By | December 29, 2008 479 Comments

Entanglements with sociopaths always have consequences

At a Christmas party on Saturday night, the conversation turned to hot water radiators. My husband, who is mechanically inclined, explained to a woman, who was trying to save money by conserving heat, how to bleed the air out of an old-style hot water heating system.

Eventually, the conversation revealed why the woman was trying to save money. She’d purchased an old farmhouse for her business. She secured a $150,000 construction loan to renovate the house and retained a contractor. The contractor insisted on installing the thermostat for the hot water heating system on a wall directly across from a wood burning stove. (For those of you who are not mechanically inclined, this is a really dumb idea.) The contractor also told the woman that she couldn’t insulate the farmhouse because moisture would create a mold problem. (This is true, but it is a problem that is readily solved, and insulating the house is a really good idea.)

Further conversation revealed that the contractor, who was president of some kind of historical building society, had not completed $70,000 worth of work for which he had been paid. The bank repeatedly came to inspect the job, bought the guy’s stories about why the work wasn’t done, and released the next installment of money. The farmhouse owner, of course, signed off on all the payments.

At one point a bank representative asked the farmhouse owner, “Are you sure about this guy?”

“Oh, he’s fine,” she replied. “He’s the president of the historical building society.”

The contractor hasn’t paid the subcontractors, and they’re demanding their money from the farmhouse owner. She hired a lawyer, who went along with a plan suggested by the contractor’s lawyer, which was useless. So now the woman is trying to save her home and her business. Plus, she’s cold.

“Sounds like you’re dealing with a sociopath,” I said.

I don’t know if this woman has any good options. We suggested that she sue the bank, because the bank released the money. But she approved payments, so that may not work. She can’t afford another lawyer. As has happened to many of us who have dealt with sociopaths, she may be stuck holding the bag.

Fort Dix Five

This woman may suffer terrible financial losses. But others involved with sociopaths lose much more.

A few weeks ago, in The con man, the thug and the jihadists, I wrote about the five young Muslim men who were on trial for plotting a terrorist attack against U.S. soldiers at Fort Dix, New Jersey. Most of the prosecution’s case was based on conversations secretly recorded by an informant, an illegal immigrant from Egypt, who was paid $240,000 by the FBI.

I predicted that the jury would see that the informant was a con man who manipulated the young men. I predicted that the defendants would walk. I was wrong.

The five young Muslims were convicted of conspiring to kill military personnel. They were acquitted of the more serious charge of attempted murder because they didn’t actually do anything. Still, they all face life in prison.

Yes, they did go to a shooting range in the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania, shot at targets and shouted “Allahu Akbar,” or “God is great.” They videotaped themselves doing this and brought the tape to a Circuit City store to be converted to DVD. One of them also downloaded violent jihadist videos from the Internet.

But would they have actually have gone any further? Would they have even discussed plans, which were nothing more than vague, wild ideas, if they hadn’t been goaded on by the sociopath, who was being paid to keep them talking?

I know how convincing sociopaths can be, so I don’t think they would have done anything without his encouragement. But I wasn’t on the jury, and the people who were apparently don’t understand sociopaths. So the young Muslims were left holding the bag. They may spend the rest of their lives in prison.

For his efforts, the con man informant, who was twice convicted of bank fraud, was promised legal residency in the United States, courtesy of our Justice Department.

Education is key

The consequences of entanglements with sociopaths are always negative, ranging in scale from unpleasant to deadly.

That’s why Lovefraud’s mission is to educate people about sociopaths. Right now, most people find Lovefraud because they’re already entangled with a sociopath and facing the consequences. We’ll soon announce a new initiative to help people cope with what has happened to them.

But eventually we hope to have programs to educate people about this personality disorder and the red flags of sociopathic behavior. Our goal is to help people escape the terrible consequences by avoiding the predators in the first place.

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Advice needed! Do I seek revenge? My sociopath ex BF has been a secret obsession for years. We met over three years ago and have been on and off for most of that time. Two years ago I found him with another woman (always someone from his church). I was very crushed. When I called him repeatedly to discuss the situation….he called the police to report my efforts. Embarassing on top of searing pain. Two months later he contacted me to apologize. Guess what? I took him back. However, I did this in secret. My family and most of my friends did not know that I did this. I was having a secret affair with my ex boyfriend. A little over a year later he dumped me again for a woman in his church. This was strange because the woman he is still seeing is a woman he did not like before. On top of that she is quite homely and a known shrew. I am neither. What is even stranger I am obsessed by this loss. I cannot forget this man or move on.

Due to the nostalgia of the Holidays, I communicated with him anonymously on the internet claiming to be someone who knew him years ago with interest in connecting. At first he was irritated about communicating with an unknown person, but I worked around it. He ulimately asked for a get together for a date….probably while his current girlfriend was unavailable. When asked his realtionship status he said he was single. I now have all of this correspondence.

He also got in touch with me directly and stated that since 6 months has passed could we be “friends”. I told him no since he is still seeing the woman he left me for. I told him he cannot have both of us.

I have no interest in getting back with this man, however, I would like to see him dumped and feel the pain and isolation of being alone. I have enought evidence and inside info to very cleverly contact the current girlfriend to make her realize what a sneaky freak he is.

Should I do this? I can cover my tracks on this. This woman does not know that behind this supposed religious man lurks a man who is addicted to porn, bottomless strip clubs, sex with married women (one had to have an abortion) and countless other painful acts. I am ashamed of my attraction to this man. I would love to see him humliated and dumped. I was foolish enough to think that I could reform him. Help!!!!!!!!


Remember Mood Rings! :)~
Detection is key! I still think your intuition is going to clue you in quick , esp. after the first encounter! Remember all the little clesheas ! If it looks to good to be true it is’nt! we take for granted these old sayings that mean so much! Read Love in Proverbs , see if you agree? Love is! JJ


If you want Peaceatlast

But He still has you under his controll and he is what your thinking about!

Revenge is a dish best served Cold! I think the cold reality of NC is truely more satisfying in the long run. They don’t feel pain like you and I do ,so your attempts to hurt him are prolonging your own recovery time! LOVE JJ


Thank you for the reminder of the power of NC! Also I am reminded of the concept that “Living well is the best revenge!” Tomorrow I am meeting a new guy who sounds very normal and wholesome. I should meet this man…..take it very slow if he is a good guy AND put all of this unhealthy stuff behind me. I need to be in the center of God’s hands not Satan! The ex is definitely the insturment of Satan. His own adult daughters from his first marriage have thrown in the towel. They do not care about being written out of the will. I need to follow their example. Love to hear from others about if revenge ever works. I think the Bible says, “Revenge is mine, saith the Lord”. It is amazing how a sociopath can distort the thinking!


I am reminded that when I seek revenge against a sociopath, I am stooping to their level. What I need to realize that I am dealing with a sick diseased person. You cannot seek revenge with an illness. To do so causes and infection in your soul. I needed to realize that I am powerless in this fight with real evil. It is not my job to fight evil, it is my job to run from evil. This blog has taught me a very valuable lesson. Thank you again. May others seem themselves here and find Peace at Last!

Elizabeth Conley

“You cannot seek revenge with an illness. To do so causes and infection in your soul.”


“I needed to realize that I am powerless in this fight with real evil. It is not my job to fight evil, it is my job to run from evil. ”

Maybe, maybe not. I think we win a battle against evil every time we choose healthy behaviors and avoid unhealthy ones. When our healthy choices result in good relationships, we win big.

Last week someone tried to convince me that I would never find a church where the personality disordered did not dominate the agenda. Dysfuntionalism, she argued, was normal, particularly in church leadership.

I remain optimistic that even if this is true, my kids and I will be able to build a few wholesome relationships in our new church if we work hard at it. Most people want healthy relationships, and there is still plenty of decency in the world. We’re not setting out to win any popularity contests. We just want a small circle of reasonably well-behaved acquaintances to interact with each Sunday AM. That should be achievable.

After a lifetime of trying to be agreeable to all, reflexively deferring to even the vilest people, it’s not easy to change. Still, if I can grow a spine, anyone can.

We can all do the right by others and right by ourselves at the same time. We just have to learn to police our boundaries better.


My Daddy used to say “when you find the perfect church….it won’t be perfect once you join”. Church is not a museum for saints but a a hospital for sinners. Even in church we need to be mindful that we are worshiping God not the organization. God will guide us to the right place to worship. Church shopping for the right fit is like dating. When you find the right one you really know it. I love Church since it is the one place where I do not get hurt. I attend a large church and pick the ones I get close to very carefully, but that is not hard since God is with me. Seeking good people is a quest where we all need God’s assistance.

Elizabeth Conley


“when you find the perfect church”.it won’t be perfect once you join”.

This makes sense. It’s interesting that you attend a large churh and pick the people you get close to very carefully. This is the strategy we’re trying right now. Hopefully it will bear the same fruit you’ve enjoyed.


I certainly can understand the temptation to seek revenge. I’m sure I would be considering it too. However, keep in mind that the sociopath will only go on to use someone else. He will not feel pain and brokenheartedness in the same way you do. It will mainly be a wasted effort in this regard. In addition, it may backfire on you if the woman doesn’t believe you. He is probably a very effective liar and manipulator and will convince her you are making up stories. You would have to stay in touch with him (or her) to follow up on the outcome, which keeps you in toxic contact. As Donna’s article states, ANY entanglement with a sociopath will have bad consequences for you. The best thing to do is to walk away from all of them, and go to a different church. You really need to detach from this guy and get him out of your system so you can start healing.

I once tried to expose my sociopath on the website I met him on. We have many mutual friends there. It ended up backfiring on me, and I had terrible nightmares about him. Just say no to this urge to exact revenge. You will be better in the long run. Blog about your anger here instead or with a counselor.


Revenge or informant?

This is a slim line we walk whenever we are dealing with a P/S after being disvalued and discarded. I know that I too walk a very treacherous path with the aftermath of my experience with my ex P. When we try to inform the other victim are we searching revenge or informing them of what if? Or maybe I should say am I? Anyway one thing we all acknowledge is that the S’s or this world will search out another victim after but most likely before getting out of the last relationship which then allows this cycle of manipulation and their lies to go unchallenged causing other the same abuse we suffered at their hands. We then have a duty or calling to help other understand as much as possible what this person is really like and that they to might be take advantage of as some point by this person. After informing other we then must walk away and hope for the best concerning the person who was warned. Again is this revenge or just information being pass along to help? Guess each one of us must decided and answer that question in both a personal and spiritually manner.

Good Luck Peaceatlast and hope you will find those answers..

Elizabeth Conley


Stargazer makes a really good point when she says that efforts to expose the S is more likely to harm you than to harm him.

For all the reasons Stargazer gives, get your revenge by living well.

If people know about sociopaths ,they don’t have to be warned. If people don’t know about sociopaths, they won’t accept a warning. Chances are trying to warn the new girlfriend is going to cause you trouble, and she’s very unlikely to benefit.


You all make so much sense because of our kinship in dealing with these people. Good news is that this monster in not at my church. I am much more peaceful about this and am entering the New Year with a very clean slate. Many thanks!


Consider the occupation! If he’s a contractor, he might be a sociopath. If he’s a minister/counselor, he might be a sociopath. If he’s a salesman, he might be a sociopath.

Consider how these people thrive in occupations where they have little peer oversight, run their own hours, and have a lot of opportunity to manipulate the trust of their victims.

I’ll bet the “president of the historical society” was having a heck of a lot of fun, taking the money and reveling in the pain and chaos of all the people around, from the woman with the farmhouse down to the last guy swinging a hammer or a paintbrush. Even putting the thermostat across from the woodburning stove sounds like a conscious destructive choice by this guy.


News Flash!

There is no Perfect Church! If it contains People it by nature will be imperfect! :)~ And This IS A GOOD THingy



I too found the xS/P in bed with someone and took him back. Big mistake. It was two days after we finishd selections for the home we were building. We had agrued that evening. THe truth about him hit me like a ton of bricks. I started questioning the bizarre stories he told me about his life in the military and covert work. I asked the right people. He is now posted on a website, exposing his lies and at some point could be investigated by the feds……

Sometimes it pays to ot do anything. They keep is tied in with the obsessing and the desire for revenge. I think I have come to the conclusion that they eventually sabotage themselves. I head a few days ago that he was fired from his sales job. A few months ago he had heart surgery. I learned he was abusing steroids for years and also has liver and kidny problems.

Sometimes accidents happen and bad things happen to good people. It makes thes people stronger. SOmetimes others get what they deserve. I do believe that they will get what they deserve in time because of their own behavior and disorder. We can certainly ask the right questions to protect ourselves. PROTECTION being the most important thing, emtionally and otherwise. Protecting others is not part of it. I appealed to his sister to help him when I as inormes of the lies he had told. he made excuses. His daughters behave as badly and live in denial. Others won’t get it until it happens to them. The S/P doesn’t feel the pain of it all because they blame and it is always someone elses fault. They just move to the next victim.

Protect yourself and move on as much as possible to rid the best and worst thoughts of him from your life. NC is the only thing that works. THe rest is out of our hands. God, karma, whatever your belief…….takes care of the rest.


I started a blog on my reptile website called “sociopaths among us”. My goal was to educate my community about them and perhaps eventually expose my particular sociopath for what he was. What happened was there were one or two women who knew what a sociopath was because they’d been played by one. It was painful for them to reopen those old wounds again. (strike one) The rest of the members behaved as if I were talking about UFO’s and the Lock Ness monster! “Oh, I don’t believe in that.” “There’s no such thing as someone who is all bad”…..etc., etc. Some of these people are known acquaintances of the S. I ended up looking foolish (strike two). In addition, I had nightmares all night that word of the thread got back to the S and that he came after me and tried to kill me (strike three). I had the thread removed the next day. I found that self-protection far outweighed any benefit I would get from exposing him to the community.


As the fog lifts….I remember that I read somewhere that in seeking a partner the key was to find someone who is emotionally healthy. Doing this will eliminate 70% of the reasons people seek divorce. There is no way a person who is: (pick one) sociopathic, narcissitic, or a border line personality is healthy. I do not have the resources to make this person healthy. My main job for my daughter and myself is to be emotionally healthy. Steering clear of damaged people is Priority one for me for 2009. Thank you all for helping me come to this answer! You all are my Angels.


“He is now posted on a website, exposing his lies and at some point could be investigated by the feds—”

I too posted on some websites trying to warn others about her and all the possible harm she will do if allow too. I too also know that she fraudulently bank thousands of dollar from this state and if ever prosecuted would spend a great deal of time in prison. In fact I believe to this day she is still using this or another type of con on other states she may be living in. In fact (a very long time ago) she told me this very thing. Her words were “it’s different here in Wisconsin then Illinois trying to get government assistance” meaning that they (I think) check out people more fully then Illinois when applying for food stamps and medical insurance. One thing I believe to this day is that sociopath’s unless caught or stopped will never change the game plan. And will cheat lie and manipulate the system for as long as they can! My ex is the same and I have seen it with my own eyes! They just don’t care who gets cheated hurt just as long as they get what they want..



I’m so sorry. They do “learn the system” so to speak and I also think they are extremely intuitive about reading people. A dr once said to me that the XS/P was reading me like a blind man reads brail.

In my situation he lied about being a POW and in special forces which is now against the law. I just happened to ask the right people about him and they posted the rest. Tey take this stuff very seriously. Unfortunately, he is not at the top of the list to beinvestigated until he does something more serious ad even then, it’s difficult to prosecute.

I also say the con man in action as he portrayed himself to me as a tough, hard woking sales man with an education, former military. None of it was true. he WAS a salesman but not a very good one. he spent more time in the gym than at work. Now he is with a woman who is 18 yrs younger, former stripper on welfare and her brother lives with him. He was released from prison a year ago for almost beating a man to death in a bar fight….. So he changes his appearance to fit the situation I guess. Now he is an unemployed redneck, hanging out with trailer trash (sorry I know I sound judgemental) but it’s all part of the game. Who is he really? Not sure anyone will ever know.

Ox Drover

Dear keeping_faith,

People who live in chaos like that, regardless of whether they are wealthy or on welfare, are TRASH! I’m from the South and the word “trash” (as in “poor white trash” and the more modern version of “trailer trash”) all boils down to the fact that they are TRASH.

Some of the WORST trash in our area are some of the more “upstanding” citizens–who lie cheat, steal, embezzle and “use the system”—but stealing from taxpayers in large amounts unlike than the “trailer trash” who generally only rip off the taxpayer and other “poor people” for what little they have.

The less successful trashy folks go to the “food pantry” for poor people because they are too lazy to work, and thus deprive people who really need that food from having it.

Neither Money, nor education or social polish can in my opinion keep someone from being trash; and poverty, ignorance and even stupidity doesn’t make you trash.

Hey, if some trash like Bill Clinton can make it to the white house, and what’s his face can be Governor of Illinois—there is hope for the human trash of this world to climb to great heights in politics and business. I rest my case.


revenge got me nothing but looking like an idiot or a raving lunatic. Even when she assaulted me for the third time and I finally called the police(they didnt believe me either)They are much better at their games than we will ever be. And my yearning for revenge has escalated since Ive gotten the courage to finally stay away from my crazy “S”. Im still in the beginnings of getting her out of my life for good and because of this website I can see and distinguish what she doing with her actions and words. Just a couple of days ago she showed up at my house all crying saying saying she didnt want me to leave her and saying all the right things. I stuck to my committment to myself(even though I just wanted to take her in my arms) and told her to leave. which she did driving away in some other womans car(LOL). then the texts started saying that she never appreciated me enough, she never told me I was beautiful enough and she couldnt live without me,etc. And then I got pissed off because I knew this was a ploy of hers so I broke the no contact rule and emailed her telling her what I thought of her and that she needed to stay of my life forever. Do not contact me,email me,text me, or ever show up at my house again! and what did she do? A 360……..just hrs before she was telling me how she couldnt live without me and all this sob crap and I got a manuscript back from her dogging not only me and twisted things she had taken from our personal lives, she attacked my family saying they were trailer trash, she said I was old and broke(I pretty much am because of her) that if she couldnt love the one she wanted she would love the one she was with! And she know of one dream in my life that I always have regretted that didnt come true for me and she told me that I was crazy for ever thinking I could have that dream because I never did stand a chance at having it! She even attacked my faith because she witnessed me giving my life to Christ over a yr ago and now I am a musician for this church. Even though a month after she did the same thing(so fake she is) ang guess what? Now my revenge level is even more escalated!!!! But I know that my revenge is getting my life back and getting her sad existence totally out of mine. In a way I guess I can correlate my leaving as a sort of rehab situation. I have to retrain myself not to succumb to patterns of behaviour that pretty much destroyed my life


You ask
“Should I do this? I can cover my tracks on this. This woman does not know that behind this supposed religious man lurks a man who is addicted to porn, bottomless strip clubs, sex with married women (one had to have an abortion) and countless other painful acts. I am ashamed of my attraction to this man. I would love to see him humliated and dumped. I was foolish enough to think that I could reform him. ”
But if you read your own post, YOU knew a lot of bad things about him and still took him back. If you tell her, why should she react any differently? That will only leave you even more frustrated…

I found out about my P, dumped him, notified all the other women on the dating list I had met him through, and found FIVE others he was “playing” with. As a result, I now have three new girlfriends and we meet now and then to tear his character to shreds! Great fun and very cathartic and it serves to remind us why we are all there when any of us weaken and beging to believe it can’t have been all bad!

He has even reported to one of the others that I am now stalking him, (no way! And he doesn’t know we know each other) so she and I have notified our local police stations that, should anything happen to either of us, this is his name and address. We are all convinced that the “game” he has been playing is beginning to lack excitement for him and he will step it up a level and become dangerous, but there is nothing the police can do about our suspicions until some poor woman gets hurt. Hopefully then the evidence of the four of us will help.
We have analysed why the P managed to get round us as well as he did and there is one thing in common: we all had bad marriages where we were “trained” to accept the blame for the things that went wrong. Consequently, when our instincts told us something wasn’t quite right with the P relationship, we all went back to old habits and assumed it was our own baggage causing the problem! A very valuable lesson to learn – if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck!



thank you for the clarification and your support. And you are absolutely right. Trash comes inall shapes and siszes and from all socioeconomic backgrounds.

By the way, the XS/P was apparently fired from his job. I guess they can’t keep up the fake appearances forever. I also heard the x stripper is living with him now along with her jailbird brother. THis is the house I built and picked out every item in it. But I look at it this way. I would be paying for everything now, even the dysfunctional adult daughters. THe last cconversation we had before I ditched him a year ago had something to do with the fact that he had just moved in, already had a $30,000 line of credit going on the house and had two more years of college to pay for which wasn’t saved. He had boutght a four wheeler (the redneck was starting to com out) and he told me if I pay off his line of credit he would just put my name on the house…… I DON”T THINK SO!!!!!!! I had heard he had heart surgery also. The affects of steroid abuse were catching up, along with liver and kidney problems. AND his testicles weren’t small from being tortured. They were small because he used HGH over a number of years. God help me to get past all of this. A year later and I am still angry.


oh yeah! My ex (sociopath) is in construction. In fact when he was with me I had him do all kinds of work on my house and business. EVERYTHING HE DID I HAD TO REDO!
He also did NOT insulate my house…which is sidded over log. This house has to be gutted out, room by room, to rid it of crumbling plaster. Then it HAS to be studded up (like a new house) AND INSULATED THEN DRYWALLED!!! The schmuck just put drywall on top of crumbling plaster. Looked good but WAS EFFIN COLD!
The plumbing. Let’s talk about the plumbing he had his contractors that were affiliated with this company he worked for. They put the plumbing (which had none when I bought the house) or ran the pipes so that the basement door wouldn’t shut or open!!! He says,”Use your wizord of oz doors!” Then in the bathroom, he put the vanity sink in on an OUTSIDE WALL– so that we had to open the doors to put a heater pointed into the pipes under my sink! OMG!!
I would PAY HIM through the company and I’m suspecting he got the leftovers! Meaning–they paid him what I paid in over charges because DUMBY ME, DIDN’T GET ANY KNID OF BREAK DOWN ON WORK OR PRODUCTS OR ANYTHING! I just wrote the check to his bosses name and he got his cut out of that!!
OMG!! he did other crap that is too much to go into on here–but i was soo devestated I got down to 88 pounds! That’s how much i weighed! WHAT THE HELL WAS MY BODY THINKING??!!!! I AM SOOO GLAD HE’S GONE! He was so much trouble…constantly I had to reassure him that my dogs didn’t come first (YES THEY DID….)…He’d say,”You don’t love me…you love the dogs more!!! –as he’s kicking the sofa behind him.
I am sooo creeped out today!!! I DID A STUPID THING. I have a my space account and I’m trying to keep in touch with his kids (who were 6 and 3 when i met them) Now they are 18 and 21yrs. old. So after trying to keep in touch…(they were so mean to me! The girl put her tampon wrappers in between my matress and boxspring–what the “H” was this about?) I looked him up on there, and there was his creepy face!!! omg. HE HAD ONE FRIEND. Some women who LOOKS JUST LIKE ME!!! (of couse it was not me!) And she wrote all kinds of stuff…like “I love him he’s mine now “b”and stupid stuff…I JUST BLOCKED HIM! I don’t EVEN want to see his FACE! It’s so evil looking anyway! He is bald with a long goatee! AND THAT STARE!!! WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING?
The kids were 16 and 12 when we broke up and sometimes when I put my sign up, I see him driving by. Why does the shcmuck do that?!!! He left End of story! But the kids I feel like I should keep in touch with. I helped them with their school work and had them everyother day and weekends too! Now they’ve turned against me…should I have NC with them also? Should I block them from that internet thingy too? I mean the girl seems so angry!
Even though I NEVER post on here (well it’s been awhile) I still read what you all say! It’s been four years and I’m still TRYING to rid him in my thoughts –g-d that was sooo creepy yesturday! My choice was to go take a pill or go to the movies…went to the movies. Anyone proud of my lonelyassself?
You all are here and that helps even if you don’t write me back. hairellen here!


I didn’t know anything about Sociopaths, never heard the word before.. until I had the misfortune to get involved with one, it seems that the Americans are far more aware of them even if these evil people are everywhere in the world. I cannot understand why we in London are not educated about such people, why there are no programmes on television to warn people of such evil so we can avoid the inevitable pain, it is amazing that people that i’ve spoken to, don’t know anything about them – including the police!
Ignorance is NOT BLISS!


Oh tryingtoheal–don’t kick yourself! There’s all kinds of studies coming out that’s on the internet THAT’S FROM THE UK. I am surprised that you haven’t seen those blogs/ or utube videos! The UK. is so much more up and coming then the US!! JUST GOOGLE IT BABY!
Seriously, have you got on to Dr. sandra Brown’s site called “The institute for reduction of regional relationship harm?” Holy cow! I don’t have it right! But just google DR. SANDRA BROWN–SHE WROTE some great books and she’s doing some work (her life’s mission!) to educate and heal women and men who come across these “missing” (part of the brain) types. She’s GREAT! She’s written and published books and articles for like thirty yrs.!
OMG! I wish she was my mother or at least a sister!

Ox Drover

Dear Hairellen,

You asked about NC with his kids too, but you answered your own question–“they are against me”

ANYONE that was or is connected to the X should be NC because it keeps the “connection” IN YOUR HEAD.

Even plotting revenge against him, or thinking about him keeps the “relationship” going emotionally.

I’m glad you are stillcoming here and reading, because learning about these creeps is the only thing that will let you eventually get them out of your head. Knowledge=Power. Take back your power! Forgive yourself.


(((((hugs)))))) God Bless you!


Thank you, hairellen, I shall look her up! …tho I would much rather have learned about these evil ******** before I met the ‘S’ so I wouldn’t need to be healed..! Thats just it, you learn about all this – AFTER THE EVENT!!!
I hadn’t known such evil existed- I looked up abuse on google, and arrogance and.. there he was in black and white, I spent the next 3 weeks and sometimes, like now, learning more and more, just how DARE the police say I’m not qualified!! How much more qualified do I have to be, like all of us here, we’re all fully qualified!!! We have a first hand damned degree! How I hope I don’t get conned again.. Aaarrrghhhhh
Happy New Year hairellen, peace and happiness..and thanks x


Having just read your experience, Hairellen, sounds like you are over-qualified – how HORRENDOUS!
Hope being here will help you rid him of your thoughts, though I know its easier said than done – every time I think he’s gone – he pops up again in my mind or in one of those ‘private number’ calls.. but I think its getting easier.. and I wish this for you and everyone on here…PEACE and true love xx


Hairellen, ironically, my son is with someone with borderline disorder and………. had a child with her… long story but his xmas present is STILL on the table – she forbids him having contact with me and my daughter, has lied, had him put in a police cell and…..tried to have me arrested a week after my fathers funeral – I had text my son, that was my ‘crime’ – because she forbid him to go to the funeral – she wanted to be the centre of attention!
I was eventually arrested on her pathological lies and put in a cell for 2 hours… after other things she has done after that, I am told, by the police that she WILL be arrested – when they have the time to do it – ( knife crime, murder and the like.. must take precedence)
I am now trying to overturn the caution I accepted (stupidly) just to get out of the police station and then…. I met my sociopath.. who tried to help me with HER! and now at the end of the year I have the ‘flu and had xmas with – my tv! Yes.. roll on 2009


I LOVE YOU OXDROVER! Right now I’ve got this RAGING headache! And I guess you are so right about ridding these people in my thoughts and on a stupid my space page–BUT WHY AM I SO SCARED? WHY THE HELL AM I SCARED TO BLOCK THESE PPL.? Is it because NOW I’ll look like I’m upset with these ex.’s? And they’ve won AGAIN…with my emotions.
G-d what a skin head he looked like! REAL CREEPY–I must of been hypnotized! It’s that stare that I can’t get past now! OMG whwhwhwyyywhywhywhywhy….did I! WHAT WAS I THINKING? I MEAN REALLY.

Tryingtoheal–I find that it could be twenty yrs. ago, and I am still being attracted to these types of ppl. I mean, all these crazies! Women friends, men as boyfriends or husbands and EVEN my family. I look at myself and feel jipped….like somethings wrong with me! Like I am at fault…and i’m not asking for anyones sympathy here but There is something about me that is wrong. I just wish I had the money to get the counseling that I need to rid myself of these weirdos. I mean, just my association with him and every weirdo out there –It’s my damned fault. Not very strong of me huh?


hey everyone…

its been a long time since ive written anything. iam always checking in and reading updates and seeing how everyone is doing. i see there are some new people here trying to heal and deal with these sociopaths.

im doing pretty good. i go days sometimes week without thinking about my x, then something triggers me and i think about him, or us. its been over 6 months since the break up and i’m still sad sometimes. i’m sad that im not farther along the healing process. i feel like im never going to meet anyone who i have feelings for like the x. he was my best friend and its sad. i loved that man with all of me.

new years is tomorrow and this year i just dont feel like doing anything. there is not one person i want to be with. i want to be alone. i miss that coupled up relationship stuff and i dont have it.. even after 6 months i still miss parts of him..or maybe just parts of the relationships….anyway hope everyone has a great new years and be safe…

Healing Heart

Hi Blondie,

I’m one of the “new” folks on this site, and its good to read your post. I broke up with my ex 10 months ago, but then did some back and forth (once a month got together with him when I felt like I couldn’t go on without a hit) until 4 months ago when I went NC. The NC hasn’t been pure because he has continued to email/text/call, though it is dying out, mercifully.

I’m definitely feeling much better than I did 10 months ago, 8 months ago, 6 months ago – but still feel sad, at times, that I am not further along. I was only with this man for 9 months, but its been so painful trying to recover that I feel like he has taken up almost two years of my life. I want to be “over” him. But like you, I have a hard time connecting with other people, and often want to be alone. For a long time I PUSHED myself to spend time with others in order to keep myself busy and try to propel myself to move forward. I’ve done less of that more recently – though was with family a lot (and it was nice) during the holiday.

I, too, feel afraid that I will never have a relationship like the one I had with the ex (the imagined relationship – but it sure as hell felt real). I’m afraid I’ll never get over him and move past it. That he’ll always haunt me to some degree.

It bothers me that he treated me so cruelly, I KNOW he’s an S, yet I still have fond feelings for him at times, and think about him with some longing on occasion.

Thankfully I mostly feel angry or repulsed by him. But I want to feel nothing. I don’t want him taking up any more of my energy.

This site has helped alot. And probably prevented me from going back to him again and again. I’ve been reading this site for 10 months, though only posting for 3 weeks.

I hope you hang in there, blondie. You are a power of example for me

Ox Drover

Dear Hairellen,

Thanks sweetie! XOXOXOX

I have had a “series” of Ns and Ps in my life, and I too knew there was SOMETHING About me, ME, that flashed a neon sign that said “PICK ME, I’M A GREAT VICTIM!”

Yes, I think there is something about ALL of us (both positive things and negative things) that make us ALL GREAT VICTIMS.

Each of us must find what is in him/her self that is the negative things, and also the positive things.

I realized that for some reason in my childhood that I did not develop APPROPRIATE BOUNDARIES ON HOW I ALLOWED PEOPLE TO TREAT ME, especially people who were “family friends” or “family members.” Okay, that’s a problem so what to do about it.

Start to learn to set boundaries WITH EVERYONE. And, to realize that I have a RIGHT to set boundaries with anyone, that NO one should be allowed to mistreat me no matter how much I love them.

Well, I also reaized that it is RISKY to set boundaries, because if people don’t willing respect those boundaries, you may lose the relationship entirely. You may have to “divorce” them, (NC) like you would a husband who beat youo or refused to treat you with respect. And that’s a KEY WORD—-RESPECT—-I had to develop RESPECT FOR MYSELF.

I do NOT deserve to be treated without respect.

ANY ONE who treats me with disrespect does NOT love me.

Therefore 2+2=4 and I can conclude that I do not want anyone in my “circle of trust and love” who does NOT respect me. Guess what? That included nearly my whole darned family! My mother and my P son. And, for a while, my son C who was married to a person with a personality disorder because it was “her way sor the highway” for him, and at the time he chose to stay with her UNTIL HE SAW THE TRUTH FOR HIMSELF, when she and her BF tried to kill him. Why did he stay with her for 7+ years when she had abused him almost the entire time? Because his mother (ME!) had trained him to, just like my mother had trained me to put up with the abuse.

Well, now, my son C and I are healing, together and separately. We are back in a sustained, committed and honest relationship with boundaries on both our sides.

My adopted son C had been trained to accept that kind of abuse because I had done that to him. I had to accept this “bad” part of my life, and what I had done to my own son. Sure, he had choices, but at the same time, I realized that part of his accepting abuse was because of ME. I apologized to him for this. He apologized to me for “not believing” me etc. WE RESTORED OUR RELATIONSHIP, but on an IMPROVED BASIS. A better basis.

Fortunately, I did have my adopted son D who stood beside me and believed me the entire time, but I had not influenced him the way I had with son C (who is older) so in a way, I did a better job in my relationshp with him,a nd he has a better grasp of healthy relationships than C and I did. Part my doing and part other (I didn’t raise him from early childhood.)

Tryingtoheal, my advice to you is to just hang on to your hope for your son, his relationship with her may not be permanent, many times it takes them a long time to get out, and I prayed for my son, and eventually he got out.

Blondie, I suggest that for a while longer you don’t think about finding another relationship, that you FOCUS on yourself, AS yourself. Six months may seem a “long time” to go without dating and a year or more may seem like “FOREVER” but it takes a long time for us to retrain our brains, minds and hearts to be independent and strong enough to not just go out and pick another “one”—we need to be independent and WHOLE in ourselves, with ourselves before we can be really a WHOLE part of a healthy relationship. I think so many times the reason we get sucked into another one is the fact that we are LONELY, vulnerable, “missing something” and we think a relationship will solve that lonliness etc. and It won’t. I wish it would, but usually we make some baaaaad choices when we are lonely. (((hugs))))


Oh g-d and I’m so lonely. but looking at that creepo, I thank g-d he did to me like he did…yup. I might be lonely, but thank my lucky stars HE’S EFFIN GONE BABY! I think it was supposed to happen that way. Because he always told me that if I broke up with him he’d “plow through my hair salon with his Dakota truck.” Wow I guess it was karma he left me like he did because otherwise I might still be dealing with his arse. Happy New Year EVERYONE –(if I go back to hiding again) Ellen


Perhaps somewhat off the thread but I had an epihpany last nite that I wanted to share with you all.

I have been realizing that I need to go back to before the P to understand how I could be conditioned to accepting his fake reality and constant stealth abuse for decades.

I think the connection is that as a neglected and unwanted child, of parents who were traumatized by two world wars, I grew up with “unlove”. At a very young age I ran away – 13 – and continued in my youth to act out, act recklessly, promiscuously etc. Seeking love. And finding, invariably, unlove.

All of my previous relationships were deeply flawed, at least two were N’s, one had recovered from a physcotic episode but became raginly jealous and physically abusive, one kidnapped my daughter when she was two and left me without news for several months, (he was the father), one was totally emotianlly unavailble, ALL of them gave me UNLOVE. Sooo…..

As I learned to finally eke some love out of my likely N dad, ( my mother has horror stories even by lovefraud standards), I did it by being tough, by standing up to him (NOBODY DID THAT), by drinking with him, talking politics and science with him. By giving him the companionship, attention and SUPPLY that he wanted.

And when it came to relationships, boy oh boy, the tough, powerful and successful types? Very fascinating to me. And I afterall had proven that I could handle them,right?

Little did I know that I had hit the jackpot of P/S/N/ land, working in the brokerage business. When I think back how openly and gleefully they lied cheated and so on. Captains of industry. Masters of the universe. These were the people that drove the engine that made the country run. This was the source and the root of prosperity and so on. I was indoctrinated and I believed.

But I digress. My point is the pool of men I was exposed to were very socipathic in their business lives, cheating on their wives was the norm and it was all for the common good, afterall.

I realize now of course what a nasty crooked rigged game the whole thing is, and how likely most of the big players were at least N’s. I was sprinkled into the mix with a few other naive and impressionable innocents.

In any event, having come from “unlove”, I think it likely that I have been attracted to “unlove” all along. I just kept telling myself each time that this one is different.

The last one I hung onto for decades out of sheer determination not to be wrong, denying all the massive red flags, denying my misery, papering and pasting over all the places that my fantasy was in shreds, determined, no matter what to be a family, to raise my kids with a dad.

He played his role very well. Beautiful cards and roses on birthdays and christmas, for a while. But it was always “unlove” in action, glossed over with the words that kept me hooked, despite having ceased to love him many years before. In fairness he was always there for his kids, not emotionally, but there.

I guess the question is, having fled misery and dysfunction in our own families, are we really doomed to be attracted to those that will make it impossible to break the cycle?

I agree with all who have posted about educating, and for us survivors, I guess it is never to late to learn. One defining factor of the P is the inability to love. “Unlove”.

It is our nature to seek out that which we know. If we have only known “unlove” we must relearn the process. Perhpas even better, be at peace without seeking, and real love will come.

Peace to all,


blondie: good to hear from you. seems we are all plodding along in our healing; good days, bad days, angry days, s/p thought-free days.
i’ll be all alone on new years, too, and i don’t mind one bit. this is a time to meditate on moving into a new year, leaving behind what we do not want to take with us into a future full of wonderful possibilities.
i wish you — and everyone here — peace and healing.

Healing Heart

Hey everybody – I will be spending NYE on my own, too. I got several offers, but decided that the best way to handle closing up 2008, would be to do it on my own. Like LOG said, this is a time meditate on moving into the new year.

Yes the road to recovery feels bumpy, and full of good days and bad days. I know I’m progressing forward, but I get frustrated when I have a “bad” day after having so many good ones in a row. And, I’m tired of being hurt and angry. It’s getting better, but I want it to be gone! Maybe God doesn’t want it to be gone until I’ve really, truly, learned the lessons delivered through this devastating relationship.

May 2009 be year of healing, joy, peace, and serenity


Healing Heart~ i feel like i relate to you so well. all your fears and emotions i feel as well. one of my biggest fears is that i’ll never get over him. this is the hardest break up ive ever gone though. as much as i know my x is a big fat loser and is the not the guy for me, i still have those feelings sometimes for him. when you lose your best friend or the friend you thought you had, its a long healing process. I just want it to be over!

welcome to lovefraud my dear, and it was good to meet you..keep in touch we will heal together!!! 🙂


I’ll be alone too………well, except for my best friend , my =^..^= !

One thing I can say now that my life is calmer and more peaceful………I’d rather be alone than wish I were!

Best Wishes to everyone for 2009.

Eye of the Storm

Ox Drover

Dear Eyeswideshut,

Good post! thanks for sharing!

I guess I just “got lucky” to have married my late husband, he wasn’t “perfect” by any stretch of the imagination, but he never abused me and we sure had a LOT OF FUN together and he was always encouraging me, always there, not ego-driven, and gosh I miss him!

I am glad I had that, but I sure do not want any more “UNlove” it is too painful.

My sons and I have decided to stay home (off the highways with 20% of the drivers over the limit for drugs/alcohol) and just “party” at home the three of us together! WILD NIGHT! LOL

Eye, I LOVE your “cat” that is cute! We will have the dogs in I imagine, and my son’s two cats! Normally dogs have masters and cats have STAFF, but in our case the dogs have US trained. They sit up spontaneously and then we pet them. So I am not sure WHO is the master/trainer and who is the trained animal! LOL

Healing Heart

It sounds like a lot of us have chosen a solitary New Year’s Eve – I think that’s a good sign, and a sign of healing. Time to reflect. I just have gotten so tired of going to social events I don’t want to go to in order to “act” happy, and act like the kind of person I want to be – a happy person who puts on lipstick and cute clothes, and smiles and laughs. Not that I want to be a sad sack and mope around in misery, but I know that I have to do this grief work, I have to allow myself to feel pain – or least be thoughtful about the pain. There have been so many times I’ve attempted to dodge pain through jumping into a new relationship, partying, or just plain, refusing to feel the pain. It’s time for me to grieve and to the work I need to so that I never need to learn this lesson again.

I’m going to have fun, too. I won’t avoid that! Nor will I allow myself to become depressed.

And, someday I hope to fall in love with a really amazing man who treats me just as well as I treat him.

And for that, I need to stay the hell away from the S. It’s not always easy, but I need to do it!!! I want that b**stard out of my head, my heart, and my energy field, altogether.

Blondie, thank you so much for the warm welcome and the invitation to heal together. You are my sister, already – THANK YOU —HUGE HUG


OxDrover wrote….”Normally dogs have masters and cats have STAFF…”

HAHA! This is true! The title to my house is now in the cat’s name! Gosh! Does that make her an “S”? She was a street cat I rescued. Now she sits in the recliner! Talk about manipulative and exploitive!

Ox Drover

QUOTE” “manipulative and exploitive!”

Yea, that’s about the truth! LOL

I frequently tell folks I like my dog better than most people I know—he’s more honest, he doesn’t fake anything, and the worst thing he would do is poop on my flowers. LOL You can’t say that for most people you know, and especially the Ps. LOL


When I wonder how I got suckered in, I remember how my sweet, smart, loving dog — Australian shepherd, smart boy, 7 years old at the time — was completely enamored of the P. That is until one day, suddenly, my dog began trembling uncontrollably, rolling his eyes around the P, “clinging” to me. I thought he had some neural disorder, it was so pronounced — shaking so that the whole bed under him was vibrating like one of those old-fashioned motel mattresses where you put the quarter in the machine . . .

I saw the P comfort my dog, watched him take away the fear . . . but it never worked completely. I believe now that my dog saw him drop the mask when I was out of the room and it so completely disoriented my dog that he went into shock.


Hello Tryingtoheal: The BBC did a fine three-season series called “House of Cards” that dramatizes psychopathy in government. I stumbled into it and was astounded at how well the series showed the central P, and all his little accomplices, and how he wove the net and compromised people of higher moral values so he could use them to his ends.


The BBC also did a series based on Jacqueline Tey’s book “Brat Farrar.” Excellent story, and if you know what a “P” smells like, you’ll recognize the character.


Peaceatlast I really do think you should leave well enough alone and not involve yourself in another relationship with this man. It won’t be a romantic relationship, but it will still be an involvement – which might backfire and end up making you look the sicko… Imagine the satisfaction he would get from that.

Its tough, but try move you life to a better place.

If you were to look at this relationship from the 3rd person perspective (ie standing outside and looking in) what do you suppose was the point of the lesson?

For instance my experiences – although different to yours – have shown me the importance of.

1. trusting my own recollections
2. standing up for my truth
3. not going along with someone else’s lie.
4. realizing that some people “just don’t get it”.
5. realizing that evil is real and it can only be contained, not cured by us.

Can you think back to where you were in your life before you met this person? Can you go back a few months. Were you happy with the direction of your life? Your job, your living conditions, your other relationships, your physical conditions?

With a bit of introspection maybe you can work out what made you a target for this creature and work on strengthening that vulnerability, so that you aren’t trapped again.

Don’t forget the best revenge you can have is by living the best life possible.


Rune: That is so true about animals knowing about the character of people. I’ll tell you this true story about a German Shepard dog that my sister owned.

After H.S. seven of us (my friends and my sister) moved out of our parents homes and rented a Colonial house. We had my sister’s Shepard and a Doberman puppy … along with our friends cats. With seven girls renting a house … guess what happened? Yup, every guy who liked us showed up to our house morning, noon, or night. There would be 30-40 kids over at any given time … and that was the low end of the spectrum …. of how many people showed up on a daily basis.

Anyway, my sister’s Shepard was so friendly to most people … and at that time in our life (still in our teen years) we were opened to most people coming over. However, the dog would pick up on the bad aura of those guys that weren’t quit right. He’d sit at attention staring at some strange guy and be pretty brisks with the person. We reprimanded him the first time he did this with one guy that came over with our guy friends. Months down the road we all found out what a evil person this character really was. All of us loved the dog and we never questioned his instincts again. Actually, we’d purposely brought the dog into the living room to sniff out any new person (male or female) that came to our house after that. If the person didn’t pass the dog test, they weren’t welcomed back into our home.

It is so true that animals pick up the frequency vibrations of people … vibrations that humans overlook … but not our pets.



Healing Heart, sometimes it is great to get out though, a few nights out with normal people can do wonders for your spirits.

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