Here’s more proof that total No Contact is the way to recovery. A new study finds that continuing to follow a former romantic partner on Facebook after breaking up makes it harder to move on. Read:
Study: Stalking your ex on Facebook is bad for you, on ZDNet.com.
Story suggested by a Lovefraud reader.
LOL I guess I’m screwed then. I am drawn to nice, decent, interesting, and fun men my age who are stable and kind to me. Are those things red flags? If so, I better just become a monk. ha ha When I was panicking over an attraction, I was told (here only) that it was a sign that I am not ready for a relationship. I have gotten some healing in the last month to where the fear of rejection is much less. So now that’s a red flag because I am too comfortable and feel safe? I don’t know if any of these guys are willing to explore because I am not dating any of them at the moment – I only see them at the dance clubs and classes, and getting to know them slowly as friends and dance partners. But they are all kind and decent people. I have not observed any red flags for danger.
When I said “boring”, I didn’t mean I feel bored. I mean they are not dangerous; they are not drug-addicted adrenaline junkies with fears of commitment. I guess I need to be more careful about the words I use.
I personally don’t think feeling safe with someone is a red flag, but maybe it could be for others? I don’t completely understand the comment. I’d rather feel safe than unsafe with someone.
I didn’t say ‘feeling safe’ is a red flag, stargazer. I’m saying it might not always be the best parameter. If you feel ‘safe’ and you attribute it to a person ‘making you feel safe’, then it’s important to explore for yourself why that is: did you feel unsafe before they made you feel safe? What did they do to make you feel safe? And how large is your comfort and exploration zone? Is what you regard as ‘safe’ truly ‘safe’? Only you can answer those questions for yourself.
Spaths often create situations of feeling unsafe in a subtle boundary crossing way , or by making you think of danger, and then they do nothing or even act to make you feel safe again. Very simple example: someone steps into your personal zone, while there is ample space and no reason to. The body will experience this intrusion automatically as a threat, even if for just a second. But if then nothing happens at all, you’ll relax again and feel ‘safe’. You then start to see that person as someone who made you feel safe in a moment you felt danger or threatened, even though it’s the same person who spiked the feeling of threat in the first place. Another example would be going out to a place together or to meet someone who’s a stranger to you and who then reminds you of that potential dangerous fact. “This could be dangerous if I was a nut with the intent to hurt you.” For one tiny fraction of a second you are reminded of possible danger and when you think of danger your body will have a sensation of danger, if only for a short moment. But when that person who reminds you of danger does not act like a nut intent to harm you, you will relax again and shake off the feeling and idea of threat as silliness, and feel safe again. The mind will then attribute the safety feeling to the person who did not harm you though he could have.
I’m highly explorative. I have little or no panic zone at all. And I’m a total cool-headed rock in situations where other people panic, even if I’m the sole victim in that situation (like an accident). I’m highly prone to mistake the feeling of threat and danger to feelings of excitement. I’m also a leader and dominant. Someone who makes me feel safe in a situation where I feel fear is therefore someone who’s likely to be more dominant than I am. If someone is more dominant than I am, there is a big chance they are pathologically dominant.
Ex-spath used a lot of those threat-safe feeling situations, and that from the start. For example: he knew I wasn’t fond of him, distrusted him and angry over him taking money from us to get us something and then disaeared on us. What did he do? The next time he saw me, he wrapped his arm around my middle in public, told me he was paying me back, and walked me out of the bar onto the night street with nobody there around the corner. I had not expected him to do that, hadn’t known where he was leading me. Once I found myself outside and led away from any crowd there was a moment where I did think: this is potentially a dangerous situation. And I felt stupid for letting myself be so easily tricked into that situation. And yet, at the same time my explorative nature kept me from running back to a safer environment in a panic (as I wasn’t panicking) and my curiosity led me to see and witness the development of the situation. All he did was go to an ATM and use his card to fake he was trying to get money, while he knew he’d get a negative response, and then walked me safely back to the bar. I searched out a group of friends, and he joined them all evening. Together we all went to the last bar still open. He did nothing bad, was attentive, decent and all. Then by the time that bar was about to close he suggested to me: “You should go home and escorted me outside and nudged me on my way” and watched me walk off. I walked to my hostel feeling completely safe and as him making sure I was safe.
The next night he did something similar. He came to the bar and wrapped his arm around me, all cheery and happy, and invited me to a private party to meet his new friends. And I followed him. He had borrowed their car (unecessary, because it was 750 m away). But instead of driving directly to the friends’ studio, he drove a complete other route, to a spot where there is hardly anybody. Since he had been acting all mysterious, again I felt a heightened feeling of “this can be possibly dangerous”. Then at the spike of that feeling he gave me my money back. Only then did he drive to the friends’ apartment.
The most blatant fear-safe stunt he pulled was of course having me robbed and then be the saviour. The underlying thoght and threat at all time had been that he possibly might have been behind it. It was unspoken, but he didn’t mind me considering the possibility at all. Why? Because it juxtaposed the threat-safety perception even more.
Another time he came back making a complete scene of him and by extension myself being threatened by the criminals that he (and I) had put into jail for the robbery, after they were released again. He was in a complete rage-stage setting (a theater of anger), and at the same time very protective of me. Then he broke and busted the door of the kitchen and home of his cousins and grabbed the shotgun and stood wielding it in the garden. He introduced the heaviest of these criminals to me later on to make peace and give each other a handshake.
Another time in Belgium he had stolen/ acquired a cellphone from a callgirl or hooker and was to give it back to her pimps (of course at the time I had another story, but the story still involved possible danger). I left for work and gave him a ride to my parents and we met these pimps (Eastern European gangster types) along the way. These guys walked up to my car and one even attempted to open the door (which I locked just in time) and the ex jumped out as my ‘protector’ and threatened to beat them up for it shouting ‘Stay away from my girl!’.
The latter are the extremer situations, but the danger-safe situation was present from the start. He’d put me or remind me in a potentially contrived dangerous situation, where he either happened to do nothing bad, something good or protective at the peak of the possible dangerousness. In a very very subtle way at the start, in a blatant manner later on. So he made me feel safe constantly, though he was the one who put me in danger in the first place.
I’m not saying that everybody you feel safe with does that. I’m saying to investigate the source of that safety feeling.
Darwinsmom, you are making me examine my choice of words, and this is probably a good thing. No, I wasn’t particularly feeling unsafe before. I suppose I mean that they are kind and accommodating, as opposed to aggressive or rude. I’m not sure how else to describe it. They treat me with respect and are decent to me. They care about my comfort and safety on the dance floor. As a contrast, I danced with one guy early on, back in July, who was drunk and accidentally threw me into another couple while we were dancing. I didn’t really like the way I felt around him – I would consider him “unsafe”. Does that make sense? I don’t know if I’m explaining myself very well. I feel I need to be very careful what I say. Suffice it to say, I’m drawn to men who are generally nice to be around and are appropriate for me to date – age appropriate, educationally appropriate, financially stable, emotionally mature, etc. My point was that these guys seem like genuinely good dating material. I’m pretty sure this is a GOOD thing. But if it’s not, then I’m screwed. LOL
I have not observed any lovebombing or boundary violations at this point. I’m pretty good about sensing bad people. Like I said before, I don’t think you’ll find a lot of spaths at the salsa clubs because it takes a money, commitment, and dedication to become a good salsa dancer. And if you treat women like crap or act too controlling, etc., you develop a reputation fairly quickly. Everyone knows everyone in this community.
Reflecting on your comments, I think my words may have a different meaning than people here would construe them, because sociopaths are not much in my thoughts or in my life at this point. I don’t really worry that I’ll meet one or give much energy to it. So when I talk about feeling “safe” I am not contrasting it to the feeling you get when your boundaries are crossed. I am more referring to a comfortable feeling that feels good. I hope I’m making sense. Semantics. Even as passionate, romantic, and excited as I feel around J, he has a very stable, predictable, consistent, and kind nature about him. Some people might construe this as boring. But trust me, after some of the “excitement” I’ve had with past relationships, this type of “boring” sounds really good to me. I want a man who is commitment-oriented.
Darwinsmom,
thank you for those explanations on the trauma bond. You cleared up something that happened to me recently.
I was trying to hire a guy, D, to work on my cabin. He was recommended by an in-law of his, who is a contractor.
Upon meeting him, I could tell he was very excited by my presence. No big deal there, some guys are. But he stepped very close to me, and I felt like he was trying to dominate me.
I blogged about it here on LF and Hens made a crack about people who step too close, as if he didn’t take it seriously as a red flag. So I sort of dismissed it and was going to hire him, til I lost his number.
All I know is that my gut instinct warned me and now you’ve explained why: He stepped in my comfort zone to test me and trauma bond me. Later, he told me that his ex-wife was crazy and neither he or the adult kids have anything to do with her. But on Facebook, I found pictures of them all together and she lives down the street from him! lol!
Intuition. Listen to it.
Your other example of creating danger and then safety was my spath’s MO. But just recently, a craigslist dude did that to me.
Again, I posted on LF about it. It wasn’t met with as much derision as the contractor story was.
Like you, I don’t react to danger by moving away from it. I move toward it. This guy was giving away roofing tar, which my BF needed. When I went to meet him, he saw me drive by as I was talking to him on the phone. So when I parked, he had a single flower for me. redflag.
Then he asked me to walk down a long drive way in the woods. I chose to drive there instead. When I got there, he said, “most young women don’t go down long driveways with strangers they meet on craigslist.” I don’t remember my response, it was something that threw him off balance. Probably told him that I’ve known many psychopaths.
The next thing he did was make me feel safe by telling me that he had a slipped disc and we would have to cooperate by carrying each heavy bucket together. duh…
I told BF and he analyzed it exactly that way, “He trauma bonded you. He made you afraid and then he made you feel safe by cooperating with you.” Remember, I’m the one who explained to BF what a trauma bond was. But he got it immediately.
And yes, I was fascinated by this guy who continued to email me about how interested he was in me but lied about his real name. I researched and found it myself. He’s an author on travel in Thailand. He spends most of the year there. And he’s a journalist there too. I found his website.
Wow, Sky, stuff like that never happens to me. My life is just not that exciting. I WISH a guy would bring me a flower! I did meet a fascinating guy who is currently in the CO ballet. But he didn’t lovebomb me. He only danced with me. Boring. And the guy I like the most doesn’t lovebomb me either. Where’s the love? LOL I need a little of what you have.
In seriousness, I wouldn’t necessarily take those actions as a deliberate attempt to trauma bond in and of themselves. However, I also would never put myself in that situation where I was alone in the woods with a strange guy. There is a guy at the club who really likes me. He is a fantastic dancer and a total gentleman. He is a cowboy and always wears a tall hat and cowboy clothes. Not really my type but very sweet guy. He offered to give me dance lessons in his basement studio. That would be the LAST thing I would ever do – go to a strange guy’s basement, even though he is well-respected in the community and seems to be on the level. I am fairly trusting, but only up to a point.
Star,
normal healthy guys just don’t do that.
Sky,
I remember those times you told them. You were wondering then what made you so attractive to this type of men.(And Star you gave the same response then as you do now: lucky to get a flower and the rest was probably harmless.)
In any case, Sky, I think you are correct about those incidents. Last year, a man stepped in my physical zone without invitation and need for it, hit on me for a couple of days, and then ended up being married with a child (and he lied about both) after a background check. That’s the first time I started to see that it was subtle boundary crossing, which made me misattribute excitement and attraction for the second I felt threatened. But last night was the first time I truly started to ponder for early moments like it created by the spath.
They’re subtle trauma-bond moments. I’m wondering whether they are tests, or simply the way they learned to have people put their guard down and manipulate them into thinking they are safe.
Thank you Truth Speak and Ox Drover,
you have helped me to get here, by reading your stories and by your support messages every time I felt desperate and lost, you have helped me to move on.
It’s true, I’m still alive, although I thought that I couldn’t bear all the pain… I’m still breathing even if everyday is a fight for me, trying to find a way to heal my heart.
It’s true what you said, that it gets better with time… Now I can think about the things he did without crying or feeling mad every time. I accept them as facts. He was not good and he could never be good for me.
What hurts the most is that the man who was everything to me, who promised to love me forever and that he would never break my heart, the one who repeated that I was his soulmate, had shattered my whole world and then laughed at it, feeling proud, like he was some kind of a hero… It would be o.k if we broke up like normal people, people change and move on with their lives and there’s nothing wrong with that but for him it was like a war that he had to win… He had to break my heart, ruin me emotionally and financially, isolate me from everyone, then blame me for everything, accusing me that I wasted his precious time.
The fact that he felt proud after everything and called himself a rebel is the most difficult part for me. I can’t stop thinking of it, but I hope that with time I will get over it…
Hugs and blessings to everyone,
I hope we all heal soon.
I was just goofing around, Darwinsmom, about the lovebombing. I’ve had a few stalkers in the neighborhood over the years who gave me a creepy kind of over-the-top attention. I can’t say that I liked it. It was creepy. One used to leave interesting and anonymous “gifts” on my windshield. I ended up calling the police, though I did keep the guitar he left on my windshield. (!) I just happened to need an extra guitar for camping trips. But it was creepy that the benevolent stalker knew I play guitar.
Ms_Snowhite, there will come a time when it stops being a matter of “What He Did To Me,” and evolve into “How I Was Such A Perfect Target.”
As OxD explained, you’re experiencing the “normal” steps of grieving. Whether it’s the loss of a parent, or the loss of a promise, it’s still a LOSS and we have to go through the grieving process.
Yeah…..I understand the whole experience about being promised the world and actually being left high and dry. I’ve lost my home, my vehicle, my finances, and someone that I believed to care about me. The exspath targeted me, from the beginning, and led me down a merry path of false trust and empty promises. He literally stole my individual investments through forgeries and coercion, and left me sick, unemployed, destitute, and living in a house that was already in foreclosure (which I did NOT know about) with every utility 3 months in arrears, at least.
This is a question that is also “normal,” Ms_Snowhite. The marriage was an illusion, and the exspath could have ended it, LONG ago, when I still had the means and health to support myself. Instead, he ran my credit into the dirt, drained my private investments dry, and left when I was extremely sick, without a backward glance. Why? How could any empathetic human being do such a thing, EVEN if a marriage was over?
This is the answer to that question: because they can. Spaths do NOT have compassion, no matter what syllables issue from that hole in their faces. They do not FEEL empathy, regardless of the stream of tears they may squirt out of their eyes. They wouldn’t know truth if it fell out of the sky, landed on their faces, and commenced a lap-dance. They are PREDATORS and every aspect – eveyr aspect – was an illusion. They never “loved” us. They never “cared.” They never found us “desirable” beyond how they could use/abuse us. What we were to THEM was a disposable lighter. The do not have human connections, and this is one of the reaons that a breakup with a spath is so painful. We simply cannot wrap our heads around the fact – the FACT – that these people are basically entities within human forms that will never have a conscience, empathy, or remorse. Never. Never. Never.
So, hang in there, Ms_Snowhite. You’re still here, and you’re still breathing. A year ago, I thought that I was just going to lay down, go to sleep, and never wake up. Today, it’s NOT all about what the exspath did. Today, it’s all about how strong, resourceful, and capable I am in the face of adversity. FARK the spath!!!
Pfffffffffffffffffffffffft! (waving hand in dismissal) They aren’t even in the realm of humanity.
Brightest blessings!
Darwinsmom, Skylar, & Stargazer, what an interesting discussion!!!!
I always – without fail – seem to attract spaths. I also seem to attract people who suffer from physical damages. Twice, in 6 months, I had two severely disabled people move past several sales associates and end up directly speaking to me. One was in a wheelchair (I never learned the nature of his disability), and the other was a woman who had recovered from extremely severe burns. Both of these people made a B-Line for me, specifically.
Now, why IS that? This is an ongoing thing, too. These weren’t isolated incidents. No matter where I go or what I’m doing, people who have suffered extreme physical injuries or are in some sort of crisis find their ways to me, even if they have to navigate past other people to do it. Seriously – why IS that? It’s not a rhetorical question. I’d really like some insight on this phenomenon.
Brightest blessings