I am truly depressed about the upcoming presidential election. Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton (and Bill Clinton, who comes with Hillary) have serious character flaws that I believe make them unfit to be president of the United States.
The talking heads on TV have been practically foaming at the mouth as they disparage whichever candidate they don’t support. Unfortunately, they have plenty of legitimate material to work with. Just when you think Donald Trump can’t say anything more incendiary, he does. And just when one Clinton scandal dies down, another one surfaces.
I don’t personally know any of the candidates. But some people who do know them have written tell-all articles and books (which are roundly disputed by the supporters of the candidates who have been portrayed so unflatteringly). Here are a few good ones:
Donald Trump’s ghostwriter tells all, on NewYorker.com
Tony Schwartz, who actually wrote Donald Trump’s book, The Art of the Deal, says that if he were to write a book about the business mogul today, he’d call it, The Sociopath.
“Trump has been written about a thousand ways from Sunday, but this fundamental aspect of who he is doesn’t seem to be fully understood,” Schwartz told me. “It’s implicit in a lot of what people write, but it’s never explicit—or, at least, I haven’t seen it. And that is that it’s impossible to keep him focused on any topic, other than his own self-aggrandizement, for more than a few minutes, and even then . . . ” Schwartz trailed off, shaking his head in amazement. He regards Trump’s inability to concentrate as alarming in a Presidential candidate. “If he had to be briefed on a crisis in the Situation Room, it’s impossible to imagine him paying attention over a long period of time,” he said.
The mind of Donald Trump, on TheAtlantic.com
Dan P. McAdams wrote a portrait of Donald Trump, drawing from concepts in the fields of personality, developmental and social psychology. This article includes a description of Andrew Jackson, who was elected president in 1828 he and Trump have a lot in common.
For psychologists, it is almost impossible to talk about Donald Trump without using the word narcissism. Asked to sum up Trump’s personality for an article in Vanity Fair, Howard Gardner, a psychologist at Harvard, responded, “Remarkably narcissistic.” George Simon, a clinical psychologist who conducts seminars on manipulative behavior, says Trump is “so classic that I’m archiving video clips of him to use in workshops because there’s no better example” of narcissism. “Otherwise I would have had to hire actors and write vignettes. He’s like a dream come true.”
Bill, White House staff lived in fear of Hillary: Ex-Secret Service officer, on Pagesix.com
In June, Gary Byrne, a former Secret Service agent who says he was posted outside of the Oval Office when Bill Clinton was president, came out with a book called, Crisis of Character: A White House Secret Service officer discloses his firsthand experience with Hillary, Bill and how they operate.
“Hillary Clinton is now poised to become the Democratic nominee for president of the United States, but she simply lacks the integrity and temperament to serve in the office,” he writes.
“From the bottom of my soul I know this to be true. And with Hillary’s latest rise, I realize that her own leadership style volcanic, impulsive, enabled by sycophants, and disdainful of the rules set for everyone else hasn’t changed a bit.”
Is Bill Clinton a sociopath? on RealClearPolitics.com
Dick Morris, a former political adviser to Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.) and President Bill Clinton, wrote about his experiences with the former president.
In all my years of dealing with Bill Clinton, I never heard him express the slightest twinge of regret or concern about the fate of women who had crossed his path. He would discuss the Paula Jones, Gennifer Flowers or Monica Lewinsky “situations” as if it involved someone else, not him, and never reflected on the damage he had caused to other human beings.
Diagnostic criteria for personality disorders
Google any of the candidates’ names with the words “sociopath,” “narcissist,” “antisocial” or “psychopath” and you’ll get plenty of search results. But let’s look at the actual diagnostic criteria. Do they apply to the candidates?
The most authoritative tool for diagnosing psychopathy is the Psychopathy Checklist Revised, developed by Dr. Robert Hare. It includes 20 items, and evaluators decide the degree to which each item describes an individual as a good match, partially, or not at all.
Hare Psychopathy Checklist Revised
- Glibness/superficial charm
- Grandiose sense of self-worth
- Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
- Pathological lying
- Conning/manipulative
- Lack of remorse or guilt
- Shallow affect (emotions)
- Callous/lack of empathy
- Parasitic lifestyle
- Poor behavior controls
- Promiscuous sexual behavior
- Early behavior problems
- Lack of realistic, long-term goals
- Impulsivity
- Irresponsibility
- Failure to accept responsibility for actions
- Many short-term marital relationships
- Juvenile delinquency
- Revocation of conditional release
- Criminal versatility
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association (DSM-5) includes the following descriptions for antisocial and narcissistic personality disorders. These are the criteria used by most therapists when diagnosing their clients.
DSM-5 Antisocial Personality Disorder
Antisocial Personality disorder is marked by a pervasive pattern of disregard for or violation of others’ rights and must include at least three of the following:
- Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors, as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
- Deceitfulness as indicated by lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
- Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead.
- Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
- Reckless disregard for safety of self or others
- Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations
- Lack of remorse as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another
DSM-5 Narcissistic Personality Disorder
NPD is marked by a pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), the need for admiration, and lack of empathy and must include at least five of the following:
- Exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements
- Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
- Believes he/she is special and unique, i.e., can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
- Requires excessive admiration
- Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with expectations
- Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
- Is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings or needs of others
- Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
- Has arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
Evaluating the candidates
Looking at these lists of diagnostic criteria, I think it’s fair to say that Donald Trump, Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton are all narcissists. But that’s just the starting point.
Personality disorders are not clear cut they are clusters of traits, and often the traits overlap. So looking at the lists, we can see that traits from psychopathy also apply to the candidates (although more to Donald and Bill than Hillary).
- Glibness/superficial charm
- Grandiose sense of self-worth
- Pathological lying
- Conning/manipulative
- Lack of remorse or guilt
- Callous/lack of empathy
- Promiscuous sexual behavior
So if these three people were to be evaluated by clinical psychologists, my guess is that the diagnoses would be “narcissistic personality disorder with psychopathic features.”
Narcissism in the White House
Narcissists have occupied the White House multiple times in American history. Back in 2013, a group of psychology researchers analyzed the personalities and records all the presidents of the United States, up to and including George W. Bush, and estimated each man’s level of narcissism.
The Narcissist in Chief, on NYTimes.com
The authors, Scott O. Lilienfeld and Ashley L. Watts, wrote:
We found that narcissism, specifically “grandiose narcissism” an amalgam of flamboyance, immodesty and dominance was associated with greater overall presidential success. (This relation was small to moderate in magnitude.) The two highest scorers on grandiose narcissism were Lyndon B. Johnson and Theodore Roosevelt, the two lowest James Monroe and Millard Fillmore.
Grandiose narcissism was tied to slightly better crisis management, public persuasiveness and agenda-setting. Presidents with high levels of this trait were also more likely to assume office by winning election in a landslide (55 percent or more of the popular vote) and to initiate new legislation.
Yet we also found that grandiose narcissism was associated with certain negative outcomes, including unethical behaviors like stealing, abusing power and bending rules. High scorers on this trait were especially likely to have been the target of impeachment resolutions (John Tyler, Andrew Johnson, Bill Clinton).
These authors make it sound like having a narcissist as president isn’t such a bad thing. Granted, most politicians likely have elevated levels of narcissism. But at some point, the narcissism becomes excessive, and when there are also psychopathic traits in the mix well, I’ve written about politicians like them before (former Pennsylvania State Senator Vince Fumo, former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich, former New Jersey Governor Jim McGreevey, former Executive Director of the Philadelphia Housing Authority Carl Greene). At best, they’re embarrassing; at worst, they’re criminal. In any event, they usually cost taxpayers a lot of money.
What to do?
Personally, I believe that character counts, and I am very worried about what will happen if either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton becomes president.
Therefore, I am seriously looking at other candidates, particularly Gary Johnson and Bill Weld of the Libertarian party.
I have never liked the domination of the American political process by only two parties the right-wing Republicans and left-wing Democrats. I’ve voted for third-party candidates twice, even knowing that it was a lost cause.
But this time it’s really serious. And this time so many people don’t like the major party candidates that someone else may have a chance. I hope so.
I don’t want to have a narcissist with psychopathic features in the White House.
We lost our daughter to a mind-controlling Internet predator
Donna:
Thanks for your thoughts on this important topic.
If the U.S., not to mention mankind, survives the results of this presidential election (nuclear codes, and all that), perhaps the silver lining is that Narcissism and Sociopaths are being discussed on almost a daily basis. Still, I wish the “political pundits” would take just a bit of time to be more informed about these personality disorders—how common they really are, how destructive to those around them they really are, how unchangeable they really are, the tactics they use to deceive and manipulate, why these tactics work, and on and on.
Even with all I’ve learned from living through being psychologically trapped in a long marriage with a sociopath (documented in my book Husband, Liar, Sociopath) and extensive reading on the subject, I am still just a bit incredulous at the very public display of some sociopathic traits/strategies by these very public people (and how many adoring fans they still have and how many people are ready to give them a “pass” for bad behavior).
Just to name a few, there’s the:
• “I never said what you thought I said” defense (e.g., Trumps’ Second Amendment remarks about Hillary Clinton).
• “I was just kidding” defense (the assertion that President Obama was the founder of ISIS).
• Parsing of words evasion and distraction strategy (Hillary and the emails).
• Falling back on “exactly what does that word mean to me and you, anyway” defense (Bill and the classic utterance “It depends upon what the meaning of the word “is” is.)
And this is still done with cameras clicking and video recording and an easily accessible record of what actually took place.
Yet, let’s pause for a moment and remember how crazy making and soul destroying these tactics are for the rest of us mortals for whom there is usually no documentation of the events.
• We live in a private, isolated, altered reality and are made to feel crazy (“I never said that. You’re just being a ____________”nag/shrew/jerk/fill in the blank, “You misremembered again.” “You always remember things in a way that makes me seem bad.” etc.).
• We are made to feel “less than” (“You are so sensitive.” “You can’t take a joke.” “Don’t you get sarcasm!?” “There you go again, blowing everything out of proportion.” Etc.)
• We are made to feel incapable of a productive conversation by trying to talk to someone who uses word salad and discounts their accountability because of the potential to have different understandings of common words such as “is.”
• We are the ones left eroded, exhausted and isolated in how different our mostly correct reality is from the reality being spun from the sociopath and his/her fan club.
I do hope we survive all this with a better public understanding of narcissists and sociopaths and the damage they do and without someone with psychopathic traits becoming president.
O.N.WARD
Absolutely spot on Donna!!! The only reason (and here I go using the gender card) that Hillary appears to be lower on the spectrum is because she has not had the privilege of being a white male in the US. ALL of them seem disordered!!!
Jill Stein for me!!!! Just because I am socially liberal and we have to think of the culture of our country being changed by the nominees to the supreme court!! The GOP is calling for an America of fifty years ago!!!!! Its scary we have come to this.
Thank you for this article, Donna. It’s very relevant and very timely.
I’ve never forgotten a classic cartoon from the 1980 Presidential elections. The cartoonist (sorry, I can’t recall his name, but he deserved an award for it) depicted the players as characters from the Wizard of Oz, each with a separate lament.
Jimmy Carter was the SCARECROW, saying “I wish I had a BRAIN.”
Ronald Reagan was the TIN MAN, saying “I wish I had a HEART.”
John B. Anderson, running bravely as an Independent, was certainly no coward, so as the LION he was forced to depart from the script by saying “I wish I had a CHANCE!” (He polled 6.7 percent of the votes.)
And poor little Dorothy, representing the VOTERS, stood looking on, saying “I wish I had a CHOICE!”
In spite of that, I’m sorry to say this election year could well be the WORST in history for asking voters to choose between two equally disastrous main candidates.
Congratulations, you think like me, Donna! 🙂
In fact the two main candidates are so obnoxious that MANY choices would be an improvement on both of them! Following on the heels of our first black President, if a number of people would like to see our first female President, I wish someone like Jan Brewer, the previous Governor of Arizona (where I live) would have run. I think she’d make a decent President. But ANYONE has to be better than that Clinton woman! Quite apart from her objectionable politics, I’m well aware of her emotional instability, her infantile temper tantrums and her shocking treatment of the underlings around her. That’s no way for anyone to behave, let alone a President of the greatest nation on earth. What’s more, I have a long memory and haven’t forgotten the sneaky way she tried to foist her version of “health care reform” on us through the back door back in 1993 when her husband was in the White House–until she was exposed and brought up short. I’d trust that hag about as far as I could THROW her–with ONE HAND, against a STRONG WIND! (With acknowledgments to Eric Frank Russell for that felicitous phrase.)
As for Trump, need I say anything? Just to start with, the President of any great nation needs to be a DIPLOMAT (among many other skills), and the words “Trump” and “diplomacy” just don’t fit in the same sentence! The man is so narcissistic he’s a damned fool to think he can get away with what he says without alienating half his audience. And he’s absurdly unrealistic, for instance if he imagines he can get Mexico to PAY to build a wall across the border. Why on earth should they, when they can’t even afford to feed their own people? So how many of us want a FOOL for a President? The best I can say for Trump is that he CAN’T be a real psychopath, when he’s so lacking in the SLICKNESS and the superficial CHARM that psychopaths are supposed to be renowned for! He might be a billionaire, but he comes across like some blustering redneck bully!
Some people have claimed we haven’t had a REALLY good President since Eisenhower! But that of course is a matter of opinion, not to mention the probability of nostalgic bias in the minds of some Boomers. I thought Reagan was OK, but my wife, though a lifelong Republican, never liked him. When I asked her why, she could only say “Because he was an ACTOR!” I don’t know whether to call that “prejudice,” or to call it PROFOUND! 🙂
Whether anyone liked him or not, comparing Reagan, the man they called “the Teflon President,” and (more significantly) the “Great Communicator,” with this year’s main candidates only goes to show how deplorably far politics have deteriorated in a single generation.
Very good article Donna.
This is my assessment of the candidates:
Trump = Narcissists but not a sociopath simply because if you watch his children they are not sociopaths themselves. And there is no way that not one of his 5 kids would not portray genetic traits of a sociopaths if their father was a sociopath. This would just be a statistic fact.
Bill Clinton = Psychopath with Narcissistic personality disorder. He is PURE PURE PURE EVIL. He is a masterful manipulator, con artist, pathological blatant liar, he is able to amass hundreds of millions of followers who hang on his every word and believe every word not matter what proof is in front of their eyes that he is lying. This is a cult leader at it best. He is a blame shifter, masterful puppet master who has raped repeatedly, has zero remorse for these women & the women he sexually assaulted. He is at the top of the spectrum of psychopath trait.
Hillary Clinton = sociopath with narcissistic personality disorder. She has zero empathy for others. “What different does it make now”. I tried in the beginning to give her a little benefit of doubt because she was married to a psychopath and that will push you over the edge to “yell & scream” even in a White House setting. But not anymore she is just as evil as bill. She is so power hungry and would set over anyone and everyone to get in the White House Oval office, even step over Bill & Chelsea.
Hillary is masterful at word salad & spinning everything to nowheresville when she is being interviewed about one of her endless scandals. It reminds me of my ex and if I called him out on his lies he would just keep spinning everything in all directions to a point I simple would be come exhausted mentally from his none sense conversation that I would just give up. Hillary knows too well this approach works every time with the press (so does Bill) and this is why she keeps using this sociopathic tactic and guess what the press gives up just like I did and they move on to a new news subject.
With regards to Chelsea she seems to fit the mold of a narcissist. She never really seems to have a “real” job or worries about bills or anything. She is in her own little la la land. Most people worry about being embarrassed by their family if they have a family member not living up to social norms. Not her. How embarrassing would it be to have a womanizing father who is still womanizing or to have parents who are in endless scandals. If Bill & Hillary were my parents there is no way in hell I would get up on a stage and cheer them on to the White House. But Chelsea literally gushes over her parents “achievements”. Weird & crazy behavior. Her own husband started a hedge fund that lost $25 MILLION dollars of investors money and she was walking round taking photos with him in the park as if nothing was wrong. This family is disfunction on a high scale.
The one thing you have to give credit to Trump for is the fact he has literally BLOWN the lid of the corruption in DC and how the press is in on the gig. The press is just as corrupt as the political parties. So I always read things now with a grain of salt because the press will always sway the voters towards Hlllary. The press literally will turn Hillary’s endless scandals around to make Trump look bad even when he has not opened his mouth.
The press has covered for Bill Clinton’ criminal acts since the beginning when he as running for Governor of Arkansas. I lived in a different state & never heard of Bill Clinton despite being a regular watcher of the national news. Yet a business client who was from Arkansas and still had family in the state told me all the stories about Bill Clintons womanizing and how the state police covered for him. Yet his womanizing never really materialized until Monica Lewinsky even Jennifer Flowers could not get people to see the truth about Bill Clinton during her famous press conference. But it was never mentioned in the press before he became president.
Why did the press cover for Bill Clinton?
The Press & the Democratic party are connected business wise! This is what Trump has exposed.
Who owns Fox news? Rupert Murdoff & a Saudi Prince. Wonder why Fox news is not up in arms with the refugees coming into America from the Middle East? Because the Saudi Prince is controlling what his “reporters” are reporting. Read up on Rupert Murdoff he is a ruthless sociopath and has control over news papers and tv news all over the world. These two have an agenda and it’s not to pass on conservative news to Americas its’ to Brain wash Americans.
And CNN aka Communist News Network is no different then the community propaganda news of Cuba or North Korea. It’s quite shocking once you take the blinders off and see that we are all being manipulated around the world by these sociopaths billionaires behind the wizard of oz curtain who own the press and are really controlling our government. Manipulated by the same tactic your ex used on you.
What is Hillary & Bills agenda? It’s to move America into the One World Government. Who is the One World Government? Its’ the billionaires of the world. It’s sociopaths & psychopaths that are controlling our government & politicians (they are their donors). Politicians are just the front men and they are controlled by the billionaires of the world who are protecting their business investments and controlling the world citizens at the same time so they do not see what is truly going on.
Sound familiar? sound like what you lived through. You thought with your ex that you both were on the same page building a future together but when you finally had a light bulb awakening you saw that he had an secret agenda to take your money, to have control over you for sex, use your home, use your car, use your everything. This is what our world governments are doing. They have a secret agenda to make money for themselves while using the press to feed us endless lies to control us so that their is not an uprising.
For me seeing the truth of this world and understanding who the evil people are did not just open my eyes to not only my relationship with my ex but also to how our government is run but more importantly who we are all being scammed by lots of sociopaths in our government.
The One world government is conquering land without tanks, an army, or guns. How are they conquering land? simple they are erasing borders & taking the power away from each country it is conquering. Hitler used tanks, an army & guns but he failed (thank goodness) but these billionaires have figured out how to conquer land = keep the world citizens in the DARK.
Who is the One world government blending into society? It’s the European Union Government.
Who runs the One World Government = Billionaires of the world aka lots of psychopaths and sociopaths
Do a google search on the following:
Bildaberg Group
Bohemian Grove
Skull & Bones
Rhodes Scholar
Free Masons
It is believe that Bill & Hillary are backed by the Billdaberg Secret Society and also George Sores. Every President that was ever elect has been part of these secret societies. And it is believe that they selected future President and the press pushed that President and belittled other candidates to sway votes in this election they are pushing for Hillary and bash Trump. There are videos on the above secret society that you can watch just google the name with you tube.
Google;
George Sores
Koch Bothers
these are a few Billionaires that are not only funding most of our politicians on both sides to get their legislation passed to make money. But they also have say in how our President & congress/senate handle a situation from an uprising of people against a world government etc etc.
Watch these documentaries listed below they will blow your mind at how the One World government aka European Union government operates and it will show you how all of our politicians go into office with little money in the back and come out multi multi millionaires. You will see that not only America’s government but the World governments are a con game and that every psychopath, sociopath & narcissist run for office to con people and put millions into their own pocket.
Open your eyes and you will see the Wizard of oz DC curtain open wide for you to see the truth about our government. You will be able to connect the dots from your own experience with a sociopath to seeing how all these sociopaths together have destroyed our countries to pocket money. It will blow your mind!!!
Free documentaries on the net:
1) “Clinton Cash everything is for sale = free on the site Breitbert. com
This documentary will show you just how the Clintons have pocket over 100 million dollars into they personal bank accounts via “speeches” and almost a billion into their so called charity aka own accounts. It will make you sick to your stomach how blatant they are with their corruption and will make you sick to your stomach that the FBI, Police and every other government agency just turns a blind eye to their “pay to play” racketeering scam. You will ask the question “Why are our senators & congressmen not doing anything about this = they are running their own scams!!
“EXBRIT the movie” = google with the words “you tube”.
This documentary came about when Britain was voting out of the European Union. What you will see in they documentary is how the EU government was able to form and how they are able to take the rights away from the European citizens. The EU government does not hold elections! NOPE the people running the EU government are selected by their people. They also regulate the hell out of EU citizens and this is part to their power & control over EU citizens. The EU government is a DICTATORSHIP. When citizens can not vote for their leaders = dictatorship.
How does this impact America? This is what the EU Dictator aka One World Government is moving America, Canada & Mexico in the direction of open borders just like Europe where you dont need a passport & soon our currency will be taken away and a new one given out just like the EU government did to Europe.
Try to leave the EU dictatorship is not easy. Its like a cult once your in they dont want you to leave. Read up on the British Exit. After the British won their exit the EU government started fear & smear campaigns. Even President Obama when over to Europe prior to the vote to sway people to stay.
These international trade agreements that our government & the EU government are pushing is part to the conquering of land & people by taking away the citizens control and imposing endless regulations.
Connect the dots from your experience with a sociopath to the large scale of government/politician and how we are all being manipulated by the press . And you will see how it all connects..scary world.
We might not like Trump as a person but he is speaking the truth when he states that both political parties are RIGGED and the press is in on the gig.
When it comes to the press running a smear campaign against Trump think about how your ex ran a smear campaign against you and why he ran a smear campaign against you…
Then ask yourself why the press is running a smear campaign against Trump = They dont want to be exposed!! Just like your ex!!!
And Trump IS exposing every DC’s con game and the politicians, political parties & media are being exposed!!!
It’s actually liberating to see all the sociopaths & psychopaths in DC being exposed!!
jan7 I agree with you and thank you for saying what I was going to say in such an excellent coherent manner. Donna, thank you for such a wonderful article. Having over 50 years experience with these creatures, I am pretty good at spotting these creatures and they are abundant on Capitol Hill.
I had Bill Clinton pegged years ago and have since decided that Hillary is even worse. Bill is a buffoon and womanize who is dangerous on a personal level but does not have the drive for political power that Hillary has. Hillary is much more dangerous to America and our democratic republic. She is pure evil with intent on a worldwide scale. Let us not forget Obama as a full fledged psychopath either subverting our National protection services to try to get Hillary and himself away with acts of treason.
I do not think that Trump meets the criteria for the diagnosis. Sure, he is a blowhard and proud of his accomplishments but he seems human to me; almost staggeringly human with faults and inconsistencies but not smooth enough to be pathological. I do not see the skilled psychopathic liar in him nor the evil intent or lack of empathy that are so visible in the Clintons.
I always said I would vote for any woman president but I have an even stronger conviction not to vote for a dangerous psychopath. If I did not know how dangerous she is I might vote for an Independent or 3rd party candidate, I have before. But I realize that a vote for someone besides Trump is a vote for Hillary and so I cannot do that either.
For these reasons I am a solid Trump supporter. I realize that there is no guarantee in his success but based on his consistent concern for America over the last 30+ years, his pro-America political ideals, his business acumen and being a human (if flawed) being but not a psychopath, I believe that Donald Trump is the last best hope to keep America from a continued decline into a totalitarian socialist dictatorship. Just one more criminal psychopath (Hillary) in the oval office and it will be over for America.
Jan7
“exbrit the movie” does not come up on any searches. are you sure of the title?
Hi Not, try “Brexit the movie you tube”…. (B R E X I T is the spelling/meaning = Britain Exit).
Let me know if you dont find it, it’s worth the time to watch. It’s a little dry but it really does show the parallels to what is happening here in America & Europe. And how the One world government aka European Government is a dictatorship sucking in America, Canada & south America into their dictatorship. It’s shocking to see that we have all been scammed by our politicians just like our ex did to us only on a huge world wide scale.
ps look at sites like:
Drudge Report. com
Breitbert. com
they too will wake you up to what is really happening in DC.
I am honestly kind of bummed to see this discussion on Lovefraud. Certainly none of us really know who these people are, let alone their children. We can see the traits, for certain. But we cannot know for sure, and we are ALL extremely bias (about who we support, and why) based on our upbringing, our religion, how our family’s voted, and where we live in the country.
Mr. Trump is certainly a very sick man. Hillary has lied. Bill too. They all show the signs. But I think all high-level politicians in our country (and likely many the world over) have correspondingly high levels of narcissism. I think it would be pretty dang rare for anyone to want to run an entire country, especially as big and powerful as the US, without thinking way too much of themselves, and without playing the political game pretty hard. This is obviously a super-oversimplification. But my point is who the hell would want the job, unless they were both ambitious and and desiring some serious and focused attention on themselves?
And I bet any one of us could find all kinds of reasons to label every single president of the USA, based on our beliefs and biases. Some Christians hate Jimmy Carter, and he has done some amazing humanitarian things because of his personal faith. Some love Regan. Some hate him and believe he was a puppet. Blah blah blah. I mean none of us can really be totally objective.
I personally think a couple of trumps kids appear VERY disordered. Jan 7 thinks they look pretty normal.
I am also concerned about what will happen in the world after the outcome of this election. But I am more concerned about each parties ‘agendas’ in addition to the candidates themselves. I have LOTS of beliefs that I bet bunches of Lovefraud bloggers would vehemently disagree with. And so, in this way, talking about politicians is a lot like talking about religious leaders Lovefraud. We all have a right to believe anything we like. Regardless of fact. We are fed a pretty steady stream of misinformation. We live inside cultures (which vary from region to region, in the US) that color our view of the world and each other.
So how do decide what to do?
Watching Donald Trump makes my skin crawl. Watching Hillary doesn’t. Donald makes my heart rate go up and makes me feel anxious. I don’t feel that way when I hear Clinton speak, or see her on TV. My gut isn’t reacting to her the way it reacts to Trump. And, yes, I have been reading lots of things about both of them. I am watching the news, listening to their speeches, looking at independent fact checkers. But I still have a limited idea about what is actually true, and what is a lie being told about either.
I do know how I feel inside. Donald is pretty obvious to me. Hillary, if she is a disordered personality, is much more covert. I will never really know is she is a rotten egg.
I just hope we survive the aftermath of all this ugliness. All this prejudice and hate and lying. I hope that whatever happens we might find a shred of humanity left in at least SOME politicians, who are going to be the ones to interpret, and carry out whatever policies come their way.
slimone, thanks for your views. you might want to reread my post…never did I use the word “normal” with regards to Trump’s children…I stated that he is a narcissist meaning he has narcissistic personality disorder = a disorder = not normal. I stated that he did not appear to be a sociopath because his children do not appear to be sociopaths.
I think you are not listening to your gut reaction to Hillary & Bill. And maybe you have not heard all of their scandals dating back to the 80’s. They are CLASSIC sociopaths!! They are covert about their sociopathic behavior = the worst kind of sociopath.
Read up on Bill Clinton’s endless womanizing and raping. YES. many woman have come out to say Bill raped them even dating back to the 80’s they were speaking their truth about him. The press even came out with the truth during the whole Monica Lewinsky debacle. He is pure evil and has raped many woman.
Bill is a con man, he is a known liar, he is an IMPEACHED president, he is a crook, blame shifter, masterful puppet master, he is grandiose..he meets every criteria of a psychopath without a doubt!!
As for Hillary she is just as evil but unlike Bill who appears to be a psychopath, Hillary appears to be a sociopath with narcissistic personality disorder. She can spin anything negative, she is a crook, a liar, a master manipulator all along putting a smiling face to her words. She fits the mold for sociopathic traits. She is very similar to my ex h.
PLEASE watch the free documentary on Breitbert. com called:
“Clinton Cash everything is for sale”.
and you will see just how corrupt and manipulative Bill & Hillary truly are and that they both fall high on the sociopath scale. A least 30 people have died connected to Bill & Hillary. they are pure evil. Hillary IS “a rotten egg” you just have to be willing to see the truth and the documentary I posted will show you just how sociopathic she truly is.
You have to start seeing our government as pure corruption by both parties. And that they all have an agenda to do exactly what our ex’s did to us = have complete control over us = while they pocket our tax payer dollars. The bulk if not all the politicians are sociopaths or narcissists. What you experienced in your own home is on a large scale DC politics. Set a side your past political views whether democrat or republican and just see hillary as a person, bill as a person & Trump as a person. The media brain washes us to pick a side i.e. democrats or republican. Dont pick a side look at the person as whole just like you would if someone came to you home for dinner. Look at them not for voting but as how to recognize a sociopath that might walk into your life.
Experts believe that we meet a sociopath EVERYDAY!! YES!! EVERYDAY!!
and that we have at least one in our circle of friends, coworker or family.
This is scary! This is why it is so important to recognize one right from the get go…and watching this political process we are getting a birds eye look into personality disorders on the Presidential stage.
I’m with Donna with regards to worrying about our countries future.
Jan7-
You are likely to meet far more than 1 sociopath per day. The current thought in mental health circles is that sociopaths make up about 13% of the population. That’s around 3 out of every 25 people you encounter. If you’re in a room with 25 folks, there’s likely to be 3 of them sharing your space.
jm_short
I have always thought they were greater in number than the statistics. It made me wonder how old the statistics were. 13% are CAPABLE of murder without conscience, but what is the percentage of narcissists that act without regard to the well being of others, cut them off in traffic at 70mph… steal… beat children in daycare… not TRYING to murder but not TRYING to avoid what could lead to death either.
I have a much smaller inner circle, and a much smaller proximal circle as well. ALL are treated with dignity but I don’t share person info with those outside my inner circle, nor rely on their words as truth. I find my life is calmer living this way.
NWHSOM- Not only do the stats sound a bit thin, but each character disordered person is capable of conducting multiple harm. They don’t confine themselves to hurting just one person. They target one victim after another, on and on.
There’s debate in mental health circle as to whether the amount is growing, or whether we just notice more of it. I’m inclined to think that the number is growing, and that our permissive, me-centric society, with babies born to addicts, raised in abuse, exposed to media’s misogynist, sexually provocative innuendo and electronic gaming that nulls children’s brains to horror is the root of the problem. Add to that that when a child’s idols are exposed for wrongdoing, it diminishes their value system.
Jan 7, and All….
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Jan 7 I am quite sure Brietbart is not being impartial in their analysis. I also see that a CEO at Brietbart is now helping Trump with his run. This is disturbing.
I don’t really trust their information. A bit too too right-wing conservative.
I am guessing my belief system, Jan 7, would be in direct conflict with your own. That said, I jumped into this conversation and your opinion has been noted. I will now exit this conversation, as I kind of knew I should stay out of it in the first place.
Jan7
Donna presented a well thought out treatise on the craziness we are facing in this election. Unfortunately though, I have to disagree with her conclusion, and here’s why…..
Narcissism exists on a continuum. Some people are more toxic than others. In fact, Freud believed we are all Narcissistic as developing children. Once we reach about 8 years old, we put our Narcissism into better prospective and become more altruistic. At least, morally intact people do. Our Narcissism becomes self-esteem, and everyone needs some to succeed in the world.
Ivanna Trump accused her husband of raping her during their divorce action. We all know that legal settlements silence the complaining party, and it’s very likely that her settlement had this affect on Ivanna. But “The Donald” defended his behavior, not by denying he’d done it, but by saying….. “It’s not rape if it’s your wife.” That was his sole defense. And recently, his attorney repeated that defense publicly. Donald Trump did not utter a single word in descent.
According to Ivanna, Trump was enraged at her doctor because he had operated to close Donald’s bald spot and had caused him pain. He pinned her on the bed, stripped off her panties, flipped her upside down and anally raped her to show her what pain felt like.
The man is a monster. Even if you don’t believe it happened, he condones it happening when he states “It’s not rape if it’s your wife.” Do you really want someone who condones rape or is a rapist in the oval office? He has no emotional empathy, no conscience, and no control over evil impulses. Do you really want this man’s finger on the button that can detonate nuclear warheads around the world?
Trump has a long history of stiffing his creditors. He arranges deals with contractors and then “renegotiates” the deal when the work is done. He has blown through countless vendors because of this practice. Many of his development projects simply have his name on them for sales purposes. If he tried to actually build them himself, he’d have a tough time getting contractors. His reputation, his credit with people who have experienced his deceptive practices is “sub-par.”
He has vowed to apply his credit-destroying practices to the economy of our country. He has filed 4 bankruptcies and thinks nothing of paying people cents on the dollar. For him, bankruptcies and “renegotiating” his loans are common practice. And he has specifically stated he will apply this practice, renegotiating the US’s debts with their creditors.
I was a Corporate Bond Trader with Salomon, and have some insight into how credit markets work. Our economy is underwritten principally by US Treasury Bills. And the US receives an extraordinary rate to support our needs because we have extraordinary credit. There has never been a default of any kind, and never been a discussion of renegotiation of any kind. Our word is literally considered as good as gold to all of our creditors. If it weren’t our debt would become unmanageable and the US could no longer support itself.
Our entire Social Security system is supported by treasury bills. Our debts to foreign nations are supported by treasury bills. Any discussion of “renegotiation” of our debt will cause the downgrading of our government issued notes, bills and bonds and throw the economy of our country, and the world’s economy, into a tailspin. It would make the great depression look like a hiccup.
Trump has no emotional empathy which is why he consistently makes outlandish remarks. When he is called out on them he calls his gaffs “sarcasm.” Sarcasm is a form of humor. There is nothing humorous about the hatred he spews. His claim to “sarcasm” is simply a ploy to deflect realistic looks into the evil of his mindset.
Those of us who blog and write on the impacts of abuse understand that Complex PTSD can, in fact, appear to be Narcissism. Hillary has been publicly derided for outbursts against Bill while they lived in the White House. This woman suffered the most public betrayal and humiliation ever, probably in the history of the world. And the amount of additional betrayals she suffered behind closed doors have likely caused her to have a serious case of Complex-PTSD. But even so, even with the eyes of the world viewing her husband’s ghastly betrayal, she became a US Senator, our Secretary of State, and the first woman to win the nomination for the Presidency by a major party. She deserves our respect, not our denouncement.
Lastly, Trump was sent to boarding school because he physically assaulted a teacher. He was an oppositional/defiant kid. All reports from his classmates and schools show that he was impulsive and that he had a minute attention span. These characteristics are typical of sociopathic development in the making.
A vote for a third party candidate only serves to deplete the votes for Hillary. It is, indeed a throwaway vote at a time that keeping a sociopath out of the White House is of paramount importance.
So I wish I could agree with Donna. I think we probably agree on ‘most everything about sociopaths. But in this case, I have to respectfully disagree.
Jm Short,
let me reiterate ALL of these candidates are disordered individual. I gave Hillary the benefit of the doubt with regards to being a victim of her husband a sociopath. but the more I researched the more I realize she too is disorder and falls in the category of sociopath with narcissistic personality disorder.
Yes, I am well aware of Trumps horrible actions. But I still do not think that he falls into the sociopath spectrum. I think he falls in the narcissists & possible adhd spectrum.
I have know several sociopaths and Hillary & Bill fit the mold on the higher end but Trump does not. This is my own perspective but never the less he is disordered.
The media has manipulated us from day one. They are masters at conning us to pick a “side”…ahh you believe in pro choice you are in this category or if you dont then you are in this category….are you for gay right or not, are you a conserviative or not, etc etc.
It’s all a con game for you to pick a side. The Demorcratic party stands for “this” and the Republican party stands for “that”. But both of these parties are conning everyone my making people select a side. It’s all about votes this is why they are forcing people to pick a side.
But instead of look at a side how about looking at what each of these political parties actually do & accomplish = nothing!! Why nothing because they are being the Wizard of Oz DC curtain cooking up deals that will make them millions. They dont care about the votes they only care about paying their donors back with big government contracts and laws that favor their billionaire donors and putting money in their own pocket.
Just google any politician and see what their net worth is…they walk into office with little in the bank and within years they have millions in the bank some are worth hundreds of millions i.e. John Kerry, Hillary & Bill, John McCain is up their too.
This is what you have to see…that ALL of these politicians have conned Americas out of their tax payers money just like all of our ex’s conned us out of thousands & hundreds of thousands.
Hillary & Bill are the most evil at this game. PLEASE watch the free documentary on Breitbert .com called:
Clinton Cash everything is for sale.
It will shock you AND it will open the wizard of oz DC curtain wide open for you to see exactly what all of these pelicans are really doing in DC = not working for the American people!!!
Also watch the free documentary by googling these words:
“Brett the movie you tube”
It will wake you up as to why we are over regulated, when Obama & Clinton have so many “trade” deals, why our borders are being over run, why our government is truly a mess. Our beautiful America is being sucked into the European Union Government aka One world government aka communist dictatorship.
I dont care how anyone votes. This discussion that Donna Started was about spotting sociopaths & narcissist even in the political arena.
And for me I am just trying to get everyone to see that all of these politicians have a hidden AGENDA exactly like our ex sociopaths had too.
My ex h a sociopath lived a double triple live while scamming me out of everything. This is what these politicians are doing and the media who is owned by the big donors are the people really running our country and these politicians are just the front men like a actor is a front man to ad product like shampoo.
This is what everyone needs to see that we are all be scammed by DC.
Our government on all levels is corrupt and so is our media!!
oops spelling error it’s “BREXIT the movie”
also google George Sores he is the billionaire sociopath that is the puppet master to Bill & Hillary and he is also the guy that payed the protestors from Mexico to protest at Trumps rally…..it’s all smoke and mirrors and the press will spin everything because the political donors also own the press.
Well, I don’t think anyone would deny that we FEEL differently about the candidates! Seeing the smirk on that Clinton woman’s face makes me want to vomit. But you’re right, slimone, it is very much about her AGENDA–the all-important issue!
Redwald
I had wondered about Hillary’s smirk b/c to me, her smile looks like “duping delight”. With her slippery wordsmithing, and putting meaning into other people’s statements, not what they said nor what they meant at all, but the way she redefines what words mean? UGH. SO slimy… like my ex. I used to say Bill Clinton was similar to my ex, “depends on what the meaning of “is” is”.
I predict Hillary to prevail. And We ALL should take a lesson and create their own foundation, with the tax benefits that come with it… such as not having to pay “their fair share of taxes” and yet getting to spend it however they chose.
I address my comment to J.M.Short.
Without a hint of doubt, and I am knowledgable about politics, I agree with your analysis of the differences in character between Clintton and Trump. This is the first time I disagreed with Donna about any of her posts. Undoubtedly she writes with clarity, knowledge, and passion. I applaud her for her effort and attention to detail. However, encouraging people to vote for a third party is similar to having asked voters to vote for Ralph Nader over Gore or Bush. These third party voters helped put Bush in the Whitehouse. I am not going to debate the Iraq War catastrophe but I do blame the decisions of the Bush administration for deliberately misleading the Congress and the American people about Iraq’s role in 9/11 and WMD.
Clinton is not a foolish woman. Perfect she is not. However, Clinton has been able to rise above extremes in harsh criticism and abuse. I believe this factor in itself qualifies Clinton as a survivor and not a predator.
I am NOT knowledgable about politics. And you are correct, she is not foolish nor perfect. But I do have first hand, personal knowledge and interactions with Hilary Clinton. She is an opportunist and completely unethical. She has an unending well of rage. She is an ends-justifies-the-means person who is first and foremost a seeker of power and vengeance. She has NO conscience. If you ever want personal proof, challenge her. You will then have your proof. ME, after my past experiences with her, I try to not be made a fool again…I steer clear and as far from her as I can.
There is NO one to vote for President. I will vote for the ticket with my preferred Vice President and hope the USA is not destroyed before the next Presidential election.
Hi Notwhathesaidofme & Kalina,
Not – thank you for posting your personal encounter with Hillary. It really does reconfirm what I see & read in the media.
Kalina, thanks for your post also. Anyone that has any doubt as to Hillary not being a sociopaths should watch the Free Documentary called
Clinton Cash Everything is for sale
This documentary is shocking to watch. It exposes Hillary, Bill, State Department & the Clinton Foundation that they are running a “Pay to Play Racketeering” scam which IS illegal!!
Even former Mayor Rudy Guilani (sp??) said what they are doing is illegal and a “Pay to Play racketeering” scam and if he was still a district Attorney General he would have Hillary under Federal Investigation and their Foundation.
In this documentary you will see how She & Bill have pocketed 100 Million of dollars in their own pockets with “speech” kick back money and funneled over a BILLION yes BILLION dollars into their Foundation and then it will be moved into their own pockets all awhile manipulating the US citzens. Their blatant corruption is sickening!!! And the fact that the US State Department is in on the corruption and the Department of Justice is some how connect and the FBI and all over over seeing agency simply ignore their corruption because it seems everyone is DC is connected to their foundation even top news media & reporters have all given to this pay to play racketeering scam.
IT’S HONESTLY MIND BLOWING how similar Hillary is to my ex and how she can put a smile on her face & manipulate EVERYONE with her words to make them believe that she is a good person is also sickening.
Hillary = sociopaths
Bill = Psychopath
This free documentary Clinton Cash everything is for sale is on Breitbert. com. This documentary is based on the top selling book with the same title.
Let me know if you watch it, I would be interested in what you think about it.
Take care
Jan7-
Rudy Guliani is straight out of the Donald Trump mode. Married three times. Heartlessly and publicly betrayed his wife. Estranged from his kids for several years. Built a career out of a pit bull fixation with mob cases. Not exactly a ringing endorsement!
Jm_short, this might be true about RG but the reality of this situation is he is right about Hillary & Bill and their Foundation being a “Pay to play racketeering” scam!!
When I was married to my ex h his two coworkers attempted in a not so direct manor to let me know my ex was having an affair with another coworker. Guess what one of the coworkers had been married 3 times and the other never married. So it really does not matter the persons marital status, what mattered was these two co workers who I knew from going to the office & occasional business dinners were actually looking after me. Of course my ex spun everything around that the woman had been married 3 times and switched the focus away form him.
So lets keep the focus on Hillary & Bill and their corruption and their sociopathic traits.
Please watch the free documentary based on the NYTimes best selling book called
Clinton Cash everything is for sale
it’s on Breitbert. com
This is NOT about political sides, like I stated before I really dont care how people vote but what I do care about is focusing on how sociopaths can con their way and spin peoples head away from their abuse, manipulation and criminal behavior.
I personally think that every Senator & Congressman are corrupt. Why because they all end up rich in these positions and if they dont they do not call out others that are being corrupt.
What the free documentary it WILL BLOW YOUR MIND just how blatant the Clintons are and how corrupt the State Department is and the Department of Justice and FBI are right in the mix.
This movie is blowing the lid off how DC politics work!!
Just like it blow the lid off my ex husband and his con game & all his cheating once I truly opened my mind to the reality that his words were all lies!!
Actions speak louder then words…dont believe one word of Hillary & Bills or any politicians!!
Jm-short, AP NEWS is reporting this about Hillary, her State Department position & Clinton foundation.
She & Bill will eventually end up in jail if a special prosecutors is selected to over see this pay to play racketeering scam along with people in the US State Department and maybe even the Justice department.
The whole Clinton con game is being exposed!!
AP NEWS investigation found:
“At least 85 of 154 people from private interests who met or had phone conversations scheduled with Clinton while she led the State Department donated to her family charity (Clinton Foundation) or pledged commitments to its international programs, according to a review of State Department calendars released so far to The Associated Press. Combined, the 85 donors contributed as much as $156 million. At least 40 donated more than $100,000 each, and 20 gave more than $1 million.”
It is difficult for me to argue with someone who has personally known Hillary Clinton. If this is your situation and you have personal first hand knowledge, then I can respect your point of view. I do read a lot about Hillary’s hard-edged temperament. I can accept this as a necessary trait of a female politician who is constantly on guard for the next stab-in – the-back encounter.
Who do you trust? Can I perceive a deceiver or another power grubbing politician? How would I feel if I knew I could do a job, a really good and effective job, while being undermined constantly by people who want to see me fail. Whether in business or politics, evil people exist in droves. I do not consider Clinton a person who fits into this category. She has proven she could do a good job as Senator and as Secretary of State. I certainly could not even come close to handling that kind of pressure. Clinton must have narcissistic traits but show me a successful businessman or politician who does not.
Let’s keep the dialogue going as eventually the real Hillary Clinton may emerge. In addition, most people with big egos and narcissistic traits do not like to be challenged. Some of these people make outstanding contributions despite their ambition and others do not. Thank you for your insights although I may challenge your conclusions. Kalina
Jan7-
There is no evidence that the uproar over the Clinton Foundation is anything but a witch hunt fueled by Donald Trumps inflaming rhetoric. Rudy Guiliani would call a gecko a snake if he got a chance and it made him look like the world’s savior. He created a career out of blowing whistles to self-aggrandize. He and Trump project their own vile mentality on everything they try to undermine.
Did you happen to notice this statement in the AP article?
“The meetings between the Democratic presidential nominee and foundation donors do not appear to violate legal agreements Clinton and former president Bill Clinton signed before she joined the State Department in 2009.”
Jm-short, how about this take an hour and watch the FREE documentary film on Breitbert. com called Clinton Cash everything is for sale….then we can chat.
Please remember that sociopaths love jobs in politics and that sociopaths can be women.
Keep a clear mind and not make this about “politics” but make it about how to spot a sociopath. Even spot a sociopaths in DC there are endless numbers who flock to that city!
Hello! I am in agreement with JMShort. This is an important topic as voting is just around the corner. I am surprised at all the undermining rhetoric being dumped on Hillary. I am not a fool but just very concerned that we are heading in the wrong direction. We live in an economy that is dominated by capitalists whose greed is supported by the very expensive political landscape they are supporting with their contributions. No boundaries between business and politics. The dot com bubble and the housing bubble were fueled by very rich and influential bankers who manipulated the legal system to avoid accountability. People in leadership positions need to be very tough minded and prepared for the war of words at every turn. Please see the whole picture and not just the fragments. Yes, vote your conscience but be discriminating at the same time. The Neo-cons got their way with Bush and just about started “the War of the Worlds”. Terrorism has spread and the neo-cons never took responsibility for their lies to the congress and American people. Whatever one says about the Clinton Foundation it is legal and donates millions to worthy causes around the world. Kalina
Please research what the Clinton Foundation did to the people of Haiti. You might change your mind.