It’s an ambitious project—attempting to explain psychopaths in global leadership positions, a possible cause of what looks like psychopathic behavior, and what to do about it all. This is the documentary film, I am <fishead(, produced and directed by Misha Votruba and Vaclav Dejcmar.
Here’s a clip, featuring Dr. Robert Hare, the guru of psychopathy:
[youtube_sc url=http://youtu.be/xiDhVdCjaok rel=0 fs=1 autohide=1 modestbranding=1]Corporate psychopaths
Fishead is divided into three parts. Part 1 is about psychopaths, specifically corporate psychopaths, who are blamed for the global financial meltdown that began in 2008. This is probably true, although the only individual named is Bernie Madoff.
The authors of Snakes in Suits, Dr. Robert Hare and Dr. Paul Babiak, explain psychopathy, and how psychopaths in business claw and backstab their way to the top of organizations. Hare and Babiak certainly know their stuff, and you’ll recognize their descriptions of psychopathic behavior.
But then Hare and Babiak start talking about the difference between psychopaths and sociopaths. This is a matter of debate and disagreement in the mental health field, so essentially they are expressing their opinions and preferences, not fact. Hare mentions that the film Reservoir Dogs highlights the difference between psychopaths and sociopaths—apparently one kills because he has to and another kills because he likes it. But Hare didn’t specify which was which, and I wasn’t sure. My contention, of course, is that from the point of view of the dead guy, it doesn’t matter.
Antidepressants
Part 2 of Fishead goes off in a different direction. It’s about “happy pills—”antidepressants. As you watch, you may wonder if the filmmakers are claiming that antidepressants cause psychopathy, but they don’t quite go that far. Here’s what they write:
The second part of the film touches on how, for a small number of people, overuse of antidepressants can result in behaviors that appear to mimic some psychopathic features. Although overuse of these medications will not produce psychopathy, they may stifle emotion and decrease the user’s ability to feel empathy.
Actually, I think the real problem with antidepressants may not be that it makes users behave in sociopathic ways, but rather, antidepressants enable victims to tolerate sociopathic behavior in others.
For example, in my upcoming book, Red Flags of Lovefraud, I have a chapter on protecting yourself from predators. In the Internet survey that Lovefraud conducted last year, we asked if people involved in romantic relationships with sociopaths had an intuition or gut feeling early on that something was wrong. A whopping 71 percent of respondents answered yes. And 40 percent ignored their intuition.
Why? One woman explained:
I ignored it because I loved him. After a time he convinced me there was something wrong with ME and convinced me to go on antidepressants. The drugs mellowed me and I lost that feeling.
I’ve heard stories like this one many times—sociopaths are causing distress and to cope with it, the victims go on drugs. This can be the problem with antidepressants. We are upset because something is WRONG! If we no longer feel upset, we don’t try to change what is WRONG!
Change
The third part of the documentary asks the question, “So what do we do about all of this?”
Fishead talks about the work of Dr. Stanley Milgram, who conducted numerous famous experiments showing that most people will administer electric shocks to others, even though they know the person is being hurt, if they are directed to do it by someone in authority. But it points out an interesting experiment that is not as well known. Dr. Milgram also found that if the experiment subjects first saw someone refuse to administer the shocks, they were much more likely to refuse as well.
The point is that when people stand up to authority, or evil, it gives others the courage to stand up as well. In fact, the filmmakers say it only takes 5 percent of the people in a group to behave differently for the entire group to be influenced.
Food for thought
I am <fishead( is a well-made film. Artistically, it has an art-house feel to it, with stark backdrops for the guest expert interviews and clever animation. And, the film is narrated by the actor Peter Coyote.
Although I don’t agree with all the points, the film does a good job of drawing attention to what is probably the biggest hidden problem facing our society: the outsized damage caused by psychopaths (sociopaths). And it challenges us: What are we going to do about it?
For more about the movie, visit the website: Fisheadmovie.com.
You can watch the movie on the Internet—the length is 1 hour, 17 minutes. Just click the “where to see” link, and email the producers to get your free password.
Dear New,
The grief, and the lack of “joy” that goes with it will also pass, and as you recover, believe me your feelings of contentment, joy and spreading your arms wide to the world will return. It won’t be the Pollyanna-ish feelings of the “sound of Music” but it is still going to be good, believe me….it will come. It takes time, TIME T-I-M-E, and that is the thing we don’t want to give it, is the time it takes to heal.
I do think the grief support groups are beneficial. Also google Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, she worked with medical personnel with grief support, so she has some good stuff out there. She is gone now, but her work continues in helping others.
Yea, got to get to bed now and get rested up. I was on my feet today so long the bottoms of my feet are sore! Got a lot done though, and a satisfied feeling at night and being tired to he bone is still good….it is a great way to get to bed to rest up for the next day!
Yea, it will be bone breaking tired at the end of the day, but that is okay as well….goodnight!
Star we posted over each other….yes, I have “forgiven” the man who caused the crash…as far as generally getting the bitterness about that out of my heart, I knew from the get go that he did not intend to cause the crash. In fact, he and his wife came over here every day and I dressed his wounds and burns for 6 weeks daily after the crash….
The dishonesty he displayed after the crash and the simple greed….surprised me and disappointed me frankly. He had done business with us at the airport for a couple of years. My husband had given his son lessons, worked on his plane and done the upkeep and examinations required on aircraft and he had always been a “slow pay” with his bill….though he has PLENTY OF MONEY….but after the crash when months had gone by and he had not paid me I asked him for the money and his answer was “why do you need the money?”
Then the day the agent came to get the plane he had bought for his son he sent a POST DATED CHECK with the agent….and I could not let the airplane go until I had the cash or Ii would have lost my right to sue under a mechanic’s lien if I had released the plane with the bill unpaid. In my state a post dated check is no good…and if he had stopped payment on it, I would have had no recourse. Plus, I found that he had also done something unethical with a patient’s law suit…the patient had promised him a percentage of the judgment if he testified for her against the nursing home where he worked as a supervisor. He thought this was just fine and dandy when it was a total violation of ethics.
So I do not think this man is the kind of man I want for a friend, or his wife or daughter (that my son D dated and was very much in love with) but at the same time, “out of sight out of mind” so hadn’t thought about him in a long time…and SUDDENLY seeing him fed the “angry/bitter wolf” inside me and so I had to take charge of myself and my feelings. Today has actually been a good day Star, and I’m looking forward to the rest of the week and our plans for it. Good night!
ps Star, most psychotropic medications (with the exceptions of valium and other short acting anti-anxiety meds) are TOTALLY INEFFECTIVE if taken on an “as needed” basis, Zoloft is one of those that doesn’t give you immediate or even “Today” help….it takes time for the medications to build up in to a theraputic dose….2+ weeks or more and in some cases a month or more to see if the medication is going to help with that individual. Psychotropic medications should not be started or stopped suddenly or without consulting your health care provider and the person who Rx’d the medication.
Oxy, you are so inspiring in how you handle the challenges in your life. Denver is big enough so that I could roam the city for years and never run into anyone I know, far less an enemy. I’m glad you had a good day and hope it continues into tomorrow.
iamfishhead movie,
First I want to say I admire Donna for starting and maintaining this site. I have benefitted from many articles and discussions, though I am not a regular.
I am currently caught by a highlevel narcissistic-psychopathic brother in an inherited business that he is trying to destroy and make me financially responsible for either sibling jealousy (he was not a favored child in my father’s eyes, not that I was either, but not to the extent that he ingratiated himself when his issues started coming out). or he is just doing it to ‘win’ and have me lose. Who knows what motivates the specific behaviors. I have a lawyer and am trying to get out as fast as I can with as little liability for the business as possible.
So my P is not a love interest.
I have several thoughts on the iamfishhead movie:
I liked it, but I also thought it did not go far enough.
I liked the representation of the P climbing the corporate ladder, but I agree that the bloody cartoon violence will confuse the issue of most of them not being violent. The problem is that it is so hard to show how they really behave since they hide it so well. Like a thousand sharp tentacles woven into a toxic tapestry that must be looked at closely in detail to see what it really is….but then, of course….it is too late if you get that close.
What I though they were saying in the section on anti depressants is that these types of drugs remove the user’s ability to care, albeit in order that they not hurt from the thing causing them anxiety or depression. That part is good, but the unintended consequence is that removing the part of us that cares compromises our empathy. I don’t think they were saying it turns us into full blown psychopaths, but just that it temporarily removes our empathy, thus we temporarily lose our empathy. Those that read ‘The Sociopath Next Door’ may recall that even normal people under certain circumstances can lose their ability to empathize (recall the story of the man forgetting to feed his dog and in one hypothetical case, empathizing with the dog, but in another where he gets the flu on top of everything else, then he loses his empathy for the dog). I have not taken any antidepressants, so I do not have any experience with this, but I certainly wish I could ‘not care’ about the things that are bringing me anxiety sometimes. But who among us would want to lose our empathy?
Finally, I was very encouraged by the studies they referred to that indicate we only need 5 or 6 percent of us to turn the tide. I love the idea of 3 degrees of separation. I don’t remember exactly what that was about, but I liked it.
We may not be able to ‘convert’ the world to what we are trying to shed light on, but if enough of us learn and spread the word, maybe we have a shot.
O.k., one more shot at my thoughts on the nomenclature issue, as I can be stubborn to a fault when I get my mind set on it. Most people really do not even want to talk about or hear about the psychopath/personality disorder issue. This prevents us from getting the word out and, in my opinion, makes it a futile effort to spin our wheel on ‘official’ terminology and getting down to what to call the different flavors of personality disorders. I think we should use the term toxic and refer to them as tox’s and get on with the business of spreading the word. My reasoning is that it quickly alerts the listener that these are poisonous people and does not have the violent connotations of pyschopath, misleading ‘social’ connotations of sociopath or the also misleading ‘auntie-social’ of anti-social. I did several ‘counts’ on various sections of the blog and the word toxic is usually the most used word of the group, thought not as nomenclature, but only in a descriptive term. Just my two cents.
Thanks everybody for participating. Keep the warming fires burning!
KatyDid, thank you for clarifying the portion of the movie discussing antidepressants and the abuse of them in society and over prescribing of them for the wrong reasons. That is perfectly logical and I agree with that. I should not have presumed to know what the point was in the movie.
It seems everyone I know or have ever met is either on medication for anxiety or depression or they’re even selling drugs (painkillers from surgery, etc) and it’s rampant. It’s depressing- no pun intended.
I have to go for a check up every 6 months to get my prescription refilled. It never ceases to amaze me how addicts or people who self medicate know how to abuse or use the system to get their fix. I would never take prozac if I didn’t need to, if I didn’t feel it worked for me. Why bother? At 40 I was overdo in my opinion, on getting help from antidepressants, like I said even before meeting the psychopath. I still think my being depressed made my more vulnerable to”IT”‘s manipulation.
Yes, abuse of antidepressants as well as many other drugs, is a big problem in today’s society and the ramifications canNOT be good!
I’m not sure how the differences between psychopaths and sociopaths is still up for debate. In Without Conscience doesn’t Hare talk about a study where psychopaths, sociopaths and schizophrenics all tested the same within their groups? This study had to be in the late ’80’s. Since then Blair has done lots of study on psychopaths, sociopaths and has come to the same conclusion. This is all part of the update to the DSM that will occur in 2013. Unless I’m missing something.
I think the part about the meds refers to all the “doctors” who put profits over people. And that’s a substantial amount of psychopaths right there! Big Pharma is making big bucks off people who are “depressed”. I’m sure clinical depression is serious, don’t get me wrong there. But depression stems from trauma and should be treated with trauma therapy. It’s way easier and less time consuming for any doctor to just write a script and send the patient on his way with nothing more. It’s a disservice to people and society. I think that’s a valid point. I totally agree that antidepressants enable victims to tolerate sociopathic behavior in others.
If you don’t think Fishead went far enough please let me recommend the movie Shame, directed by Steve McQueen. This movie is about the sex lives of psychopaths. Reviews say the movie is about sex addiction but this is only this particular manifestation of psychopathy. Shame takes the part where Fishead mentions promiscuity and brings this to the forefront. For anyone who has experienced Love Fraud this is a must-see.
Dear Woundlicker,
I’m glad that your prescriber is keeping an eye on your medication and effectiveness. Yes, depression does make us more vulnerable. And the residual effects of prior trauma as well. Good going!@.......
Dear Oxy,
In a response to the other day, the one where you ran into your nemesis, well, how hard that was to face….Year: 2000….My second husband secretly planned to leave me plotting with his toxic family and tricked me into going on a visit to them in Florida. He then filed for divorce in Fl claiming I lived there.
We came back and he then left me. taking his daughter who was my stepdaughter, she was 8 then and knew me as Mommy, as I cared for her from age 4….all the while her and I, would hug each other and cry, knowing we would soon be separated…My other daughter was troubled, age 17, into drugs and I had to help her to get off them etc….(I had left my career to care for his daughter)….SOOO….the day he was going to leave with my stepdaughter, I put her upon my lap, kissing her cheeks, her eyes, her head, her lips, and he screamed at us saying that He wasn’t the one creating all this emotion!”….we parted and her big blue eyes looking up at him in disbelief as she walked past him to the car…she was holding a little pillow I had bought for her to squeeze when she felt lost or sad…it read: Miracles happen to those who Believe…
When he returned from taking her to Florida and to get his stuff, I tried to call her since he told me she was very sad. He pulled the phone away, and shoved me. I went to give him a pop in the jaw, which I did, and he threw hot tea in my face….Then he called the police and he got arrested…jerk….I hightailed it to a friends, and after one week, went back to the apartment finding I had been locked out….I went to my Landlords, husband and wife team, to demand the key as the lease was in both of our names….no dice…they said i might go back and murder him….
At the time, i was so beaten and I wasn’t thinking straight….I just waited until he left for good, stayed away, and then came back to get what he left me…so stupid I was….The landlords would not give me our security and so on…..They were so horrible to me and I had been such a good tenant, even washing the outside of the house, planting roses, etc…He had convinced them I was a crazy woman…..
Well, anyhow, after I moved on in my life, I found out my stepdaughter had sent a letter to one of my friends asking where she “could find my mommy”. Makes one feel kicked in the gut…..I still cry over it….But the good news was that we reconnected this past year and will be seeing each other again…
Oxy, the reason I am saying all this is because when I moved back into the area where the Landlords live, I knew that one day I would run into them again…..So, I came up with a few words I would say….That day happened when I went to a hardware store and looked up and there was the husband landlord….He smirked and gave me a big hello….I gave back my Clint Eastwood squint and coldly said “Well, well, if it isn’t the lynch mob…where’s your other half of the mob?”……He looked shocked and threw down the stuff he had in his hand and ran out of the store…..Of course, not to compare with your story, losing your husband to incompetence on the part of a neglectful man, but I was reminded of my face to face encounter…..
The hides: If the guy has the rest of your hides, he probably will make some agreement with you…too bad we can’t wear our six shooters on our belts anymore….
hugs((((()))))…..You are one of the strongest women I know….always look up to you and so do all of us here at LF…
Donna, upcoming Monday will be your episode of “Who the bleep did I marry.”