There can be different perspectives of the sociopath (and other seriously exploitive personalities). These perspectives can offer different experiences of these disturbed individuals. At the same time each perspective offers, I suggest by definition, both a somewhat advantageous and yet limited view of the sociopath.
Living with a sociopath, or finding oneself involved deeply in a “committed” relationship with a sociopath, will offer an incomparably intimate experience of the horrors that sociopaths can inflict on their partners.
Clearly no one, and that includes the so-called “experts” on sociopathy (clinicians and researchers, for instance) will be able to appreciate the impact of the sociopath, on this level, like the partner who has lived with, or been closely involved with, one.
This close, personal relationship confers upon the partner of the sociopath a certain knowledge of sociopathy and, I stress, a certain intimate experience of the sociopath that no clinician or “expert” can possibly approximate; thus, the sociopath’s partner’s experience is surely a unique one, qualifying him or her, from this particular intimate vantage point, as really the ultimate “expert” on sociopathy.
Now thankfully I’ve never lived with a sociopath, a fact which also happens to limit my experience with sociopathic personalities—specifically, in this case, the experience of having lived with one, and had my life razed by one.
In this sense my, or anyone’s, clinical experience of sociopathic individuals—just like one’s clinical experience of any individual—is limited by the structure of the clinical relationship. It is a relationship with boundaries provided inherently, so that the clinician or researcher (unlike the sociopath’s partner) is for the most part protected emotionally and physically from the sociopath’s most damaging, hurtful, violating behaviors.
On one hand, the protection to which I refer—again, a protection that’s inherent in the clinical setting—clearly limits the clinician’s capacity to fully experience the sociopath; on the other hand, the very structure of the clinical setting may enhance the clinician’s ability to apprehend aspects of sociopaths that may elude the sociopath’s partner, because he or she—the clinician— again unlike the sociopath’s partner, in operating within a structure of safety and protection, can observe and study the sociopath more freely and through a much wider lens.
The clinican is afforded the chance to observe and study sociopaths’ attitudes, their interactions, their styles, their variations, their differences. And, of course, not just one of these individuals, but many.
And so the clinician’s experience with sociopaths, while less rich and informative in some important ways than the partner’s experience of the sociopath, in other ways yields him or her different, additional opportunities to grasp how sociopathically-oriented individuals think and act.
And yet over and over again, I note it when a Lovefraud member points out, “But what do YOU know? Or what does HE know? You (or HE) never lived with a sociopath!”
And my response, whenever I read these comments, is to agree with them wholeheartedly. They are entirely valid comments and speak a truth that all so-called “experts” on sociopathy should heed well: those who have lived with the sociopath possess a certain knowledge and experience of the sociopath that is not only unique (as I’ve suggested), but non-attainable to a clinician in any sort of safe, protective clinical setting.
In this sense, or certainly in many respects, the clinician has much more to learn from the sociopath’s partner than the other way around.
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of the male gender pronouns is strictly for convenience’s sake and not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
Dear Whyme,
Yea, once you see it you remember it! THE LOOK.
My kids always said I had a look that could turn you to stone, and I guess I have A LOOK when I am angry, but it is nothing like THE LOOK (at least my son D says it isn’t) but I think lots of us moms have A LOOK that can wither a kid who is acting up across the room, or can cut someone “dead on the spot” if they are being a snoop. LOL In fact, I can think of a couple of times I have used my “look” on adults who were misbehaving and withered them on the spot. (in fact, I remember a couple of those times with great fondness! ROTFLMAO!)
But the ONLY people I have seen with THAT LOOK, that super dooper piercing x-ray vision LOOK is from my egg donor and from the rest of the Ps in my life. If you took a PCL-R and tried to classify my egg donor as a psychopath by that evaluation tool, she would flunk miserably, so I have labeled her a “Psychopath-by-proxy” as her ENABLING is so toxic and so hard core that she would do anything legal or illegal to “save” my P son from spending the rest of his life in prison (as long as no one outside the family knew! Have to keep up appearances you know! LOL) but she gave me THAT LOOK of utter disgust, of utter hatred, and that was when I KNEW there was NO working with her, no way that she would ever change. She did not love me, had never loved me. Does that make her a psychopath by Bob Hare’s definition? Probably not, but she is TOXIC and she is mean as a snake where I am concerned at least. If she has compassion for anyone it isn’t for me.
That’s a hard pill to swallow, but it gave me closure of a sort, though I still continued to grieve over it.
Your IN-human BEAN never made it, Whyme, but you have—you’re a human bean if I ever met one, and you will recover, but he will never never be anything but what he is, and that’s sad, really sad. But on the whole, I’d rather be US than them. (((Hugs))))
Human Bean? Was that from Jack and the BEAN stock?
Figures a farmer like Oxy would come up with that one!
🙂
The LOOK. Ahhhh yes….the LOOK!
YEP….Uh huh.
When I started cleaning my house of spath….I went through a trunk of pics from the kids birth-digi era.
Also our wedding album etc….
I always noticed something NOT right and would ask him….’are you okay’…..he always had a look of anger on his face…..like he was always Pissed.
No…nothings wrong….why do you always ask me that?
SNAP!
His look made me uncomfortable……since I can remember.
Looking through the pics, and being aware of what I had been dealing with now……ALL those pics had the LOOK.
Angry, hollow, empty eyes…..smile (forced) or sneer…..the LOOK was always there.
Even all those christmas morning ‘ball’ shots….had the LOOK on his face…..with his balls hangen low!
Ahhhh yes….the LOOK!
Dear Oxy Thank you, there were days going through the court process that I couldn’t even get out of bed, I was distressed, heart broken and in a state of shock and panic. I said to my self many times, I cant do this, I cant do this, then I would look at my little girl and got up and kept fighting for her. My fight was all about her it wasn’t for money or to get even, I had to protect her.I had no choice! He could take my money, my heart but I had to protect my little girl from him destroying her as he has his other 2 daughters and every other person that dared to love him.
I could not have done it without my parents support, financial & emotional. My step dad who I am very close to as I lost my father when I was 20 sat beside me through every court hearing.
She is my gift in life and she is all mine! I dreaded the thought of co parenting with my violent dangerous spath and my heart goes out to any parent that has to co parent with a spath!
I am blessed that he is gone far away and prey he will never find his way into her life ever! Hope you are well Oxy! Has it started to cool down where you are yet?
And speaking of all this Evil. Tomorrow is 9/11 so I am thinking of you all! 🙂
I remember A look, in the beginning, he was staring at me, I had to look down, now I know he was sizing me up, studying me, ugh. I learned that here at LF. Never would have known what that was, yeah, the predator trying to figure out if he can bring down his prey and what’s the easiest way to do it. I’ve seen photos of his shit face, sometimes it seems like he is looking at something else, maybe doesn’t like the person taking the picture? Or doesn’t like having his picture taken? What is it… others have written how they smile but it doesn’t light up their eyes, or their eyes don’t crinkle up, the smile is so fake. What am I talking about?
WhyMe,
The ex said that as a child, he wrote “I want to be a human being” (when he grew up) – interesting. As a child, I wonder what he exeperienced internally. That is such an odd statement to make. What did he as a child consider himself to be, non-human? I’m trying to figure this out. It’s disturbing that a child would say that – he knew something about himself that others didn’t grasp. Fascinating and sad at the same time, especially coming from a child.
Regarding “the look,” the only distinct time that I recall seeing it was during a family vacation to Tennessee one summer. He was standing on a deck (of a house) and he was alone. I was outside on a grassy hill, looking up toward him, and I saw that he was smiling weakly, having a dark vibe to him, looking agitated, uncomfortable, causing me to feel unsettled, like he possibly knew he was experiencing something internally and stepped out on the deck to try and contain it. Does this make sense? I never talked to him about it, at the time thinking that he was becoming overstimulated by our kids, needing a break from them.
commenting on the look…..my x spath had a look I always called the “asshole” look. I couldn’t figure out what it was. It was a blank shut down. I saw a curtain fall over his eyes…I cannot describe it. He would smile but as others have said there was no light in his eyes, no crinkle of the corners, no spark, no humanity. It was scary. He did this look anytime I wanted something. Or if he didn’t want to deal with something, talk about something. It was his defense so I’d back off. And I would because it was so scary. Later on I called him on it but he had no idea what I was talking about.
Has anyone noticed weird religiosity? (a kind of made up word I realize!) He started ‘speaking in tongues’. He was, in his words, a ‘closet christian’ when I met him. We didn’t talk about christianity for a few months after we met. Then one night when we were at a party on a ranch in Texas he was very drunk. (His first wife told him and I told him that he shouldn’t drink…he turned very mean and cold when drinking) He asked me, when drunk, “Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior?” Naturally, having never talked about this before I couldn’t understand what his real question was. If there was another question under it. He asked me over and over. But he was drunk so I didn’t really answer him. It was strange. Then, I became a christian in 2000 and after 6 years in our nondemoninational church I started feeling brain washed. Hard to explain. My parents, my friends (when I started to make contact with them after being isolated from them for years) told me I was really “different” and they were worried. When I finally left him it was like a huge weight off my shoulders and within 2 weeks my self esteem was back, I was feeling “in the light” and very happy, confident again…Until the S*** hit the fan and he started attacking me using D and money etc. Then one day he drove up to the city to “talk” to me at my condo. He and I sat outside the condo (my mom was recovering from her first of 3 breast cancer surgeries inside) and as we sat down he said “Can we pray?” and I said yes. He grabbed my hands, which I took back, and started a normal kind of prayer but it quicklye evolved into a kind of exorcism…He started to get up, (he is a big guy) and towering over me he said “SATAN! I COMMAND YOU! GET OUT OF ______and he said my name. He did this over and over, he was sweating, spitting practically and he freaked me out. I told him to stop and I got up. He also told me he had started ‘speaking in tongues’. I am not a demonstrative Christian…and that made me skeptical. I know it happens and I have read about it but for him to say it was not believable. He had also chosen a guy in our town to be a spiritual mentor…this guy had a strange family, a very weird affect, and I always was weirded out by him and afraid that my x spath decided to choose him as a mentor. Creepy.
And, lastly, one time, a few months after I left him I was driving with D down to see him and “talk”. He called and asked me where we were and I told him we had about an hour before we’d get there. He said “Hurry” I said why. He said “Well all your friends are here”. That freaked me out, the way he said it. I said “what do you mean all mean all my friends” and he said “Well, everyone from the church is here waiting for you. We are here to do an intervention”. I freaked. I said, “I told you. I AM NOT USING DRUGS. I have had 5 years recovery and YOU have not made me use again that’s for sure”. I even told him I’d do a hair sample so he could see over months if I had used anything. He then said “I know you aren’t using. It isn’t that kind of intervention. It is a spiritual intervention.” I got a horrible feeling inside my gut. I said what do you mean spritual intervention…you mean like an exorcism? And he didn’t respond. I told him I was turning around and going back to the city. He begged me to come down and I said NO! He said well we are going to pray over you anyway. I hung up and drove to the city with my D.
It was so weird. He was trying to say that satan was in me because I left him. And he used the drug use as my reason for leaving him…I WOULD NEVER leave him otherwise! And saying I was having an affair. The same thing he said about his first wife after she left. Neither of those things happened. I had a short relapse after surgery a couple months later and he found out about that and ran with it….I had had so many losses, lost my support etc and I was so afraid…I screwed up but was honest about it and got back into my program….but that was all he needed. MAD at myself….
Anyone else have this kind of weird experience with spath?
WHY ME ~
Good name – a question I’ve asked myself a bazillion times.
What the heck did we do to deserve this ?
I was not perfect, often irritated and tired from all the responsibilities that fell on me , said no to sex at times – which really pissed him off – because I was resentful of his blatant disregard for my well being.
But as a person and wife – I didn’t and still don’t deserve any of what I am experiencing. Since I have let go emotionally, he now uses finances to hurt me. He doesn’t care he is hurting the kids too .
I am so sorry your experiences have landed you here – but it is the best place you could have found for help.
The knowledge that is gained here is invaluable and will keep you in the right direction. Counseling on a personal level is highly recommended. I wish you healing…
Chinagirl, No nothing so extreme, but I do know they will use the holier than thou ploy, if it suits their purpose. I think it works quite well to manipulate and controll, but only those who haven’t yet seen the evil benieth the mask…once you know they are false profits, they really have no hold on you. When you wrote that you turned the car around and went back to the city, I was so glad and inwardly gave you a hooty-hoot, or as we say, TOWANDA!
You know the reason this religious stuff works on so many of us, is the same reason why we are targeted in the firstt place. We are GOOD people, who desire to do the right thing, do onto others, love our neighbors, turn the other cheek, etc,etc,etc, and while these are all virtues, we have them to a fault, and the Spaths know it. These virtues apply to relationships with normal people not Spaths…at least not to our own detriment.