Those of us who have been psychologically abused by sociopaths—whether we’re male or female, and whether the abuser is male or female—know that the abuse should be criminal. It appears that in France, it just may happen.
A Lovefraud reader sent me a link to an interesting story in Time Magazine. Legislators from France’s ruling party are expected to introduce a bill that would outlaw “conjugal abuse of a psychological nature” in both married and unmarried relationships.
According to Time,
The legislation seeks to target the verbal and mental denigration, humiliation and manipulation that typically lead to physical abuse. The hope is that the bill will help prevent the emotional wounds that words often cause before a punch is ever thrown.
I hope the law gets passed. I hope it works. We’ll have to see what happens.
Read the article on Time.com:
hens – you’re early tonight!
Onestep – I had to give Jane a smile – cause she always gives me one. I have been thinkin Nicolaid would bring her out of hiding. I knew she could respond in an appropriate but to the point way. He does seem like a smart feller but unless one has been run over by what he seems to be expert about he dont know nuttin, just a bunch of words…
hens – its fortifying to know there are layers and layers of us protecting this space.
One thing that struck me about this post was that we also have a unresolved murder in our family, where the suspect has (we feel) another victim in his charge who we feel knows what happened and for some reason is defending him. We have wondered why she is defending him still, is she afraid? How much did she actually help him out? Why won’t she come forward? She is very brainwashed and very broken herself we know this much.
My wife’s aunt took a stand and said, “Enough is Enough!” she was reclaiming her life after so many years being under his thumb. She was very optimistic about starting her life over. About being free of him, even advising the other victim to break free from his hold. She got killed soon after.
We even had a segment on Channel 7’s Out for Justice: Noemi Custodio
http://www.wsvn.com/features/articles/justice/MI61458/#?autoStart
It was pretty much an all out appeal for her (his other victim) to come forward, she is his alibi, but from what we know of her she is but another one of his victims’ and has not come forward maybe out of fear, or whatever else… She is not like him, and we are trying to understand why she will continue to cover up for him. It is an open case still, she was my wife’s aunt and and one of her primary caregivers, and the world to her children and special needs grandchildren. So when Nicolaid said:
“…Feeling empathy or even tolerance for the psychopath is showing callous disregard for those who are on the receiving end…”
I thought of my wife’s aunt and how she broke out from his spell, but his ‘other victim’ did not, and because of her complete devotion and dedication to him, he is still walking free today after taking the life of a valued member of our family. We like to know why. why someone not like him could be so enveloped into him that even murder won’t shake her out of it.
Remember what is known in the mainstream media is what we think IS unless otherwise directed or investigated into. I, myself knew nothing about subtler psychopath’s, like workplace psychopath’s, and other bullies, until just recently.
I seek to understand, like Nicolaid seemed to want to understand who came here by what he experienced and seemed to be looking for more information to understand the whys of things. There isn’t much ‘out there’ in awareness.
Sometimes there are people who will come to seek information here, since there is really isn’t much anywhere else and some of them aren’t going to come here to hold hands while they try to make sense of things or understand what happened. We still have an unresolved murder, we still are afraid to send our kids to public school, we want to understand more about why it is this is still happening with little awareness or information out there, and why some people allow it and what we can do to stop this sort of thing from continuing on.
Why is there not enough information out there media-wise preparing folks for this sort of thing? The extreme cases down to the subtler cases. Sometimes it’s difficult to dissemate information or disscuss things without feeling like walking on egg shells afraid to say the wrong thing around here.
Mike
No, not so safe here really, not unless you agree with everyone else, not if you are not adequately informed of the latest research that makes about 90% or more of our current population which in turn will also not be so safe here. And don’t even anyone come around asking questions with preconceived notions of what a psychopath is or does based on what the media tells us and the books we may have read on the subject because then it’s an automatic personal attack. Not if being honest is also construed as a personal attack. people don’t want honesty, they to want to be lied to.
Although LF comes up second or third on a Google search of “Workplace Sociopaths”, I’ve been warned that unless one has been intimately involved with one, one really does not belong here. Anyone with preconceived notions fed by the media of what a psychopath is and does will also instead of being educated here will likely be pounced upon and character attacked instead. And it seems completely acceptable to do that here. I don’t like anyone being bullied who did not deserve to have been. I hate to see anyone unjustly treated in a manner they did not deserve.
I think over 90% of the population has a stereotype in mind of what they assume what a psychopathic experience is, so instead of educating them I guess they should all be mobbed or why not just crucify them all for not knowing or understanding what the actual reality of what a ’romantic’ psychopathic experience can be?
This really bugged me a lot. I have heard from others that they have been attacked and jumped here when they were looking for information for their issues but because it was not the same experience as others they had no where else to go for support. If they warned me about this not being a good place for support, why did my wife even bother to sign us up here? I told her I didn’t belong here. It’s obvious I’m not wanted here either. Somewhere along the way I have overstayed my welcome here, even before I witness an online thrashing.
I’ve been told by others that this is a: “people who only have slept with a psychopath ONLY” online support group and anyone with any other non romantic issues or experiences with psychopaths would not only, not have much to relate to, but will also be made to feel VERY unwelcome here. I realize the truth in that now.
There is little mention of corporate psychopaths, workplace bullies, everyday schemers, and other psychopaths that prey on society out there. This is a small effort, and it’s a noble effort, but this is a strictly: “Those who have had psychopathic lovers only” arena, Hence, the name LoveFraud. I guess what would anyone not having had the same experience be doing here anyhow?
My friend told me a psychopathic victim, is a psychopathic victim, we’ve all been burned by them, we’ve all suffered in their hands, many who are not just romantically involved with them have just as much been destroyed by them, but she’s visited this site before and told me there is no solidarity here. Other ’types’ of psychopathic victims should go somewhere else or risk further emotional pain here on LF.
That there isn’t much to do here when it’s so very cliquey and you don’t belong to the same club.
And teachers have learned to suffer alone. Here in Florida psychopaths rule the public school system, teachers are bullied, parents are bullied, children are abused, and although it’s really bad in Florida it looks like a nationwide epidemic.
One teacher who questioned a psychopathic administrator was forced to quit a year AFTER she was named Teacher of the Year.
Another one was doing her job ensuring that students were receiving the proper funding, she was ostracized and bullied for it, she had to transfer out to another district where her history followed and the psychopathic administrators there played out the same abuse. Some school administrators like to ’play’ with funding and even though it was her job to look through things she was singled out and emotionally tortured for doing her job.
One teacher felt that teaching would be her life, got out of school looking forward to start. She transferred out of state here with high hopes ’of making a difference’. But the injustices were too much for her to witness, or ignore, when she questioned them she was then targeted. She was laid off from work and could not be rehired, she could not sell her house, or pay her student loans, or do what she came here to do, which was to teach. After foreclosure she became severely depressed and suicidal. All she ever wanted to do was to teach.
One teacher after years of devotion to her students, who had wanted to be a teacher since she was a child, was bullied until she suffered a nervous breakdown, her crime for being targeted was recommending that a child needed speech therapy during an IEP meeting. She is now a dog groomer.
Parents who were immigrants, ended up having their severely autistic child placed into ESOL instead of ESE, by the school team recommendation, prompted by psychopathic administrators and bullied teachers too afraid to say anything sitting in the meeting frozen, eyes staring on the floor not looking at the parents who were pleading at them to say something. The mother didn’t understand how her speaking another language at home had caused her son’s autism.
School Administrators in Due Process hearings routinely force teachers and aides to lie in court or suffer the consequences. One Special Ed teacher was coerced into agreeing to lie in court, when she was unable to, she ended up not only having to leave her job but starting anew in another state as no one else would take her here.
Some aides came forward and testified in court against a Special Ed Veteran Teacher who was physically and verbally abusing her special needs children by pushing them, and kicking them, dragging them around and hitting them routinely. The teacher returned to work after a mere suspension, the aides who have come forward have all lost their jobs, or have been made to quit.
We have had school board members under investigation by the FBI and some arrests have been made. The school district is arrogant and belligerent in their response to the federal investigation. School officials have prompted school employees not to discuss things or to cooperate with the federal investigation.
Other school employees stay quiet and look away to avoid being targeted next. They have mortgages, families, health insurance. They know when to look away. They avoid becoming targets, and turn their heads away in shame when another teacher is targeted. Thankful that today it isn’t them.
Psychopaths in the school system don’t work alone, they are organized. They have free reign to do as they please, and take special joy and humor in the destruction of the careers of one of their targets. It’s like a special psychopathic blood bath when they get together and they decide to destroy someone’s career, they ensure others do not move ahead, and reward their lapdogs. Some have laughed if they can get the individual to break down, some even have made bets on it.
We had psychologist advocate for students from the CARD center uneasy by what he stated was the amount of psychopaths in the public schools. The Psychologists and advocates from the public center weren’t allowed on the school grounds. Their recommendations were ignored. Parents, helpless as the center tells them they are helpless in defending their children or them from the schools. That word stuck on me, “”our schools are run and controlled by ’Psychopaths’…”
I did not understand why so many school employees would protect, stand by, or defend the psychopathic administrator or whoever else it was. Their fear and passive complacency was damaging us all. One teacher stated that she has kids, health insurance a mortgage. She simply couldn’t risk it.
The comment made by Nicolaid before he was made to shut up and was told to not post anymore on LF, struck home to me, and others here victimized by psychopaths in an entire different arena, “”Feeling empathy or even tolerance for the psychopath is showing callous disregard for those who are on the receiving end—
I think when it is an intimate relationship it’s easy to view it as simply something only happening to oneself. In other arenas such as in the workplace or in the school system, tolerance for the psychopath is being a passive contributor to someone else’s abuse and is “”a callous disregard for others on the receiving end…” And I think it took another victim of workforce psychopath to really understand what he was saying.
Love victims seem to only see what has happened to themselves, they seem too caught up in their own pain to see anything else outside of themselves. Just not seemingly able to see the damage done outside of themselves. Like only their pain and suffering is valid. Many others will disagree. they suffered just as bad even if they didn’t sleep with a psychopath.
Like a local woman here who suffered abuse for years but wouldn’t pull herself together in time to protect her children, so that no matter what she says now, her kids still consider her a passive contributor to their abuse.
Other psychopathic victims (not romantically involved) do seem to see the psychopath’s handiwork in themselves and others. Take any school teacher here in Florida, unless they are a lapdog, they know the full scale of psychopaths carnage.
But why am I even bothering? What are ’we’ doing here anyhow? This isn’t a “victims of psychopaths” forum, it’s a “victim lovers of psychopaths only” forum.
But although my friends have told me to not bother, that this isn’t even worth wasting our time here. It just needs to be said.
Like Nicolaid, we as a family also read have also read Hervey Cleckley, the Mask of Sanity specifically in regards to as the basis of what Nicolaid was assessing and basing what he knew on: Devotion of women for psychopaths, 180-182, 196, 197-198, 444
We’ve also all read it. Numerous times, many times until we can repeat it verbatim, in attempting to understand why the ’other victim’ of my aunt’s wife’s murderer still defended him to the point of possibly being an accomplice to murder. We read it over and over in an attempt to understand her complete devotion and dedication to him. She is the only reason he is still walking free today after taking the life of a mother and grandmother, a very pertinent member of our family. We’ve all been robbed, because she is dead. No second chances here. No starting her life over after all. She was murdered. And we wanted to understand why? Why someone not like him could be so enveloped into him that even murder won’t shake her out of it.
We even had a segment on Channel 7’s Out for Justice: Noemi Custodio
http://www.wsvn.com/features/a…..?autoStart
But you know although the guidelines for comments included that animated discussions of different points of view to be healthy and respected I really don’t see that happening without folks getting chased out of here. Nor did I see that this is a place where one can adequately learn about sociopaths, psychopaths, because animated disscussions and different points of views are simply not allowed, it’s more of just a venting place, but any other types of inquiry or explorations seems not to be much acknowledged, or respected or even tolerated.
Some of the other teachers stated although they are dealing with psychopaths daily but this isn’t a healthy place to go to ask questions or for any type of support unless you are romantically involved in one. And I guess I realize that very well now.
White Chalk Crimes: http://www.whitechalkcrime.com/php/Comments.html
Organized Stages of Teacher Abuse: http://www.endteacherabuse.org/stages.html
Public School Administrators bully parents:
http://www.alongthespectrum.com/2007/07/bullying/
Teachers union says Broward officials blocked e-mails
http://www.miamiherald.com/1374/story/1284162.html?storylink=mirelated
Principal Accused Of Sexual Harassment Reassigned: http://cbs4.com/topstories/deerfield.beach.sexual.2.402674.html
Cluster of corruption cases may widen, some say:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/fl-corruption-probe-20100109,0,7345624.story
Broward schools ethics panel vows action on public’s complaints:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/broward/fl-school-ethics-panel-mtg-20100111,0,7720689.story
School Corruption: Betrayal of Children and the Public Trust
http://www.amazon.com/School-Corruption-Betrayal-Children-Public/dp/0595365574
Stopping School Corruption:
http://www.keepeanesinformed.com/pdf/Fusco%2520Study.pdf
Broward County School corruption: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/fl-wasserman-swamp-school-20100128,0,3130912.story
Broward School Board member fails to disclose husband’s role in $500,000 fee break:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/broward/corruption/sfl-prestige-kraft-schools-101909,0,5973144.story
PARENT GROUP FILES CIVIL RIGHTS COMPLAINTS AGAINST 64 FLORIDA SCHOOL DISTRICTS: http://m.naplesnews.com/news/2009/jun/02/collier-parent-group-files-complaints-against-64-f/
What’s Fueling the Redirection of Special Education Funds:
http://edmoney.newamerica.net/blogposts/2010/whats_fueling_the_redirection_of_special_education_funds-26213
Ethics panel set for first public hearing on school district:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/broward/fl-school-ethics-panel–20100109,0,1614300.story
End Teacher Abuse: http://www.endteacherabuse.org
Mike
The name of this site is “LOVEFRAUD”…while I have met many here who also had experiences with psychopaths, narcissists, personality disordered individuals, etc. that were platonic (business dealings, family members, friends,co-workers) and they were all received and very welcomed here…I would say the name of the site speaks for itself. Putting ALL the blame on the victim is, however, not welcomed here and I hope will always be addressed.
Autisticsouls said
“Nor did I see that this is a place where one can adequately learn about sociopaths, psychopaths, because animated disscussions and different points of views are simply not allowed, it’s more of just a venting place, but any other types of inquiry or explorations seems not to be much acknowledged, or respected or even tolerated.”
I respectfully disagree, as evidenced in the archives of a wide range of articles topics posts and discussions since Lovefrauds inception.
Mike,
Im sorry for your loss and your families loss. Its a terrible tragedy. Nobodys life should be taken away ever.
Im a homemaker without a medical degree, but my instinct tells me that the answer to your question about the woman involved with a psychopathic murderer is simple. She is not well. She is unhealthy herself. She is imbalanced. There could be numerous reasons from chemical imbalance to an addiction to him to a history of dysfunctional upbringing to brainwashing to even personal choice as well as an array of possible psychiatric conditions according to scientific and or medical opinions. The answer lies within HER and HER only.
Debating , discussing the answer is a different story tho.
Again, this is my opinion only. Im sure there are many, many different opinions on the topic. As there always are many open diverse respectful and protective opinions here at LF.
Thank you for sharing yours.
LTL
I think this is one of those aftershocks of a visitation either by a sociopath or someone who is not here to work on personal healing. Nicolaid’s comments were very provacative (euphemism for being likely to trigger people who were healing from personal relationships with sociopaths).
Yes, LoveFraud is an educational site. But the reason that most of us are here is to work on our personal healing from these relationships. Learning about sociopaths is part of that process. So is responding to a threat to the safety of this space.
autisticsouls, please forgive me for the comments I’m about to make, but I need to explain you a bit. Mike is autistic, and he is highly rational, but his perceptiveness is different than ours. He explained himself (and his wife gave us more information in her earlier posts under the same name). So unless he’s directly attacked, he’s unlikely to be triggered by a new visitor, like some of us are. And if the visitor arrives making generalizations, however unfeeling we may find them, Mike is more like to debate facts. As some of you may remember, this is what he did with a previous visitor who was making some equally provocative pronouncements.
Mike, we do vent, but it’s not “just venting.” People here are going through an emotional process of healing. That venting serves a purpose in the sharing of experiences, getting validation for our own realities (which are pretty shaky at the beginning), and moving through the process of recovering our ability to trust and take care of ourselves.
Workplace engagements with sociopaths belong here as much as any other long-term involvement. The damage is the same, the psychic destablization (traumatic response) is the same.
But you’re right, this is probably not a forum for debate. Largely because it is so personal. And people are really raw. We have disagreements, but they tend to be handled very carefully. And if they’re not, if we are too blunt with each other, the person we’re dealing with may “hear” it through their wounds, rather than with an objective perspective, and be wounded again.
I realize this doesn’t address all your issues, or provide solutions for them. But I hope it does reassure you that there’s nothing personal going on, not toward you. Unless you start making general criticisms of what goes on here, and then, of course, you’re going to deal with people who disagree or take your criticisms personally.
If you want to work on your feelings about being victimized, and figure out how not to be victimized again, this is agreat place to do that.
Kathy
Thank you Kathy for explaining how perceptiveness may differ amongst us.
Mike – I actually appreciated your comments – everyone here is entitled to their own opinion – I especially appreciated your insights and opinions with regard to the educational system in this country.
I did not take your opinions and criticisms personally, I just really do believe this site welcomes and discusses so many different types of involvement and interactions with a sociopath on many different levels and in many different roles in society.
Sometimes it’s best to say nothing……..
Sorry for my deeelllleeete!
🙂