Those of us who have been psychologically abused by sociopaths—whether we’re male or female, and whether the abuser is male or female—know that the abuse should be criminal. It appears that in France, it just may happen.
A Lovefraud reader sent me a link to an interesting story in Time Magazine. Legislators from France’s ruling party are expected to introduce a bill that would outlaw “conjugal abuse of a psychological nature” in both married and unmarried relationships.
According to Time,
The legislation seeks to target the verbal and mental denigration, humiliation and manipulation that typically lead to physical abuse. The hope is that the bill will help prevent the emotional wounds that words often cause before a punch is ever thrown.
I hope the law gets passed. I hope it works. We’ll have to see what happens.
Read the article on Time.com:
Hi Witty, how are you today?
best,
one step
autisticsouls,
Although many of the people here on LF do have the common denominator of having experienced a romantic relationship with an s/p/n, there are others here, that do come for different reasons.
I myself first came here because of my son. By the time I found LF I was really at my witsend. I had tried finding my son help in my community and wasn’t very succesful. I was very emotional and pretty “raw”.
When I was a newbie here……
Several posters posted around me, because they didn’t necessarily relate to my situation, some welcomed me, some posted directly to me that could relate to my situation, and some I think unintentionally underestimated the situation I was in. Thinking maybe I just had a case of a defiant teenager on my hands. By the time I found myself here I already knew that it was more than that. I didn’t know to the full extent what I was dealing with but I did know that it was not your average “acting out” teenager. It went alot deeper than that.
I took it all in. When I first came here. Because quite frankly, I had no place else to go. And there were a few mothers here that offered validation and their own personal stories that I could definately relate to. I have learned alot here. And much of it was learned not just from the posters that had been through exactly what I was going through, but from other personal experiences as well. Everyone here has alot to share.
I found I could relate very well to the romanic experience of being with a personality disorder because that was also my experience with my sons father.
Each of us can relate to each others storys on different levels because of our own personal experience.
The workplace, the romantic relationship, family of origin, extended family. Regardless of the relationship had with an s/p/n…..It affects us. All of us.
I hope you continue to come here. Your persective is welcome here. I have always read your post. You have alot of wisdom.
One Step,
I am hangin in there….Going through a rough patch right now.
I have lots of fears and anxiety. Some really emotional stuff.
thanks for askin 🙂
How are you doing? Did you ever find out what happened to your article?
Hi witty – sending you my best wishes.
Rough patch here, too. Not well. the enviro sensitivities have escalated like crazy, and i am really struggling.
No, I don’t know what happened to my article. I emailed Donna on Monday, but haven’t heard anything back.
best,
one step
Mike says
“way too many of us have seen children affected, children damaged by their psychopathic parent(s).. ” theres no bruises to report, nothing really concrete to actually have to call CPS about but enough to know the child(ren) is(are) being damaged. We are with them all day, day in and out, we see and can do nothing but wait until the victimized parents decide enough is enough for her, but by then, too often the children have lost their childhood.”
Mike – The child you refer to above….I am that “child” all grown up. Dare I take the liberty of saying a good percentage of us here (but not all) are those children all grown up. Not only at the hands of a psychopathic parent, but perhaps a personality disordered parent, or narcissist, or mentally ill, or an alcoholic, or depressed etc..
As a result, I did not have the most responsible and present parents walking the planet. My mother was bi-polar schizophrenic. My father eventually got custody of us, but he was a workaholic and the nurturing I received primarily came from my grandmother.
How did I turn out??? Well Im doing ok, I think. Yes, after quite the journey Im doing ok. Im not an alchoholic, I dont do drugs, Im a contributing member to society and was in the workforce up until my son was diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes. Am I perfect ? No way, no how.. Did I make bad choices with relationships in my life…sometimes no…sometimes yes. Was I particularly needy for love affection attention validation honesty in a relationship – yes. Did I lose myself in my relationship with a very toxic person in my life – YES. But not completely, something in me gave me the strength to say NO MORE – I wanted healthier situations and relationships in my life.
You said “we need our victimized parent to stand up and protect their kids as we watch to many times the parent cry victim”
Speaking for myself – I initially cried victim – and as I went through the process of self-actualization and learning self-love and self-trust and self-worth as that grown up child — I eventually took some responsibility for the choices I made after realizing I was being emotionally and mentally used and abused. Although today I believe I was terriby used abused exploited and victimized by him. What I did was lose my own grounding…as that full grown child – now adult, I lost my sense of self and direction. But boy oh boy did I ever reclaim it and find it. I did not have the tools to deal with this toxic person in my life. I couldnt stand up and protect myself and sadly barely able to do so for my own children back then. I gave love and the basics to them – but almost as if I was going through the motions —
I need to reflect more about being that child you refer to …all grown up now. And how it has affected my life. In some ways in the most unbelievably strong and resilient ways in other aspects of my life it has caused me some toxicity as I try to learn to be the best I can be to myself and in my relationships with others.
None of us are perfect. And every generation carries the burden of the previous generation(s) to a certain extent. Some much less than others – as they were afforded a more balanced childhood. Some much more than others as they were raised in severely dysfunctional situations. And there are some who genetically may be pre-disposed to all the many different personality disorders we discuss here. Nature v nurture…
I never “CHOSE” A PSYCHOPATHIC TOXIC DYSFUNCTIONAL PARTNER/LOVER TEACHER PREACHER BOSS FRIEND OR PARENT… but what I can do now is protect myself with the tools I have learned HERE AT LF…AND IN READING BOOKS.. and EDUCATING MYSELF AND LEARN AND GROW TO BE THE BEST ME I CAN BE.
Nobody could have ever gotten me to a better place – had I not wanted to. But I credit my desire to get to a better place to the ones who opened their heart and guidance and advice to me — who tried to understand me — and who let me know it was ok to be myself and go through whatever I needed to at the time. They didnt placate me and tell me things I only wanted to hear. They told me of their experiences and shed light on how they overcame “sleeping with the devil” in all areas of their life.
I just ask that you dont minimize the emotional damage that is done to the victim/adult child – when the partner you choose to have in your life – tries to control you, manipulate you, twist your mind – lies – cheats and attacks your spirit – and because some of us didnt have the tools to recognize or deal with it — we temporarily lost our way. You are very fortunate your wife is the person she is. Its not just about having someone in your bed – it was the choice of a life partner — in our life everyday, in every way. You can leave work and go home to a healthy situation. You can leave school, etc… and do the same. Many of us here had severe levels of toxicity in our lives 24/7 with a toxic, sick, psychopathic, drunk, drug addicted, emotionally and physically abusive partner. ( i def havent covered it all)
Kathy has written about the “inner child” inside of us. While it might lend insight to the victimized parent as well as the toxic parent — it really speaks volumes about ALL of us not only struggling and failing and lost but more importantly sheds light on healing our inner child and growing learning maturing on earth. And CHOOSING to do so. Not just point fingers and place blame when there is no immediate resolution or answer to the problems.
At least we all share the same common goal –the belief and feeling that the psychopath (as well as many other personality-disorders) is a great problem in society and working together is the only way to defeat them, hopefully we can manage to do that together someday especially here on LF.
Thank you Mike for your input.
ps. I dont have the answer as to how to bring awareness to the ones who need it, deserve it. Or how to protect the children. The innocent children. My goal was to start somewhere and educate the children who are in highschool/college about the red flags – and dangers of toxic people/relationships. So they have the tools – I did not have as a young adult in my 30’s.
One step,
I just found 10 blog posts in the trash, and I have no idea how they got there. Yours was one of them. I have just restored the articles.
Thanks for letting me know Donna.
best,
one step
Oh learnthelesson, there is so much pain in your post, i keep envisioning your childhood, my overactive imagination you just take me there. i tell Mary, she’s a hard old goose, (her words in describing herself)but she means well, I tell her that the parents were children once, with unhealed injuries, and our kids today will someday grow up and how important it is to ‘save the family’ unit.
Most of all being how it is, whether it’s their personality make up or their upbringing or a mixture of both many of our kids today will be future targets for psychopaths tomorrow.
We have this over-excitabilities theory in some of our kids, they are way sensitive to things, with my autism I can turn things off easy, it’s like two different arenas. i have to access my emotional database, it’s like a conscious willful decision to do so. like reading your post i have to open up that part of me.
But these kids their hearts are on their sleeves. i get so protective of them because it’s like they have no defense mechanism.
it’s funny because with the people here in their posts i ‘see’ our kids in them sometimes. they may be adults but they can sound like our kids in so many ways it almost doesn’t matter how old they ‘actually’ are at times.
It’s comes to our theory that there are certain personalities that psychopaths will target. Some kids as they get older they change some but some of our kids if they have their heart on their sleeves they tend to keep that quality about them. Always.
like two kids, one who has given up on his dad visiting and just hardens himself up from that. He is going to be harder to access by a psychopath in the future, but the other kid who still, no matter what has happened, in spite of all logic, in spite of all evidence procured, still says something like: “Someday daddy is going to come and we are all going to live in disneyland.”
Two different kids one does not even bother to wait because he gave up on his dad already and wasn’t going to bother anymore, and the other who will still be waiting outside three hours later. that kid. that kid is the future psychpath target, that ‘still hoping for a better tomorow’ kid, that sensitive kid still ‘hanging on a dream’, that kid is our future psychopath target in relationships.
you can’t take advantage of a person who has no real hopes or dreams that things can be better. It’s those that hope and dream for something better that is still so easy to ensnare. Because they still have that childlike trust. That childlike openness to them. That will never really disappear!!!
It sucks because it’s these imaginative idealistic sensitive individuals that are the dreamers of our future and society. They are the heart of humanity. But it’s their openness that nearly kills them. point is it’s almost always ‘nearly’ kills them but i don’t beleive anything can really kill that child in you.
Children have that ability to heal faster than adults, to bounce back, to keep going. These days we are seeing an epidemic of ‘adults’ in children, but we still see just as much so ‘the child’s heart’ in children AND adults.
Mary had an experince lately that explains it so well. she met two of her former students. The boy was unrecognizable. the boy she once knew was gone forever she said. But his sister, this was what got her. 23 years old and it didn’t matter at all. The child she once knew. That child was still there. Somehow no matter how broken she seemed or what she had gone through or what had occured in her life that little girl she knew was still there.
you know how it’s so easy to pick up a new language as a kid but really hard as an adult? well we’ve gone through some conferences, but with some OE or HSP people, (most really), that childlike quality of being accessable to learn new things is still there. that childlike quality seems to not ever get lost in some folks, in some personalities.
look we have been reading posts of you guys WHICH IS PROVING THE THEORY!!!!!
Almost all of you, what you post, how you post, what you say and feel, has an utter childlike quality to it. doesn’t matter how old so many of you actually are. i think it bothers Mary most of all because she doesn’t want to see her kids in you guys. but she had to admit it’s true, there is an openness and childlike innocence and ‘dreams for a better tomorrow’ that can never be lost in some individuals no matter how old they are or what they have gone through.
The ability to learn to adapt to forge new paths are always going to be there for some people.
Some people grow up and they settle into a certain way they are going to be, or how things are, and that’s it.
But people with this childlike quality can always change because they are always going to have that ability to grow. Wanna learn new language? Just joking but that’s what I mean. That extended childhood way of experinencing the world is also a resilience factor.
It’s a double edged sword though because an adult with a child’s heart is always going to be targeted by someone who will and can prey on their hopes and dreams, ‘because’ they still have them!!!
Dabrowski’s Theory: “…Development potential
Advanced development is often seen in people who exhibit strong developmental potential (“DP”). Developmental potential represents a constellation of genetic features, expressed and mediated through environmental interaction. Many factors are incorporated in developmental potential but three major aspects are highlighted: overexcitability (OE), specific abilities and talents, and a strong drive toward autonomous growth, a feature DÄ…browski called the “third factor.”….”
Love and hugs
Mike
Hello Witty – Learn – I came here because of my intimate relationship with what I think was a cluster – B – Sociopath. I came here out of sheer desperation to hang on to my sanity. I was grasping for straws to survive. What I learned was much more than about him but myself and my mentally disturbed narcissict mother. I learned alot about personality disorders and how they effect people around them. Most of us come here because of being duped by a love interest but learn more than we are sometimes prepared for. I think it is a crash course in reality and survival. It has been a gut wrenching emotional experience. And the emotional compassion of others that relate and understand that kind of life lived pain have lifted me out of despair. How fortunate for other’s that they dont relate on that same level of experience.
Mike, You just posted while I was writing, And I’m not sure if what I have to say is really relevant. But it’s what I believe, and I believe it passionately, So I’m going to go ahead and post it. To a large degree it echoes what you and LTL have been discussing.
I think that the first and most important challenge is to sort out ourselves. This is not just a matter of personal healing. It is also the process of untangling ourselves from all the dysfunctional dramas that make us feel like victims, so we can see more, get more perceptive about what is going on, and understand how to penetrate what seems impenetrable when we still feel like disempowered victims.
I think this is the only hope we have to change things. Individually and together.
I realize that doesn’t sound very helpful in relationship to the information you’ve been posting about the teachers, the children, the parents, all of whom are either victims or persecutors or rescuer/caretakers. But here is the thing: damaged people don’t exist in a vacuum Damaged parents damage their children. People who feel like victims leave messes for other people to clean up, because they are not able to handle responsibilities. A festival of blaming occurs because making other people bad is all we can handle, when our compassion is exhausted. But it doesn’t mean that everyone doesn’t have their story.
And not one of us can fix it all. But we can get clear with ourselves, know who we are and what we believe in and how we want it to come out. Get finished with our past, and start creating the future we want one step at at at time, whatever step we can take without falling off the edge of the world. We can transform our anger into commitment and judge the world by what helps and what hinders, and then start working to clear the obstacles.
No one can do everything. People who work in the kind of environment you work in, and who see the kind of things you see, have to learn to live with their own capacity. If you do what’s in front of you well, you will also see what more you can do. You grow in capacity by small increments, learning what you can accomplish, one step at a time. Doing what is possible, keeping the vision of how you’d like it to be, but doing what is possible. And learning how to make more changes as your sense of the possible expands.
I understand the anger and frustration of you and your friends. I can feel it through your words, and you’ve talked about the reasons. But figuring out what is in your power is a lot more effective than shaking your fist at monolithic systems. Every time you exert your power to make the situation better, even in small ways, you are changing things. And every time you do that, you learn more about what can be changed and what you’re capable of.
Anger is good for understanding the problems. And seeing what needs to be done. And finding the motivation to do it. But when you really don’t want to be a victim anymore, you get smart about it. You pick your fights. You manage your resources. You may find yourself disappointed, but you don’t stay mad for long, because you’re wasting energy by stewing.
This, in the end, is why each of us get well. To empower ourselves to create the lives and the world we want. Not tilting at windmills, but doing it one step at a time, as we are able, as the opportunities present themselves.
You and your friends are passionate about this. Sometimes we need to fight. But more often, we need to make things better. And in bringing light to a situation, we push the darkness back.
I hope you find those opportunities. You are a smart and caring man. There is no way to tell what you and your friends might accomplish, if you just start with the small things that are right in front of you.
If you haven’t read “The Starfish and the Spider” yet, you really should. It might give you some ideas.
Kathy