Editor’s note: The Lovefraud reader who writes as “Glinda” sent the following letter. I’ll provide my thoughts at the end of her letter.
“NEVER Dating Again” Punishment or Prudence?
I have most of my life back in order, post sociopath. Work is good; I have friends; I have hobbies; and my kids are well cared for and seem to be well-adjusted to our family routine. I also don’t worry and think about getting asked out much. I’m pretty sure I put a “nuh uh” sign out, in neon. I haven’t had any interest in dating—in fact, I’ve sworn off relationships in general. I’m not lonely. I’ve filled my life and don’t feel empty or sad. I have a terrible track record in picking men”¦and a worse record in the ones who have chosen me.
On the occasion I do go out, it’s the resident bar fly loser that comes to talk to me. I don’t even have to dress suggestively—I can wear a blouse I wore to the office and dress pants and be among women who are dressed “out on the prowl” and loser-boy finds ME. It seems safer not to date, obviously. Admittedly, ONCE in awhile, I think, “it would be nice to have someone in my life.” The feeling hasn’t been strong enough to act on it. The other day, I ordered a cheap wedding band looking ring to wear when I go out, in hopes that it will be a deterrent.
Recently I joined a hallway conversation at work with a couple of people I’ve known and worked with for years, and another guy I had seen around, but didn’t know. I interjected funny things into the conversation—my MO really—humor. I have a dry and sarcastic sense of humor without much fear of looking silly. I’m not terribly self-conscious these days. I don’t worry about men at the office being interested in me—I’m not looking and decent guys never ask. For the most part, it never crosses my mind. At home, I joke about now being A-sexual. “New” guy is laughing at my jokes and sending furtive glances my way. I notice, but don’t think much of it. I recently dropped some weight and I’m getting noticed again. I still have a ways to go, but he isn’t the first guy to give me a second look lately.
A day or so goes by, and I have a Facebook friend request from him. Hmm. I am friends with several folks from work. I think about it for a couple of days”¦ I don’t know him that well. But, we don’t work on a project together and we’re not under the same leadership tree. I don’t do stupid, drunken antics and then also post the pics on FB. I don’t complain about work or other coworkers on FB either, decide it is “safe enough” to friend him.
Next day, he comments on something of mine. Hmm. That feeling that he liked what he saw/heard gets a little stronger ”¦ Maybe he just thinks I’m funny. I pawn it off on that.
Later, I get a FB msg. Hmm. Not entirely odd—I get frequent msgs on FB”¦but”¦? We chat on FB, back and forth, 2 or 3 msgs a day. Nothing overwhelming, very banal conversation. But the fact that it’s starting to build up makes me think. Makes me think what? I don’t know exactly. I respond to msgs, at my leisure, waiting and watching to see where this is headed I”˜m being “hit on!“ Ha ha! I’m not getting a creep vibe off of him— but I really don’t know him. I’m nervous, but also pleased.
A few more days of FB msgs, and him hinting around but not directly asking, he asks if I’ll go to lunch with him. RED ALERT!!! RED ALERT!!!! I am officially freaked out! WHY would he ask me out? Do I still have, “Easy Pickin’s” stamped on my forehead? Or is he genuinely interested”¦and HOW THE HECK DO *I* TELL THE DIFFERENCE?????????
I should probably state here that I don’t NOT want to go. I want to. That scares me as much as his asking. What happened to “no dating, ever?” It HAS been 4+ years, after all. Is it possible that I’m done “licking my wounds” and AM ready to move on ”¦ I just needed some sort of prompting? Or am I NUTS? I honestly do not know. Sigh.
I decide to accept the lunch invitation. What’s the worst that can happen, right? Hahahah—I know EXACTLY what the worst that can happen includes. I fret over my decision for a couple of days—trying to separate if I’m getting a bad vibe from him or if one of my baggage U-hauls has dumped the contents on my front lawn.
I have refreshed myself on the red flags on LoveFraud. I’ve reread Martha Stout’s “Rule of Threes.” So far, in our FB and emails, he doesn’t match up with any of those. He appears to have some qualities I prefer. Also, he’s employed, just bought a new car so he should have some credit— and the car isn’t over the top. It’s in the range of what most of us buy in our salary range.
We’ve talked a few times at work and I haven’t noticed anything out of the ordinary—and believe me, I’m LOOKING for it. I’ve been looking for ANY indication that my bad man magnet is still operational”¦any excuse to nip this in the bud and go back to my comfort zone. I ask LOTS of questions”¦how else do you get to know someone but asking, right? I’ve asked him about things he likes and doesn’t like”¦without already having my likes and dislikes as ready answers. (I’m a little smarter than I used to be.) He gets a little tongue-tied when talking to me (a good sociopath never gets tongue tied). It’s kinda cute, really”¦as long as it’s sincere and not some new “game” he figured out.
SLOW SLOW SLOW. I’m in no hurry as this plays out. I’ve spent some time on the internet—yes, I Googled him. The alma mater he lists on his profile actual matches the hit I got for his graduation (with honors). He hasn’t mentioned it ”¦ it’s the only “hit” I got. We’ve talked on the phone a couple of times; it was nice. The more we talk, the more I feel a bit more at ease. Not glib. Not a braggart. Not pushy. (I HATE PUSHY!) Not exciting, and you know what I mean”¦ just normal-ish.
I’m still suspicious”¦ well, let’s call it cautious and reserved, shall we? I went to a male coworker (and friend) that I trust. We’ve worked together a long, long time—I could trust him with any secret. He also knows what I went through with the spath. I pulled him aside and asked him if I still had “Victim Here” written all over me, or if I was “dateable”? Seriously. *I* think I’ve changed. *I* think I’ve grown wiser. I LIKE to think that”¦ but do we really know until we test that theory? After he rolled his eyes and I reminded him of where I’ve been, I got the “dateable” answer. Ha ha!
In addition to Googling him, I’ve tried to gain some insight on my conflicting thoughts. I’ve tried searching “Dating After Sociopath.” I got a whole lot of nothing. There are tons of sites that discuss escaping and recovering from a spath (which is good and unfortunately necessary)”¦ but what about the next step? HOW does one take the next step without feeling crazy again?
It’s not just “Dating After Divorce.” I didn’t just “lose interest” or “grow apart” from my spouse”¦or even “just“ get dumped I all but got my soul sucked out. In a couple of weeks, I lost my husband, my imaginary life, my home, and everything, EVERYTHING I thought I knew. He’d also been sexually abusing my child. For years”¦while every day telling me how much he loved me. For months, I kept discovering more and more betrayals and lies. How on God’s green earth do you EVER believe a SINGLE word again? How do you trust another’s motivation again? HOW? The vast majority of people in my life are those whom I’ve known for a decade”¦or 2 or 3. How do you “vet” a new person? And do I, or my kids, deserve my taking that risk? After everything that happened, everything I allowed to happen, by putting up with nonsense, shouldn’t I stay single/solo? Shouldn’t that be my punishment?
I’m still talking to “new” guy. If he is sincere”¦he’s probably feeling a bit perplexed. I answer many questions with a question and frequently give vague answers—I’m not drawing anyone a freaking roadmap to destroy my soul again. What he sees is probably my blowing hot and cold. A more accurate description would be just guarded and REALLY guarded.
Our lunch out is Tuesday. I’m not sure whether to say good luck to me”¦or him.
Donna Andersen replies
We are allowed to recover from the trauma of the sociopathic relationship. We are allowed to move on. In fact, if we don’t move on, if we don’t take our lives back, we are still in the trauma. It is healthy to put an end to it.
Recently a reporter was writing an article and sent out a query: “How do you know when to trust “your man”? I believe the answer is you can trust your man (or woman) when you can trust yourself.
Of course, that is exactly what Glinda is struggling with—as are many of us who had multiple run-ins with sociopaths and other bad actors. How do you know that you’re no longer sending out the “I’m a victim” vibes?
For Glinda, I believe the answer is in the beginning of her letter. She is basically at peace. Work, friends, hobbies and kids are all good. She’s not lonely, empty or sad. All of this means that she is not looking for fulfillment from outside of herself. She is balanced and centered, and this is the best place from which to start dating.
We get in trouble when we feel that we are not enough on our own, and we need another person in order for us to feel successful, validated or complete. It’s the desperation vibe, the neediness vibe, the incompleteness vibe, which attracts the predators. If we’re in a place where companionship would be a pleasant addition to our already reasonably okay lives, then we’re in a place where we can invite someone to join us.
This is really the biggest sign that we’re ready to move on. But here are a few other tips to keep in mind.
Dating tips
1. Know the warning signs of sociopathic behavior in dating situations. Keep in mind, however, that you may not see these behaviors right away. Sociopaths can successfully put on an act for quite a long time.
10 Signs that you’re dating a sociopath
2. If you ever see a behavior that makes you respond, “Huh? What was that about?,” pay attention. It may be a sign that the mask has slipped, just enough for you to catch a glimpse of what is really there.
3. Check the person out. It is now commonplace for people to Google potential partners right away, so don’t feel like you’re out of line by doing it. In fact, Google creatively. Check out the person’s name, employment, and any background information that he or she offers you.
4. Do not allow most of your relationship to be email, text or even phone. Experts estimate that 65% to 90% of the meaning in communication comes from nonverbal cues. With email, text and phone, these cues are missing, so we don’t get the full range of human communications. So what do we do? We fill in the gaps with what we want to believe. We fall in love with our own fantasies.
5. Avoid long-distance relationships. You want to be able to get together with this person easily, and, if it works out, frequently. You want to be able to meet friends and family, see his or her workplace, and spend time together in a variety of environments. If you can’t conveniently drive to get together, the relationship is probably a bad idea.
6. Do not throw away a perception. If some behavior or statement strikes you as odd or troublesome, do not let the person talk you out of it or explain it away. Do not let the person gaslight you into believing it never happened.
7. Consider what your friends and family say. If people are telling you that the guy or gal is bad news, they have a bad feeling, or any other negative feedback, at least listen. You may even have to solicit their opinions. Often people have reservations, but they don’t want to spoil your happiness, so they don’t say anything. Give people an opportunity to speak. However, if you have bad vibes, and your friends and family say you should give the person a chance, trust yourself.
8. Go slow.
9. Trust your instincts. We all have an internal warning system. If your stomach goes in knots, the hair on the back of your neck rises, or you feel fear, listen to yourself. Many of us felt the warnings before we became involved with sociopaths—the feeling that something wasn’t right—but we didn’t pay attention. Your body will tell you when someone should be avoided.
10. The first person you go out with may not be the love of your life, and that’s okay. Sometimes people come into our lives to help us continue to heal. You may have a few interim involvements before you find a person who has the potential to be a permanent partner.
It is possible to recover, to heal, to fall in love again. And I can tell you, the love I have with my husband now is richer and more fulfilling than anything I experienced before the sociopath.
Glinda, it sounds to me like you’re in a good place and you can trust yourself. There are plenty of good, empathetic and loving people out there. Don’t feel like you need to know how it will all turn out before you start. Let everything evolve, and pay attention to what you experience, and what you feel, all along the way.
Aerin,
Welcome to LoveFraud. I was fortunate to find my way here only a few months after my SP walked out without a word of warning…..it’s taken you awhile to get here, but you’re here & you’ll find so much healing here.
I related so much to your story because it’s much like mine:
“He just lied and manipulated me with his broken dreams & promises! It still hurts so much that the seemingly good relationship we had was false. He was never mean to me, always attentive and good to me. We had so much fun.”
J was never EVER violent, & he didn’t take actual $$ from me…he just took 8 yrs of my life, lived in my home (rent & utilities-free), 2 yrs while he was a federal fugitive, & 4 yrs after he got out of prison & was on probation. And of course I waited for him for the 2 yrs he was in prison, waiting only for the day he’d come “home” & we could get on with our lives. He had used a lot of drugs in his life, but never after he got out of prison (for making 350# of Ecstasy). He didn’t even drink until the last 6 mos after he got off probation.
And then he was drinking heavily, totally frustrated because he couldn’t leave me quick enough to get on with HIS LIFE with the very wealthy woman (16yrs younger than I) who he’d had a concurrent relationship with ever since 2 months after he came “home”. He traveled a lot, was a highly proficient, sociopathic liar, & she was traveling to meet him all over the country.
There was an article on here awhile back called “Sociopaths Target Our Dreams.” It’s their MO. And they carry it out by their supranormal ability to LIE.
You sound positive & focused on yourself, your daughter, & your future, Aerin: you’ve done the biggest part of the hardest work all on your own! Good Girl!!
dancingnancies,
I lived blissfully single & alone for 14 yrs before I met J, & was primarily celibate the whole time, with a very few exceptions, usually years apart. It was the most peaceful, most fulfilling time of my life. I made myself a button: just a bright green circle with a brighter yellow bar across it, & I always wore it on my suspenders. I was riding my Harley all those years & of course 🙂 wore suspenders. When guys would ask me what the button meant, I’d tell them, “NO. Simply NO.” Once a guy asked me why I wore suspenders & I told him, “So that nobody will F*** with me!” There was a great deal of empowerment in all of that. I’d often said that I felt like I’d been chased across the planet in my underpants for 30-40 years….Then I suddenly realized that there was a way to put a stop to the chase. Just Say NO. 🙂
And then I ran into a sociopath who destroyed all my resolve at first meeting, & continued to erode my sense of self & independence for the next 8 yrs as I invested all I had within me into HIM. That’s a mistake I won’t make again!
Haha that’s awesome. I am vowing celibacy for now.. this year. But just overall I’ve realized the slightest trigger/red flag will put me off. I don’t care about your “potential personality” despite the red flags.. ( Isn’t that what we bet on with the sociopath? Their “potential” , not the behaviors we necessarily saw? ) if i see those red flags go up, GOODBYE. 😉 I’m perfectly contented and have much to see on my own, if the right person comes along so be it, but if not, I’m going to revel in my own party, cake, spritzers and all. There isn’t enough time as it is to see all there is to see for myself anyhow. That’s just the tip of the iceberg in this life. Hell if I’m going to be wasting my precious time now with anyone who doesn’t deserve it. No exceptions.
Dear Ox Driver,
Thanks so much for the warm welcome. I’ve taken a tour of the LF website since I found it last month. There is such a good wealth of information on here. Family & friends can listen to you, be there for you, support you, but to know that people on here “get” everything I’ve been thru is so comforting to know. It’s a wonderful feeling. Thanks again!!
Dear WhyMe,
Thanks for your response. I did read the article “Sociopaths Target Our Dreams”. That’s exactly what my ex bf did to me. I’m a single mom with a psycho for the father of my dear child. He knew how important getting married & having children was to me. He would tell me he wanted to marry me, we would joke about how many children we would have. To know that that was just a joke to him makes me so sick to my stomach. I sometimes just want him to die for everything he has done to me. I am half Italian and my Italian blood gets boiling sometimes. My half sister was joking about who she could hire to break his knee caps. LOL
But anyway…thanks so much. I really do appreciate your kind words!
I read some of the posts where people felt asexual, not attractive after their encounter with the sociopath. I felt the same way, but I was blaming it on being a new mother, breast feeding, dealing with having my life come crashing down on me, and grieving over the loss of my beloved mother who passed away unexpectantly when I was 5 months preganant. Yes, I’ve been thru a lot the passed year and a half. I know I’m a survivor and I know God is always with me. I would pray to him to help me figure out everything that was happening to me. By chance, and the will of God, I was sent here. And yes, my questions were answered. THANK YOU!!
I’m an attractive, intelligent – a little clear but intelligent, ambitious, nice woman. I always had a healthy dose of self worth, self respect, & confidence. My parents raised my sisters and I to be good people and to have good, respectful lives. Never in a million years did I think I would cross paths with a sociopath. Let alone have a child with one. Sociopaths are serial killers, rapists, not someone “normal” you see just walking down the street. They are scary looking and not nice people you want to be around. Little did I know!!
Do you know how I met my ex bf?! It wasn’t in some cheesy bar, or some on line dating service. He was the brother of one of my co-workers. A co-worker who I knew for 6 years, a co-worker I went on vacation with, a co-worker I trusted in not setting me up with a LOSER! I knew how much she loved her brother and knew they had a pretty good sister/brother relationship. He was after me for months. I was seeing someone else (who by the way was normal,responsible, successful, loved me more than anything, wanted to marry me, but I knew he wasn’t the one) but then I broke up with him and that’s when my co-worker(we’ll call her Lynn) told me how much her brother kept on asking about me. He was cute, charming, funny, exciting, nice, successful as a contractor. I knew he had some drug issues and a minor run in with the law, but I was under the impression he was trying to get his life back on track. Even though things happened with us very quickly, I was still very cautious with him. He would say how much he loved me, how much he would love to marry me, that I was such a blessing in his life. I knew it was too much, too fast, and I knew if he really wanted to spend the rest of his life with me he was going to have to prove himself to me.
We had a good run for 7 1/2 months (I never would have stayed with him if he displayed signs of being a bad person. He put on a pretty good show). That’s when I found out his drug use was worse than I suspected, and I also found out I was pregnant. Perfect timing, right?! He slowly morphed into somebody I didn’t know anymore. He became a monster. So sad to think that someone I loved so much became such a horrible person.
The thought of being happily married never left me. Even in the depths of my despair I always knew I wanted to trust again and be happy again. I want to be the happy, carefree, trust worthy person I was pre-sociopath. Of course I’m a little wiser now, but there is still so much good out in the world!!
Aerin,
Hi and welcome to the worst club with the best people!
I’m the resident cynic, I don’t believe their are very many good people out there. The ones that there are, are here, ON LOVE FRAUD! Thanks Donna!
We were the naive ones who thought that there was good in everyone, LOL! I thought love could save the world. right….
It’s probably a sign of the times as much as anything. Too much easy wealth doesn’t work well with human beings who have inherited the sufferings of their parents. We inherited their persecution complexes and added it to our own sense of entitlement. THAT is a perfect mix for creating a sociopath.
But, God has a hand in everything so I don’t worry too much about it. I trust his wisdom.
That wisdom is being seen now in the way the internet has been used to get the word out about sociopaths.
I have a link I want to share with you, I’ll go look for it and post it. It shows evidence for optimism. I think everyone will like it.
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/220466-Psychopaths-and-Google-Trends-Awareness-of-Humanity-s-Intra-species-Predator-is-Growing
judging from the comments section, I’m not the only LF reader who has seen this site.
Check it out, the info about psychopaths is EXPLODING. soon everyone will know.
Sunlight is the only thing that kills vampires. I’m very optimistic.
Glinda – I’m so glad that you’re in a place now where you feel happy with yourself and content, and I hope that this guy treats you with the respect that you deserve.
I hope nobody minds me ‘hijacking’ with a situation I’m currently going through but I don’t think there’s a general ‘forum’ as such (if there is, please accept my apologies). I’ve been the victim of several spaths in my life, to such an extent that I honestly felt I had the word ‘victim’ invisibly emblazoned on my forehead, because after my life was destroyed or my world came crashing down and I managed to pick myself up a bit and try to move on, a new spath would appear and destroy everything all over again. The worst one, however, was about 3 years ago, because after I thought I’d got him out of my life, he then sabotaged the next relationship I was involved in with a really nice guy because the spath was friends with this boyfriend. Threats were made to my boyfriend etc, and he dumped me – I think it’s cos the spath was terrified that I might convince my boyfriend what he (the spath) was really like and thus ruin his reputation.
My ex and I stayed in touch a bit as friends, but we drifted apart, which was a shame because he was a genuine guy. He always had a bit of a ‘submissive’ personality in that he seemed to be the type to be taken advantage of a bit, or easily swayed. It has been 2 years since I last saw him, and we bumped into each other about a month ago. We are sort of ‘involved’, I’m trying not to get too close emotionally but I think that maybe he is genuinely interested and he seems to have matured a lot since 2 years ago. However, I think he is still friends with the spath and the spath’s friends who were convinced (despite all the evidence to the contrary) that I was evil incarnate.
I’m just wondering if anyone thinks that it’s a bad idea that I’m involved with this guy, or if I should mention anything about the spath to him – or if anyone has any advice that might help me? The guy does make me feel happy when I’m with him and I keep thinking of all the red flags but he seems genuine. However I don’t want to end up in a situation where I get screwed emotionally because his friends still hate me and pressure him to dump me for a second time.
Can someone answer me please?
Kind of an emergency– no I am not in harms way.
I have not been on LF in a year or more and hello to al of my former acquaintances. Things have been going well for me.
I started dating this guy last week and for the first time since my SP two years ago– I began liking a man!
he has been hilarious. Smart. 6’4″– gentlemanly, kind…
guess what my friends????????????????
I googled him today and he had the Attorney General of NY sue him for 200,000 bucks for taking peoples’ money– he is a contractor– and not finishing the jobs or doing a shabby job.
Please someone reach out to me.
I googled and googled and found it all to be true and it is him. He had brought me to xmas dinner and I met his family.
Dear God– the time google will save some of us.
I want to believe it is not true.
he called me twice today and I did not answer.
I was so looking forward to a romantic dinner at the Cheesecake Factory tomorrow and daincing and now I could just die. I truly started falling. He was soooooo much of what I wanted.
Can someone write me something? It was the first time I have trusted someone– and got intimate and now look.
the attorney General Cuomo– took this guy’s home/property and sold it to pay the eight victims. I think I am writing this to you to see it for myself and to come out of shock/denial. Victims akitameg- victims and you will not be one again.