There can be different perspectives of the sociopath (and other seriously exploitive personalities). These perspectives can offer different experiences of these disturbed individuals. At the same time each perspective offers, I suggest by definition, both a somewhat advantageous and yet limited view of the sociopath.
Living with a sociopath, or finding oneself involved deeply in a “committed” relationship with a sociopath, will offer an incomparably intimate experience of the horrors that sociopaths can inflict on their partners.
Clearly no one, and that includes the so-called “experts” on sociopathy (clinicians and researchers, for instance) will be able to appreciate the impact of the sociopath, on this level, like the partner who has lived with, or been closely involved with, one.
This close, personal relationship confers upon the partner of the sociopath a certain knowledge of sociopathy and, I stress, a certain intimate experience of the sociopath that no clinician or “expert” can possibly approximate; thus, the sociopath’s partner’s experience is surely a unique one, qualifying him or her, from this particular intimate vantage point, as really the ultimate “expert” on sociopathy.
Now thankfully I’ve never lived with a sociopath, a fact which also happens to limit my experience with sociopathic personalities—specifically, in this case, the experience of having lived with one, and had my life razed by one.
In this sense my, or anyone’s, clinical experience of sociopathic individuals—just like one’s clinical experience of any individual—is limited by the structure of the clinical relationship. It is a relationship with boundaries provided inherently, so that the clinician or researcher (unlike the sociopath’s partner) is for the most part protected emotionally and physically from the sociopath’s most damaging, hurtful, violating behaviors.
On one hand, the protection to which I refer—again, a protection that’s inherent in the clinical setting—clearly limits the clinician’s capacity to fully experience the sociopath; on the other hand, the very structure of the clinical setting may enhance the clinician’s ability to apprehend aspects of sociopaths that may elude the sociopath’s partner, because he or she—the clinician— again unlike the sociopath’s partner, in operating within a structure of safety and protection, can observe and study the sociopath more freely and through a much wider lens.
The clinican is afforded the chance to observe and study sociopaths’ attitudes, their interactions, their styles, their variations, their differences. And, of course, not just one of these individuals, but many.
And so the clinician’s experience with sociopaths, while less rich and informative in some important ways than the partner’s experience of the sociopath, in other ways yields him or her different, additional opportunities to grasp how sociopathically-oriented individuals think and act.
And yet over and over again, I note it when a Lovefraud member points out, “But what do YOU know? Or what does HE know? You (or HE) never lived with a sociopath!”
And my response, whenever I read these comments, is to agree with them wholeheartedly. They are entirely valid comments and speak a truth that all so-called “experts” on sociopathy should heed well: those who have lived with the sociopath possess a certain knowledge and experience of the sociopath that is not only unique (as I’ve suggested), but non-attainable to a clinician in any sort of safe, protective clinical setting.
In this sense, or certainly in many respects, the clinician has much more to learn from the sociopath’s partner than the other way around.
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of the male gender pronouns is strictly for convenience’s sake and not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
Kalina:
I’m watching that show right now too……
It was a nice little old lady…..
I know my spath would have peeps in his life describe him the same way…..
It’s the facade. It’s what theyv’e watched in others behaviors….they mimic, it’s what they do to get supply. Hook em in.
Use the dupes as a front and a cover, unbeknownst to them….
Friends, This is ^ what is meant by “The Mask Of Sanity”, and “The Sociopath Next Door”.
Bingo
Dear Ox Drover,
My son was the “kindest “most loving son to me and to others. Thefts here and there always corrected by me but was convinced he didn’t really mean it. By 26 he was a full on credit card thief, bad check writer and shoplifter. Confusion was a way of life for me. My Ex. was a con and conned me out of large sums of money.
When you’re hooked into “false Hope”, You sacrifice what could be a Good Life. John Kekes, I quote him to myself all the time, “False Hope and the Vulnerability of Good Lives”, from his book, ‘Facing Evil’. I quoted Kekes when I finally threw my son out. I have not only a good life now, but I’m financially and spiritually whole. Thank you for listening!
Dear Kalina,
I can relate to the FALSE HOPE, I call it MALIGNANT HOPE because it spreads like a cancer in your heart! We want to keep on hoping against hope that they will reform.
I kept up that false hope from the time he was 15 to the time he was in his late 30s and had been in prison for 15+ years for various crimes, including murder. I hope your son doesn’t progress to murder, but I didn’t think mine would either, he was “only” a thief–I told myself. Now I realize there is NOTHING he would not do if he thought it would benefit him in any way, or just to revenge himself on someone he thought had thwarted his desires (mainly me, but my other sons too).
When I first came to LF it was mostly about people being defrauded by partners but then there were more and more people who came out and said “my X was a P, but I also have an adult child who is a P as well….” so then people started discussing sisters and brothers, and in-laws, and parents who were Ps…few of us have encountered only ONE psychopath in our lives. Some more and some less, but usually more than one.
Kalina,
I’ve been reading a little about “splitting”. From what I’ve read, it’s a form of “primitive defense” seen primarily in BPD. What you said about the SP’s emotional detachment, & about his “pretending to have a bond” with me made a lot of sense.
Are SPs considering Borderline Personalities? In trying to learn about SPs, I’ve run into a lot of information about BPD, & (like others, I know…I think Persephone mentioned something about it) I find myself identified in some BPDs (dependency & avoidance, especially) more than I do him. Seeing these BP traits in myself is a very uncomfortable feeling, tho I’m perfectly willing to own them & work to dis-own them as much as possible! Does anyone else have this reaction?
When J & I first met, he told me that he was a widower….that his wife of 25 yrs had died from cancer the previous year, that she had refused treatment & died 2 yrs after diagnosis. Naturally, I expressed sympathy. He then went on to tell me that, after being depressed for some time, she had become “severely bi-polar” for the last 9 yrs of her life, & that dealing with her illnesses (particularly the emotional ones) had been very stressful & energy & time consuming, so that her death was “actually a relief,” since he could now go on to live “his life” as he wanted.
I was relieved to hear that I wasn’t going to have to compete with the ghost of his dead wife, & included myself in the “new life” he was glad that he was now living.
I’m sure now that I should’ve seen “it was actually a relief” as a red flag, but I didn’t. Over the 8 yrs that I was with him (including the 6mos separation & his 26mos in prison), I began to wonder if maybe he was the catalyst for her depression, & its progression to manic-depression. But of course, I pushed that idea away! Now I’m looking at his 1st marriage of 3yrs, & that he told me wife1 was “crazy”, angry & destructive….oddly enough, huh, one of the things he said to me after he left was that I was “dangerous, angry, & destructive”! And I doubt that his 2nd marriage was what he’s described to me.
Though his 30yo son worships & adores him & eagerly rationalizes away any notion of wrongs in his father, his 27yo daughter has been estranged from him ever since 2001, after his Ecstasy lab was discovered 4 days after the death of his wife, & when he went into flight. She refuses to communicate with him to this day, even tho he’s made numerous attempts to reconcile with her. Now I know why!
She’s now doing post-grad studies in abnormal psychology.
Now I know why!
There was something about his relationship with the mother that he’s conveniently left out….I don’t know what it was, & will probably never know, since I have no way of contacting the daughter & the son certainly wouldn’t tell me. J always told me that he thot the daughter had been angry with him because the son had been working in the Ecstasy lab with him, & had to go into flight when his father did. And that’s reason enough!! (Fortunately they never arrested the son….J blames the discovery of the lab on his son’s “stupid mistake”!)
But I suspect that the daughter saw the treatment of her mother, & I think that must’ve included J’s neglect of her in the 9 yrs of her illnesses. I always thot, “wow, what a wonderfully nurturing man….that he cared for his wife thru her bi-polar years & nursed her thru the 2yrs of cancer.” But after he left, it suddenly dawned on me: he’d told me he’d bought a “Victorian home” in the suburbs for her because she didn’t want to live in town (a small city), & that he owned a 3-story bldg in town where he & the children lived in separate apts he built for them, & which also housed a coffee house run by his son, and his labs on the 3rd floor. If the wife was living “in the suburbs”, & he was living in town, working both as a legitimate scientist & an illegal chemist>>>>>Who was taking care of the wife??
Obviously a man unable to form real attachments.
WhyMe,
Why did the ex even want to have an ecstasy lab since he could make an honest living doing something else? What I have figured out with a sociopath, “there is always more to the story.” During your first post, I wondered what his marriage was like with the dying wife, strongly suspecting that it wasn’t “a picnic in the park” for her. A lot of people go to their graves not knowing that they have been involved with a sociopath.
Wow! what insights! Theft to murder. I hope not.
borderline development characterizes all those who use primitive level defenses. Personality disordered persons fit this group. Splitting is a primitive defense. The victim responds, “HE is all good, I am all bad”. The Aggressive narcissist says, “Yeh! You are just not good enough”. The Borderline victim suffers from low or no self esteem. This “It must be my fault”, attitude on the part of the dependent one, makes her look to the worst possible places for emotional validation.
Victim, “If I can’t find love from the worst how could I find love from someone more worthy?”
This lack of nuanced reasoning is a result of our emotions being split into all good or all bad. This keeps us confused. Confusion, is in itself, a primitive defense. Sociopaths and Dependents suffer from Borderline level disorders.
Dear Whyme,
If you will look at some of the threads on LF in the archives “explaining the sociopath” (Dr. Leedom wrote several of these, she is a psychiatrist) and there are other sources of information, Dr. Bob Hare’s book “Without Conscience” (available in the LF Bookstore) you will get some Of the scientific rationales concerning what is going on with psychopaths.
“Borderline” is one of Several of the recognized “personality disorders” and was unfortunately named back when they thought it was “on-the-border-of psychosis” (crazy, out of touch with reality etc) which it really isn’t, but it shares many characteristics with all the other “personality disorders.”
Sociopathy (psychopathy, anti-social personality disorder) etc. is not just an either/or situation but a continuum of symptoms from “fairly low level” to very high level–the ted Bundys and Charlie Mansons. Not all are criminal, in fact, probably most are not, but they are all concerned with CONTROL and all lack a consistent or high level of conscience. Some are “successful” and wind up in the White House or Governor’s mansions of this world, others wind up on Death Row or Skid Row.
The main thing we must all keep in mind is that they are INCAPABLE of having a healthy relationship with anyone.
If we are not wise in who we choose to stay with, we wind up with them, trying to help them overcome whatever “problems” they have, and Oh, can they elicit pity from us!
It doesn’t mean we consider ourselves worthless, in fact, research indicates that many or most of those of us who are “chosen” victims just have an over abundance of empathy, but are successful in most aspects of our lives including our self esteem (before we encounter them anyway! LOL)
The healing process starts out learning about them but ends up in learning about ourselves and why we let them into our hearts and minds, and how we can protect ourselves from future attacks by the Psychopaths in the world.
Fearless: this is about a post on the 9th that you wrote-my ex spath did exactly the same thing….we were in therapy about 3 years..had 3 different therapists (one couple I think were on to him…they took me aside after an intensive weekend session and said he wasn’t ready wasn’t accountable…I had no idea at that point he was spath and they might have only thought he as N but there was a little validation for me) anyway, he would act like big man on campus, all charming and smart and together…I’d be crying on the drive to the therapist so I always looked emotional and out of control…he later told me the therapist thought I was an emotional void…so needy…first I doubt the therapist said that and 2nd I am not needy! but at that time I was drawn into his bs. BUt our first therapist was always laughing, engaged with him…and one weekend, after I had been up in the city getting away from him I came back and found out that my x spath had met with therapist without me and together they decided he should take me off the financial accounts! He called me as I was driving home, said he wanted to take me to dinner, he missd me etc. Then he saw me said my hair looked great etc etc and then we ordered dinner and bam! he threw that on the table…he was taking me off the accounts and our therapist agreed! He thought I’d be great with that! I stopped eating, was sick to my stomach…..found out the therapist did collude with him without me….I was furious. I got up and left, crying. I was always crying it seemed out in public with him.
One day, after being crazy and screaming at me I told him to stop the car and let me out. I as going to walk home. Needed to get away from his verbal abuse…..he let me out and then drove circles around me like a crazy man. (He is a physician!) and then as I walekd 5 miles home in not great walking shoes (my feet were bleeding by the time I got him home but that was better than being around him) he went to our friends house and said to them “Oh, I am SO worried about my wife….I think there is something seriously wrong with her. She jumped out of the car and walked home” So he makes it as though I am a nutcase rather than the real story…he is a sicko abuser. You are so right EVIL is right.
CAMom: I am sooo sorry that you have been roped into this guys madness. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT. As others have said, this is about him. This is his final way to control you…DO NOT TAKE ON HIS CRAP! Please talk to people. Don’t let him win. TAKE GOOD CARE OF YOURSELF….surround yourself with people you trust and love. Michael S was sick. Very sick. There was nothing you could do at all…NOTHING. He lost control. STAY EMPOWERED.