By | June 21, 2010 142 Comments

What if he says he’ll get help?

Lovefraud recently received the following e-mail from a woman who we’ll call “Callista.” I’ll have some comments at the end.

This is yet ANOTHER email from a woman who realized she had been with a sociopath. In my case, it’s been for 8 years. He fits the bill on all counts, except that while his finances are always a mess, he met me when I was coming out of a divorce and mine were a mess too. So he didn’t see me as a “mark” he could use and swindle.

He is now paying me support and believe it or not he was not only impeccable about paying it to his ex-wife, he is also impeccable about paying me. This confuses me because he lacks the trait of screwing EVERYONE. Don’t get me wrong, there is a trail of foreclosures, faulting on bank loans and people he’s never paid back.

He moved from me and was immediately living with someone else. Denying it all along. I have done enough reading to know the traits and I know pity is one of their favorites. I have never sat by when I discovered something. I was just never looking. I trusted him. Sigh. He came over and I told him I was saying goodbye and that I would not be speaking, or seeing him again. I told him of what I read and learned about his pathology. He came over angry because he had promised one arrangement and as usual denied he made the deal (even though it was recorded in a text message. “That’s not what I meant,” he said.) He hates when I hold him accountable, as they all do.

I told him I had been reading about his pathology. Trying to understand him and how my own pathology fits into his. I told him about sociopaths. If you have read as much as you think you have, you know there is a brain connection. He had fallen as a young child, head first into a concrete basement (they had just poured it and removed the stairs). He also had epilepsy as a child and I would be dollars to donuts, it was in the frontal lobe.

When I explained all the traits, he really looked sad. He once said to me, “I may be a bastard, but it doesn’t mean I don’t have feelings.” As we know, this still only means he has feelings for himself and no other. But he was acknowledging his lack of relationships and admitting to the traits and asked me what he can do about it. I told him that based on what I read there is nothing he can do, but that they can very effectively diagnose him and that the first thing he should do is get an evaluation done. He reached out to me and said, “It’s not my fault. You’ve given me something to think about.”

I just left for 3 weeks. The “goodbye” conversation was when he was coming over to pick up the dog. He then said, “let’s not talk and give me a chance to read up on this and then when you get back we can talk”. And THEN he said, “If I admitted to all the women I was involved with, do you think we could put it all behind us and move forward together?” Here is my thought on that. On the one hand, my own wishful thinking is thinking that perhaps there is a part of him that understands there is an issue. Perhaps he does have a conscience? His perfect record of paying support indicates he has some decency. Or perhaps he knew the EXACT thing and the ONLY thing he could say to me in that parking lot, (as he left for his new girlfriend’s apartment), that would stop me from fully disengaging. He used the pity card and he used the intimacy he knows we seem to experience so deeply together.

As you can see, I’m struggling with this. What’s real? What’s not real? Based on what I have read, I have to conclude that the entire exchange is ENTIRELY false. I know so much of it is, but is it really false to the core? Can he perhaps have a part of him that can prevail and nurture the part of him that does have goodness. He is incredibly kind to our animals. He’s kill anyone who would harm then in ANY way.

Don’t get me wrong, this man has done the unthinkable. He has crossed every decent line there is. I know the answer for sociopaths to “can they be saved?” is “no.”

Ok down to the question. Did he simply use his cunning ability to do and say the only and exact thing that would stop me from cutting that final thread? Or are there some who are sociopaths to a lesser degree? I know he is weary of all the secrets and lies and the life he leads. I can see it. He just doesn’t know how to get out. It’s all he’s known. I had no idea, until I learned the trail of women from his past and how many he continued to carry on with and keep “on the line” for years and years. So am I just another he’s trying to add to the “back burner” in case his latest doesn’t work out?

I would NEVER entertain reconnecting with him unless he came to me and said, “I want to get evaluated and I want to come clean to you.” Without that, I wouldn’t set one foot near him. So what do I do if he DOES say that? My feeling is I wait to see what the evaluation says and how “clean” the “coming clean” truly is. At the end of the day, I’d bet my life he’d never do it. It’s too much of a leap from where he has been for so many years. I don’t think he is capable, and while I’m spending my time writing this email, he’s having a fun-filled night with a new victim who “can’t believe how lucky” she is, and thinks she’s died and gone to heaven.

And there’s the last question. Do I try and warn her? I wish someone had tried with me. I am guessing she won’t believe me, but I would say things that would stick in her mind and acknowledge that I can understand why she would not want to believe what I am saying. He’s already cheated on her. I think that’s the one thing I could say that might make her stop. Although he’s SO good at lying, he’d convince her otherwise. But when things turn bad ”¦ and they will ”¦ perhaps she’ll remember what I said and know there is someone she can seek out to relate to.

So all this rambling is so typical of what these people do to our lives, our souls and our minds.

I am an intelligent, attractive, capable, kind woman. While he told me how worthless I was throughout, I managed to save my core and know that I am of value. But guess what? I stopped loving him ”¦ I was FREE of him ”¦ I didn’t even think of him. Then one day I came home from a grueling business trip. I was tired and lonely and he brought the dog home and sat on the sofa we’d sat on for so many years and we just talked. It was such a comfort. And that turned into a very intense hour in bed. He left and I was a mess. He said he felt connected to me and then went on to keep me twisting in the wind.

I knew he was living with someone. I knew the reason he couldn’t just spend time with me was because he couldn’t figure his way around not being accounted for. I could go on. I started this, wanting to outline a scenario and ask a simple question. I allowed myself to go on, because I think it demonstrates what happens to people like me. Oh, did I mention that the weekend I had hoped we would spend together and he messed me around ”¦ I was so desperate to get him to show me he cared that I took a bottle of pills and sent him a text and told him, thinking he’d “come to my rescue” and guess what he did? NOTHING! I would have died if not for stumbling out of my car (I had parked somewhere) and someone thought I was drunk and called the police. He basically left me for dead. Incredible.

Even more incredible is that I would ever speak to him again. And yet even more confusing is me explaining to him that someone who is healthy does not do what he did in that situation. Someone who is healthy does not lie to someone who almost died and say “I came by to see you” ”¦ “I called the police” ”¦ “I called the hospital.” I knew he had done none of those and I pointed out to him how only a sociopath would do something like this and his answer was “I need help.” DAMN HIM! Why couldn’t he have just been a jerk and denied it and argued with me. No he said the only that would not allow me to truly disconnect from him. Or does he truly realize how empty he is and is there something worth saving? Ugh. I’m exhausted.

I wrote this for my benefit. I wrote it for the benefit of anyone else who is going through an experience with a sociopath and has one JUST like mine.

I’ll let you know what happens. My bet is that he doesn’t give me the “material” to work with and I’ve basically just delayed my road to recovery by 3 weeks, because between now and when I return, I’ll be thinking, “what if he comes to me and says he’ll get help?” What if he does want to leave all the shallow relationships behind? What if I am really the only person he has ever loved (to the extent he can love)?

I have never allowed someone to abuse me the way he did. I see through people darn fast and I cut them off. But not this guy. This guy has got his hand on my heart and although I thought I was free, I am not. More work to do. More work to do.

Analysis and comments


Your e-mail is a superb example of how confusing it can be to be involved with a sociopath. When it’s good, it’s very good—but there’s so much deceit, game-playing and crazy-making. We’re torn between wanting the good times to return, wanting to help and wanting wholeness for ourselves.

First, an answer to one of your questions. Yes, it is possible for sociopaths to be not all bad. Sociopathy encompasses a range of behaviors. In fact, Dr. Robert Hare’s Psychopathy Checklist-Revised includes 20 traits, and an individual is scored on each separate trait. So it is possible for someone to score high on something like “deceitful and manipulative” and not as high on “poor behavior controls.”

It is possible for one sociopath to love animals, while another sociopath tortures them. My ex-husband, James Montgomery, loved animals, and was always bringing home exotic pets. Many sociopaths are corporate executives, and have enough money to pay their bills. Your ex has chosen to pay you support, at least for the moment. Does that mean he is capable of becoming the man that you deserve? Not necessarily.

Something to think about

You told him what you’ve learned about sociopathy. This, you said was his reaction:

He reached out to me and said, “It’s not my fault. You’ve given me something to think about.”

And then comes your question:

Did he simply use his cunning ability to do and say the only and exact thing that would stop me from cutting that final thread?

The answer could very well be yes. Sociopaths study their targets, and know exactly how to get the response that they want. Or, he could have had a glimmer of insight into his behavior. Some sociopaths do understand that they’re missing something in human interactions.

It is impossible to know what your ex intended. But either way, the relationship is not healthy for you. The best thing to do is look back at his behavior. He cheated on you. You almost committed suicide because of him, and he didn’t care. You can never trust this man to be there for you, to be faithful to you. Even if a childhood brain injury caused his condition—which I would doubt—his rehabilitation is not your responsibility.

So why are you having such a hard time cutting the final thread? It’s because sociopathic relationships act upon our brains in the same way as an addiction. Sociopaths instinctively know how to manipulate the human bonding process so that we become attached to them, and have a hard time breaking the attachment. For more on this, read the following article, especially the links at the end: Choose to break your addiction to a sociopath in 2010.

One of the components of the addiction is sex. Sex causes the release of a brain hormone called oxytocin. This hormone increases our sense of trust and bonding. This is why it’s important not to have sex with a sociopath when you’re trying to break off the relationship. Sex makes it more difficult for you to leave.

Warn the next victim

Finally, you asked if you should try to warn the next victim. This is a topic of much debate here on Lovefraud. Personally, I feel that if we can do it safely, we should at least try. Your analysis is correct. Maybe she won’t believe it now, but when things go bad, she may remember your words. For more discussion of this, including comments from other readers, see Should I warn the sociopath’s next victim?

Callista, you’re on the right track. You know the man has a problem. Your attachment to him is an addiction—this is not a moral judgment, just a statement of how the human bonding process works. Regardless of the degree of his pathology, or whether there is a chance for him to improve, for you he is bad news. Leave him in the dust.

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Ox Drover

Great article, Donna!

I worked for several years specifically with patients who had head and/or spinal cord injuries (many times, both) and even years ago, the research was pointing out the subtle problems with even minor injuries to brains.

More recently, research is showing that sports-related injuries in foot ball, boxing and other “contact” sports have lasting behavioral and cognitive impacts on these athletes throughout their entire lives, and can and frequently do lead to early dementia in the late years of middle age in these men.

The mention of a probably severe head injury as a child could definitely be a factor in this man’s behavior. Does it mean that he is not ALSO a psychopath? Since we know that psychopathy is most likely caused by both genetic and environmental components, this man could have a brain injury and psychopathy in various amounts of each, which might account for him being very high in psychopathic traits in some areas and not in others (like paying his x wives)

If the man did have a severe brain injury in childhood which was partly a factor in his behavior that included lying, sexual addiction, etc. it would in no way mean that there was “help” for this man or that she should tolerate these behaviors in a partner. Nor should it mean that she should, for “pity’s sake,” stay with such a man.

Your last statement, Donna, sums it up very precisely, “Regardless of the degree of his pathhology, or whether there is a chance for him to improve, for you he is bad news. Leave him in the dust.”


About men and their money…

Don’t be clouded just because a man is able to take care of you financially.

I know a lot of men who take care of women financially, but NOT emotionally.
They are lying and cheating on the side the entire time they are supposed to be taking care of their woman.
I’ve seen this a million times.

Men who take care of finances and then run off with other women are only objectifying and de-humanizing women on a whole other level.

They want to appear like they are a good guy (“Good Guy Gaslighter”) and that they take care of their “responsiblities”.

But, they are really only looking out for themselves and their own self-interests.

And, it’s very attractive to the next victim when she sees a man providing financial support for his former wife/girlfriend, don’t you think?

Manipulative men who have money are very creative with it.
They will use it to treat you like a princess, or they will use it to punish you brutally and make you feel like yesterday’s newspaper.


If this man’s finances are/were a mess, but he’s impeccable about paying you and his ex-wife, is it possible this could be part of his con?
Maybe this “impeccable” financial record with women is helping him get his foot into the door of his next victim.

Think about it, Callista. Let’s say you try to warn the next victim. He’s going to make sure she knows that he’s paying you support, and he has no idea why you are acting so “scorned”.
I bet that’s how he will play it, and you will end up looking like a jealous, scorned woman.

Or, maybe the financial support is “hush money”, to keep you quiet because he doesn’t want you talking negatively about him.

That’s why warning the next victim can be very risky, and many people with good intentions end up getting burned.

Be careful.

These are just my thoughts based on what I’ve read from your article.

~By the way, I agree with Donna. Leave him in the dust.
This guy is like a complex math problem, and there is just way too much to figure out.
With healthy men, there’s not as much to figure out because they behave appropriately.


Donna, thank you for this superb article!

The title is: “What if he says he’ll get help?”

My response is (and, I can’t help it) is: aaaaaaaaaahahahahhhahahahahhahahaha!!!!!!!!!! He’ll get help when pigs fly or if there’s something to gain – like custody of children, etc.

WONDERFUL article!!!!!



“I would NEVER entertain reconnecting with him unless he came to me and said, “I want to get evaluated and I want to come clean to you.” Without that, I wouldn’t set one foot near him. So what do I do if he DOES say that? My feeling is I wait to see what the evaluation says and how “clean” the “coming clean” truly is.”

Callista, I used to be a criminal defense attorney. I thought I had seen it all and knew it all. And I still became entangled with a sociopath. After 15 months I was ready to kill myself. Somehow I found the strength to drive him off and I have managed to rebuild my shattered life.

For the better part of our so-called “relationship” I tried to wrap my mind about what the hell was wrong with S and what I could do to “rescue” S. This was because I kept trying to win back that wonderful man I fell in love with. I looked into therapists, psychiatrists, psychologists, group therapy, organizations that provided help to ex-cons (did I mention I met him 3 weeks after he was released from prison? Silly me bought his excuse for his prison buzz cut — a trip to Hong Kong, my ass.). The only time he would throw me a crumb along the lines of “you’re right. I’m running from my problems and need to see a therapist. I’ll call right after we come back from the trip [translation: the latest trip I was paying for]. He had no intention of ever setting foot near a therapist. Hell, the night I finally sent him marching (after his landlord had changed the locks for nonpayment of rent for the prior 6 months and I refused to pony up a fourth month that year) he laced into me with “And you’re always pushing therapy. Well, one of my exes made me go to therapy. And I can tell you I got NOTHING out of it. NOTHING.”

And there I had it and there you have it. If he agrees to go to therapy, it is merely to keep you in line or to get something he wants out of you. He is perfectly satisfied with the way he is. It is you who isn’t satisfied. Sad fact is, you don’t matter one whit to him unless there is something you have that he wants you to supply him with.

As for the money, he’ll revert to form sooner or later. My ex promised to pay me the money he owed me. Yeah, right. I finally filed a 1099-C on him — he got nailed for the amount as income, and I took the tax loss. Revenge is sweet. Trust me.

My partner, a very good man, told me about a former friend of his who followed the classic pattern. He asked to borrow a small amount. My partner made him sign a note. He then repaid the loan. A few months later, a slightly larger amount. Second verse, same as the first. Then came the day he called, needing to borrow 5 grand because an “emergency” came up. My partner didn’t make him sign a note. The borrower has been unheard from ever since. So, you see, they will honor their financial obligations as long as there is something in it for them. Otherwise, forget it. In the case of both you and his ex, I suspect your state has fairly severe laws allowing garnishment of salaries and tax returns and prohibits of everything from drivers licenses to professional licenses. Otherwise, trust me, you’d be chasing him like all his other creditors.


Hi, All:

Sorry I haven’t been on recently. I’ve been swamped with work, busy moving into a new apartment and trying to finalize the sale of my place in NYC, and then had my laptop, TV and blackberry all commit suicide simultaneously. Amazing how the warranty had just ended on the computer and the blackberry. Personally, I think they had a suicide pact.

Just celebrated the 1 year anniversary with “New Guy”. Not so new anymore, huh?

For those of you who are newcomers, I am living proof that your life can change for the better. After I drove off S-ex in November, 2008, I proceeded to lose my job 3 months later and was out of work for over a year. Not exactly gold star stuff. But, I met a great guy and got my dream job. I knew that things were going well when I saw my therapist (in NYC) a few weeks back for the first time in a couple of months. He said to me “You know, you’ve never looked better and never looked happier.” And I realized he was right. So, hang in there. It will get better.

Dani S

You go Matt! well done! when you are going down the right path all you have to do is walk!!! Life just falls into place when we are doing it right! I am hoping my mojo isn’t too far down the road…

Button aaaahahhahaahhaha I am with you…. I am sure there are hundred’s of readers on LF that have been told like me..”I know i have a problem”, ” I will get help” Mine even did the desperate attempt of actually going to a therapist a couple of times, bought me flowers on the way out and told me how much he loved me…Guess what? he was my dream husband for all of what 2 minutes afterward. All apart of the con and I believe he is financially paying to look good for the next victim. I saw my ex H spath do the exact same thing but guess what? It didn’t last he decided that it is easier just to move to new area’s where no one know’s him and have no contact with any family or friends.That is so the ex’s cant dob on him and he doesn’t have to have ( in his mind ) any financial dependence anymore…
Callista the relationship is TOXIC TOXIC TOXIC!!!! start looking after yourself he will never step up to be the man you need or he occasionally claims himself to be. I know the despair and desperation you are feeling and it will not get any better until you kick that bad booty to the curb! 🙂

super chic

Matt, great advice… you have lived it and recovered…
and made a new life for yourself!!!!!!!
Not an easy thing to do!!
Really gives me hope to keep trudging along!

Calista, I agree with the advice you have
received above… and with the advice you received
from Donna, leave him in the dust.
You also can make a new, happy life for yourself!

Ox Drover

FRUSTRATION!!! Darned AT&T aircard isn’t getting squat for connection!!! UGH! So can’t even get on to read the threads with more comments.

Glad to see you Matt and congratulations for the 1 year anniversary of your relationship (and we hope the best and last!) Hope your job is continuing to go well and all that too! Hey, if a lawyer can find a nice guy, that gives the rest of us some hope, yea? LOL Sorry, I couldn’t help myself, the devil made me say it! LOL

Happiness does give us a glow about us doesn’t it!

super chic

Oxy, I have been having trouble downloading the LF pages myself,
and I have Roadrunner fast speed cable service.
Only happening on the LF site, tonight a few of the pages
wouldn’t even load up, or I had to actually WAIT for them to load…
usually it happenes instantly.

Ox Drover

I think I will e mail donna about this because it USUALLY loads, just takes a while with the amount of signal I’ve got now, but anything over about 25-30 comments and it will not down load at all on that thread. Glad to know it maybe isn’t JUST me. LOL I am getting on NYTimes sites OK which usually won’t load if connection is poor.

Well, to bed! Good night all!


Dear Callista,
There’s great advice and suggestions on here. You have the right to a life free of constant confusion, worry and pain. Donna is right; leave him in the dust! I also went through a phase where I can say I had one foot in reality and the other in illusion because my ex kept trying to pull me back into his games. It didn’t last long, but it was horrible to go through. My ex had plenty of chances to get help. In fact, he was ORDERED at one time to get help. He’s been in institutions and has had the best mental help one could have through the years. It made not ONE bit of difference. He is still the same person who keeps doing what he’s doing, just with different people.

Congrats and you rock! I had not known your story until you shared a bit today and I am SO happy that you are where you are today. It’s a ray of hope for so many of us who are still in the healing stages. It’s good to know one CAN come through this and be the better for it. You’re proof of that and I can carry your story in my mind to remind me that yes, someday it will happen for me again, just with a healthy person.
What you said to Callista was right on the money. Good insight!

Buttons, no pigs flying in my hometown yet! I thought the exact same thing when I read the title…yeah, when monkeys come out of my a**! And THAT hasn’t happened either! Need I say more??? *grin*

Callista, I hope you keep coming back. LF is a place to heal where others truly understand you and what you’re going through. And honey, leave him in that dust NOW.


Another great one;

First, I think his timely support payments are merely a form of control. He keeps his x-wives on the hook as back-ups. My guess is that informally, he is taking care of some girlfriends too, a la Tiger Woods. Since he is continually cheating, you have the security of the old plus the excitement of the new conquest.

“Some sociopaths do understand that they’re missing something in human interactions…”

I could not agree more. I was told “it takes time for me to warm-up to people…”


Great article…and Callista, I understand where you are with this, I’ve been there too and even though I’m happily divorced and have moved on to a better life (and a wonderfully normal relationship), I still catch myself wondering if I misjudged the ex when I remember some nice or good thing he did: how well he treated our dog, bought flowers for my mom, or “was being better”…etc. In fact, in many ways he was “better” for the last five years we were together, which made things all the more confusing. Better does not necessarily mean healthy however.

When you stop looking at the trees and look at the whole forest, the reality is there, and you realize how many of those kind acts were self serving and calculated (mostly for NS–a generous act, “publicized” in a seemingly offhand way, is always great for that. And the timely payments may fall into that category).

It was only in hindsight, and with the help of a good therapist and friends, that I could see what was really at work. You are getting it, so please keep coming here and reading and gathering strength and knowledge.

If he’s still getting at least some of what he wants from you…he’ll say or do what he thinks you want to hear. My ex swore he’d get into therapy, and did go for one appointment. When I told him I wasn’t changing my mind about leaving he quit, said I was the one with the problem and he, being so much more spiritually and emotionally advanced than I, didn’t need that. The problem will never be his, in his mind. These folks are about a millimeter deep. Actually at some point it actually became funny to watch him try all the different angles to get me back (to no avail). I was waiting for him to pull out the “I’m seriously ill with some vague but grave symptoms” but he’d already used that one to get out of hot water earlier in our relationship.

Hang in there and be strong, you deserve so much more than this. Life does not have to be this confusing and it is so beautiful to be free of all that drama.



Great article – and good points – and MATT! Suicidal equipment = either pay off date or warranty expired last month. Glad to see you back – YAY!



Tah!…dah! Maybe now he has something new to think about…another great pity excuse to add to what is likely an already long list. You might have suggested an additional reason to not be held responsible for his actions…and he jumped on it! He responded “It’s not my fault”. It’s not his fault that he lies, cheats, and is a womanizer. (It’s the excuse, not the abuser, that is the selfish trouble maker. Maybe he’s really not the bad guy…everyone should understand that he’s a helpless victim too…”The devil made him do it!”)

My P will NEVER accept responsibility for anything, unless, of course, it’s deemed to be good! If he “errors”, 99%+ of the time it’s because he followed bad information based upon someone or something else. So, he never feels the need to apologize.

You might want to think about how P’s use their twisted, faulty reasoning to con others and protect their own self love. How has his history been when it comes to actually telling the truth? Can you really believe he is sincere…or is this one of the patterns he uses to get control over you?

Think before you accept a liars words.


I want to start by thanking Donna. I swear I feel this site saved my life. I have now spent hours pouring over all of the amazing articles. As you know from the article, I have been traveling. When I am settled in, I will tell my story, in hopes that someone else will read it and identify with what I went through and be inspired to do what it takes. My shock was in that I thought I had moved on. I truly did not feel I loved this man. But the night he came over and we sat and talked, was like going back to when we began. It was like falling in love with him all over again and of course he said he felt feelings for me again and that we should “dabble”. Yup “dabble” means that he wants to come over and have his fantasy with me, while his new victim is thinking he’s over “helping his mother”. I’m sure she thinks she’s found the love of her life, not realizing this man has already cheating on her. And knowing “C”, he has likely already cheated on her with someone other than me. Anyhow, thank you Donna and YOU ALL for your kind words of support and your willingness to share your own experiences. Isn’t the internet an amazing thing!


What if he says he’ll get help? Ha, that’s one of their best tactics! Mine was in “therapy” for 20 years. He could always tell the woman du jour how he was in therapy and trying to better himself, AND he had the added benefit of picking a psychologist’s brain, to learn what appropriate behavior is, looks like, and sounds like. Therapy helped him MASTER his performance.



“What’s real? What’s not real? Based on what I have read, I have to conclude that the entire exchange is ENTIRELY false.”
–>Take everything as false, and start to heal from that point.

“Why couldn’t he have just been a jerk and denied it and argued with me. No he said the only that would not allow me to truly disconnect from him.”
–>Yes, he realizes you could disengage from him and it would be “all his fault” for the relationship ending. An “argument” takes two (give and take), therefore, he can’t argue; what he can do is dictate, order-around, control, and take what is in it for him, but not “give.” Providing financial support is not “giving” because there is something in it for him, such as control, a reason to see you whenever he wishes. Yes, giving is generally reciprocal, and in the case of a sociopath, he is the only one who winds up benefitting when he gives, not the receiver.

“What if he comes to me and says he’ll get help?”
–>He is lying! He will use this to get back into your life, in some way that is meaningful to you, then dump you big time, perhaps even have enough of a “reason” to stop the financial support. His version of “help” and yours hold two different meanings.

Ox Drover

Firefly, you are so right there, sweetie! What is real? NOTHING!

Callista, glad you are doing better and that things are going better for you, it takes TIME and some things cannot be rushed. You can’t get a baby in one month by getting 9 women pregnant, and you can’t heal in a month either! It takes TIME to mature in us and we have to take it in “one bite at a time” and DIGEST each bite into part of ourselves before it becomes US. It works, but it is a slow process and some “meals” don’t sit well with us on a a particular day, or we have to do it over! But we get there, so just stay on the road and walk toward the light! (((hugs))))


We tried to warn the entire city! Here is an article that was written about the sociopath I was involved with. We were nervous about doing the article, but it has saved several women from falling into what we call “the Bill coma”. We even managed to get him kicked off a major dating website; which was a very lucrative avenue for him to find unsuspecting victims. For us, it was worth the risk!


“Operation Cock Block!” OMG that totally made my day! Right ON, sister!!!!!!!

Twice Betrayed

Head injury, smead injury! Mine said the same thing. Wrecked his bike when he was a kid, hit his head on a curb, lost his sight and had to use his foot as a guide to get himself home. BLEH! Ok, head injury made my X a psychopath. What about his sister, two brothers and a dad who were all P’s? Did they all have head injuries???? For me, I ain’t buying!

Mine had countless affairs. When totally busted, no way out- He came clean and said he needed help and I was the ONLY one that could help him. I tried my best since he was admitting and wanting to get some actual help after 25 years! Ok, off we go to the Doc. Gets on meds, counseling. ‘Shows’ improvement. Guess where we are in a year? He’s lying, deceiving and CHEATING again! Might as well have been trying to turn the grass purple. Talk about futile! It’s just amazing to me how alike these P’s tool boxes are. Their scripts are all alike in varying degrees. As far as warning the current poor victim, I’ve not had/nor seen any success with that, except in in hindsight on the victim. They just do not usually believe the X’s. And don’t forget how skillful the P is with the spin-always a ready answer! And sex is the drug of choice they use on you=hooked. Run, don’t walk and don’t look back…..get out fast as you can with what you can salvage of yourself so you can begin putting YOURSELF back together!!!!!

Ox Drover


THAT IS GREAT!!!!! WAY TO GO!!!! I have actually read tht article before, can’t remember where or when (CRS!) but have seen it before.

I think that is great and should HELP keep women from falling for him for sure, but he will never ever quit trying! Look at James Montgomery, Donna Andersen’s X, that creep has been exposed world wide and is still trying to con people!

I’m sure that outing someone this completely must be satisfying to a great degree, but they are NOT going to quit. I DO hope though that it will save a few women from getting scammed.



The spath I knew’s final ‘swan song’ was that he was going Bli-hi-hi-hind! Intimated it was BECAUSE of physical abuse from his ex wife!:D x …Still managing to access the internet though… must have a brail monitor?;)x


I hear bli-hi-hi-hindness is caused by too much masterbation…..
NOT ex wives!

Twice Betrayed

EB: bwaahahahahahaha!!


My story is identical to all of these stories – you’re so right that they have exactly the same toolbox!! Wish I had listened to my daughter who told me, two months into the marriage, that I should cut my losses and leave!!! It was Jan. ’07 when my new husband announced that he hadn’t paid federal or state taxes since 2003, for the purpose of defrauding his ex-wife out of her share of the refund….of course, you guessed it, there was way more in taxes, penalties and fees than refund coming!! He forged her name to a refund check from a federal tax return…..after I insisted he do the 1040s for those years immediately….and later, when the IRS audited his taxes for ’06 and ’07, I found out he was still married to her, which of course he denied knowing about!! They do these horrendous things because they can!!! I’m facing a lawsuit because he “accidentally” set our home on fire (we were renting prior to the closing and the homeowner didn’t have insurance…) and the saga goes on, just like yours. He had the marriage annulled and the courts let the bigamist go scott free with almost all my savings which he promised to repay and even the 401K that was accumulated during the marriage!! It’s LEGAL ABUSE SYNDROME here.
If it weren’t for you all and the good Lord, I’d have lost my mind completely through this ordeal. A very warm thanks to every one of you who have opened your lives and hearts to each other and to me! Love you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It always breaks my heart to see another ‘one’ who has been taken.
There IS life after spathhood,and you are seeking answers and information which will allow you to be safe in the future.

You’ve got a wise Daughter……don’t beat yourself up… was all part of his design for you…..
YOU were targeted!

There are lessons in this for ALL OF US……thank you for sharing your story. I hope you stick around and take whatever will help you for your future here.

Welcome to LF….there is a reason you found us!!!



Hi Matt! 🙂

It’s good to see you online.


{{{SunnyCare}}} Bless your heart. They do operate in an almost identical mode, and it never alters from victim to victim.

Here, you’re safe. Here, you can learn things that will help keep your feet on your healing path.

Brightest blessings.



What started the ball rolling for me (last spring), causing me to discover what kind of a person I was married to was due to notices that I received about unpaid taxes (federal and state). Grrr. I am resolving this tax situation myself, no help from the h-spath. When it comes to the h-spath that I married, I learned that I cannot trust him, period. I am sorry that your spouse took full advantage of you. It stinks.

Ox Drover

Dear SunnyCare,

Welcome, sweetie and I am sooooo sorry you qualify for our “club”—unfortunately we are not really very “exclusive” a LOT of smart women and men belong to this one! ((((Hugs)))) and welcome!


SAys he’ll get help – how many times did I hear that??? And no nothing ever changed.

I agree with you Rosa that men who take care of financial aspects can be just as piggy as those who are irresponsible with money


someone who consistently shows no restraint with money brings a level of pain and anxiety into the relationship that I cannot even explain. It dictates every aspect of your life and you end up constantly on edge wondering who or what company you will be in trouble with this week. My ex was awful with money – no restraint over his spending impulses at all. He could blow hundreds a week on nothing in particular and have nothing at all to show for it. Bills were totally unimportant to him as was having any kind of backstop should it be needed for a rainy day sometime in the future. It was a life of hell and I’m still recovering from it now.

Ox Drover

EB, I can’t get back on that thread I posted to you on before and it only has 1-2 more posts than this thread, so I could only read the first few words of your post, you said “actually Oxy I’m not…” and I assume you meant NOT crazy, and you know I’ve known you for a long time, and I know you are as crazy as a bessie bug as my grandpa would have said! But that’s one of your more endearing charms! LOL hee hee bwahhhhhhhh! this computer carp is so frustrating to me I am about to scream. If it is not better by the time I go to town again, I am going to change carriers. Haven’t re –upped with AT&T Contract so will go to verizon which I think will be better, BUT it has a LIMIT on how much you can down load and the AT&T doesn’t but I don’t down load movies or anything so I shouldn’t have a problem. NO LIMIT doesn’t help if you can’t log on so pith on AT&T! Rotten service in my humble opinion!


A warning from you will likely be seen as a sign that you’re crazy!
The P has probably already brainwashed the new GF to ignore warnings from past scorned victims.

Perhaps he’s told her something like: “She tells lies about me because she’s still angry that I left her. Some of her friends have told me that she she wants me back, but that’s never going to happen. Even her best friends think she’s crazy! Most people are too smart to to fall for the garbage she says about me. She needs professional help. In fact, you should try to stay away from her. There’s no telling what that nut case might say or do when she finds out that we’re seeing each other”.

Talk about being crazy… my P brainwashed me to believe that others would lie to me if I asked them questions about him.


I said…I’m not crazy….I’m mentally ill!
According to spath.


(EB I just saw your post:D – yes That’s what I thought too…:0x anyway – kicking that fooker out of my head for tonight – Have too much else to think about!x ((Loves)) EB.xxxBlue.x


Can you help? He’s smearing me in a discovery doc. to my lawyere. It’s mortifying.
Please see my post in

Do I tell my lawyer it’s slander and it shouldn’t be allowed in a legal document as it’s a lie? Isn’t slander illegal? What do I do? It’s so offensive.

Also he’s manipulating the child to live with him so he can have the house and collect c.s. from me. I can’t tell her how to decide, but how do I address this with lawyer?

I fear this is just the beginning of his nasty “scorched earth” nasty nasty destruction since he can’t own me.


Gotcha over on the other thread….see my reply there!



Donna: “Regardless of the degree of his pathhology, or whether there is a chance for him to improve, for you he is bad news. Leave him in the dust.”

I agree…BUT …when my therapist said that to me, part of me said “what do you mean “for YOU” he is bad news. Does that mean that for someone else he would not be bad news. Let me change into her! I can do this! ” In other words that “for you” part made me think I was part of the problem, and with someone else, he would not be bad news.

I think what it means is that I have the traits he can twist…whereas a woman with a high sense of entitlement for example, or someone who is on to these games and not already addicted, could deal with him without getting addicted.
Is that correct?

Personally, what I think it is right to say, is even if he improves, it is going to take forever, there will be much backsliding, and the odds are way against him maintaining the change, and YOU deserve better. He is bad news for EVERYONE.


Since your therapist is dealing with YOU as a client….its not up to them to ‘see’ another relationship….YOUR the client, YOUR the here and now.

Your last paragraph is straight on…..You deserve better….YOU are NOT going to change HIM…..NO-ONE will!!!

Yes dear….leave himin the dust!!!


Hi all,

Sorry I haven’t been online lately. I just moved and got hooked back up to the net. I still have had no contact with my ex spath. (just about 2 months now) The story above, as so many of these stories, reminds me so much of my situation and helps me to remember that staying no contact is the best. It would be nice to warn others in the S’s path, but, looking back, I didn’t even listen to the warnings. When I confronted him about emails I got, etc…well…guess what? They were (he said) just obsessed with him. That’s one of the reasons I have stayed no contact also, I don’t want to be unknowingly accused of being obsessed with him, as he has said this about so many others. I think he does this to try and make himself look better and thinking back, he never encouraged friendship among any of the women…I mean…after all, what if they started comparing notes…that would ruin his game.

It’s good to be back here. I love this site. I’m still laughing so hard, to the point of tears, at the above comment:
blueskies says:

The spath I knew’s final ‘swan song’ was that he was going Bli-hi-hi-hind! Intimated it was BECAUSE of physical abuse from his ex wife!:D x ”Still managing to access the internet though” must have a brail monitor?;)x

Thank you blueskies….I really needed a good laugh tonight and that is absolutely hilarious!!! LOL


Good to see you back.
Glad to hear your getting settled in a ‘life of your own’.
Your on the right path!

keep laughing girl…..keep laughing!


Sorry all about the episode of madness,

My blog was taken down, coz I can’t put my S’s name on the url. But he approached me and admitted to what he has done. He told me to give him time to do what’s right.

I told him that there’s no need to return me the money, just get out of my life, as I don’t want to be married to him anymore.

He is extremely sweet now, telling me I deserve better. I agreed. I am not falling for this trap again. The last time he came back, he took more money from me. Not this time. I am extremely cold towards him now.

So Donna is right, they play this kind of game and they are good at it. I was tricked twice by my S.

My friend said I have co dependency issue, that I am always trying to fix everything. It seems like I keep meeting all these guys that needed fixing. Was it me? or was it them? that need fixing? How do I get out of this cycle?

Any advise would be helpful.

Thanks all.


It’s them seeking out our weeknesses… a heat seeking missile.

It’s up to US to work on our weaknesses and not be vulneralbe.
It’s a decision we mustmake!

I think remaining ALONE during this healine time… 2 years or even more…..concentrating on US and NO ONE ELSE will provide us an opportunity to ‘see’ what we have been doing wrong, what we have been attracting in others towards us….UNHEATHLY.

Get your divorce….and don’t count on anything from him….he’s a spathy creep and tha’ts all he’s gonna amount to regardless of what he ‘says’……..actions/words………

Good luck no life!


Nolife: I know that cycle well. We try to fix things. I tried to fix things for someone for 5 years. The thing with sociopaths, that I learned here, is, they cannot be fixed. We suck into their sick games, we pay their rent, we feel sorry for every pathetic bad run of luck that has crossed their path, but are they thankful? No, they forget that we tried to help them. Why? Because they have no conscience…and no remorse or regret for treating us like dirt. They are not capable of those feelings…they only know what they need and who to run to in order to get it, beyond that we mean nothing to them. We take their words and promises to heart, but anything they may say or might have said, to get what they want, is quickly forgotten by them. It’s how their brain works and they target good people and mess us up. Stay on this site and stay no contact with him…he will only bring more pain. Best of luck.


EB & Heartsick………spot-on.

And, Nolife, trying to figure out why they do what they do, or trying to “understand” what caused them to be spaths is an excersise in futility. There’s no single cause, there’s no single reason, and they are what they are.

Remaining NO CONTACT is priceless beyond description. After 4 months of NC, we begin to clearly see how their manipulations worked.

Brightest blessings!!!!



The “evil one” was always meticulous with money, in fact, that was one of the ways he made me feel like I somehow wasn’t enough. He loves animals. He pursued me for months after the breakup, until I told him the it wasn’t what God wanted for me. (He knew I was serious about my faith again at this point).

At the time, I had pushed all the bad things that had happened into the back of my mind, and I almost gave him a chance after he “made an effort” and said he had become a Christian. By the way, my sister, her husband, and many of my friends were in church the day this so-called conversion happened. Yet there was this part of me that knew, six years of dealing with all of this would never go away, even if he had changed. I preferred to forget all the awful things he had said, and the way he had treated me, and move on, pretending he had changed, but that things just weren’t ever going to be right.

Fast forward to three years later. I married the love of my life who I met a year after “the break-up”. I get an email from “the evil one’s” current girlfriend, someone who is also fairly unhealthy herself (that’s another crazy story) telling me that she is disgusted and would never have dated him had she known what he was really like.

Apparently he had kept a tape that we made early on in our relationship. Something I had asked him to destroy within a month of it being taken. Yet another thing I felt I had been bullied into doing to prove myself to him. I don’t know why, but I gave her my phone number. Part of me wishes I hadn’t, because sometimes you just need to leave the whole mess behind.

She called me and told me that he owed her close to 20,000 dollars, and he owed a friend of his family’s the same amount. They owned a townhome together, and he wasn’t able to put much of anything into it because of spending all his money on cars and all his time on online computer games. She had found this video on a removable drive in a drawer right next to his computer.

This is the same guy who I actually accounted for teaching me how to always pay off my credit cards completely every month. This is the guy who was so cheap, he wouldn’t go out to dinner or a movie with me more than once every few months unless I paid.

Some of the things she told me were a bit more familiar. He was forging documents for people (he has a graphic design degree and is pretty brilliant at it). He hadn’t forged any documents when with me, but had forged tax stamps to use in his job. He had stolen random items from places such a IKEA, much to my mortification. He made fun of me for being embarrassed about it. He was constantly on the online game that unfortunately, I introduced him to.

I received an email from him telling me that he was sorry that she was bothering me like this. She was kind of crazy (what he had always told me before we broke up) and manipulative. “You just don’t know her.”

In the time period after we talked, I found Lovefraud and some other sites and thought maybe this fit him. I told her about it and told her that he would try to get her back. She said, I don’t think so. I said, he will. That is his MO.

Apparently she forwarded some of the emails I had written talking about even more issues I had had with him, such as the verbal and emotional abuse.

Then all of a sudden she wrote this nasty email condemning both of us and saying she was above all this and we were both disgusting.

So much for trying to help. All this time, I felt that I needed to tell my husband about the video recording, and did. He was shaken by the whole thing, but supported me to no end. Love this man!

The next day I got an email from the “evil one”. It was scattered and very nasty. Some choice quotes “I am sick of the two of you facing us” huh? Which two facing who? “Frankly you are retarded” Wow that really hurts, not!
He proceeds to say the issues that he and his current gf face are a fraction of what we faced. Glad you’re admitting it dude.

He copied and pasted in the email that he wrote to his gf trying to debunk me. He quotes me and then several times says, “did she tell you ….” and “I bet she didn’t” about things I had already relayed to her. I am honest … very, very honest. Apparently that was forgotten in the tirade.
He makes comments on the long distance relationship I had soon after I broke things off. Makes fun of me. Sure that will win her back.
He makes fun of my saying that it is almost like he brainwashed me about so many things. He brings up my former church that was also a bad experience and basically says, “that was brainwashing, I don’t brainwash”.
He tells her that he had a thing for one of my friends and tried to flirt with her (to no avail) directly in front of my and “So there you go, another reason why she hates me so much.”
And then he goes with the big guns “So I dont have much more to say about this matter. Like I said, dont believe everything that [she] is telling you. Most of it is the truth and most of it is kinda bs or shes not telling you the whole store. Shes phrasing everything to make it look like im this complete jerkoff. I admitted to both of you, I was an asshole and didnt treat her right. She can hate me all she want. I know I didnt respect her. She knew I had something for you the whole time.”
Yeah, that’s a winner.
“I know shes bitter because we have such an awesome cat and dog and thats something she wanted, unlike [the cat I currently have with me]”
He couldn’t stand my cat (which was originally his/ours) because this is an independent cat that doesn’t always do what he wants him to do.
He keeps telling her that I am jealous because of their history and I quote, “And for her? “I met my husband on”, lol. More reasons for her to hate me.”
Intriguing because that is one of my favorite stories to tell! I love the fact that I met my wonderful husband that way.

And about those videos? “Trust me, she shouldnt be flattered in any way that I kept the videos. They were pretty gay and you shouldnt think that I watch them all the time, because theyre gay and lame.”

Note the line “you shouldn’t think that I watch them all the time” ugh, I throw up in my mouth just reading that again. It makes me sick!

Let’s just say that the email doesn’t end on a better note.

About a month later, I get an email telling me that he’s changed, never apologizes though. It is almost like he is trying to use me as some kind of proving ground. He tells me how he’s quit the game, the porn, etc. He’s trying to work things out with his gf. He tells me how proud he is of himself and how this was a “blessing in disguise”.

I think I’ve heard all this before, and the only disguise is the one he is putting on for the girl who went back to him. He was so good at pulling out all the stops, but only when things go to the dogs. So as you see, three years later, things can surface. I changed my phone number, blocked him from my emails and social networking accounts.

At this point, I firmly believe he is somewhere in the SP family. Sometimes these things just take time to show up. Just because there is a lull (I experienced many such lulls during our six year relationship) doesn’t mean that it isn’t still there, just waiting to bust out and slam you in the back.

I love all of you Lovefraud for helping me to work through this anger and trauma.

Twice Betrayed

Hey Ladies! I watched a funny movie again [last night] that I had forgotten about. Go watch it for a really funny, good time relating to what we’ve been thru regarding these types of males.

The 1st Wives Club starring Diane Keaton, Bette Midler and Goldie Hawn. Just a roaring good time with an all star cast! FUN!


TB….I LOVE that movie!!!!

Ivana Trump: Ladies….don’t get even….get EVERYTHING!!!!

There is Power in numbers!!!! Love the teamwork!

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