By | January 25, 2013 69 Comments

Father arrested in death of Prince McLeod Rams

Back in October, the Lovefraud community was shocked to learn that the toddler son of our own contributor, Cappuccino Queen, went to his father’s home for a court-ordered visitation and did not return. Today the child’s father, Joaquin Rams, was arrested for his murder.

Joaquin Rams arrested for allegedly killing Prince McLeod Rams, on

Dr. Liane Leedom will be posting about this case soon.

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raggedy ann

I don’t even know how to address Cappucino Queen here.

I am so sorry about this. Horrified that this guy was and is indeed a killer. Relieved that he is in custody, and also that CQ has an answer and is somewhat (or “allegedly,” until the case is finsihed) vindicated.

It’s horrifying, too, that we essentially watched this in real time here. I know of no other instance of this. Horrifying is the only word I can come up with, over and over.

Cappucino Queen I am so sorry.

Ox Drover

Jesus said that anyone who harms one of these (children) would be better off to have a mill stone tied around his neck and tossed into the sea. I can only pray that Rams gets what he deserves in this life and I have no doubt he will get what is coming to him in the next. I believe he will come before the one truly JUST judge.

When Liane published the story about Dr. Amy Castillo’s x killing her children AFTER she warned the judge about the threats he had made to kill them to get back at her, I thought this was a RARE event, but having watched the news for such stories since that time, I find it is NOT a rare event at all. Yet courts continue to give “parental rights” to people who do not deserve the name parent just because there is a DNA connection.

Sad. But then WE know what a psychopath is don’t we, and it would be nice if the family courts did.


Just the past week, I was checking up on CQueen’s blog to find out how she was doing.

On the one hand, I’m weeping for Prince and CQueen right now. That poor little baby boy! You would almost wish it was natural causes. But it wasn’t, and I hope they get to nail the bastard for the 1st degree murder of his son, and possibly the death of his mother and ex-gf.

I feel angry too, when I remember CQueen’s bog story on her blog on how the hospital treated her. I hope that the personnel that wanted to drag her out of the hospital room so that “the father” could be with his dying son eat shit!!!!!!

This was soooooo planned! His “illness” before, the information of the middle woman on his ‘fevers’ and ‘seizures’… It sounds to me that he was setting up a hospital record of an “inherent problem” with Prince, so that complications of natural causes would be the first considered cause by the hospital and a drowning would go under the radar.

I’m so sorry CQueen and baby Prince.

kim frederick

Thanks for this Donna. I am so sorry for Prince and Cuppicino Queen. I admit I was one who doubted. I was wrong. I am sorry.



I had that same reaction when I first read Cappuccino Queen’s story. It seemed so textbook sociopathic and far out, that the system was so broken, I couldn’t wrap my mind around the fact that this could be really happening. The events leading up to Prince’s death were so horrific, so terrible, so surreal.

The sadness I feel for Cappuccino Queen is deep. She endured our worst case scenario, the last step we hoped the sociopath would never take. We know that they are capable of such evil as killing an innocent child and we hold our collective breaths until they move on to another target. But to see it happening and to be helpless in the process, is heartbreaking.

This community is here for you Cappuccino Queen, we are so sad for your loss. I am sad for your loss.

Your ex will get what’s coming to him in hell. He has signed his pact with the devil a long time ago. No doubt he murdered his ex girlfriend too.

raggedy ann

I didn’t remember hearing/reading that he had taken out life insurance policies on Prince.

Was the judge aware of this? What a glaring red flag!

There might be appropriate circumstances for life insurance for a baby, but shouldn’t that officially trip alarms? And the other parent get notified independently, and authorities notified? An unemployed person who behaves sociopathically takes a policy out on his baby. My head is cracking open. My face is hurting.

I hope there will be a Prince’s law eventually that helps to prevent some future child’s death.

This is so horrible.

Spaths and life insurance policies go hand in hand. My spath talked me into taking a small one out on myself with him as the beneficiary.

My spath BIL took one out on my spath sister before they were even married.

And now it looks like this guy has been taking life insurance policies out on all his previous victims, so of course he would want one on his baby.

I hope the spath gets what he deserves.

Cappucinno Queen and Prince’s story is so sad;I’ve been to her blog and read it.Too many babies are dying at their parent/s abusive or neglectful hands.The courts are just clearing cases rather than showing compassion and concern for these children!


Sky, I am worth more dead than alive. My xspath BF has a policy on me. My mom had one on me..well sorry mom I outlived you. My X wife has one also, but she and my son’s will benefit from that, so I am cool with that. Everything I own will go to my xwife and son’s, not that they will want much, my sentimental treasures are priceless to me, they will be tossed in the trash when I go. I hope somebody will love my dog’s, but I doubt that also..I am in no hurry to go..No tellin how many peeps are waiting on me to kick the bucket. Suicide would make those policy’s void and null, but hey if somebody can benefit from my death more power to em, I never was that greedy myself…


I’ve had life insurance policies for all of my children since they were newborns. The payout is $10,000 – enough to bury them should the unthinkable happen. I plan ahead for bad days, that much is true. But I wasn’t interested in getting gaining financially from any of my children’s deaths.

I remember CQ’s writings about how she ended up paying this man’s bills while he sat playing video games. The first things that crossed my mind when I read articles about his arrest were 1) how did he manage to pay for the policies?, and 2) he was banking on this little boy’s death. Maybe initially he was hoping for natural causes because of the seizures, I don’t know. But it seems he got impatient and decided to move things along.

God, it makes me ill just to write that.

He’s a monster, and he’s also a very stupid man. Maybe he got cocky that he got away with the other two and figured this would be no different. In the aftermath of an acrimonious custody case, with CQ being so hypervigilant about visitation, he was incredibly stupid to think he could get away with something so easily detected.

That poor sweet baby. My heart just aches for CQ. There’s nothing anyone can say to make any of this better for her.


My spathy ex claims responsibilty for murdering aman in 1997. This man is a missing person and I gave a recorded statement to a detective months before I made my relocation with my litttle one. CQs tragic story hits me hard. I know my ex is spathy to the degree that he is capable of similar behavior. Life has been really difficult since we made the jump, but through CQs experiences, I am convinced I may have saved my life and that of my child. People who dont understand this disorder and what a sociopath is capable of tend to believe we, the victims of their actions, are being dramatic or hypervigilant. The preventable death of this little boy should serve as an eye opener,to the justice system that allowed this to happen. Where is the justice for the grieving mom? I cannot even put into words how terribly I feel for both CQ and little Prince whos life was stolen. I am grateful to CQ for contributing to this blog and helping the scared, traumatized parents see clearly the danger their children are in and that the family courts will not protect them. I dont know what else to say. Im just so very sorry this has all happened to CQ.

raggedy ann

Dawn, you are responsible and prudent for having purchased that insurance for hopefully never needed burial costs! But if there was another parent involved, they should be notified just as an insured adult should be notified when someone else takes out a policy on them. Which means if there were three, the other parent would learn that there were three. I am sure some lawyers and judges will insist that the judge’s hands were tied here and he was powerless to make use of the information about two other suspicious deaths. But I can’t imagine his thinking wouldn’t be changed by an unemployed con artist taking three policies out on a baby, especially if bad things seemed to keep happening when he was with the baby. It looks like there aren’t laws in VA that would have enabled Cappuccino Queen to get alerted about this. I would hope the law would allow a judge to factor this in in a court case. If these things are not in place, I hope that changes.


What I find so chilling about Hera’s whole experience is that her concerns were dismissed, entirely, and that those concerns were viewed as the ramblings of a bitter, jilted woman bent on vengeance. This is what typically happens in Family Court – even with presiding Judges that have worked in Family Court for years. They are not LISTENING to the facts, and the people who are supposed to be working for the safety of the voiceless children are, in essence, disinterested, overworked, and UNTRAINED.

Drowned? He drowned that child? There simply isn’t a sentence that will ever make him accountable for drowning a defenseless child.

If anyone has ANY doubt about how Family Court is conducted, I would urge them to take one day out of their lives and sit in the gallery and observe.

GOOD that he was arrested. I’m simply outraged that Prince didn’t HAVE to die – he only died because the Court failed, miserably. And, I hope that Hera hires a superb attorney and files every lawsuit imaginable.


LPMarie, I can understand how this whole story has affected you, and I am so sorry that you (and, anyone else) experiences such terror.

There are many things in the Justice Systems that aren’t perfect and really should be adjusted. But, when Family Courts fail to protect children and adult victims of psychopaths, it’s not just a small failure, but it’s a failure of incredible magnitude. And, it happens EVERY day. I’ve experienced it, and I’ve SEEN it happen to others. I read it on LoveFraud, daily.

I wish that I had “good” words of comfort, support, and encouragement, here. I’m at a loss because it’s such a monumental mess.

Hugs and brightest blessings


So Hera was unaware that Rams had taken out these insurance policies? Also, why has it taken so long for the authorities to realize the baby drowned? It’s kind of confusing. Breaks my heart. All I can think about is that gorgeous little boy suffocating…absolutely awful. 🙁


Louise, whenever there is a criminal investigation, every duck has to be in its proper place. I have NO doubt that the autopsy was performed immediately after Prince passed. The ME’s findings have to remain unpublished until an inquiry is conducted (as I understand it). THe authorities knew the findings about 10 minutes after they were entered into the system – believe me, it goes that way.

It’s not uncommon for parents to take out life insurance policies on their children, if they can afford to do it. Since Rams was the legal parent, he could do this without question. And, to my knowledge, there is no Insurance Database that can alert anyone to multiple policies being taken out on anyone. One policy makes sense. Several policies is a klaxon warning siren.

I not only imagine that poor baby suffocating, but I imagine what nightmarish terror he experienced and I cannot – will not – ever wrap my head around how someone could do that to a baby, for ANY reason. These are the kinds of things that cause me to stand in the shower and weep – that there exist human beings that not only have the capacity to THINK about doing horrible things to defenseless children, but that they actually DO them.

Dear God in Heaven…..

Brightest blessings

Ox Drover

LPMarie, I know that your living situation is tough right now, but I applaud you for having the good sense and guts to strike out AWAY from that monster while you could and while your baby and you are SAFE.

I know that living in a shelter is tough but you keep on loving and comforting that baby and times WILL get better. (((hugs)))) and my prayers for you.



Yes, I guess these things take time. I wondered about the autopsy, too…I thought if it was done right away, why didn’t they know then it was a drowning and why has it taken three months for an arrest? But this is how these things obviously work.

Good point about the multiple insurance policies. Perhaps that is something Hera could push for…making the insurance industry implement a database that would catch multiple policies.

Oh, the terror that poor baby experienced…I can’t even stand to think about it. May he RIP.


LPMarie ~

You did the right thing. I know you will pass through these rough seas and find calmer water. You and that adorable little bubble blower are in my thoughts and prayers.

Like Oxy said – times WILL get better. Double ((hugs)) from me.

xxxxx – Milo


Truthspeak and Ox Drover, thank u for the support. I am soaking it up. I couldnt sleep last night and havent slept well for over a week. Im triggered left and right living with these two ladies. Somehow, I am now the scapegoat of the situation. It feels awful but I stand by my actions to try to protect the children being abused. The woman who reported it with me has played both ends against the middle and by allowing it to appear as though I acted alone in reporting the abuse, the case manager here at the house is perpetuating more of this behavior, in my opinion. This past week ive really struggled with my new life. Its been a very tough eight months and I feel as though I have aged a decade. Im exhausted mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually. Im having a difficult time continuing to prop myself back up. I not only feel alone but I AM alone with this awesome responsibility to this beautiful daughter that I am so blessed and grateful to have. I worry about how much she has seen me cry and struggle emotionally and if this will negatively impact her in any way. On a positive note, when she sees mommy cry she says “mommy u ok? R u sad? Can I give u a hug?” My child is developing empathy!!!


What a nightmare that CQ has been living. If not for her, this would the premeditated MURDER OF HER SON have been swept under the rug.

I remember after the passing of her son (now we know it was murder) and as she posted here, drama ensued, she didn’t get the support she was looking for. I’m sure she thought since we all know what our spaths did to us, surely she would be believed and supported. And I read everything that others wrote to her and grieved the insults and betrayal she had to endure.

There is a lesson in this. What we go through with our spaths is a battle for sanity. And it is ALWAYS made worse by the invalidation of others. Just goes to show, it’s really hard to wrap our heads around what an spath is capable of. CQ KNEW he murdered her son, but from the articles, I don’t think even she was able to imagine how depraved that spath really was. We can write it, but to FEEL the consequences of it, to grasp the awareness of their thinking, their behavior is to KNOW EVIL, not just to discuss it or know about it, but it is BIBICALLLY KNOW EVIL.

It dawned on me this morning that the spath practiced the murder. It was not the impulse of opportuntity. And my GOD, that thought just sickens me to my core.

No matter how EVIL we come to accept them to be, they are worse than what we are able to conceive, and God Help Us that we ever have to face what Hera has had to handle, and God help us and forgive any failure to give her ALL our support and compassion.


MiLo, thank u! She now knows how to blow the bubbles all by herself. Shes growing up so fast. I wish things werent so brutally difficult and that I could feel more joy in watching her grow.


That is why CQ did not post anymore here, Katy? I am away at times, and only witnessed the initial shock and support. I supposed CQ felt the need to concentrate on her blog for a while, instead of making articles here. I’m very sorry for CQ that happened on top of it.

Just the behaviour of the hospital staff at the time sickens me.

Yes, I agree with you, that this was planned, and I very much doubt that the “seizures” history is a coincidence.

When it comes to spaths: think the worst as possible, rather than “it can’t be that bad”.

raggedy ann

Is Hera going to see all this imagining and speculation? I had various related thoughts but thought it would be extremely painful for Hera to see them if she wasn’t prepared in advance. Even if the thoughts had occurred to her and were not new.


But he was having seizures, wasn’t he? He was having them in CQ’s presence I thought if I am remembering correctly?

Yes, that is why CQ stopped posting here…she said that on her own blog.

I don’t understand the hospital either when they knew the injuries were obviously inflicted by someone. Maybe it’s a law that they cannot keep a parent from seeing the child? I don’t know…have no idea…just speculating as to why they allowed Rams to see the child in the hospital.

Vicki Kuper

It’s unfortunate that victims are looked upon by law enforcement and the judicial system as whining pains in their behinds, but it happens and all too often. There seems to be a limit as to how many times a victim can ask for help before they are seen as annoying.

Psychopaths are relentless at pursuing what they want and they try to portray their victims as being unreasonable so authorities dismiss their accurate claims.

In this case it cost a beautiful llittle boy his life, and his loved ones a lifetime of heartache.

Hera, I’m so sorry the judicial system has failed you. May your little Prince rest in peace.

Vicki K


Louise, he started to have them first during one of the first unsupervized visits with Rams. I remember the first time, the hospital wouldn’t even allow her entry while Rams had lied he was the custodial parent…

He had one I think afterwards with her, when he ran a high fever.

The first time either gave him the idea, or was caused by certain maltreatment and then gave him the idea. All I’m saying is that I doubt it’s a coincidence. I’m pretty sure, he saw an opportunity in a natural possibility, and either used it or aggrevated it.


I cannot speak for CQ or whether she still reads LF, but I do know that when people tell me their suspicions or beiefs of what the ex-spath was most likely up to, it gives me a feeling of validation by them, even though I have no need of another’s validation for myself to believe and suspect the worst of him. Of course, I am not CQ, and it may different for her. On the other hand, the most painful thing for spath survivors is not being taken seriously with their suspicions of the crimes and malicious actions the spath may have done… and that is what apparently happened here on LF to CQ even, and it sure happened to her in court, at the cost of precious baby Prince. It’s a bit sad to feel relieved authorities take her serious now and think the worst of Rams now (1st degree and possible capital crime) and we must hope the jury will see his actions at their worst motivation too. I also very much doubt authorities would go for capital crime unless they have the premeditated evidence for it. The fact that it took several months to make the arrest, despite having known early on from the autopsy that he was drowned, also suggests to me they probably wanted to be thorough so that they can nail him for 1ste degree murder, and not just involuntary manslaughter.



I agree.

raggedy ann

Darwin’s mom, speculation about how greatly the child suffered is not that connected to validation, which itself is surely less of an issue since CQ is to some degree vindicated.

It occurred to me immediately that this evil person was staging the child’s health problems, but then I remembered that Hera said they ran in her family. It’s possible he staged everything because he knew of the genetic predisposition, and even the first seizure was induced or fabricated. I was reluctant to start talking about these things “out loud” here. I imagine prosecuting attorneys will be exploring these possibilities, though.

I have to say I am still glad if Hera is not reading. Hopefully she understands 100% that she has our support.



I have not speculated how greatly the child suffered, period. My own mind won’t even wants to go there, and I very much doubt Hera’s mind wants to either.

raggedy ann

DM, I was not saying you had done that. I was trying to explain better to you where part of my concern was coming from, after you addressed me.


“Invalidation” is putting it nicely. There were people here actively digging into Hera’s personal life and pointing out what they thought were inconsistencies, and whatnot.

It started looking like a witch hunt until the thread was locked.


I agree that spath got the idea from a real life event, b/c he had a seizure. My spath found inspiration for a lot of his assaults from sitcoms. Whatever inspires the thought, it’s not a path that normal people travel. The reason I think he practiced comes from my spath, he LOVED getting as much thrill of power of control as possible.

It’s REALLY HARD to wrap our heads around how depraved and EVIL these spaths are inspired to be.

raggedy ann

Here??? Christ.

I saw things in the comments on WaPo, but don’t remember them from here. I follow things here with varying levels of attention. Were these long time posters paranoid about trolls, or recent arrivals that registered because of Hera?

Cops and judges very frequently suck. As do corporate higher ups and HR departments. It’s the invalidation my our supposed authorties that I think is most frightening.


I agree that spath got the idea from a real life event, b/c he had a seizure. My spath found inspiration for a lot of his assaults from sitcoms. Whatever inspires the thought, it’s not a path that normal people travel. The reason I think he practiced comes from my spath, he LOVED getting as much thrill of power of control as possible.

It’s REALLY HARD to wrap our heads around how depraved and EVIL these spaths are inspired to be.

What was done to Hera was shameful, as if they were entitled to condemn, even though they know how spaths make us look like we’re the crazy ones b/c what we say seems so bizarre and trauma tends to make us lose our dignity in the moment.

It is a lesson to not expect validation from people who suffered from spaths either b/c they look at life from a broken prism, and sometimes are quite hurtful.


It is my fervent hope that Hera’s experiences and the tragic murder of that baby is a catalyst for changes.

Validation – that’s one of the most important things that human beings need and crave, and spaths INvalidate their victims to such a degree that the victims either fly or they die (even if by proxy).

I sit in front of this screen with tears welling up – I cannot, in my wildest nightmarish imagination, wrap my head around how anyone is able to murder a toddler. I just can’t. And, it makes me physically ill to realize that these people DO exist and that they DO murder the most innocent lives of all.

Honestly, I hope to god that this horrific series of events SCREAMS for changes within the broken Family Court systems across the nation.

raggedy ann

I didn’t see this, but don’t forget how many spaths sell themselves as victims when working on their newest prey. We have another thread warning us not to trust too easily on the internet.

I had a fleeting moment or two of doubt, like kim did. And the wapo comments turned the tables and characterized CQ as a false accuser of something serious. I eventually discounted that to a degree, and all one can do is reserve not judgment but absolute conclusion, stay tuned and try to remain clear thinking and sensitive and delicate at the same time. This sounds like some meanspirited shit happened here.

I guess this stuff was deleted before I had a chance to stumble upon it?
And is this why CQ is not here?

Can’t say I can’t relate, or blame her if that’s the case.


As I sit here reading this update on Prince, I am speechless. Truthspeak said what I was thinking as well…”I cannot, in my wildest nightmarish imagination, wrap my head around how anyone is able to murder a toddler. I just can’t. And, it makes me physically ill to realize that these people DO exist and that they DO murder the most innocent lives of all.” Just pure EVIL! AND…had Hera RAN with her baby boy….SHE would have been branded a CRIMINAL! Just, OMG! But what did Hera do? She tried to do the right? thing???????????? ….and TRUST the F**KING justice system???????????????? Just aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Justice? Justice? There will NEVER be any justice for Hera and Prince. Period. Prince is gone, it is too late for justice. I cannot begin to imagine what Hera has/is going through. My heart just breaks for her….


Wow, I missed all that circus (which I don’t regret) and I’m very very sorry this happened to CQ… I read her blog to read her first coping with the death. And then this month it occurred to me whether there had been any development. As long as there was no official autopsy news, I just filed “no data/info” yet, but I thought there was every reason to request for a thorough investigation and suspicion around Prince’s death. CQ’s past was completely irrevelant to the need of a thorough investigation.

A child died, beyond the age of ‘dying in its sleep’, and the seizures were deemed a harmless medical side effect of fever before. So, the death was suspicious anyhow, while under the supervision of Rams. And not until the autopsy results were known, the suspicion was valid, even from the most objective POV.

anam cara

I did not comment at the time, but I make no apologies for my initial doubts about CQ who posted so eloquently, whilst in the midst of the trauma. This was not an attack on CQ but in fact a natural protective instinct working properly from one who now “gets it” about spaths and their MO. The problem comes from those people who doubt us because of their ignorance and disbelief about the evil in our midst.
I will light a candle for the “little one” say a prayer for CQ and pray to God for justice to be done.


anam cara,

I’ve written my way out of trauma, writing whole theatre plays and novels in English (not my native language). Writing can be very therapeutic for people, without losing any eloquence. It’s not a red flag at all in my book. And the use of a thessaurus and spellchecker helps in say ‘word’.


I think it’s important to remember that once we’ve been victimized it changes us and our way of viewing things.
These changes wake us up to the wrongs around us and I believe it’s for the better.
For me, things need to make sense. ( I ignored the obvious for too long in my past and I won’t take that process into my future). I realize that not everything will ever make sense, but when there are obvious inconsistancies in stories……you bet i’ll ask and i’ll make no appologies for it. It wasn’t an attack, or a witch hunt, they were viable questions and I wasn’t alone in my quandry in trying to process this.
I didn’t like the fact that we were told to be silent, yet presented this story and participated throughout ……but there came a time when we were told to ‘be quiet’ and referred to our questions as shameful.
I feel differently and I expressed that at the time.
This is a tactic that spaths use. Shut up and tow the line, or ‘trust me’. *not accusing ANYONE of being a spath here* Note!
There was obvious legal documentation that was still being referred to as an issue. That only created more questions.
It still doesn’t make sense, but it’s a mute point now.
It didn’t make sense why there were things edited and censored or outright removed, omitted or changed before my eyes.
If the story isn’t ‘as written’ why write it in the first place.
We don’t need to make spaths look worse than they already are. They are bad period…..
I was trying to form my opinion on what I was presented… blog posts and court docs and the internet, realizing that there was an investigation so we didn’t have all information and facts and probably never will. But we were to follow the opinion in the posts that he was a triple murderer and rapist and the facts simply were not there or showed contrary. I had a hard time with this.
I was trying to see how the judge could come to his conclusion. I noticed a lot of drama claims in the court records. It cooked the judge……. Still now, given the terribly sad outcome, I believe the judge ruled according to the facts that were presented to him, in the emotionally charged and dramatic fashion they were presented and with no legal backup… sad as the outcome is now…..I still beleive he ruled according to the law.
(There is a lesson for those who are about to enter the family court system to learn from in this!!!)
I also had a hard time with someone using LF as a catalyst to promoting a secondary blog with identicle postings etc.. When someone immediatly appears to have ulterior motives we are right to ask why?!?!
I’ve been here long enough to see people come on, and disappear when they’ve promoted their own purpose. It’s generally not to engage in our community, it’s for other reasons altogether…..
Hera was greatly supported here. And she will continue to be i’m sure.

It’s interesting to see others varied reactions to this…….

Sometimes there is oil and fire wrapped up in one relationshit package.
Why is it that we need to identify one ‘bad’ and one ‘good’ person in any situation. If your the ‘bad’ one then that vindicates ‘me’?
It’s simply not always the case.

In any case, it’s important for each of us to think for ourselves…..whether it’s popular or not. When we cease to do this…..we are sure to remain prey for the vultures, once again!


Rest in peace, little one…

To his sorrowing mother, you have my prayers and my deepest empathy for your grief.

With all my love in this terrible time,


ErinBrock, there are many points that I agree with and it is simply my fervent hope that this tragic event is a catalyst.

We ARE suspicious because we were horribly damaged BECAUSE we trusted someone. In recovery, trust issues are one of the most difficult hurdles to jump over. We lost trust in our own judgement, our partners/friends/family/supervisors/religious leaders. We lost trust is the “Justice System.” We lost trust in our attorneys. We lost trust in everything that was meaningful to us, and aspects of recovery REQUIRE us to question.

If I ask questions, it’s not because I need more information. Whether or not I “believe” something to be true or false doesn’t matter – my recovery has been a series of adjustments in a system of very, very flawed “beliefs.” And, this goes back to the issue of trusting myself and my own judgement.

I am convinced that Prince’s murder could have been prevented if several things had fallen into place as they should have. I am also convinced that this very, very tragic event could be a catalyst for a number of changes to prevent the ball being dropped ANYWHERE along the way.

But, this tragic event has also been a lesson for me, personally. I am learning – so, so, so slowly – to separate myself from the emotion and approach things in a very pragmatic and objective manner. I can’t AFFORD more damage. I just can’t.

Brightest blessings

EDIT ADD: Anyone who has endured a legal battle understands that Courts do not operate on what’s “fair” or “right.” Courts operate on facts that are presented. This is NOT to say that I have to LIKE this truth – oh, hell NO I don’t “like” it, one iota. But, I have a choice to either accept this truth, or not. If I accept it, then I may be better able to process outcomes and proceedings. If I choose to reject the truth, then I’m only setting myself up for fury-times-ten. I have NO control over a Court action. And, once I get that through my head, I can do my best and be “okay” with letting the chips fall where they will.


EB, while I understand where your doubts came from, this is the rule I tend to interact by on LF or anyplace else, and a rule that I learned from the spath experience: when in doubt, don’t interact, because all tends to sort itself out in the long run. And by not interacting you either avoid feeling used for another person’s agenda if they turn out to have one as well as avoid hurting someone’s feelings if they are genuine. Especially when outsiders suddenly start to slander a regular poster and author who’s going through a real, non made up worst-nightmare a mother can go through.

And as it now has been revealed Hera wasn’t making Rams out to be worse than he was, since he drowned baby Prince, hoping to gain even over 500 mil $ on the murder.

I know this may sound as if I’m saying it’s always better to “shut up”, which is not what I’m saying… but sometimes silence is golden.



Your posts are always considered and thoughtful. I like that. A rule that I learned from the spath experience…..the truth always comes out in the end.

Ox Drover


I disagree “That the truth always comes out in the end.” Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn’t. Sometimes it is “out there” for those who SEEK IT, but most people don’t SEEK the truth in my humble opinion.

There are many “cold cases” where people get by with murder. And there innocent people on death row for murders they did not do. (Here in Arkansas just this past year 3 young men, now middle aged, one off death row for 18 years) were released because they were innocent) DOZENS of men have been released off death row in Texas and other states who were innocent, but that is not all that should be.

SOMETIMES the entire truth comes out, but sometimes other facts are ignored. But facts and truth are not always the same things. Facts are what happened, but truth is how we interpret it.


Thats right Oxy, the truth does not always come out in the end. Most people think WE are crazy when we try to explain what the spath has done to us. In most cases the spath ends up smellin like a rose.

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