By | June 19, 2010 67 Comments

From Reality Show Central: Desperate Meth-lab Operators of Some Special County

Editor’s note: Here is the first of the satirical pieces by the Front Porch Talker. For background, see “My life with a sociopath,” posted yesterday. The name of the county has been changed.

By The Front Porch Talker  (A.K.A. Professor Smarty-pants)

Well, I guess you have to use that word: desperate.  After all, this is a Reality Show, right?  And, I am a ”˜desperate Meth-lab operator’ who is from Some Special County, Washington. We are filming on-location from inside of my Meth-lab trailer, which is actually a double-wide—there’s a difference.  In my double-wide is where I actually operate my Meth-lab business. And, for all intents and purposes, I am an operator. It is all authentic and Reality Show Central, as far as I am concerned.

Except for one small detail:  I do have a problem with that word, ”˜desperate.’  That is, for a Reality show, ”˜desperate’ fits the concept you are going for.  But, it doesn’t really fit for me. I am not a ”˜desperate’ anything. I’d prefer to call myself a highly-trained professional who operates a business, in the home, as part of the drug sales private service sector, which just also happens to be “illegal.”

That is a far cry from “desperate meth-lab operator,’ right?  I would use the word: confident. As in, “Confident Meth-lab Operators,” but then why have a ”˜Reality Show’ at all, then?

I have full confidence that the drug operators like myself, in this rapidly growing industry, will eventually—I hope–be recognized and legalized  along with the other “so-called” Vice Trades that enjoy those rights. That way, we do not need to be desperate at all.  We could just be confident and rich, and, well, legal operators. Pardon me, but don’t we deserve this much, at least?  I know that this ”˜Reality Show’ is not some intellectual discussion about:  right or wrong; legal or illegal.  I’ll grant you that much.  But, a desperate operator I am not.

Desperate implies (or infers?) that I need this show for my self-esteem, which I don’t.

“You Don’t?”

No. I have been working at this profession for more years than I care to mention. I’ve had three husbands, two grown-kids, and even a grown grandchild whom I just adore. Whenever things go awry, I just get married again, and change my name again.  I use your social-security number and even your license, if you are a female, and the authorities are never, ever suspicious. I even dye my hair blond, if necessary to look more the part.

“Does that sound desperate to you?  Have I mentioned that I test more average than a Midwest housewife on those ”˜personality tests?’” That is hardly what I would call desperate.

“What did you do before you were involved in the illegal drug business?  Did you have a real profession to help raise the kids?”

Yes;  (close-up sincere look here)  actually, I earned a good living in the Beauty and Hair industry.

You mean “Beautician School?”

Well, technically you could say that I also have a trade.  I do have my ”˜Operator’s License’ in ”˜Beautician School,’ which includes ”˜Hair,” and in my case, “Fashion-nails.”

For many years, both inside and outside of the Women’s Penitentiary—where I was professionally-trained—I practiced my life-skill set in the “Fashion Industry.”  In fact, I could still do your hair.  Sometimes, I trim my parole officer’s hair, just to keep up appearances, so to speak.

“So, don’t you want to be legal?  I mean, for your children’s sakes?  Aren’t you afraid of going back to prison?” That’s a pretty heavy price to pay for manufacturing and selling highly-addictive substances—in your case, Crystal Meth, a highly toxic drug made with ingredients such as ”˜Draino,”˜  WOULD YOU WANT YOUR OWN CHILDREN ADDICTED TO SUCH SUBSTANCES? WOULDN’T BEING LEGAL BE SO MUCH EASIER FOR ALL CONCERNED?”

Again, I could but, why would I?  Wouldn’t that make me ”˜desperate?’  I think I have already established that I am NOT desperate.

But, why would I? Reality Shows so much more lucrative when you’re on the traveling a circuit: I am a mega-star of the Reality Show gambit:  “Desperate Meth-Lab Operators of Some Special County, Washington.”

Let me begin this interview again.  My brain-cell count is not what I would wish. So, like I say, after my stint in that institution of higher-learning, prison, I then went on to work in the “specialty “sales industry.  You could say that I was self-employed in this specialty sales field: the pharmaceutical drug field, with a minor in illegal drug-manufacturing.  I had my own office, a handy, double-wide trailer with all the amenities of home: a stove, raw materials for cooking certain recipes, let us say, which not unlike that German sour-dough starter that’s about a thousand years’ old, my recipes are “protected,” under lock-and-key.

I also have a very old dog, who permanently resides under my trailer.

Nobody, not even my local police department, in Some Special City, Washington has even an inkling of this special recipe of mine.  They do, however, wear those fancy-schmancy special germ-free one-piece white suits, the ones with the oxygen masks. And, Law Enforcement, such as they are, have special, trained attack-dogs that can “sniff-out-crime from a hundred-paces,” should they ever suspect a crime that is in progress, which it never is. Most of my employees work the night-shift.

This is, to coin a phrase: REALITY.  And this is, to coin another phrase: A REALITY SHOW. Here is: THE REALITY HEADQUARTERS  (where I make the mega-millions and employ many people).  These are: MY REALITY RELATIVES AND FRIENDS, one of which we will have to vote out of the trailer, after tonight’s show. Here is: MY REALITY DOG, who lives under my trailer, permanently.  I use only: ORGANIC MATERIALS, MADE IN AMERICA, in my manufacturing process.

More to the point is my inability to focus here, so let me begin again.  I have a degree in “Fashion-Nails,” and am presently self-employed in the drug-manufacturing business. I employ all of my relatives and friends, and even have accounts with Visa and Master Card.  And, it is really true what they say about American Express, or whichever one of those darned credit cards that you “shouldn’t leave home without.”

“Tell the home audience a story that illustrates this point.”

One of my best Operators tells this great story.  True Story.  This Operator—let’s just call her ”˜M.’  She’s the one who gave me my best ideas:  changing my hair and marital status, and therefore my Identity. Anywho, “M” had a dear friend for about ten years”¦I think she was a teacher or a professor—One of those “smarty-pants,” at any rate.  ”˜M’ never went to college, but she was smarter than the professor.

“How so?”

How Socatric of you to ask me that question.  ”˜M’ took this teacher for all she was worth.  Her retirement account, her house, her car.  Everything she had.

“Didn’t that make ”˜M’ feel guilty?  Or at least a little bad for the professor?  How could she live with herself.”

Well, ”˜M’ wasn’t desperate, if you’re still riding that dead horse. All along, the professor—being in that Ivory Tower; I think she taught at a private Liberal Arts’ College, not unlike ”˜Beautician School.’  Anyway, the professor lost all her confidence.  ”˜M’ signs-over the professor’s retirement fund, the house, the car, etc.

“How could ”˜M’ get away with that?  Didn’t the police care?  Identity Theft and Forgery are Major Crimes.”

Only if you get caught.  Otherwise, they are simply “opportunities,” as we in the drug industry like to say.  In fact, the professor freaked-out, and had panic-attacks over this thing, and she still didn’t get it that ”˜M’ was behind the whole thing.  She thought ”˜M’s’ tacky family and friends were behind it.  That’s a professor for you.  Always thinking that people are good and have good consciences.  Too many philosophy courses and not enough life!

“So, what happened to the professor, then?”

Well, the private Liberal Arts College Dean, or whatever, already has a problem with the professor because she—the professor—insists on teaching these hard books, and thinking, instead of remembering the bottom-line, TUITION, which the Dean was thinking about.  So, the college Dean, seeing the professor having these panic-attacks, oh yes, and the professor had also been in a car accident because she was so upset about losing her house.  So, get this: the College Dean sends the professor off on permanent disability!

“How could they get away with that?  Didn’t the professor find an attorney and sue the college?

True story, I swear.  So get this: the professor is on Social Security Disability now.  How is she going to afford to hire an attorney?  Besides, there’s more.  The professor has even more panic-attacks, so a friend of hers has her committed to a Mental Hospital, because she thinks that the professor is probably Manic-Depressive.  She, the friend, even goes to court to testify that the professor is a harm to herself.  The professor, meanwhile, spends two weeks in the Mental Hospital.  And, get this:  The Psychiatrist won’t let her out of the Mental Hospital until the professor “admits” that she is Manic-depressive.

“So, does the professor admit it, so she could get out of the Mental Hospital?  And what about ”˜M.’ What is ”˜M’ doing all this time?

I’ll get back to ”˜M’ in a minute.  No, the professor doesn’t confess. Instead, these friends of hers from one of those anonymous twelve-step programs spring the professor from the hospital, after two weeks of this, going on a possible three-month stay in the State Mental Hospital.  Is that perfect, or what?

“What is the professor doing now? Is she okay?”

“Well, it’s been almost a year since that ”˜mental hospital’ thing happened.  The professor is still unemployed, still on social-security disability, and still living with the friend who committed her to the hospital in the first place.  I guess she’s putting her life back together now, or whatever.’

“What about ”˜M?’  What is ”˜M’ doing now?”

”˜M’?  She’s moved-on now. She tried to get married a few times, so she could change her name.  She’s using the professor’s social-security card and her license. She dyes her hair blond and looks for new opportunities.  And get this:  she keeps changing the professor’s address back to Some Special City, Washington so she can steal the mail.  She has asked the Some Special City Police Department for all of the professor’s police reports, so that when the professor requests them the police say they have already been sent.  Have I mentioned that ”˜M’s’ mother was a state regulator and had access to private records?

“That sounds more like fiction to me.  How could that all be true?  ”˜M’ sounds pretty desperate to me.”

It’s all true, so help me God.  And, like I say, desperate is not a word I would use. The professor might use that word, but you can see why.  She trusted somebody who turned out to be a ”˜Meth-house Operator,’ and didn’t even know it.  But that is the only desperate thing about this.

As they say: ”˜Truth is Stranger than Fiction.’  I couldn’t make-up this story, even if I tried.

Posted in: Cases, Female sociopaths

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Ox Drover


Dang good plot line for a REALITY SHOW, yep!

Problem is, NO ONE would believe such a yarn, couldn’t possibly be anyone as screwed up as that professor chick! I mean now, the other folks, them is just your normal average ever-day nex-dooor neighbors, but that professor chick, now, she’s really screwed. But, what kin ya expeck, all that book-larnin will do that to ya brain sum times.

She shudda jest stayed away from them 12 step thing-a-ma-jigs…I went to one of them thangs oncet and it was a one story bildin’ –wudd’n no steps attall.

ROTFLMAO!!!! Can’t wait for the next installment! I’ll read it after I wat-ch wrestlin!


My God. How do these people get away with this stuff? It’s like the whole system just gives them a golden ticket through life… so surreal how these sociopaths just take what they want… right down to other’s stability and peace of mind.

Ox Drover

Because they can!


This is good vs. evil, people. Who needs fiction when reality is like this?

Ox Drover

Dear Purewater,

Since the Garden of Eden, EVIL has been jealous of GOOD and has sought to destroy good even if it accomplishes nothing but the destruction of Good.

I think her SATIRICAL treatment of this is great! In a way, it probably gets the real heart of the story across more than a non-satirical rendition would.

The psychopath enjoys doing evil (well some of them) and the ones who don’t actually enjoy an activit6y BECAUSE it is evil, will at least not CARE that it destroys others.

Life on this planet is eat or be eaten when it comes down to the “bottom line.” You are either prey or predator, and most of the time a species will not prey on its own members, but HUMANS DO AS A GENERAL RULE, probably more than not.

It isn’t just a matter of fighting over scarce resources of food and sex like some species will do with their own, but when there is PLENTY for everyone, the HUMAN psychopathic predators will continue to prey JUST FOR FUN!

Elizabeth Conley

Front Porch Talker,

My heart goes out to you.

I was thinking about sanity recently. Did you know that it’s “insane” to place value on truth? That’s the current trend. Insisting on honesty is “Black and white thinking”, “a very common dysfunctional thought pattern!” At least, that’s what pop psychology tells us.

So if you’re upset because Bernie Madoff made off with your life savings, you’re a pathetic nut job. He told you a bunch of “truths”. You expected those “truths” to be true because you’re too rigidly dysfunctional to accept that all truth is subjective. You poor little histrionic nut. Maybe some time in a psych ward will help you calm down…

Bernie now, he’s perfectly well. See how calm he is? See how secure in his identity and comfortable with himself he is? He’s well. He’s well, his victims are sick, and no one thinks there’s anything crazy about this paradigm!

I strongly disagree with our culture’s acceptance of the notion that all truth is relative, and those who insist on moral absolutes are mentally ill. It causes serious problems when “moral relativists”, (I call them liars and thieves), run our banks, industries and governments.

Steven Covey’s book The Speed of Trust effectively outlines the value of honesty in building an effective organization.

If as a culture, we reject honesty in favor of “subjective truth”, pop psychology may affirm our self-worth by assuring us we’re sane, but we will collectively fail in all aspects of civilization that matter.

Our families, our industries, our churches and our economies will go down in flames.

What you’ve experienced is just a variation on the ordeal that more Americans are experiencing than ever before. This is the age of the sociopath. There are many of them, and more reaching adulthood every year. The forecast calls for pain. Satan must be ROFLHisFAO.


I’m glad (and grateful) that I grew up in an era where you had to actually have some REAL TALENT in order to be famous.

Today, we have young girls showing their crotches for the paparazzi as they get out of cars, and leaking sex tapes of themselves in order to be famous.
Yes, I really believe that is what is going on.
Because it’s happened TOO many times to TOO many girls who would NOT otherwise be “famous”, for each incident to be innocent and unplanned.
It’s become a trend….a pathway to “fame” if you will.
I think it’s sick.

And the men (Charlie Sheen comes to mind) are either beating up their girlfriends (or worse), or killing animals (Michael Vick) or being idolized for playing a vampire in a movie (I think one of the hot movies right now is called “Twilight”).

And then, we have the parents like that incident with “Balloon Boy”, and the latest one where the parents allowed their 16-year old daughter to sail around the world in a boat.
And, of course, she ran into rough waters in the Indian Ocean, and had to be rescued.
BTW, who pays for these rescues?? Because they are NOT cheap.
I’ll bet it’s the taxpayers.

Reality TV has definitely put a spotlight on the dysfunction that exists in today’s society.
But, instead of acknowledging it, and trying to correct it, we seem to be glorifying it, basking in it, and ca$hing in on it.

I wonder how far into the toilet we will go before we decide this is NOT a healthy direction…. not for pop culture or for society as a whole.


Dear FPT,
Truth IS stranger than fiction! One of the things I have said to many people who don’t know my entire story is, “You wouldn’t believe me if I told you.” And they wouldn’t! It’s so crazy and so insane, they would shake their heads and look at me as though I was only half there. Like your story above, which is all too true, to those who have never really been involved with one of these types of people, it sounds like fiction. But it’s not. It’s all too real.


“Today, we have young girls showing their crotches for the paparazzi as they get out of cars”

Uh Rosa,
Is this wrong? I try to do it regularly……one problem…..the paps don’t seem to be following me…..ya think because i’m not so young?


Erin Brock 🙂

See…..that’s why I miss you when you are not here…

Ox Drover

Dear EB, Hunny, I hate to bust yer bubble baby, but there ain’t no line forming outside my door either! So you might as well do like I do and wear something long or with slacks to cover up that view cause we don’t want someone falling down, choking on their own tongue and dying right there on the side walk in front of us when they see that sight, now do we! LOL

There might have been a day when people would play to see that, but it ain’t been lately, and I’m at a point now where I can’t give away what I usta coulda SOLD! ROTFLMAO

Rosa, you make a great point–subjective truth. Just like SUBJECTIVE SELF ESTEEM, actually we ought to have to do something POSITIVE to improver our self esteem, even if it is just that we are not EVIL like the Ps.

How far will we go into the toilet, Rosa? I don’t see any great revival of moral issues going on in the US at least. It doesn’t matter so much WHAT code of morals the world follows if it will follow ANY code at all. Right now it seems that the “nothing is wrong” seems to be what is accepted.


ox your still worth alot to me – i will give you five bucks if’n you will come mow my yard…

Ox Drover

HENRY!!! MY YARD IS WAIST HIGH TO A TALL GIRAFFE and I ain’t gonna get out in that heat to mow nothing! I swear I may have it baled when they come to do the hay, but I just ain’t gonna worry about the front yard! That’s the nice thing about living in the sticks back in the woods, no one can see your yard and if they come to see you to look at your yard and complain, you can tell’em to go home!

I’m gett’in as “independent as a hog on ice” speaking of Ice, I wish I could figure my way to Oz to visit Gem, it’s getting winter time down there now!!!! Holy moley that would be wonderful. Just lie down nakid in the snow! If I ever complain about winter again I want you guys to BOINK ME WITH THE SKILLET!!!!! This is ramping up to be 1980 the SEQUEL!!!! 100 days in a row with over 100 degree heat index and not enough rain to wet yer whistle.


I guess the dysfunction in these reality shows is why the ratings are so high.
People love to watch a good train wreck.
And, it’s the only way some of these people are going to become famous, because they sure do not possess any real talent.

The same is true of relationships.
It has been said that women love sociopathic men, because they are more exciting.
But, in fact, it’s not that they are more exciting.
I think it’s more that the sociopathic man (or woman) is unpredictable and behaves badly, and we find ourselves obsessing over partners like this….trying to figure them out… a complex math problem or something.

Where as, we do NOT have to obsess as much over a healthy partner, because he/she already behaves appropriately.
So, we are not obsessing as much over the healthy man, because there is nothing to “figure out” with a healthy partner.
Therefore, we see the healthy man as boring, and the dysfunctional man as exciting.

I’m paraphrasing from “The Gaslight Effect”:

“Instead of seeing things clearly with the abusive partner, we make up fantasies to compensate for the reality of abuse.
This way, it seems like we have more control over the situation.
For example, we believe we can change him into what we want if we just “love” him enough.
Or, no matter how badly he behaves, it does not matter because we are strong enough (or forgiving enough, or nurturing enough) to transcend it. We may not be able to change him, but we are definitely strong enough to put up with him.
So, instead of our gaslighter’s bad behavior making us like him less, it actually makes us love him more, because it offers yet another chance to prove how strong we are.
And if that means putting up with someone who insults us, or ignores us, or seems more preoccupied with his own needs than with ours–then so be it. At least NOW we are getting something good in return for all our misery–this “wonderful” soul mate.
We cling to that fantasy of the relationship because it seems like the chance to avoid our deepest fear: that no one will ever love us the way we want to be loved and, just like when we were children, we’ll be disappointed and alone.
And all the while, his bad behavior makes us like ourselves less as we continually fail at winning his approval and proving how good, capable, and lovable we are.”

These are some of the dynamics of being in a relationship with a gaslighter.

More from “The Gaslight Effect”:

“The good news is that if we have the courage to leave these gaslighting relationships and look honestly at what they’ve cost us, we can begin to see an end to the terrible fear that’s been haunting us our entire lives-the fear of being unloved and alone….
If we can see that our true selves don’t really depend on another person’s maintenance, that we are no longer the helpless infants or young children who needed so desperately to turn our parents into heroes, then we can finally begin to enjoy the people in our lives for who they are, rather than needing them to be the good parents we never had.
And we can be sure that, if we’re being treated badly, we’ll have the courage to say no and leave if we have to, which multiplies exponentially the chances of being treated well.”

I think if you pay attention to your feelings, and don’t let anyone dictate their version of reality to you (gaslighting), then hopefully you will be centered enough to recognize the red flags of a toxic relationship sooner rather than later.


Thanks for sharing your writings. Too funny! Knowing this was written based on reality while looking at the strangeness of truth vs. fiction, humor is sometimes the best therapy. When you reach the point where you can find some amusement in the situation rather than harboring anger, you are well on your way to recovery. There are those who are too accepting and forgiving of those who get away with what they continue to do instead of exposing them and holding them accountable, thereby allowing this behavior to continue while the rest of us are left shaking our heads.

Like what you shared from “The Gaslight Effect.”

EB, Oxy, and others,
I’m going to start coming here more often for the healthy chuckles.

Twice Betrayed

Elizabeth Conley: your post on truth and pop psychology nails it to the wall! Excellent!

Two demons were talking. One said, “Let’s say there is no God.” The second one says, “No, they will never believe that. Let’s say there is, but you can’t know him and right and wrong [white and black] are just shades of gray.”

Ox Drover

TB!!!! AMEN , sister!!!!!! LOL ROTFLAMO Ain’t that the truth! How are you today, darling? HOpe you are feeling better! Ya’ll get any rain? It’s just a sauna bath here so I’m hunkering down by the AC inside! TIL FALL I think!

Twice Betrayed

I am ok, Oxy, thanks for asking!! No rain, sweltering heat! Am in contact with nutty daughter #2 with the GD. When I was outside that bar with my older daughter and my friend, I was at a loss to help my GD. Went straight to God in prayer right there on that street in front of that restaurant bar. There we stood in the darkness on the east side of LR joining hands and praying. But, let me tell you, God moved fast as I asked Him to do. Later I found out security forced my daughter to put earplugs in my GD’s ears and remove her from in front of the speakers. Now, my daughter is more reasonable and has accepted the ear protection muffs I sent her. [This daughter of mine has always been great with this kid…right down to using organic skin care for her! Never seen her act like that ever before regarding GD. Always kept her from me and used her as a club over my head but GD did not know it.]

Twice Betrayed

Hugs to you, Oxy! You are The Rock. Bless you!



I think the management/security in that restaurant/bar knows what CHILD NEGLECT/ENDANGERMENT is, and they did NOT want to be liable for anything like that.

In fact, I was going to suggest you get video of your GD next to the speakers with no ear protection, and turn it into the police.

But, thankfully, security did the right thing and provided protection for the little one.

I am also a big believer in prayer, Twice Betrayed.
My Mom and I are constantly praying over my niece.

I find great comfort in it, and I believe HE hears us.

Twice Betrayed

Rosa: oh yeah, that is the reason security enforced that. But, hey, whatever it takes. Don’t care about motives of security….all I care is my GD was protected. Something, even tho I cared, I was powerless to do.

Sort of like the motorcycle helmet laws. Anyone should have enough sense to wear a helmet, but many don’t. Make and enforce the law to force people to wear helmets=saved lives. Sad when we have to do that….but that is what the civil laws are set up to do. Protect us/people from their/our own lack of moral character.

I agree, Rosa, I believe in the power of prayer. Seen God answer too many times in my life to doubt. That is so great you and your mother keep in prayer for your niece! I find comfort and hope in knowing I have help. We are in a war here!

Twice Betrayed

Rosa: I do have pictures, not video tho. Security there also has pictures of her with earplugs in and removed from in front of speakers. So, we both have documented photos. The kicker is tho: I had someone inside the bar watching to see if the photos were just staged and she would bring her back in front of speakers and w/o ear plugs. She did not.


Twice Betrayed:

Your GD could have just as easily been in an establishment where security did not have the fortitude or moral compass to provide ear protection to children.

But, in your case, they did provide the ear protection, which is great on their part.

You felt powerless….but God was right there.

I feel like God does that sometimes….he leaves us powerless so he can show us that He’s the one in control….if we believe.
I call it faith.

~I just saw your other post. It’s great that you have documented photos. Because you just never know.


I have thought for a long time that I should write a book about my life with the daughter – I shall call it “How In the He** did Ozzie and Harriet get on Jerry Springer.”

Twice Betrayed – keep up the good work guarding GD.

Love to all

Twice Betrayed

Rosa: I do not think they would have done anything till they saw me trying to get my daughter to use ear plugs and remove GD from in front of speakers. They sent a member of security outside to evaluate situation when I went out and I was asking why they allowed children in there to begin with. That’s when they said it was an ‘all age venue’…BUT it was a bar with NO children, loud! Measly little sign on door that said under 18 could not drink….but see, they get around the liquor laws by having a restaurant attached to the bar area. Restaurant was on the other side of this bar in an attached building. Also this place is upscale, but in a terrible area of downtown [this place was a hang out of a former president]. I had ear protection in my purse already, but they did hand out ear plugs upon request. Yeah, they are better like that. Thanks, Rosa! Hugs!

Which, hey, if my daughter wants to go there and hang out/hear music WITHOUT my GD subjected to that ear blasting music/atmosphere, that’s her choice. My objections were: my 3 year old GD losing her hearing, and she was sick and absolutely terrorized not understanding what was going on, a bar is no place IMO for a small child. I mean it’s possible to terrorize small children in the movie theater, that’s why they have movie ratings [which are not what they should be IMO-but still something]. PARENTAL GUIDANCE SUGGESTED! IMO my daughter failed to exercise proper and safe parental guidance.

Twice Betrayed

Milo: that’s funny that you should say that on Jerry Springer. Same thing we said outside that bar when we all went toe to toe with my younger daughter regarding GD. We were all left wondering how in the world had we been reduced to the Springer Show. Bleh. Sad, really, how these P’s view/act/behave. Insane! And they push us into insanity also. I was not in my daughter’s face. I was in control, but my older daughter was in her face big time. It was just a scene from hades. If my GD had not been there, I am afraid my two daughters would have come to blows! Course, if my GD had not been there, it would not have gone down. I will bet my dad rolled over in his grave… that behavior. I almost did…..felt like I was one step from a grave.


fpt – i know it’s ‘your’ story, but as a ‘spath story’ your use of the circular logic, in reference to ‘desperation’, really hits the mark. kudos.

Ox Drover

Dear TB,

Yea, JERRY SPRINGER. It is just unbelieveable to me that people will watch that sort of thing and that he can actually make a living with that show. I would be ashamed to let anyone know what I did for a living if I was Springer. I’d put a bag over my face! LOL

Yea, Milo, same here the image of how did my family get to be on Springer—I would say first off, “I wasn’t raised like that” but you know what, I WAS RAISED LIKE THAT–we just didn’t use the F* word and we said “Please and thank you” —but our family ACTED LIKE THAT! We just kept it SECRET!

It was okay to DO IT but it just wasn’t OK to let anyone know you did it.

So now, people not only DO it, they parade it on the TUBE!

Ox Drover

ps: I’m not sure which is worse, covering it up, or lettin’ it all hang out in public.

Twice Betrayed

Oxy: I know it! Either Springer inside or outside, I guess. Ah, sheesh! My daughter has taught my little GD manners just like she was raised. My little GD says Please, thank you, sorry and more. I am thinking it was a BIG mistake to have my older daughter, who has P traits also, along with me [in that regard, due to circumstances, I had no choice]. This older daughter has never had children and tries to boss my younger one. So, between the two of them…..two power mad females clashing! Had I been with just my friend, I might could have done more with my younger daughter. *hind sight 20/20!

Ox Drover

Well, that’s what happens when we get a couple of Ps in the same vacinity with each other, especially ones that clash and have power troubles, and what worse than 2 sisters! LOL ROTFLMAO

Yea hind sight is always 20:20 that’s the worst part of it!

Well, it is gonna be 101 in a couple of days! Wonder what the heat index will be to that!? I think it is ramping up to 1980 the worst year in the world for heat and heat indexes! Wouldn’t get below 85 by midnight!~ NO AC that summer either! The summer of my divorce! Ah memories!

Twice Betrayed

Oxy: LOL….you are priceless! 🙂

Twice Betrayed

Whoa, listen to this comment my daughter wrote to a friend on a social site: “Hmnnn Lessie. Love being the center of a universe? More than anything in this world. No matter how big or small. I’m a gentle ruler. Lololol I like to say.. A willing mind will never notice I’m ruling. I’m painless and intense.”

This made me shudder till I had to get a sweater and it’s 100 degrees here.

super chic

TB, ugh, that is a chilling thing to read.
“A willing mind…”
Is that what I was? A willing mind?
“I’m painless and intense”….
Please hand that sweater over here!!

Twice Betrayed

shabby: I guess we all were. I know one thing, she is not painless.

Passing sweater to you!


Holy Shiznit TB….
Just read your D’s comment…..
Can I borrow that sweater please ladies!


TB – her statement is interesting to me. #1 she’s self aware (aka freaking responsible), #2 pre spath i probably would have seen the ‘love is..’ part of the sentence and NOT paid attention to the second half, and #3 our physical / chemical/ emotional reactions to scary stuff they write/ reveal are strong.

I am sure my ppath could have written this very thing. she writes a LOT of clap trap. when she’s in ‘character’ she doesn’t reveal as much (but her un-nice characters do reveal some, now that i know what to look for) but when she’s operating as herself, oy!

she wrote a post directed at the dupe she messed with for a couple of years (before she was found out and ejected from her home). this dupe is suing her and is active online, blogging about the ppath. the ppath’s post was full of vitriol, and at the end of the post she wrote: ‘love ya. and i raise you a miss ya, I really do.’ this chilled me. really really chilled me.

Ox Drover

Wow, TB, pass the sweater and some one hand me a blanket as well!

Talk about “self aware”—yep she is self aware about THAT for sure, but she is trying to fool her friend and/or herself about how “painless” she is, she KNOWS she is not painless, she ENJOYS inflicting the pain! (head shaking here!)”

TB this reminds me of some of the letters that P-son wrote to the other Ps bragging about how “smart” they all were and how they would “prevail” because there were more of them and they were smarter than I was. We’ll see about that won’t we? (head nodding here!)

The ARROGANCE is CHILLING enough that we can go ice skating in Hades—and even though we may be able to fight the consequences of their abuse in some ways, in other ways, there is NO DEALING WITH IT.

As much as it hurt to go through those letters of P son’s for the attorney (and who knows if he will even need to use them) the thing is that it HELPED ME. It may not have helped anything else, but just jREADING them with NEW EYES, the new eyes I have NOW makes me know that I can’t deal with him any other way.

I read the book about Ellen Pakkies the south African woman who murdered her 20 year old psychopathic and/or meth addicted son a couple of years ago (from reading the story of her life and his life and her abusive parents and his abusive bio father etc I think it is more P than addiction, but the two together made him lethal) anyway, from reading her story where she finally “got enough” and strangled him as he slept passed out on drugs because she was so afraid of him, after him torturing her and the rest of her family for seven years, I realize that THERE BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GO I……and lots of other mothers and fathers.

The author of the book blamed it all on poverty and drugs, but we know it isn’t all about poverty and/or drugs, but a mixture of genetics and environment and “self medication”—but the story of this woman’s abuse from day 1 of her life until the day she killed her son is heartbreaking at the least.

Ellen’s son enjoyed torturing his mother (if the story is told as it happened) and targeted her particularly. I know that feeling.


oxy – what happened to her?

Ox Drover

Her case drew enough attention from the “right” attorney etc that he did her case pro bono, and she got off with probation.

After she killed him, she went to work and told her boss, then went to the police and confessed she had done it and why. Her family stood behind her, and so did her community.

She had tried EVERYTHING since the kid was 13 to get him out of trouble and get help, no one would help,, the courts wouldn’t the medical, the law, the police, NOTHING.

Now she works with drug addicted families etc. and has become a symbol for the problems.

The book actually was more a beginner lecture on the problems and solutions of drug addiction and blaming most stuff on the drugs.

The only part about that I totally agree with is LEGALIZATION OF DRUGS to take the profit out of it. Several countries are successfully doing away with their heroin problems and have almost no new addicts, and up to 1/3 of the current addicts per year go into either methadone treatment or stop drug use.

Tik (meth) is apparently one of the BIG drugs in Africa just like in my area it is one of the big baddies.

I was a bit disappointed in the book itself because I wanted to read more about the woman’s life and the author was a) not a professional writer and b) not psychologically trained.

Anyway, it was an interestiing case. The book is only available in South Africa and was sent to me by Gemini who found out about this woman.

I definitely can relate to this woman’s plight though, even though my own P-son never as far as I know did much in the way of drugs, he was mean enough without them disinhibiting him.


thanks oxy. maybe someone could send this woman info about lovefraud.

ya never know…

Ox Drover

She is barely literate, though she did teach herself to read and write English some, which is not her native tongue. She lived on the street as a child some, married to two abusers, then third marriage for >20 years to apparently a good man.

And we think WE have “problems”–I’ve spent enough time in third-world countries in Africa and South America to know what REAL poverty is, like NO WATER, AND NO FOOD which is going on in Niger NOW–and so what is on the news THE WORLD CUP of the ELITE of the world playing soccer while the continent has such horrible famine, war and pestilence over most of the continent! Don’t get me on my soap box, hungry babies are a real TRIGGER FOR ME!

Twice Betrayed

Raiding closet for blankets for all! I know it chilled me to the bone. Very self revealing. To think that beautiful, sweet, kind little girl grew into this beautiful, intelligent [which makes her even more deadly] cruel, mind controlling person is more than I can wrap my mind around. Her little girl [GD] looks just like her and captures everyone’s attention, because of her over the top beauty and intelligence. Everybody worships beauty. It’s bewitching…ask Hollywood. Have you ever noticed how many of these people are beautiful and handsome? My X-this daughter’s dad was very handsome. I read where we picture Satan as ugly, horned and repulsive [from the pagan god Pan] But, actually, he was an angel, the highest creature God created. Beautiful to behold, full of musical ability. Beguiling and bewitching, he roams the earth as a roaring lion in search of those he may devour.

Ox Drover


You are so right, EVIL really doesn’t always have an “Ugly” face, but one of peace and beauty or excitement and thrills….it is TEMPTING because if it weren’t, no one would go there. Of course the victims of an EVIL person or thing may not see what is underneat the “beauty” until it is too late.

I think that is also how I can make a division between the EVIL P-Man in prison and the sweet cute little boy that I loved so much. They are not the same creature.

None of us really are the “child” that we were, that child is gone, buried inside of the adults we have become….and the thing is, I just separated the two, the “missing” child and the EVIL Man. I buried the child and the Man is a STRANGER.

I thought I knew who the man was, but I was wrong, just as wrong as anyone of you who were married to one and had NO idea what he was doing behind your backs. I “should” have known, there were RED FLAGS, but I chose not to see what was flapping in the breeze until it was too late to undo all the consequences to myself and others. But I’m coming to terms with those consequences so things are better. I’m doing better because I know better. That’s about all we CAN DO.

In a way it was easier I think for me to make the “choice” of what to do as there was no “carrot” he held over my head. No child I loved, that he could hold just outside my reach and watch me dance to his tune for the potential opportunity to see the child. I got so tired of grabbing at brass rings that were always snatched out of my hand at the last second, I quit reaching for them.

Some how he always managed to pull defeat out of the jaws of victory! So, in the end we both lose. He will I hope spend the rest of his natural life inside a Texas pen, and I will spend the rest of mine being cautious. By trying to control me, and rob me, he deprived himself of the ONE asset he had left, ME! If he had just done NOTHING I would have been there for him and helped him get a parole eventually (probably this upcoming one, as Texas murderers are spending about 20 yrs inside on average.) I am hoping that I have sealed his fate forever with the letters from the State Senator and the Head of the State Parole board in addition to the attorney.

Twice Betrayed

Oxy: there is a world of wisdom in your post!! I read it three times to record it. Yes, we do know better now!
Buried…..yeah, I’ve often thought of it that way. Even Hitler was a cute looking kid! And his mother loved him. *sigh



Twice Betrayed

I think what I’ve had the most difficulty understanding is their lack of appreciation of love. They care nothing for love, only worship. They use your love for them as power over you. Just a power tool in their P tool box. They don’t really care if you fear them, if they can create obedience to their will and control you thru cruelty and fear, that works for them. I have actually watched little tinges of humor cross their mostly expressionless faces when they are torturing you. And many times, they have NO goal in mind, just like to see how far they can go with you till you either blow or walk from the use/abuse. And hey, they are fully aware because it’s all calculated way ahead of the actual scene being played out. If not, then it’s just a little ‘off the cuff’ fun and torture games. I just don’t understand people that don’t want to be loved and love in return. My mind does not comprehend that. I know my X said, in a rare moment of honesty, that he didn’t know what love was. That he didn’t understand it. WOW!


Twice, it is a very difficult concept to graps, I agree. I had (still have) a seriously hard time reconciling the beautiful infant that I birthed with the monster that he became. VERY hard to wrap my head around this, indeed.

Twice Betrayed

Buttons: I totally relate! Hugs!

Twice Betrayed

“Whoever loves becomes humble. Those who love have, so to speak, pawned a part of their narcissism.”


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