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By March 17, 2008 Read More →

Discrimination and sociopaths

“Discrimination” has come to be a dirty word. It brings to mind unfair treatment of individuals because of race, religion, gender, national origin, physical disability, sexual orientation or some other broad categorization. People have been killed, beaten, denied jobs, denied housing, prosecuted, persecuted and denigrated because of some demographic category to which they belonged.

All of this applies to one meaning of the word “discrimination.” But there is another meaning that is vitally important when it comes to sociopaths. Here are the two meanings according to the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language:

    Discrimination

  1. Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit.
  2. The ability or power to see or make fine distinctions; discernment.

Created equal

So far, we’ve been talking about the first meaning. In the United States, there’s always been a moral tradition against this type of discrimination. In church, we’re taught that “we’re all God’s children.” In school, we learned that “all men are created equal.”

For generations, though, the words were one thing, but practice was another. So laws were passed to prohibit discriminative behavior and to encourage redress of the violations of the past. This is generally good. Yes, some people take advantage of these laws, but the intention—a level playing field for all—is admirable and right.

I remember when this effort was just getting underway. I was a teenager when the feminist and black power movements began in the United States. When I was in junior high school, a question raging among my classmates was, “Do you believe in women’s lib?” In college, I was once asked, “Do you believe in black quarterbacks?”

Now, the questions seem so quaint that it’s hard to imagine they were seriously posed. Today’s young people don’t even seem to need the concepts of “political correctness” or “diversity awareness.” They appear to be inclusive of all groups of people. This is terrific.

But there is a downside to all this inclusiveness.

Non-judgmental

It seems that in our efforts to be non-judgmental about groups of people, we also hesitate to be judgmental about individuals.

Based on what Lovefraud readers have said in telling your stories, it seems that most of us are moral, caring, considerate people who want to live productive lives and help our neighbors along the way. We are inclined to realize that people have problems and give others the benefit of the doubt. We want to believe that everyone has good within them.

When we run into a sociopath, this mindset can be disastrous. It leads us to keep lending assistance, keep believing the apologies and the promises to change, far longer than we should.

Where sociopaths are concerned, we must discriminate, in the second sense of the word. We must develop “the ability or power to see or make fine distinctions.” We need to know the signs of a sociopath, and when we see them, get the person quickly out of our lives.

Evil people

The problem is, until we’ve tangled with a sociopath—and probably had our lives close to ruined because of one—we don’t even know that we need to discriminate, let alone how to do it.

I’ve written before that sociopaths are evil. People take issue with this terminology—it seems to have religious implications, or at the very least, convey a message of intolerance.

In The People of the Lie, M. Scott Peck, M.D., defines evil as “that which seeks to kill life or liveliness.” Evil, he says, has to do with murder—which can be either physical murder, or murder of the spirit.

This is what sociopaths do. If they don’t physically kill us, they suck out our emotions, energy and resources, until we have nothing left, not even our sense of self. They murder our spirits.

There are millions of sociopaths living among us, ready to commit this type of murder. But instead of being taught that they exist, what to look out for and when to discriminate (the second definition), we are taught that it is wrong to discriminate (the first definition).

Yes or no

Sociopaths cannot be identified by any readily apparent characteristics such as race, religion or gender. Every demographic group—men, women, rich, poor, all races, all faiths—includes some sociopaths. They can only be identified by behavior.

We need to know how to spot these evil people. The essence of discrimination, as in discernment, is learning when to say yes and when to say no. We must say “no” to sociopaths.

Tolerance is generally good for society. Sociopaths, however, do not deserve it.


Great post Donna. I will take your post one-step further and say they are oppressed, obsessed and posessed (very few total posession) by the Devil . Those are some of the ways the Devil effects a soul.

I realize many people aren’t religious and even many clergy do not acknowledge with good there’s also evil. Many religious believe “there’s some good in them”- which theologically is true, no one on earth is 100% evil Thomas Aquinas explains this if someone is interested and I can’t possibly do justice to his explcation, BUT some people come damn near close to 100% evil.

The Devil wants us to deny his existence, we delight him when we do. Think about psychopaths they want the same- disbelief. When I delved into my faith I realized believing in God, good, meant also accepting evil. And when it comes to the unrepentant, the Bible tell us to walk away.

Why we think we need to provide “hiring quotas” for psychopaths I do not know. I practice zero-tolerance, and on a side-note what I have found is once you stop playing they reveal themselves.It is frightening to see that we are indeed making their mask for them. That’s what the devil counts on, that we will believe his lies.

BTW – Dr. Peck participated in exorcsisms and thought they were necessary and the only treatment for psychopaths.

I would like to see a t-shirt, like they have for non-smoking, that has “Sociopath” on it. Actually, you could sell them on your site, I think they’d be a big hit! At the very least, they would be a very good conversation piece, and would help to inform and educate present and potential victims!

I do not presently see any GOOD in my ex-Sociopath, whom I previously trusted implicitly and believed was a man of honor and integrity. He is nothing but a predator with an agenda (mostly money and sex). EVERY action by a sociopath has a manipulative, underlying, evil purpose. Any “goodness” by them is feigned…with an underlying motive.

I also practice “zero tolerance”. One red flag, and you’re out. No exceptions.

That is a great post, Donna. And so true.

We are taught in school that “it takes two to fight” and that “there are two sides to every story” and in my opinion I think teaching these things to children is very countrer productive.

It only takes one to fight (bully), but they do need a victim.

The fact that there are “two sides” to every argument does not mean that each should have equal weight.

We are taught not to “profile” individuals because of their race, dress, education, financial status, etc. but at the same time, we need to also use some common sense in our personal lives. I realize that a bully or psychopath can be any race, age, economic status, gender, etc. but we have to “profile” them by behavior. We do have to discriminate in the sense that we have to assume that if they behave like a psychopath that they likely are one and treat them accordingly (avoidance of any intimate dealings or financial dealings).

I have found that it doesn’t matter if they gave birth to you, or you gave birth to them you must GET AWAY from them at all costs.

Many people (who don’t understand the P mentality) would say to me “Oh, you can’t NC your mother” or “but he’s your son!” and put pressure on me to resume contact, to continue to “try” to “fix” them, “give them another chance.” I surcummed to this pressure for years, feeling in my bones it was wrong, but allowing it to push me back into the FOG.

I too believe in God and His goodness, but I also believe in Satan and his evilness. Whether you believe in a supreme being or not, EVIL in this world is a FACT. “Man’s inhumanity to man” is a FACT. Ps and their predatory nature are facts.

Just as there are breeds of dogs generally more friendly than other breeds, you can “profile” the dog (on sight) and decide for yourself whether you want to pet it or not. Unfortunately you can’t tell the human “beagles” from the “human Pit bulls” on sight, but we must use behaviors and our knowledge of P behaviors in order to not stick our hands into the Ps’ mouth for another bite. And, keep in mind that they are masters of disguise.

I agree with holywatersalt about ZERO tolerance, and have accepted my first criteria as “the lie.” The first time someone lies to me, they are forever out of my inner circle of trust. (small children excepted) LOL

Looking back on my dealings with Ps, every time I “forgave” a lie, and let them back into my circle of trust, it was the WRONG move. I realize that not everyone who tells a lie is a P, but all Ps are liars, and I would rather err on the side of caution than to let anyone who is a liar into an intimate relationship with me of any kind. People who are dishonest and/or liars are not the kind of people I want to be involved with. People who treat other people rudely will eventually treat me rudely, people who lie or abuse others will lie to and abuse me in the end. Avoiding this kind of person will allow me to also avoid the Ps of this world.

It also makes the people I do love and who love me, doubly prescious. I also have no residual guilt about “deserting” my mother or my son. My son is a flamming P and my mother is a hard core enabler of him, who will lie, cheat and other things to protect him from the consequences of his behavior.

Life is much simpler and more pleasant with the Ps all OUT of my life. I think for the first time in my life, there is no pain and chaos, only a sense of peace.

This is a great topic. I wrote about something similiar on another thread when someone was talking about not being judgemental. I think it was on the thread about Internet Dating in the discussion about “Cuddle Parties.”

Here’s what I wrote… I am quoting myself. How tacky.

“We are being trained by our Culture… at least in the US, to be open and non-judgemental. We think if we reject something it means we are “judging” something and that reflects negatively on us. I found a definition of the word “judge.”

to judge: To form an opinion or estimation of after careful consideration”

Donna’s post drives this home with her discussion of the 2nd meaning of discrimination.

The thing is, my discrimination and judgement were on when I first met the Bad Man and I let him talk me out of it. I even talked myself out of it. In fact, when he first displayed a disturbing outburst, I recall that I said.. to myself and others… “Who am I to judge. I haven’t experienced the kind of losses he has and I am sure he is in more pain than I can imagine.” Wow! I was realy working hard for him. He didn’t have to make excuses. I made them for him!

I feel like I am so different from that person now. I look back at myself, a puppet, being controlled by a lunatic. Back then, I disconnected from all that I knew in my mnd and in my body. Why did I do that? I know the answer. That is why a sociopathic encounter is so life altering… if you have abandond YOU… it will bring you back to yourself. No one could save me from him but me.

As broken down as some of us feel, we have to acknowledge that we are still here and that something is holding us up. That something is the YOU that you weren’t listening to for so long. See how strong you really are?

Of course, that’s just my opinion. :o)

Lovely insights, Aloha, aboug being judgmental and the powerful statement, “No one could save me from him but me”.

Recovering from a Sociopath is all about taking back the power…taking back the “us”, the “me” …that we relinquished. We relinquished power to the Bad Men or BM (your terminology which is becoming popular, Aloha) because of the “Snapshots”, which never truly existed (except in our minds) and certainly do not exist anymore. Because nothing about the Bad Men is, or ever was, real. It was all imagery, an illusion, a magician’s magic, if you will, all a great and very elaborate play. My Sociopath used to say “life is a chess game”, and of course it is all about them winning. And winning at all costs, irregardless and in spite of any devastation left in their wake, and (sometimes) because they glory in the power, in the taking, in the figurative raping and pillaging of innocent victims.

I wouldn’t have wished this (S) experience on anyone, myself included. But I have found that it has been a journey of learning, insight, profound introspection, and a quest for what is the true meaning and purpose in life, or “quest”. I have read that we learn the most from difficult people…not only do we learn about them, but about ourselves.

And if life is a journey of learning, then it appears that we are all progressing nicely…we just had a couple of bumps in the road.

I think part of this “who am I to judge” or “who am I to discriminate” is part of what makes us “enablers” and allows us to not set and enforce appropriate boundaries.

I was taught “hospitality” as a way of life, but at the same time, it never dawned on me that when someone “mooched” off me I had every right to say “NO” to them.

I finally got to that point where I could set boundaries in some areas, but I didn’t apply them “universally” there were “blind spots” in my vision in which I did not set and enforce appropriate boundaries between being “hospitable” and being a “patsy.”

I felt the DISCOMFORT in my gut, but I didn’t know how to assert myself without thinking I might be “inappropriate” or “hurt someone’s feelings.” (again, another instance of NOT listening to my gut).

People who “knew” me at least superficially would have described me as “assertive” yet, how LITTLE they knew that inside me I was anything but “assertive”—I was constantly in a turmoil because I wanted to be “assertive” but I didn’t have the courage of conviction to actually STAND UP for myself in ALL aspects of my life, not just in a few.

When I read the letters that my P-son wrote to the Trojan Horse P advising him how to “manage me” (and I am so thankful that the TH-P saved them all and I got my hands on them after he went to jail) I saw myself through my P-son’s eyes and HE KNEW ME to the CORE. One of the things he said was “don’t worry about pi$$ing off Mom, grandma will take my side, she always does no matter what.” How right he was. He never worried about doing something that was wrong or mean to me, he knew my mother (enabler) would protect him and that I would always give in to her wishes no matter how wrong I thought they were.

What my P-son didn’t count on was that I had finally reached the “breaking point” where it was “get healthy or die” and I chose to live.

It is, as peggy put it so well, all about TAKING BACK YOUR POWER—I have taken back my power over ME. I realize that I gave HIM the power, I gave them ALL the power to control me for their desires just like I have total control over the dogs I train. And I was just as willing to give over my power to them as the dogs are to give their power and free will over to me, for an occasional crust of bread and a pat on the head….the only difference is that I ACTUALLY LOVE the dogs, and care for their well being and happiness. I may train them but I don’t abuse them.

And, one other difference, if I were to have an animal that was aggressive to the point that they were dangerous, I do know and am quite capable of doing what “needed to be done” and to put that animal “down.” Unfortunately the law doesn’t let us put a P “down,” we have to “catch and release” but at least we don’t have to keep on feediing them. LOL

Eyesewideshut-

You bring up good questions-

How to know…. I often have criticized women for being TOO picky, to a point I think they want a man to be super-human.I am married ( not to a psycho), have children and am the age where I see peers scrambling to find one before..tick/tock.

I do think some wanted “super man” — so what criteria do women use? I think it’s deciptively easy— unlike psychos who use mostly words, seduction and lies– real men back it up with action. My husband has always been there for me- even when what he said was not polished. I never was afraid to ask him for help or trust he’d follow through. Even when we had briefly broken up,he voluntarily helped me out financially because he knew I needed it. He just did it. He’s not perfect, was quite rough when I met him,but once he settled his own issues– he was good. He had a very dysfunctional upbringing to put it mildly- but once he got a handle on it,he has coped and thrived.

I think the key is action and time. But I do not think I need to be ever vigilant now, over 18 yrs.later, to his behavior….we need to, at a safe point, to reclaim trust or psychos win.

Peggy et al, So true all of your insights. When you take back yourself, what do you do with your past? The stage I am at is deconstructing what the past 29 years have been about, trying to figure out where I was, and how I stayed committed to enabling and excusing him for so long. Does anyone have something to say about what to do with your MEMORIES?

The good ones I mean, the times when you thought you were “together” and loved and happy and working for the same goals, loving your kids, all that. Where do you put all that good stuff after it has been crushed by the weight of his deceptions and manipulations? I guess I am talking about the time when I felt he was extraordianry and by extension I was very special too.

I won’t go back there, I am nearing a place of peace without him, but there is plenty of pain when I brush up against MY LIFE .
How do you file away that part of your life without being a ghost ?

Where do you put it?

My S was not as volatile as some, and between bouts of near manic activity,spending,moving,taking on huge new ventures, when he tired of this he would shut down on occassion for years. Be not present. Watch television. In between all this he would demonstrate huge acts of generosity, on myself and the kids. Anything we wanted. His public persona is one of a caring family man, a risk taker with steely resolve, a successful business man, steady as a rock, always even tempered, sometimes ruthless in business, but still seen, I believe by many, as honerable.

At present my friends are either dumbfounded as to why I would throw my marriage away, or think I am a spoiled crybaby. One couple has gotten close enough to see who he is, and have lent me their moral support, my daughter gets it because she is seperated from her N.

I am rambling but to get back to the point of this thread, surely we must discrimminate “within” a relationship as well, once it is underway, we must consider carefully and reach our judgements on an ongoing basis.

In my case, his kind acts and grandiose achievments, together with my love and strong committment to not DIVORCE papered over my ability or willingness to discern critically, all the outrageous crazy making behavior, the constant crisis making, the life or death struggle to exist, the total lack of humor or basic joy in life. I knew all that was missing, and sought it activly and often succesfully for myself and my kids, but gave him a big get out of jail free card, because he was “busy” “stressed” “bringing home the bacon” “preoccupied with business” “depressed about losing his career” “bored” etc. etc.

He was so self contained that most of the time I questioned myself and my sanity before his. Outsiders would certainly see me as the “crazy” one and him as the rock.

Zero tolerance for the abuse of trust is a very good motto. Had I lived by that I would have been out many years ago.

Peace and good healing to all, I so value this site and all of you insights.

Eyeswideshut:

I can relate to your questions about “what to do with the memories” and my Sociopath was like your statements, “he would demonstrate huge acts of generosity, on myself and the kids. Anything we wanted. His public persona is one of a caring family man, a risk taker with steely resolve, a successful business man, steady as a rock, always even tempered, sometimes ruthless in business, but still seen, I believe by many, as honorable.”

I also understand about the lack of humour, the boredom, the TV viewing or constantly being on the computer. My Sociopath rode a motorcycle without a helmet. He had an affair and lied about it. He had to have the “best” of everything…custom convertible, custom work truck, fancy furniture, silk shirts, Caribbean vacations, first class in Vegas.

My Sociopath stole from his family, friends, and business partners alike. There is no discrimination in this regard. They need constant stimulation, and don’t, I believe, really “think” regarding matters of the heart, or contemplate things or process or renuminate the way we do. I can guarantee he isn’t thinking about you. My sociopath would say, “done is done” and that sums it up. When they are gone, they are finished with you and on to the next.

Many people also still do not believe the things I have said about my Sociopath. Perhaps they never will. But the truth is the truth, and I believe that in time the truth will be evident. I believe my S will be in a federal prison within the next 2 years (money laundering, tax fraud, stealing from businesses). Also, these Sociopaths are very patterned, and he will repeat the same patterns with his next victim…

I agree with holywatersalt, who says “action and time”. These will help to heal you.

My memories (only 3 years worth) are also devastatingly painful. I believed him to be an honest, honest, generous, hardworking man of honesty and integrity. He was none of these. Everything was a facade…the calmness, the seeming coolness even in the face of adversity (his losing money from divorce, lawsuits)…of course, they are most upset when losing money, and happiest when getting money. It pains me to think that every time he said “I love you”, there was no love in his heart, only an agenda. He told his (former) best friends, “I don’t love her. It’s all about the money”. That really hurts, because I really DID love him, and trust him, and believed his acts of generosity were kindness, not just a “show”. Like the reference to the “cracked mirror” someone made on Lovefraud, it is SO TRUE. They want perfection, adoration, respect and trust mirrored back to them, EVEN THOUGH they don’t deserve it. They cannot tolerate questioning, truthseeking, and seeing them as the empty shells they really are.

I now know the truth. I have figured out the puzzle, and it is definitely eye-opening. The truth will set you free, as the saying goes. It can release you from the emotional bondage and emotional devastation. The truth is a starting point from which you can begin life anew.

Eyeswideshut, put your memories in a place of safekeeping … compartmentalized; in your mind, in a drawer, burn them in effigy in your mind…but put them away. Allow yourself only a small amount of time to reference them, until you don’t need them anymore as you build new ones.

Your memories, unfortunately, are of real events, but events that occurred with a person that was NOT real. Everything about the sociopath is pretend. Fake. Insincere. False.

There is tremendous personal growth that comes from this process. This is the time for YOU. The time for you to find your personal destiny, your personal path in life, a path of joy and enlightenment. A time of truth.

Zero tolerance for red flags.
Zero tolerance for liars.
Zero tolerance for manipulators.
Zero tolerance for abuse.

Eyeswideshut, this is a time of strength. YOUR strength. The strength, the courage, the loving, caring, nurturing, bright and shining goodness that has always been in YOU. This is YOUR time.

I wish you peace, happiness, and joy as you journey toward the place you wish to travel. Only YOU know where that journey will take you.

Peace…what a beautiful word
Peggy Pseu

Eyeswide shut,

What do you do with the memories? What do you do with the X number of years?

My primary P is my son, and he was the neatest kid in the world til he hit puberty. After that he turned into a P-monster. I am looking at haivng nothing but pain and hell on earth since about 1985. He has been in prison continually since he was 17 except for a few months he was out between episodes of felonies, his last one was murder.

I am NC with him, with my bright and shining star, my gifted, wonderful, charming, inventive, and socialable son…but I sort of feel like I lost that son to “death” when he was about 12 or 13. Prior to that he was wonderful, after that nothing but pain.

The MAN who animates the body is NOT my “son”not the son I loved and enjoyed, it is like my “son” is dead, the coffin lid closed, and he is buried. I have grieved over him for “lo, these many years.” But I have come to realize that the son I loved is GONE. He is NOT in this world.

I put away all the pictures of him after about 12 or 13, and as far as I am concerned, it is like after that time he is like the sci-fi movies where the evil alien takes over the body and does bad things, but the person that was “is no more.”

My husband died July of 04, and I miss the heck out of him,, but I have done with my grieving and now I can look back and enjoy all the wonderful times we had together. His photo is in my living room and I will always remember the night we took that photo. I don’t feel sad or bad when I look at it, and I don’t think about the tragedy of his death, it happened, but I dwell instead on the good things that we had before his death.

The same with my son I guess, I enjoy the memories of the funny things he said when he was a kid, his accomplishments and the great times we had. I’m not sad any more that he is also “dead” just like my husband is dead, it is just THE WAY THINGS ARE.

In a loving relationship I think that we are together because we love each other, not because we NEED each other, we need each other because we love each other. But each person in a healthy relationship should be able to go on if something happens to the other one. If I had been the one to die, I would have wanted my husband to go on with life and I knew he felt the same for me.

My son is “dead” and I am going to go on with my life. I can’t put him back to what he was before he “died” but I don’t have to spend the rest of my life trying to give the “corpse” CPR. I can’t help my son. I can’t implant a conscience into his soul, I cant remove the rage and malice. I can only go on with life.

I have finally, after all these years, done that.

There are people who don’t understand how I could “give up on my son” and frankly, it is because those people never were the victim of a P in any intimate relationship and they do not grasp the fact that there are some people who are EVIL.

For what it is worth, the way I handle it is to keep the good memories of the good times, and let the rest go. I’m not sure that would work for everyone, but it seems to be working for me.

I will not argue with a sociopath- I have a zero-tolerance policy. I will only say: You proved my point.

You profane God, the Blessed Virgin Mary and mock what it is absolutely going on with you. I note your play for pity and the grandiosity is stunning.

I pray for psychopaths and I will pray for you.

What you posted was just another confirmation, of what I know to depths of my soul…. I am sorry you are so afflicted.

I suggest you see an exorcist, just for fun- see what happens.

Findingmyeslf please read
http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2008/02/update-more-on-how-brains-get-different.html

I hope the Dr. addresses this here- it is interesting and very controversial.

There’s a lot of pseuedo -science involved.

http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2008/02/how-brains-get-different.html

That’s part one- she gets into the “brain differences.”

holywatersalt your post interests me. Your opinion that I am possessed by the devil is almost laughable. I am no more possessed by the devil then you are. I may be a sociopath and I may do bad things, some people call evil but I am far from being possessed by the devil. I can prove it when I gargle holy water, juggle three cross while balancing on one leg on top of a statue of the virgin marry. Don’t worry, I won’t catch on fire. I don’t feel any burning sensation while I walk through the church yard on my walk home every day. My head does not spin all the way around while I vomit green bile.

It is funny how in a society where we practice equal rights people can still get away with promoting discrimination. At the core of it every sociopath has something like a mental disorder (I’ll explain what it actually is as you read on). We are just the same as a schizophrenic in the way that we can not help our selfs. In the short run it appears we have some amount of control and cunning. We appear to have power and we look like we know what we are doing. We look like normal people doing bad things. If you actually take the time to understand what really motivates a sociopath you will begin to understand him. Over time you will see an uncontrollable trend to seek out power and at times this may indirectly involve hurting another human being. It is not the sociopaths fault that he does these things. He can no more help himself then the scorpion in the story of the scorpion and the frog. It is in his nature to do harm.

Does this give you the right to discriminate and shun the sociopath? No. We live in a society, thankfully where the weak are protected. Calling a sociopath weak may sound funny but as I have previously said a sociopath can not help himself. He needs power just as much as a diabetic needs their insulin. Unfortunately it is a bit more painful for others when a sociopath seeks out his medicine. It is more dangerous then insulin but he can not help that. He can not help the way he was born. Instead of lighting your torches and raising your pitchforks let people take time to understand sociopaths.

What I am saying is sociopaths can be productive members of society. After properly understanding them and using their natural tendencys to our advantage there is a place for them. There is a reason they exist. To address the religious arguments, God is the only one capable of creating life. Why would God create sociopaths if they were not for some purpose? Obviously he has a plan for the sociopath.

For the scientists. Why would sociopaths evolve? In the survival of the fittest the sociopath serves a purpose. You have to remember the human species evolved not only as an individual organism but a societal organism. Not long ago in evolutionary terms humans lived in small tribal groups. These groups averaged around 25 people. If you look at the numbers sociopaths occur on average as 4% of the population, or 1 in 25.

This incidence is not chance it developed to serve a purpose. If you look at the characteristic of the sociopath they are a natural leader. They may not be the most politically correct leader for modern times as as Mr. Spitzer has proven but remember human society has developed more rapidly then natural evolution can keep up with. What we value now in our advanced society was not necessarily what would help the group 10 million to 30 thousand years ago. The sociopath evolved to take power and control of the group and once power was relinquished by its members he would take care of the group even if it was only to benefit his own needs. He would do the dirty work without remorse or conscious. His efforts were needed for the groups best efforts but could not easily done by the average remorse feeling human. He would without remorse outcast plagued group members and get rid of the sick offspring that would not be productive group members. It wasn’t a nice thing to do but was best for the group. He would instinctively seek out weakness for the good of the group, for the good of himself.

I am not saying any of what a sociopath is meets any purpose today because it doesn’t. I am just saying the sociopath isn’t exactly an illness. It is just something that as a society we not longer need, as much. Almost like your gall bladder but in a societal sense. If you need proof of what I am saying. Look at how many corporate and national leaders have strong sociopathic traits. These traits put you in top jobs because these leaders do the work that “ethical leaders” will not do. They will chop down an ancient forest to make the company some money, to benefit the company. Something an “ethical leader” may not do.

With all that said I realize you have been affected negatively by a sociopath and can not see what real purpose anything he did to you served, like cheating on you with 10 other women, or lying to your face for years and years, or trying to give you aids. These individual acts didn’t serve a purpose (except to give him the power he desires). You can’t look at the acts of a sociopath up close. You need to step back to see the full picture. I am suggesting the traits that caused these acts to happen are beneficial when applied differently. In current society sociopaths have no way to constructively express themselves. They have no way to do what they biologically need to do so it often times comes out in negative ways.

They try to conform to the norm of society by seeking out a paired relationship. This doesn’t work for them because they didn’t evolve like the rest of the group. They evolved as the leaders to the group which entitled them to dominate all group members. This is why you may notice sociopaths are often times not discriminatory on sexual partners. They aren’t having sex for normal purposes. They are having sex to dominate. Often times this means dominating males as well as females. You can see male chimpanzees using sex to dominate other males. This doesn’t make them gay. Normal definitions of sexual preferences like heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual do not apply because the are not having sex to satisfy sexual needs. It is power needs.

We as a society have a right to find a productive place for sociopaths (jail isn’t an option) because of all they have done for us as a species. Without the sociopath to take out the trash we would most likely not be here. You would probably find the Neanderthals would have taken our place. Sociopaths gave our species the edge it needed to place us as the dominant species of the plant.

Cheers,
Mr. Green

I have been greatly hurt and knocked low by a Sociopath as well, but I do see a point in what he is saying. I dont believe a Sociopath asks to be afflicted with all their tendencies. I do believe it is a mental and physical difference in the brain, such as other states of mind are.

My ex husband was ADD. It is a disfunction in the brain where basically like a train, all the cars are not connected to each other. There are pictures of brain activity showing actual physical misses occuring. He was forgetful, irritable, depressed, scatterbrained, and easily distracted, unfocused and I could go on and on. He hurt me at times with his forgetfulness, he drove me crazy at times with his scatterbrained ways.. but he was unable to control it. Medication only takes the edge off, but he will forever live as an adult with ADD.

I think of the Sociopath in much the same manner. Sure, there are times they make terrible choices and they could choose otherwise, but their whole thought process is different than normal. We hold them accountable to be and act as people with brains like ours, but they do not have that same thinking ability. They are often highly intelligent – but their measurement of human and social relations are unmatched to ours.

And for those here that are spiritual, I believe we can horribly dislike what they do, we can stay clear of them, we can warn or educate others, but we cannot hate. We can pity them in the way they do not live their lives in a manner that respects others. We can pray for them not in a hateful way but in a forgiving and educated way that hopefully would bring some sort of peace to oneself and also bring to them whatever God would do for their situation, I dont know, but God knows the whole picture.

As for Mr Green, I do find some appreciation in the fact that he seems to have some understanding of himself. He doesnt claim that it can be fixed but at least he has a sense of what he is all about. That’s more than most Sociopaths choose to do, some self analysis and admittance to the fact that there is a difference in themselves.

Peggy- I found a tshirt at Big Dogs that reads,”It’s better to have loved and lost than to spend the rest of your life with a psychopath.” It’s my “Sunday” shirt.. I like to wear it running errands so lots of people get to enjoy- I mean, see it!

Thank you holywatersalt for the links. Its point as I read it is
“What if this is true? What if the brain differences in psychopaths are just the tracks left behind of their own willfully twisted thinking?”

Their habits create their brain to become different.

Yes, the articles have a very valid point. I dont think its all black and white, thats for sure. We all know that eating and dieting for instance is a physical need mixed with a habitual want. We can choose to act from “need” or “want”.

As for my S, and his want for women ~ I hoped he would have little empathy for what he was doing to me by cheating, whether it comes from brain malfunction or pure wants. It felt to me that he could have chosen not to cheat – in order to protect what we had together. But maybe his brain doesnt know how to care enough. I dont think there is any explaination – thats why its psychopathic, sociopathic… mentally ill .. I dont know.

Finding myselfagian,

I am somewhat ADHD, and my “good” son (non-P) son is ADHD, moreso than I am, and that too is hereditary.

However, when I raised my son, I did not put him on drugs, I investigated the drugs, side effects, etc. and I modified his environment so that he was successful in school (private and home schooling combo) He has finished college and works and has success in his chosen field.

I did not allow him to use his ADHD as a “crutch” and say “what can you expect out of me, I have a problem” I expected him to act in a civil and socially acceptible manner even though he was VERY distractable. It wasn’t as if he didn’t have any control over his behavior. He had to exercise MORE self control than most kids, but he was able to do so. Just as I was when I was growing up.

I have worked with the parents of ADHD kids who would call my office frantic because little Johnny threw a chair at the teacher and they wanted me to write an excuse to the school that this was okay because “what can you expect, he has ADHD?” I would tell them the same thing I told my son, that his behavior would be socially acceptible and that he would not be violent.

Some parents want a “pill” that will make little Johnny behave and unfortunately, it also takes parental involvement with children with special needs, of any kind.

With proper parental support children with terrible disabilities mental, emotional, and physical can become happy, productive and well adjusted adults.

I realize there are some “chemical” differences in the brains that requires medication. I take antidepressant medication myself and don’t function well without it. Haven’t since my husband was killed in July 2004. I may have to take it the rest of my life, but I also work very hard at taking care of myself in other ways as well as the “pill”–medication alone is not the answer for me, and wasn’t for my ADHD son.

My son does not take medication to this day for his ADHD and I still see some “signs” of it from time to time, but his career requires very strict attention to detail and somehow he manages to do someting that I would never have beleived possible for ANY ADHD kid to concentrate to that extent. He loves it and is good at his job.

In my opinion, Ps KNOW the difference of right and wrong, but they just don’t CARE. Yes, their brain chemicals and pathways are “different” and so are mhy ADHD son’s, but even with that difference, they still have the ability to CHOOSE how they behave.

Just as I obey laws that I may not agree with, or even think are “wrong”—just as I choose to pay my taxes because I fear the IRS’s power, I choose to do these things even though I don’t want to. I belive that the Ps also have the power to choose their behavior, I think they choose to dowhat they do because it “feels good” just as an addict gets a fix even though he knows there will be penalties tomorrow. He just doesn’t CARE, he is in for the NOW fix, and worry about tomorrow when it comes.

My ADHD son has impulse control because I taught him impulse control. He manages his finances well, shows up early for work every day and lives a responsible life. My P son who has really little problem with impulse control—he is able to control his impulses, but he conives and plots and plans and schemes and takes what he wants when he wants it, not “impulsively” but DELIBERATELY. He doesn’t do things impulsively. If he wanted to rob a liquor store and had no control over his impulses if he drove up and there were cops there he would rob it anyway, but because he CAN control his impulses he would drive on by and pick another place to rob.

He was taught, just like my ADHD son, to delay gratification, to control impulsive behavior by examining what the results of that behavior would be. Both were taught right from wrong. One chose one path, another chose another. Both had genetic disabilities (don’t we all!) but one became a criminal and murderer and the other became a kind and caring man, if a bit hyperactive.

I am an animal trainer and I have seen the range of “emotions” and “attitudes” in various breeds of dogs and other animals. Some are more aggressive than others, but in many (not all) cases the domestic breed of animal can be socialized to be reasonably safe no matter what breed it is.

I think in many cases it is the same way with Ps, I think just like the alcoholic who has the gene for alcoholism, he CAN choose not to drink, and the psychoplath could choose not to abuse–but it is just too much fun for them, and hang the consequences, they are someone else’s fault.

I know I don’t have all the answers to “why” my son is what he is, and I don’t think that I am “at fault” because he didn’t have every chance that a caring parent can give a child. The biggest thing I think Idid wrong was to not walk out of the police station when he was 17 and leave him there.

My husband and I went to get him when we had turned him in for robbing our friend’s business and shutting them down completely. When the officer brought him in, he looked at us and said, “What the FV

The zero tolerance policy is good in the real world but I can’t do anything to you on here can I?

“You profane God, the Blessed Virgin Mary and mock what it is absolutely going on with you. I note your play for pity and the grandiosity is stunning.”

I think if anybody has a right to mock me it would be myself. I’m do enjoy pity but I’m not looking for any of that here. As for the virgin mary, if she doesn’t have a sense of humor about herself then god help us all. There is nothing more hilarious then getting knocked up without the sex. You cut out the best part!

“I pray for psychopaths and I will pray for you.”

Please don’t pray for me, that would imply I’ve got a problem. I’d rather you prey on me. At least I’d understand you.

“I suggest you see an exorcist, just for fun- see what happens.”

I Know what would happen if we… sorry… I saw an exorcist. We would have a little chat, sit down to a cup-o tea and talk about the good ol’ days.

My post somehow got cut off–the last part was that when we gwent to get him at the police station that evening, he said “what the Fv

Mr. Green,
I’m sure you’d be the first to admit that the first post is pure BS.

Holywatersalt, I hope you don’t get offended by the idiotic things he says in the second one, he is using this blog to get his kicks. I think going NC with him might be the best option!

FOR ME I FEEL I WAS TOO OPEN AND TRUSTING. I LET HIM TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ME. I HAD NO CLEAR VISION OF WHO HE WAS OR WHAT HE WAS. I ALSO WOULD LET HIM STEP WAY OVER BY BORDERS. NOW I DON’T DO THAT ANYMORE. I WAS ALWAYS TAUGHT TO GIVE PEOPLE THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT, NO MORE. THEY ABSOLUTLY HAVE TO PROVE THEMSELVES TO ME. IF A RED FLAG GOES UP OR I GET A BAD FEELING I BACK OFF AND AWAY IMMEDIATLY. IT’S CALLED SURVIVAL.
MY BAD MAN IS STAULKING ME NOW AND BELIEVE ME I HAVE DONE EVERYTHING POSSIBLE FOR SECURITY.
HE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT HE CAN GET AWAY WITH. BUT SO DO I AND IF HE STEPS FOOT IN MY HOME I WILL PROTECT MYSELF WITH DEADLY FORCE. I HAVE MADE MY PEACE WITH THIS WHOLE ORDEAL. HE IS SICK AND I AM TIRED OF BEING A VICTIM.
I REALLY FEEL THIS WEBSITE HAS GIVEN ME THE INFO AND HELPED ME FIND MY BACKBONE AGAIN.
THANK YOU EVERYONE.

OH AND MR GREEN NEEDS TO GO BACK TO THE STONE AGE IF HE WOULD LIKE TO BE A CAVEMAN. THIS IS THE YEAR 2008, PLEASE EVOLVE! I’M SO TIRED OF MEN MAKE EXCUSES SAYING THEY ARE THE WAY THEY ARE. I HAVE MET MANY MEN THAT ARE GOOD DESCENT HUMAN BEINGS. THEY AREN’T AGGRESSIVE OR ABUSIVE AND STILL MANAGE TO LIVE A VERY HAPPY LIFE. GROW UP! WE AS A SOCIETY DON’T NEED OR WANT MEN LIKE YOU ANYMORE.

Adriane,

Thanks, I knew it when I posted. Thanks for your reply.

Ariadne my first post was far from BS I believe in what I’m saying. I did not post it to justify what your “bad men” have done to you. I am not defending them. I am giving you an explanation as best I see it.

I do get a mild thrill out of posting but no more then anybody else. It’s therapeutic. I’m not taunting you. I would enjoy an intellectual conversation instead of just bashing sociopaths. Bashing does not help you recover. I have learned that the best way to get over a problem is to understand it. Maybe your sociopaths could take a page out of my book and learn something from me.

As for Showbirdz. I do not want to be a cave man but everybody on this planet still has the same basic genes that humans had over 30 thousand years ago, it’s not just me. I can be no more evolved then you are.

I do agree, there are many descent men out there. Unfortunately I was born without all of the same options as they have. My brain works different. You may think I am a bad person for not caring about others but nobody around me would notice I am that different. I have taken to understanding myself and I try to vent my needs on more productive forms. I am not suggesting I am 100% good, but nobody is.

As a society you may not want us but unfortunately you are stuck with us and have to deal with it. We aren’t going to off ourselves just because somebody doesn’t like us.

In case you would like to know if I had an option to go back in time and be a cave man I think I would choose it. Life would be a lot easier if I could just be myself.

While everyone is at it I will recommend taking a chill pill. I’m not here to do to you what you sociopath did to you. I don’t need you to get my thrills. I am just here to help myself.

Cheers

Mr. Green is probably not a psychopath; he’s either a kid getting kicks or a very sick person not too different from the psychotics who believe they are Napoleon or Jesus. Ignore him.

Showbirdz,

It’s true that we are always taught to give people the benefit of the doubt and it’s a little sad that we have to give up that way of thinking for a few bad apples. But as all of us know here, it is a small price to pay to ensure our own safety and sanity.

Good for you that you left and learned from the experience, however painful. It’s good that you are not underestimating him and are looking out for your own security. This sounds bad, but hopefully he’ll find another victim soon so you can be left in peace. That’s all we can hope for with those kind of people.

I never post because everyone always says things so well – I would just be repeating. This time I will add my 2 cents worth. I agree with everyone. I was completely devastated when I finally put 2 and 2 together and realized I had been conned by a S. After taking some deep breaths, I had to focus on what “I” had to do to to get out of this mess, financially and emotionally. Even when everyone said to “get over it” and you are “obsessing”, I knew what “I” had to do, since this was all about me and my survival. Yes, yes, yes – knowledge is SO powerful. At first I kept saying, how could someone, anyone, do this to me or anyone else. I had loved this person and had given my all. And yes, there were many red flags – explained away. As I started reading about S and N the light bulb went on. These authors must have been sitting on my shoulder (and apparently all of yours) because everything they were saying was what I had experienced or had said aqbout the experience. SCARY!! Now I can say my S is genetically wired this way, and he does what he does, because this is the way he is. He is this way past, present, and future. In fact I bet I can predict what he is going with his current victim. I feel better because I know that his behavior had nothing to do with me. He will do this with anyone, because that is what he does. I feel now I am an expert on the subject and would get an A plus in psychology 101.
I also had to find a positive from this bad experience. People come into our lives for a reason. The resaon my S came into my life was to make me learn about myself. He taught me that I should not where my heart on my sleeve – it can be broken. He taught me that I should act on my intuition, not my heart – intuition knows best. He taught me that if someone cannot afford to pay for something, don’t offer to help – it will come back to bite you. He taught me that I was naive about men and they don’t always have your best interest at heart and they cannot always be trusted. He taught me that when forced to do so, I can stand up and take control of my life. Everything I have had to do in the last 2 years to survive and put my life back in order, I have done on my own. It looked very overwhelming at the beginning, but I have taken each day at a time and handled each situation presented to me, one at a time. And guess what? I have not only survived, but succeeded; and I have a great sense of satisfaction for a job well done. I will be okay. I also have learned how and why I fell into his trap, and how you can be emotionally abused – and not know it (from younger days).
I have not had to worry about NC, because since I have outted him and stirred the pot in Bellingham and “blown up his life”, he is attempting to get rid of me. Because of our entanglement in the court system, I am not going away as easy as he would wish. In his reality, I am the psycho b***h from Chicago. Patience is not my forte, but it has paid off. After 2 years of waiting, my story will be told in bankruptcy court. His life, and our story is so convoluted; but I have worked very hard to untangle the web. I can only hope the court will hear me.
I thank everyone for your posts. It has helped me cope and know that no way am I alone. Yes, he is the lie. The memories are no longer painful. I am learning to love myself. Will I ever trust another man? I’m not out looking – if it is meant to be, he is going to drop into my lap. lol But here is what I am afraid of – I want somebody like the S I was in love with, minus the S. Is this possible?
Hang in there everybody! There is light at the end of the tunnel! I hear all of you!!
It is better to forgive and forget – Then remember and resent.
Foregiveness heals the heart – Time heals the scar.

I assure you Laura I am very much a sociopath, although I may also be Jesus…

Dismissing a sociopath as a psychotic is a very dangerous thing. Never under estimate the dangers of the ones without conscience. Glad we are all safe behind out computer screens.

Hope you are all learning something. I know I am.

EMJ170ORD:

I commend your courage, your commitment to a happy life, and your positivism! I love your statement, “Foregiveness heals the heart – Time heals the scar.”

“Life would be a lot easier if I could just be myself.”

But, Mr. Green – you just spent a great deal of time and effort telling all of this forum that you are yourself. Now you say life would be easier if you could just be yourself. Aren’t you hardwired, biology, so forth and so on, no more or less yourself than anyone else?

Am not attempting to poke the bear through the bars. Am just wondering why the contradiction.

Maybe did you mean “life would be a lot easier if you could like or love yourself? Because self-loathing is at the core of N’s and S’paths. It’s what creates the false self in the first place, and it stems from very early malfunctioning of some sort.

Some schools of thought believe the S/P/N doesn’t really know his true “self” at all. That’s how long he/she has been living under the guise of a false self. But I tend not to believe that; mine knew he was a lying phony whose character and ethics shifted with whatever company he kept at any given time. He also knew he enjoyed mind games and viewed everything as win or lose…at others’ expense, it was all win or lose.

I think they’re plain old evil. Mundane, banal…evil.

Mr Green, your point of view fascinates me, you are obviously a very intelligent man, and your contribution to the subject is an insight, however do you see yourself as the preditor or the victim, if there was help at hand would you accept it. I think the problem is that the majority people contributing to this site are without doubt victims trying to prepare themselves for the future and avoid falling into the trap again. The damage that our experiences has done to us has made us mistrusting, not only of external influences but also makes us doubt oursleves. I guess I am fortunate the person I got involved with has not left me financially inadequate but not being a particulary materialistic person that is cold comfort. I guess in a nutshell I can pay back whatever he has given me materially, but he can never pay back what I have allowed him to take from me emotionally, and why would he, lack of conscience is one of the symptoms . Could it be that his dangerous manipulation has created a different person in me, would he be wary if he thought of me of challenging, does he really feel that powerful, he finally realises that he has been exposed, what emotion could this stir, but he must also realise that I am not without power myself, he may be a man of intelligence and wealth but he obviously isn’t that bright, however I also now realise that he feeds on meals which feed his ego, unfortunately age catches up with us and he won’t be able to continue forever. Yes I am concerned for him because loneliness is not something I would wish on anyone, this is all like a snake biting its own tail although I am confused as to who the snake is? I am asking you these questions to get answers from a self confessed sociopath. You are learning something, educate us further, what is that you feel and … why?

LilOrphan I like your attempts to trip me up reminds me a bit of what I would do. I don’t recall telling anybody that I act like myself. In actuality I spend a great deal of time just preventing myself from doing or saying the things i would like to. I certainly do not act anything like my true self, not that anybody does but if you knew me you would be surprised at how different I am on the inside from my outside appearance.

I think human hardwiring is often times decided against in choice of the more acceptable alternative. Animals can not choose to do anything different then what is in their nature but humans have the ability to make a choice. Impulse control in sociopaths is a great deal more difficult then your average person. We find it more difficult to go against our hardwiring and to do pro-social activities. It has been with great difficulty for me to avoid run ins with the law but so far I’ve made it. Sociopaths also have a great deal more impulses to do bad things then the average person so to go against all of these things is very unnatural for a sociopath.

“Maybe did you mean “life would be a lot easier if you could like or love yourself? Because self-loathing is at the core of N’s and S’paths. It’s what creates the false self in the first place, and it stems from very early malfunctioning of some sort.”

But I do like myself! In fact I think the only one I am capable of loving is myself! If you are referring to the mask I have created when you speak about my false sense of self it is not because of self-loathing. I create this mask as protection of myself some of it consciously, some of it not. I learned a long time ago that you get more flies with honey then you do with vinegar. I use to be pure vinegar and it just wasn’t working. I had to sweeten myself up.

I agree with you when you suggest I do not know my true self. I have covered it up for so long that I don’t know what I would do if I lost my mask suddenly. I know I am a lying phony but that lying is the false self. We lie to cover up our true self and true actions and motivations.

v.abraded I am a predator and a victim. Yes, it is just like a sociopath to give you an answer that doesn’t make any sense but let me explain. I have predatory urges and desires. I require power and control. I did not choose this predatory life though, I have no more ability to escape then a wolf. I can rationalize it and explain. I can look at myself from an outside perspective. You may reason that if I have the ability to look at myself from this perspective I should be able to control it. I can’t. I know the things I do are wrong but I really can’t help but do them. I do take the time to understand myself. That is much more then most sociopaths. This gives me some amount of control but I must always stay self aware and conscious of my actions. This is difficult because we are creatures of impulse.

I am the victim because I realize it would be easier to be a regular human or easier to be myself. Neither of these options are possible for me so I am forced to live my life differently then my nature tells me I should live. You may say that is just tough shit but nobody is denied their nature to the extent that I am. Most people have the ability to get married and live their lives for the most part how they want. They are not stopped from fulfill their lives dreams. Even homosexuals can get married in certain parts of the country. I don’t want what everybody else wants and I am denied the ability to meet my wants.

If their was help at hand would I accept it? I have been offered help. I have accepted some help but not for the same reasons that you may want me to get help for. I realize that it is in my best interest to live within the confines of the law. I can still get what I want without breaking the law or even screwing women like you over. Screwing over women has never been the thing that has done it for me anyway. I can never grow a conscience or empathy but in todays world you don’t need that. You just have to fake it well enough.

My feelings are actually very privative I will admit. I didn’t like that explanation when I was first told it but I think it is accurate. When compared to another human you could consider my emotions to be defective but I don’t like to think of myself as comparable to a regular human. I am different. I like to think of myself as a subspecies or subcaste of human even if it is technically not proven. On the outside I look human but I am motivated differently then other humans on the inside. Love and empathy are not part of my equation. When those are taken away you will find that any action is performed for a selfish reason. Power and control become the motivating factors and they grow to fill up and take the place that love and empathy normally fill.

I’ll let everybody in on a secret. I had a negative encounter with a fellow sociopath in the past just like everybody here has. My best friend was a sociopath but unfortunately neither one of us payed close enough attention to the other to realize the underlying sociopath in each of us. We got along greatly because when you pair up two fake people there is no conflict. We used each other and we both knew it but we were still both attempting to get the upper hand. It was a constant struggle of charm and false emotion. We both played our best sympathy games and all the regular stuff but we failed to realize it wouldn’t work on each other. After a while I gained the upper hand and then then left the game on top. It has been a year since our “friendship” ended and we can clearly see who we both are from a distance now but we can’t team up under the truth. We have taken up different camps in opposing social groups and it wouldn’t be in our best interest to pair up.

So if you think I don’t know what it is like to be on the other end of a sociopaths game you are incorrect. Although I didn’t feel the hurt of the incident I have observed what a sociopath does as a victim.

cheers

Mr Green your comments are interesting, you really think that you succeed in ‘screwing women’ over like us, infact you haven’t the women on this site have recognised sociopathic traits, although I admit to our detriment, in turn it has made us stronger human beings. Your run in with your fellow sociopath you say he was a sociopath how did you know or was it just supposition.. did they change/ You say you got the upper hand are you sure?

I’m sorry but I don’t succeed in screwing any women over. That just isn’t my thing. I don’t get anything from it. I am faithful to my women. I have other things to get my kicks from. I may lie about my true nature but that is required to live in this society.

I recognize the traits of myself in him. He has a hollow glare and a smile that is perfectly practice, like mine. His charm is sickening. He is good at pitting people against each other by indirect manipulation. The evidence against him is tremendous. I actually outed him to some of my friends and helped them see how dangerous he was. Kind of ironic isn’t it? It’s funny because I actually used this site to help them along with their understanding. I gave them a point by point example of how he directly fits the profile of a sociopath. Once spoon feed all the facts they realized who he was. And I looked like the good guy.

I am confident in my mask that they would not recognize his traits in me. I am less obvious I think. I am actually shocked that I did not recognize him in the first place but when he found me I was at a point where I looked weak to him and I was at a very low power point in my life. I must have played the victim really well at that point because he didn’t recognize me either. It took a while to get myself back to normal because he held me under but when I was able to come up for air I was back in full swing and he became very obvious. That’s when I pulled the switch on him and sent him through hell and back for taking advantage of me.

I don’t recommend fighting back against a sociopath unless you are capable of playing the same games as him and I’m sure you can’t because you are not a sociopath. I wrecked his life pretty good for a while to teach him a lesson. I don’t know if a sociopath can get depressed but I would say I put him close to it. I also took his job after it was all done. I’m now in the process of having him run out of town just for fun. I think I have found a very productive means of getting my kicks. It’s much more fun to hunt bigger and badder prey.

cheers,

Hahaha That’s great! If only sociopaths would only prey on each other the world would be a much better place!

First, Mr. Green , I’m not trying to “trip you up.” I was referencing your earlier post, where you said: “It is not the sociopaths fault that he does these things. He can no more help himself then the scorpion in the story of the scorpion and the frog. It is in his nature to do harm

So, you were saying that you are a sociopath and your nature is to do harm and it is not your fault when you do harm, because you are “acting on your nature.”

Is that not the essence of a person “being himself” – without fear of reprisal, consequence, concern for ethics or others’ emotions, and without empathy?

The acts you describe against the other you labeled a sociopath are, as you said, sociopathic. They are the true self, in your case, and you acted upon them. You were being yourself – whether society liked it or not.

What is the “false mask” you wear, if not one that covers those deceptive, hurtful practices and power desires from the rest of the world? And when you act upon them, are you not then “being yourself?”

It helps to have a better understanding of what motivates S’paths. Many of us are magnets for them; it took some of us YEARS to realize that the person we loved was so damaged and disordered and it’s taking some of us years to get over that love we felt.

Sometimes information helps expedite that process.

Besides, the “partners” of S and P types are usually the flip side of the coin: overly worried about others feelings. Overly cautious against hurting others. Overly kind. Talking with an Spath honestly about their thoughts is like learning about an entirely different species, to some of us.

Do any of you remember the old riddle about meeting the two men. One always told t he truth and one always told lies?

Of course if you asked either of them if they were the liar the truthful man would say no, and the liar would also say no. So you had to figure out how to tell which was which?

The thing is that to me talking to a sociopath and asking him any question, about why you do what you do, what do you think, etc. is to believe that even if they could tell you the truth that they would lie.

How can you get an “honest” answer from someone who has no reason to tell you the truth? How can you know what someone things when every thing about what makes them what they are goes against the grain of giving you the truth?

I can remember wanting so bad to know why my Ps did what they did, but I realized eventually that they could not would not ever be honest with me. I’m not sure that they could or would be honest with themselves.

I think maybe it is like asking someone what it feels like to “be blonde” or “be burnette”—I don’t know what it “feels like” because I’ve always been a blonde or whatever. I don’t know how it feels NOT to be what I am. How does a blonde feel different from a brunette? Do they feel different inside?

I can’t tell you how it feels to have a conscience becsause I’ve always had one, I don’t know how it feels not to have one. I can’t compare the two, because I’ve only been one kind.

I can observe how people without a conscience behave, but I can’t know how they feel or why they feel the way they do. I can observe how my dog acts, but not how he thinks or feels about himself, if he even is aware of himself.

I personally think that trying to get a straight and/or understandable answer from a psychopath (admitted or not) is a lost cause…to me like trying to find out which of the two men is the one that always lies and which is the o ne that always tells the truth.

“The acts you describe against the other you labeled a sociopath are, as you said, sociopathic. They are the true self, in your case, and you acted upon them. You were being yourself – whether society liked it or not.”

I think I understand where I have you confused. Yes I was being sociopathic and being my self momentarily. You are correct in that these actions are who I am. I think where I have you confused is the appreciation of how much more I could be me. If I would take off my mask. I would avoid life’s pleasantries that you people with a conscience like. I wouldn’t smile I wouldn’t be nice. I wouldn’t perform any of these social lies that I use to get from point to point. There would be no please and thank-yous. There would be no “How are you today? Fine? Oh thats Nice. Have a nice day” None of that bullshit. I would become absolutely brutal. If somebody got in my way I would move them. None of this cellphone shit in restaurants. The cell user would find it firmly lodged up their anal cavity. I’d take what I want, when I want. I am avoiding anything criminal in this description but be assured I would have no regard for the law. Since that doesn’t work in this society I am actually quite a pleasant person to meet. You’d like me. I’m quite helpful. I’d hold the door open for you and everything.

The false mask that I wear is the image of anormal and pleasant person. I do the things people like. I am a gentleman. Have you ever been stuck at a stop sign and the traffic just wouldn’t let you out? I’m the guy who stops and waves you out with a smile and a nod. I’m the guy who helps you pick up your change if you drop it at the checkout, and I won’t keep any of it. At the grocery store if I’m in front of you with a lot of things and you only have a couple items I’ll let you go ahead of me in line. That is the false mask I’m talking about. I could give a shit about being nice but I know it gets me through life with ease and allows me to do what I want in private without people calling me a monster.

There is a special type of woman out there that does scream victim to a sociopath. I’m not trying to be rude or put you down, I could do that in a less direct means if I wanted. It is difficult to cover up that beacon you carry everywhere you go. I can’t tell you exactly why I am attracted to this type of women but I consistently find myself with them. Even putting up a false strong front is a beacon that I can see through. These false strong fronts are actually even bigger indications of the right type of women. It says I have been affected in the past and I’m vulnerable. I don’t know if sociopaths consciously seek out this type of women, I just think it is a natural subconscious attraction. A wolf likes to eat meat, vegetables don’t do anything for it. To me most other women are broccoli but there are a few women who are filet mignon, best of the best. I guess it is a compliment sort of.

Just because sociopaths are attracted to a special type of women and a lot of them abuse and use them does not mean I do that to my women. I don’t get my kicks that way, too easy. I treat my girlfriend like a princess. Having her makes me look good and I reward her for the privilege of being with her. She makes me look normal. Don’t feel bad for her she doesn’t know what I am. Ignorance is bliss. She likes what she’s found and I like what I’ve found. I plan on keeping her. She has found the love of her life and as far as she is concerned so have I.

You wouldn’t have had your problem if you had found me first, but unfortunately I’m taken. You would hardly know the word sociopath except for the bad guys in movies. It is a pitty they all can’t be as aware as I am. I’m sure most of them don’t even realize they are a sociopath. They just think they are different.

I’m not trying to ruffle feathers but I do feel a bit like a fox in the hen house. Ignore my narcissism and see through it for my real advice.

Cheers,

“The thing is that to me talking to a sociopath and asking him any question, about why you do what you do, what do you think, etc. is to believe that even if they could tell you the truth that they would lie.”

I would hope that my answer would only reinforce what you already know about sociopaths. I would hope that you would have some sort of understanding as to how they think having been with one who gave enough away about himself that you have landed yourself here. I always make sure I understand how peoples brains tick is it only my assumption that others can do that too? Maybe that is just part of being a sociopath that I can’t understand about being human. Besides, why would I lie when it is so much more fun to tell the truth and see you react to it. I think it the case of a sociopath the truth is worse then fiction?

“How can you get an “honest” answer from someone who has no reason to tell you the truth? How can you know what someone things when every thing about what makes them what they are goes against the grain of giving you the truth?”

I’d lie to you about who I am, what I do, my age my name, my occupation but why would I lie about my thought process? The only reason I lie is for protection and kicks. I can get more kicks out of telling the truth. Plus you need to look at the vain side of sociopaths. We like to talk about ourselves. We like to flatter ourselves.

“I can remember wanting so bad to know why my Ps did what they did, but I realized eventually that they could not would not ever be honest with me. I’m not sure that they could or would be honest with themselves.”

I’d lie to my friends, family, and people in the real world but why lie to a screen name? To me all you are is a funny screen name and a few paragraphs. I need more then that to waste my time thinking up a lie.

“I think maybe it is like asking someone what it feels like to “be blonde” or “be burnette—”I don’t know what it “feels like” because I’ve always been a blonde or whatever. I don’t know how it feels NOT to be what I am. How does a blonde feel different from a brunette? Do they feel different inside?”

Dye your hair and find out…

“I can’t tell you how it feels to have a conscience becsause I’ve always had one, I don’t know how it feels not to have one. I can’t compare the two, because I’ve only been one kind.”

Here is an activity to feel what it is like to not have a conscience.
Get out your fly swatter and go swat a fly. Do you feel an remorse squishing it? It’s just a fly, it has no feelings or brain. It doesn’t matter, it was actually a pest. You may have feelings and a brain but without a conscience squishing you wouldn’t make me feel bad. Crying baby, buzzing fly same thing. Only thing that stops us is the law. I don’t like to break the law, gets you in trouble.

“I personally think that trying to get a straight and/or understandable answer from a psychopath (admitted or not) is a lost cause”to me like trying to find out which of the two men is the one that always lies and which is the one that always tells the truth.”

It is hard to get a straight answer because for some of the questions it is difficult to give an answer. Some of the questions are hard because they require a great deal of self reflection and insight. I don’t believe most sociopaths do much self reflecting. The fact that all of the sociopaths on this blog have been caught does not say much for the sociopath at hand. It proves they may not have the mental fortitude to deal with questions that require them to think. Sociopaths like to run on instinct too often to give you the answers you seek.

Cheers

To eyeswideshut re: your post on March 17th,

I haven’t finished reading this thread but I wanted to answer your question about what to do with the memories. I do not have the same history as you but I would say… maybe.. focus on you in those memories and on your children. If you were being authentic in those moments then keep that as your memory and never mind if your Bad Man was a big fat fraud.

Looking back at myself with the Bad Man and my most electified moments or even a few sweet memories… I feel kind of silly looking back at myself but still, I loved and I was loving and I had fun doing things with the BM even if he was a big jerk… I lived in Maui even if it was a nightmare.. I still did it and he can’t take that away from me. Don’t let your BM take away your memories of Christmas or anything you cherished with you family and your children.. keep it all.. just blot out him. :o)

I wonder how that might work?

Mr Green without sounding patronising I would like to thank you for your postings your frank although sometimes confusing blog has been an insight. Yes there are a million and one questions we could ask you, whether we would get straight answers is another question, a labyrinth of mind games.

What alohatraveler has asked you is a poignant question, I guess her memories are hers alone, unfortunately we cannot change our emotions because we have loved our B/M but on my part for my sanity I have to keep these emotions to myself. We all know that emotion is a thing that sociopaths cannot possess, and no you don’t give straight answers, when you are with your woman what do you think, what do you tell her, do you tell her you love her, she’s the most beautiful woman in the world, do you scheme, or are you a snake in a suit?

Having exposed my B/M of 13 years he has now gone to ground he is scared because I he knows I have found out so much about him and it may hamper his next move he is quite a well known business man.

The first week I was bereft and now having read all you have to say all I have in my mind is to move on, not forget him because for me everything was heartfelt and he played an enormous part in my life (well not an enormous part men who drive big cars generally lack in the physical area).. but it has been an education, unfortunately I have come out of it a totally different person, wary and suspicious almost cold, but not quite. And yes he is tatooed on the inside of my eyelids the only thing I have to do is imagine him at his most ridiculous, and there were some ridiculous moments he was not without humour, but had the inability to laugh at himself although there were occassions he did look stupid we all do silly things. Once again thank you Mr Green

Do you ever think of your old age, will you become a hermit and hide away somewhere or go to the elephants graveyard. I’m not sure whether I feel pity for you because you do miss out on the good things of life to a certain degree and I do think you are an incredibly lonely man, otherwise you wouldn’t spend your time on this site, most of us are drawn to it for solace, knowing that there are so many victims out there. My best friend died from cancer one of the things she said once was that she felt so isolated, do you feel isolated with your condition?

What is the mystery? When young, men want to get sex from a woman, when men are middle aged, men try to rob money from a woman, when men get old, they try to turn a woman into a free nursemaid.

Why complicate it? Just refuse to give a man sex money or free nursemaid care.

Dr. Kellog of Battlecreek Michigan, wrote married people should have sex 3-4 times a month during ovulation to concieve and then not again for 4 more years.

Many older medical and health researchers say same.

Today demon controlled, lust controlled, sex perverted, aids, std, gonnorhea, syphiliss, sti, and herpes viral infected perverted men want to bust up a womans body in childbearing and obsessive compulsive sex addiction.

Dr Kellog reccomends eating an orange for health if you have a sex craving.

Women are dying of cancers aids stds sti’s adrenal exhaustion and worse because demon controlled psychopathic sex perverted males teach obscene sex education via porn and burlesque mass media.

Older mds circa 1950 in France, measured the hemmorages, menses from a group of nuns and a group of prostitutes, the nuns hemmoraged a loss of a teaspoon of blood at monthly menses which lasted on average 2-3 days, the prostitutes hemmoraged for as long as two weeks losing so much blood they became anemic every month due to hemmorages of the uterus and blood loss.

Psychopathic men miseducate women about everything, psychopathic men are demon controlled. And if you remember….. the devil is an old illigitimate basterd man, a liar, a robber and a murderer, and the father of all liars robbers and murderers.

Bill Gates report on Global Health found that in countries where women are financially and economically empowered the std rate drops from 100% to 0%.

Earlier geneticists found the xy chromosome in a man is missing a hyleig on the y, women have 2 xx’s. This hyleig contains vital resource information that women have in thier genes that males lack.

Women have been opperessed exploited dominated robbed murdered lied to and raped by the lies and brutality of an inferior genetic mutation, the male. French mds noted males breasts no longer lactated due to biological degeneration of the male, and the male penis is just a prolapsed , fallen out, uterus, the mds had evidence to back up these insights.

Until women liberate themselves and take financial and administrative control and empowerment, women will be treated like negro slaves were in 1930 in Missisippi, deceived lied to, enslaved, robbed, exploited, battered, whipped, chained, raped, cheated, murdered and forced to break thier backs and fingers picking cotten as slaves under oppression of deranged sociopathic psychopathic demon controlled sickie males.

The jezebel demon infected women who perpetuate racism and sexism, submission to perversion, are just as bad as thier psychopathic male counterparts.

Mr Green:

“. Don’t feel bad for her she doesn’t know what I am. Ignorance is bliss. She likes what she’s found and I like what I’ve found. I plan on keeping her. She has found the love of her life and as far as she is concerned so have I.”

Pride goeth before a fall. Always remember that. Perhaps there’s a buffer of sorts against your woman finding out what you are because she is one of the types who see the good in everyone, or a malignant optimist, or loves you so much more than the normal woman can or does.

But there is a great possibility that she will find you out. I say this because I was her, for the longest time. Not specifically her , of course, but one of the breed. Best in show, in fact. I loved my S with every fiber of my being. He was the first thought I had in the morning, even when we were apart for half a decade, and the last thought I had at night. Sometimes he still is.

But I found him out.

And even still, being who I am, I sometimes look for ways to make him not what I found. To convince myself there is some other explanation: he’s in a cult. He had a head wound. He’s got multiple personality disorder. He’s…He’s…fixable.

The trouble with a woman like me finding you out is not just that she leaves and that kind of otherworldly NS is hard to replace. My ex-P said once that everyone is replaceable. That’s part of what tripped him up. P’s say things that they don’t always realize are abnormal to people of conscience. They do things in front of third parties that their “special” others gloss over or miss – but that the third party (who often genuinely loves the woman) catches and talks about.

That’s how my discovery was made. Not through my own observations alone. I could have discounted those actions, given time. The desire was there. But my loved ones’ observations were another story.

What makes these women you seek so problematic is this:

Because she has such a strong moral center and compass, she’s 20 times more revulsed by the truth than your average woman. As hard as she worked to forgive and forget whatever doesn’t fall in line with the “love of my life” thinking she will now work to bring you down. She’ll also never forgive you. When she finds you out – even though you go on to the next mark – she puts that same dedication, drive, focus and emotion into sharing the truth with the world.

You might say she becomes your mortal enemy – as big a danger to you as you may be to her.

That’s what I’m learning, anyway.

The typical P has a pathway strewn with corpses of women who figured him out. If it were so difficult, as you suggest, then this would not be so.

Bill Gates Committee on Global Health reported in countries where women are financially empowered and administratively empowered, the std rate drops from 100% to 0%.

Bill Gates Committee on Global Health google entire report can be found online.

My solution is same as Bill Gates, remove all financial and administrative power from sociopathic males and psychopaths and empower all women finanancially and administratively.

Gates found women do not rob other womens, mens and childrens food, health and welfare care to buy prostitutes or hoard.
Gates found males rob steal hoard and misappropriate money from women children and other males health food and welfare care whenever males administrate, women do not rob other women children or mens food health care and basic welfare monies to hoard and buy prostitutes like males do. Gates found males are corrupt administers of basic human services, women are not.
Solution is to disempower males from finance and administration and empower all women financially and administratively.
In England men bragg they used to starve women denying the women meat protien so women would be weak malnourished and easier to control and dominate as house slaves, sex slaves and misused as bar wenches.

If women do not liberate themselves from psychopathic male oppression tyranny miseducation, lies, robbery, exploitation and murder, they, women and children, will suffer the same fate as negroes under racism.
Only a destroyed enslaved brainwashed chained captive would pick a psychopath males cotten. I prefer the tradition of negro cooks under racist oppression and slavery, the house cooks used to serve psychpathic slave owners rat poison stew and rat poison sweet potato pie.
When you are oppressed by a psychopath that wants to destroy you and your children you must use self defense to save your life and escape.
Stockholm syndrome sufferers are brainwashed battered captive slaves, the devil loves to destroy humans like that. RESIST THE DEVIL and he will flee from you. RESIST REJECT and REBUKE the perverse psychopathic male.

LilOrphan:

I understand and can relate to your statements,

“What makes these women you seek so problematic is this:

Because she has such a strong moral center and compass, she’s 20 times more revulsed by the truth than your average woman. As hard as she worked to forgive and forget whatever doesn’t fall in line with the “love of my life” thinking she will now work to bring you down. She’ll also never forgive you. When she finds you out – even though you go on to the next mark – she puts that same dedication, drive, focus and emotion into sharing the truth with the world.

You might say she becomes your mortal enemy – as big a danger to you as you may be to her.”

The insights, pain, compassion, revelations and truth-seeking exhibited by the people on this sight are mind-opening. It enables one to see the truth, to gain perspective and put together the pieces of the puzzle of the Socipath.

After the “why” phase for me came the “figuring it out” (identifying him as a Sociopath) then “obsessiveness” (more investigation) and next the desire to expose him for the predator that he is. There are still a few (very few) people that believe in him, because he is a liar, and he is the lie. The Bad Man is extremely convincing. (Aren’t they all?)

I cannot say I was “in love” with my Sociopath in the same manner as you, LilOrphan (which I equate to butterflies, first love or “magical” feelings), but I have thought about him first thing in the morning, last thing at night, and throughout the day even though he has been gone for 6 months now. I LOVED him, but most of all I TRUSTED him, and believed him entirely. I trusted him like I trust my Dad, at a deep, intrinsic level. I also thought he was my best friend and confidante. I miss my lover (we all know how great that was!), but I also miss my best friend. That was the worst betrayal, the loss of trust; it affected my belief in humanity, and caused me to question myself, “what is wrong with me?” and “what could I have done differently?” I did not challenge him, criticize him, nor did we ever have an arguement. We agreed to disagree on some issues and I acquiesced to him although I am strong and independing-thinking. We got along 99% of the time (except during one of his rages) and that is what hurts me. It made me feel that I was not good enough, although now I understand at an intellectual level that they are thrill-seeking, etc., and that nothing I did could have satified him long-term.

Since I have seen the truth, and the mirror has cracked, it has become my mission to expose, expose, expose. To make him, figuratively, stand naked before the world as the predator and monster that he is. To fix some of the pain he has caused. To stop him from harming the next victim. I have, as you said, LilOrphan, ” that same dedication, drive, focus and emotion into sharing the truth with the world”.

I am assisting his ex-wife now and I would say that we (he and I) are definitely adversaries. There is a court battle now for his ex-wife’s share in a property sale, and there will be, forthcoming I believe, court proceedings to put him into jail for fraud, income tax evasion, and money laundering. In both cases I will testify against him.

In fact, his ex-wife has asked me to help her during court proceedings, and has asked me to be her power of attorney if it is mandated by the courts that she have one. She has become a dear friend, in need of help, and he is the lie. My focus is equity, justice, and truth…he and I are now on opposite sides of the fence. I could never have imagined, in my wildest dreams (or nightmares) six months ago that this scenario could have occurred. Never. I am indeed now, in fact, his moral (and mortal) enemy.

This is a totally different topic…but I have dated 2 sociopaths in my life, and have noticed that they both had a lot of guns and knives (also swords) displayed. Mostly they were all show pieces. None of the other men I’ve dated have had these. Has anyone else noticed this?

Comparisons to men of great power.. do we know who Mr Green is, no, do we have any empathy with him to a degree yes because by his own admittance even though he goes around it in a very intellectual way, he does infact tie himself in knots to a certain degree, he also seems to revel in a good debate, which is fine because it brings out the facts on both sides, the one thing about Mr Green is that we all mistrust him, there IS no point to us trying to understand him and his motives.

The string of this blog is ‘Discrimination and Sociopaths’ to find the site he must have dug deep because I know I had to, he is obviously having quite a lot of fun writing his say, I for one feel like it’s the mongoose and the snake… I’m not at all comfortable with him but he is like a cobra swaying from side to side and he is fascinating in an extremely sick way. However he is safe on this site, my B/M used to quote that sticks and stones etc etc, when infact my words in the letter I wrote to him may have blown his manipulative life to pieces, no doubt the superglue will come out and he will stick it back together to spend another day with another victim. Yes I am glad that I am out of it although I still wait for him to drop a bombshell of some kind, but one thing he doesn’t have and I think probably Mr Green is the same, is courage,
WE all have courage otherwise we would still be sitting at B/ms feet gazing adoringly into their sharks dead eyes oblivious to their rather pathetic game.

To v.abraded
“whether we would get straight answers is another question, a labyrinth of mind games.”

I have been trying to keep my mind games to a minimum. If I seem like I am playing any at this point it is because I don’t realize I am doing it.

“l know that emotion is a thing that sociopaths cannot possess, and no you don’t give straight answers, when you are with your woman what do you think, what do you tell her, do you tell her you love her, she’s the most beautiful woman in the world, do you scheme, or are you a snake in a suit?”

I do have emotions, they are just different then yours. It is difficult to give a straight answer on such a complex issue. I believe my answers make sense but it is difficult to explain something that nobody else can experience. It’s like trying to explain colour to a blind person. Explaining my lack of empathy is just as hard as you explaining to me what empathy feels like. We really have no common points to compare it to.

I tell her all the things I know a woman needs to hear. I comfort her to an extent and I try to be a good man to her. I really don’t think I am that bad to her. What I am thinking about when I am with her may not be what she wants me to think. When I am staring into her eyes in bed having a “romantic” moment I may be thinking about work, or whats on TV. I try to stay in the moment though because people can see it some times if you’re drifting. I scheme but when it is for her it is only for the good of our relationship. I’m not thinking about screwing sally next door.

“Having exposed my B/M of 13 years he has now gone to ground he is scared because I he knows I have found out so much about him and it may hamper his next move he is quite a well known business man.”

Don’t misinterpret his fear as weakness. I guess telling you this one tip is my selfless act of the day. He may be afraid but if you corner he he will bite. Let him know you have power but don’t dare use it. He can fight back worse then you may understand.

“Do you ever think of your old age, will you become a hermit and hide away somewhere or go to the elephants graveyard.”

I haven’t thought about my age until recently. It’s not part of a sociopaths problem set to worry about the future. I know I can’t be alone, that’s why I treat my girlfriend so kindly.

“I’m not sure whether I feel pity for you because you do miss out on the good things of life to a certain degree and I do think you are an incredibly lonely man, otherwise you wouldn’t spend your time on this site”

I’m on here because my job is boring as shit and I have unrestricted, unmonitored internet access. At the moment nobody is in my room and you may consider it loneliness but I am content by myself. I like time alone to think. I enjoy my time on this website because the more I type to explain myself to you the more I understand myself. I use it to bring make my subconcious knowledge conscious.

“,most of us are drawn to it for solace, knowing that there are so many victims out there.”

I’d like to say I come here because I’m drawn by all the victims as well but that would just be playing with you and I said I wouldn’t play with you.

“My best friend died from cancer one of the things she said once was that she felt so isolated, do you feel isolated with your condition?”

I feel like a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I walk around with my human mask on but on the inside I am not like the others. I always feel like I am hiding. I feel like there is an invisible barrier between me and other people. I just don’t understand all this love and empathy. I don’t understand why everybody is laughing. It’s like everybody has this inside joke and I’m the only one who doesn’t get it. Don’t feel bad for me though, I know it is natural for you to feel bad for me because you think I am lacking something. I don’t feel the pain in missing out.

To aha:

“Dr. Kellog of Battlecreek Michigan, wrote married people should have sex 3-4 times a month during ovulation to concieve and then not again for 4 more years.”

Dr. Kellog also though men had a finite amount of sperm in their lifetime and he didn’t want them to waste it. He made Corn Flakes because he though it would replenish his depleting sperm levels. He wasn’t a complete nut though, I love my corn pops.

I considered continuing on with a reply to this post but I think it would be in my best interest to stop talking before I say something that may get me in trouble. A helpful tip for the future would be to avoid research from the 1950’s. There is plenty of research done in modern times that you do not need that old inaccurate information. Part of science is to not only use the research that you support but you must use proven research that may not support your agenda. Obviously your experience with your sociopath has deeply affected you so I will stop here.

To LilOrphan

“The trouble with a woman like me finding you out is not just that she leaves and that kind of otherworldly NS is hard to replace. My ex-P said once that everyone is replaceable. That’s part of what tripped him up. P’s say things that they don’t always realize are abnormal to people of conscience. They do things in front of third parties that their “special” others gloss over or miss – but that the third party (who often genuinely loves the woman) catches and talks about.”

I say a lot of things that I recognize are abnormal. I test people on their awareness of this. I think this may be a common thing with sociopaths. My girlfriend is well aware of how awkward I can be socially because of some of the things I say. I say a lot of things out of context that may not make sense for the situation but when taken out of that context and placed in another they become crystal clear.

“What makes these women you seek so problematic is this:
Because she has such a strong moral center and compass, she’s 20 times more revulsed by the truth than your average woman. As hard as she worked to forgive and forget whatever doesn’t fall in line with the “love of my life” thinking she will now work to bring you down. She’ll also never forgive you. When she finds you out – even though you go on to the next mark – she puts that same dedication, drive, focus and emotion into sharing the truth with the world.”

I have said before that it is not a good idea to mess with a sociopath. If you are considering it I would advise against it. We don’t have a conscience to prevent us from doing the unthinkable. It is best to move on and save yourself. But I have also said I am not with her to abuse and use her. I don’t think of women as marks. I would think she has no reason to feel threatened by me. I am giving her what I think she wants.

“You might say she becomes your mortal enemy – as big a danger to you as you may be to her.”

I don’t think any moral person is capable of working at the same level I can.

“The typical P has a pathway strewn with corpses of women who figured him out. If it were so difficult, as you suggest, then this would not be so.”

Glad, I’m not typical.

Again to aha.

I would not be surprised if Bill Gates is not a sociopath. Sounds like he’s got a good game going. Remove all men from power and ignore that he’s got a penis so he can be the last remaining male.

Are you promoting killing men with rat poison? If that is the case then you are no better, in fact worse then most sociopaths and should be ashamed of yourself. I wasn’t going to get in your way because I thought you were just severely messed up because of your experiences but there is a limit to how messed up you area allowed to get in this society. I may be an anti-social sociopath but I recognize the laws. I don’t kill people.

Could somebody else help her? I am not a good help but I can see she needs somebody to talk to who she may listen to their reasoning. She needs to know not all males are sociopaths and that murder is wrong whatever your reasoning.

Cheers,

On the topic of discrimination… when folks are mired in the mud with a sociopath, everyone points the finger at the victim, wanting to know why he/she is so stupid to stay with their abuser.
Here is a link to today’s “Ask Margo”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/dear_margo/20080320/en_dm/margo_howard20080320;_ylt=AoX2SAGh85q1jBkk5_EbvNkDW7oF

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