By | June 27, 2012 298 Comments

Does the sociopath treat the next wife better?

Lovefraud recently received the following email from a reader:

I always knew there was something wrong with my ex-husband, and friends and family did as well. There were lies, gambling, cheating, drug use, rehab 3 times, head games. He would drive erratically with our son and I in the car (even when our son was very little). He would speed up if there was a cat or other animal in the road. I would always completely freak out so he never ran one over when I was in the car, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he did when I wasn’t. (I could tell his counselor in rehab #3 knew there was more to his problems than just drug addiction.) He was clean for a long time and that’s when I realized it wasn’t the drugs. He has always been able to get his way and talk people into things.  I always made excuses and actually made myself believe he would grow out of it as he got older.  But I did not pinpoint what “it” was until discovering Lovefraud.

I’ve been divorced for over 2 years now and my ex-husband is remarried to someone with 2 young teenage children. I sometimes get obsessed thinking about whether or not they are happy. I often wonder if he’s better to her than he was to me. I know our 22-year-old son feels somewhat replaced and like his father just moved right on with no problem (which I know is typical of a sociopath). I guess I need some reassurance about sociopaths in second marriages from experts to put my mind at rest. My ex has a history of lying, cheating drug use (actually got more sociopathic after he got clean and sober for over 8 years). About 6 months before I filed for divorce, he told me he gets a rush out of getting away with things and it’s gone on since he was a kid and he doesn’t know why. I just want to know that his new marriage is not all candy and roses. Can you address sociopaths in new marriages on your site? While I know I sound a little pathetic, I think it may help many.

Put your mind at ease: Your ex-husband does not love his new wife. He will never love his new wife. The reason is quite simple: Sociopaths are incapable of love.

Acting the part

Now, they are quite capable of acting like they are in love. They can give a command performance of heartfelt sentiments and promises of endless fidelity. But it is an act, and when the partner no longer serves a purpose for the sociopath, the act will end.

The new wife, of course, does not know this. So while your ex-husband is acting like he is in love, the new wife may legitimately be in love. She may be happy. She may be thrilled. She may believe that she’s found the person she’s been waiting for all her life, and all her dreams have come true.

Your ex-husband will nurture her dreams, at least while she still has something that he wants, which could be money, a place to live, or a facade of normalcy should he start using drugs again. After all, he gets a rush out of getting away with things like deceiving the new wife.

Truth revealed

Eventually he will revert to his true, miserable self. But even as the wife starts to see the same lies, gambling, cheating and drug use that you saw, for a time she will overlook the behavior, or support her man as he goes for a fourth round of rehab. For a time she will continue to believe the act.

Sooner or later, however, your ex-husband’s mask will slip again, or he will completely remove it. When she sees the truth, she will experience the same pain, devastation and betrayal that you experienced.

He is what he is

You need to get to the point where you thoroughly understand that he is what he is, and he will always be what he is. A snake is always a snake. He will not be a snake with you and a teddy bear with her.

Your ex-husband is a sociopath. Sociopaths are fundamentally different from the loving and empathetic people who make up the rest of the human race, and there is nothing you or anyone else can do about it. If you think of them as aliens, you aren’t far off.

Once you viscerally understand this, your obsession should come to an end.

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I think we have all probably wondered about this topic at one point or another. When I was still dealing with the spathy ex, he called me “on accident” at two in the morning so I could hear him with another women. I didn’t realize what he was at the time, but something in how kindly he was talking to her while she was in obvious distress was unnerving to me. I now know he had found his next victim and was in the process of doing the socipathic lovebombing in order to lure her in. This girl sounded so distraught, it reminded me of the hopeless state I was in when I met spathy, and how he sang “Handlyman” by James Taylor to me, lol! I actually thought he could fix my broken heart, and he was a horrible singer 🙂 Just an awesome con artist.

I’ve been struggling with a lot of angry feelings in the aftermath of our relocation. My whole world has changed in pretty much every way one can imagine. I miss my former home in a way that is indescribable. It feels like someone has died. I am trying to tell myself that once we are settled in a place of our own and I land a job, things will fall into place and I will feel better about my decisions.

The lesson that I am learning out of all of this is to trust my brain over my feelings. It was in following my “heart” and not my head that I ended up disregarding the red flags and giving the socipath a chance in the first place.

Right now, my FEELINGS are telling me that this relocation was a horrible decision. But my BRAIN knows that getting my child as far away from a sociopathic father as I can is one of the bests gifts I can give to her. When I look at it this way, instead of focusing on the feelings of fear and anger, I am open to the lesson that I am in need of mastering.


Marie – An ‘accidental’ phone call when he was with another woman! Is there no low they will not sink to?

I’m sorry for your pain. I think moving away was a great idea.


EXCELLENT article, Donna. I don’t believe that the next target will be “happy,” over time. They are what they are, and the next victim will possibly be damaged worse that I was.

LPMarie, someone HAS died – the ILLUSION that the spath generated is deceased, and it’s very NORMAL to feel the things that follow. But, my mantra is: Feelings Are Not Facts. My former “feelings” were based upon a carefully constructed illusion – the person that I had loved did not exist, and never had.


Amen. Donna, you said it perfectly.

I may even suggest that the reader book mark what you just wrote. She should read it every time she feels unsure or sad. She may have to review this response every day or every time she struggles with such thoughts for quite some time. One day, the need will disappear. She will understand completely. Peace in spite of everything will set in.

Well said, as always!



At first I thought it was an accident. I now know better. He was consistently sadistic throughout our “relationship.” Thank you for the support 🙂


True, the illusion is most certainly dead. I am feeling grief on so many levels. Certainly the loss of my dream of a family. Or rather a family with a dad for my daughter. But I never really had that with the spath. He pressured me to have a baby with him early on in our relationship, and without marriage, etc. I went against my own values and did what he wanted because it sounded so good. Truth is, I believe he thought I was so attached to the dream that he could get away with anything. All he really wanted the baby for was permanancy in my life and the stability it provided him with a place to live and the ability to abandon us to surf to his hearts content everyday. He was just looking for a sugar mama and I was an easy target with some disposable income. My, how things have changed!

I was very attached to Hawaii, where we left. I spent all of my adult years there and feel a deep spiritual connection to the island I lived on. I can’t explain it, but the first time I went there, I felt I had been there before and it was the first time I had ever felt “at home” in my entire life. I enjoyed many, many years there until I tangled with spathy. The sense of loss I feel so greatly involves my love for the island and the connection I feel to it. I keep telling myself I can go back there later in life. Maybe retire there? Maybe he will die… That may sound harsh, but he is such a dangerous person, I don’t feel my daughter or I will be safe going there while he is still existing. I won’t say living, because what kind of “life” does a parasite actually enjoy? Anyway, I am also in the process of selling my condo in a short sale, waiting to move into a rental in our new state, worrying about finding a good daycare and job, etc.

I once heard a woman talk about “high quality problems” and I can be grateful that since I am spath free, the problems I have are “highter quality” lol! At least it helps put it in perspective. It does feel like carp right now, but you are right, feelings are not facts. And I keep telling myself that this was the right move for my daughter. I also keep telling myself that I will look back a year from now when we are more settled and be more content with my decision.

At least we are safe and he doesn’t know where we are! Thanks for connecting with me. Hugs to you as well 🙂




True, true, true. They are broken records. Always repeating the same line ad nauseum.

I can attest to this. I put the spath on an anti-dating website, with both his made up name (which is SO hysterical, I wish I could share it here, just for laughs), and his real name.

Within about a month the post exploded, and 6-8 women, and friends of women, posted their horrors stories. And every one of them was nearly identical.

It was VERY validating. I never met them, or revealed myself to them. But ALL were happy to ‘see’ each other online, and validate one another.

I agree with Linda. If you are in doubt, READ this answer from Donna, again, and BE VALIDATED. Thank goodness you got him out of your life, and now you can get to the good stuff.

As LP (bless you for your grief from having to move…I am so sorry) said, now you can have ‘higher level’ problems! Not just a low life loser sucking the life out of you…..




Thank you for sharing that. It was very moving for me. Being a parent means sacraficing my own wants in order to protect her needs and well being. And your Mia Farrow/Woody Allen example nails that home.

The early morning phone call from Spathy asking the distraught girl if she was alright so tenderly ended with me hanging up. He called back later on and it sounded as if they maybe were having sex, but I couldn’t really tell. I wouldn’t put it past him. Our daughter was around 7 months old at the time and he started talking to me casually about this new girlfriend and relegated me to the role of his “baby’s mom.” It was so hurtful. And then he sends me a text saying he regreted his choices and missed me and the baby so much. But he was going to jail the next day and probably thought I would forgive and go visit him while he did time like I did during his earlier incarceration. Man, I was so sick! I would look at the other women there visiting their partners and think they were so stupid, that my ex and I were “different.” He was truly transformed from his past, but had to complete a prison sentence for his past transgressions. I bought his repentence so sincerely, I even wrote a letter to the prosecution asking for leniancy. The prosecutor told the defense attorney that in 20 years he had never been so affected by a letter and that it changed his mind in asking for the maximum sentance. At the time I was so proud of what I did for him. Now, I think of how he deserved so much more time and I assisted him in getting away with serving more time!!! Sick, sick, sick! But at least I have my daughter who I adore and would do anything for. I wouldn’t have had her if he was incarcerated longer. I probably would have left him. Anyway, I could go off on that tangent for days if I let myself!

I’m so sorry you received such a disgusting message from your ex Spath, but I’m glad you made it into something positive for yourself: resolving to be done with such revolting behavior. They seem to keep uping the ante to see how much we will edure. I truly believe my ex Spath thought I was going to stick by him no matter what. In the process of our relationship and when I was pregnant with my daughter, I received inpatient counseling for PTSD in another sate and I know without a question of a doubt this saved my life and enabled me to build up enough awareness and good coping skills to eventually leave the situation. I was initially scared because of the baby and becoming a single parent, but I finally realized I was ALREADY doing it on my own. I didn’t need him. I never did!



Thank you for the support 🙂 Bless you, too!


About a year into our ‘relationship’, the spath told me of someone he once ‘loved’ and how they could never be together. He told me of how they ‘seemed’ to part ways about every 6 months or so only to find themselves back together again-like clockwork. I didn’t understand at the time.
Throughout our ‘relationship’ he was ‘caught’ meeting up with her. Needless to say, he was more concerned with ‘how’ I had found out than the fact that I did. He ‘fessed up’ and told me he didnt have ‘innocent intentions’ of meeting with her, except ‘nothing happened’ other than gaining ‘closure’.
This was THE biggest mistake I made, looking back that is. It was then that the stage was set for what he believed Id accept.
Throughout the ‘relationship’, there were instances of him being shady, blatantly lieing about what I KNEW to be true, then leaving when I didnt accept his ‘version’ of what I knew, only to come back full force, love bombing the s%$^ outta me.
During a 5 month break up span, he began seeing someone. This person was QUITE similar to me in many respects, although he will say otherwise. He love bombed her, told her he loved her, called her baby, wanted to have a family, etc. As they ‘broke up’ after two months of dating, he told me how he left her at a Cubs game after ‘dancing at the bar with other guys to make me jealous.” His version is he got in a taxi and left and seemed to take great pride stating ‘she’s not the type of woman many men would leave.” Again, he ‘knew’ she wasn’t the one for him…only I was.
After our breakup 1.5 (and counting 🙂 )years ago, he tried keeping in contact cordially in between abuseive cycles UNTIL he found his next victim. She was about 6 years older than him. In an email he sent July 3, 2011 he told me of how he ‘loves me, cant stop thinking about me, misses me, etc, etc” I responded about a month later with MUCH disgust and anger. It was then that he ‘told’ me he had been ‘dating someone for about 2 months” (which would mean when he emailed me in July he was seeing her for a month already—bet she didnt know) who would LOVE to have him move in as she has ‘alot of money, a nice house and alot to offer’ and she wants a commitment/relationship with him. He, again, didnt want her though…it was ME he wanted, ME his heart was with.
I was sick.
He told me he was ‘getting ready to break it off with her and in fact, Ive not seen her in a week.”
He’s now ‘back’ with her and again, she has NO idea that 4 days before they went on a trip to see his bio mother (who I introduced him to) he was texting me asking for the video, holding himself ransom in exchange for the video, and bartering making plans for dinner should I give the video.
She too is VERY similar to me, minus the fact shes almost 10 years older. We have the same color hair, same soft presentation, both are educators and are highly educated.
So, to the question ‘will they treat someone else better than me?”
Hows this…HELL NO THEY WONT! The reason they’re not with you/us/me anymore is because they CANT treat us the way they CAN treat them…ONLY because THEY dont know what is REALLY in front of them…
We are lucky-
We know.


I was not a wife but I can answer this one. I have recently taken to using the letters MN instead of just N – because the man who is the catalyst for my being here is a MALIGNANT NARCISSIST. There is a world of difference between a garden variety N and an MN imho.

I was a girlfriend in what I thought was a serious committed relationship (that was going to lead to marriage – thank God I escaped that and he was not one to rush you to the altar!).

I later found out about previous relationships and how badly they ended – he did the love bombing thing in telling me how I was so much better and would not break his heart like these women had but I knew something was off and just put it down to typical new relationship excess… (Ha – now I know new relationship excess is a big fat RED FLAG!)

Anyway – what I can tell you without a doubt is that the cycle is the same – the new woman is in the early stages and is probably as enamored and excited and hopeful as you were at one time.

I do not begrudge her that feeling at all because I know what comes next – – I feel extreme sorrow for her because next is the series of little things that start to make you feel insecure and question yourself and “what did I do wrong to make him so angry” – how do I twist myself into something beyond recognition in order to wrest the warmth and love I was once showered with?”

That is the testing phase – they want to know how much they can push you it by bit until you are a creature your friends and people who really love you do not recognize.

People with better boundaries and more knowledge of human nature don’t tolerate this crap – they probably learned the lessons early and they get the heck out because they can recognize and name monsters.

People like I once was – we don’t know there are real monsters in human form and we take responsibility for EVERYTHING…

Like in Mel’s article on Shifting The Blame where shame is being discussed in the thread – I somehow in childhood learned when someone was not happy it must be my fault and I MUST DO SOMETHING TO FIX IT FOR “THEM” – parents, “friends” (who were anything but) boyfriends, husband – anytime someone even began to express some sort of displeasure in anything – no matter how unrelated or how little power or responsibility I truly had over it I was immediately trying to figure out how to fix it.

(Fun example for you: Living 3,000 miles from home and having been gone for 5 years and being shamed by my mother for my siblings having bad grades in high school – because of course that was my fault… My loving mother still blames me for that and the subsequent life trajectory of said sib – (who is in fact a fine and wonderful a person and excellent parent…and has no idea their success in life is my responsibility…lol)

Sorry for the digression – short answer – THE NEW LOVE IS ON THE HIGHWAY TO HELL – SHE/HE JUST DOESN’T KNOW IT YET. SHE WILL NOT BE SPARED ANYMORE THAN YOU WERE BUT SHE/HE WILL HAVE THE ADDITIONAL PLEASURE OF BEING USED TO TORTURE YOU IF POSSIBLE… Know that without a doubt. Know that in your heart and soul and have pity for the new person (IF they are truly innocents…and not P/S/N’s themselves)…

The wrenching agony and heart broken pains are still to come for them. Be glad you have escaped – and make sure you learn the lessons so you do not have to repeat it. I came after – from the outside in the beginning it looked like he would lay down in front of a car for me – at the end he was trying to kidnap me and use me as a body shield from his perceived persecutors. It sounds funny but yes – he tried to use my body as a shield for potential assassins. The stories I have of craziness- well I really need to write a book. The kind that makes people who are clueless laugh so hard tears come out of their eyes because it is just so unbelievable.

New Beginning

Marie, I’ve struggled with those thoughts as well. It’s all very difficult to deal with but at the end of the day I believe we’ve been given a gift to begin a new life that can be filled with people who truly do love us. One thing I know for sure is that I will never disregard the red flags again……ever.

You did the best thing for both you and your child. You left for survival and created an opportunity for both you and your child to thrive.

Hang in there!



We truly are the lucky ones to have the awareness of what we are dealing with, to be able to learn more, grow, heal.

Thank you, New Beginnings, for your post and your support! I agree with you that we have been given a gift, a chance to start a new life. I can’t remember where I read this or who said it to me, but it was:

“When the bottom drops out in your life, it creates a new space to fill with new and exciting things.”

I love the positive message that sends when we are faced with loss and grief. It makes the trauma feel more bearable for me.

Thank you to everyone on this site who has ever sent me a positive message while I have struggled with the feelings and choices. I haven’t been on LF very long, but it has given me so much in the short time I have had the honoor of calling myself a member of our special community. Through the books, the articles, and the comments and shared experience, I believe I have grown so much in my own understanding of what happened and how to prevent entanglements with disordered people in the future.

I am almost 1 year NC with my ex Spath and his family. If anyone had told me a year ago that I could do everything that I have done in the past year almost completely alone with a small child to care for, I would have thought you had gone mad!

I have finally learned (and believe) that I am made of much stronger stuff than I ever thought. And I am relieved that I am making better choices that promote health, healing, and most importantly, model good choices and behavior to my growing Angel! It was through becoming pregnant and wanting to raise her with high self esteem and spare her growing up in chaos that I became motivated to change.


Donna has,as usual, got this one exactly right. Let us just be reminded that not all sociopaths are males. Often they are female and the victims/survivors can be of either gender. Just a reminder.
All sociopaths ARE BAD period.

New Beginning

Indeed wguy, and I think in many instances they can wreak more havoc in the lives of family members than their male counterparts do. My brother married one (2nd marriage) 5 years ago and she is FAR worse than the man I was married to for 30 years. Not to mention that she is in her 50’s and keeps hitting on my young adult son. It really is disgusting. My son is mortified by it. To top it all off, she is a psychologist who thinks that suicidal people are making it all up for attention. She actually thinks it’s funny… kidding.

My best to you on your recovery & journey, wguy.



Take from What is a Psychopath

“Like the narcissist, the psychopath has an arrogant, disdainful, and patronizing attitude; however, let me make this clear: often in the initial stages of charming someone new, the true character is kept hidden, naturally. That is why, when a woman warns another woman about a psychopathic man, his newest victim will not be able to believe the bad stories about him. “But he’s so charming, so kind, so nice…” and so forth will be her reply. Yes. Exactly. He is playing a game with you too.”

New Beginning

You’re welcome Marie, and a thank you to you as well. Your achievements over the past year are an inspiration to many, myself included.

I like the quote about the bottom dropping out. I think I’ll put that one up on the fridge to remind myself to keep moving forward each and every day.

Be safe, be proud (you’ve done so much!) and be well. 🙂


New Beginning, Thanks for your kind words. Yes I think female sociopaths can be worse too. My ex-“friend” is now in her 50’s and unfortunately I know from personal experience (decades ago now) that she’ll hit on any age group (young or old). Thanks.

By the way, does anyone know how one goes about posting one’s personal story? Just wondering

Lone Wolf

New Beginning

Jesus! Your brothers wife has to be a contender for Worst. Psychologist. Ever.

Is he making plans to break from her? Or is he still all entangled? Urgh!

My least your son has not been sucked in. Things could be worse if she had succeeded in seducing him.



Such a pertinent article. I have come to understand the nuts and bolts of why I feel this crazy attachment to someone who used me and tossed me aside when he had his fill.

I loved him. He, on the other hand never loved me.
A simple statement

…… But one which has had huge ramifications. It could be the bitterest pill I’ve ever had to swallow. Then again…….


Ditto to everything that Donna said.

Ox Drover


Just pick a spot and post your story….or if it is very long,, then send it in an e mail to Donna and maybe she will use it as a “letter to Love Fraud”

Welcome to LF BTW…sorry you are qualified for our group…we are not really very exclusive, but if you need to be here this is a great place! We are mainly women but we DO WELCOME GUYS…and there are several guys here –straight and gay. Again, welcome! God bless.

New Beginning

Lone Wolf, I suspect she’s probably driven several of her clients to suicide. Entertainment for her.

Yes, I am grateful that my son is very creeped out by her!

My brother, well she has him brain washed. He thinks she’s the best thing since sliced bread. Not sure how she did it but his personality is a complete 180 degree difference from the person he was for the first 50 years of his life.


Thank you so very much Donna! I am the one who wrote the e-mail and can’t tell you how much better your response makes me feel. I sometimes come to a place of needing reassurance and this definately did it for me. Sometimes I just think “Duh, of course he’s the same guy” and then other times the “was it me. Is there something wrong with me” creeps into my mind. I of course want everyone to know that I do not wish the results of my ex’s behavior, lies, secrets and wierdness on his new wife, her kids or anyone. Although, I did finally file for divorce when I found out he was cheating on me (again) with this woman a few years ago. I understand how pushy, manpulative and decieving he is. I will save this factual response and refer to it when those feelings creep in again.

Hi Jules,
my exspath is a very conniving pure psychopath. We weren’t married but lived together for 25 years.

He told me stories about his ex-gfs. One killed herself. He said he didn’t know why she walked out into traffic. There was also the incident where a burglar broke into her apt. while they were in bed and started slashing at them… I guess nobody was hurt and he left… 🙁

The next one, was “not very smart” he said. She was easily taken in by the neighborhood creeps. They would fight alot. In the end, she got in her car and drove as fast as she could because she was so upset. He was chasing her on his motorcycle (because he was so worried about her… 😛 ) when he lost control in the rain and ended up in the hospital.

I guess I was next. It seems like he treated me better, but then I had money. In the end, I learned that I had been poisoned almost the entire time with small amounts of strychnine. And he was plotting on killing me and making it look like it was suicide.

So, I guess what I’m saying is that appearances mean nothing. spaths don’t change. They might make small adjustments to their tactics but they don’t change their spots.

You did a great thing getting away from the parasite.

ash phoenix

Welcome, Lone Wolf. It is great to have you here with us. We all have ‘pieces of the jigsaw’ that can help one another.

I am so glad LPMarie that you have made the choices you have made. My heart goes out to you at the loss of your beloved Hawaii – but you have done the right thing in getting your precious little girl as far away from the malignant influence of Spathetic as possible.

Onelukygirl, thanks for that reminder re. the definition of a psychopath….chilling but so important to engrave on one’s heart and mind!

Parallelogram, that was such a powerful post re Mia Farrow. Thank you.

Blessings and light to all.

ash phoenix

Skylar, I meant to add that your Spath’s attempt at strychnine poisoning sounds like something out of the life of the Borgias! It is positively Machiavellian. I’m reminded of that ‘Dark Triad’ that Donna (or was it Dr Leedom?) wrote about. Machiavellianism; Narcissism and Sociopathy (I think I’m right?) And how important it is to run like the wind if you ever come across people who exhibit these traits…

Hi Ash,
he wasn’t going to kill me with strychnine, that would’ve been too obviously murder. He had been telling everyone I was a drug addict and stealing my lunesta a few pills at a time. So I think it was going to be a drug overdose. But, based on his story about his exgf who killed herself and had been chased by a burglar, I also suspect he had a plan b, in which I was going to be drugged up and then run out into the road while being chased by a madman, then hit by a car.

He LOVES drama and will go to great lengths to tell stories which you will doubt actually happened. Then you find out they DID actually happen. What he doesn’t tell you is that HE SET THE WHOLE THING UP AND EVERYONE IN THE STORY WAS A PAWN.

He makes each pawn believe that only he and the pawn know the real truth. He tells each pawn that it will be their little secret. By this time the pawns are so deeply involved that they are too afraid to come forward with the truth. Except the “truth” isn’t the truth. Each pawn gets a different “truth”.

He’s pure evil.

yes, you’re right. even a small indication should tell us to run like the wind. I lacked the knowledge of what these creatures were like. Who can fake emotions like that? Who doesn’t have emotions? That was beyond my understanding. It’s not now though.

Lone Wolf

Ash Phoenix

Thank you for your kind welcome.

Love your user name – I identify. 🙂

I am sure you are right about the jigsaw pieces…I often feel my piece is too jagged and mis-shapen to fit and that the spaths “fit in” more seamlessly as a result of their use of projection and masks. I need to remind myself that I am part of lifes jigsaw and that I need to redisscover where and how I and other spathed people who may feel the same.

New Beginning

Urgh! I am glad you are glad your son is aware but I did guess what you might say about your brother. *sighs*

I identify with someone making a 180 degree change in their personality as late as their 50s as the same happened with me as it was only at that age that my older spath sister revealed her spathiness. This late blooming of horror means it was even less likely that I would be believed by others which has happened. 🙁

It’s tough. At least your brother knows you are in his corner if he one day decides to realise he IS in a corner!


ash phoenix

Hi again Lone Wolf

Just remember that your jigsaw piece, however battered you might feel, is worth ONE THOUSAND times more than the fake, papier mache pieces of the spaths. Hang on to that reality. You have been in a hall of mirrors, unable to see yourself clearly anymore because of the Spaths in your life. I’m sorry it has been and is so tough for you. Hang in there. You will find a lot of support in this community. Keep reading the resources and the blogs and you will see that although our stories are different in some variations, the essential theme is the same – the abuse of people’s very souls by inhuman abusers. They will never win, because genuine love is the strongest force in the world, even more powerful than death.



Lone Wolf, one of the most prevalent obstacles to overcome re spathy is the need for validation. We want someone to BELIEVE what we’re telling them, and it’s almost too much for most people to comprehend unless they’ve had similar experiences.

Joyce wrote a superb article on SELF-validation, and mentions some of the ways that we can do that.—first/

By caring for my “self = soul,” I can begin to validate my own value as a human being. Now, this is something quite new to me because I had NEVER felt valued, at any time in my life. Even when the exspath was setting up his long-con, the “value” that he expressed for me was vague and superficial, but I wasn’t self-assured enough to recognize it.

Self-esteem, self-worth, self-EVERYTHING are the cornerstones to strong personal boundaries. And, the spaths have that spath-o-meter that can zero in on any vulnerabilities with precision.

Brightest blessings


To clarify “self-everything,” I mean those POSITIVE perceptions of our own existence, not self-deprecation, etc.


New Beginnings:

No exaggeration, when I was packing and shipping I had many inspirational quotes on the fridge, with the one about the bottom dropping out being among them! Without getting into too much detail, my relocation was a challenge that I look back on and think of how amazing we really can be when we set our minds to accomplishing a goal, in my case, getting my daughter and myself into safer circumstances.

One amazing thing happened, too. One of my former clients and his wife are realtors. I had a heart to heart with her one day and she looked so concerned. She and her husband did so much to assist me in my exit strategy, including clearing out and cleaning up everything I left behind in my condo. They have been selling my stuff in garage sales for me! As awful as the Spath was, he has not destroyed my faith that there are still good people out there. As a result of my circumstances in the aftermath of Spathy, I believe in God once more, and that he/she/it put these wonderful people in my path. Stay encouraged 🙂 Hugs to you!

Ash Phoenix:

Thank you for your support and encouragement. I like the word you made up: Spathetic! I appreciate all of the kind feedback. And I’m sorry that you have found yourself among our community, but welcome and may you find comfort and healing here, as I do!


Oxy, Thanks for the information. I will send Donna an email in about a week or so. By the way, I have already learned a lot from LF and always look forward to Joyce’s articles. Hope to be able to add to the male perspective, as well as the perspective of the developmentally disabled (That last “category” applies to both myself and the spath.) Thanks again and my best to everyone.


Most of the posts today could have been written by me. I was together with my spath for 20 years. Stood by him while he was in jail for a year (stole a car and 3 DWI’s). Visited him every week and put money on his books. I too wrote a letter to the judge presiding over his case asking for a lighter sentance because my spath was just going through “male menopause”. After he got out of jail I supported him, bought him a car and a motorcycle, kept him in cigarettes and beer. Even paid for the cab to go drinking since he convinced me that was why he went to jail and the car was “no big thing”. All this time he looked for a job (because I insisted). He would get a telemarketing job here and there but for the most part it was me paying for everything. Anything he even mentioned he liked I went and bought him. I thought I was the happest person in the world. For 10 years things went on this way and then he got a “real” job as a salesman. Most of the other jobs he either quit or got fired from within 8 months, so I held my breath. This one seemed to be working out and he actually started chipping in toward rent and food (I insisted). Things started falling apart when the job went too well. He has a steady permanent income. His boses liked him and he now figured he didn’t need me any more and could make it on his own. His personality changed. He would yell at me for the strangest things (we disagreed on who sang a certain song). I was too dumb to see what was going on but, to his advantage, I needed to move out of state for a family illness.

I sold the house and planed to buy a new one in the other state, but he bought a new car and decided to stay in town for a year so he could pay off the loan.

Well here I sit in a different state, glad he is where he is and I’m here . . . BUT . . . it’s like I’m addicted to him. Since we cut off contact with each other (my choice – the lies were getting to much to bear) I go from hating him to missing him. And when I’m missing him I mean I AM REALLY MISSING HIM to the point of tears and becoming hysterical. The whole thing is the mind and emotion thing. I need to get an emotion transplant!

Was reading in the blogs about “the betrayal bond” and went to Amazon to buy the book but saw one I thought might work for me better. It’s about how to fall OUT OF LOVE. Can’t remember the exact name, but ordered it and after I read it I’ll let you know if it was of any help.

There is a lot more to my story but somebody somewhere has told it in their blog. They are not alone and now that I have found LF I don’t feel so along either.

Ox Drover

Stormy, you are not alone, that is for sure……not sure just how many people read here butj it is a bunch!

Keep on reading, the missing him will not last forever, but you will have bouts of it so that is normal. The hating him also..

I hope you do not have children with this man, and that will help some if you never again have to see or talk to him.l No contact is the best way to help you “fall out of love” and it will take some time.

Knowledge is power. So read and learn and blog here and your power will come back! you will be free of him emotionally as well.

I also strongly suggest that you read Donna’s book RED FLAGS OF LOVE FRAUD it is an excellent book and the work book comes with it if you buy it from LF store. Hang in there!



I’m sorry for your pain and loss, but I am glad you have found your way to LF. I agree with what you said, that someone somewhere here has told the story on this blog already. But when you are ready, and as little or as much as you want to reveal, people here really do care about Stormy’s version of the story, too 🙂

It might be healing for you to get it out in bits in pieces or the whole thing, whatever. The point is that if it is healing to you, that’s what matters. Besides, it also helps validate other people to see that they are not alone, that while what has happened to us through our encounters with these Spathy types is tragic, we are connected by our common bond and can come here to help lick one another’s wounds. (BTW, I’m pretty sure that is a screen name for one of the members :))

I’ve never posted my entire story in its entirety here. It’s overwhelming to me, and I’m not 100% clear on all of it, to be quite frank! There is a lot of “blur” in the years I spent with my Spathy ex. For me personally, I find it incredibly validating to come here and write about things as they come up and receive feedback from others who have also experienced some of the same exact events! For example, you saying that you wrote to the judge trying to assist your spathy ex helps me to know that I wasn’t a special sort of stupid in trying to help my spathy ex. It’s just something we both did trying to help someone we cared for, not realizing WHAT they were at the time.

Anyway, I’m glad you are here and I wish you the best in your healing and recovering from the trauma these types of relationships inflict on us.

Lone Wolf

Ash and Truthspeak

Thank you both so much. You are very kind. This means a lot especially in my current fragile state.

Sometimes it is hard to believe that there is anyone else – apart from my partner – who isn’t either out to get me or indifferent to my plight.

This site is a super place and I like how people are at all different stages at spath dealing and can provide support and receive it where they are right now. xx

Love and light.



Stormy, I remember seeing your posts, previously. I’m so sorry that you have had these experiences. As other readers have said, you really aren’t alone – it may FEELb as if you are, but you are in very good company on this amazing site.

His personality didn’t change – he simply didn’t see the need for playing the game, anymore. You are NOT “dumb,” Stormy, and you never were. You were committed to helping an illusion that you loved.

Going back and forth between hate, anger, and missing the spath is NORMAL, Stormy. Your mind is trying to process all that he did and reconcile those events with the illusion that he created.

Try being a bit kinder to yourself. It may be an option to look into counseling with a therapist that “gets it.” Where this spath is concerned, I feel the trauma bond is what held you to him for so long. It’s a recognized condition that really reinforces that belief that this person just needs “a better chance” to turn their lives around.

Just keep reminding yourself that what you’re “missing” is 100% false and not what he truly is.

You’ll be okay, Sroemy. Right now, you’re grieving and what you~e experiencing is normal.

Brightest blessings


concerning, the “next wife”. My shrink told me that when the s/p gets old…he will not have the mental agility to pull off the really bad things he did when he/she was younger. at some point, he will “have to” stick with who he is with.
any thoughts from anyone?
And…what if the new wife is just as much a s/p as he is?
I do know i wouldnt want to be any where near a relationship like that. However, I do hate that she is probably going to be getting all i worked so hard for that he has taken from me!…thats tough to swallow…even if she will get her’s in the end.


I have observed that these type of people do tend to settle down a bit when they get older. Not always, but I have seen it. I agree with the shrink; they sometimes stick with whoever they find once they are older; whether they are happy or not. It’s someone to take care of them and be with when everyone else has kicked them to the curb because of all their nasty deeds.

I actually think they love women who are just as spathy as they are. They say they don’t, but I think they do. That is more exciting to them and we all know how bored they get; they need that stimulation. Even though they need someone compliant to take all their crap, I think that becomes boring to them.


thank you for your input. Makes sense to me, however, I can’t help but wish they would both experience the complete devastation that my estranged bestowed upon me. I am working on healing. It seems my lows are more low than my highs or good times. I hope that when my 4 year old divorce battle ends that i can move on. I need to forgive myself for allowing the fake love i had and life i lived. It is still hard to get a handle on it all.
thank you again!


Louise, I loved what you said about spaths “loving” partners who are as spathy as them. Of course they want them to be compliant also and that’s where they have difficulty ‘marrying’ the two personality types. I think you’re spot on. My ex wanted a dominatrix in the bedroom….so he said! (Funny but the few times I initiated sex he said it was bad timing).But he also required a shy, quiet biddable woman that never stood up to him and did everything for him.

He loved to tell me of past lovers who “bent over backwards” for him. We never argued he would boast. Ye because she just allowed him to do whatever he wanted, say what he liked and what happened to her? In his words…..I got sick of looking at it.

You got it louise …..he was bored.

Thank you for writing that post. Perfect timing for me just at the moment.


New beginning,
So glad to see you….er read you, lol. I’ve missed your input.

Dearest Dupey, where are you? Hope you’re ok my friend

New Beginning

Strongawoman, hello! Thank you so much for your kind words! How are you?

Lone Wolf – boy do I ever understand the feeling of people either out to get me or indifferent to my plight. The spaths run in packs and the non-spaths don’t want to believe this type of thing happens outside the movies. It’s quite a bitter pill to swallow. I try to focus on the fact that the best revenge is a life well lived. It’s not easy, but the best path never seems to be the easiest one.

Be well.




I’m well thank you. Still trying to work my way through the spathy mire but I do believe I’m getting there. I’ve been a “member” here for about 8months now and unfortunately, part way through NC, fell off the wagon for a while…..only to inevitably find myself back at square one again. Sigh.

We live and learn, so the saying goes. Seems to be taking me sometime to get the message.

I wanted to believe his bs. That he was sorry……etc,etc. Only to find it was just another round of the same old same old.

Lesson learned. When some of the veterans here say NC is the only way, they’re not wrong. Indeed.

Really good to hear from you and hoping you’re doing well. Always got a lot from your words of wisdom.



Strongwoman said they want someone who is a spathy as they are yet want some a compliant too, and that is where they have a problem marrying the two personalities. LIGHT BULB MOMENT here.

That is exactly the thought I have been trying to put into words for YEARS. That’s it, that is exactly how I have felt for years and years. That also explians the crazy making. If the can indeed drive us insane then we are spathy like them yet compliant. My nh has relatives where the husband after 35 years of marriage did EXACTLY that. The poor women has always been way to passive(compliant) as far as I am concerned, yet I guess that wasn’t good enough, he HAD to see her insane. Poor woman, but she has a pill now so she can endure more from her s.



You are very welcome. I’m glad my words helped you.



You are welcome.


Dear LPMarie,

I’ve just been reading your post about how homesick you are. I remember how desperate you were to get away. I wanted to tell you that I admire your courage for getting away and giving up your beloved homeland to protect you and your little one. That takes guts. Good for you my lovely. Better to be safe than sorry.

Really hope that things improve for you. Keep your chin up girl

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