/her more ammunition, once it is clear that the person is not making progress.
superkid10
Just really feeling bad todayf or the three years I gave my spath – I gave him time, affection and sex. I feel raped. I don’t know why I was so stupid. Christ it hurts.
Superkid