This week we are continuing to discuss The Psychopathic Mind by J. Reid Meloy, Ph.D. The author is diplomate in forensic psychology, former Chief of the Forensic Mental Health Division for San Diego County and Past President of the American Academy of Forensic Psychology. As I said last week, my initial reaction to the book was rather negative because I believe this author has made some assertions that have become the basis for inaccurate folklore that has spread over the internet (to be discussed in the coming weeks). But Dr. Meloy made up for all that by setting the record straight on a very important issue—the spectrum of psychopathy.
The idea that psychopathy is a spectrum and that “sociopaths/psychopaths” vary in severity means that there is no real point at which “normal” stops and “sociopath/psychopath” starts. Any decision about where to draw this line (after gathering information on a large group of people) is in a sense arbitrary.
The idea that “psychopathic disturbance” (as Dr. Meloy calls it) is a spectrum can be very confusing. Many people feel a sense of relief when they finally figure out that the person who has harmed them is “a sociopath.” By “sociopath” they mean categorically different from everyone else, a different type of human. Now I am saying there is really no category, just an extreme on a continuum.
I want to point out that we talk about the extremes of the continuum of traits as if they are categories all the time. Think about the adjectives tall, genius, beautiful, athletic etc. and you will realize that although these concepts exist in theory, it can be difficult to correctly place individuals into any of these categories on a strictly yes/no basis. The only time it is easy is when you are dealing with the extreme cases.
It is however; very important to understand how the interaction between spectra and categories affects us. For example, if you are used to being with players in the NBA, most everyone outside of the NBA will seem “short” and the perception of “tall” will also be skewed. To the NBA, 6’2″ is short!
This problem of perception while in the midst of an extreme population has created a problem for forensic psychology. When Dr. Hare first developed the psychopathy checklist, it was thought to differentiate criminals who are “psychopaths” from other criminals who are “not psychopaths.” Well, I maintain that this is exactly the same as calling a 6’2″ NBA player “short.”
I am also concerned with how our perception of psychopathy changes when we see it in the community. When we are in the community a person who has “a little” psychopathy stands out as a 6’2″ person would in a crowd. Many pose the question, “Is my _______ a jerk or a psychopath?” When we understand psychopathy as a spectrum we see that such distinctions are not very useful. It is more useful to ask “How much psychopathic disturbance does my ________ have?”
I have looked extensively in the scientific literature for the exact Psychopathy Checklist (PCL-R) scores that might indicate mild, moderate and severe psychopathic disturbance. If you are following what I am saying you will immediately realize that these definitions are important in determining just how many “psychopaths” there are. When I searched the literature several years ago, I reported on this blog that about 10% of the population has significant psychopathy. That 10% figure corresponds to a cut-off score of about 12 on the PCL-R.
In The Psychopathic Mind, p. 318 Dr. Meloy says the following:
Mild psychopathic disturbance 10-19
Moderate psychopathic disturbance 20-29
Severe psychopathic disturbance 30-40
This is more or less what I also determined given my clinical experience and reading of the literature. You might ask why I harp on this so much and why am I harping on it again? The reason I bring this all up is to help those of you who are stuck in a relationship with someone who has “mild psychopathic disturbance.” Steve Becker also talked about the problem of “mild psychopathy” this week When he’s just a bad dude, though he did not call it that.
In what I am about to say I depart from Meloy and give you my own opinion.
The nature of “Mild Psychopathy”
Psychopathic disturbance as Meloy also describes it is a disorder of motives. Since we all have these motives psychopathy is a spectrum. Psychopathy is an imbalance between love and power motives along with degrees of poor impulse control.
A person who is severely affected with psychopathy has no love motives at all. If we could perfectly measure the love motive, we could indeed form a category of those who have NO capacity for love. That category probably also includes some individuals with “moderate disturbance” and all with “severe disturbance.”
Individuals with mild psychopathy have some ability to love. Because they can love a little, what they do is particularly harmful to “loved ones.” They switch back and forth, in and out of “loving” states. When they are in a loving state, they truly have no emotional or other memory of their experiences outside of that state. Similarly when they are in the “power mode” they have no access to the memories of the love mode. It’s as if they have a split personality. Their poor partner is left asking, “Will the real ________ please stand up?”
The dilemma for partners and family members, is that both states are real. Those involved with the “mildly psychopathic” have to make a tough decision. They have to decide whether or not to let go of a person who they have shared real intimacy with. That is much harder than letting go of someone with severe psychopathic disturbance where the entire relationship was a sham.
Kimmie, I didn’t know that pastrami is “smoked corn beef” either.
I use 3 inch thick round steaks that i have the butcher cut for me, but you can use any solid piece of meat as it will get tender when you corn and boil it.l
Morton’s TENDER QUICK (You may have trouble finding it) you mix up according to directions for brine (makes 4 cups) and then you thow in “some” pickling spices (a palm not too full) and put the meat in. KEEP IT 100% UNDER THE WATER—you may have to weight it down with something heavy I usually use a cup filled with water. If ANY part of the meat sticks up it will ROT. Anyway, keep it under water, and turn it every day or so. The water will start to look nasty but don’t worry, it can’t “go bad” Let the meat get corned all the way through and then it is ready. It does not freeze well because of the high salt content, so eat it fresh is best. Just boil til done and tender (it will still look red) I like less fatty pieces than the brisket but you can use whatever piece you want.
That is the old way they used to preserve beef was by corning it. It needs to be done at less than 45 degrees (the usual temp of a refrigerator) I used to do it in glass gallon jars on my back porch in the winter time when the temp would be 45 or less all the time. It won’t freeze because of the salt content in the water but you don’t want it above 45 for long.
You CAN freeze it after you boil it though and it will keep for a while (month or so, just wrap tightly so no air gets to it and then put in a plastic bag and squeeze the air out of that)
That’s oxy’s cooking lesson, corned beef, for today! Now you’ve gone and got my mouth watering!
Son D and I are going to the auction tonight. Weather is lovely. Time to start christmas shopping anyway! Hope I don’t see the X-DIL-P tonight! She always reminds me of an “egg sucking dog slinking around on it’s belly”
Thanks forthelesson Oxy. One question, can you corn it in a freezer? I livein Florida, and while it does get below 45 degrees in the winter, it isn’t always, and theres a good chance it could be up to 80 degrees, occasionally. Like one week before Xmas, last year…so I can’t count on it staying below 45 degrees.
No, do it in the refrigerator, which is about 45 degrees. That is PERFECT IN THE FRIDGE. Freezer would not work. I use the refrigerator here since our weather has been so screwy and can’t count on it being proper temp any more.
Even getting 2-3 days to kill and process a beef (first day kill, gut and remove hide and hang meat to chill) next process is cut up and freeze. Temps should be 32-45 degrees during the night AND the day and not above 45 or much below 32 during the night. Last year we only found one set of days in MARCH to work where we could be reasonably sure and it was only 2 days 4-5 days is better as the meat has less WATER in it if it is allowed to chill and drain several days. I did save a bunch of money doing it myself, we did 2 animals In 2 days (3 of us) but were BEAT when we were done. Killed them both the first day and processed the next day, I was TIRED. Won’t do that again even with 3 people and a big grinder. Don’t need that much meat now with son C gone. I’m not feeding the starving hoards of some army now. LOL
Okay, now I am drooling…..fried chicken tonight! I quit smoking and gain 30 pounds….but after this weekend….diet for me too!! Lets keep each other motivated between posts!! thanks for the love today!! Its wonderful to know we are not alone….HUGSSSS
bp – ‘waiting with’. it’s *the* thing. the most precious thing we can give and receive when there is struggle. your depth of humanity is striking.
hugs, one step
one step- thanks that is good to hear…..and yet I fell in love with a psychopath..and if you can read depth of humanity…you know and I know …you have it too…which is extra hurtful when met with a remorseless entity…it’s beyond words to describe how devastating it is to be fooled…you know it…xx
I’ve read several places that it isn’t so much the LOSS as the BETRAYAL that devastates us. The LOSS of my husband was terrible, I can’t even imagine what it would have been if he had BETRAYED me as well.
You know, though, on the thought of “I cried because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet” thing, today I met a woman who has had it worse than any of us here that I can imagine…. Her P-brother in law (she doesn’t know him as a P but only as an SOB) had been running her, her sister, and her husband (his brother) off the road, having his kids attack theirs, and on and on and on, when she was about 30, her BIL ran her husband off teh road and killed him in the wreck, then she was left a widow with 2 small boys and her husband gone (couldn’t of course prove anything on her brother in law so he got off scot free) then her house burned (no insurance) and she is just a nice little country red-neck gal with the closest jobs 50 miles down the mountain which takes a couple of good jack asses to get to the top of, but she made it, and in the meantime was a scout master for her boys and the neighbor kids, worked at the Dove house, answered the emergency line, got up and went to get women in the middle of the night to take them to the shelter, and now my son D (who knew her through scouts) and I ran in to her today and he introduced me to her and told me her story.
You know, no matter how strong I thought I was, this woman makes me look like the 90 pound weakling, cause I know I would have killed the SOB and been in prison myself, but she raised her boys and she is building herself a small 10 x 24 ft house with a sleeping loft out of materials she has salvaged or bought second hand. My son and I helped her unload a truck load of lumber at her land and saw what a nice job she was doing on her new place. Right now her kitchen is in a horse stall she put in a concrete floor into in her semi-open barn.
I just wanted to share this story with you guys, because I was so impressed with this spunky little lady. So no matter how we feel we have “hit bottom” or been beaten down by the psychopath—we have a spunky little gal who lives on a hill in Arkansas who doesn’t even know she is a guiding light for me and probably others as well.
In Dr. Viktor Frankl’s book “Man’s search for meaning” he talks about how no “tragedy” is worse than another one, that all pain and loss is equal because it is ALL TOTAL LOSS and TOTAL PAIN, but this gal has had more than her share of loss and she is still going strong so if she can do it so can I!!!! Just meeting this impressive lady made my day! Each of you also contribute to my morale each day as well, so thanks to “Sue” (not her real name) and thanks to each of you!!!!! Just for being brave!
I read Frankl’s book years ago figuring that he would have credible ways to deal with the inexplicable and horrendous given his personal account. And he probably did, but I was too thrown at the time to take on something as dense as his book. Still, all respect to him.
A funny, serendipitous thing happened just after I gave up on his book: A tape of essays fell off the library shelf and wound up in my basket at check out. I checked it out and wound up listening to it in my drives to and from work. There was one essay that turned out made to order.
I wish I could remember the title or find it because it was so compelling. The format of the essay was curious: It was the subject of a supposed interview responding to the imaginary interviewer who a listener gets is naive.
It develops that the interview is about a vicious rape done to the subject by several perpetrators… so vicious that surgeries were required. The interviewer is asking pat questions but the subject of the interviewer takes the interviewer deeper. The victim/subject portrays the true horror to be not the assualt itself but the fact that “not what you know, not what you believe, not what you’ve done, not what you value… not even your name, your existence or your human beingness matter to the evil. Nothing of you or about you will save you from it. And to have that experience that you are absolutely nothing to this evil is the trauma to be healed… long after the body has healed. You know now something that alot of people don’t know: That there is nothing that will protect anyone from unspeakables”.
What the subject/victim did in the aftermath was to create for herself “with every breath left in her body” a life of good and beautiful that she knew necessary to ward off being haunted by the horrendous ordeal. She understood that she very well might encounter evil again; it really couldn’t be helped. But in the interim, she would have her life resonate her values and be her asylum.
That made sense to me. It hooked me good. And it was the instrumental thing in getting me back to a life I could respect and love. I’d love to find that essay again. Just so I could send word to it’s author that it was the change agent more than anything else.
Oxdrover;
This story is incredible. It makes me feel like a whiny little brat with my issues. It also motivates me to really get my act moving, so when I hear genuine stories such as this, I can do something to help. I am done chasing material possessions and corporate success. I am happy with a roof over my head, minimal possessions and the desire to do things to help people. All I need in life is to travel so I can learn and help.
Today was a very interesting day for me. It marks the two year anniversary of the start to the events that almost brought me down. More important, today my mother buried her oldest friend. I am adopted, and to this friend and her family were the first people I was brought to when leaving the foundling hospital. Her death allowed me to see extended family members I had not seen in years.
Two years ago, I was in such a bad state that I wanted to go someplace else and start new. I would create a new persona and have glamorous new friends. I would only contact the past when absolutely necessary. Along the way, I met a sociopath who did just that and I was envious.
Thankfully, all that has happened made me realize the folly of such thoughts and today, in a sense, I have come full circle, reconnecting with the last part of my extended family. In a couple of days, I will be sending out Facebook friend invites to all, and my brother and I are already planning something with some of them at the month’s end.
It is also the x-spath’s birthday. I had to think of the loss, but I did not let my mind go there. I focused on the betrayal. The lies, the mirroring of my dreams, the leading me on then leaving me when I needed him most. Thank god it was short.
But in a way, I see it all as a blessing in disguise. Had this death occurred last year or two years ago, I would have used the excuse of being out of the country to avoid attending. Now, as I write this, I realize that despite the sadness of the day, I am happy to have such a large extended family, some of it now perhaps virtual.
Dear Behind Blue eyes,
Yep, it is a humbling experience for sure! I read Dr. Viktor Frankl’s book, “Man’s Search for Meaning” which he wrote after several years in the Nazi death camps in which time he lost everything except his very life….I suggest that you (and all of us really) read that wonderful book….It made me (at first) feel kind of guilty for being a “whiney butt” but then, wonderful man that he was, he talked about how PAIN IS TOTAL for each of us. That no one “loses” more or less than another, it is all TOTAL. So, I got a new way of looking at things. I also got a lesson today that periodically I must relearn it seams that “I cried when I had no shoes until I saw a man who had no feet.” To appreciate my blessings EVERY DAY, and to start with the very basics of having clean water and a place to lay my head.
I admire this woman because I know that in her position then, I would have killed that man who murdered my husband if the law wouldn’t have….and that would have been wrong for me to do. Now, I’m not sure I would go after the man to kill him, even if the law didn’t take him to account. (I won’t say the thought wouldn’t cross my mind!)
I wasted too many days and nights as it is thinking about revenge and how I could accomplish it…being bitter….angry…thinking ugly thoughts, worthy only of a psychopath…but I don’t want to BE that person who thinks those ugly thoughts, who plots nasty revenge…I want to be better than that! I want to CELEBRATE my life and count and feel gratitude for the blessings I have and for the wonderful examples I have seen, like the woman I met today.
I stood there on her porch and listened to her talk about what all she had done since she and my son had last seen each other…she’s still working for the DV shelter, and currently is building her house, raising her youngest son who will be on his own soon….and sheltering a young man who is essentially homeless as well as having custody of his 2 year old child….she’s got so little and yet, she is still GRACIOUSLY giving back…helping, but not enabling.
I’m glad her story resonated with you too, BBE, she’s one of those people I will never forget—though I may never see her again, she is in my heart and prayers forever! I wanna be just like her when I grow up! God bless the survivors in this world who light a lamp that we may follow!!! TOWANDA!!!!
I read Frankl’s book years ago figuring that he would have credible ways to deal with the inexplicable and horrendous given his personal account. And he probably did, but I was too thrown at the time to take on something as dense as his book. Still, all respect to him.
A funny, serendipitous thing happened just after I gave up on his book: A tape of essays fell off the library shelf and wound up in my basket at check out. I checked it out and wound up listening to it in my drives to and from work. There was one essay that turned out made to order.
I wish I could remember the title or find it because it was so compelling. The format of the essay was curious: It was the subject of a supposed interview responding to the imaginary interviewer who a listener gets is naive.
It develops that the interview is about a vicious rape done to the subject by several perpetrators… so vicious that surgeries were required. The interviewer is asking pat questions but the subject of the interviewer takes the interviewer deeper. The victim/subject portrays the true horror to be not the assualt itself but the fact that “not what you know, not what you believe, not what you’ve done, not what you value… not even your name, your existence or your human beingness matter to the evil. Nothing of you or about you will save you from it. And to have that experience that you are absolutely nothing to this evil is the trauma to be healed… long after the body has healed. You know now something that alot of people don’t know: That there is nothing that will protect anyone from unspeakables”.
What the subject/victim did in the aftermath was to create for herself “with every breath left in her body” a life of good and beautiful that she knew necessary to ward off being haunted by the horrendous ordeal. She understood that she very well might encounter evil again; it really couldn’t be helped. But in the interim, she would have her life resonate her values and be her asylum.
That made sense to me. It hooked me good. And it was the instrumental thing in getting me back to a life I could respect and love. I’d love to find that essay again. Just so I could send word to it’s author that it was the change agent more than anything else.
Viewpoint – oh my – this is exactly what I needed to read today. Nothing about me matters to evil. Nothing I am or do matters to my husband or any other spath. This is both really scary and really freeing at the same time. I have spent time *again* trying to wrap my mind around the callousness and busy-ness of my husband. There is no answer – it’s just evil that is empty at the core.
I am in the middle of the sheltering in place phase and I’m waiting for the legal people to provide an initial separation agreement for me. It is hard for me to imagine what it will be like if / when I actually leave. But your post really helps me. I really can imagine a life that resonates with my values and when I think about that, I look forward to having my freedom.
I am like you in that I have trouble with books and find I gain what I need from reading sites like this with articles and blog posts. I can understand and apply the information much more easily. So I appreciate this help today. Thank you.
God bless the little red-neck girl who lives on a hill in Arkansas. makes me think of that song by Stevie Nicks, Sara.
Sara, you’re the poet in my heart,
when you build your house then call me. Call me.
But, them again, I have to build my own house, don’t I?