Those of us who have been psychologically abused by sociopaths—whether we’re male or female, and whether the abuser is male or female—know that the abuse should be criminal. It appears that in France, it just may happen.
A Lovefraud reader sent me a link to an interesting story in Time Magazine. Legislators from France’s ruling party are expected to introduce a bill that would outlaw “conjugal abuse of a psychological nature” in both married and unmarried relationships.
According to Time,
The legislation seeks to target the verbal and mental denigration, humiliation and manipulation that typically lead to physical abuse. The hope is that the bill will help prevent the emotional wounds that words often cause before a punch is ever thrown.
I hope the law gets passed. I hope it works. We’ll have to see what happens.
Read the article on Time.com:
Gem, I also cried when I read your story, and can sooo identify with all of u- Erin, Wits- Your stories resonant with me unbelievable. I too was the kind of mom who worked hard to give my son everything, not just material things, but full commitment- blood, sweat, and tears. We all have. Erin- how strange- my son also blames alot of the reason he wasnt a pro circuit motorcross”star” on me. We purchased bike after bike, sacrificing alot to make sure he had all the gear, etc. Now he says that I jinxed every race when I was there- he liked it better when I wasnt around- but I NEVER SUPPORTED him- according to him. To hear him state all of his percieved injustices that he “endured” with me as his mom, I think WHERE is this coming from??? BOTTOM LINE-His reality is false- He is cunning enuf to make you doubt your OWN MIND, and the “smear campaign” to anyone listening of me would make them “believe” my son’s delusional stories.(If you know the movie about Eminem-the rapper,growing up in a ghetto, thats how my son portrays HIS middle class, “cushy” life- utterly ridiculous!
After he got out of jail, he comes over the other nite, to pick up some of his things. It was just eerie how he looked as tho “nobody was home”, he looks like crap (once a good looking kid who cared), but from behind those eyes, theres no glimmer that anyone has residence there.
I CAN”T get that look out of my head! I cried when he left. I couldnt resist but to send some chili that I had made, and fruit with him. He claimed he didnt get the letter I wrote him, as predicted, so I gave him a copy that I had made in case he didnt get in while in jail. This letter had lots of bible scripture I felt compelled to give him. I still try to “break thru” its really sad.
EB – i would never take as much as you gave, but i could have used you as a mom.
in fact, i could use you now.
hugs.
one step
Dear E B,
As you know from my two years+ of blogging here, I well know how it is to have a son/child turn on you, disrespect and abuse you. All teenagers are “monsters” and egocentric to one degree or another I think, but some of them get over it and some get worse (the disordered ones).
“Tough love” is the only way it can be handled, I think, but sometimes even that doesn’t work, (Witsend’s example) and you get caught between a rock and a hard place, unable to have any control or to exercise any consequences without putting literally your life in jeopardy. Remember Witsends boy threatening to burn her house down if she crossed him.
It is about CONTROL, not the normal “independence,” that they practice. Consequences so not matter to them. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that they are RUINING their lives and throwing away opportunities for education and a good life, but they are only interested in CONTROL over you, not “independence” of choices. BIG differences in the two.
As our kids get older we have to let them make more and more choices so that by the time they are legally “independent” they can make wiser choices out in the world, but if they refuse to allow us to do this without major “screw ups” like legal problems, thefts etc. there isn’t much we can really DO.
Just like Witty said, everyone said to her “just MAKE HIM” take his medication? How? At gun point? He’s 16-17 yrs old for goodness sakes and how is she to FORCE him to do anything? You can force a 2 year old to sit in a chair if you have to hold him while he kicks and screams, and maybe a 5-6 year old, but that’s about all the “force” you can exert and even then, not when you are not there physically. If a kid is unwilling to abide by the rules and doesn’t dread the consequences then there is nothing you can do to stop them from doing whatever it is that they are doing that you deem “bad.”
I kept up the denial and the fantasy that there was some “magic words” I could say and he would see what he was doing to his life, how he would go to jail and lose all hope of a good life. NOPE! NOT there, there ARE NO magic words. If a “carrot” won’t motivate them and a “stick” won’t deter them, you are SOL completely and that is what the situation with a young P is like. I think the sooner we realize that and let them go on their independent way and stop trying to save them from themselves the better off we are.
I applaud you in deciding to give your son whatever money he has coming and send him on his way—and change the locks—I wish I had done that with both my biological sons, even though my oldest biological son is not a psychopath, he has some “problems” that I tried to “help him” with and I realize now I just ENABLED him. He’s on his own now, and I realize part of his problem is that I kept the extreme consequences for his bad choices from hitting him in the face as they should have….I over looked them, pretended they had not happened, etc. mitigated the consequences…..and I should not have done that.
As for the “talent” show, let him do it and get the consequences whatever they are. Let him spread his wings and get knocked down, might do him some good. My heart goes out to all of us here who have children with “problems” whether they are psychopathically disordered or just “teenagers” seeking independence. It’s a hard job raising kids.
I so want to believe he’s ‘just’ a teenager doing ‘normal’ teenage independance….
But on the other hand…. I know better too!
He’s not out stealing, drinking, drugs (I think, although I am NOT naive…too)…..but he’s home, socializes with the rest of us and hangs around…..he attends all the youth groups 3x a week…..he’s just a misfit…..hanging with other misfit kids in a small town…..
They are misfits because they don’t have one or other parent in their lives, they don’t dress or go along with the jajority of cool kids clothing styles….for money reasons….and they go to church youth groups…..
But….my kid is learning about being a christian as he judges me constantly and calls me a c*nt? Not helping the houselhold etc…. WTF is that……I call that a safe place to be accepted, and a social life…..but nothing he is really interested in or is ‘living’. It’s a fake front for him?
Today I woke up pissed again….he is late for school EVERYDAY!! EVERY DAY!!!!! By at least 20-45 minutes…..
He knows what time it starts….but he misses the ride…..then I have to take him because that is the deal I made with the school……Just get him there……
SO it IS control over me…..that’s it.
But today…..I stayed up all night working, because I have been too frazled to get this shit done and it needed getting done and I am not disturbed in the middle of night……so I pulled an all nighter…..at 4:30 I am ready to hit the sack and I thought…..No I will wait until 6:30 to wake kids up and make sure all are up…..this is what I did……Hes’ up…..and I stated, Okay can you all get yourselves off today….I packed lunches etc…yeah, yeah mom..no worries…….I go to bed, am just falling back to sleep and at 8:30 I get a call….From him….Mom….can you take me to school….I fell back asleep…..
I WAS PISSED……If I knew he was going to be late, I would have gone to sleep at 4″30 and got some rest myslef!!!
I will also say he’s famous for starting the shower to ‘warm’ it up….and going back to sleep……steaming up his room and bathroom until literally the paint peels off the walls….
WTF>>>>>WHO”S PAYING THE WATER BILL??????
He’s also famous for NOT going to bed at a reasonable hour….HENCE NOT WAKING UP……
He refuses to believe this is the reason!!!! REFUSES!!!
again…control….
Your right oxy…..I just so want to believe he will ‘see the light’…..and what is frustrating to me is……he’s coming to the end of the tunnel and I”M GONNA HAVE TO BE THAT TRAIN THAT HITS HIM!!!! and pushes him out!
I DON”T WANT TO DO THAT!!!!! But I will have to!
3 months 18 days and counting……
Those are gonna be HIS magic words!
As for the talent show……he was asked to stop and ivited to be on stage crew…..
Ofcourse, not because he sucked…….but becasue it was the guitars fault!!!
I’ve got to be ‘ready’ to let him go…..or push him out and onto the tracks of life……
I’m doing him no good!
EB,
This is called by the therapists “disordered thinking.” I know because I’ve been through so many diagnostic procedures with my son. Who I don’t talk about here very much, because I’m not exactly in the same situation as others of you describe.
But in dealing with this, I have decided one thing. As stressful and frustrating and draining as it is, my job is to keep my own head straight and to take care of myself. It doesn’t mean that I lose my compassion, or forget to stay aware that I may be able to help with his issues, but I live for myself first.
Sometimes that has meant simply backing away. I’ve stopped talking to him for long period of time. If he starts something, I tell him how it looks to me. But I don’t get involved with trying to change him or fix him, if he’s not open to it.
I don’t offer him things, including help with finding help, unless he get miserable enough to come to me and ask for help. I don’t give him my opinion of his life or what he needs to do. And I don’t look for anything from him, except telling him him when he’s not fulfilling some commitment he made, and how I feel about that. And telling him what I want from him, when I want something. (Whether I get it is up to him, and I just deliver the information and walk away.) I arrange my life so I am not dependent on him.
In other words, I make my reality the wall he has to get through if he wants to deal with me.
People have their own realities, disordered or not. We can’t inject our realities into their heads. The only power we have is to hold firm in ourselves. And if we are dealing with someone we cannot communicate with or find common ground with, we also need to pay attention to our own safety and what this is costing us. And be prepared to cut the cord, drop the iron curtain, or whatever you want to call it.
I really believe that it’s pointless to maintain assumptions of mutual caring and support with someone who isn’t doing their side of the mutuality. When it comes to our children, it’s really difficult to get ourselves out of the idea that we’re the parents, and maybe if we just add a little more affection or generosity, or or maybe if we try to teach them a little harder about the repercussions of their actions, or try to find the silver bullet, whatever it is, that we’ll be able to recover the child we once knew.
When they hit the late teens or young adulthood, they’re making the decision about how their going to act and how they’re going to view life. And I think the best favor we can give them is honesty about how we feel and how this is affecting us, and then a withdrawal of support for behaviors that are selfish, self-destructive and damaging to us and the rest of the family. And that includes playing along with their assumptions that they can be abusive and selfish and still get all the “goodies” that go along with being a valued participant in household or family life.
I’ve got a disordered and depressed son on my hands. I can’t throw him out, because he’s incapable of taking care of himself. But I can control his access to me, decide how his behavior is going to affect my life, not participate in his ideas of what is wrong with me, and do whatever I can to replenish myself from the stresses of dealing with him.
It doesn’t mean that I’ve cut him out of my life, though he lives in my house. Quite the contrary. I engage with him as much as I can, when the interactions are good. Enjoyable, useful, meaningful. Positive feedback is as important as negative. But I am constantly conscious of my boundaries. How I feel about what’s going on. Whether it promotes something I want to promote, or the opposite. And in particular, if there is anything happening that undermines my mental health, my physical health and my ability to run my life for my own best interests.
I sometimes wish I had been like this earlier. It’s hard to know whether it would have changed anything now. But I know that, as a parent, I was reactive to my own background. Endlessly concerned about his feelings and afraid of him being beaten down in the same ways that I was. And as a result, I’ve had to do some work on convincing him that I expect respect as a separate human being, just as he does. And that respect is earned by behavior.
I am still trying to get the right kind of help for him. And the truth is that it is draining. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night so angry that I have to go through all the tricks I know to calm myself down so I can sleep again.
But every relationship, especially challenging relationships, is a learning experience. I still have hope that this situation is going to come out well. Maybe not what I hoped for him, but I think, with help, he can find out how to manage himself and build a place for himself in the world. And I think it’s possible, with help, that we can find a shared understanding that is not so fraught with anger and despair.
But if that’s not true, I don’t intend to be sacrifice my life. I didn’t come this far for that. I sometimes think he is the big test after recovery from the sociopath. Can I hold onto myself, have compassion, and also save my own life. Is it possible to love and have boundaries? Is it possible to let other people be themselves, no matter how disordered they are or depressed or needy, and make it not about me. Or if I decide to care, make it not beyond what I can do without harming myself.
It’s a tightrope walk. Being the parent makes it the most challenging thing I can imagine. But the one thing I am pretty certain about these days is that I need to stop interfering, stop giving advice, stop “helping” unless I’m clearly asked and they clearly want something I can do. And something I want to do, because I am not the only resource in the world. They are going to change, and they are going to invest in what will help them change when they’re ready.
It’s hard to watch. It’s hard to stop treating them in the way we did when they were younger, and they were really our responsibilities and their treatment of us also reflected their desire to get along with us. But I don’t think we do them any favors by pretending it’s like it used to be. I think we do them a lot more good by treating them the way we would treat anyone else who behaves this way.
I love my son. I love him enough to do this.
Well today I am crying for all us moms….Sabrina, Gem, Oxy, Erin.
Erin I can tell you that I am a thinker by nature. I am one of those people that have to understand things to the best of my ability, in order to deal with them.
And never have I been so consumed in my thoughts as I have over the past two years. Some days I don’t even function well and get stuff done that I am supposed to. This has brought me to my knees. These years have been tough.
Awile back it occured to me that I can relate so well to everything about a cluster B because I was also married to one. For years I had excused/overlooked/misunderstood the relationship that I had with my husband. I had been raised in an alcoholic environment, been married previously to an alcoholic, and just thought that this particular addict was really, really sick. He was sick but it wasn’t just addictive behavior. He was classic, cluster B. I haven’t even been able to process all of this….My past with him….Because of my present situation with my son.
HOWEVER even when this became clear to me, about my husband it certainly didn’t shed any light on what exactly was happening with my son right before my eyes.
That is the thing Erin….Even though you have been through this before with your husband….And you understand alot about this disorder, it is DIFFERENT when you experience it with a child.
Its hard to define but I would say that the first difference is that it is manifesting, GROWING, right before your eyes. I once asked a question here when I first started posting. And my question was something like. Is this disorder grooming him as it manifest within him, or is he grooming the disorder? I STILL don’t know the answer to the question?
And as you “see” the “troubling traits” and behaviors presenting themselves on a daily basis, you do what a mother does…You try to curb them, to teach them, to REACH them, to turn them around. Like you would with any teenager. Because any teenager can be difficult. BUT there is a MAJOR difference. The difference is that darkness. The feeling “that no one is home” in there, when your trying to reach them. That deep dark hatred/anger that lies beneath the surface. And when you catch a glimpse of this it takes your breath away. Because YOU KNOW that you have done nothing deserving of that kind of hatred/anger. You know that you were loving and a good mother. You know that your child was raised with love and nurturing and you wonder WHERE THE HELL this darkness comes from? HOW could this even exist in them?
Alot of teenagers are angry. This initself is not the end of the world.
But I am talking about a “total package” here. Once you see the total package you know that this isn’t just your average defiant, angry, teenager stage that your dealing with.
Because that is the one thing that you usually DO see when you are raising a teenager. Even during a troubling “stage” you see the light at the end of the tunnel. You KNOW that this to shall pass.
This is what I believe and I believe it with my heart and soul.
1) No matter how DISTORTED their reality is. If they SAY they are graduating with their class. THEY BELIEVE THIS.
If they say that you didn’t SUPPORT them in something. They BELIEVE you didn’t support them. If they say you are a terrible mother, they BELIEVE you are a terrible mother.
Their REALITY is what they PERCIEVE it to be. And they LIVE in that distorted reality. That perception. It is REAL to them.
2) Consequences even good consequences do NOT teach them anything. They do not “learn the lesson” from a consequence.
Faulty wiring in the brain. Call it what you will. But if A & B = C, for a consequence, it doesn’t register. If it is a bad consequence they are ANGRY and feel blindsided, or that consequence was undeserved.
If the consequence was a positive one it registers as they were ENTITLED to this any way. NOT that the good behavior or whatever = the end result. (good consequence)
So to use an easy example here: When my son FLUNKS in school. He doesn’t grasp any of the REALITY of the situation. He doesn’t OWN any of it. He flunked because he set himself UP to flunk. He didn’t turn in ANY of the work. These are the facts.
But he sees it as he was robbed. He didn’t have a chance. The teachers were against him. No matter what he did he couldn’t pass.
As DISTORTED as this is. This is what HE believes to be the facts.
So the reality is that he flunks. But he doesn’t ACCEPT that as reality. So it isn’t REAL. (to him)
3) He doesn’t feel the love, or concern, or compassion, or nurturing, NOTHING.
Not only is he not able to give love, he is UNABLE to RECIEVE it.
This is the hardest thing of all for me to understand. And it is the most heart breaking of all. No matter what you try to do for them it is never enough. Nothing is GOOD enough. Nothing works.
4) They don’t seem to have the capacity to understand that you do LIVE in reality, along with the rest of the world.
Maybe this is part of the disorder and how it is progressing in this im-mature stage….
But I would swear to it, that when my son first started lying compulsively, he was VERY angry that I didn’t believe his lies. Or anyone who didn’t believe him for that matter. If he SAID it, he EXPECTED you to believe it.
5) He has a distorted sense of control. And power. And he percieves money as power, and he percieves that he has control over everyone. The school, the teachers, the administration, myself, the family he is living with now, the cops in town. Everyone. The reason he percieves that he has control over people is that simply put, he thinks he has.
He couldn’t “conform” to regular classes, so the school devised a program specially for him. (no regular classes) All E lab classes. (computer)
He couldn’t conform to living at home, so the law allowed him to leave at 17, the family opened their doors to him and he left.
Now he is having trouble to adapt to their rules so the law AGAIN provides him “back up” to move back home.
It goes on and on. But in HIS eyes he doesn’t HAVE to conform to the WORLD, the world WILL conform to him. And so each time he gets that confimed to him, in his own distorted sense of hiow he percieves things, he FEELS THIS POWER & CONTROL.
It is very hard to STAY grounded when you live with this on a daily basis.
The easiest way to understand this that I have found is……
Somewhere during the developmental years they didn’t progress normally. This was arrested.
It would be like a 17 year old body going through life but a MUCH younger childlike brain function. It never developed beyond a certain point.
When a baby is 2 years old you try to TEACH them right from wrong in their little worlds. Not to grab the toy out of thier playmates hands. BUT, and it is a big but…..This is NORMAL for a two year old NOT to fully understand to not grab the toy because they want the toy.
When you are trying to teach a 17 yr old NOT to do something, but your 17 year old only has the brain capacity of a two year old (or whatever age) it is a different story altogether. They are LACKING at this point the capacity to understand what you are trying to teach them. They will take what they want. They don’t have within them the compassion for another. They don’t have the concept of A & B = C.
It is alot to absorb for a mother. It is alot to process and accept. It is heart breaking.
Erin I know this is difficult, but in your situation you do have something to focus on that is VERY important. I wish in a way that I had younger children.
You have younger kids. You have to think of the damage he could be doing. Because you are raising them all in the same household…..If they see how he does “his thing” regardless of the consequences, you don’t want your other kids to pick up on that. All that chaos & crazymaking behavior.
So if it comes down to forcing him out at 18 years old, as difficult as that might be, it might be the best thing for your other children.
I am in that rock and a hard place right now because of my sons age. But when he turns of age, I hope to be able and ready to let him go. Because I have accepted ONE thing.
In all my attempts, I have been UNABLE to help him or reach him on any level. If anything, I am the source of his hatred and anger. And my presence in his life seems to fuel that anger.
I don’t understand this hatred and anger and I most likely never will. But it is what it is. That much I can see. And I have seen enough of it, to know that it is REAL. That it IS my reality.
I listened to a radio interview with a French minister discussing this a couple of weeks, its sounds like those trying to get it passed as legislation understand the complexity of trying to prove cases of psychological abuse (and from what I gather the intention is that it would have broader scope than martial abuse alone) and are quite aware of the difficulties they face in trying to pass such legislation. BUT that the issue is out there, being discussed in such a forum, and subsequently internationally, and officially being recognized is fantastic. If nothing else It may be a good start:)x
Love to you all amazing LFers.x
Erin,
Also, you know what you know. Your instincts, your gut and your perception of what is going on with your son is what you have to go by….
It is VERY possible that your son is just an angry, defiant teenager that HATES school. And once he is out of school he will muddle through and find his way in life. NOT what you wish for your kids to start life without an education. BUT still very do-able. He can always go back and get a GED.
If you still see him as “reachable” than that is a very GOOD sign. If you still have more moments than not, that he is teachable, then he is.
Teenagers are self centered at best. They can be challenging and draining. They make us DIG DEEPER within ourselves to effectively parent them.
With my son there came a time when I didn’t just FEAR for him, (because of what I saw) I started to have FEAR OF him. That was the defining “light bulb” moment for me.
Teenagers bring alot of different emotions out in us. And their is nothing like having a teenager around the house to push all your buttons. Because they can do that.
But I DREW the line at having fear of him THAT is not normal.
That is when I came out of my denial stage. I peeked my head out of the fog he had created all around me and realized that I had to face this. I couldn’t “stuff” this particular feeling.
I could continue to face my other conflicted feelings and reactions to everything he was doing. And try to sort the conflicting emotions out.
But I couldn’t “sort out” the fear of him.
lightsaber,
Thank you for your kind post to me the other day. (sunday? I think) I did see it and was unable to respond at the time.
witsend wrote: “With my son there came a time when I didn’t just FEAR for him, (because of what I saw) I started to have FEAR OF him. That was the defining “light bulb” moment for me.”
Yes, me too. That’s when I realize I had to chance how I thought about this.