There can be different perspectives of the sociopath (and other seriously exploitive personalities). These perspectives can offer different experiences of these disturbed individuals. At the same time each perspective offers, I suggest by definition, both a somewhat advantageous and yet limited view of the sociopath.
Living with a sociopath, or finding oneself involved deeply in a “committed” relationship with a sociopath, will offer an incomparably intimate experience of the horrors that sociopaths can inflict on their partners.
Clearly no one, and that includes the so-called “experts” on sociopathy (clinicians and researchers, for instance) will be able to appreciate the impact of the sociopath, on this level, like the partner who has lived with, or been closely involved with, one.
This close, personal relationship confers upon the partner of the sociopath a certain knowledge of sociopathy and, I stress, a certain intimate experience of the sociopath that no clinician or “expert” can possibly approximate; thus, the sociopath’s partner’s experience is surely a unique one, qualifying him or her, from this particular intimate vantage point, as really the ultimate “expert” on sociopathy.
Now thankfully I’ve never lived with a sociopath, a fact which also happens to limit my experience with sociopathic personalities—specifically, in this case, the experience of having lived with one, and had my life razed by one.
In this sense my, or anyone’s, clinical experience of sociopathic individuals—just like one’s clinical experience of any individual—is limited by the structure of the clinical relationship. It is a relationship with boundaries provided inherently, so that the clinician or researcher (unlike the sociopath’s partner) is for the most part protected emotionally and physically from the sociopath’s most damaging, hurtful, violating behaviors.
On one hand, the protection to which I refer—again, a protection that’s inherent in the clinical setting—clearly limits the clinician’s capacity to fully experience the sociopath; on the other hand, the very structure of the clinical setting may enhance the clinician’s ability to apprehend aspects of sociopaths that may elude the sociopath’s partner, because he or she—the clinician— again unlike the sociopath’s partner, in operating within a structure of safety and protection, can observe and study the sociopath more freely and through a much wider lens.
The clinican is afforded the chance to observe and study sociopaths’ attitudes, their interactions, their styles, their variations, their differences. And, of course, not just one of these individuals, but many.
And so the clinician’s experience with sociopaths, while less rich and informative in some important ways than the partner’s experience of the sociopath, in other ways yields him or her different, additional opportunities to grasp how sociopathically-oriented individuals think and act.
And yet over and over again, I note it when a Lovefraud member points out, “But what do YOU know? Or what does HE know? You (or HE) never lived with a sociopath!”
And my response, whenever I read these comments, is to agree with them wholeheartedly. They are entirely valid comments and speak a truth that all so-called “experts” on sociopathy should heed well: those who have lived with the sociopath possess a certain knowledge and experience of the sociopath that is not only unique (as I’ve suggested), but non-attainable to a clinician in any sort of safe, protective clinical setting.
In this sense, or certainly in many respects, the clinician has much more to learn from the sociopath’s partner than the other way around.
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of the male gender pronouns is strictly for convenience’s sake and not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
I signed up for my own closure this week. I took out a restraining order on my s-path non-son, effective for my whole family. So I have removed him from my life entirely. OxDrover, I don’t know how you survived it. He was my “son” (I felt so, he only pretended) for only 3 years, but I am still really grieving despite everything he did to deserve it. He is effectually dead to me.
I have been asking myself this week since I decided to go this route: why have I held on so long? It’s because I knew that once I blew the whistle that he was abusing me, my husband would step in with guns drawn (and he did, literally) and I would never have contact with this guy again, even if I wanted to. No one in the family would. Ratting him out meant killing off all the motherly hope in my heart, and although I was so happy and overjoyed to be free of the horrible torment and abuse, as it sinks in, I’m left with a lot of head-spinning grief.
For crying out loud, I put up with UNIMAGINABLE things, just holding onto the hope, the false hope, that he would change. That he was just around the corner from getting better. That he really was “sorry” and “trying to be good.” That if I would just throw myself under the bus for him (and I really would have), I could save him. You are so right, he is driving the bus! And I now have no doubt he would run over me on purpose. Really. And leave me bleeding in the street. And laugh. And tell me to get up, quit being a baby about it, and quit making a stain in front of his Jeep. Really.
I glossed over it on my previous posts, I was probably still pretending to myself, but there was sexual abuse, which I re-framed as “my fault”… I was the “mother” after all. I thought I should have done better, should have known how to stop it, should have been able to talk him out of it (nevermind that I tried thousands of times). I don’t know; he literally took all sane reasoning away from me. But plenty of times I FOUGHT him, and even won sometimes.
I told my husband all of this, he is patient and understanding as a saint. I thank God he didn’t think I was the crazy one. He says, after all, he knew something was seriously wrong with me, I only had to give him a clue what it was. The s-path’s behavior was totally different toward me versus anyone else.
Now unfortunately the s-path’s girlfriend’s mom has been calling to accuse us of being cruel and heartless, putting this “great kid” out in the cold. We tried to explain what has been happening, even alluding to the sex abuse. Predictably, he’s already gotten to her, convinced her of his greatness. This woman is actually defending him as a great boyfriend for her daughter: a man who now has 3 women saying he’s a sex abuser, one of which is someone he calls “Mom”! That is his power over people, wow. Unbelievable. (BTW, we knew about the 2 previous accusers, the charges were verifiably dropped, and so we truly believed his story that they were falsely accusing him. Now of course… ??!!)
My husband wants me to prosecute for the repeated assaults but after hearing the GF mom’s reaction to the rest of our story, I don’t feel like being called a liar for THAT too. The police and a doctor have already chastised me for waiting so long to tell. I will have to do a lot of thinking. Plus, do I really want him to go to prison? Of course, yes, but on the other hand I truly did (do?) love him. Real love, the kind that wants the best for him, not self-seeking.
One other thing… so sorry about the suicide situation above, CAmom. Don’t blame yourself. It is not your fault AT ALL. I’ve always looked at suicide as their final ultimate “discard and devalue” of life itself. Being the opportunist and user that he is, he used his decision to be as hurtful to you as possible. He wanted your guilt to be a lasting monument to him. Don’t go there; he doesn’t deserve it. Take care of yourself. So sorry for your experience.
Dear Justdreamin,
Trying to get others of his dupes to believe you is a LOST CAUSE, I am afraid…as far as pressing charges, it would most likely be very difficult to convict–as well as stressful for YOU.
My suggestion is that you go TOTALLY NC with anyone who has contact with him in any way. DON’T TALK ABOUT him to anyone outside your family. DON’T defend your position.
I know that is difficult to do, believe me, because he will SMEAR YOU to everyone who will sit still and listen! THAT IS WHAT THEY DO.
I strongly suggest you get counseling. There are reasons you “fell for his line” and lies and there are damages he has done to your psyche, LF is wonderful but some professional counseling I think will also help. BE SURE you get a counselor that gets what a psychopath is!
God bless, Just dreamin! I am so glad he is gone, and great you got the restraining order! (((HUGS)))
Thanks, Erin Brock –
Always checking in to read and keep up . Just sometimes I don’t post.
Just waiting on “This too shall pass'” – it’s a long time coming.
Be Well !!!!!
Wow, I am just blown away by the posts here.
CAmom,
OMG, I can’t/can imagine what you’re feeling right now. My heart goes out to you….& as others have said, “you didn’t do it.” Try to heal & find peace, darlin.
Oxy,
having only been here a few days, I had no idea what you’d gone thru with your son & others in your life. When I think about the trials I’ve had—the trials that were pointed out to me by my minister tonite—& then think about yours, I’m awed by your strength.
newlife,
I can’t tell you how much these comments of yours resonated with me & my experience w/ a SP:
“he took great advantage of all the good things I was, eventually pointed out all the things I lacked which somehow turned out to be just about everything. Now, I am nothing but dirt to him. He never loved me, never wanted to be with me ”“ but geez, he lived a pretty good life for 22 years.I know now I ignored what I shouldn’t have , looked past what I didn’t understand and didn’t try to name the bahaviors that were selfish and self-serving.” I’ve gotten a lot of good advice, & have identified with much of what others have said in the few days I’ve been with LF, but this really described my experience. Except that it was 8 yrs, & not 22, & no kids.
And, ifinallygot[it]: “I am completely changed forever in every way and it saddens me, he took my innocence away”
Exactly. That’s what saddens me, too….at 65yo I lost my “innocence”. I was thinking about this earlier tonite—that I don’t feel like myself anymore. I don’t sense the MOXIE in me anymore. I have a hard time envisioning myself ever being the highly enthusiastic, energetic, entertaining “girl” I’d been all my life until the last few years of his draining it out of me—& my never realizing until he left that he’d had an IV line hooked to my psyche & my person for the last 8 yrs, & that my life force had been slowly dripping onto the dirty floor. I was looking in the mirror & seeing how much my face has changed in the 3months since he abandoned me w/out a word….3months ago, I looked 55…today I look a very sad, even possibly bitter (oh no!) 60. I can only hope & pray & work for the day that I can begin to find myself again….& look in the mirror & see a beautifully peaceful & joyous face there again, even if it’s a weathered & lined 75.
I am so thankful to have found you all here at LF.
Ox Drover or anyone else willing to give advice,
I’m really sorry, it is very difficult for me to put into writing, or verbalize for that matter, my thoughts.
I think what I am trying to say is – we are all here because we have all encountered a Sociopath, one who has done immeasurable damage to each of us.
What information could have been given to us so that we were armed and just maybe could have avoided all of this pain?
We are all here after the fact.
How do I teach, instill, in my children the tools they will need to avoid this kind of predator?
As far as closure. I have posted before that my spath was a woman. A family friend who created a very twisted triangle with me as the victim, my husband as the enabler, and herself as the perpetrator.
Years went by. I was tortured by her, my children were tortured by her, and even my husband suffered at her hand.
This woman did something; we don’t know exactly what, to my son. At the time of the incident, we did receive advice from an attorney and therapist. He is the sweetest little guy. Now nine, he continues to suffer from separation anxiety (mild) and is exhibiting signs of ocd. Two summers ago we ended up taking him to the head of the neurological/opthalmological department at Children’s who confirmed what our therapist suspected. I don’t remember the current name; it used to be referred to as hysterical blindness.
Oh this story, as with all of ours, can go on and on with twisted detail.
She has moved on. Lied her way out of so much. Her husband remained with her and does everything he can to cover up her behavior OR has bought into it all again.
I want, more than anything for him to know the truth. I have not spoken to her or had any contact with her for years. I am fully aware that there is nothing that I can ever say to her that would help me ‘close’ this.
I desperately seek closure but have no idea how to get there!
Dear Still trying,
I can understand your need for “closure” and All I can say is that if you depend on them to give it to you, you will wait until hell freezes over, they will never give you closure.
I have had to make closure for myself by saying “I will never take any more of this from you!” DONE, ENOUGH! OVER!
For so long I tried to get them to see what they had done, were doing to me and others. Nah, they could not, would not, get it. DIDN”T CARE!
I saw the look of UTTER CONTEMPT in my mother’s face as she looked at me, the way you might look at a lice encrusted —nah, a normal human would not look at ANYTHING the way she looked at me. So let me say she looked at me the way Hitler would have looked at Anne Frank.
That look was the same as the look of rage and disdain that my P-son had looked at me with, or my P-sperm donor looked at me with. I call it the PSYCHOPATHIC LOOK. THE look. There is none other like it. It bores through steel like Superman’s X-ray vision. You won’t forget it once you have seen it. It is literally like looking into the eyes of Satan himself.
I don’t know if you remember the photograph of Charlie Manson with that piercing look in his eyes that was in all the newspapers and magazines not long after he went to prison. It is THE LOOK. Actually one of the few photographs that caught THAT LOOK exactly, at least in a human, though I have seen a few photos of snakes that almost had it.
I imagine actually that at one point or another you may have seen that LOOK on the face of your tormenter. Consider that closure or as close as she will give you.
Sorry that your son has problems, and I am glad that you are getting him some help. As far as instillling in your children how to protect themselves, teach them and model for them GOOD BOUNDARIES. I never learned boundaries at home, only that I had NO RIGHT TO SET BOUNDARIES, that I had to keep everyone ELSE happy and what anyone did to me was OK as long as I didn’t object and upset the tormenter.
I am only now in my 60s learning to set boundaries with those who are in my family. I never had much trouble setting boundaries with those outside my “circle” of close friends and family, but if someone inside the circle took advantage of me I would NOT set boundaries with them. It is difficult to do it now at times, but I am learning and doing it—even when it hurts, but I know I must do it and that it is RIGHT to do it. I will not let others run over me “rough shod”—it is OK to protect myself. I work on making my boundaries within good limits, but those limits are FIRM.
1) NO lies (applies to adults, young kids get a pass, but we “talk about it”)
2) NO dishonesty with anyone over any thing.
3) NO deliberately hurting another
If people act with kindness and treat others with care, concern….and are not dishonest….what problem could there be that we can’t work out? None that I can see.
If people are dishonest and lie, and treat each other with unkindness, lack of concern …what problem is there that we CAN work out?
You must also get it across to your children, I think, that there are those people who will NOT act honorably, and if they encounter that kind of person, they need to back away from that person as much as they can EMOTIONALLY. They may still have to be in class at school with that person, or live next door to that person but they should not TRUST that person.
Learning to set boundaries and to trust with CAUTON are the two things I would want my kids to learn before they went out into the world. Everything else they can work out for themselves I think. Any ideas anyone else?
Still trying:
When it’s romantic…..before we are educated, (and sometimes after even) I don’t think there is anything we can do…..becuase most people won’t educate themselves on something they don’t think applies. It’s only AFTER it applies and they are searching for answers.
When it’s a random person targeting…..it’s just about educating ourselves…..again….usually, unless you’ve been targeted you won’t look for ‘answers’ or information on it.
Kids: Well….I think it’s an evolution….as parents we want to love and guide our kids…..and at some point the behaviors become so abusive and bizaar, we start searching (again) for the answers…..parents will always give their kids the bene of doubt…..for a Looooongggg time. We don’t ever want to ‘give up’ on our kids…..
I really think we need to be ‘touched’ by a sociopath or a Cluster B personality disorder to provoke us into learning and searching for answers.
I have kids….teens…..and their father is a spath. They witnessed first hand the drugs, he even took them on ‘vacation’ to the pot farm for a week….treated them like a frat dogs, feeding them pot leaf salads with ranch dressing, telling them it wasn’t the drug unless dried. He also told them if they ever told their mother, it would be the end of our family.
He called them faggots, pussies, pushed them around and bullied them…..he accused them of things HE had done….and they took the brunt. They witnessed him selling drugs at concerts he would take them to.
He hit them, choked them….yadaya….you get the picture….
The kids enlightened me…..like they say….Mom, you had your blinders on.
Once I realized the narcissistic and sociopathic traits and spoke to his psychologist about it…..and resarched myself….I finally….after 28 years….realized….HE AIN”T CHANGEN!
I threw myself into educating myslfe….researching….reading…..learning others stories, and rehashing my own……trying to put the puzzle of ‘how’ did I get ‘here’ together….my life puzzle…that was important to me.
As I educated myself, my kids witnessed my modeling new behaviors and mindsets.
They would read artricles I had on my desk. They would ask questions of their own……I didn’t push it on em…..but I left the infomation around ‘IF’ they were interested…..several were interested….eldest really interested…..slowely, they picked up on it, because they certainly recognized the signs in their father.
We went to therapy, we discussed it lightly there……the eldest took it to the younger ones…..they talked about it with their friends…..and saw toxicity in some ‘outside’ situations and learned through this education process ‘how’ to deal with it.
I think they saw my crusade with the courts….the judiciary and my intent to educate the judiciary…….and knew this was important.
My eldest is such a champ…..when it comes to spotting….he ‘gets it’…..and gives NO second chance. If a friend acts out……he evaluates the friendship……a boss…..he knows he must ‘deal’…..and does accordingly.
I’ve heard him discussing the behaviors of his friends father….when his friend comes to him asking ‘why’ does my dad do this. I ( I know this kids dad…yes a spath IMO).
I hear my kids discussing it with adults…..when appropriate…..
I think like they hear me discussing it with the bill collector, the census worker, my friends and whomever comes my way.
So….kids do get it….they can……but like us…..they will only get it in their own time…..and usually only when it hits too close to home.
OxD,
Thank you. I have tears in my eyes and a lump in my throat.
Yes, I HAVE SEEN THE LOOK! It’s empty, hollow, evil…
Your description of yourself rings true for me as well.
I’m not sure I will ever be able to get over that one person could do so much damage.
I’m sure, I have danced with the devil!
Peace to us all. Thank you, thank you for your words!
ErinBrock,
Thank you. I am beginning to see my daughter handle things the way your son does…it makes me incredibly proud that at 13 she ‘gets’ what has taken me 43 years to ‘try’ to understand.
Keep on going… I’m stronger than I ever realized… I just keep telling myself that!
Thanks!!!
THE LOOK. That’s one thing I’ve been meaning to mention in my short time here. I’ve seen so many of you refer to THE LOOK.
I didn’t even think about it til J was gone, but when I finally did, I remembered THE LOOK as being cold as ice, predatory, almost like a wolf calmly observing its prey, & with an only slightly veiled hatred. I tried to explain it to my son, my therapist, my friends after he left. I just didn’t have the words for it…I didn’t know it was an actual, identifiable LOOK. It would happen at the most unexpected times…..I’d ask him a question, nothing probing or off-kilter in any way, something simple, & he’d look up at me with That Look. I denied it. Thot it was just, oh, something, nothing, certainly nothing to bother my pretty head about.
AFTER he left—-not BeFore he left—the image of That Look was burned in my brain…..& I began to realize that it’d gotten to be there all of the time in the last couple of weeks before he walked out. It didn’t matter what we were talking about, or what was going on. The Look was there, & then some sort of irritable response to what I’d said…..I’d be shocked & say, “well you don’t have to snap at me”, & continue on with what I was saying.
As Oxy said, “THE look. There is none other like it. It bores through steel like Superman’s X-ray vision. You won’t forget it once you have seen it. It is literally like looking into the eyes of Satan himself.”
How blind can a woman choose to be to negate That Look??!! I feel so affirmed in my realizations about what J really was now, & all the mentions of The Look have cemented it for me: tho I still try to blame myself, tho I stupidly want to believe that he truly loved me, that surely there was something I could’ve done to prevent his leaving me so cruelly, sending my life & dreams of my future crashing to the ground—-hearing from so many of you about The Look, I can’t deny what he was any longer.
Yes—only a being not quite like us, only one who doesn’t share the feelings, compassion, empathy, sense of fairness toward those in our lives, & LOVE—could have eyes expressing that degree of evil.
J used to tell me that when he was in the first grade & he had to write about what he wanted to be when he grew up, he wrote, “I want to be a human bean.” Sadly, he never became the “human being” he thot he wanted to be.