This week we are continuing to discuss The Psychopathic Mind by J. Reid Meloy, Ph.D. The author is diplomate in forensic psychology, former Chief of the Forensic Mental Health Division for San Diego County and Past President of the American Academy of Forensic Psychology. As I said last week, my initial reaction to the book was rather negative because I believe this author has made some assertions that have become the basis for inaccurate folklore that has spread over the internet (to be discussed in the coming weeks). But Dr. Meloy made up for all that by setting the record straight on a very important issue—the spectrum of psychopathy.
The idea that psychopathy is a spectrum and that “sociopaths/psychopaths” vary in severity means that there is no real point at which “normal” stops and “sociopath/psychopath” starts. Any decision about where to draw this line (after gathering information on a large group of people) is in a sense arbitrary.
The idea that “psychopathic disturbance” (as Dr. Meloy calls it) is a spectrum can be very confusing. Many people feel a sense of relief when they finally figure out that the person who has harmed them is “a sociopath.” By “sociopath” they mean categorically different from everyone else, a different type of human. Now I am saying there is really no category, just an extreme on a continuum.
I want to point out that we talk about the extremes of the continuum of traits as if they are categories all the time. Think about the adjectives tall, genius, beautiful, athletic etc. and you will realize that although these concepts exist in theory, it can be difficult to correctly place individuals into any of these categories on a strictly yes/no basis. The only time it is easy is when you are dealing with the extreme cases.
It is however; very important to understand how the interaction between spectra and categories affects us. For example, if you are used to being with players in the NBA, most everyone outside of the NBA will seem “short” and the perception of “tall” will also be skewed. To the NBA, 6’2″ is short!
This problem of perception while in the midst of an extreme population has created a problem for forensic psychology. When Dr. Hare first developed the psychopathy checklist, it was thought to differentiate criminals who are “psychopaths” from other criminals who are “not psychopaths.” Well, I maintain that this is exactly the same as calling a 6’2″ NBA player “short.”
I am also concerned with how our perception of psychopathy changes when we see it in the community. When we are in the community a person who has “a little” psychopathy stands out as a 6’2″ person would in a crowd. Many pose the question, “Is my _______ a jerk or a psychopath?” When we understand psychopathy as a spectrum we see that such distinctions are not very useful. It is more useful to ask “How much psychopathic disturbance does my ________ have?”
I have looked extensively in the scientific literature for the exact Psychopathy Checklist (PCL-R) scores that might indicate mild, moderate and severe psychopathic disturbance. If you are following what I am saying you will immediately realize that these definitions are important in determining just how many “psychopaths” there are. When I searched the literature several years ago, I reported on this blog that about 10% of the population has significant psychopathy. That 10% figure corresponds to a cut-off score of about 12 on the PCL-R.
In The Psychopathic Mind, p. 318 Dr. Meloy says the following:
Mild psychopathic disturbance 10-19
Moderate psychopathic disturbance 20-29
Severe psychopathic disturbance 30-40
This is more or less what I also determined given my clinical experience and reading of the literature. You might ask why I harp on this so much and why am I harping on it again? The reason I bring this all up is to help those of you who are stuck in a relationship with someone who has “mild psychopathic disturbance.” Steve Becker also talked about the problem of “mild psychopathy” this week When he’s just a bad dude, though he did not call it that.
In what I am about to say I depart from Meloy and give you my own opinion.
The nature of “Mild Psychopathy”
Psychopathic disturbance as Meloy also describes it is a disorder of motives. Since we all have these motives psychopathy is a spectrum. Psychopathy is an imbalance between love and power motives along with degrees of poor impulse control.
A person who is severely affected with psychopathy has no love motives at all. If we could perfectly measure the love motive, we could indeed form a category of those who have NO capacity for love. That category probably also includes some individuals with “moderate disturbance” and all with “severe disturbance.”
Individuals with mild psychopathy have some ability to love. Because they can love a little, what they do is particularly harmful to “loved ones.” They switch back and forth, in and out of “loving” states. When they are in a loving state, they truly have no emotional or other memory of their experiences outside of that state. Similarly when they are in the “power mode” they have no access to the memories of the love mode. It’s as if they have a split personality. Their poor partner is left asking, “Will the real ________ please stand up?”
The dilemma for partners and family members, is that both states are real. Those involved with the “mildly psychopathic” have to make a tough decision. They have to decide whether or not to let go of a person who they have shared real intimacy with. That is much harder than letting go of someone with severe psychopathic disturbance where the entire relationship was a sham.
fearlesspeace – Yes the part truths….what an important point, that’s the gaslighting bit, where the P sprinkled truth in with lies in such a balance to completely pull me in…I assumed he was truthfull but he was truth-half!!!how crazy making because you cannot say he is a complete liar and if you cannot say that –you have no conclusive evidence….how can you tell someone is mixing truth with lies…it would take some time for them to be caught out in a mistake then wouldn’t it? by that time alot of damage could be done. Only defense is assume everyone is lying untill you catch them out in a truth?….cannot get my head around this….cannot
hopeful says:
Because, if you’re implying that they can indefinitely change their behavior at will, doesn’t this preclude them from being a sociopath as we know them?
My response:
Genes do not code for choices. Genes code for proteins. These proteins make a person. Choices make a sociopath. That is why genetics does not identify sociopaths as a different species.
I am teaching abnormal psychology again this semester and noticed this week that the textbook we are using makes no mention of the role choices play in all mental illness. For example, many people with schizophrenia hear voices telling them to do terrible things. Only a small minority actually do what the voices tell them to do. In my practice I saw many people who suffered a great deal with depression/anxiety but didn’t let anyone know because they did not want to be a burden. I saw others who did the opposite. Choice is very important yet not often discussed.
‘In my practice I saw many people who suffered a great deal with depression/anxiety but didn’t let anyone know because they did not want to be a burden. I saw others who did the opposite.’
i do hope this paradigm of the ‘noble (and alone) and the burdensome’ was set up only to make a point – otherwise it is a paradigm of unhealthy choice and external judgment. living with depression and anxiety is a frightening proposition regardless of other’s reactions, but the fear and ignorance that people have to deal with on a daily basis can compound their challenges to the point that they are unable to cope. We all need support in very real ways in our lives, especially people who have greater challenges.
William Glasser and choice theory …the ability to choose and the differences across the disorders..?? maybe not what you mean, perhaps check it out
I don’t think the ones at the high extreme ARE capable of choosing to do the right thing. I think they know right from wrong on a superfiscial level, like Dr. Hare says, they know the words,but they don’t know the tune….I think that puzzle peice that allows the vast majority of people to choose to do the right thing is just plain missing in them. That particular peice is labled empathy, compassion, conscience, learning by trial and error, selective self-sacrifice for the good of the other, choosing relationship over self service. etc.etc.etc.
It doesn’t matter what happened to the missing peice, whether they were born without it, or whether it got lost along the way, they will never get it back…It’s gone gone gone.
But if you assume that that puzzle peice is the peice that makes us human, and is the thing that makes it possible for us to choose to do the right thing, then do psychopaths truley have a choice? Won’t they ALWAYS choose to do what ever they deem as best for themselves? What on earth would ever make them choose anything other-wise? I don’t think they are capable of choosing for the better good.
The next question is what do we do about it?
And I do agree that there is a spectrum, and on the lower end that peice might be damaged, but there is an inkling of conscience, and SOME empathy, and those are the ones that hurt us the most. If they can choose to do the right thing then why don’t they?
Hi all, I have been getting on with my new life and I am back to comment a bit…….I did keep reading…..Well, what a great article…Now I know what is going on with my daughter….She is a mild sociopath…She drives us all crazy….I have been putting up with her extreme verbal abusive which follows with no remorse and then she swings to a state of “normal” talk, she does show love, she takes good care of her son, 4, and will show empathy……..She will do this switch back and forth all day. She acts as if she hates her husband and has no respect for him……Why would she? She has no respect for me at all……I have given support both money and other now for years since the birth of my grandson…I am only here for him…..But now I am putting true boundaries on my life with her…I feel very free now that many things are clear to me…..I have to give her up to God…..I can do many good things to show I love her but not let her abuse or use me…..Maybe my decisions will effect my grandson but he will always be safe with me around….I believe her years with drugs changed her…she was not this way as a child…..after the drugs this happened….and she still does pot…..(If pot is so great why isn’t she calmer?) side point………………..But anyhow, I comment on the post Bad Guy about the movie THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY…..It is about 3 greedy bad gunfighters seeking treasure…..they are all SP’s but at different degrees…..the good not so bad, the bad the worst, and the ugly not so bad more dumb…..But they are all bad…….Not a very great example but one I sure can identify with since I love Clint Eastwood and watched this movie many times over and never saw this…….good lessons for me….I guess we all have our stages of enlightenment so to speak…..I will watch a sitcom or two at times and see SP’s maybe mild, like Cary in the “King of Queens”….she looks and acts like my daughter only my daughter is worse and will be real mean and verbally abusive. So if you think she is bad, my d is far worse….Thanks for an enlightening article….it sure helps figure out my d for me…..I wasn’t sure what she is….Bi-P or what…
one step
A good friend of mine developed post natal depression after the birth of her first (and only) baby daughter. She completely changed from an outgoing quirky really smart woman into a snivelling wreck. I sat next to her at work and when she finally came back to work, she looked the picture of health, a beautiful baby at home….but day by day she began to literally descend into a black pit of doom. she had every rescue remedy, homeopathic cure lined up on her desk as we all looked on not quite sure what to do.
I instinctively felt nothing anyone was saying helped, in fact it just made her worse. Her husband was getting ‘irritated’ with what looked like a self indulgent pity party for herself…but it was so much more than that…her eyes sunk, her diet changed, she moved differently…and what came from her eyes when she could make eye contact was “help me…I don’t know where I am…it’s dark and there is no hope…I think i’m dying” her voice was tiny, I felt as if I was in the presence of a small child lost in a scary place.
every luchtime we went to the park…where she walked slowely, sat and ate her sandwich and we just hung out (she was so down, I had to be really carefull to keep a line drawn)…I refused to enable her…or agree with her on her view of the world…I just listened, nodded, held her hand sometimes, let her cry and so every day was like this for about 6 months…her husband had escalated into shouting at her in frustration, all her family were trying to get her to take medication, anything to get it to stop.
she was hospitalised, was in group therapy…came back out
She could just about manage with her daughter, she loved her but was overwhelmed with the responsibility…terrified of the vulnerability…it was like she was stripped emotionally to the bone. She was so fragile and sensitive that I sometimes felt really cruel if I got impatient with her (and I did) she went to a counsellor and did lots of talk therapy and it emerged that she had too many losses to process and she had got overwhelmed, she needed to go back and process the loss, grieve and make sense of everything
Things proceeded to get worse not better, the company went bust…we were all let go..no jobs…and it was in this spectacular rock bottom she began to laugh… I recognised the old character coming back and eventually she came out of it and seemed to use humour to do it….we rolled around the place laughing at how shit everything was…there was nothing!! it actually was a turning point for both of us looking back and life got better and better…new jobs…she is now happy and back to usual…
she says she will NEVER forget those lunchtimes when she was nearly unreachable…she was conscious and knew exactely what was going on…she was totally dependent on my mercy and presence…nothing was said but there was no judgement just acceptance, everyharsh word scalded her, she could NOT shake herself out of it….she did not want to be a burden but she WAS…couldn’t help it…her husband was at his wits end looking after everything…
depression demands respect.. someone is lost in a maze and they CANNOT get out…you have to wait with them being sure they do not drag you under too…they go through a process of trying to find their way out and every one is unique in what the combination is to get out….but while they are in there in that black mist, they are lost….and I am sickened by the over medicating (further loss of way) even though I know without it some would take their life…so it’s a nessecity sometimes…
but what works the best in my opinion is patience, respect, trust in that person ability to find their own way out and a refusal to go down onto the depths with them, but stay strongly in the present moment…our friendship deepend and she is very well today…I would say she is more compassionate than most people, is very kind in a generous open way but her depression came out of the blue. She would not have any more children in case it came back….we are meeting up soon, she met the P with me when all was rosy in the garden….eh…I have a long story to tell her…..she can hold my hand this time!!
Vision, She might be a borderline personality…they have severe mood swings and problems with anger…check it out, and good luck. You sound like you’re doing great.
BP, Your friend is truley blessed to have you…I’m so glad she got better, and I’m glad she can be there for you now.
Situational depression, “too many losses to process all at once”—boy can I relate to that! I think many of us here can!
I know a lady who is a nurse but also a professional grief counselor and I attended a 3-day seminar on grief and helping our patients who were expereincing grief. She was one of the speakers. The subject of her talk was on “presenceing” or just “being present” for the griever. You don’t have to say anything but just BE PRESENT for the person.