Those of us who have been psychologically abused by sociopaths—whether we’re male or female, and whether the abuser is male or female—know that the abuse should be criminal. It appears that in France, it just may happen.
A Lovefraud reader sent me a link to an interesting story in Time Magazine. Legislators from France’s ruling party are expected to introduce a bill that would outlaw “conjugal abuse of a psychological nature” in both married and unmarried relationships.
According to Time,
The legislation seeks to target the verbal and mental denigration, humiliation and manipulation that typically lead to physical abuse. The hope is that the bill will help prevent the emotional wounds that words often cause before a punch is ever thrown.
I hope the law gets passed. I hope it works. We’ll have to see what happens.
Read the article on Time.com:
Wow you two have been little angels tonight through a dark night of the soul – thankyou – very much appreciated.
I know he chose her because she is young and dumb and determined, but I also know the youth thing is designed to sting. It shouldn’t be that way for men – that they can just replace replace replace but it is. And it’s societally acceptable. She will be a good mark for him to groom – she’s responsible, likes to think she’s older and more mature than she really is and is out to prove herself among the big fish. She will think she can fix him.
I know it is not all about her and him. I know this process of going back to childhood and seeing when all the seeds of doubt were planted. I know all that – I know it was never anything personal. I was never anything special – just another source of supply as she will inevitably be. I think she will get it worse too if she sticks around. I am going to leave a letter for her with a trusted friend of mine who knows her on the periphery. The friend will give it to her if the relationship lasts for six months or a year or more. It may save her the years I lost. Even though I don’t like her as a person, something in me just doesn’t want to see him able to destroy someone else in front of me. I won’t have any contact with her and there is no point in warning her now- she wouldn’t believe it. But a year from now when the confusion and mind games start – well then if she gets an indication that this is normal for him and this is what he is despite all his protests – well that will be an out for her. She still may not believe it, but at least I will have planted the seed for her and she will get out quicker than me. I have thought about this for quite some time now and it feels like the right thing to do. I know he won’t change – he will try to destroy her like he did me. It would have made all the difference in the world for me to have been given a letter from a previous lover outlining their experience and intimate details that I was seeing already. Had someone else named him a sociopath, I would have started looking at the symptoms and dischord between words and behaviour much sooner than I did. It is a miracle I was even clear enough to start finding information towards the end as I did. So … it’s not revenge – it’s exposure and truth telling and hopefully it will stop a whole lot of damage. I will ensure that the friend gets the letter back so it cannot be used against me in the future.
I think I have to move from here. He is actively destroying my character in the city with everyone he meets and painting himself as the poor abandoned victim – no doubt that is part of the charm that drew her in – poor guy – partner turfed him out for no good reason other than she is a bitch and now he’s struggling on his own. The truth could not be further from that.
I still want revenge. The letter is not revenge. I consider that a kindness to her and paying something good forward so this knowledge I have goes beyond me and protects someone else. I feel sorry for her naivety. But revenge is definitely something I want badly. And I know in all logic, I can’t have it. I don’t know what to do about that. Somehow consoling myself with ‘well at least you’re not the incomplete human … and just let it go … and his life is his penance’ well it doesn’t seem anywhere near fair for what he inflicted on me. Even success is the best revenge just seems hollow right now. Maybe I just need to sit with these concepts and let them wash over me till they fit like a piece of clothing. They don’t feel comfortable right now – it feels like giving up and letting him win, but I know he always gets the last word. Maybe it’s the rebelliousness that should have come out long ago finally emerging and demanding its day! I know fullly that this is a hard learning and spiritually the worst and probably most valuable one I will ever get, but hells bells I coul have done without it at this point in my life! I am crying over spilt milk and I know it – waste of time and energy but my brain keeps going back to it.
Thanks for telling me it gets better. I am trying to be brave and just let whatever needs to come out come out – it’s very very painful and quite a scary process to go through – some days are super up and others feel like scraping the bottom of the well I was trapped in for so many years. But I don’t want to bottle and pretend everything is ok – it’s not ok. I am badly hurt and scarred from this. I have never hated anyone before. I will be glad to move through the hatred – it is not me at all. But it wants to come out – it feels like a childish emotion ‘I hate you because you hurt me’ – it feels like all hates that should have been expressed rolled into one and just emerging now. Lots of change going on inside – I am trusting it will be good change once I get to equilibrium.
Thanks so much for listening and pulling my head out of my ass – the sun has come up and a new day has dawned. One thing I am going to do for myself today … even though I am tired I am going to muster the good energy that comes from love and let that drive the day so good things happen 🙂
Much love to you both LTL and One step – you are both beautiful and patient and understanding people and I am blessed to have you in my life!
Midlife – I like what you are going to do for yourself today -its one thing we can all do today for ourselves! Thanks…
I also like your idea to just sit with all the concepts you are thinking through. You are definitely going through lots of thoughts and giving them time and consideration rather than acting on them impulsively. BRAVO!!
Keep in mind, we cannot “protect” anyone who doesnt want to be protected especially if she is someone who you said doesnt like you and she knows you dont like her. Sending any letter may really backfire. But writing your thoughts out and contemplating the pros and cons of giving it to her is a great idea. Sit with it for a while and see where it takes you…
The best revenge is getting on with your life. (I HATED HEARING THAT ONE TOO) But man is it SO TRUE. To just up and wash your hands of anything that reminds you of him. You know the truth – as you proceed with your act together and your head held high and proud that you left an abusive dysfunctional relationship lets you not get caught up in his ways.
Im not sure what youre referring to when you say you feel like giving up and letting him win. But I do know letting go is one way YOU WIN. Crying is healing too.. its not a waste of time when your brain NEEDS to revisit everything and process it and go over it — I use to set aside a few hours a day to “go there in my mind” and then turn it off as it got easier to do so. I learned the most when I was willing to be okay with falling apart once in a while —
Everything that you are feeling is part of the unraveling of a traumatic experience. For some it was just that one particular experience.. For others it is layered with prior types of trauma/difficult situations in their lives. You shared that what you want to come out of you are the words “I hate you because you hurt me” … is there anyone else you can think of that you might have wanted to say this to in your past? There may or may not be. But its worth asking yourself as you are going on this journey..
Thank you for sharing your story – everything that comes out – needs to. And at the same time you are shedding light for others going through a difficult time too. You are going in a good direction – change is good …equilibrium is attainable….not easily…but it is! Have a beautiful day letting the good energy in today! Enjoy that warm sunshine for a few minutes today! xo
Hi Midlifecrisis
I was aware that my previous comment was possibly going to hurt some of you, and I am very sorry about that. As I said earlier, I have had a very hard time myself after collisioning with a “snake in suit”. It impacted my life so much that after recovering and getting some insight on my experience, I decided to take on studies again to become a psychologist. I still have a long way to go, but I’ll make it.
While agonizing in my psychiatric hospital, I discovered I could write and make people laugh about my plight, paradoxically. My hell could morph into an entertaining topic for others. I made a novel out of it and I had it published. I’m still highly anxious and I get easily depressed, but ”“ although painful – I consider it a valuable part of my personality, one that allows me to develop a strange lucidity over some matters, one that stimulates my creativity and intelligence (when I am not too depressed), and one that incessantly prods me into being more empathic.
Proust wrote that one can only grasp a true sense of conscience once he has gone through hell (approximative quote). Depression is not a goal, but it’s not devoid of meaning.
CAmom – I cannot find your post to me earlier, can you tell me where it is? It’ snot coming up in the comments section when i type in your screen name OR queridita 😉
yeah, One Step: i posted to you on your It Starts at Home Story. and it disappeared. So i put it in the dog killers comments.
Mike
Nicolaid,
I have also experienced a “Snake in Suit” and came here as there was little else out there in this regard.
I was overwhelmed by the emotional heartache screaming in posts at times. I didn’t understand it myself as i’ve never been there myself. Many times it made my problems seem so much smaller in comparison. Although being faced with one at work did wreck havoc to my calm and I felt like the rug was just being pulled from out beneath me and i couldn’t do anything about it.
It changed my life too. Kinda hard to go No Contact when it’s a job you sort of need to go back to. And Snakes in Suits are, i think more common in our very capitalist competitive USA. So what exactly am i going to do? Quit everytime i’m faced with one at work? I’m in limbo right now.
Are you an Aspie? You sound like so many of us.
Mike
Onestep:
I can’t find the entire thread–It Starts at Home. No idea where it went~~Bermuda Triangle? I’m a Luddite w/almost zero computer skills, but still…it’s just…gone! Que pasa?
Autisticsouls –
Re: Snakes in suits — I find that my jobs never required me to become best friends with ALL of my co-workers. In fact, its virtually impossible. So why not adopt the rule – if it slithers like a snake – it must be and steer clear. If certain days require interaction then sobeit – but just as with romantic involvement with a “S” – – once you become boring, uninterested, a fly on the wall – they will back off. As much as they can try to control and manipulate you — when you are one step ahead with awareness and limiting interaction (have to go make a call, use mens room, have a deadline I have to meet or simply distancing yourself as much as possible — you will see them move on to the next office victim rather quickly. It does require you to exert energy to stay on your toes with them — but its much less energy than butting heads with them!
Good luck! Make them insignificant to your daily workday.
MidlifeCrisis – you are now one of my LF hero’s…….
Nicolaid,
You raise quite a few issues regarding psychopaths. If I may summarize, I see the following issues in your posts: male/female gender variance (in regard to psychopathic traits and “victim” traits; pathology of the victim; characteristic profiles (outward signs and behaviors) of the psychopath and the “victim”; sociopolitical and legal ramifications; and public perception and the media (although you don’t address this issue head on, it is brought up by the virtue of you citing media representation of cases). Since many of your statements echo what is regularly the perception and voiced response of the majority of the public when confronted with cases of psychopaths and abuse, I think it serves as a great example to clarify some cloudiness and confusion on the topic. Because indeed, there is a veritable dust storm of cloudiness surrounding psychopathy, and also codependency and personality disorders. One could argue that we really are in the dark ages when it comes to understanding what’s going on in these cases.
You wrote:
“males and females have ”“ on average ”“ different expectations when it comes to choosing a romantic partner, and I believe that women are more at risk to get fooled because of the nature of their sexual/romantic turn-ons. Psychopathic males regularly turn out to be Don Juans (see Rocancourt) while the most desired females are often simply physically attractive.”
Yes, men and women, following the general gender spectrum of attraction to mates, are different in what they are attracted to. However, it does not follow from this that women are therefore at more risk for being fooled or conned by a Don Juan type of psychopath, than a man would be at risk for being fooled by a Femme Fatal (the female equivalent of the Don Juan). Both, the Don Juan and the Femme Fatal have the same modus operandi – The Seducer. It could in fact, be argued that men are more at risk with a sexually seductive psychopath con artist, since men, on average place sexual satisfaction higher on their needs scale than do women. But this is quibbling. BOTH men AND women are at risk from the seductive flavor of predator. This brings me to my next point. The Don Juan/Femme Fatal predator is only ONE type of psychopath. Or, perhaps to make a finer point of it, the Seducer MASK or outward primary persona is only one of many. They, the psychos, all utilize this function. Not all of them use it as their primary lure though.
You wrote:
Many women are attracted to status, resources, social dominance, assertiveness, charisma, charm. Male psychopaths can easily fake status and resources : they may wear a classy suit, rent an expensive car, date in posh restaurants and casually mention prestigious, imaginary connections and previous luxury holidays, thus appearing « successful » on the surface. Many women get fooled for the very same reasons organizations unwittingly recruit « snakes in suits ».
This example is very rare indeed. The research shows that the pathology of the psychopath is such that he/she is rarely highly successful. Their inability to control themselves and their impulsive nature inevitably trips them up, at which point they self destruct their lives (either they blow it up themselves by their own anti-social behavior, or they act so heinously as to blow up everyone around them, figuratively speaking), and then have to start from scratch again. The cases of highly successful psychos are the rare cases of those that are high enough functioning that they have set up such an elaborate SYSTEM of SUPPORT that they are impossible to take down. These one are the MASTERS of the GAME. They do this by evilly and deceptively blackmailing everyone they come into contact with. So, to take them down would be an act of self destruction for everyone involved.
The VAST MAJORITY of psychopaths are not as proficient at their game as the masters. They do the same things, but on a smaller scale. They are NOT socially dominant and they as a rule, do not have much social status. They also are not assertive for the most part. They are usually aggressive, or passive- aggressive. Charisma and charm is what they use as bait. All of the expensive and prestigious trappings that you list as an attraction device to lure women to a sociopath, I think are usually ones that can very easily be detected as fake. Generally speaking these are the ones who are caught onto the quickest, unless someone is very naive. I dated one of these types (not for long) a number of years ago, about a year after my divorce and I was just starting to test the dating waters. He was smooth, charming, impeccably dressed and groomed, well spoken when I met him. He complimented me and gave me his business card as I left a martini lounge with a girlfriend. He was a snake. I dated him for a few months, (not seriously) but sooooo much slime started to ooze out of this guy, a lawyer, once he let his guard down, that he made me sick. I broke it off with him Noooo problem. He had all the trappings of material success. I could name drop and brand drop, but I won’t. I hate that crap. The thing about it was that’s not what made me call him a few days after getting his card. It was the CHARM. I called him “High Roller Bill” once jokingly (and quite sarcastically, since by this point I couldn’t stand him and was about to break it off) and he laughed!!! He loved it. He took it as a compliment. The “HIGH ROLLER” lowlifes are easy to spot. They are also in the minority. Not as much of a minority as the MASTERS, but still not anywhere near as much as the “PITY BOYS” or “POOR BOYS”. These guys are by far and away the majority of the psychopaths who bait women, NOT the two examples that you have described.
I point this distinction out because I think it helps to identify the different flavors of the psychopaths. But, more to the point of some of what you wrote, the two types you name, and then claim that somehow these are noticeable and women should recognize them and therefore their own attraction to the psychopathic character is to blame, makes the argument murky. The situation is muc more complicated then that.
First of all let’s look at the obvious KNOWN ENTITY, the MASTER – the one who is right out there in your face obviously a total evil prick (there are females like this too). ANYONE attracted to these types (known, even famous felons, famous philanderers and criminals, etc.) quite obviously have a sickness, a pathology of their own. I believe that anyone attracted to someone who is quite apparently evil incarnate either has an extreme codependency and attraction for severe masochistic reasons OR he or she is a PSYCHO THEMSELVES. The cases when someone, as you put it “suddenly” decides they were abused, if they happen in such cases, are extremely rare. In the first case, most the people who have a pathological/masochistic attraction to MASTERS (usually women), are so far gone into their illness they have no clue and in the rare case that abuse is alleged afterward, it is generally at the behest of a pshychologist, not the “victim”. The other scenario of “suddenly” claiming abuse is one of the “PITY PLOY” by a psychopath. One such famous case of this is Karla Homolka, who claimed the battered woman defense in the Bernardo sex/torture/killings of school girls (a gruesome famous case in Canada). She was anything BUT a battered woman. Au contraire. She is definitely a psychopath herself.
You wrote:
“As a male, I am more attracted to youth, beauty and moral qualities such as empathy, modesty, shyness, honesty. Those qualities are much more difficult to mimic on the long term for a psychopath because she naturally is the antithesis. ”
Are you so sure that they are hard to mimic? Don’t be so sure! Psychopaths have been practicing mimicking real human emotions from the time they could walk and talk. That’s ALL THEY DO. Empathy is one they have a hard time with and dishonesty is generally THE tip-off. But modesty and shyness CAN be faked! Also, something to keep in mind is that shyness may be something YOU are attracted to and may be a desirable trait in some cultures. But, in many other cultures, fun-loving and outgoing are more desirable traits that men look for in women. Also, sexually responsive and not uptight, is another one. I have a good friend that was taken in by a female sociopath like this. I’ve been talking to my friend about psychopathy since my own experience with a P. He now says she is clearly a “Borderline Psycho”, as in Borderline Personality Disorder, but at first she was just very fun, vibrant, affectionate, easy-going and sexy. She knew how to play her GAME. He felt like she was his ideal woman. Until he caught her (walked in on her) sleeping with the guy from 2 doors down and he wasn’t the only other one, and then she went ballistic on him (my friend) calling him every name in the book and throwing things and then threatening suicide. Ooooops there goes the mask!!
For the record, if you still think you can’t be fooled, my MOM acts shy and modest and helpless around every male that she thinks she can reel into her game. She is ANYTHING BUT. She is a total fake, a liar, a blackmailer, a user, a manipulator, a backstabber, vicious and violent.
You wrote:
“I know many women have difficulty leaving their psychopathic man, even when they get severely abused. This is an interesting phenomenon that used to puzzle me a lot. Here again, I believe this rarely happens to those men who get involved with psychopathic women. I believe there are gender specificities when it comes to romantic involvement with psychopaths, although there are huge variations withing each gender, of course.”
Yes. There ARE gender differences that account for this. I do believe that it comes down to women being conditioned from a young age to be more empathic and also for women generally to be more empathetic in nature. I think that the empathy ties in with the BONDING that occurs and the ATTACHMENT that goes on in these relationships. I think that gender differences in men and women make it perhaps easier for men to break that bond.
There is also the issue of OVER accountablility and OVER responsibility that happens with women in relationships, in which women TAKE ON all the problems and blame for what’s wrong (which actually rightfullly should be on the shoulders of the men when it comes to psychopaths) and therefore become crippled in their own self blaming quagmire. Men in general, do this MUCH LESS. Perhaps this is why gay men, having some similarities to women emotionally, are over represented in the cases of men who stay bonded in abusive relationships – just a theory.
So, speaking of parsimony, it would not be wise to hastily assume that those who describe brainwashing, are eschewing responsibility. If we examine the much more complicated scenarios, those who very courageously step forward often to public humiliation, disbelief and possible further attack, are actually guilty of the OPPOSITE. taking TOO MUCH RESPONSIBILITY.
lightsaber