This week we are continuing to discuss The Psychopathic Mind by J. Reid Meloy, Ph.D. The author is diplomate in forensic psychology, former Chief of the Forensic Mental Health Division for San Diego County and Past President of the American Academy of Forensic Psychology. As I said last week, my initial reaction to the book was rather negative because I believe this author has made some assertions that have become the basis for inaccurate folklore that has spread over the internet (to be discussed in the coming weeks). But Dr. Meloy made up for all that by setting the record straight on a very important issue—the spectrum of psychopathy.
The idea that psychopathy is a spectrum and that “sociopaths/psychopaths” vary in severity means that there is no real point at which “normal” stops and “sociopath/psychopath” starts. Any decision about where to draw this line (after gathering information on a large group of people) is in a sense arbitrary.
The idea that “psychopathic disturbance” (as Dr. Meloy calls it) is a spectrum can be very confusing. Many people feel a sense of relief when they finally figure out that the person who has harmed them is “a sociopath.” By “sociopath” they mean categorically different from everyone else, a different type of human. Now I am saying there is really no category, just an extreme on a continuum.
I want to point out that we talk about the extremes of the continuum of traits as if they are categories all the time. Think about the adjectives tall, genius, beautiful, athletic etc. and you will realize that although these concepts exist in theory, it can be difficult to correctly place individuals into any of these categories on a strictly yes/no basis. The only time it is easy is when you are dealing with the extreme cases.
It is however; very important to understand how the interaction between spectra and categories affects us. For example, if you are used to being with players in the NBA, most everyone outside of the NBA will seem “short” and the perception of “tall” will also be skewed. To the NBA, 6’2″ is short!
This problem of perception while in the midst of an extreme population has created a problem for forensic psychology. When Dr. Hare first developed the psychopathy checklist, it was thought to differentiate criminals who are “psychopaths” from other criminals who are “not psychopaths.” Well, I maintain that this is exactly the same as calling a 6’2″ NBA player “short.”
I am also concerned with how our perception of psychopathy changes when we see it in the community. When we are in the community a person who has “a little” psychopathy stands out as a 6’2″ person would in a crowd. Many pose the question, “Is my _______ a jerk or a psychopath?” When we understand psychopathy as a spectrum we see that such distinctions are not very useful. It is more useful to ask “How much psychopathic disturbance does my ________ have?”
I have looked extensively in the scientific literature for the exact Psychopathy Checklist (PCL-R) scores that might indicate mild, moderate and severe psychopathic disturbance. If you are following what I am saying you will immediately realize that these definitions are important in determining just how many “psychopaths” there are. When I searched the literature several years ago, I reported on this blog that about 10% of the population has significant psychopathy. That 10% figure corresponds to a cut-off score of about 12 on the PCL-R.
In The Psychopathic Mind, p. 318 Dr. Meloy says the following:
Mild psychopathic disturbance 10-19
Moderate psychopathic disturbance 20-29
Severe psychopathic disturbance 30-40
This is more or less what I also determined given my clinical experience and reading of the literature. You might ask why I harp on this so much and why am I harping on it again? The reason I bring this all up is to help those of you who are stuck in a relationship with someone who has “mild psychopathic disturbance.” Steve Becker also talked about the problem of “mild psychopathy” this week When he’s just a bad dude, though he did not call it that.
In what I am about to say I depart from Meloy and give you my own opinion.
The nature of “Mild Psychopathy”
Psychopathic disturbance as Meloy also describes it is a disorder of motives. Since we all have these motives psychopathy is a spectrum. Psychopathy is an imbalance between love and power motives along with degrees of poor impulse control.
A person who is severely affected with psychopathy has no love motives at all. If we could perfectly measure the love motive, we could indeed form a category of those who have NO capacity for love. That category probably also includes some individuals with “moderate disturbance” and all with “severe disturbance.”
Individuals with mild psychopathy have some ability to love. Because they can love a little, what they do is particularly harmful to “loved ones.” They switch back and forth, in and out of “loving” states. When they are in a loving state, they truly have no emotional or other memory of their experiences outside of that state. Similarly when they are in the “power mode” they have no access to the memories of the love mode. It’s as if they have a split personality. Their poor partner is left asking, “Will the real ________ please stand up?”
The dilemma for partners and family members, is that both states are real. Those involved with the “mildly psychopathic” have to make a tough decision. They have to decide whether or not to let go of a person who they have shared real intimacy with. That is much harder than letting go of someone with severe psychopathic disturbance where the entire relationship was a sham.
Cyber dating is definitely a no no in my book, but until we get out of the worst of the grief over the last “spathsode” and figure out why we were “targeted”–what is it about us that makes us vulnerable to their spiel? I don’t think we are safe to take care of ourselves, plus, we use energy for the relationshit that we would do better to use on ourselves.
You’re a big girl though, so only YOU can decide when to date again, but my experience has been it isn’t good to get in too soon, and I’ve proven that to myself with my broken hearts and my feeling (prematurely) that I was “healed” when I wasn’t and got right back into a relation-shit spelled with a T, not a P. LOL
Neveragain,
Thanks so much for your response. You are wise! Sometimes it amazes me that I can offer comfort and good advice to people who are suffering from the aftermath of multiple spathisodes, but it really is much easier to be objective when you aren’t looking at your own spathisode.
Your first sentence is right on!! My spath is such a user. I could absolutely see him hooking onto someone with money. He’s very well educated, but at the age of almost 40 now, he’s had a very sporadic job record, and works in capacities far below his intelligence level. Got fired from his last job, and maybe more. Early on in our relationshit, he said something like, “So, you wouldn’t put up with someone not working, right? You wouldn’t be a sugar momma, huh?” He was TOTALLY feeling me out for what I would tolerate. He borrowed money once and then the next time he asked, I BLASTED him. Guess what? He has yet to repay it, so I’ll count it as a loss. Even though it was only 40.00, it’s the principle of the matter. I also found checks from other friends that he was borrowing from.
Neveragain, you’ve made great points, especially your first paragraph. Looking at those moments where he seemed “nice” is just not the reality of who these people are. And again, you CAN go on hanging on to the “good” parts for years! There are women that stay for YEARS! Luckily, I HAVE gone NC with him, so this is good. He can’t maintain an attachment with anyone.
I’ve exhausted myself. I really need to begin putting the energy that I give to ruminating about him to putting this behind me and REbuilding my life. There’s lots of life to be lived!!!
Thanks, Neveragain!
Hopeful6596
Oxy,
I just posted to Neveragain, and hadn’t yet seen your post to me where you state, “we use energy for the relationshit that we would do better to use on ourselves.”
TOWANDA!
I just wrote that in my post to Neveragain, in regards to Spath–that I’m truly ready to begin shifting all this energy I give to ruminating about the Spath to REbuilding my life.
BTW, I love hearing about rural life on the farm. I grew up in rural western Massachusetts. We had a farm up on the hill that we would go to get our veggies, and had a huge garden of our own. My neighbors had horsies, so I would go get them hay from the field to feed them, even though they certainly weren’t starving. I live in the city now–a choice since I wanted to go back to school and expand my life socially and culturally, but I am SO a country chick at heart. In fact, a friend of mines family lives in rural Wisconsin, so she has invited me to visit her family, and I cannot wait. It’ll be a little vacation from city life. Actually, at some point, I’m still determined to do a “dude ranch” vacation. I don’t necessarily want to herd cattle, but many of these dude ranches offer your own horse for a week of riding, hiking, and hanging out in a cool cabin surrounded by nature. Just my style. Anyway, I like hearing you talk about farm life. It just feels so appealing.
Thanks again for your support. BTW, I think maybe I should be more clear. I’ve been broken up with the spath for over a year now, BUT I haven’t been NC, and he has taken every opportunity to make sure that I’m always thinking about him. He cannot stand that I won’t be in his life as “a friend” and that I don’t think of him as a nice guy. My point is, is that I am finally NC, and I do want to begin to date again. I really feel like I need to be vigilant with any red flags, and I am so glad I have my friends here at LF for support!
Hopeful6596~
I have gained tremendous strength and a great deal of wisdom from the articles and posts on this site. Thankfully & hopefully, I believe I am on a fast track to recovery and understanding of what went wrong in my relationship because of this site. My (to be X) Mild to Moderate or perhaps severe P/S/N had me thinking I was the problem in our relationship, I would defend myself until exhaustion and tried every which way to work with and then around PSN, but PSN made it impossible and the harder I tried the worse it became. I knew I had had enough and when I had some hard evidence I finally was able to get him out, but only because that is probably what he wanted. I have been truly concerned about his motives, his desire for me to get a life insurance policy and terrible feelings in my gut stemming from his cleverly veiled comments/threats.
While I find this site a tremendous support, I am concerned about the times when PSN is nice to me. I get a horrible, dull feeling in my gut, but later I wonder, ever so slightly, if it ever could be/have been right. That makes me really feel sick because there is no trust, no love and I have serious questions and doubts about his moral character–so why am I second guessing what I know in my heart to be true?
I have had thoughts about this idea of P/S on a continuum; however, the idea that they are chameleons would indicate we can’t really know when they have been authentic, truly intimate. How much should I believe?
If we did not have a child I would have nothing to do with him.
He keeps me on this roller coaster. Mr. Nice and considerate one day turns to Hateful vindictive and cruel the next. I never know what will trigger these behavior shifts. I am looking for a way to not allow his threats effect me. To take the power out of him.
OX-you have great perspective & Hopeful-I love that you wrote, “relationshit”–I think I might use that one 🙂
Dear fearlesspeace,
Welcome here to LF…since you do have a child with him, there are great articles here and a link here on LF to Dr. Liane Leedom’s blog about “raisingn the at risk child”—since there is a definite genetic link to the disorders it is good for the normal and nurturning parent to know and how to nurture that spark of empathy. She also has a wonderfull book called “Just like his father” that I would recommend you buy and read.
Him keeping you on a roller coaster is what “they do” to keep control, LIMIT contact as much as possible and READ READ READ here, as many of the articles as you possibly can.
Oh, BTW, don’t let the fact that they are in a level of from bad to horrible make you think there is ANYTHING desirable about a relationshit with them. THERE IS NOTHING about them that would make a normal person want to be around them. So don’t let “mr nice guy” fool you, THINK of it as a big fat juicy worm on a HOOK to lure you in like a FISH to sink that hook into your throat where you can never get free! DON’T BITE the Hook!@.......
Dear Hopeful, Start counting your time now that you are NC…I know you think a year is a long time, but believe me, not to discourage you, but this healing thing is like peeling an ONION, and there are MANY layers there. I speak from experience on this—if there is any way to do “healing” wrong, I HAVE DONE IT starting from a YOUNG age and I got to take REMEDIAL LESSONS over and over as I got involved with the NEXT Psychopath in the espathisode–and my onion was the size of a BOWLING BALL, but I am now down to a pearl onion I think, and it’s been a long hard trip, but I think after almost 50 years of the healing path I’m getting there. Been NC with the last batch of toxic beings about 3 years and that sure helps—so I’m making progress. For now, just keep NC and keep on reading and learning and digesting. Take a break once in a w hile and do something FUN!
I’ve lived in several major cities, Miami, Los Angeles, and Dallas/Ft. Worth and I choose to return to the farm about 20+ years ago….PEACE on this special place where I grew up. Where my husband and I lived the best 14 years of both our lives, and where there are so many happy memories mixed with the garbage, but there is more and more happy and less and less garbage!
I have my pet cows, my dogs and cats, my horse, and my Jack asses, Fat and Hairy, and can ‘”pee off the porch” in privacy! What more could anyone want! LOL
pee off the porch? that will kill yer grass girl ~!
The connection, after 22 years, that he drew me to was the fact that he’d found me and learned we both had special needs children. Mine a cancer survivor for seven years at age 14, his, two children adopted from the Soviet Union with attachment disorder.
A connection to a profession I trusted – Law Enforcement at the highest level – our Nation’s Capitol.
Now, after the D and D, he finds me a year later through friends with full knowledge that my lovely seven year brain tumor survivor is once again facing the monster… he smiles, he enjoys, the heartache I experience. You SEE… he doesn’t even have to be the Angel Gabriel, he doesn’t have to inflict it… he needs only watch the pain and anguish and then attribute it to his very special power. Like the woman he drove to suicide. God curse his damaged soul!
He can’t have me or mine… he can only wish for inclusion – but he will find each and every time rejection is the only solution for his wicked soul.
Sadly, these men find themselves time and time again meeting women would would love them, compromise, create a healthy relationship… but that is not what they crave… if there is no trail of teardrops, after all, what is the point?
My soul is worth saving… his soul is claimed in hell!
RavenlessTower STANDING
Well, I don’t think mine fits in the category of being able to love. Hell, he hasn’t got a toehold in reality.
How do you measure the ability to love? Do you weigh it against the propensity to lie?
Too many words. Not enough jails….
Great article – I had to read it a couple of times to really get it but it makes a lot of sense. I’ve been wondering for quite a while about the idea of a spectrum – it allows me to understand how my ex sits in a less bad position than someone who murders in cold blood, yet they share many symptoms. I think all psychopaths from moderate to severe are capable (well more capable than the rest of the population) of doing severe violence, crime and murder, but whether they do bad things or not depends on their place on the spectrum of impulse control. Iin other words, I see a spectrum for each of those symptoms -whereby each can manifest mildly, moderately or severely.
My ex P was severe in some traits and less bad in others – he had some impulse control, so was able to hold down a job and didn’t get himself arrested for anything, but he had a general lack of impulse control in the area of spending money copulsively. He was severe in flat affect, extremely charming and a compulsive liar. Lying was severe, but I have no evidence of cheating or promiscuity.
The fact that he wasn’t severe in all areas made it harder to assess the relationship and harder to leave ultimately. I was able to make excuses for his behaviour because he seemed responsible enough to hold down a job – yet he ruined his credit rating with irresponsible debt management. The mix of good versus bad was terribly confusing and made it so difficult to understand what was going on.
I believe my ex had no ability to love at all – no empathy, no desire to understand anyone else, except when he was flashing his charm. His proximity seeking behaviour in the beginning wasn’t sincere or authentic – it was a grooming behaviour designed to trap me. He never displayed a ‘motivational displacement’ towards me even in the period of seduction. A motivational displacement is a common caring behaviour found in all loving relationships whereby one’s motivation is displaced towards the loved one in an effort to help them reach their goals and dreams. Yet he expected I would displace all my own motivation for him to help him in his life.
My only real regret is that I wasn’t more vocal and action oriented about the awful things I noticed early on. My perception of reality that I talked was quashed by him and it was easy after all the mind games and isolation for me to believe him after a while. I know there was nothing else I could have done to help the situation – he is incurably sick and always will be.
This is such a great discussion. It has me also making a trip down memory lane.
Meloy and many others have said that psychopathic individuals do not just play the part, they live the part. So they are the “sock puppet”, it is not entirely an act. It is an act and yet it is not. That is what identity is all about.
Identity is about me in relation to you. If I am rooted in loving then I want to be the authentic me in relation to you, because it is only that authentic me who can really enjoy you as a unique and special person. On the other hand, if I only want to own or possess you, or worse take you over, neither the real you nor the real me matter.
Neveragain said this:
If you define love as “commitment—a decision you make, in which the other person’s happiness is almost as important to you as your own, then you see that love is something that develops slowly and proves itself through actions.
The commitment is more than a decision, it is also involves remodeling of the brain. But that remodeling also facilitates the decision to really care for another and put the others’ needs equal to or above one’s own.
The latest thinking about psychopathy is that the thinking brain is not properly connected to the part of the brain that determines our drives. That is why they have poor impulse control and why their various drives cause them to go from one “state” to the next without much continuity of person. It is the thinking brain running the show under the influence of the love/care motive that gives one the strongest authentic sense of who one is. That is something nearly every religion points out.
The psychopathic cannot make the decision to love because to do that they have to give up too much. All the other possible selves they would like to have fun being.
I also think that even the mild ones have no ability to comprehend what “WE” is. The concept of WE is as foreign to them as certain colors are to someone who was born color blind. They only comprehend “we” as a power alliance that serves a temporary purpose.