By | December 14, 2014 2,124 Comments

He makes me believe the lies and sucks me into the drama

Spath TalesEditor’s Note: This SPATH Tale was submitted by the Lovefraud reader who posts by the name “stronginthecity.”

I am currently in a relationship with a sociopath. I’ve been with him since June 2013. I was with him before. That relationship ended in 2006, leaving me jobless and depressed because he left the relationship abruptly and literally disappeared.

I am a medical professional, so I am the typical target I guess.

He resurfaced last year proclaiming his love for me and how much he missed me — giving three or four reasons, explanations why he left. I kept tabs on him through the years from time to time and found out he was in prison in 2009 for drug charges.

He is a constant liar and manipulator and we had a “chance” meeting in a drugstore parking lot where I had never been before in February 2013.

Again he disappeared then reappeared around May 2013. I saw him drive past my house many times. He never tried to contact me until June of 2013 when he got my phone number from a mutual friend.

I had just started dating again and was on a first date with a man when he called me. The calls were blocked and I didn’t listen to the messages until the next day.

He said that he was at a street festival and “why don’t you answer your phone” and “you should meet me”. I didn’t even know it was him. I had an idea but wasn’t sure.

A few weeks later, exactly the time I was leaving for work, he called again from a blocked number and I answered. It was him telling me he was working in my state, when he was really 2,000 miles away with his wife and children, saying he wanted to meet me for dinner. I agreed to meet him and before I knew it I was in deep again.

He actually did get divorced from his wife, but now the wife has moved to my area and things are again in the crazy stage. I have caught him in numerous lies and am certain he has cheated multiple times but I never actually caught him.

I have been back and forth trying to establish no contact but somehow I always end up back with him as he makes me believe the lies and sucks me into the drama. He loves me. I am the only one yet other women, who he claims are friends call his phone.

I also believe he has made copies of my house keys and comes into my house when I am at work.

He has not held down any steady job since June 2013, thank goodness I am full time employed but he knows my work schedule and keeps tabs on me. He tells me I am crazy when I question the nonsense. He lies about his whereabouts and actually gives me “clues” just to make me jealous. I am at wits end right now as he is trying to wiggle his way back into my life.

The last time I saw him was Halloween weekend, after an argument again about his whereabouts.

I need help to maintain no contact as he is texting me with the, “I’m a good guy story, I miss you” again. Of course we have an incredible sexual relationship and he swears he does not want anyone else, and has not been with another woman since June 2013.

My gut is telling me he is lying and I know I am right.

Unfortunately, I had a setback and saw him last weekend and during this week. Thank goodness he had a trip planned during our no contact and I am glad he is gone as I found myself making life plans with this man again.

He has been on his best behavior since I agreed to see him Saturday night. He spent the night Saturday and Sunday. He went to work Monday and Tuesday night and came over again making me dinner, flowers, my favorite wine and worked on my house. The whole nine yards. He left Thursday morning because he wanted to see his kids that he has not seen in over a year.

I am glad he is there as I need this time to regroup and make sense, crazy sense of this entire situation. I will continue to post and read on your Lovefraud because it’s so helpful to me. I know that I need to stay away from this man ”¦ he was talking about getting married again. He said lets write up a prenup and get married because he loves me, blah blah blah.


I left him alone in my home again. I need to end this once and for all.


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Wow what a scary nightmare you are enduring, Hugs to you!! You are at the right place for support and guidance. The most important thing to know is you are not alone…sociopaths isolate their victims so keep reaching out for help not only here at Lovefraud but also your local domestic abuse center and the National domestic violence hotline in the USA the number is 800-799-SAFE 24/7 365 days a year. If you are not in the USA then just google National domestic violence hotline for your countries number. Do not tell him you talk to a domestic abuse counselor or about lovefraud but tell your trusted friends and family. This is for your safety.

Your post is very scary and you are in danger with this guy. The fact that you state “I also believe he has made copies of my house keys and comes into my house when I am at work” that he calls you and knows where you are and knows when you leave work send the hair on the back of my neck straight up. His behavior is down right SCARY and he is a stalker.

Is it possible that he is tracking you with gps via your phone? Most phone companies these days have a gps phone tracking program that is about $5 per month if you set it up via your phone account over the net. The original purpose of the phone companies offering this gps tracking was for parents to track their kids. I dont think it is at all coincidental that he is showing up where you are not with a sociopath. Call your phone company to see if this gps tracking program has been set up on your phone and if this is the case call the police asap and get a restraining order. Or maybe he is tracking you by a car gps tracking device he has placed on your car? Or has in installed a gps tracking app on your phone?

I would also suggest you get a copy of his divorce papers through the court his wife filed because his ex wife clearly had enough of his sociopathic behavior to divorce him so she might have listed info in the divorce court paper about his behavior that will help you see more into his sociopathic behavior which will open your mind up from all of his brain washing he has done with his pathological lying.

Breaking the emotional bond a sociopath has created with his lies and love bombing is not easy. The No contact rule IS the ONLY way though to get them out of your life and to have a peaceful and calm life. Following the no contact rule is not easy but it is essential. The best advise on following the No contact rule is to read, read, read everything you can get your hands on about sociopathic behavior and related it to his behavior. When you are sad read, when you are angry with him read, when he does something that scares you read…read everything every time he does something. Also Donna Andrrson of Lovefraud has a life couch service where to can talk with her one on one she can help guide you to open up your mind.

Remember the sociopath literally mind control and brain wash their victims YES this guy is brain washing and mind controlling you with his words EXACTLY like a cult leader does to his follower so you must block him and deprogram you mind from his brain washing. This is why it is important to keep reading and educating yourself on his behavior. When you feel the urge to call him come to lovefraud and read, read, read until you no longer have that urge to contact him.

Clearly phone blocking him is not working he calls with a blocked number so you need to literally change your phone number and make sure you only give your new number to your most trusted friends/family and tell them what is going on and not to ever give him your new phone number. Change your email account too and close your old one.

As for your home safety…change you locks immediately! You can go to a big hardware store and get new locks and install them yourself or with a help of a friend/family member or bring your locks tumblers to a lock store to change them for others verse paying a high price for a lock smith to come to your home and change them.

Also install a none hardwire security system asap…if you are in the USA stores like Homedepot and Lowes have inexpensive security systems that use batteries vs hardwiring them. See their websites on their security systems they run about $15 per door or $100 for a full system. But in your case it might be wise to pay a month security service to install a security system that way they call the home if the alarm goes off you can advise them that only you should be answering the phone no males in the home. Do not tell this guy you are installing a security system for your safely he may talk you out of it or break the security system. Plus give your neighbors his car and license description and asks them to cal the police if they see his care in your neighborhood.

ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS Follow your gut!! Your gut is screaming this sociopath is a very bad person listen to your gut it will never steer you in the wrong direction. Google “Oprah Gavin Debecker you tube” to listen to their interview on following your gut. Gavin Debecker is the author of “Gift of Fear…a must read book for every woman on this planet.

Other books to read to open your mind up from his brain washing/mind control:

Lovefraud by Donna Anderson (plus her other books see the list on this site)

The sociopath next door by Dr Martha Stout (this one you can listen to the audio version for free on you tube)

Woman who love psychopaths by Sandra Brown (must read)

Why does he do that? By Lundy Bancroft

others sites: Psychopathyawareness. wordpress, psychopathfree, after narcissist abuse.

YOU can break free from this sociopath you just have to work hard at the no contact rule.

Wishing you all the best!


Thank you for your response…
I have read it and all of the others several times already and am literally sick to my stomach as I have been trying to make sense all of of this while he is away.
His ex wife does have a restraining order written into the divorce papers.
He is coming back to town tomorrow…I made plans to see him. It’s Christmas and of course he needs to be with me.
I really do not want to see him…he talked me into it. I still have time to back out.
He is very good at convincing me that he has changed…I know he has not.
I was hoping he would stay in the state where his children are…far far away.


Thank you again Jan7, I refer to this reply pretty much every weekend.
It has been a life saver to me.
I am still recovering but spending a lot of time alone and don’t know if this is good or bad.
I’m doing what my heart tells me, and that is to be alone right now.
I’m trusting my heart now and forever.
I wish I had done that before.
I always told him my intuition was telling me that he was lying to me..he would tell me that my woman’s intuition is broken..clearly it’s not.


Can you please reach out to kittylover?
She posted a comment today, last in this this thread.
She took her spath back and let him move in.
She got a pocket dialed call aka butt dialed call from him while he was in bed with another woman professing his love for her.
My heart is breaking right now.


Stronginthecity, yes, thank you for looking out for kittylover. So much strength & support for all of us here…what the sociopaths do not count on is all the victims joining forces to lift each other up!


Thanks for the quick reply. My heart is breaking and I am downright pissed off right now.
I made a bad decision this week and saw my expath when I was vulnerable and feeling terrible about the passing of my daughters grandmother.
Of coarse he agreed to see me. We had lunch and took a walk…talked about everything and was on his best spath behavior.
It did not take long for me to see the crazy happening before my eyes. Yes, he spent the night, I went to work he went sleep no doubt. I had dinner with him Thursday and he tried to start again making plans for our future…he has it all planned out.
Since he is enjoying his SSI payments and has no intention of working, apartment lease up in June..the new plan is to move back to the state where his kids and the rest of his family live and buy a house there..and now he wants me to come with him.
I should rent my house here and move down there with him and he will take care of me. ok….BIG EYE ROLL.
I could not sleep last night, he was not here. I never have trouble mind was racing out of control.
We had not seen each other in 3 months and he just thinks that he can just roll right into my life again. NO! Not going to happen.
The reason I couldn’t sleep was sub conscious telling me RUN, do not even listen to a word of his lying nonsense.
I have not come this far to throw it all away for a broke down, broke ass manipulating liar.
Seeing him for me was good. All these months of missing him…missing what.
A man that crumbled me up like a piece of trash and just threw me away years ago.
I took him back before because I was not educated but now I am and I feel much stronger.


Stronginthecity, you have been through so much these last few months the good news is you know you are vulnerable and you also see right through his con game. That is progress! Day one NO contact starts today 😉 again (it’s ok to start over again!)

They are so good at running their con game. When I found out about the 3 women that my ex h was cheating with I served him divorce papers. He sent me a email stating “I thought we were going to work things out”…WHAT!?! there is nothing to work out when he had a two year affair begged me to stay and now is caught cheating with three different women in two different states!!

For me I packed up and drove across country to get away from him. He tried to rope me back in with we “need to talk about the divorce” or “Im injured can you call me”…NOPE I do not want to talk with you!! After 12 years…yes 12 longgggggggggggggggg years I finally with the help of a counselor who told me who he was & sites like lovefraud I was done!! I knew who he was…yes I wanted the “good guy” back the guy that we had “fun together” but the more I read & learned about sociopaths and really truly analyzed our relationship I realized there were no good times, there was no good guy mixed with the evil guy nope he was pure evil every second of the day I was just choosing to turn my head with his manipulation and because I was so exhausted mentally, emotionally & physically that I just wanted some type of peace.

The reality is you never will have peace with a sociopath…nope you jump on the roller coaster ride everyday, every hour every second.

Stronginthecity, take this time to write down his manipulative game he did these last few days and write down how you felt at the end of those days. Then when you have doubt about him pull that sheet of paper out and read what you feel know.

You are going to break away from him for good. You see who he really is and you see why you called him…huge enlightenment…you are breaking free from his grip.


I finally understand the importance of journaling.
Yes I felt like documenting here was enough but no.
You must write it down in the moment when the crazy shit is going down along with how the abuse made you feel.
Word for word what was said including conversation leading up to the crazy behavior.
It was one thing I didn’t do and wish I had.


PS…Keep a journal with dates, times, innocents that occur with this guy and ask a family member to do the same as you will be able to use this info to get a restraining order against him.

jenni marie


LF buddie, I’m feeling straight forward tonight and I just wanted to try and save you from becoming depressed again over a man like that….please, Run.

Run!! Run back to the life you had without a sociopath in it, if you don’t mind me sayin’ what you are probably thinking yourself.

He isn’t worth the heartache and emotional roller coaster ride that comes with him.

You, nor I need to support them financially, even if it’s supplying dinner a few nights a week. Who do they think they are? They are adults whether they behave like one or not.

Please don’t go backward in your life’s time-line….He’ll be fine, so don’t worry about him.

Miss the sex? Me too. But he still isn’t worth the risk.

He is trying to trick you and you know it. You know what to look for and why should you have to be looking for crap? Look for peace, and it’s not going to be with him.

I am not only writing this to you, I am doing my best to tell myself the same stuff, and I have to admit that I have been trying to get away and keep him away for 4 years.

I must have broke it off with him fifteen times before. He comes back. I would fall for his pretend niceness. Each time he came back though, we didn’t talk about what broke us up. Well ‘nice’ didn’t last long. Usually only 3 days and then he would start to turn into that moody rude snarky faced grouch on my couch.

For me, this time, it’s been 11 days no contact.

The longest he has stayed away is 31 days.
Eleven days ago, I said the words to him, that I have known for months and months. I didn’t want to say them to his face, because I didn’t want to see his face AND hear his reaction, so I left him a voice mail that I don’t love him anymore (not that he gives a damn) to which he left me the voice mail I anticipated with him blaming me for not loving him anymore because I don’t care, I never tried, I didn’t listen to him, I didn’t respect his opinions, he should have known I didn’t want to be with him…blah blah blah.

I know better, and him throwing blame on me was something I expected. I tried for over 4 years to talk some sense into his sneaky bad self to no avail. He is one of those people that uses diversion and interruption during a conversation, so the original topic of his rotten behavior was lost into oblivion…..and besides it was mostly him talking and then yelling and ranting. Nothing was ever his fault. I’m in some weird semi-breakup shock, but I’ve done the first 30 days of no contact about 6 times already now and it didn’t kill me, so this last one won’t kill me either, lol. I’m going to ignore him if he shows up and rings my doorbell and I’ve blocked his number so he can’t call me. I warned him last time that he better not make any more antagonistic rude snide comments or we were through. I meant it. 11 days ago he made his last rude abusive comment and I asked him to leave.

stronginthecity LF buddie, Let’s run far away and stay away from these demons together,

What are we waiting for?

Peace out,


Good for you Jenni, I am guilty of “relapse” several times and I know how hard “no contact” is especially when you become an intense target. Dust yourself off and keep stepping is my motto. You are doing a great thing encouraging others the way you are – Many times I have found the strength to make it through with the kind words of someone here on this forum. Thank you and thank God for Donna who makes a way for us to express our feelings ,vent our frustrations and share our failures/successes.


By the way, I have done a personal consultation on the phone with Donna.
Saved my life.
Thank you Donna.
She explained the reason why this break up was so hard, so emotional. Like an addiction.


Hey Jenni,
I tried to respond last night but I was not able to log into the website.
Thank you for your encouraging words, as I do need a buddy that understands.


I love the part of your comment that talks about why should I have to be looking for stuff.
You are right… I am literally drained trying to figure out the lies and double talk.
I do want peace, I will do it. I can do it. We can both do it.


Please tell me how you are doing.
I hope you are ok.
I think about your snarky faced grouch on my couch comment all of the time.
Thank you.
I hope you are ok, I have not seen you post here for awhile.

jenni marie


Hi 🙂

I couldn’t help but to re-read our posts from last December, and I remember how much I wanted to be able to say something to you that would be like a sort of life-jacket, for you to be able to avoid sinking into the pit of darkness with that ‘evildude’ again, (which also helped me that night, a lot) because I know how easy it is for us to somehow be fooled by him/them. I let myself get fooled one more time after that post 🙁 I have not been doing great, but have been getting through my days. Faking it, but making it.
I was 11 days of NC when I posted in Dec.

I know this may get long…..but it feels nice that a LF buddie is asking me how I am…..
I hope you are doing good and feeling better every day too, my friend. I forgot about the grouch/couch thing, and I laughed when I read it again because he never deviated from that description of him….

I can’t talk to anyone about this. I had been hiding the fact from my family and my best friend, that I was with/without/with/without him for about a year and half. mike knew I wasn’t telling anyone that I was back/not back/back/not back with him, because I straight out told him when he asked why noone knows, that once he gives me something possitive enough to say about the way he treats me compared to what my family and friends already know about his awful treatment of me before, that I might mention to them that were together again, but not before. Even after more than a year, I didn’t tell anyone I was dealing with the guy again. I guess I didn’t want to feel ashamed for getting back together with the monster I told my peeps about and he didn’t give me anything possitive enough for me to convince my peeps that I would be okay with this guy, this time. Oh well.

I’m going to just go ahead and get this all out…… I need to. I am having ptsd kinds of flashbacks that I have to keep fighting off. Sleeping or working is the only time I am not constantly thinking about this evil guy.

After my December posts– I made it 46 days of NC,
before I allowed NC to be broken….. 🙁

On Jan 18th I went down to the river. I pulled into the main entrance. His truck was there. I didn’t plan on staying, now that he was there. I saw that he and his roommate (evil dudette) were getting ready to leave though, so I thought I would just wait in the other parking area until they leave and then drive back over. He ended up seeing me turning around to drive out. I went to the side of the park that can’t be seen from where he was. I waited about 5 minutes thinking he would be gone from the other side by then, and I could go back to where I wanted to be, to use the better walking trail.

But, it wasn’t enough time. Our cars crossed paths as he was leaving and I was re-entering. Dangit, but since he kept driving away…. I just went in and parked. I took a short walk, it got kinda cold, I got back in my car to leave and wouldn’t ya know it, as I was leaving, he had apparently ditched the roommate to come back by himself, and was entering the park as I was leaving.

I passed him, and for some unknown reason, I pulled my car into the little cul-de-sac at the end of the road that goes to the river. I think I just thought that I would be able to see him drive by and just be an observer of his latest attempt to find and trick me, and I must have thought I was safe where I was by the way I had parked my car to be able to drive off if he did stop there too.

I should have just left completely. He had turned around and come back down the exit road, drove his truck up onto the little embankment I had parked next to so he could put his driver side window right next to mine and he said, “Jenni… It’s good to see you” in that voice he makes, that sounds like he really means what he is saying and so smoothly and sweetly.

I talked to him. I broke NC!!!!! We had one beer. We didn’t talk about getting back together. We didn’t talk about why I had kicked him out 46 days earlier. I asked him if he had messed around with any other girl while we were apart. I guess I just expected that he surely would have, with at least one of the girls he is ‘friends’ with that only come around when I am at work. He said no and asked me if I had messed around with any girls either…haha very funny. . An hour later I went home.

I ran into him at the river the next night too. We didn’t plan to meet up. He was just there again. We talked for a couple hours about nothing important and before I knew it, within a week, he was spending the night at my place again and we were acting like we were that same couple we were before. Once again I was slowly getting stressed out with sleep deprivation from his constant nighttime drama, and his making everything I say into some argument, from his triangulation tactics with other girls, from his manipulations and the obvious joy he got out of doing it to me- he even admitted liking to watch me get all worked up over the things he says and the simple answers he withholds when I ask him any effing question!!! – and the scary lack of appetite he was causing me, that was taking me down to 102lbs, from the 116lbs that I was when I met him. It will take me years to get back to my pre-sociopath weight.

I work 8-5, Mon-Fri. He doesn’t have a real job. He rents out his couple of run down houses to his parasite low life friends, who never pay the full rent anyway.
After getting with him again, this time, again, he still wasn’t being forth-coming about his day, his life, his anything, IF I was in for the backlash I would get if I did ask him about it, that is.
Over the years, I slowly learned it wasn’t a good thing to ask him anything if I wanted an answer, and that I had to endure emotional and verbal torture if I did ask him a question. He complained that all I did was work all day and expect answers to my questions to him as if these were both bad things!!!!!!! GRrrrrrrrr that used to make me so mad when he would berate me for expecting an answer to a question, but heaven forbid I don’t answer his questions!!!!!!!!!
He would spend hours telling me that he ‘wants’ to tell me what he did today, but he has some things to say first, which really was his code words for the insults that would follow. Hours and hours hearing him tell me that everyone understands what he is saying except me, and I since I claim to be so smart that I should get just as excited about what he has to say as other people do, and just agree with him even if he is wrong……. and so much more that I don’t want to think about it right now…..but you would think if I were as stupid as he said, that he wouldn’t tell me how I am the ‘best’. WTF.

I kept telling him for years, that I was never gonna stop asking him the normal things a girlfriend asks a boyfriend who has loads of female friends that only come over when she is at work and her boyfriend has a problem with ever mentioning that he has breakfast and lunch with them, and since the girlfriend finds all this out on her own, he made it so that now she wants to know who he is spending his time with and not telling her about, and since he claims that nothing is going on he needs to start calming down and answering me if he did spend time with a ‘friend’, if I ask him! LET ME decide if I LIKE IT OR NOT, but DON’T HIDE and DON’T LIE and DON’T play HEAD GAMES ON ME!!!

I dared him to be honest constantly- from day ONE! He told me more than once that he didn’t think I could handle the truth. WHAT?— When the truth is ALL I ever wanted, and kept telling him so?!!!
I’m not an Effing Hipocrite!! My comeback was usually along the lines of “what does he do that would cause him to think that I couldn’t handle the truth, if he is supposedly not doing anything to hurt me?” hmmmmm? Doesn’t make sense to tell me that, does it mike!?!

fast forward…..

By the time Feb 19th came around, he had spent at least the prior 2 weeks being his usual bitchy drama- queen, instigating, insulting, sneaky, stonewalling, complaining, two-faced evil mean porn freak self.
The night before, during sex (sorry if this is TMI for anybody) he accidentally spoke to me as if I was the young girl in whatever fantasy he was having at the time and said out loud “you’re SOOO YOUNG (I’m 51), and it was such a yucky turn off for me, sort of sad too, that it was like a big bucket of ice water on the mood. He felt me tense up. He knew he had slipped, but he still tried to tell me that “YOU ARE ‘so young’ “…… nope, sorry, even “NOMO” (mikes new nickname) knew trying to convince me of this BS wasn’t going to work this time. We just didn’t talk anymore that night and went to sleep.

The next night, he had come over to my place after I got off work. We watched some tv, and then around 10pm he started to put his shoes on to leave in his dramatic exit way, so I indulged him and asked him why he wasn’t going to stay. He said for two reasons:
1—- “when his cell rang the hour before, I had asked him who it was. I, again, had insisted that he ‘tell me’ who he was talking to as if I didn’t trust him, and that I shouldn’t be asking him who it was in the first place even if ‘she’ IS one of his FRIENDS”

(It was his friends wife who he was effing right before he met me, so she could get back at her husband, NOMO’s friend, for his cheaing on her. The friend knew all about it and figured that he deserved it. She also happens to be the chick that he wouldn’t peel off of him for the first 8 months of our relationship, until I convinced him that I am sure she will understand that the current girlfriend doesn’t appreciate not getting to see the boyfriend until 9-11 at night, after he spent almost every single day with the ex-f*ck!

2—-“you weren’t in a very loving mood last night when we were cuddling, and I kinda get the feeling that you really don’t want me here anyway, and that you are going to ‘attack’ me with questions, or some girl might call, and then you won’t believe a word I have to say, and I’ll have to explain myself over and over because you just won’t let up and let things go like you always do!”. (remember that EXPLAINING himself meant nothing more than hours and hours of him insulting me for asking him a question in the first place)



I had been feeling the ‘vibe’ of him being around or near or about to be near all day yesterday. and I must tell you what happened last night. I went to the river. he was there. i left and parked down the road. ate my taco. he drove past me, turned around, pulled his car window up next to mine, my window was up, I looked over at him looking at me with a super tired looking sad kind of face and while looking straight at him, I mouthed the words EF-OFF while flipping him off, and then waived him off on his way. I looked away. he paused and I thought he might not drive off and would try to start talking to me, which would either trick me or insult me or piss me off enough to engage with him with anger which he enjoys seeing, and since he’s not gonna get to do that to me anymore, i started my engine so I could drive off if he wasn’t going to, and he decided he’d be the FIRST ONE to leave and he drove off. I turned off my engine, finished eating my taco and then went back down to the river again like I had planned to do in the first place to eat dinner. damnit guess what? he was parked there again. he had went right back…. it was getting dark but i saw that he parked sort of behind a tree over there. I didn’t go over to him. I was far enough away that I could get in my car and leave before he could get near enough to me that i might be able to hear any words he would say. I am not going to allow myself to do the ‘stupid dance’ of trying to make things work with NOMO. I feel better when I am outside. I need to feel better. I don’t have to go there very often if it is too much of a risk of continually running into him, but I like the river and don’t want to give him any satisfaction knowing that he is keeping me from being where i want to be and when i want to be there. This is my life. I don’t want to give up the few beautiful places to go inside this town. I wasn’t going to go home or leave just because he was there again and afterall he did just see me flip him off and tell him to EF OFF, so why would he want to receive that same thing again by trying to talk to me. I listened to my fav talk show host Mark Levin while I shot at paper targets with my Daisy BB Rifle. I stayed for about an hour. he didn’t try to talk to me and was still parked over by the tree when I drove off. he could have left any time. I now know that I have to be extra diligent with NC. he is on the radar screen again. I don’t want to give him the wrong idea. I should not have stayed at the river, but I don’t seem to care if I am giving him something to think about! so effing what if he is thinking about the next trick he can pull on me. i don’t care because no matter what his next trick is, I am not going to allow him to talk to me ever again. I don’t want to be with him. I do miss his package, shame, but true. It’s just too bad that he IS as big a d**k as his d**k is. sorry tmi. I’m still breathing and this is all the truth.

How am I? that’s it, I’m breathing. the rest of the time I am this zombie sad girl who has to put on a happy professional face at work, and sits paralyzed by ptsd type symptoms at home after work while I try to push NOMO out of my mind, until I can’t keep my eyes open and I fall blessedly to sleep. I have to get through this. I have to make sure that I don’t lose it at work and ball my eyes out. I have to make sure I eat something.

When they met me, All of his friends told him not to eff it up this time. I thought it was cute at the time and took it as a compliment, but now I am here to tell you that if you ever hear a mans friends tell him that…..RUN!!!!

this is all rambling, and there’s nothing that is gonna help me more than getting this poison out. There are things that happened over 4.5years ago that are suddenly coming up into my mind. WHY!!!! I had blocked out all THAT past pain before apparently, why is it coming up now!!!

stronginthecity, I sure hope you are doing better than I am. I get so worried when I read that it can take years to get over these creepy air-breathing sociopaths.


tomorrow is coming. do i go to the river like i normally would do? maybe I should not do that for a few weeks….. I just don’t know. I am so ANGRY and SAD and resigned to feeling like this, and maybe someday i will feel better.. all i know right now is that I don’t want to THINK that i WANT to be loved. I had a bad boyfriend before and as a result of him I decided to stay single and finish raising my third child without any risk of him seeing or hearing what bad boyfriends can do. I didn’t want my son to see what abuse looks like. I thought I was strong enough to never let another jerk into my life, but not sure enough for my sons sake so I told everyone that there is no man who would ever be able to put up with me and my morals, so why worry about not having a man in my life. My son has his father who seems to be really genuinely nice to his third wife, who I like and she Loves my son to pieces and thinks he is the cream of the crop. His father was a good enough example on how to treat a woman by the time my son was 11yrs old and I didn’t want to chance bringing any horrible dude into the picture who would negatively influence my kid. My son is engaged to a very sweet girl now, wedding this coming June, and the word ‘abuse’ is not in their vocabulary. I actually didn’t mind being single AT ALL. 🙂 I was a single mom and celibate for 9 years before NOMO came into my life, so i know i can go years without a hug and not die, LOL.

and guess what?
With this 50 DAYS of NC- I have gained 2 WONDERFUL pounds back and kept it on as of today!

peace everyone. this is long, but I can’t seem to stop……….but



I am so glad to hear from you. We have so much in common. I too am 51, work a full time job(he does not and is a bum)and like you put on the corporate face and all of my coworkers think I have it all together.
Then the weekend comes and here I am holding on by a thread.
When is this going to end? I know, it’s a beautiful day, get outside go for a walk get a mani/pedi..I don’t care right now.
I have to get through this in my own way.
I don’t think you should stop going to the river, its what you love and even though he knows that you go there and chances that you will run into him there are very high try to avoid eye contact with him. Wear sunglasses and if he tries to talk to you in that tone, I know that tone and he knows it too take a deep breath and walk away.
I am not at all offended about the sex comments and we all need to talk about it because it’s one thing they all have in common.
He was the best I have ever had, he rocked my world and he knew it but that’s what creates the emotional bond.
I am worried about your weight. Please if anything take care of your health. Go get a physical and possibly see a nutritionist.
I have done the opposite, I gained 12 pounds since I stopped seeing him in January..lack of sexercise! Its ok though I am getting back on track and watching my weight and diet.
He would always make comments about his ex wife..the one who moved to our city after the divorce…thats a whole other story. She gained a lot of weight and even though he said he didn’t care he did. He would always ask me how does a woman let herself go like that? I said that he probably drove her crazy and started doing the only thing she could control and that was to eat everything in sight.
Your comment about how NOMO does not have a real job and rents his run down houses to his lazy friends painted a picture of him. Also my ex would always make comments about my job, and oh for such a smart girl blah blah.
Jenni, I know this is probably not practical but is there any chance that you can move?
The reason I ask is that my company has offices in many different states and I am considering transferring. I have never lived any where but this big Midwest city but since I could easily rent out my home, yes I own a home and keep my same salary I am seriously considering it. They have an office in SC and have been in contact with another employee that has transferred there.
There is nothing really here for me anymore. My daughter will probably move out of state soon with her new hubby who by the way is amazing. Cycle broken thank the Lord. I have to mention that my sister, who is 18 months older than me has also fallen prey to a sociopath. Her weight drastically plummeted also…I try to tell her that we were dating the same type of man but she does not think hers was as bad because he had a job. Sorry sis, when a man that you just met proposes after 2 months of dating and then takes you on a trip to Mexico and locks you in a hotel room after you dare question him about the wedding date proclaiming to be top dog and he is in control screams crazy to me. She does not see it that way but again that’s another story.
Jenni, please keep in touch and we can do this together. I know how you feel. I really do. Don’t accept his bad behavior..I know how hard it is. I am so cranky because I miss the fake passion.
Oh let me address the comment you made about him saying the young thing while you guys were having sex.
Creep city girl.Mine is a pervert too. Look for my post about the teen porn I found on his phone and him eyeing down the little girl in the restaurant. Yuck.
I understand that you cant talk to anyone about your on and off relationship with your friends because like mine they don’t understand how strong the bond these crazies create.
Stay strong and if you get the urge to see him write here. It’s not worth it. I get it believe me.
I am so ashamed of myself for falling for his trick on Christmas with the whole ring thing…
I never actually caught him cheating but I know he has and with women like me.
His own brother even made a comment about how does he get all of these women..I was like what???? Then he said oh, I mean women like you. Yeah right. He knows and even tried to warn me but those brothers are so tight he would never tell me the truth, hell his brother actually called me while he was away seeing his kids before Christmas telling me that he is no good and saying that I deserved better..him! AHHHHHHHH
Lord help us all to stay strong. These people are life suckers and all I can do right now is continue to educate myself on how to stay away and never get mixed up with someone like him ever again.
Write back when you have time.


I was reading your post again. Regarding the PTSD and flashbacks..
I have that too. Even though he has not been here in my home for months, I still will come across a sock in a drawer, a shirt in the closet and it happens.
Like you said work and sleep…I feel the same way.
I remember back in the crazy time when I was still trying to make sense of the nonsense I logged into his cell phone acct and since he does not work I saw what he did all day..talked on the phone. I could not believe the amount of calls that were listed. Enormous. I then became obsessed with finding out who those numbers belonged to. There were woman, people that he told me that he never talks to anymore, his stupid friends on and on.
I would start to dread my drive home from work because if I did not answer the phone(because I was driving or did not feel like hearing about his day) I would never hear the end of it. So I obeyed like a good socio girlfriend.
If my phone rings at this time now..I start to panic and get dizzy. I know its not him because I have him blocked but the time of day triggers these feelings.


How are you doing? I hope you are ok. I had a slip up this week too but was able to see everything so much clearly now.
Please let me know how you are.
Your LF bubby,


I just read your post again…
I am totally convinced they are all the same person.


Jenni Marie!
How are you?
I hope you are happy and thriving… living life to its fullest.
I think about you and wondering how you are doing??

jenni marie

Hi stronginthecity!! I am doing well! I think about you too and hope you are doing well also!
I have been keeping absolute No Contact with “NOMO” since Dec 15, 2015. And in 2015 I only saw him for a couple weeks in Feb, then No Contact until after Thanksgiving 2015 when out of the blue he texted me a really beautiful pic of the sunset, and like a dummy, I texted back ” Does your new girlfriend know that you are texting your recent ex-gf?” Ouch, because this is when he told me that the 20 year old daughter of his friend had drunk dialed him for sex and he has his animal needs so he went for it. This is the little slut that he had squished himself up next to her in her little bikini while we were all on his boat 3 summers ago! I warned him then, that she is the kind of girl who would think his special attention was a come on, and I was right. Surprisingly I just felt grossed out knowing this 56 yr old man slept with his friends drunk kid who isn’t even old enough to drink and is younger than my youngest child and I told him that it kinda makes him look like the child molester that his sons mom accused him of being through that whole court trial he had with her. He said he was just simultaneously washing his sons penis & the anal area with his finger to get it clean because he doesn’t like poop and the whole thing got blown out of proportion because his sons mother didn’t like the fact that he spent his days playing at the lake, selling pot, and never planned on getting a real ! NOMO spent almost every single Sunday talking about the molestation case against him to the point where I knew that my Sundays were going to be spent in the house with him defending himself against the charge and he used it as a way to be angry all day. Also found texts on his phone from a “tenant” how much she enjoyed their deep conversations and how great of a man she thinks he is. I told him that if he’s going to try and get with me he better tell her to go away. Hours and hours later, he finally sends her a text that said “as for now, I’m romantically bound to Jenni”. I’m like seriously?!? AS FOR NOW?!?!! I then showed him the view of the outside of my front door and tols him to get lost. Sad news though…..he started showing up at my Starbucks in Feb 2017. He parks and goes inside. I take a pic of his vehicle from my place in the drive thru for proof & my baristas know he is my stalker & help make sure he doesn’t come out while I’m in the drive thru. This has happened 23 times that I’ve caught since Feb 15th. Then 2 weeks ago he called and left me a message that he had found this little brass bear keyring that I gave him in 2012 and “he didn’t know what to do with it”. Well the very next morning, he walked up to my car in the coffee drivethru, had my cell phone recording it as I rolled up my window and he shoved the bear keyring into the window, saw I was recording him, he smiled and waved as if he were a normal person and walked back to his truck. He’s been parked there in the morning three times since the bear day. Please know that 1-He blamed our fights on the fact that I drank coffee, and 2-he is NOT a morning person and is now showing up at 7:30 in the morning to have coffee?????? I tried a diff coffee place but it didn’t taste right so I went back to my reg place, cuz I really didn’t want him to control where I go, but now I’ve decided to go to the Starbucks across the street from his house because he won’t be THERE!!
It took at least 14 months for my guts to stop churning when he came into my mind and when I saw him up close the other day, he looked ugly to me. He has a yellowish tinge to his skin even worse than in 2015 and I had no desire to say one single word to him. I just rolled my window up. I put a curse on him that goes like this: each time he comes to my mind, he has to think of all the power and abusive control that he LOST regarding me, the biggest fool he ever tricked, and how much this fact pisses him off!! Oh, and that 20 year old drunk slut? Well apparently it didn’t work out because she wanted to do things besides sex and spend his money. He didn’t like that.
So, how is SITC?

jenni marie

Oh! Omg I have gained my weight back plus some lol. I’m up to 130 from 102! Normal is 115 hahaha. When I was with him, I couldn’t get over 105 no matter what…for 5.5 years.


Jenni Marie
I just now saw your post from 4 months ago.
I saw Donna Andersen on a tv show and have not been posting on lf for awhile.
I just had to reach out to you and see if you are ok.
The lastest stalking by nomo is really scary.
I’m going to ask Donna if we can connect off lf if you are ok with that.
So much has happened and I don’t want to post too much here.


Jenni Marie
Please let me know if you are ok!


Jenni Marie
I hope you see this response!
I was not subscribed to comments and didn’t see yours.
Hope you are ok!


I made it 6 months and 11 days with no contact and just today gave in to let him speak to our daughter. Three words to me and I am right back where I started feeling 3 inches tall. He knows exactly what to say to me to make me feel like I am nothing. I was feeling so strong, so tough and now I feel like I am worthless and weak. One has to learn that the longer we stay away, the stronger our position becomes. To give in and allow them their victory is devistating in more ways than one. STRONGINTHECITY you are stronger than you give yourself credit for, you lived, survived and thrived without him for a long time and he probably planned his way back into your life much like a game of chess that he plotted and strategized at great lengths. Sometimes , like myself we have to concede failure and accept it that he will find a way to put us in checkmate everytime. His whole life is plotting his strategy so he is a much better player than we are. We may not be able to win at playing his game, but we have to be able to see him setting up his game pieces and not play the game at all. Stop playing the game. Its the only way I can survive every day so Its the best advice I can give to one who is living in a universe parallel to my own horror.Stop playing the game and you will feel much better I promise.


I am going through the comments from my post.
I don’t think I ever said thank you.
How are you doing? I hope the spring air finds you at peace from the drama and chaos for the sake of your daughter.
It must be hard to have children with a person like this.
Yes, he did plan his way back in my life before..but never again.
I mean NEVER.


My heartfelt sympathy to all of us who have difficulty with the “no contact” rule. My suggestion is to transfer your love to something you feel passionate about or to “something” whose love is real. For example, I just got this totally adorable puppy, 2Lb. 9Oz. Last nite I dreamt that my dog was shrinking, shrinking, until she disappeared completely. In my dream I grieved and grieved. My heart was broken and I looked to blame myself. Suddenly, I awoke; it was 10:00 A.M. Time to get out of bed, find my puppy, Rosie, and kiss and hug her for real. Yup! It was a dream and my puppy was Real and my love for her was Real and that’s all I needed to know! Kalina


All good advice. You might also consider the greyrock technique – practicing it may keep you safer from him.


He knows me too well to use that technique anymore


I could never do it either, he always was able to push my buttons. I had to do No Contact. When I have to deal with him, over a tax issue or logistical issue, I can do ok with emails.


I hope you see this post and I value your wisdom.

About pushing my buttons:
I HATE being told what to do. It seems to be a trigger for me. When someone has “that tone” in their voice, like I am beneath them and that of course I should comply with their imperious order… it makes me feel so violated. It’s something my ex and his family used to do to me. However since I am so triggered by it, I think it must be a childhood thing.

It’s my main button pusher, I can deal with everything else and not feel as bothered as this seemingly insignificant thing. Nothing makes me feel as worthless as someone ordering me around.

Does this mean I have a personality disorder, too?
It seems to be my blind spot and so I’ve always wondered. I am okay if others see clearly and have a comment about my blind spot too. I want to resolve it.


Hi. I hope you don’t mind me sharing a few things that have helped me to sort out some of the insanity that others have tried to use to control me and simultaneously make me beat up on myself. Dr George Simon has some really good articles that have opened my eyes to some of the tactics that these manipulators use to gain advantage. There are many articles, some written in series that will cue up on topic. Thinking patterns of disturbed characters, neurosis vs character disorder, covertly aggressive, ect. The site is called Here on Lovefraud there are archives of incredibly insightful articles. I just read an article from Dr Steve that used the word paramoralism. Pathologically inclined individuals sometimes use language that infers a moral position but are actually just trying to gain advantage over us. I’ve learned to listen very carefully to what is being sold by those who have I have seen without their masks on. I’m surprised at how clearly I can read these wolves now because I have stopped buying their deceptions. To be honest a lot of my clarity has come from being destroyed in my community by the smear campaign. When others who were key players in the narcissistic power plays use distancing, evasion, minimisation, selective memory, blame the victim, gaslighting, ect, to evade personal accountability or to justify the cunning course of an ally it’s easier to see when they try to rewrite history when you know the details. Sounds like you are reading the underlying deception beneath their facade pretty well. Toxic people trigger non toxic people. You may come to embrace the ability to read or at least feel that something is off as a gift. Doesn’t sound like you are the problem, but rather the target.



It’s my understanding that personality disordered people don’t ever worry that they have a personality disorder, so if you wonder about it that’s a guarantee that you aren’t disordered. I think just about everyone has personal sensitivities.

4Light2shine offers some good perspective.

I think that your awareness that you are triggered by condescending attitudes and tones, your suspicion that it goes back to having been treated badly in some way in childhood, and your understanding of how your ex’s abuse figures into it, all give you power to deal with it.

When you feel triggered you can keep from being overwhelmed by using a calming technique that works for you – taking a break from the situation, deep breathing, counting to 10 slowly. Then you can take time to evaluate whether the person is out of line in putting you down, taking advantage of you, or just plain rude. Sometimes people he person just come across condescending and bossy, but don’t really mean any harm. It’s worth evaluating what people are motivated by and are they a real threat to you.

It may be helpful to take some time to decide how to respond. What is best for you? Confront the person and tell them how they are making you feel? Walk away and cut this person out of your life forever? Let it ride for awhile and then decide what to do? Put up with it? You can choose to do whatever you think the best response is for yourself and others.

Negative emotions can be a good indicator that something needs changing, something needs dealing with, something is wrong and/or you are being mistreated. But sometimes we have been conditioned by bad experience into reacting when there is no real danger. Spaths have messed with our heads so much that we doubt ourselves and don’t have confidence in our ability to discern. I sometimes go back and forth between thinking I am over-reacting and under-reacting, unsure if I’m being paranoid and over sensitive or if I’m allowing myself to be exploited.

I’ve read that trying to respond rather than going with the natural tendency to react is helpful when one’s emotions are triggered. And finding a way to step away, to give yourself time to recover from the overwhelming negative emotion and time to think.

It’s all a lot easier said than done. A lot of my negative reactions are automatic and I find it really difficult to overcome ingrained habit and develop different ways of thinking and responding.

If you can remember the specifics about how you were mistreated when you were a child, maybe it would help to free you from unwanted negative emotions. A good counselor has tools to help you.

Your ex spath may have used a condescending tone with you deliberately because he knew it triggered you already, and that would have intensified your sensitivity.

I hope there’s something here that is useful to you.


Thank You. You are right on about Dr Simon. I have recommended him to so many. And it feels right on when you say “Pathologically inclined… infers a moral position…” It was a brief encounter but totally a narcissistic power play. Wow. I read that person in less than a blink of an eye. Saw into them into his core. Until I read your words, I didn’t realize what had actually happened. But I bet HE knew I saw into him and that’s why a jerk stranger went into attack mode, ordering me around as if he had the right to.

Thank You so much. 4light2shine’s perspective is spot on. I can’t remember a specific incident as a child, I only know that a core pain is childhood, not from my marriage. BUT… my ex was VERY good at spotting my core pain and using it… pushing that particular button. 🙂 I usually am able to step back and think before responding only this time, it was a man and his wife and it was like they tagteamed me. I felt overwhelmed and I just dug in and ignored them, they name called me, they tried to shame me. That part didn’t bother me, it was their attitude that I didn’t deserve to be where I was, and that they did. Like you, I want to be sure I am not over-reacting or taking things amiss when they weren’t intended, but this incident was intended, overt, and very hostile. So while I didn’t escalate it, I did not comply with his “orders”, I just walked to another area and did the task that I went to accomplish, and ONLY THEN did I leave… which I would have done anyway. I felt so undignified though and maybe that’s what I shall work on, how to respond in a way that lets me maintain self respect and dignity… while ignoring when someone else wants to act a fool.

Thank you both, I am feeling better. Bigotry is such an ugly thing no matter who its from.



Thanks for the added info about what happened to you. Sounds to me like you handled a couple of evil harmful people very well. There is a lot of good power and energy in that.
Consider that calling you names can be illegal; I think it’s called “curse and abuse.” It could be harassment.
In any case it’s mean and wrong.


greyrock did not work for me either. My now ex just upped the ante, he wanted to see the pain and wasn’t satisfied until he did. The greyrock method just ensured that others got hurt as a method of hurting me.


I too am feeling straightforward, not just for tonite but on this general topic as well.

I want to become WELL KNOWN on these pages for not having gotten away from my spath until he was being accused of a double homicide, one of the victims being the OW that he left me for.

Here have been the additional costs of my not enforcing N/C sooner:

1. The man is more dangerous than ever and nobody has been held accountable for the crime, which has empowered him.

2. The kids are no longer just associated with a weirdo but one whom others have accused of committing murder.

3. I’ve felt very guilty over “not doing something in time” as though I could have transformed him with my magic wand or something. Although this is irrational, it bothers me anyway.

Don’t wait. Break Contact before it is too late! It is NOT just that this person could attack you (which he absolutely could do) but also that you could become associated with someone who is even worse than just a former prisoner serving time for a drug crime.

THEN what would you?! you would do exactly what I do 24/7….KICK YOUR FANNY, that’s what. And there’s nobody around to take that kick….just you. So PLEASE take it from me and make your latest date with the dude YOUR LAST.


I have to process this before I can respond..


What happened?
Did the spath do something terrible?


Whenever I start to feel sorry for the sociopath or nostalgic for the times we shared, I just remind myself:
No flattery or good times is worth my life or the lives of friends or family. Financial disaster can be overcome… as long as I am still alive. Loss of property is not a big deal… because I am still alive.

Even though I don’t think the sociopath will come after me right now, I MUST remember that it is a very real possibility, especially if the sociopath thinks there is a viable way to get away with it. With the sociopath in my life, it is all about what I can provide – money, property, sex. Once that is no longer on the table, I think I am fairly safe… as long as the sociopath does not have a reason to fear exposure from me. Not only do I go no contact as much as possible, but I try to erase the existence of the sociopath from my daily conversation and thought processes as much as possible. If the subject comes up, my mental mantra is I AM STILL ALIVE. It is a good reminder as to why I don’t want to be sucked back into the abyss.


All good advice. When going No Contact with the nutcase didn’t stop him, I moved, forwarded my mail to a P.O. Box, garaged my car, and avoided any place he might be. Not good enough. He sweet talked friends into giving him my new address and phone. Then he and his new gf tried repeatedly to break into my new place. I caught them red handed the third and last time, right before I moved again to yet another secure undisclosed location an hour and a half away. Then I forwarded the mail from the P.O Box to another P.O. Box, left all mutual friends and acquaintances behind and stepped under the radar for over a decade. I didn’t come out until I knew he was dead, and yes, he did try to find me and even sent a love letter to my employer to give to me in an attempt to reel me back in.

Understand that:

(1) These people are DANGEROUS. They will use you and they will hurt you if they think they can.

(2) Other people will not see them for what they are.

(3) Every time they talk you back they get more bold in enforcing their agenda.

(4) In their minds there is no compromise. It is winner take all, and they will always win at any cost. Your cost.

Good luck to you, and all of you who are still in jeopardy. You can have a wonderful life, but not with that creature around. Get angry. Then pull together a plan that protects you and do your level best to stick to it.


What a blessing that your ex spath passed away.


I am reading through the comments here and found yours.
First, thank you for the response.
I think my ex is still coming into my house.
How did you find out and did it stop?
For me its little things, I know how I leave my house when I go to work.
I find things like fingerprints on the window, my earrings being moved in my jewelry box, my mail tossed about.
Thanks and love,


Everything you say is true.
Is it horrible that I check the obits to see if he is dead?


Great advice.
No contact…real no contact is the only way to get away once and for all.
You are right in saying that others don’t see them for what they are.
Mine has a string of followers… and knows everybody.
These people range from low life good for nothings to extremely wealthy people.
He defiantly has the gift of gab.


And, never underestimate them. They will run out of Supply and look to come back to you! They burn their bridges. Even though he made you out to be an evil blood-sucking woman, he knows he had it made with you. He will be back. IT’s a number’s game. If it doesn’t work with you, then it may work with his other ex-s.

He just keeps going, and recycling, hit/miss. Sooner or later he will find a target.


Part 2 coming soon.


The case of the second cell phone…
His response…I must have activated it!
It was a cell phone from December that mysteriously stopped working when he traveled out of state and he “just bought another one”.
Called it after 2 months, he answered it! His reply uhh ohh I dont know how this phone started working.


It’s been a while since I posted.
This would be part 2 .
When he returned from another state to visit his kids, 2 days before Christmas it was a love fest even though while he was away his phone suddenly stopped working there even though he sent me text messages when he arrived telling me he was there, with his kids and was going to sleep.
The next day a few text messages and then my return messages to him were being returned with an error message saying “out of service” or something to that effect. I freaked out..He then sent me a message a day or so later from his “brothers” phone. Suddenly his phone was not working there even though his carrier has several stores right there in small town Florida.
He called me telling me his phone didn’t work and that he was going to get another one asap so that we could talk.He said I could reach him at his “brothers” number if I needed to talk.
A day or so later he text me with his “new phone” which was 1 digit off from his “brothers” phone. Drama.
We communicated back and forth on the new phone while I questioned why his phone suddenly stopped working even though he sent me messages from the old number.
He became defensive and upset when I questioned this. I backed down. At least he was calling and texting.
Since he would be catching his free ride 2 days before Christmas he claimed that he was doing Christmas with his kids, mother and the rest of the family before his departure.
His cousin, who provided the free ride dropped him off at my house around 8 in the evening. He was so happy to see me, he missed me and stayed at my place through Christmas.
Since I knew he would be around for the holidays I bought some last minute gifts for him, all clothing because I wanted it to be something non personal in case he decided to have one of his “moments”and flee my home in an argument as he has done so many times before.
Christmas eve morning came and he just could not wait to give me my gift. H wanted to make sure I liked it. We were still in bed.
He handed me a small bag. I opened it and inside was a velvet bag with a jewelry box, I thought another pair of earrings..perhaps a necklace but no it was a ring, a diamond ring. A really beautiful ring. Obviously an engagement ring. I said to him that’s a beautiful ring, which finger does that go on? He took it and placed it on my left hand and stated”do you want to grow old with me” ? I have to admit I was caught up in the moment as he slid that beauty on my finger…. all seemed to be right.
He did it again.


Red the original post and then read my part 2 mumbo jumbo.
The engagement ring for Christmas the son coming out of the blue on my birthday.
This is 7 years after he crumbled me up like a piece of used Kleenex and left town and never told me.
Just disappeared.
I can’t believe I liked after that but I did.
My bad I never educated myself until he reappeared 7 years later and my life turned upside down again.
Read all about it.
Please listen to us here.
We know what you are going through and are trying to save you.
No contact.
No contact.
No contact.
Your friend


Thank youuuuuuuu


I have been NC for 4 months.. it’s been a long road with lot’s of mixed emotions.
I have learned that I am ok being alone and just have to think back what 5 minutes of his company was like.
Drama, chaos lies and manipulation.
I have no idea where he is and really don’t care.
I still feel like he comes into my house when I am not home even though I have changed locks and installed a security system.
It’s going to take a while!
I keep reading here, pretty much every day and always think that we are all talking about the same man.
I wish there was a website to list their names…a warning to others but I go on. One day at a time.


Just saw your April 10th update. Too bad I already spent time writing my comment — since you have already moved on! Congrats.

Are there any windows that you can install those easy inside blocks onto? Is that how he could be getting in? Hopefully you are just being paranoid from dealing with his nuttiness.

Congrats on moving forward!


This is an update and more to come. I am in the discarded phase again.
This time I know it was planned.
My birthday….


Christmas day was a basket of mixed emotions.I received a beautiful engagement ring and he was still in the gas lighting phase, again.
Of coarse he could not come to my family’s house as my daughter in particular would not allow him in her house nor did she know that we were “back together”. He happily laid on the couch for the day watching TV, one of his favorite past times.
The day after Christmas, while he was taking his afternoon nap(lazy), I decided to log into FB, which I rarely do I was surprised to see a message from his ex-wife…wishing me Happy Holidays… oh boy, here comes the drama. I do not communicate with her but she chose Christmas to send me a message. I responded that I did not wish to communicate with her and told her that I did receive a ring from him for Christmas, and knew it was wrong but hit the send button anyway.
When he woke from his much needed nap I told him about it and he said that he didn’t care if I posted pictures of us and the ring on FB.
An hour later I receive a call from his son…she had forwarded the message to him and I received a verbally harassing voice mail..”stay away from my family, tell my dad not to call me”. Keep in mind that I have never met his 20 something year old sons. A series of phone calls later to his son, ex wife etc started. I told him I was sorry for sending that message. I truly was because I knew it was wrong.
I was starting to behave like him and I hated myself for it.
Days went on and “the ring” that I proudly wore was never talked about. It was strange.
Why did he buy me this ring and put it on my finger? Finally I asked him. He said “because I wanted to show you that I love you”.
I accepted that. I wanted to be in that love phase that I am so addicted to. He was being perfect again. In the back of my mind I knew it would be short lived before the lies and nonsense would start again.
My birthday was coming up soon and I somehow could feel that something bad was about to happen but rolled with it.
I told him that I just wanted to go to dinner for my birthday because I knew the ring was expensive.
We had a perfect weekend, went to a great restaurant and had a fabulous time enjoying being a couple out and about as most of our weekends were spent having sex…and ignoring our friends and family.
It was too good to be true, could he have REALLY changed? He was divorced, was working and he gave me that beautiful ring. He told me while he was away visiting his children he had a lot of time to think and that he missed me so much, that he could not imagine his life without me in it. Everything I wanted to hear, again.
I believed it.
Backtrack to his birthday…it was midsummer and I had a small party for him. We had a great evening and next day went I treated him to a pedicure. While I was waiting for him to finish we talked about his upcoming final divorce and he asked me to look it up on my phone, he couldn’t remember the time. My phone battery was dead and I asked to use his phone which he claimed never used to go on the internet. He claimed that he despises the internet and wanted nothing to do with email, FB.
I opened up the browser and there it was…porn…not just porn but child porn, multiple site were open and I immediately was sick to my stomach. I took a deep breath and went to the site to look up the court time. We were in a public place. I remained silent while we drove back to my place. I confronted him. I told him I was disgusted and at first he tried to blame it on his friend, his friend was the one that was looking at it on his phone. Then he started crying like he usually does and admitted that he was a sick #$%^ and needed some help. He claimed the sites he visited were girls that were 18 and over but dressed up to look like younger girls. One excuse after another. We sat there for several hours and I went back and forth listening to his excuses. He tried to tell me there is nothing wrong with it and back and forth. He went to the bathroom and I took his phone and left. I went through his phone and really found nothing..(he had already deleted everything while I ran to the store) but when I returned he sat there with the “Im busted” look on his face. I gave him back his phone and he took it and smashed it. He left my house on his birthday crying, sobbing blaming me. We did not talk for awhile and again this was swept under the rug just as all of the other things had. I knew that he would somehow use this later to get back at me.
My birthday 2015, six months after this phone craziness, back with him again…after the ring, after promises of moving in together after months of lies that I couldn’t was about to blow up in my face. The day of my birthday I was off work. I told him 3 times over the weekend that I needed the entire day to take care of bills, paperwork, etc. He said he understood. Instead of going to work in the morning he decided to call in sick and spend the day with me…even though I told him I would be busy the entire day. He tried to crawl back in bed with me and I sent him off on errands so that I could take care of my paperwork…he did finally leave but proceeded to call me 7 to 8 times while he was gone for about 3 hours.
I got nothing done and I saw the delight on his face when he returned and I was clearly upset. He started making comments about his phone, he needed to get his glasses so that he could better see the porn on his phone. Mind you,that happened over 6 months ago and never talked about again, until MY birthday. I was still trying to finish up some work and he decided he was going to make me a birthday cake, banging around the kitchen making noise distracting me and taking pure evil delight in it.
Needless to say a fight, packed his things and left me again. I was to blame. He couldn’t understand why I could not get my things done and was irresponsible, I did not love him, he was never going to be good enough on and on.
Its been almost 2 months….I have been discarded with evil vengeance.


The text messages started again this week, changing my phone # does not help…
He was testing me after I have NOT reached out to him at all.
It has become REALLY predictable at this point.
He messages me about one of his many medical problems. I dont respond.
He tugs on my heart strings about going to the emergency room, he says, “oh, I thought you cared”.
It starts that way to get me to respond and then he starts with the,”you don’t miss me at all” texts.
It will then go to sex. He will remind me how great he is in bed and how he can make me feel better.
When I don’t respond he gives up.(I have given in before with the sex, It’s like breaking an addiction). I just want to fell normal again for a day or two.
I had a memory pop into my head this morning.
We were out to lunch, months after I found the porn on his phone.
He kept glancing at another table while we were eating. He had NEVER done that before. He always had all eyes on me anytime we went anywhere.
I ignored the urge to turn around to see who he was looking at. I waited until we finished eating to put on my coat..I was thinking it must be a really beautiful girl or someone he knew, right???
WRONG, it was a VERY young girl. Maybe 11 years old. He was giving her that look. The one that he used t give me. The little girl was smiling right back at him….makes me sick to my stomach just to think about it.
Please mothers of young children, watch who you let into your lives.
There are sick predators out there just waiting to move in and help single overwhelmed mommy.
Luckily I do not have small children around because this is so messed up.
My mind is wondering why do almost all of his close friend have small kids and he is 50????


Blocking advice…text block followed by his # to 9999.
Text messages are completely wiped, never to be seen.
I am not changing my # again.
This is great especially in the beginning of NC because there is nothing sent to spam to even delete.


I am replying to my own post because I want you all to read this.
Especially the younger women with small children.
I actually tucked this one away in my own head because its so disturbing.


Please read my post March 14, 2015 at 5:07 pm.
For the women with small children.


How on earth did I block this out??
The day that he was making up stories about meeting the biggest sociopath ever, his mother.
She was in town and he was desperately gaslighting my meeting her.
Read the above post to the end, the part about the young girl at the restaurant.
Of all the things he did, I forget about this???


You have to get up the courage to end it once and for all… If you don’t do it now and you marry him…he will ruin you!!! All these men do is take, take, take, until he has your mind and soul spinning in confusion… you already know he is lying to you, cheating on you… does that sound like love!! NO IT DOES NOT..Do not answer his calls If he comes by tell him you are in a committed relationship with someone we will move on to his next victim. All you are to him is money & sex!! I should know the same thing happened to me too..



Thank you for taking the time to read my crazy story, believe me this is just a snippet of the nonsense and if yo have been in it you know what I mean.
Writing about it made me feel better and everyday that I am away from him just gets better and better.


I did not marry him or let him move into MY house.
I found my voice and it says NO!
Thank you Soundra for the advice.
I need to hear more!


Hi Strong…. Hi Everyone….
I am reaching out with tears so thick I can hardly see the computer.

Please help keep me strong.


why me? a trauma survivor already… and with anorexia and depression that almost took my life aug. 2013….

I never had kids. I gave up a good husband many many years ago.
I am alone.

People teling me all day how talented and loving and giving I am.

Oh yeah? then why I am a lone at 45 with a little apartment and a cat?

how could someone look me in the eye… have sex… cry with me… hold me… and all the while LIE…. b/c he needed me to think he was for real… b/c he lost his apartment and car.. even tho he is a fireman.

You guys…. HE IS REALLY EVIL. Not sick. Not weird. But actual evil.

I am sooooo angry at myself. that does not help when depressed…. for depression is anger turned inward.

I feel as if i want to die right now.

No…. I will not kill myself. If a broken heart can kill me…. I will die however.

I have lost someone who I thought was my best friend.
laughed every day.


that is insane.

i helped take care of his kids.. got them bday presents cuz he said he did not have the money. i tried to make it look like he gave them to the kids.
he has not paid rent since oct.
or any bills.
he had me believing we were going to be forever together and that we were partners and would tell me that partners help the other when they are down and out and that he would cover for me when he got another job…and for the rest of my life.


worse than death. much much worse. death of him woul not have been my fault. people would support and love me. IT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN INTENTIONAL… TARGET…. LOVE….TAKE…. LIE… LEAVE…

BY WHAT??/ COVERING ALL HIS BILLS? although I make very little?
by letting him live rent… and bill free? cooking… massages? loving… meeting my family….sex… my body.

I feel no hope right ow…. and sometimes I want one of you to throw me down a life vest to hold on to. I cant sink. I have my music…. and talent…. and brains….and my aging parents love me to death and have seen me almost die… and adopted me.

I have too much love to give seniors, kids, animals…

I just thought Jerry…. was going to be at my side. we were going to have our own little place. Id hlep take care of his kids. we were looking into getting a dog. talking honeymoom.

His mind is disorderd. I have witnessed such pure evil… that I feel as if I have been hit by a truck.

so… since this dude is soooo evil….
why am I have such a hard time letting go and saying god ridance?

THAT MAKES NO DAMNED SENSE. No. Wake up megan…. you are afraid to let go of the fantasy he created….

what you are really getting rid of is a lying conartist… serial seducer…. freeloading, lying, narcissistic, manipultive.. cold hearted parasite who will such the life out of anyone woman with who he is involved.
I wish god could to thi al for me . th nc. the not panicking cuz he’s gone. I feel like I cant do it alone.

the man who held me every night for almost a year… is GONE……
and blames it on me. and gets angered when i want to discuss things.

Lord.. release me of this please.

love to all of you.sory to ramble. I m half asleep.


Kittylover…please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline in the USA 800-799-SAFE to talk with a free counselor…they WILL be able to help you…that is what they do…they help victims through their emotional pain.

YOU have to reach out for help hon, you have to follow the NO CONTACT RULE these are the way you find peace and calmness. We can only help you so much here but the hotline can help you even more as they are trained in these matters. ALso go to your local abuse center for free counseling and free women group meetings.

YOU ARE NOT ALONE…keep reaching out for help tonight!!

(if you are not in the USA then google your countries name with the words National domestic abuse hotline_


Jan7… I fell asleep as I posted last night, but… at some point during my crazy busy day. I will call.

I did not know they would help me emotionally.
again… he will not hit me… he is a fireman and will lose his job.. Instead he is stabbing me behind my back.

I have woken up with the worst headache ever… but from clenching my teeth… even while wearing my 1,555 dollar bite guard. My head is pounding.. how much pain and stress am I in?

i work with nurses.. and yesterday they told me to jump on their big scale cuz I look really thin. I am eating the same… but losing weight from this… it is almost as if my body is displaying just how much I am dying inside.
he texted me.. he is sorry. He loves me. he was scared cuz I kept threatening to kick him out.
wow… he was not scared enough to have me pay for everything including his car tags… he did this all under the guise f a forever/life parterneership.. making me think hed’ pay me back… pay rent when he recovers his second job… be there for me..
He told an exgfriend that I HAVE TRUST ISSUES and that I did crazy things cuz I was so paranoid that he would cheat and he just could not take it anymore!
I am a singer/actor/dancer/writer… and artist…and musician and let me tell you….. I AM INTUITIVE.

I love you all and ask for your support today.
why am i no longer receiving emails when one of you replies? I really need that…
I ironically meet with a rabbi today (I am not jewish) for work…. trying to get him involved with my residents. he is an amazing singer and musician as well. I so want to open up to him… or at least say pray for me… or I need help
Oh…. and my spath… texted…. he thinks our love is worth fighting for and he f-cked up. He wants to keep trying.
and my inner child cries, “Yes! Yes! He loves me. He will stay with me. all will be well like before.”

This 45 year old woman says….

I love you all.

thank you.


kittylover, BLOCK his number! His texts are traumatic and he is trying to suck you back in. Not only does No Contact mean you don’t contact him, but you also refuse to receive contact FROM him.


Megan. 800.799.SAFE.
Please call!
They will help you through this. I promise.
You need to talk with someone now.
We are all worried about you.
Please call.
We have all been there.
It doesn’t make sense because he is different disrespectful disordered.
You are loving caring and nurturing.
Please please call.
It is domestic violence.


On one hand, you dogging this guy to become a choirboy that he wasn’t and couldn’t ever be was not love but a fantasy about what love is and needs. You might want to explore the subject of love in real time more.
On the other hand, that porn business has to be a deal breaker for you. If ever there’s a kabasher on a thriving sexual life, it’s repulsion. And you’d get there soon enough. That it didn’t kill your appetite the first time you saw his interest is worth a ponder, too. Imagine a wedded life of no bliss for all the years wasted in conflicts over that and the repulsion. Because that’s how the marriage would go. (Talk to his ex if you don’t believe me.)
Forget that he was the discarder by realizing you should have been 6 months ago. When you didn’t do that, you set yourself up to loathe yourself without knowing it. We cannot fool ourselves at the subconscious level ever. You should suspect that’s what is working on you more than his leave taking.
If you want to get a good picture of the toll taken of self destruction with self loathing, you’ve got a great example of it in this dude. He hid out a lot for it and you would have found out that he did for nothing that fits into real life; just internal dramas. And then ultimately, he implodes.
Interesting that he revisits the porn issue again on his own initiative for what seems to be you setting some boundaries with him that day; ie, he must consume you to not disintegrate. And because you want “up for air”, he pulls your chain.
This is all convoluted stuff which is enough to declare for yourself “Done”. And thank that part of you that fought for a sounder way of living at the end.


Point well taken, Viewpoint!
I need some in your face advice!
I am so glad that our plans to move in together never happened.
I am living in my nice comfy home and he lives in a sad little basement apartment with roommates!


I’m not one for giving advice like I have solutions. I’m more into the reflection/points to ponder stuff about oneself…. And I do come across like I’m ganging up on a person in grief for the stuff that they are haunted by.

I think it’s over for you in truth. And there’s just the funeral to attend … with or without him. Don’t be surprised if you feel gloomy for awhile. Something/someone did die for you.

There’s an old advice column on called “Dear Sugar” written by Cheryl Stayed, author of “Wild”… It’s entertaining advice; emphasis on entertaining.


Thanks! I’ll check it out. It’s all about me at this point.
I feel stronger after letting it all out and by doing so was able to finally see it for what it is.
A parasite, a leech looking for somewhere to land.
Not here sweetie!


Mine too. And he admitted it.
He wrote me yesterday that he took advantage of my kindness. took advantage of a very good person.
he said he “was scared”…. I had him scared that Id kick him out and hed be homeless.
hey… if you are 46.. a paramedic, firefighter, physical therapist and you are homelss…. and your car is repoed..that has nothing to do with me.
HE IS BLAMING ME B/C I was nervous and anxious for two months. New job… and always wondering.. IF HE WAS FOR REAL OR TAKING ADVANTAGE OF ME.
I was right… and my fear and alarms were accurate….
and now he tells me he cheated b/c I DROVE HIM TO IT WITH MY ANXIETY.
Ive gotta somehow get dressed for work. more coffee please.


Kittylover –
you made me cheat because my cheating worried you? UGH what insane circular logic sociopaths use.


I love it strong. Basement apartment. that is where mine belongs Please help me to be strong enough to make that happen. 🙂


His Plan B has taken place and sad to say it’s his own son.
This finally came to light, DUH on my part.
His plan all along was to get himself established on disability and stay home and be the house husband.
But no no, you can’t survive just on disability payments. You need another person to live with, someone who has a real job.
His promised of working always happened, for a month or so for one reason or another he could not work full time….
He needed a nice comfy house to live in so he could sleep and watch TV all day while I was at work.Sure he would cook dinner and do a couple loads of laundry, who wouldn’t?
When he realized that this stay at home and not work plan was not going to fly with me he behind my back enlisted his just turned 20 son who grew up in small town southern Florida without a father for most of his life was coming to town for a few months. This was all planned while the two of us were making plans to move in to my house.
Where will he stay I asked..what is he coming for? Why isn’t he in school?
Apparently they had it all worked out and his son just could not wait to meet me. He is such a wonderful kid, you’ll see. He can stay in the apartment that he was going to sublet to one of his unemployed lazy friends. His son was going to work a construction job and save some money for school. He had already purchased a bus, yes, I said bus ticket for him and was on his way.
Wait, what??? His son was going to come to town and nothing was stopping this, and he could not wait for me to meet him He went on and on how good looking and wonderful he was. He was supportive of our relationship, not like the older son who was brainwashed like his mother.
He was going to whip this kid into shape and I believe the plan was for this kid to move into my house too. Oh boy!
The son was to arrive the day after my birthday…hmmmm.
Well after I was setting boundaries he realized that Plan B, the son working and helping with the bills, taking care of daddy was a better option than being with a woman with a woman that has a voice and a mind..
After the blow up on my birthday,in retrospect was a blessing in disguise.
I received text messages that the kid was working and he was enjoying making dinner for him.
His plan of living off the system was working! What in the world did he need me for?
After he tried to lure me with the”I’m horny” text messages and I declined he gave up.
It all makes perfect sense to me now.
The ring was just a token I guess.
It never meant a thing.
I’m sure that his son will see who his dad really is and catch the next bus(hopefully flight) back to school!
Pheww.I feel much better now.


Watch out, after the son leaves he may be back trying to suck you oh again. That is why no contact is so important. Don’t let him back into your life no matter what pity play our love bombing he uses.


Thank you! I know no contact is critical. I have been going through this since 2006.
I waited for him to come back, he did. It took another almost 2 years to finally realize that I do not want a man like this in my life.
I deserve better and I will not accept anything less.


The son went back home. No surprise.
I have not heard a thing…birdies chirpin!
Then again I have him blocked like Fort Knox!


One more reason to breath a sigh of relief… Picture the whole thing in real time: With the son, who wasn’t fathered, who comes to find out the reasons he wasn’t and finds the reasons that this reunion was a really bad idea. And you’re in the mix with a loyalty to the fiance, trying to make this sad mess not look like the sad mess it is to find out that impossible and you just made sad for the whole witless, rash endeavor. Ugh.

I hope you kept the ring.


Damn right I kept the ring.
I found out where he bought it and that I can return it without a receipt!
Shopping spree for me!


The son is still here. I met him last night. I couldn’t resist as I wanted to see the spath in action with his son who will be returning home next week.
LONG story short.
Ok, who the f is that man, my expath who was at dinner last night with me and his son?
He was so different but what the heck did I expect?
I just had to see it with my own eyes.
I am happy to walk away and say buh bye sociopath!



I think this is much simplier than it seems to be. I’ll be a bit blunt. I don’t mean it to be hurtful and hopefully being direct will instead be helpful.

So far in an overall picture I see (on quick read):
– “found out he was in prison in 2009 for drug charges”
– married while with you
– disappeared for many years without explanation to you.

That’s all you need to know. This is ALL you need to know to make a decision. And you KNOW this information. You KNOW it’s factual.

There aren’t any lies to believe or “trust”. You already know facts above about him, that you believe because they are flat out true. It’s that simple. They are BY THEMSELVES enough to know this isn’t relationship material, not a nice person, and not someone who will ever be a committed loving caring spouse material.

Move on.

There’s nothing to discuss (beyond your feelings of loss and hurt). There’s nothing to figure out. There is NO contact to have because this isn’t a person to have in your life.

It doesn’t matter what he says about how he feels about you. It doesn’t matter if he’s a cheater or not a cheater. You already KNOW how he acts (see 3 item list above), and it’s basic non-relationship material. He may be wonderful this way or that way — but he’s not, and those three facts are absolute about that.

It’s like dating a permanently-disease-infected dog, and trying to decide if he’s cute enough and loving enough to snuggle with. It doesn’t matter.

If someone told you they were dating someone with these past behaviors for a first date, would you tell them to go on the date, or buy a nice flower for themselves and find a friend to go to the movies with instead?

Sex is better in committed trusting relationships. So you aren’t missing anything there either.

So, change your house keys (all of them!!). Tell him it’s over and you never want to come in contact again. Then block his number and email addresses and change every single password to email and finances. Set up safe practices (he sounds pretty incredibly creepy so you may need a house alarm system or other cautionary ways of handling a breakup.) And get happy looking for normal guys.

If you are clean from drugs and alchohol (I don’t know if you had addictiosn or it’s not relevent for you), date only guys who have been clean for a year. If you are still using, get clean for a year before dating anyone. (Harder to do than say but worth it, and worth focusing on getting the help needed to get there.)

If this all isn’t pretty incredibly self-evident, and you can afford it, find a good therapist to talk about what you want in a relationship and what boundaries you would like to set in them.

The hardest part about manipulative people is that they take your power away. So while I’m being blunt the bottomline is this is YOUR life, and YOUR decision, so if anything I said doesn’t ring true or is offputing — ignore it, and do what YOU want and know is right FOR YOU.




Just in case I worded things badly — I understand completely the draw into things with someone even when the data is there, that there’s a problem. I was just trying to take a step back to the big picture, where it’s eaiser (I’m hoping) to see and then keep in heart and mind to arm you and keep you stronger.


I am here for support and to vent like everyone else.
I find your posts somewhat bullying.
I post here because I am in recovery and do understand that he is , our relationship was not normal.
Thats why I am here.
Donna and this website has saved my life. It helped me to understand what in the world was going on.
When I was with him in 2006 after he disappeared I was in therapy for months and not once was I told about this type of person, the sociopath. He actually did attend a session with me when he came back into town and after ward the therapist told me that he lied the entire 2 hour session… I did not know until he came back into my life ..he did everything I asked him to do. He got a divorce, a job and FYI I am not, nor is he a drug addict.
Once he had his hooks in me with the engagement ring he thought he could just return to his bad behavior.
Anyway, I am NC, I do understand now that he is a low life douchbag with a penis that rocked my world and he knew it.
You will see this comment in almost all of the posts. They are big dicked smooth talkers. Sorry if that’s offensive but its true.
I’m not the only woman I’m sure to tell him how wonderful he is in bed.That adds to their illness.
Once again, I post here so that I don’t contact HIM.
I get it, he’s bad news. He’s a stalker. He’s a creep. I lost all of my friends because of him. I can still see the look of disgust on my sisters face when I even mention his name, not to mention my only child still mad at me.


Stronginthecity, keep venting here it really does help to get it all out of your mind & to sort out every bit of the craziness these sociopaths planted in our minds. Your doing the right thing by venting 😉


Thank you Jan7..
I don’t know how much more of this I can take.
I just got off the phone with my ex husband, who is not the socio, he has terminal cancer and called to tell me that his mother passed away.
My poor daughter has been going through all of this and didn’t tell me anything.
I feel terrible and selfish for not being there for her. She pushed me away and I was tying to respect her wishes.
Truth be told, I didn’t want her to see me like this.
I need to get out of this house.


Stronginthecity, your welcome. I am sorry to hear about your ex’s mother. It’s ok to be selfish when you are going through all the turmoil that the sociopath put you through. Their hell is like none other.

You daughter will understand…now you can be there for her.

I like the saying: When you know better you do better.

Dont beat yourself up over all the past few months.

Getting out of the house is a good thing 😉

take care



Like I said, I wrote the post without realizing that it was to things that were a month old. So it no longer made sense. It might have if I’d posted at that time, but now you are well past that place, and it sounds ridiculous to where you are now. I’d already posted it — so i couldn’t remove it or modify it. I added a comment after when I realized. And another comments afterward because I suspected it wasn’t reading the way I’d intended.

Can you clarify? I’d like to understand and try to adjust.

On addiction, i added it in case it was relevant, but added teh clause that I didn’t know if it was for you. I hadn’t read enough posts or wasn’t sure if I’d mix them up — but had no idea if it had anything to do with you, but it’s so important when it is involved.

My worry was when I saw you saying “I don’t know if he loves me” and other wiggling thoughts. And I thought, the big picture has enough issues, that I was hoping to point that out more — so that the smaller questions that might pull you back in, no longer mattered.

Sounds good. The post I’d responded to, hadn’t gotten it yet, and was asking for strong words reminding you of the problems. It was late and I mixed up the dates when I read the posts and realized it after I’d posted. But that was what I was responding to.



I had gathered that things had seemed normal before he left, and you didn’t discover all the discord and crazy until after he came back. … and that’s how he was able to do his manipulation.


It’s ok curls, you have the right to post here like anyone else.
Just be aware that the people who post here are super sensitive and in real pain.
I don’t know if you have gone through this yourself, I get the feeling you are a social worker of some type and giving advice.
Please read all the posts before you give advice.


Curls, can you share your story with us why you found your way to Lovefraud?

You said your story was different then others on this wonderful site.



I have to head out now (with family). I think I will try to do that (when I’m home again). Thank you for asking.



I’m not sure how to write this at all. Or if I have good words.

I’ll start with how I got to the site. That’s simple and straight forward.

I’ve been working for a number of years with a therapist. I’m a little past 50. At some point she determined that a really rotten thing from my 20s was the root cause of why everything seemed to be a mess in my world.

At times, I’ll search something on the internet, pick up a piece of info, or experience of someone, or have an interaction, and it will turn out to make the next piece of work happen.

Right before coming here, I’d gotten a notice of a reply to a comment I’d written a while ago, to an article that was 2-3 years old. That article wasn’t very meaningful to me, but there was a link that got my attention, and on that article a reference to here.

Once here in one of the first comments I read, was someone’s description of what the man they’d had in their life did to their daughter. (She didn’t specifically say pedophile, but it seemed to be implying that.)

It was the very first time I’ve seen a set of words written or said, that matched a piece of the headgame that was played on me.

I needed that. That was a big, huge deal.

I wrote something saying so (what it meant to me), but it didn’t get picked up, or noticed. I was feeling invisible.

Then I stayed and it clicked for something else (nothing specifically on the site), but very, very helpful.

I figured that was it, since the site wasn’t feeling like a direct match to my situation and like I don’t, like it’s not the place, right for me to be here.

But then I stayed. I’m not sure why — but whenever I’ve put myself somewhere that’s not making sense at the moment, it’s later turned out to be for a reason, and often stunningly so.

I’m going to post this, then continue.



I’ve gone through something but it’s extremely different. I posted a little of it very early on. Haven’t since.

I’m not a social worker. I’m not giving advice. I don’t know what’s right for anyone else — because no one can know what’s right for another person. I’m trying to give feedback that reflects the person’s own thoughts. It’s often annoying at first, but then really helps get a person grounded back into themselves — and get at their power and anger. In person in life, I’m usually very good, at least according to people throughtout my life, but online remote, is different…

I’m a little hestiant to post my problem, and I guess trying to figure that out. It’s very different, and a lot of this doesn’t apply — but I was draw to this site. So probably there is something here I need to help sort out this puzzle. We’ll see.

Probably if I was posting my problem, my posts would look less like advice.


I do not find your posts helpful. I am extremely sensitive right now they are coming off offensively and I respectfully asking you to decline adding your not helpful advice as it’s putting me in a yucky place.
You said that you have not been through this and find this site “interesting”.
For me and some of the others it’s a lifeline.
Please respect my request as there are others that might find your advice useful, I do not.




But you said not a problem in reply to me. (“It’s ok curls, you have the right to post here like anyone else.”) Then I posted this which is about -me- not you, in response. It wasn’t about you.

The only thing that was intented to be in response to you, was to answer to you that I’m not a socal worker and not trying to give advice.

“You said that you have not been through this and find this site “interesting”.”

This isn’t what I said at all. Not remotely. I said I HAD been through stuff. And that this site seemed to be resonating and looked like it might be a place for me to get some help that I need. Only that my stuff is very different in some ways that makes it hard to know whether to post about it.

I was focusing on me, and finally working up the nerve to say a little more about myself.

Obvioulsy not a fit with your stuff. Good luck with your healing.


Thank you Surprised!
I thought I was to only one seeing this.
I(we)are extremely vulnerable right now.
I personally am going through a living nightmare.
Thank you again for your support as it is definitely needed right now.


I am an addict.
A major addict.

It will literally take a power stronger than myself to leave this person behind.

I am soooo confused.

Has anyone ever been so ill… so addicted… that they just surrender to their addiction?

I do not know what else to do.

Help me Lord. Universe. Please.

DO NOT WORRY… I would never ever ever harm myself… LOVE MY PARENTS too much…
but I have actually had the thoughts of how just dying.. cancer.. car accident… would just be easier b/c I cannot get out of this myself.

AND….. Id rather die than feel the pain again of his abandonment. It is unreal. Ive had it before….. but now it is worse b/c I am older… more alone… more of a failure.

I hope I do not upset anyone with this “rawness”.




Pretty sure you’re not going to upset anyone with your “rawness” on here! Yes, you are addicted to him. Just remember, that’s the bond HE created. You are strong enough to leave this person behind. You already made the biggest step by leaving him….congratulations!!! 🙂 It may not feel like it at this time, but the fact you left and that you’re reaching out, that’s strength! Strength you have in yourself!!

I think many of us have wanted to “surrender” at times. I remember being where you are now. Not wanting to die or to inflict pain on myself, but just wanting to get the pain over with. Driving and wishing for an accident, leaving my house unsecured so my ex stalker could just enter and kill me and get it over with…. It seems like it’d be the easy way out. In the end we prevail. It will get better! YOU are a FIGHTER. Keep fighting!!!



I went through that wishing to die in an accident phase as well. I knew every place on my daily commute that an accident would most likely be fatal due to a plunge into a ravine or whatever. Eventually it occurred to me – why was I wishing that *I* would die in an accident? There were too many people who loved me and would miss me when I was gone. That is when I started turning the thoughts around to wishing the sociopath would have a fatal accident. There were a few people (parents, siblings etc) that might miss the sociopath, but ultimately it would make no big difference in anyone’s life but my own if the sociopath were suddenly gone. Plus it would be just a little less evil in the world.

One day, I decided that the sociopath wasn’t even worth that much of my energy, so I stopped wishing for an accident. That was step one of eventually taking matters into my own hands and getting out for good. There will be no going back for evil.


I am so sorry to hear the pain you felt and probably still do on some level but way to go overcoming that dark feeling and being able to talk about it.
I am still in disbelief over how these evil people are among us and the way they just go about their lives as if nothing happened.
I am still learning about this and how to stay away.
I do love having my life back and hoping that he just moves on preferably far far away from me.
PS There’s something that is still stuck in my head.
He always told me he loved me so much because I was the female version of him….



xoxoxox… glad you are feeling better today.

I do not “miss” mine either…. but I do not look fwd to seeing him at RO hearing Monday morning.
He and I both know what he did.
Should I look him right in the eye… to show I am not afraid?

Lawyer from legal aide has not contacted me yet.


Hi Kitty,
How are you doing today?
I see that your court date is coming up and asking if you should make eye contact with him..
Personally I would not. To me, that look will be in your head.
Is there a court advocate that will be there for support?
Reason I ask is there was one there when I went with my sister when she had one filed on her ex.
Someone should contact you today. If not give them a call.
Ask if you can wear sunglasses so that you can avoid eye contact.
Hugs to you.
You are stronger than you think.
You have really come a long way in just a few weeks.


I am having a terrible night.
I communicated with douche lord and now I feel terrible and stupid .
No contact no contact no contact.
It’s the only way.
No text. No phone. No meeting for lunch no nothing.
I am feeling horrible again and was doing so well.
More false promises and bullshit nonsense double talk.
Run my friend.
Cut all ties. Don’t look back.
Move if you can.
It’s a horrible addiction.
He is going again to see his stupid crazy family out of state and hopefully Will stay there and ruin someone else’s life.
He is nothing but a fucking fucked up loser and I hate him.
Go pedal your crazy bullshit somewhere else.
Not so stronginthecity.



I’m so sorry. He is a loser and I can identify with your hate. I can identify with breaking NC. It makes my heart ache to see you being so hard on yourself. Just think of this as a reality check. Clearly you have been reminded by his bs once again! Every step we take, regarless if we break NC makes us stronger. It won’t be as hard this time as it was the last. Or at least it won’t take as long to get back to where you were. You’re still ahead of the game. One step back, two steps forward. You’ve got this!!!


Thank you. I had to medicate myself last night because I felt like I was having a nervous breakdown. L must have woke up 5 times.
I feel a bit better this morning knowing he will be leaving town tomorrow morning.
The last week was a bunch of shady bs talk about family drama that made so sense and thank goodness only saw him one time.
It’s so easy to see right through it now but the pain is the same.
Thank you!


I feel like the worlds biggest loser…I believed his BS again and once again he made me feel like we never talked about any of it.
Last weekend, against my better judgement I went to dinner with him and his son. I was so wanting to see how he behaved around his son. Of course he was the loving perfect parent.I felt like I was having dinner with a stranger.
The son who came here to work and live with him for 4 months..while we were in the midst of making plans to move in together. He made sure the kid was arriving on my birthday, without talking to me about it at all until the kid was already on the bus. See above rant about my birthday. The ticket was bought for him to leave on my actual birthday.
He then picked a fight on my birthday and then breakup # who’s counting at this point.
Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago when I met him for lunch, I AGAIN fell for his”life plans with me” story. I knew he would be leaving to drive the kid back home, about a 14 hour drive and visit the crazy family and asked if I wanted to fly down spend some time there and drive back with him. I said I would look into it with work and all, he asked me again right in front of his son last weekend but all this week whenever I talked to him he never asked about it again, and barely made time to see me before he was to leave(today). My mind was going crazy. He wanted me to move to Florida with him, he was going to look at some properties while he was there, blah blah. He made no plans to see me at all and I received a text message last night at 8:30 that he was sorry that he didn’t call me all day that he was having family drama. Yeah right. I was furious because I knew he was lying. But he loves me….
I went to sleep and didn’t respond until this morning with a sarcastic text saying that it was ok, have a great vacation.
He responded, oh thanks babe, I knew I could count on you. REALLY?? He then said that his son was going to say goodbye to his mother and asked if I would be home…
I responded that the text I sent was sarcastic and that I didn’t appreciative being invited on a trip..(I have a full time job, he is a bum) and told him that I had met someone else while we were apart that didn’t make my stomach sick and I wanted to pursue that relationship.
I then forwarded him a link to a website(not this one) that explains sociopaths..with pictures and within a minute started calling me..mind you he didn’t respond to the text telling him I met someone else. I didn’t answer, he tried several times but I knew exactly what he would say..”that’s so insulting” that’s his stock reply when I call him out on BS.
This was all this morning. I am feeling relieved knowing that he is most likely on the road…the family reunion is waiting.. hope he will stay there as his lease will soon be up on his apartment.
I am done. I can’t go through this again but you are right, either he was behaving worse than usual or I have finally given up on being treated like a puppet.
Thats how I feel, once he knew that I was on board with his plans to move with him it all changed. Stupid me.
So glad he is gone.


I can relate to many elements of your recent experience. It will go on and on forever until the victim decides it’s going to stop in her life.

I gave my ex psychopath a lot of chances for a long time and kept going back again and again and again. When nothing changes and the spath kept harming me again and again and again, in retrospect it looks like a mistake. I looked at it like this: at least I now know for sure that he isn’t going to change, and I will never second guess myself and wonder if I didn’t give him enough chances. Instead of feeling “stupid” or “like a loser” consider that you now know beyond any doubt that you’re doing the right thing for yourself going no contact.

I’m sorry you went through another round of pain and suffering at the hands of someone who does nothing but bring you down and exploit you because that’s what he wants to do.


Also, even better for you than hoping he’ll stay gone is that you can protect yourself from him by refusing to have any contact with him no matter where he is. As much as you don’t think about him and what he’s doing, and don’t go on social media looking at stuff to do with him; you are taking control over his access to you. He doesn’t deserve to have access to you. You can spend your time and attention on people who deserve you.


Yes, him leaving right now is good as it puts some distance between us.
I feel like I can breathe now and stop thinking about what he did and said.
I want to get back to the “I don’t care” point again.


You are so right.
Thank you.
I gave him enough chances..
I know for sure.
I am hoping this horrible feeling will pass quickly.
Thank you.



You are anything but a loser. Look at all you are doing for others on this site alone.

Love Fraud Fam…

yesterday I watched a snippet on mosquitos. I am one of theose folks who get eaten alive… and yet my dad would not get one bite!

Guess what? They have proven… that mosquitos can smell/sense our DNA..


and then they suck the blood out of you…..

and move onto another person with the attractive and vulverable DNA that so pleases him.

I love you all.

I have a huuuuuge work week at the Nursing home. I have to focuS.
What… am I going to damage my career and job and reputation b/c I am obsesses with a mosquito?????

I just wish I knew what was real and what was not real.

Sadly…… I do not even think my spath knew or knows. It is kind of sad actually. His exwife of 22 years… 3 kids…. said he used to be an amazing man. He has gone downhill the past 5 years or so. His dad died in his 20’s at Vietnam…. so we do not know what is genetic or what.

LOve you all. Please send positive vibes my way for this week.

thank you all for your support and honesty…. please do not give up on me until I tell you to give up on me.




Sorry to just now be responding! I had to step back for a few days. It hurts my heart to know you’re going through all of this and that you are hurting so much right now. What a nightmare! The thing I’ve realized about breaking NC….we get stronger each and every time. I believe you will find yourself back in the “I don’t care” state of mind sooner than later. How are you doing today? How are you doing with the NC?

Every time we talk to them, we risk falling into their trap yet again. I know with me that sometimes when I break NC it’s because I need the reminder (further proof) of what he is. It’s almost like you knew that if you played with fire, pressed the red button to meet with him and his son, you would find the proof/reminder of what he is! You suggested that’s why you initially met with him and then you got sucked back in. They have no power over us if we stay NC. How quickly they can turn things around and then show their true selves again!

You are being so hard on yourself. You are not “stupid” or a “loser”, even if you feel that way about breaking NC. You were not stupid in your actions. This is HIM creating this. You deserve so much more! You deserve the love I know you have for yourself. You are a caring person who got trapped by a con. You are a fighter, which is why you’ve come this far. You may have broken NC and started the fall into his trap but then you realized once again….

Congratulations! You didn’t fall back. You may be hurt and angry, but you are moving forward. You are saying NO MORE. You are learning more and becoming wiser, not the other way around.


Thank you for the support. I am doing much better. Thank you for asking.
I know, once and for all that there is no future with this man. It was fafe, phoney a lie a bunch of crap.
I don’t know or care where he is right now.
He actually had his brother text me Thursday while I was in a meeting at work(because I have spaths texts and phone calls blocked)expath tried to call 2 times Thursday and it was blocked by my privacystar app. Brother…he is a spath too said something about a FB something or other and asked if I was the one who posted blah blah and wanted me to take it down because expath was staying witn spath mother in Florida and he didnt want mom to be subjected to expaths rants.
Wait, what ..I texted him back that I was at work, in a meetinag and was not on FB and didnt care about the drama.
I also told him, the brother taht I didnt know what was going on but please dont involve me with the drams. He apoligized and has not bothered me since.
I am done. I am at THE point that I don’t care what he is doing or the lease on his crappy basement apartment and his kids that are living in his house in Florida and probably as sick of his crap as I am.
I DONT CARE if he will be homeless because he does not have a place to live and can’t afford to live off his SSI payments. How about getting a job??????
I have chronic pain and go to work everyday. Deal with it.
The last week when he really avoided me because Im sure his kids were not on board with me flying down for the family reunion (eye roll). I don’t care but I was trying to juggle my work schedule to get time off beacuse he invited me and then never brought it up for an entire week…well that is just plain rude.
Why did I think he would do anything differently?
Thank you again for your kind words and support.
I am actually going to go to the grocery store and grill up something good today. Something healthy and yummy just for me.
When I was with the expath after working all week and the long commute, he would make me feel guilty for wanting to sleep in on Saturday morning after he slept in and took daily naps…unbeliveable.
He made me exhausted all of the time. If I did have energy, he would create drama to leave me anxious and feel crazy.
None of this is exagerated, if anything I am down playing all of the craziness because my mind can only process so much at a time.
I’m hoping that he is either seeing the exwife again or had been grooming someone else because he knew that I would call him out on hi BS all of the time. She put up with it for 30 years and I don’t think she is done even though he divorced her…
I’m going to get dressed and go to the store to make a nice dinner for ME!



I’m glad to know you are hanging in there and taking care of yourself! One of my favorite things to do to get myself back on track is to cook a nice dinner. I especially love grilling and sitting outside. It helps me to feel more at peace. Great minds think alike! 🙂

You came so close to letting your spath back in, but you didn’t! You thought he might be different because that’s what they do. Lie, lie, lie to try and convince us. Their promises are painful, especially when they set up a vision of our future and drop it like they never said anything. It throws us off and makes us confused. That’s what they want. Is for us to be confused. By keeping us on edge and uncertain is one of the ways they keep control over us. Unfortunately for them, once we are stronger, it doesn’t work, which is why you are able to stay away.

Mine also kept me exhausted. It was horrible. It’s one of the things I miss the least! And like yours, the times I wasn’t exhausted and felt better he would try to convince me how unhappy I was and would crazy make more than ever!

I’m uneasy about the fact he had your brother contact you. Make sure to document that. My first spath used friends to contact me. It was one of the first things he did before his stalking began. By him having his brother contact you shows he’s amping up his game. I can’t say what his intentions are, but be careful and stay aware. Better safe than sorry!

As for his brother bringing up the FB post you didn’t write…it sounds like your ex told him that to convince his brother to contact you. It’s part of the pity play. Try to not respond to texts or answer your phone if you get an unknown call.

Enjoy your nice dinner, and keep staying strong!! 🙂


I agree with Thistoo- ignore and refuse to respond to any proxy contacts. Nothing good can possibly come from it and you may just be feeding the trolls.


Dearest Strong…..
my heart is heavy. I am scared and beyond sad. I am calling the hotline now from my office. I DO NOT WANT TO CALL.
he does not hit me. will not b/c he will lose his job.
but what he has done is literally hundreds of times worse. I get sick to even think about it. Really sick. I have even vomited. Please think of me now. I do not want to make this call.



Let it out girl!


I need my LF Sisters right now.

I am at work.

I cant focus…. and I am even on a low dose of Adderrall from my dr.

I have a complete Recreation calendar due in two hours.

My hands are shaking as I type.

I cant stop thinking about my situation.

I found out who it was.. an ex…. but I do not care… although I feel sorry for her.

but how do I get thru this day and get this project done? I cannot lose my job?

People have noticed at work that I have not been myself in two weeks.

I could have a great life and career if I could get thru this….

My heart is racing. I am sweating and I am a skinny little thing who shivers all day in the AC of Florida. My hands are shaking.

Please pray for me or send positive energy/healing/vibes… whatever it is each of you do.

God bless you all. Huge cyber hug.

ill keep checking my messages as I am working….



I am sorry I don’t have any good advice for you on how to focus. The racing thoughts and shakes are awful and I am lucky I didn’t lose my job during the discard. I don’t want to second guess your doctor, but I am wondering if the Adderall is helpful if you don’t have ADD.

Take a deep breath. Focus on something nice – a flower, the sunshine outside, how nicely aligned the papers in your inbox are, anything. Then transfer your thoughts to “recreation calendar” and plow on through by sheer willpower. I used to find it helped if I allowed myself 5 minutes of worry for every 30 minutes of work I did, but I had to work the *whole* 30 minutes to earn the 5 minutes.

Good luck kitty. We are with you.


My support and understanding lf fam… I’m not doing well. I’m hurting. I’m soooooooooo sad. Angry. Hopeless. I don’t even want to go to ro hearing but I must. My company that fired him will not even come w me. Coworkers who saw? Nope.



My comment of good luck with your healing was meant to be a nice wrap up … a way to say a positive nice supportive thing, while moving away from her as requested by her. There was nothing sacrastic or dismissive about it. It was geninuely meant.

Tone of voice doesn’t come through online.


I am also vunerable right now. I tried to express some of that, and to say that, that last post was about me.

Stronginthecity — I posted that one post with advice, but not since then. Not sure what in the later ones that is readng as advice. But nothings meant to, so ignore it if it — and figure I didn’t word it well.

I will give one comment though
“Hell, I ring his answerphone just to hear his voice. Messed up, aye?”

In a way it’s messed up, but it’s also very, very normal :).


I don’t know if posting my situation will clear things up … or be different enough to get me into a negative place, where it’s not understood…. still trying to figure that out.


Jan7 and surprised,
Jan I saw the comment where you invited that person to share their story.No reply.
Surprised, thanks for the back up just when I needed it.
Hopefully he/she will just go away but I am jaded as well because prior to that I felt safe and comfortable here.
I guess there’s always one in the bunch.
All of the other LF members have been kind and respectful but seriously I felt triggered by the comments from that person.
Something that none of need right now.
Lets hope that Donna will see that as well.
Have a peaceful and drama free evening.


I am the same way.
My expath would always tell me that I should have been a cop.
Call me detective. .
You are smarter than him because you got away. .
I’m sure Donna has the email address that person used to sign up here.
Doesn’t sound like the rantings of a sociopath.
Sounds umm shall I say disordered.
Let’s just not respond to anything.


stronginthecity, surprised and Jan7,

I’ve trusted curls and have been trying to view this from all sides, however I’m going to have to agree with you on this one. Something isn’t right. Too much unsolicited advice. Is able to freely use labels except when applied to her/his situation? Confusing, not to mention controlling. Surprised, you’ve expressed to curls that you are uncomfortable and would like for her/him to not respond to your posts. That has not been respected.

All of these correspondances remind me of conversations from my ex and the posts remind me of emails from him. His emails never made sense and when he tried to send me loving make-up emails he would seem absolutely shocked when I told him his emails made no sense.

Looking back over posts he/she also seems very informed about spaths and why they do what they do..has very clear explainations for their behavior. Not saying people can’t be informed. Some people on here are very knowledgable about spaths but approach it with sensitivity.

Stronginthecity, as we know spaths are disordered and sneaking. I’m not ruling out a spath at this point….


Thank you, thank you!
One thing about mine is that he did not use email or social media only thing he knew how to do so he claimed was to look up teen porn…eye roll.
Anyway I’m saying that I don’t know what an email from one would look like and I am assuming the above post from c.
I felt uncomfortable with the responses from the very beginning and asked him/her to stop giving me advice.
The ramblings were coming across loud and clear with the double talk and I didn’t say that, your imagining it so on so forth we all know what I’m talking about.
Thanks for your support as my posting is all over the place on here but that’s how it happened.
I have reported my concerns to Donna and I hope you all do the same.
I am getting stronger everyday.
Thank you,



“The ramblings were coming across loud and clear with the double talk and I didn’t say that, your imagining it so on so forth we all know what I’m talking about.” Exactly. The back and forth that seems helpful, yet you have to reread because there are statements that cut you down and are invalidating at the same time. I’ve ridden that rollar coaster 100s of times!

Your ex couldn’t use social media or email but child porn wasn’t a problem? Surprise, surprise!! I’m adding to your eye roll right now. My spaths loved their porn and my first spath was obsessed with touching himself! He lived with his hand down his pants, even when his teenage son was around. Yuck. We actually got in a ton of arguments about it. How ridiculous is that?!

I’m happy you’re getting stronger every day. Me too! Yay for us! This journey is exhausting and so difficult. I pray every day for healing to come sooner that later…just wish sooner was right now!


Yes, that seems to be a common bond they of their penis.
Another thought just “popped” no pun intended, LOL and I did actually laugh..feels good to do that by the way..
He would lay on my bed after sex or while I was doing my hair, putting on makeup, sigh that man never left me alone..we even showered and brushed our teeth together..
Anyway way I was going to say was that he would admire his penis lovingly and would ask he all the time what made it so beautiful..was it the head, or the lovely circumcision, the length, diameter?
He also loved me to take pictures of him naked and fully erect, absolutely loved it. He would pose with that snarly grin on his stupid face.
For someone who didn’t want their business aired on the internet..he was always the first one to jump in front of a camera.
He was interviewed for the news a couple of times and I found out a couple of days later..oh did I mention I was interviewed for the Cubs construction? Huh, what??? Ah no you did not. All you have to do is Google cubs renovation and there you are stupid.
I am shaking my head just thinking about it. He looks like a street person and all he was worried about was that they spelled his name right..
I certainly can relate with your post.
I tell myself I am getting stronger everyday…I have to.
I have to finish my taxes today.
Oh no,that is triggering something that happened last year around this time…trying to get my taxes done and asked him to stay at his place till I was done.
Instead he decided to come over with a friend a lawnmower, leaf blower with power cords running through my house as i was trying to finish my work…
I WILL get them done today..I WILL!


Thistooshallpass & Stronginthecity,

Stronginthecity, my ex was the same way, you are the first to post about taking showers together & brushing teeth together.

In the begaining I told him that I loved hot showers…well I know now anything that I said I “loved” he would insert himself into that or would say over and over “I hate that” to brain wash me not to like it anymore.

As for the shower eventually I would sneak into the shower so I could have alone time but he would come into the bathroom and either get mad at me for not telling him that I was taking a shower or he would make me feel bad if I told him I wanted to take a shower by myself. He of course would guilt trip me and get in the shower and especially in the winter would make me stand in the cold while he was under the shower head enjoying the shower. I look back and it was all part of his sick twisted mind game to control me and every min of my day.

At the time I would be upset that he would not listen to me not wanting to take every shower with him but you just get to a point you dont want to fight anymore so you just give in to their crazy demands. This is what society does not get….they just say “well why didnt you just leave”…it’s because they have your mind so twisted up you dont know which was is up and which was is down. They have reprogramed your brain. It’s all about them crossing your boundaries to control you.

Thistooshallpass, you state “His emails never made sense and when he tried to send me loving make-up emails he would seem absolutely shocked when I told him his emails made no sense.”

It’s called “Word Salad” (google) when they dont make any sense. My ex was the same way and reading Curls post I was like what did I just read? So I read it again because I did not know how to respond to her/his post of what happened to him/her. I have decided not to respond because it reminds me of my ex’s emails too when I left him and before. I have not responded to any of her/his post before you all brought up the same reasoning…seems like he/she is a pot stirrer who has studied some therapy books. Not sure what is going on but it is sending up red flags especially since you all have noticed the same thing. I sent a notice to Donna too.



Ugh, these men and their penis’. Penis, penis, penis! And yours was so specific and detailed about his. Lucky you! I can’t believe we put up with their crap. Considering your ex claimed he didn’t want his business aired on the internet, do you think there’s a chance he’s posted naked pictures of himself somewhere? Just a thought. With his penis obsession, you would think he’d want the world to share his all mighty gift with!

I totally get what you’re saying about your ex dominating/controlling your time. Spath #2 (I refer to them as #1 and #2 because I dated two back to back) would wear me down. I have a very stressful job, so when I had down time I needed it. The more tired I was the more he managed my time and/or ruined times of rest. I know believe it was a brainwashing technique. If I needed to get up early the next day, he would stay up all night and find excuses to wake me up and/or pick fights with me in the middle of the night. If I had time off work he would plan trips and busy activities.

Your post also reminds me of a time when I asked him for help fixing up my bathroom. He came over and started doing another task in my house I didn’t even ask for help with and I sat around for hours annoyed that he was even there. Guess who’s bathroom he never ended up helping with? Of course not! If he did help that would mean I was in control by getting what I wanted. He was such a control freak. Sounds like yours was too, judging by your tax day last year.

You WILL get your taxes done! You’ve so got this!! And you get can get them done in peace this year. 🙂



The endless control while being with them!!! I’m so grateful to have the control of MY life back! I can’t believe you and Strong’s made you shower with them and then gave you pity plays when you wanted to shower alone. Actually, I can believe and relatein so many ways.

Mine also pushed boundries to the max and brainwashed me into believing thins I once loved I didn’t anymore. He was always showing up at my house and bringing me things. He knew I didn’t like it. I finally gave up and he could come over and bring me whatever whenever he wanted. He would even say, “See, you thought you didn’t like me doing that when we first started dating but now you love it!” Pffffff.

He convinced me I didn’t like certain friends (I’ve reconnected with them), that my family was toxic (they’re great and supporting me through all of this), that when I was getting stronger during our relationship while #1 was still stalking me that I was “unhappy” (he said that sooo many times — I WAS happier) and that I hated my job and should quit. I LOVE my job!!! So much brainwashing.

I’ll have to look up word salad. Sounds about right! He used mind games and gas lighting regularly in the end. I got to the point that Like you said about knowing up or down, I didn’t know my ass from my head at the time. I started writing every thing down and even admitted it after we broke up during a fight and he said I must of written things down wrong and questioned my mental health.

I also had to reread those posts and ones made to me over and over. What I thought were helpful posts also confused me and made me question myself. I know why now. Word salad, indeed.



I just found this online. Welcome to my world! Hahaha.

Gareth’s Word Salad – Example – A Letter

After each line of the letter I will post the translation to what he is saying in the way the translation was given to me in the beginning of my road to understanding the narcissist. I thank the friend who gave me this translation because at the same time as being correct it was humorous too which made it easier to accept the truths.

Translation In Bold

“I have worked out what I love about you and why,

I love what I cannot see, i love that intangible quality you hold,

that “thing”

that you are and always have been.

That is what tantalizes me, delights all of my senses and creates a certain emotional admiration of you”

“It explains that when I hold you there is no need for words or conversation, they limit and distort the “Pure You” inside.

“You walk into a room , you are 100%, I walk into the room with you , you look at me and try to tell me how you are feeling but you fail,

you fail because there is a set of words, a dictionary, you have been taught,

you cant make up your own words as I wont understand them,

everything you say to me will be degraded

down to 70% because all i would of received was a few words and i can only understand 30% of what you wanted me to understand

The personality you have is something that is nothing but an interpreter for YOU

Nothing you say can constitute me loving you

Whatever spirit man is inside me,

hes happy when im with you, and longs for you when im without you, hes not writing this letter, i am but i can feel he is glad i am writing this.

when something is wrong with you or me, or your doing something bad or wrong,

its like the real you….that spirit ,

shouts to me and begs my attention

saying “help” or “shes in trouble again” and in response,

my spirit or soul makes the physical me feel different usually a dwelling pain in my stomach,

which then sparks me to physically take action and find out whats going on.

I cannot say all my love for you is because I love you,

or your personality and the things you say and do. Its not.

I love whats inside you, behind all those feelings and words.

It is like there is something inside us both,

and both spirits inside us are connected and are “in love”

and we as people have to just follow those instincts ,

not ever knowing if its just looks, words, sex or personality that we love about each other.

The emotions i feel overwhelm me when we are together,

and your personality you have taken on

is a mere tunnel to the real spirit and vibe of you, the soul or aura you have drives me wild when i think about you.

You are insecure about us XXXXXXX, there is no need to be,

wake in the morning and go to sleep at night and what happens in the daytime happens, but there is something inside both of us that will always want to get closer so leave it alone,

dont worry or feel the need to govern the relationship.

Say what you feel instinctively and we will naturally get along well.

I love the spirit and soul that is in you I feel it when im with you and around you, when I cuddle up to you or lie down with you.

It is hard for me to comprehend what im saying but when im lying

against you its like there is something inside me

thats happy and that something is what i am talking about.

I dont know if you understand what im saying, and if you cant then it furthur supports what im saying.

Let us look forward we are in love much deeper than i can ever comprehend,

whatever is inside me will guide me and clear the way.

in time you will start to see the white before the black….the positive instead of the negative.

The medium of talking is poor.

Your skin like silk, your body is beautiful, your eyes so perfectly dark and deep, your hair so vibrant and attractive, your lips so lush and striking.

Your make up you wear masks

your natural beauty and can instill lust and physical desire but still does not answer the question of what and why do i love you.

So Let love thrive and enjoy the warmth it gives you.

Allay your worries and fears as there is no need for any.

All my love …is just for you

Hope it helps a lot to know im always going to be here for you……

Ineffable = unspeakable

Ecstasy = Overwhelming emotion

Intangible= Can be sensed but not physical

“Im not saying your stupid XXXXXX”


Now that I think about it, bits and pieces are coming back as I am healing he knew exactly what he was doing.
He used to tell me that I am the female version of him..he said it all the time.
Naive me thought aww how cute..I never really knew what he meant.
He knew exactly what he was doing.
There was a comment after we broke up he made when I told him something, it was a lie…
He replied that’s defiantly a (his name omitted ) response with that snarly laugh.



I’m not sure what’s going on. Game, truth or otherwise. I just know something feels off and I’m trusting my gut on this one. This is a safe place for all of us to post. We deserve to be heard, comforted and given nonjudgmental insight. Sometimes we word things that may come accross wrong or could be interpreted the wrong way, but it’s not a pattern. I don’t know about you, but I’m over patterns. Analyzing my spaths patterns is exhausting enough!



Thank you for your kind words and that I could help you along the way. It sounds to me like you have found some balance in your life and it’s serving you well to move forward! I hope to be there sooner than later.

I’m thankful that this site and others on here have helped you so much. You’ve come along way. You deserve the best and to never be discarded again!!

I wish you the best in your journey. We’re all here for you should the need arise to check in! xxx


Jan7, (there’s no reply button above, so I’ll post it here.)


This will probably sound very stupid. Like it’s not a big deal. Part of what makes it a big deal, is that there isn’t any place I’ve ever found to talk about it where it does fit in.

In summary form, in my early 20s just as I left school and started to adjust to being out in the world,

I went for some minor amount of help from human affairs. That person sent me to a therapist he knew (now I know what he did was illegal and could have / would have gotten him fired).

That therapist in a matter of months completely turned my world upside down. The crazymaking mess that people here describe — that’s the kind of thing.

I went to her, without any mental health issues. I wanted some specific info about some illnesses because I was regularly helping people with them in my family and friends.

There’s a lot more. There always is, in these types of situations. Like everyone here says.

I wound up going 2xs a week, plus to a group in the same organization. For many years. Because it was 3 therapists, and a group with members, it was harder to realize how sick and twisted things were (since everyone was acting like it was normal).

One really minor example (to give an idea) was one of the group therapists telling me that I felt guilty because I’d sexually teased my dad when I was a kid. It made no sense to me. (And it’s the type of lie that perps tell childen and therapists work to UNDO.)

The thing I’d first seen here that fit so well, was that the pedophile had told her daughter that her mother (this person) wasn’t a good mother, that her love wasn’t acceptable, that he was the only one, and that the daughter couldn’t enjoy good because that would be rewarding the bad mother.

So much of that was in what I’d come to call psuedorealities that they made up.

In other words, they tried to create for me the image of abuse from my non-abusive family and deep damage within me when there wasn’t any.

It was something like being brainwashed and destroyed by a cult — but because it was therapists, I didn’t spot it soon enough. Everything they said at first, was within reasonable, to an untrained ear. Then it built on it’s own weird structure.

It went on for 6 years. I eventually found my way out.

It gets more complicated. I tried to find help. It didn’t work. To put it briefly, that it was therapy that was used for abuse, makes it much harder for therapists to deal with. (Including while I was trying to figure out whether to leave.)

I tried to move on, but my world kept blowing up. I’d do all the right things, and some bad mojo would come in.

There’s a three more big elements. I’ll write another time.

The therapist has been using the format of molestation and rape and other abuses to work on it, and element after element that mirrors them, has been coming up.

As i write, there are things on this site that match. It’s probably the crazy-making that makes more sense here than anyplace else I’ve looked around.

But it doesn’t fit totally well. It’s not physical. Though there was a guy involved for a while. The therapist pushed me into a relationship, that probably would have been physically abusive if it’d continued.

I’m not trying to leave. I got mad and left. There wasn’t any binding after I left (though there was a mess like that with the guy.) It was more about getting rid of the falsehoods they’d come up with, which wasn’t easy.

Now I seem to be almost at the door (exit door), but can’t seem to find it. It’s very likely the label on that door is “how she blamed me.” While I can see that, I haven’t gotten that click in my head that shifts it all.

So overall, I’m not sure why I’m here, and I’m not sure what I need.


I’m going to ask one favor. Please don’t use the words psychopath or sociopath and those type labels on this. Labels was a big part of how they did their abuse.

(Instead, I can talk about what I think, feel, what they did, how that felt.)


Oh boy, here we go again.
Try to make sense out of nonsense.
No thanks.


That’s totally ok. I completely understand.
I am hyper sensitive right now and my trust for people is less than zero, thanks spath.
I see that Donna has responded to the drama that was going on and is going to continue to let him/her post here and we are supposed to ignore it.
I am actually surprised by that but it is her web site and I am a rule follower so I will go for now.
I am sad by that but it is as it is.
Thank you and the others for your words of support and I will miss you all.
I too will stop posting here for awhile as I don’t feel safe right now with people saying things like that.
I have to find out how to stop the emails every time someone posts.


Hi Strong.
I still feel like a stunned bird.
I am at work right now however.

I found out he did not sleep with her…
and went to his pals’ homes saying he messed up.

he was freaking b/c dt my severe anxiety last two months…
I almost kicked him out twice.
so…he figured…
he’d start up a relationship with someone… so that if I kicked him out… hed have a place to go.
Then it pocket dialed me.
I caught him.
He’s gone.
he regrets.

im moving on.
and sad.
and scared.
and angry.
and tired.


You are doing great!
You are at work…just focus on work right now.
Know that it’s going to be incredibly hard but you can do it.
Ok, he rationalizes that if you kicked him out he would have somewhere to lets start a relationship with another women just in case..UHHH NO! Unfortunately that’s what they do. Always on the look out for a new back up supply when you figure out he is not prince charming.
I’m sorry to say that she is probably not the only one and your anxiety is being stirred up by his bad behavior.
Do you have a therapist from your stay for your PTSD and anorexia?
If so, maybe call him/her? Just a thought.
In the mean time when you are feeling bad learn all you can about this sociopath personality disorder.
Check out as well as Donnas videos here.
Read, read and read.
You will have many ah ha moments. I guarantee it.
You will learn and understand so that you do not fall prey to him or any other spaths ever again.
Be kind to yourself and you know those stages of grief? You will go through them but they may be a bit different from the grief of other relationship losses.
Get some rest…sleep and take care or yourself.
It’s ok to have some alone time right now.
Your friend,


This is my story.

I haven’t been posting replies to the various comments because it seemed like it’d be arguing and that didn’t seem like a good idea. At most it’d be upsetting to me (and others.) (I only read some comments, I figured they’d be upsetting to me to read.)

I said I was sorry for posting in a way that hurt you. I said and meant that it wasn’t meant that way. I haven’t commented since.

You asked me to get off my high (easy, safe) horse of advice and to get on an equal level and tell my story. I took a chance and did that. I can get pushy when I’m uncomfortable, and that happened.

My story is no weirder than any of yours. (Though it feel weirder to me.)

There really isn’t a lot more I can say. If you want to ask me questions about me or my situation, and see what you think of it, I’ll respond. Otherwise….not

I am glad I posted it. It was hard for me, and I gained some things as I wrote it up.

I was really curious what advice others would have for me on it.

Curls – I do have other cases of abusive therapists who do what you’ve described. There are some disordered people who become therapists and are run-of-the-mill exploiters. There are also therapists who set up something that could be considered like a cult. What you described are typical cult techniques.

About some of the dispute above – please keep in mind that it is very difficult to determine a person’s intent through messages written online, in an email, in a text, etc. Experts estimate that 65% to 90% of the meaning of human communication is nonverbal. What people actually mean is conveyed via tone of voice, gestures, facial expressions, body language, etc. When posting online, all of those methods of communication are missing. So written words can easily be interpreted in a way that is not what the person who wrote them intended.

We have one rule at Lovefraud – don’t attack other members.

Please cut others some slack and assume good intentions. If you find that you don’t care for what an individual is saying, just stop reading that person’s comments.

Comments have been deleted.


Thistooshallpass – I’m loving your thoughts throughout this thread especially your one little comment, “Of course not! If he did help that would mean I was in control by getting what I wanted.”

You just answered something that had put my head in knots for YEARS. My spath could never give me all of what I wanted. I’m not talking about big stuff either, I accepted such crumbs from him that the little stuff was my “big” stuff. Whether it was to be on time for once, do something that I wanted to do, follow through on things he said he would do for me, or even just keeping a date for once (very rare that we made plans that didn’t get cancelled once, then twice, three times…and on and on). He would always have some excuse for prolonging or avoiding what I wanted. If I complained I was “selfish, needy, or childish”. I remember thinking so many times, if he cares about me so much then why, just ONCE, can’t he just give me what I want. It is easy to see that his behavior was controlling, but your statement explains the “why” of it. As long as he never gave me 100% of anything, then he had the edge; he had control. Dang, I’m laughing at myself here over how ridiculously obvious it is now. Thank you for that because it puts a little piece of my mind to rest.

Still working on the rest of what’s in my mind over my experience. But being here helps. My spath shows up in all of these posts. It’s almost uncanny really. Is human behavior so predictable that all these spaths somehow evolve to the same behaviors or do they actually research how to take advantage of people? Mine would actually say things that suggested he knew exactly what he was doing. Things like, “I could tell you what you want to hear to get what I want, but I don’t want to do that to you”. Of course, giving me that false sense of security (I care about you too much to do that to you) made it easier for me to believe when he told me what he knew I wanted to hear, and of course then got what he wanted. That’s just one example, I have many more. I think he was always telling me what he was doing to me, but I let my own denial ignore the idea that he would do those things to me. We were “real”, he and I, not like all those other people that he could never trust and loved to see hurt. (Laughing some more at myself thinking about it).

Stronginthecity – Hugs to you.


LoveLiesBleeding7 ,

Thank you for your message. Sorry it took so long for me to respond. My counselor has been a tremendous part of my healing and understanding the controlling behavior of my spaths. #2 was a control beast! It finally clicked recently that the reason I didn’t get certain things from him was about his control. Everything had to be about HIM, I now know it was because I was meaningless to him. If I was tired he kept me awake and busy (this served as a useful brainwashing technique too), if I wanted to be somewhere on time he would make us late. He would actually tell me how I feel and how I think, what I liked. What I didn’t like. He would tell me how to style my hair (once literally down to what hair products to use, how to blowdry it, etc), comment on my makeup, clothes and weight (I’m thin). He told me how to handle situations and other people. If I didn’t comply, holy hell! He would say kindly, “If I ask you to do something, you should listen.” He was threatening me. If I responded he would say he didn’t say that. He had to be in control of everything and play with my mind at the same time! It sounds like yours did too.

Ever notice how our spaths ruined good times for us? Times we were actually looking forward to? I’ve realized that’s because they even have to control if we’re enjoying ourselves. Sure there’s crazy making in ruining our enjoyment but in my personal experience I think it comes down to their control over us. Spath #1 was a master at ruining good times/experiences for me. I felt like if he let me have a good time I would pay right after or the next day. Sure enough, he would make me pay, every time.

Sounds like yours definitely projected his true self unto you, you were “selfish, needy, or childish”. Which in reality is what HE was. You deserved to have things you wanted”again, it was all about his needs and he wanted to twist your mind and make you feel like crap about it. False sense of security, I can certainly relate! I’m sure we all can.

I’m glad you’ve found this site and that you’re starting to have a sense of humor about certain things instead of beating yourself up over how you handled things/believed. They are mind masters of control! I’ve recently found humor in this and have to say, it’s awesome!


Yes, Thistooshallpass, sounds like our guys could be the same man. I was often told what I thought. He always had everything played out in his mind and then would tell me the scenario, including my role, and the predicted outcome. He obviously has a crystal ball in his head instead of a brain. But seriously, he spent so much time imagining things that didn’t exist in reality, that eventually I think I became a character in his script of life. Like he’s writing a story, not living a life. I got to a point that the things he would say about me were so far removed from how I see myself that eventually that drove me so crazy that it led to our final meltdown. I kept trying to understand how or why he could think so differently of me than I saw myself. I’ve known him for six years, how could he NOT know me. I’d drive myself nuts trying to figure out if he was right and I just wasn’t seeing myself and my behaviors. (Which is also a way to keep me thinking about him.) Then it finally hit me…he wasn’t listening, wasn’t seeing, he wasn’t really caring who I was. That actually drove me even more crazy as I tried to understand why he was even in my life at all if he was so indifferent to me as a person? What purpose did I serve? His theme was that he “needed me in his life to help him be a better person”. You know, I can’t even tell you exactly what it was he was hoping to “make better”. Probably nothing, he probably just knew that saying this would keep me “working” on him, trying to help him (as you point out, keep my attention on him).

And yes, everything was about him. Life happened at his convenience. I can so relate to your comments about him messing with your schedule. Mine would call in the morning and wake me up, then talk so long that I was late to work. Of course I didn’t want to cut our conversations short, it was so “thoughtful” of him to be thinking of me first thing in the morning, what a wonderful surprise, I was so happy, right? Yea right. Then other times asking me to come over late at night, then keeping me up until 3 a.m. when I had to work in the morning. But shame on me. I did it. I enabled and accommodated because I so loved him that I did whatever it took to be with him. And because in between seeing him he played endless rounds of contacting me then avoiding me for days. Always left me want more, wondering why I couldn’t have more, making me crazy and obsessed…

It was exactly like you said Thistoo, if he gave me something “nice” it was like I then had to be punished. He would go for days and not answer calls or if he replied to texts it would be in the middle of the night. I asked once what he was doing up at those hours. He would always say he fell asleep watching TV and was wide awake. I doubt it. God only knows what he’d been doing that he was still up at 3 a.m. Maybe the same thing he was doing with me some nights at 3 a.m., but with someone else. When I think of all the little ways that he manipulated my mind just with the way he controlled our communications it’s horrible really. The relentless emotional abuse that was going on but I couldn’t rationalize it because I was hurting so badly from it that I simply couldn’t see it through my pain. But see, I was going to help him get “better”, all of this pain, confusion and uncertainty was going to be worth it in the end. He was my project, he needed me. I was going to see this man get better and we were going to live happily ever after. All the years and all of the experiences I’d endured with him (because his life is endless chaos and drama, the poor man), it was all going to work out…

You know the hardest part is that I was so enmeshed with that dream that I still can’t let go of it. I still can’t let it go. I last spoke to my spath in January and every day since then my mind still reels trying to let go of the dream. I obsess over the whole thing because it is so incredibly hard to accept that there’s probably never been a shred of love or concern in him for me. It was all a game. How could I have put so much love, hope and support into someone for so long just to find that he is cold, ruthless, and heartless. I even feel sympathetic sometimes when I consider that he can’t help it, it’s an illness, maybe I should have been more understanding, maybe I really could have helped him, maybe if I had given it a little more time, we’d still be together…the dream would still be there for me.

Then I tell myself, “dang he’s good. He found my weakness and played it so completely that even with him out of the picture, he’s still activating that weakness. I’m the eternal optimist, always thinking things can be better. Something in me still thinking that he will “see the light”, apologize, tell me he’s better and wants to make things all better for both of us now. He’s got some other woman (just two months later), probably had her when we were “together”, he flaunts his relationship with her on his facebook and I still have thoughts about, “it won’t last, I know him, I know what annoys him; normal emotions and accountability and expectations annoy him. If she’s normal she won’t last. He’ll start feeling controlled and angry. He’ll dump her and realize how good he had it with me.” How sick is that? Look at what he has done to me. What I let him do and still, at some level, can see that I’d consider doing all over again.

Boy this recovery stuff is hard.



This comment may be scattered because there are SO many things we have in common!

“he wasn’t listening, wasn’t seeing, he wasn’t really caring who I was.” You’re right, he wasn’t and he didn’t. I told spath #2 I felt it was the image of me he loved. He would defend himself. It was the image of me, at least until he realized I wasn’t the perfect woman who catered to his needs and would end up making his life oh so complicated. Both of my spaths early on said “I KNOW you.” When spath #2 said it , it triggered a traumatic response in me. He blamed it on spath #1. In reality, they didn’t know me. They thought they did. They were living in their crystal ball.

Ugh, them laying on the couch “watching TV” but being up all night. Both of my spaths stayed up all night. Both had the same schedules. Both trolling I’m sure and God knows what else. Although we know they were up to no good. In the end, I suspect spath #1 would solicit other men online to give him oral pleasure. I found some not so pleasant stuff online at the time”.I swear, the men did NOT sleep. Yet were masters of communicating with us (except when they were punishing/discarding) so we wouldn’t suspect otherwise. Even typing about it pisses me off.

Of course we were being kind when they kept us up or woke us up early to talk, talk, talk. Ugh, the talking!!! Spath #2 would not shut the hell up about himself or giving me advice. He would say the same thing over and over and over. My counselor says that’s a huge red flag, especially with how irritated it made me while I was feeling like he loved me and coming from a good place. It’s a brainwashing technique of theirs. Talking over and over so we hear them.

The dream”.that’s what keeps us bonded to them. We think of the bad, but remember the good. This is why we have such a hard time letting go. You can find info on this online. We need to believe in the game. They are disordered. No good intentions ever existed. I know this much but I still find myself living in the dream”both my spaths did that. For now, I’m trying to concentrate on me, myself and I!

The “eternal optimist”. Ahhh”In the book “Women Who Love Psychopaths,” the author goes into detail about this. Many women who are empaths or work in fields of helping others have a higher tolerance to chaos. We are more easily accessed because of this. We look toward what things could be instead of accepting what they are.

I’ve had the same thoughts about other women and the outcome. It is sick, but not our fault. It’s what they want. I believe you will move on. You have awareness. You know your thoughts aren’t logical. If you believed he wouldn’t do this to others and if you just wanted him back and were ignorant to what he is, that’d be a different story. You are aware and you are strong!


Thistooshallpass – Not sure if it’s appropriate but some of your comments made me laugh out loud. Laughing at my silly self as you confirm my story too. I read somewhere that people with mental disorders often have strange sleep patterns. I think that was actually the trigger to me realizing that there could be more wrong with my guy than garden-variety damage and dysfunction. Maybe because I wondered so often what WAS he really doing up at those crazy hours. Like you, I’m pretty certain he was “socializing”.

I was with him one night and it was very late, around 2 a.m. He received a text from a woman. Someone he says he met via facebook. His explanation for how he knew her was vague of course…couldn’t quite remember. Yet here is this woman he barely knew texting at 2 a.m. He texted something then announced to me that he just told her, “it’s inappropriate to text at this hour”. He then showed me a photo of this woman who was rather homely. He said, “I don’t really want to talk to her, she’s rather…unfortunate…so I try to be nice”.

You know, I swear he probably has several photos of homely women, and an array of photos of various locations in his phone also, for the sole purpose of having visual proof to back up his lies. Once he cancelled a date on me and sent a pic of the bleachers at the Little League ball park. No people at all, just the bleachers. He was all apologetic telling me he was just leaving his son’s game, and it was really too late to meet now, blah, blah, blah. If it weren’t so twisted that he would actually think through how to stage such complicated lies, I might say he was clever.

Anyway, I try not to think about what and who he might have been indulging as a result of his socializing. Just after his divorce (I knew him for a couple of years prior to his divorce. Oh yes, mine is a long and crazy story.)his wife (who is a madwoman of course to hear his stories – no doubt made insane by her years of torment)she was telling all of the neighbors that he was bringing prostitutes to the house. She obviously wanted them to know what kind of scum he was introducing to the neighborhood. In his charming, sympathetic voice I’m sure he assured the neighbors that ex-wife was crazy. I wasn’t sure what to think since my trust with him has always been sketchy. I suspect it was probably true. He liked to tell me all kinds of stories about what awful things ex-wife or even what some of his friends said about him. I think it was his way of telling the truth. He didn’t expect me to believe these tales but yet he was telling me the truth to my face. I’m sure you know what I mean. If these guys aren’t lying outright, they’re lying by omission. My guy also would tell stories about other people which I suspected were really fabrications in order to tell me something to get my thoughts, or because he was actually using this as a means to tell me something about himself. I believe he saw this as the same as telling the truth.

And the talking…oh yes. I gauged whether he was likely hiding things from me by the degree that he was controlling the conversation. When he was really running at the mouth, not letting me say much of anything, that’s when I was pretty sure he was seriously up to no good. Something was driving him to want to make sure I didn’t ask any awkward questions, like, “so why didn’t you call me back last night”. And I could always tell when he was lying. As much as I wished I could tell him sometimes, I didn’t, because I needed that edge. Absolutely every time he lied he would rub his eyes. That’s actually why I thought he might have some empathy, that maybe he felt guilt. The action of rubbing his eyes was to not see me. He couldn’t look at me while he told his lie. I guess that’s what confuses me too. He FEELS something. I know he feels anger. I believe he feels shame. It looked like he felt guilt. But something in him can’t stop himself from his impulsive behaviors and compulsive lying. Something in him also prevents him from feeling kindness or compassion as well. I just don’t get how he can feel negative emotions but not feel positive emotions. Other than his delight when his little mind games put the hurt on someone he was mad at. The joy when his little schemes brought him positive results for his negative behaviors.

What a spin it puts my mind in when I try to imagine how that works in him. Anyway, thanks for your replies. You’ve been a real boost to me today. I am all over the map emotionally. Some days I am fierce and feeling my power, and other days it’s all I can do not to call and beg him to take me back. That was my personal pattern through the relationship that hasn’t shut down yet. I’d get mad and grow strong, end it, he’d beg me back or I’d miss him, creep back together, then repeat.

The phase I’m in right now reminds me of the feeling when you’re a kid on the merry-go-round at the park. You spin and spin and when you jump off you’re in a different place but your insides are still spinning around for a while. My brain has nausea from spinning so long, just like my stomach did from the merry-go-round.

Big hug to you Thistooshallpass, your words meant a lot to me today. Oh, and just one more sidebar. There was one comment that my guy’s ex-wife could make that would absolutely put him in orbit. It was whenever she made the statement, “I know you better than anyone!” Oh he hates that. Hates for anyone to think they know him completely. Loss of power in that I’m sure. I can only imagine the countless times he said the same thing to her…


I think there is an article on here somewhere about sociopaths being night owls. Love and Thistoo, I think our sociopaths were cast from the same mold. The internet was the perfect invention for them – live one life during the day and then another all night trolling on the internet for whatever sick indulgence motivates them at the time. Could the sociopaths you knew function regularly on about an hour of sleep? And then use caffeine, drugs, sexual arousal, whatever… to keep going the other 23 hours of the day?


Nomorewool – My guy is such a creature of the night that I think that’s why he never worked a “regular” job. He runs his own business and has a lot of flexibility to set his own schedule. If he attempted to work a steady job he couldn’t enjoy all of the adventures to be found in the wee hours. It would seriously cramp his lifestyle. He would feel “controlled”. I honestly don’t know if mine was using other stimulants to get him through the day. My situation with him was so bizarre, the best way I could describe it was “an intimate relationship with no commitment”. The “commitment” part was an illusion that he encouraged me to believe would happen when we were “both in the same place”. As I’ve mentioned, I dumped him and two months later he’s in the committed relationship I always dreamed of. Anyway, I was married to a functional alcoholic and I have done a lot of work on my codependency issues. I believe that part of the haze spath created around our relationship was too similar to the kind of hiding that my ex-husband engaged in. I have no doubt spath is addicted to something, and I suspect that it’s sexual, but I don’t know the true nature of what it might be. He never asked me to do anything out of the ordinary. In fact he put me on a pedestal. A terrible place to be, I might add, since there is nowhere to go but down when you’re perched on a pedestal. His expectations for me to be pure in mind, body and deed were evident even if he didn’t outright say so. You know how they have their subtle ways of getting the message across. Mild criticisms, questioning, a change in the tone of their voice.

I realized eventually that I was actually feeling like a prude lately. I was judging my own behavior in the light of whether spath would think I was “bad” for my thoughts or actions. It dawned on me that not only am I not a bad person, I was a heck of a lot more fun, and was having more fun in life before his judging wore me down. I want that “me” back so badly and it’s just so polluted at this point. I think I hate him for taking that away from me more than anything. He killed my sparkle. And what I hate almost as much is that there will never be any justice for that. He’s so messed up there will never be any retribution on him for what he took from me. Oh sure, talk all you want about karma or that “we reap what we sow”, but I don’t think that’s possible for him. He can feel a sense of loss, the scenery of his life changes when people leave him, but I doubt any of it really hurts him. Just makes him angry and then he changes up his game and goes on. There will never be any real justice.


NMW and Love,

I know I’ve read on occasion that it is common for sociopaths/psychopaths not to sleep much. Our stories are proof enough.

Spath #1 was a cocaine addict. I didn’t know this while we were together and am not sure how he pulled it off. When we weren’t spending nights together he would act tired and would say he was going to bed at my bedtime. I later found out from a mutual friend at the time that he was up all night, every night. We once watched a movie together, the main character drank all night/did drugs and the next morning would do cocaine to get him by. He told me the main character reminded him of him and he chuckled. He seemed proud of himself. I didn’t get it at the time and it bothered me. He didn’t do that! Turns out that was his life. He disgusts me.

Spath #2 didn’t do drugs and liked iced tea a lot, other than that nothing comes to mind. He also lied about everything, everything! So who knows”He would say he was up all night working (I’d witness him up on his computer all night). Claimed he worked 70+ hours a week, which was strange because he never seemed to work much, unless I was around when he was in his punishing moods and blatantly ignoring me for several hours at a time. He worked from home. He was constantly out day and night doing things, seeing “friends” and running errands. He claimed he went various places (coffee shops, bars) to work because he didn’t like working from home. I believe he used his work as an opportunity to go places and troll. Like you Love, he owned his own business and there’s no way he could ever hold down a typical job. Spath #2 worked from home as well. He didn’t seem to work much either.

I’m started to let go of the fact I’ll never know the extent of what they were really doing. The things I have discovered are enough. Still, it’s one of the things that bother me most. Them staying up all night when I wasn’t around, even when I was. It pains me deeply.


I read and reread this post.I feel you sister!
Thank you for sharing.
It really helps to understand.
I still to this day have those ahha moments when I was trying to figure out what the hell was (is) going on.
I’m telling you this site and my LF buddies here have saved my life.
Knowledge is the key to moving on.


Thistoo –
I just wanted to thank you for the translation of the word salad letter. That was spot on and could have been written by the sociopath I was involved with. Everyone who saw the sociopaths writing used to comment on the odd quality of it. I guess even when not trying to manipulate something sociopaths still have to toss a word salad.



I loved reading that translation! The emails right after we broke up were the worst. Loving, twisted and cutting down all at the same time. I’d have to read and reread. They made no sense! There is such an odd quality! All they know is manipulation. I wonder how naturally it comes to them at this point? Guess it’s all about their charm! So disturbing, not to mention gross.


The sociopath wouldn’t have made it through college English without me to edit the nonsensical bits. Sometimes my edits would choose the wrong side of the doublespeak. How dare I not magically know what nonsense the sociopath was trying to convey!

Maybe I should request a writing sample from dates in the future. Inability to write without tossing a salad seems to be a fairly prominent sociopathic trait.


I went back to my N/path 8 months ago. he has lived with me in my one bedroom apt… for free since… under the guise of we are getting married, etc.
two days ago…just an hour after he toldme how much he loves me and looks fwd to being with me forver… and had made me dinner night before….

I GOT A POCKET CALL….. IT WAS HIM BEING INTIMATE WITH ANOTHER WOMAN… AND TELLING HER that he’s never felt such a bond with another woman in his life.
same stuff he tells me.
kicked him out.
he is gone.
but I am sick this am and hardly able to move. adrenaline…. and I feel I am going to die.
can someone tell me that this will pass. Please. Please remind me that no matter that I lost my savings… and he’s charmed my parents… and I thought he was real… and best sex of my life…
please please tell me I am going to be okay. get thru this….

Please. I feel I am going to die and i can hardly function.
My best friend and partner is poof… gone.

thank you.


Hey there. I have not looked at the posts on here for a week and I just saw yours.
I am literally holding back tears for you right now.
You are NOT going to die. You may feel that way right now but you will be ok.
You know the truth now and what a horrible way to find out.
Please read the post on this thread from Jan7.
I will find it and post it for you so that you can talk to someone immediately.
Its for the National Domestic Abuse Hotline.
1800.799.SAFE or the
I suggest calling right away. There may a few minute wait but the counselors are awesome and you can get some resources right now.
You will be ok,I promise.
We are all here for you.


I do not know how to thank you enough.

i literally thru up this am… when i looked on my littl porch… and my “fiance” who has been there very morning smoking… peting my cat…. watching irds and tellingme how much he loves an appreciates me and all i do for him….

his ashes …. from his little cigars are still there.

I happen to know he is with another girl today. just like he did with me a year ago.
he has texted me. he misses me. he is sorry.

but I know he is with another woman.


i will call these number Stronginthecity.

am i going to be okay?

he’s gone. GONE.
i should be happy. his car was repoed. his checks from fire Dept. are garnished.
he hates and ignores his own mother.

he is in debt and owes the IRS for not paying taxes.

but I got him on meds. I thought hed be better. He did get better. Less paranoid and anxious.

but still living double life.

Dear Lord reach down and help me please.


I miss our love and constant companionship….we were together always.
I took him in when he broke his let with me ice skating. he got rid of his apt.
paid me nothing.

why do i miss the love of my life?

HE WAS A LIE. how is that possible?

I will never have sex like that again either. im 45. I know. and now he will use his amazing body and abilities to hook in another victim. Oh god…. please help me.

something wrong with me…. b/c if he came to my dor now. id let him in…. and yet I KNOW WHAT HE IS.
It is an addiction i guess.

he took me our to beach Pier last sun. said. “No person, place or thing will ever get between our love megan.”

two days later… i get a pocket call of him being intimate with another girl and telling her he does not love me.

when i would get nervous…. when my gut rang alarms.. I would tell him… try to have mature discussion. he started tellingme i was paranoid and needed meds.
I WAS RIGHT ABOUT EVERYONE OF MY “PARANOID’ gut feeliongs and thoughts.
oh my god… teling me I am crazy….

Help me god please.

thank you Stronginthecity.

why do I miss this creep?

well… not the creep? but my fire ire fiance? six feet 6. strong. loving me daily.

as i payed his way thru life… making 21,000 last year and he made 80.

help me God.

sorry to ramble.

need to call those number now… huh?

why do I miss Satan? someone explain please. i thought he was real.

thank you all. beyond words how thankful I am for you. I feel sick. I have to kick butt at my new job that I began three weeks ago also. How sill I do this?
if you knew what I did for a living you would understand.

I need miracles.



I am so glad to hear back from you.
You are doing the right thing and in the right place for support.
I hope you do reach out to the domestic violence hotline when you are ready. The web site also has a chat section if you want to chat on line and not talk on the phone right now.
You will be ok, it’s going to take some work on your part but it will happen.
Tomorrow you are going to rock this new job and immerse yourself there. Work is going to be your rock. When you are at work you just think about work and this will give you a break for your alone time which is going to be tough. Know that.
You have to stay strong and know this is for the best because not only did this person violate your emotions and your dignity as a human being, he also has been sleeping with who many how many woman and you need to schedule a gyne visit asap.
I know you just started a new job but for your health and safety you must get yourself tested.
Do not talk to him no matter what he says. I know this is hard but its the only way to get yourself in order. He will probably say and do anything right now, or he may just know hes busted and move on.
Do the #9999 text, put block and his phone number so that you can’t even see the texts.
You miss him because you are a normal person with emotions and empathy, this things this person lacks.
Your gut, your intuition was telling you something.
For me, it was ALWAYS right.
I know this is hard to hear right now but it’s the truth.
Don’t worry about him, he will be fine. You did all of those things because you are a caring person and unfortunately spaths can smell this for a mile away.
Educate yourself, keep reading here and I highly recommend a personal phone consultation with Donna when you are ready.
I’m here for you.
It will be ok. You will get through this. You know the truth.
Your friend,


oops…. I was wrong. he just left message. well 20 mins ago. he is at his dude friends place again… where he crashed the last time he abandoned me. at least that is what he says…. and it was a quiet background and he was very close to phone and talked for a long while. no echo like he was in a bathroom.
I am confused and scared. he asked to just meet for lunch tomorrow. I have no idea why. he said he appreciates all I did for him from Oct. when he broke his leg…. until now. Help me Lord.. Please.
I need to relisten to the pocket dial voice mail…. the one where he is speaking intimately and telling a woman.. that he is glad they stopped… they could have gone thru with it.. but that he wants to wait a little….. b/c he does not want it to be just “penetration”. that he’s never been so bonded and emotionally, spiritually connected to a woman in his life. lBut he was living with me. telling me he was saving for a ring. telling me we are forever… just two hours prior. so why the hell is he calling me?


He’s not emotionally invested in you. He’s a player. He’s calling to see if you will let him drain more out of you. The question is: Will you let him? Because he will continue “putting the touch on you” until YOU end his ability to do so. For someone who is unable to FEEL compassion for the pain that they cause others, there is NO downside to these calls. It’s just a predator being a predator. What is difficult for us is that WE are the ones who try to assign meaning to it… because to them there is no meaning, there’s just leeching whatever the source (source is us, we are the host body that a leech sucks off of) lets him drain from us.

Save yourself. Learning and healing and saving yourself needs to be your only focus for a long long time.



There are websites that do reverse lookups based on telephone book info, so the info can be outdated. Finding the owner of a cell phone number is more difficult. I don’t have experience with the sites that charge, but it’s my understanding that cell phone owner info is difficult to get. It’s not possible to find out who the caller is on a track phone.

Consider whether you really need this info. If you’re being threatened or your physical safety is threatened, consider reporting it to the police. If you are being emotionally harmed, consider blocking the number. If you’re trying to find some info concerning your ex spath, consider that nothing about them makes any sense, and you may feel better in the long run if you overcome your desire to find something out, and spend your mental energy on something good for your life.



I am so sorry you’re going through this. My heart goes out to you”.this is a very painful and devestating situation you’re going through. The beginning is the hardest. We all know your pain on here. You’ve come to the right place.

Your feelings of loving him/hating him/still feeling love for him regardless that he has hurt you and led a double life is completely normal! Look up Stockholm syndrome and traumatic bonds. It is natural to miss him and to focus on the things that made you feel good about him. That’s part of his charm that way and he set you up for this to happen. All part of the brainwashing techniques”.

I’m glad you’re considering calling the hotline (thank you, stronginthecity). Are there resources where you live? A women’s shelter/guidance for the abused? I’ve been seeing a counsler from my local women’s safehouse for nearly a year now. My counselor is very skilled and has saved my life. She knows the ins and outs of men like this. And it’s free. I’m not sure how big the town is that you live in, but there may be resources for you.

Hang in there. This is just the beginning but it will get better, even if right now it seems it won’t. This is a long journey and an insightful one at that. You will come to learn more about yourself and others than you ever could’ve imagined before. In the meantime, do things (next steps) on your own time and for you. Do what feels right to you in each moment. Try and focus on those moments.

Stay strong and No Contact. Try not to beat yourself up at first if you don’t stay NC. You’ll get there. As you’re already aware, you’re addicted to him through the bond he’s created.

We’re here for you! Xxxxxx


I do not know how to thank you all enough. I really dont. I feel like I am dying…. and strangers and throwing me a Lifevest Of Acceptance and LOVE. God bless you all.


Good Morning Everyone….

I am still a bit of a zombie, but better.

I am asking some tech advice please.

If I have a phone number…
How do I find out the owner of the phone?

Just calling and getting voice mail does not help if they do not identify themselves…

this would help me very much.

I found a site for reverse phone lookup… but it is one of the scams… where you have to join… and then they want to charge you on credit card each month. I NEED ONE PHONE NUMBER THAT IS IT.

Thank you…. any support would be greatly appreciated.

bless you all.


I don’t know if you were able to see the reply about looking up the phone #.
Privacystar app, pay extra 10 bucks and you can look up numbers even cell.
I don’t encouage this this I know you will anyway.
I went through the investigative phase too.
You will get tired of it eventually.


I was rereading your post.
I want you to also.
Read what you wrote about pay check garnished I r s
Debt etc etc.
This behavior needs more than a pill.
he will always disappoint you be unreliable and be a cheater.
You deserve so much better and this jerk isn’t it.


I am so grateful, I do not know what to say.

accept thank you… and

Lord, please help me.


Hi again….

I do not know why I cant delete or comment on my last posting.
looked up number. It is his phone. this is too weird.
maybe one of his kids… I do not know… and do not really care either.

just curious.

I will be going to an alanon meeting with a friend on Friday night.

have a great day….


I’m hoping that you call the hotline.
Please,reach out to someone you trust. I know the spaths are good at alienating you from friends and now your family thinks he is Mr wonderful so they probably be supportive.
You may have nobody to talk to right now.
Keep posting here if you are able.
if you are feeling as terrible as I think you are you might want to go to the emergency department and get some immediate help.
This is very intense stuff here and I completely understand.
What he did was terrible, unforgivable but at least you finally know the truth.
You will have to respond to this as an addiction. I know because I have and am still going through this myself.
Please let us know how you are doing.
Please try not to contact him and try to talk to him.
That will make things worse. He did what he did and he was finally caught.
Money can be replaced. You have to trust me when I say that he is who he is. He will not change. He is disordered and does not care about anyone but him.
Right now take care of you. Don’t try to do it cold turkey.
Your LF buddy,


I do not know how to thank you all enough. I really dont. I feel like I am dying…. and strangers and throwing me a Life Vest Of Acceptance and LOVE. God bless you all. unreal love and support here.


He wants to have lunch because he got caught and has a place to live with you.
Please let him go.
He will talk you into him moving back in and cheat on you again.
I know he’s a smoking hot fireman that makes 830know but he’s a bum.
He should have a nice house and you living with him.
Megan run away.
Now is your chance.
Trust me and the others he is no good. The sex will become boring after awhile. I promise you.
I felt my ex paths penis was the best but that’s all he has to give and that’s not good enough for this girl anymore.
Don’t meet him. I know you want to and probably will.
Just think of him f#@^ that other woman. You are just a place to live.
Mine actually gave me an engagement ring but it doesn’t mean shit.
They never change.
Never. ..
Go rock that job and let him live somewhere else.
He wasn’t paying anything anyway.


Kitty. .Megan
Please read my post below from 4.20.15 at 7:25 am
I know the posts get mixed up here sometimes and you miss stuff sometimes.
I actually forgot I even wrote it but I think worth a read.
Also look up cognitive dissonance.
I can’t even believe I have not come across this before.
I read your post about why should you call a domestic violence hotline. .
Forgive me for not explaining as I am very much going through this myself.
Helping you and connecting with you makes me feel the wonderful qualities of me.
Someone he does not deserve.
I will never stop being who I am.
News flash. .only to the deserving of my compassion and love.
Goodbye sociopath.
Go somewhere far away from me and my family.


It looks like the reply section is missing on some of your posts.
You can go to the “manage my account” section of your profile.
How are things going?


After a certain number of replies to replies to replies to replies, the reply option goes away. One can start a new thread by posting directly to the the initial blog post.


Denial is amazing. I am in it. The truth would be too overwhelmingly horrific to see. I have to live in my own little fantasy world for awhile… b/c the truth is too evil to even be true.
How do I get out of denial?

Denial is helping me right now to not be in a fetal position writhing in pain.

At least I am not in denial about being in denial, huh? 🙂


Kittylover, I am so sorry that you had to hear such a phone conversation. I can even imagine the shock and confusion you must have felt when you were listening to it.

but what I do know is how you feel about finding out he is cheating once again as my ex h cheated with a coworker for two years (the first that I had proof of). I thought something was going on and even confronted him but of course he manipulated me with his words to turn my head away from my gut. When I finally had proof of his cheating he begged me to stay..sobbing, crying, begging, “I’ll never cheat again”, “I learned my leason” “I love you not her” but he never changed he just got sneakier about how he cheated and where and more abusive mentally & emotionally towards me to control me from leaving him. That time, finding out he was cheating just emotionally was so much to handle by myself as he had isolated me from my friends/family for years.

I believed after I left him & I really had time to see the truth that he cheated on me 8 – 12 times during our marriage that I know of now (at the time I had my suspicions but no proof) and my counselor told me that it’s more like 3 to 4 times that amount as that is what sociopaths do they cheat over and over and over and over…I know the counselors numbers are more accurate amount since he traveled on business around the world giving him plenty of opportunity and when I finally I left him I found proof of him cheating with 3 women in two different states!!! The griping pain throughout the whole body is unbelievable when you find out the truth about the man who told you he loved you and only you is cheating again. Makes you want to curl up in a fetal position (which by the way I did plenty of times after leaving him). I am so sorry that you are in emotional pain. It hurts so deeply.

What those three women gave me was an escape out of my marriage. I did not see them as causing him to cheat, I did not see that I was the reason why he was cheating…I finally saw him for who he was a cheating SOB.

What I can tell you from being married to a sociopath who cheated from day one and caused me to break down after 12 years of getting back up brushing myself off and keep going during my marriage IS PLEASE DONT WASTE YOUR TIME WITH THIS EVIL SELFISH MAN…your biggest regret will not be the money lost, or giving him your heart the biggest regret will be that you wasted so much time with this evil manipulative man. He is a con artist plain and simple. He loves to destroy all the people around him and he does it with joy in his eyes.

Money you can earn again, your heart will heal but you can never get that time back it’s gone that is why it for me is the most regrettable.

I knew instinctively that when I left I needed to cut him out of my life cold turkey and not talk to him on the phone or in person or take emails as I knew by then he was manipulating me with his words and I needed only to see is actions. I then found a counselor who told me day one that I was married to a psychopath. I asked the counselor if he had brain washed me and she without hesitation told me YES!! I then searched on the net about brain washing which brought me to the book Freedom of mind by Steven Hassan. The book woke me up to the fact that my ex (& all sociopaths) are cult leaders and I (all victims including you) are cult followers it does not matter if they have 1 follower or thousands of followers they all do the same ticks to lovebomb you in to their sick twisted game and they switch to evil controlling mind games so that you do not leave. This gave me some understanding that I need to break the brain washing/mind control he had over my mind.

Every time I became sad, angry, mad, etc I came to sites like Lovefraud, psychopathfree .com, psyhcopaht awareness.wordpress. com, Lisascott. com the path forward surviving a narcissist and read, read, read everything over and over to reprogram my mind and to put truth in my mind about who I was really married to = a psychopath. Most of the time with tears streaming down my face. But Slowly my mind opened up and one day I never wanted to be with him again ever. This day will come to you Kitty lover.

But you must do the work to open your mind up from his brain washing. Reach out to your local abuse center also for free counseling and women group meetings they really do help to see that you are not alone and you will hear the same stories from other women in the group meeting that you have experienced. When you sit in a room with 40 other woman and 80% of them are telling you the same stories you have experienced it really opens your mind and your eyes. Keep reading, reading, reading everything that Lovefraud has at the top plus all the videos at the top then related it to your relationship.

My counselor gave me the book Woman who love psychopaths by Sandra Brown it helped me tremendously as it explained the brain washing aspect along with gas lighting abuse, that sociopaths use trance & hypnosis, the addiction aspect that they use etc etc.




He is NOT your best friend, a best friend would not cheat, lie, abuse.


We are here for you Kitty lover…you are not alone, when you feel alone come here and vent it really does help to get your emotions out of your mind you can always delete the post after you write it or you can do the same with a journal.

Wishing you all the best!!

Ask yourself this question everyday:

Do I want to waste anymore time on this evil guy?


I wish I had a million dollars to send you in thanks. god bless you! You are are literal angels. Literal. Thank you Donna for what you have created for victims of pure evil.


I saw that you are looking for a way to look up a phone number. I don’t encourage it but I know you will do it anyway so here is the info.
Download an app called Privacystar. It’s free but it you pay an extra 10.00 for the entire year you can put in a number to be blocked and it gives you an option to look up the number, even cell phones.
If its a throwaway from walmart or something you don’t have to register the it just says the area, but 95% of the cell phone numbers I am able to look up.
Your buddy,


Jan 7
That’s an awesome post.
I am so grateful for you and everyone else here.
Let’s do this together and not be afraid to spread the word about these evil people.


Everyone look up cognitive dissonance immediately! !
Explanation of the pulling back and forth


Well. That was a lot of drama. I waited a few days to mull it over. Coming back to this”

I was grossed out at where it went with the accusations and “guesses.” They were all completely false.

I’m a perfectly normal person, and my posts can be explained with perfectly normal explanations. For instance, that, as a person injured by some creepy people, I was hesitant to post my experiences” and that’s why it looked like I was “hiding” something, and maybe posting seemingly out of the blue.

The accusations have been like the type of crazymaking, mind-bending stuff that perps did to you all. There was very little effort at communication back and forth before jumping to conclusions. To the reaction, I’m concluding the old adage applies, that “when you find a hammer, everything is nail.” (In case that’s not obvious, when you learn about spaths, everything unpleasant is an spath or something like it.)

I’m used to being called warm, compassionate, and caring, so all of this (including the early upset reactions) are outside my norm.

I’m noticing my draw to the site is that I’ve never really talked about the experience in a place of people familiar with the crazy-making, twistings involved. I’ve talked with family and a few friends. I think it would make a big difference to me. (My whole family was impacted.)

I can’t imagine I’m the only person who’s come here with issues that impact their words.

I want to respond specifically to some of what I saw posted. After the first few responses, I didn’t read, so I may be missing things. (Because – I didn’t want hurtful or harmful thoughts, sloshing around in my head so I stopped reading.) There was a group gang up effect.

My situation that I experienced is similar to “false memory syndrome” with therapists. (There have been court cases on it.) It can be looked up.

I haven’t figured out what was upsetting about my original posts. I’m thinking pointing out the flags, might trigger the creepy gross feeling that goes with knowing you’ve been dupped, at least the feeling I’ve had. I meant it as a counter “simple” thought to use as a coping mechanism when the idea entered of “does he care about me,” since that’s a slippery slope question. I wouldn’t want to trigger that awful feeling in anyone. (It’s been a while since I was in acute recovery stage.)
In every instance, the perp’s craftily done something to block the target/victim from seeing or reacting to the flags. (The sick feeling gets better as you figure out what ”“they- did to manipulate it.) To me, that’s the most useful conversation targets can have, and share.., to reduce the power of perps, and also reduce that individual from getting targeted by another perp down the road. By the time you realize something’s wrong, there’s often too much setup, to get out easily emotionally.
(On timing of my comments being off (ex valid thought but wrong stage of recovery, misreading dates, not posting on my own stuff soon enough)” there’s something huge with timing in how the perps setup with me, and timing mis-matches have been an issue in my world. My therapist pointed it out as a theme, but we haven’t figured it out fully yet.)

I’ve seen a lot of labeling nearly anyone harmful as a spath on this site. There certainly are many people described here who are one. I wanted to discuss and get insights before jumping to a conclusions on my situation. The descriptions don’t seem to match to my perps exactly. I was concerned that there’d be a quick labeling, and no discussion.
”my concern was warranted. It happened. Though instead of at them, the quick labeling was done at me.

Everyone on this site is doing “armchair therapy” for each other. I have a degree in psychology and if I’d wanted to be a therapist, I would have been one. I did a 2nd degree at the same time and picked that for a career. If someone wanted to be armchair therapisting, the comments would have been oozing super-support of every last thing. I was focused on my own stuff, and that was impacting my comments. Same as everyone else.
Why this effected me — the part of me that wants to talk about my own experiences is scared. By repeatedly being told I’m here for another reason, that part that is having trouble coming out of it’s shell, is feeling “not heard and denied.”

Remembertoforget –
Irrelevant to the rest of this, but I had a thought (kind of armchair-wise). You were trying to figure out if it’s attachment disorder, or antisocial personality or borderline personally ”“ and there’s a theme in there. It sounds like you’re trying to describe an unnatural deattaching (maybe momentary). (According to my therapist, moments of unexpected or misplaced momentary disconnect are typical in perp-style. They trigger a fear, and make it harder for the target to think their way out of what’s happening or to see clearly.) So whatever the right diagnosis, maybe focusing on that (how it felt to you) will help figure out what’s bothering you about it?

On “salad talk” –
There was no effort to understand what I’d written. You all were angry, and so you got dismissive. (It was obvious.) In part early on to retaliate, or later to join the group effort.
“Salad talk” ”“ refers to the disjointed phrases, and single words strung together by schizophrenics and manic depressives during an episode. It doesn’t refer to something that’s poorly worded or is unfamiliar so it’s not easy to understand. So it has nothing to do with anything.

I personally think that labeling everyone who’s a perpetrator and abuser as an spath is confusing. There are a lot of creepy, crawly people who do horrible things, who don’t fit the definition, and should be avoided just because, no further thought needed. I also think focusing on how someone else is “unable to care” sometimes doesn’t add in focus on how it made the victim feel. And how it makes you feel — is the best way to re-learn (re-setup) one’s barriers while regaining trust towards “other” people. (It’s all tricky to do of course.)
Some of my comments that seem out of sorts with the themes often posted on here, come out of my thinking this way.

I’ll try to describe this again. I don’t know if it will make any sense: The question of whether someone cares is irrelevant to once they cross a threshold of “too much.” They can be charming and loving and helpful in life, and the question can keep going back and forth, and even the label “can’t care” keeps the question alive as a topic in one’s head. Get to how it made the victim feel in those moments of non-caring, and the victim can hang onto their protective anger for longer.

I’ve been hesitant to reply. I wouldn’t want to post anything that would hurt someone. Who knows this would get interpreted by anyone and if someone would make themselves feel bad over it. On the other hand, I have a right to post what this experience felt like to me. It’s been terrifying in some ways.

I may check in on replies. If there was anything positive, I missed it, so if repeated I might see it.

I still need a place to talk about my stuff, so over time I’ll see what I feel.

I have some other thoughts, but I guess that’s good enough.


That bit about not-caring is going to get misunderstood. Figuring out they don’t care is important, including don’t care in the moments when it “looks like” they are caring. It’s important for the victim to get at how that made them feel, for healing to start healing. That’s my thought.


Kitty lover, reach out to your national domestic violence hotline to talk with a free counselor 24/7…in the USA the number is 800-799-SAFE.

YOU ARE NOT ALONE, keep reaching out for help & keep coming here to vent!


Thank you again for your words of support.
I just finished a chat session with the domestic violence website. I wanted to find some in person support groups in my area. The person on the other end was amazing, like you.
I am so sorry to hear that 12 years of that for you.
How are you doing now? I hate to bring it up and feel free not to respond, but how did you catch him cheating?
I think sharing your story would be helpful to me and the others because even though he claims I am the only one, he never slept with anyone else, even when we were broken up blah blah ..I know he is lying but never actually caught him.
He only loves me and if he cant be with me then he is going to be alone..yeah right.
I am so sick to my stomach because I did sleep with him again and now worried that …well you know.
I feel he is wearing down by my questions when he tells his stupid stories about his day. The dumb lies that make no sense at all.
I did speak with his brother this morning and glad I did because even though they are very close, I know he cares about me and did confirm that the lying and temper tantrums happen with him too.


Stronginthecity, your welcome. BRAVO to you for reaching out for help with the domestic violence website. Sociopaths slowly isolate their victims from the outside world so you feel that you are alone but in reality that is not the case there is so much support you just have to reach out. And that support will help you out of the sociopaths mind control grips. So pat yourself on the back for reaching out for help today!!!

I am doing good…I never really think about him and if I do it’s that he is evil. Yes, sometimes reading others post on here bring up lots of emotions and there are days that I have to sort out those emotions but I see how he sucked me in, I see how he manipulated me from day one, I see him for who he really is (I saw who he was from day one) but I did not have the term for who he was nor did I really know that he could never change.

In those 12 years I left him for a few nights here and there but he would always talk me back. I would sit in “marriage counseling” (what a joke that was) and tell him and/or the counselor I was done that I wanted a divorce but he is soooooo masterful like all of them that he manipulated me right back into the honeymoon stage.

At the end what really opened my eyes to the truth was the fact I was a former shell of my happy go luck self and I was not setting my goals & accomplishing them like prior to meeting him…instead he had sucked the life out of me and I was only accomplishing his goals because he would give me the poor me “I need help bs”. I was exhausted all the time mentally, emotionally & physically. I would say to myself during my marriage I need to leave him & go on vacation alone to clear my mind. I knew that I needed to leave him but the brain fog, anxiety, lack of sleep prevented me from thinking clearly throw in his gas lighting abuse, brain washing and all the other sick games he played I could not walk out on my own. I was just a walking stepford wive zobie robot with him.

When I had proof that he was having an affair with his co worker (they travelled together for business and were on an overseas trip at the time) I called her and she stated “but we never talked about you”….I told her she better call her husband and tell him the truth because he too deserved to know that she/he were cheating. I gave her two days to call her husband she did not when I called her husband he was shocked. He had zero clue. I thought the phone call would last only a few mins but he kept me on the phone for 3 hours. We compared phone bills hers/my ex and every call in/out was them talking…they talked 100 times a day. I confronted her and she again denied the affair but it was obvious the proof was out. My ex h told me that he loved me, begged me to stay with him, said that she was the one that was after him, that he did not love her. She told him he was lying to me….well guess what he was lying to both of us…triangulating us like all sociopaths do to take the attention away from him. Turns out her husband cheated on her prior, she cheated on him with my ex h, my ex cheated with her and everyone else…I stood there alone on the “none cheating spouse side”

I was finally leaving the marriage at that time…I had had enough of his drama, chaos & cheating. He knew he could no longer manipulate me I was done so he manipulated friends to manipulate me back into his con game. All lies…he did not end his relationship with his mistress and by then he turned up the brain washing, gas lighting until I broke emotional. He knew exactly what he was doing…pure evil!!

So my advise to you Stronginthecity, is when you have any doubt about ending your relationship with him or that he will change come here and vent before you call him, and read, read read everything about sociopathic behavior & watch the videos at the top over and over to open your mind up from his brain washing. Especially now that you broke the no contact rule and he had gotten back into your mind again…you must reprogram your mind with the truth = that he is a evil sociopath.

It’s good that your brother sees who he is…that is really great and a comfort for you in the time of need to see the truth about him.


You will get to a point you will never want to see him again.

(google Taylor Swift never getting back together video) watch that too it will help to sink into your mind that you are better off without him in your life)

Wishing you the best!! 😉


Thank you for sharing your story. You sound like you are in a good place right now.
I watched the video! Amen!
On that note, I watched a really good movie this morning and I highly recommend “The Other Woman” with Cameron Diaz..I know the title is a not very good but it’s actually very empowering as a cheating husband is busted and exposed.
Another good one is “Diary of a Mad Black Woman”.
I feel stronger everyday as I educate myself on this subject and learn and trust my woman’s intuition.
I will never fall victim to another person like this.
Your LF friend,


I am in literal agony.

He emailed me. he is sorry. Ie appreciates all I did for him.
He asked me to lunch tomorrow?


And yet I just *67ed and called him… 11:27 at night….. we all know he is with another woman… he doesn’t even have a place to live…

and no answer….


Hmmmmmm… why did he not ask to meet tonight? Or call tonight? huh?



HE IS CLEARLY… THE man who a week ago today was still speaking marriage and forever….
he is cleary screwing someone somewhere…. soooooo


Oh my God.

do you know how it feels… to be in my one bedroom apartment… that I made his home as well.. at no cost to him… since oct. 4th.

where we cooked and cuddled and laughed every night? not to mention amazing regular sex?

where my aged parents came and my mom and I made dinner?

Where id give him massages. play piano for him.


remember…. I caught him by pocket dial on THursday.


and thank you for saying it is okay to miss him.
if you saw the amazing and sweet caring… huge, strong fireman he pretended to be….
you…. would fall for him too. I wish we could post photos of our guys up here… 😉


Kittylover – he used you, and he wants to use you again. Do not see him. Do not call him again. Send his emails directly to the junk folder. It is all about exploitation – especially if he doesn’t have a place to live. If he is with another woman, then you are the backup plan.

Be good to yourself – do not respond.


thank you Donna.


Exactly what Donna said. Why he is contacting you is to see if he can get you worked up, to see if he can still control you, and to see what he can exploit you for. The details vary, but the motive is always the same. He is lying, just as he has always lied.

Consider that if him contacting you is causing you to feel a lot of confusing and intense emotions and is triggering intense memories, you would be very vulnerable to his control, and any kind of interaction is going to be harmful to you.

Consider that in normal positive relationships of any kind, there’s no confusion and questioning his motives – when people mean what they say and say what they mean, and their motives include caring about others’ well being, and they are committed to values like honesty.

How long have you been no contact? Maybe make a list of the reasons you went no contact with him. Make a list of the things you miss and the things you don’t miss about him. Make a list of how your life is better and how it’s worse without him vs. with him.


I remember seeing the movie the Exorcist as a little girl…. many many years ago. The 80’s.
There was a few moments of the movie that continue to come to mine because they are exactly how I feel in a relationship with a sociopath to whom you are addicted….

It was the part where as the little girl… who was possessed by evil…. as her BODY that was possessed was asleeep…

Oh her arm in red….. appear the letters….





I am trapped and controlled by evil and I cannot get out.


It’s normal to feel the way you do – trapped and unable to get out. Your ex spath did a lot of things to get you to feel that way. It’s a lot of work, but you do have control over your thoughts and even your feelings. As much as you can, think of positive things in your life, or fiction that is cheerful. Think of an uplifting and inspiring movie something like The Sound of Music, and push the Exorcist out of your mind. You can’t change your past experiences with the spath, but you can put good people and good thoughts in your mind to balance the grief and processing you’re experiencing due to the ending of a relationship.

If you have a religious faith, prayer and reading the Bible, may help, even if you can only focus for short periods of time.

Take care.


Thank you.


I just want to say hello and thank you all again.

I am hanging in there.

I am truly addicted to a person. How sick is that?

I have a resident at the Nursing home. Cancer. COPD. AND YET SHE CONTINUES TO SMOKE!!!!

Get it?

She is dying and does not have the strength to say no to smoking!

I have been doing the same thing.


Thanks for checking in. It’s good to hear from you.

You will recover; and you will go on to have a good life. You are strong.


You are welcome.
We are all here for the same reason.
Your addiction to this person is not your fault.
It’scalled being normal and expecting normal.
He is a freak show.
So I’m thinking you are probably a CNA a compassionate caring person that takes care of the sick that can’t help themselves.
I commend you for that.
You are still young.
Concentrate on perhaps going to nursing school and triple that salary.
Just a thought.
You would be so busy and when your done you hold your head up and walk away
You hang in there and pray everyday.
You will be just fine!
Your friend



are you an angel?

change your username please.




That’s so sweet.
I’m not an angel but I do believe that we are all put here on Earth for a reason.
I know we are both up getting ready for work right now.
You have a wonderful day and please keep in touch here.
I completely understand what you are going through.
You will be ok. Read here and educate yourself about sociopaths its amazing they all seem to be the same person.
I hope you consider going back to school.
You can do it and have a well paying job forever. You can do it.
Make this your focus.
Talk to the RNs at this new job that you’re rocking and get as much info as you can.
The nursing home may even sponsor you to go back to school.
Then you buy yourown house!
Gotta run for now 45 minute commute for me!
Your friend


Why would I call a domestic Abuse Hotline…
when he is a Fireman and would never risk his job by physically hurting me?

Ugh. Scared. confused. blindsighted. desperate. addicted. nervous.



Domestic Abuse is emotional, psychological, sexual, financial, abuse as well as physical abuse. Counselors that you can talk to on a Hotline know that. They are trained to know what to do to help when someone feels the way you feel – your feelings describe what’s it like to be abused. The harm done to the victim’s mind is just as serious as physical harm. You’d go to the ER if you experienced physical trauma and had broken bones to be set. It would take time to heal. Emotional trauma needs emergency care for the acute stage, and ways to manage the healing time.
A hotline counselor can help with what you can do to manage and mitigate the intense feelings you’re experiencing.

Remember that the way you feel is a normal reaction to having been treated abnormally, having been abused, betrayed, lied to, discarded, abandoned. PTSD is a real biological condition caused by real events. Spaths try to make us feel like we’re wrong and crazy for feeling like we do – they don’t accept accountability for abusing.


Oh my gosh.

you just validated everything I am feeling and experiencing.
I cant believe it.
thank you
thank you.

can you believe I was in a treatment center a year and a half ago for three months…. for PTSD and anorexia? Three months! A famous top notch facility.
I come out…. and within 6 months meet Mr.Wonderful… charming, safe, warm, fireman. Oh, I am so confused.


Well said.
Thank you.
I’m exhausted.



Did you continue to see a therapist regularly after you finished at the center? It’s an ongoing lifelong process dealing with PTSD and anorexia. Having someone to touch base with weekly about what’s going on in your life could be very helpful in healing and in dealing with new problems.


Bonding to a person works well in a committed honest love based relationship. When spaths use normal people’s caring and ability to bond with another to exploit them; it is like an addiction to overcome. You are a good and normal person for your ability to bond to another. Your ex wronged you and betrayed you.


thank you. wow. wow. wow.



I’m relying to your post below, I can’t find it to reply to it.

It’s unlikely he was freaking because of your anxiety. He was freaking because he wanted to freak and then he blamed it on you. Spaths turn stuff around. The truth is his freaking and blaming you caused your severe anxiety.

It’s unlikely he started another relationship because you kicked him out. If he didn’t want you to kick him out, then he would have stopped doing the things that cause you to kick him out. Again, he is twisting cause and effect so he can blame you for whatever he chooses to do.

Sadly, it’s unlikely that he regrets anything. They don’t care. If they did care, they would do differently. He orchestrated events the way he wanted them to happen, and he blamed you. That contributes to how absolutely awful you feel right now. I can relate. We have all been through it. It’s beyond horrible, a real life nightmare.

As much as you can, try to balance your grief with focusing on other things for a bit. Glad you’re at work and I hope it’s distracting you a bit from the pain.

Consider blocking the numbers he or his kids are calling you from. He is messing with you, and since he’s exploited you twice, he is very likely to cycle back to you at some point. He doesn’t care about your feelings and that is a very painful betrayal, because he lied to you and made you believe you were in a love based relationship. Consider to committing to no contact whatsoever, not even looking at his stuff on social media, etc. No contact is to protect you from him. He is harmful to you. We care about you. You care about yourself. You want to protect yourself from harmful people, and save your wonderful giving personality for someone with good character who appreciates it.

Hi Strong.
I still feel like a stunned bird.
I am at work right now however.

I found out he did not sleep with her…
and went to his pals’ homes saying he messed up.

he was freaking b/c dt my severe anxiety last two months…
I almost kicked him out twice.
so…he figured…
he’d start up a relationship with someone… so that if I kicked him out… hed have a place to go.
Then it pocket dialed me.
I caught him.
He’s gone.
he regrets.

im moving on.
and sad.
and scared.
and angry.
and tired.


Leech, bum, loser, manipulator, sociopathic nightmare,liar,loser, broke ass , broken down limp dick, society drainage, drama filled empty shallow shell.
That’s a description of him
I hope nature takes its course.
That’s right I found my voice fucker


If mine had a limp dick…. I’d let go of him with no problem!

There I made a funny. A joke. Hopefully someone else smiled out there! 🙂


Viagra my dear. .


I would do ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING to know who the girl he had begun talking with….. meeting with… was not often….



I would love to hear her side of the story.

Id love to show her my messages and texts and photos and card.


Again, it’s natural to feel the way you do. But the reality is that it’s probably best for you to be no contact with anything and anyone that has anything to do with your ex. Even though you really want to know, if you do find out who she is you probably won’t feel any better; and any interaction you would have with her may not go the way you predict it.

Consider writing a letter to her, telling her what you want to say and show her, but don’t send it. Keep it somewhere for yourself, or burn it or destroy it in another way. This can help give you a little bit of closure in a way, and it’s much better for you than interacting with anyone to do with your ex spath. He’s not a good person, and you can protect yourself from him doing more harm to you by staying away from him in every way. He has only caused you harm in the past, and he will only cause harm in the future. The best way to win is to rise above him and his current victim, and go on to have a good life with good people who deserve your time and companionship.


I know how you feel but it will not help.
AnnettePK explained it .
You have to cut ties with him and everyone associated with him. Hearing her side will make you feel worse because more than likely he lied to her too.
Don’t think that he treated her better or didn’t use the same tactics on her…he is disordered and not healthy for you to be around.
It’s over. You caught him. He is a liar and a cheater and used you for a place to live while looking for other women to exploit.
Let it go…I am doing the same.


hahahahahahahaha love it! too bad there is no “like” button.


I just called hotline.

she could not help me. and just told me my option is to just get rid of him. I told her that is my problem. something iw wrong with me and I cant and I love him and he is saying he will go to counseling and he loves me and is sorry he messed up, etc.
she just said that my option is to get rid of him.

I thought he was my best friend. you guys don’t get it! He been here for me… alone is a new state…. freshly out of treatment center for anorexia and depression FROM PREVIOUS ABUSE. I make little money as a recreation and music therapist with dementia patients. I have no family here.

he is the most handsome man I have ever seen. it was the best sex I have ever had or will have. Trust me. He is 6’5″.
then again…
he is a liar. he has not paid me rent or wifi electricity since he moved to my place after breaking his leg with me Oct. 4.
His car was repossessed. and b/c I had not charged him rent… he got enough money… just 2,0000 to buy a car off a friend. I was stupid enough to BUY HIS TAGs. THIS IS JUST 3 WEEKS AGO! And… I gave him 350 bucks b/c he never once paid his storage unit and they would not even open it for him without that much money. I thought I would help him get on is feet again….AND HE SAID WE WERE PARTNERS FOR LIFE.. he wanted to marry me and be with me…. so it was give and take… if something bad had happened to me… he said hed be there for me. He met my humble, loving parents.

He abandoned me three times… just packing and leaving b/c he had IMAGINED I cheated on him by going thru my phone and seeing something he did not like. So then… I would erase things… normal things… but if a male name appeared.. a friend… a coworker… my gay ex-husband… he would flip out. so I changed some names out of fear of his suspicious mind. he figured that out… and now says I am a pathological liar not to be trusted.
Here he is meeting with a woman… I get a pocket cal as he is telling her.. as he is living with and off of me… how he is having fun… but needs to stop… b/c when they do finally have sex, which he hopes is soon…. HE DOES NOT WANT IT TO PURELY BE PENETRATION. That he respects that he is in a “VERBAL” agreement with me…. AND DOES NOT WANT TO CHEAPEN HAVING SEX WITH HER.
I caught him. He supposedly stopped seeing her… I even checked it out with his friends, etc.
He says he was scared I was going to kick him out… cuz I almost had two weeks prior. but we talked about it. we made up. we discussed. we enjoyed easter and every day saying how happy we were. he said and I quote..on a pier… at sunset to me just two weeks ago…. as he was already meeting with the woman…
“Megan…. you have nothing to fear (I told him I had a gut feeling that something was going on with him as he seemed distant..), nothing can come between our love, not a person, not a situation. Let go and trust Megan. I love you and I am not going anywhere and want to spend the rest of my life with you.”
two days later my LF fam…..

I need to stop now. I feel sick and sad and I am at work. Please write me.

I just want to die.

I have lost someone who I thought was my best friend and support. I love his children and at 45… I have none of my own and never will.

someone help me please.


It took me a long time and a lot of abuse to let go of the sociopath. Eventually I came to the realization that it was all just an act. The really amazing stuff about the sociopath’s past accomplishments were all stories the sociopath told me. Were they true? Maybe, maybe not. I have no way to verify. I suspect that the events probably happened, but that the sociopath’s role was more of a secondary character or on-set extra, and only in the retelling is the sociopath the star.

Looking at the sociopath’s actions since being in MY life, I must say that the sociopath is mostly talk with only enough effort to give credibility to the stories. For the day-to-day struggles of life, I had to depend on myself. For the moments of glory, the sociopath was center stage.

More importantly, the sociopath sucked me dry with the mesmerizing charm of a vampire. I gave that creature everything I had and everything I was. In return, my life, my friendships, my hobbies – anything other than the sociopath that gave me a moment’s happiness – was slowly ground to dust beneath the sociopath’s overwhelming ego.

After decades of abuse, I can tell you that freedom is sweet. My finances are in shambles, my friends long out of touch and most of my belongings still in the sociopath’s possession with no chance of getting them back, but it is worth it. I am old and dumpy and have to fight for every moment with my children due to the sociopath’s alienation, but I am slowly becoming myself again. You can do it too.

I am sorry the helpline was not helpful. I found a similar experience. Their only advice was to call the police, even when I explained that that was what the sociopath was expecting and if law enforcement showed up at the door there was a high chance someone would end up shot before they could break the door down and I wasn’t willing to risk my children’s lives that way.

I am sorry you are separated from family. Do you have friends to help you through this? Maybe a support group in your area could help you out. My only saving grace was that my family was near enough to run to when I escaped, but far enough away that the sociopath was reluctant to follow.


It seems to me, as I read your words, that you are asking us to give you what you want. Him.

But we don’t have that power. We can only tell you what you didn’t want to hear from the abuse center. That it comes down to a very basic choice. Stay with him. Or leave him.

The choice is easy. DOING IT is the nightmare.

You are chosing to battle in his game of semantics.

So it’s not cheating as long as he doesn’t put him penis inside her? That’s HIS definition of cheating. Is that yours?

As long as you submit to his manipulation that HE decides what words mean, then you should at least realize the outcome of such a decision. It means he has TOTAL control, that whatever he says is what matters and what you say or want doesn’t matter at all.

I know. I have been through this same game of semantics, this nightmare. I found that my now ex husband’s definition of abuse was the only one that mattered. So I had no right to complain because he decided EVERYTHING in our relationship.

I totally understand your nightmare. There he is dangling the carrot of the possibility of happiness… if only you would only submit to his definition of what matters in life, then you could have happiness. Only… it’s a lie. You are focused on the carrot and not seeing the stick. The stick is that you don’t matter to him. Your hurt doesn’t matter, your efforts don’t matter, what you have to give doesn’t matter, your feelings don’t matter, your money doesn’t matter, your home doesn’t matter. Good heavens, can’t you see why this is so painful to you? I do. But then, I’ve been caught in the same vice grip, until I realized… that I have to Matter to ME. Until I realized, I had to reject HIS conditions of our relationship, his condition that Only HE mattered.

I am so sorry because the answer is, you already know. He has shown you who he is. There is no virtue in him. That he didn’t put his penis inside her so it’s not really cheating? That’s the definition you will accept? And when he changes the definition, you will accept that too? That whatever HE decides is what matters?

That’s not a relationship I could live with. It was just that kind of relationship thinking that nearly killed me.

It really is that simple of a choice. But really, incredibly painful, ALMOST the most painful truth that I had to accept… that there was in reality NO relationship, never was one with his personality type, and never would be. My ex husband’s type of relationship was ONLY a demand that I accept and APPROVE of his ABUSE OF ME.

And since I could not ACCEPT and APPROVE of his ABUSE of ME, then there was ONLY one choice for me. To take my broken self away from him and find a path to healing, without him EVER EVER in my world. Which, in the end, has turned out to be my path to true happiness and LOVE and JOY and my life is now full of possibilities and good loving caring relationships.

Sorry SO SOOOooo Sorry kittylover. I totally understand. You want things to be different for you, this time. Unfortunately it just isn’t. It’s a pain I wish I could erase for you. But…I don’t have that power. That kind of power (and answer) does not exist.


Dear Not what he said of me:

Your post has really touched me and really reaches into the depths of my desperation, fear and sadness.

This relationship IS killing me.

and you know what? When I tell him of my hurt or ask questions? HE GETS ANGRY AND TELLS ME TO STOP dwelling on the past. When I tell him truths about what he has done to me… he twists it and blames me.


OH MY GOD….. I was CRYING about the pocket call I received of him with another woman… and I asked them what they did…. He laughed… and said… “You know… you have a problem. You just cant get over things!”

I have to leave office now.

I ask for prayers and truth and GOD AND THE STRENGTH TO KICK THIS EVIL, LYING, ABUSIVE,, MOOCHING, PREDATORY mother fucker out of my one bedroom apartment with my little kitty.


Love to all of you and thank you for listening.
I will get back on later this eve.

I wish I could just call the “Sociopath Removal Service”… just call some trucK and big guys to walk in.. get him.. get his things… not allow him to say twisted, abusive, evil things to me…. and take him away forever.


His responses to the issues you bring up to him and to your natural and normal needs are common abusers tactics to twist things around, shut you down and manipulate you.

It seems like a very difficult task to get him to move out. It is likely to be more pain for you, and a risk that he will manipulate you into letting him stay, and a risk that he will get very very very nasty.

Consider having someone with you, maybe a male friend or acquaintance you can trust. If there is a Domestic Violence shelter consider getting their advice and help. From what you have said, your ex may become dangerous to you physically. He is dangerous to you emotionally, and that is enough reason to get help in moving him out. You can call the police and have an officer present for the move out.

If your ex has a key, you could have the locks changed when he is out. Then tell him he needs to move his stuff out. Consider boxing up his stuff and setting it outside the apartment if it’s not a lot of stuff.

He is likely to try to take control of you and of the situation. It’s difficult enough for you when you are in pain from the loss.

Stay safe, emotionally as well as physically. It will be so hard for you, even if things go as well as possible.


Prayers for all to go well and for you to be strong and be protected. Deuteronomy 31:6.


Ah YES KittyLover,
You write of the same response I found. ANGER.

What kind of human, when looking into the face of his partner, a face of hurt and pain… and responds not with compassion but with ANGER. No care at all about your hurt. Who ridicules the person who feels such hurt and pain? MONSTERS do this ridicule, someone with NO HEART does this.

And if I am right and he still lives with you, I wish you the strength and resolve to kick him out because dear Kittylover, this is a DANGEROUS person and the sooner he is gone, the better. In fact, if he does live with you, then you need further counsel on how to get him out so that you remain safe… in which case, I STRONGLY advocate that you have a counseling session with Donna.


I did it not what he said. I kicked him out. I feel relieved. I can’t thank you enough for your post


I am rereading your post… as it is past midnight and I am freaking out. Im feeling anxious and scared…. I really think he might try to break into my place…. esp when he is served restraining order.
for almost a year… I have had a 6 ft. 5…. (You are all so tired of hearing that…) huge fireman hold me all night long… telling me how much he loves me. hed protect me. Help me Lord, Please.
do you know… when I did meet with him last week…. after he asked to meet me after I caught him cheating and he said it was a lapse in judgement… (three weeks long…. and so calculated?)… when I told him Id like him to listen to himself on the pocket dial voice mail message on my phone of him declaring love to another woman… after he had just done the same with me. sex also… and texted me 30 secs prior to pocket dial… I LOVE YOU… in caps. he was just placating me… cuz he was busy. with the words.. I LOVE YOU. That my friends is evil.
anyway… when I told him to listen to himself and told him how hurt I was… and I was crying… he replied…’;”Did you just meet me MEgan so you can abuse and harrass me? Should I just leave the car now and never see you again? Am I just your punching bag? ”
so twisted. I knew inside…. this is a psycopath. he is playing victim to his victim b/c he got caught victimizing.

I am so angry at myself…. for not listening to my gut… my fabulous intuition… believing his words and fantasy stories… I have literally been living a lie.

I just took an mg of Klonopin that my Dr. prescribed today… I made an emergency appt. and told him what happened. I hope it kicks in soon.
You guys…. I do not know the law… if this restraining order is approved in court… will it be on his record? When folks do background checks. companies.. before they hire you?

this rollercoaster ride of emotions and thoughts is uncanny. I thank you all for preparing me.

I just had the thought… maybe If I had had more singing gigs at nice places and with bands and was performing again… he would have stayed in love with me. But I started to bore him. He got restless.
there is nothing anyone can do to change a psycopath or make them love you.
it was nothing I did wrong. My mistake was trusting him. trusting a man who look at my cell phone the first week of dating.
but hey.. he then went to therapy and got on meds…. to get better cuz he loved me so much and wanted to stay with me!
Nonsense… he cheated and lied while on the risperdone.

I am falling asleep. How did this happen to me? please tell me that at some point in his life… he will face some type of consequences?


He didn’t love you and he never loved anyone and he never will. Real love isn’t what he does. If you decide to get out performing again, you can do it for yourself and for the good people who enjoy the music. He didn’t encourage nor support you to do good things, and he didn’t enhance your well being, and he didn’t appreciate all the good things you have to give to someone who deserves it.

He might have been lying about going to therapy and taking meds. It’s hard to know if what he says isn’t backed up from a trustworthy source.

Can you take a few days off and get away, maybe stay with family or friends somewhere? It helped me a lot to go out of state for awhile when I was going through the unraveling of my fake ‘marriage’ to my ex psychopath.

Consider getting new locks and some good security measures to keep yourself safe if he does try to break in.

Will you see him in court about the restraining order? Be prepared for some really intense feelings. And he will do whatever he can to rattle you. If you can have someone with you, a friend or colleague, it might help.

I hope you’re sleeping ok now, with no bad dreams.


Anyone awake?

I just woke up with a jumpstart of fear and adrenaline. My heart is racing.

How did I allow this to happen? How can this predator have exploited me to people I do not even know….telling them I am a liar, a batterer, a psyco…

when all I did was fall in love with the character he portrayed and got taken for free room, board, food, sex, car, child car, xbox, money and a used car b/c his got repossessed?
took him in as he gave up his apt. (How convenient) b/c he broke his leg with me ice skating and was sure to make me feel it was my fault// b/c I am a skater… and he took me skating with his daughters.



I hope you got back to sleep, but you can expect some sleepless nights during your recovery. I don’t think I slept well for a very long time.

The questions you ask, how and why, haunt every survivor of psychopathic victimization. There is never any closer in relationships with spaths, because it wasn’t a normal relationship, the victim was just deceived into believing there was a relationship.

Consider creating your own closure, in whatever way works for you. Maybe write a letter asking those questions and telling how you feel, but instead of sending it, burn it or release it in some other ceremonial way.

The only answers to the how and why questions are ones that we as normal people will never understand. Why does he do what he does? Because he likes exploiting and harming people. How did it happen? Because you’re a nice and normal person and he deceived you with lies.

I found my answers to why and how in my spiritual beliefs and my theology. You will find answers that work for you and you will eventually have peace. In the meantime, it’s a very painful process to work through, and not very peaceful.

Take care.



You’re doing a good job trying to sort out your thinking by going over the pros and cons; and it seems like you’re getting an understanding of how confusing it is. You’re right – he wants you to be confused. He is willing to lie about anything if it gets him what he wants, so you have no way of knowing if something he says is true or a lie. It’s random. You can be sure of what he does, and what he does proves that he does not care about you. He is just using you. You can be sure about how you feel and how much harm he is doing to you. How you feel because of him proves to you that he is not good for you.

The good things about him, like being a friend to you and supportive of you are not true. He tricked you into believing that, but what he does is not what a friend does.

At one time I felt like you are describing how you feel now. It is the worst, and it makes you want to give up and die. I know about feeling so sick and in so much pain. I think you’re a strong person to be able to work with all this going on. I pretty much stayed in bed for months.

You have lost a relationship that seemed good, and it is a loss that you will grieve. Losing your relationship with his children is really sad. It hurts and it is a loss.

When I finally committed to no contact with my ex psychopath abuser, it was absolutely unbearable pain at first. After awhile, I started thinking clearer. I started feeling better. I am a couple of years out, and I feel better now than I ever did with him.

You’re taking good care of yourself to come here for support. I can just about promise you that if you decide to stop having any contact with him, you will feel a lot better in a couple of months. You’ll feel worse at first, but then it will get better. You will have time and energy for good things in your life, and for resolving the problems you were dealing with when he began targeting you. It is common for psychopaths to target victims who are vulnerable because it is easier for them to manipulate us. You mentioned you had just moved to a new state and just gotten out of treatment, and you’d been abused previously.

I think it would help you to find a good counselor who understands psychopathic abuse and manipulation – someone who knows what tools you can use to help yourself feel better and reach the goals you want.

When you’re feeling as bad as you are now, if you can just focus on no contact with your ex and make it a priority to take good care of yourself to get through the hard part, you will feel better in a few weeks.

Take care. You’re doing good dealing with this loss.




I am crying….. but it will stop one day.

OKAY…. I WILL NEVER GET MY MONEY BACK….. BUT I read from one of your posts… to cut it as a loss.


i love you all. THANK YOU. THIS WILL NOT BE EASY. but anything is better than being used, abused, made a fool of and in CONSTANT TERROR.



how do I block his number again??? please tell me… something 9999?

HE LAUGHED AT ME. Like I was crazy,,,,,

that is so funny. He is literally insane…. and evil…. and that cannot be cured.
i feel relief. i cant look back. THAT’S WHAT kills me.
how do I block? please tell me? and his texts too?


Congratulations! You have taken your power back; you have accessed your own strength and power. You are an inspiration.

Keep on going forward!

We love you, too.


Please consider changing your locks. Even though you took his key he may have more copies stashed away. Depending on his particular type of crazy he could come back inside your place to harass you, to randomly move stuff around and make you feel crazy, to spy on you, or even to physically threaten you. If you have considered a restraining order, then you are worried enough to make extra precautions a sensible thing to do. Keep your windows locked and let your neighbors know that he is not supposed to be there anymore under any circumstances whatsoever. There are also relatively inexpensive battery-operated stick-on alarms you can put on windows and doors that do not require any handyman skills to install. If the door or window is opened it emits a loud noise that will alert the neighbors someone is breaking in.

I don’t want to make you paranoid – just vigilant.


I agree with NoMoreWool – I was thinking about your situation this morning, and that if he wants you to suffer he could try to harm your cat or you. Be very very careful and keep you and your precious kitty safe.

Take care. Keep up the good work you’re doing. It’s so hard, I know.


HE IS GONE ANNETTE. I DID IT!!!!! He is gone!!!!!!

I lost lots of money… and I am a mere music therapist on my own….

but cut my losses…
lost money to my addiction. just pretend I was a coke head and spent it on drugs.
i do not care how good looking he is. i do not care how big his dick is or how great the sex was… b/c I WOULD NEVER ENJOY THEM AGAIN ANYWAY…. b/c his mask came off.


You are thinking so clearly – it took me years to get there.

Be prepared to cycle through feeling weaker and feeling the emotional pain again; and times when No Contact will be very very very difficult to maintain. As time goes on, you’ll fill your life with good things.

I don’t know how to block a number, but if you go to the website for your phone company it probably will tell you. Or you could just call the carrier and ask.


So glad he didn’t make trouble for you, prayers answered. Psychopathic abusers will go away when they know that they can no longer exploit their victim, when their mask is off, as you said. My ex P did lose interest when I finally got to the point he could not manipulate me any more.

Kittylover – good for you! It’s the first step in taking back your power. Keep going – it will be an emotional roller coaster – stay firm in your decision. It is the path to healing.


Do I file a restraining order since he has come back so many times? it is amazing to me… that police do not care if you have been emotionally, mentally, financially and fundamentally abused….
they just want to know if he hit me or not!!!

I have no proof of my pain, his lies, a literal victimization that was done to me in the name of love! THAT IS A CRIME.


There are pros and cons to restraining orders. One aspect to consider is that an order prevents you from contacting him, too. Knowing that it could get you in legal trouble if you contact him could be helpful if you’re feeling weak and might contact him.

A DV shelter in your area or a DV hotline could help you make the decision about a restraining order. How it is carried out varies in different localities; and how effective it can be depends on your ex’s individual type of evil and insanity.


How do I post so all of you can see what I post?

I filed the RO today. Not fun.

I came home this eve… and there was a message on my voice mail. his numbers are all blocked.. so I was sure it was not him and since he is in law enforcement and knows not to leave evidence… well.. he left a message from some other phone.
In the most evil… THREATENING VOICE….. that tone he uses… when he is saying (You better obey me or I will hurt you. It is the Dr. Hyde!) he says… and this is a total false
“Stop calling people that I know Megan. Stop calling people at 3:00 in the morning and telling them wonderful things about me. Telling them everything. I know it is you. Do not make things awkward. Stop it Megan.”

I NEVER EVER CALLED ANYONE at the morning!!!!! what is he talking about? Maybe some other woman he is playing called someone…. they can check my phone records.My Dr. Prescribed me a med to knock me out during this crisis and I even woke up late for work this morning.

He is at the Fire Dept. on Thursdays for 24 hours so hed never come over here tonite…..AND HE will not risk his job by breaking laws or calling the polices’ attention b/c it would affect his job.

it is a horrifying message.


Im very sad right now. and most of all? I am angry at myself. So angry at MYSELF.
I saw my psychiatrist today… he said not to feel stupid. That I was targeted. He knew what to say and do to “work on me”. whatever. why did I not listen to the red flag? cuz i had just moved here than month? after coming out of a treatment center for 3 months that saved my life from anorexia nervosa and ptsd? Bc I do not know a soul here, have no family, no kids, live alone with my kitty and drive a shitty Honda Civic?
I am so angry at myself. so angry. I knew deep down. but he overcompensated for my fears. I feel he has something going on with an ex? he has dinner made and candles and music and a love letter when I get home from a long day with alzhiemer’s patients?

This is my fault.



This is NOT your fault! You are taking the right steps and brave ones at that. You KNOW the truth. You kicked him out. And filed for a RO. All in a couple of days!!! I’m surprised you’re even standing. No wonder you’re being hard on yourself. You must be exhausted….

As for your previous comment. I know that threatening voice all too well. It’s horrible. You know you didn’t call anyone, which leaves me to belive he’s projecting and/or most likely LYING to get a response. They will do ANYTHING for a response.

Stay NC!!!! You’ve got this!!!!!


He is setting you up. He probably made that call from someone’s else’s phone and he said what he said not for you but for someone else in the room with him listening to him leaving the message.

If you feel horrified, listen to your intuition. He is thinking about you; and it seems like he is planning something.

If there is anyway you can get away for a few days, visit relatives or friends in another state. Or have a friend come stay with you.

Have you done the threat assessment questionnaire? It may help you determine his dangerousness.

You’re right he won’t risk his job. It sounds like he is planning to do something where he will not get caught, by making it look as though you are crazy and unstable. This is a common MO with psychopaths.

I don’t mean to make you alarmed nor paranoid, but your intuition is telling you he left a horrifying message, he has the potential to do horrifying things.

If he has violated the restraining order, report this message to the police, if you think you can be safe from him.


Everything is always clear in hindsight. You didn’t know what you didn’t know at the time. The psychopath did everything in his power to deceive you, pushing all your buttons to get you to do what he wanted you to do. They are successful deceiving and manipulating intelligent, accomplished, street wise victims.

It sounds like your counselor understands about manipulators/abusers/psychopaths.



Consider if your ex used hypnotic techniques on you. Psychopaths hypnotize their victims. They stare into the victim’s eyes, they use a hypnotic tone of voice, they do things to get the victim into a relaxed state, and they use several suggestive techniques to tell you what to do.

My ex psychopath had me in a trance like state for several years. I ignored all kinds of red flags. Maybe your ex did the same to you?



My Therapist told me to call/contact the following:

They are a Domestic Abuse place and hotline…
i just called the 24 hour hotline to help me calm down…. I told the woman my facebook idea…. SHE TOLD ME TO DO IT. A Counselor. She said… you would be doing nothing wrong but trying to warm other women and people! Now I am very very confused! support and advice PLEASE.
a sad little kitty.



I am surprised a domestic abuse counselor encouraged you to post something negative about your ex. Maybe she was not aware of some of the details of your situation you’ve shared here on LF. Given what I understand about your ex, it would probably make him happy if you posted about him. I don’t think it would be good for you right now.

You mentioned Jackie Kennedy in a post. She was always gracious in adversity and kept her poise and her class. She had a way of rising above the negative things around her. I think you don’t want to let the psychopath bring you down to his level of behavior.


Donna and my LF friends,
Please help to distract me and encourage me to stay away.
Texts are blocked and he is leaving tomorrow morning with hid son to go back to Florida for a family Reunion or some bullshit…this is so important because his lease is up on his crappy basement apartment that he can’t afford. The plan was to get back with me and move in when he comes back…then the 2 of us move to Florida together….
NOOOOO, I don’t want any of this, he would be the same lazy, liar but in another state and I’m not renting my home that I have been paying a mortgage on for over 10 years to some strangers.
Plus I don’t even like him, hes crazy and I dont trust him.
I just want him to go and stay down there and if I ignore him without a fight or scene he will probably do that because he has nowhere to go here.
Help me, tell me just hideout 1 more day and avoid him until he is GONE tomorrow morning.



Realistically, it will take your commitment to NC and you doing everything you can to get free of him, for the rest of your life. When some time, for me if took a year, of NC is past, you won’t want him anymore and it will be easier. But they always come back, to see what they can exploit their victims for.

A spath’s long term plans are never to leave their victim alone nor to have a good life together. The spath’s long term plans are to keep doing what he is doing now forever.

Consider doing things and thinking about things to get you through today that are about you and make your life better, and have nothing to do with your ex. Interact with good people, build good relationships with family and friends. Do something good for yourself – get some exercise, clean your house, call a friend, buy something you need, read something for you, watch an uplifting movie, whatever works for you. If you need to focus on your ex, come here to LF, or read something about recovering. Write in your journal about your feelings, not about what the ex spath is doing.

After today, be prepared for him to pop up in your life when you don’t expect it. He will try to hook you in again, as long as he perceives there’s a chance he will be successful. My ex P finally stopped when he sensed that his BS would not work any more.


Also, be prepared for all kinds of mixed feelings about him when he’s gone, it’s a let down and a void when the drama is gone that it takes time to fill with good things in your life. Be prepared for moments of weakness when you wonder if you did the right thing and you feel like interacting with him again. It can help to plan what you’re going to do when you feel overwhelmed. NC is the only way to have a good life, but it is so very hard.


He already knows that he is not in my good graces.
He is only going for a week or so then coming back to either move in with me or pack his uh well basically his clothes because the furniture in his apartment is all garbage anyway….ans move back to Florida where he can live on his disability payments.


Thank you, I am really going to try . I need a haircut and a pedicure .
As long as I keep his texts blocked and don’t talk to him or see him before tomorrow I will be ok…
If I hear one more drama filled story from him about blah blah son, ex wife, brother I am going to lose it.
I am going to go and get some breakfast!
Thank you,


I just reread your post..
the part about what their long term plans are.
To keep doing what they are doing.
Annette PK, you are so right and I need to focus on how I am feeling and not what he is doing.
Thank you,



Did you know today is National Honesty Day? What a joke in my world of lies…..

He is a predator… he hangs on this one island in fla where he is also a fire man.

I shut down my facebook after I caught him with another woman…. and living with and off me 100 percent…

Number one… he has lied to people on his “Ave”…. about me… the exgirl friends and fuck buddies and other womens’ whose hearts he has broken that I ABUSED HIM EMOTIONALLY AND PHYSICALLY
and now he is homeless b/c of me!!!!!!! OH MY GOD.
Now… would it be wrong of me….
to open my facebook account… put his photo there… say it is national honesty Day and that I have something to share with anyone who knows this man… you know… the one who has lived with me under the guise of love and engagement….but in reality he is a lying, predatory, conartist. WHY CANT I DO THIS? Let the truth be known. I have proof of all
my accusations. I could make other women THINK. let the truth be seen. and then tomorrow close it down again.

advice please.



You need to do what feels right to you, however, you are asking for advice on this, which makes me believe you know it’s not right. My personal feeling on this? DO NOT POST ANYTHING! Heck, get off of FB!! It sucks, I did though and it saved me.

If you post he knows you care, you’re thinking about him and you will be baiting him! He may even think it’s fun!! Besides, he can use your post as further proof that you are “crazy”. He is a manipulator. It wouldn’t be hard for him to show others you’re crazed if there is PROOF. Even though we know it’s not true.

To my ex and even ex best friends, I am crazy and I am abusive. It’s so hurtful…more than I can even begin to describe. It’s still fresh. I’m still struggling with NC but no online activity!

Posting will only hurt you!!! Protect yourself. Please.



Please think about the comment Annette just posted. She makes excellent points and was often right on point when I was being stalked by my first spath. She may not always be completely right, but not far off, she knows her stuff! Please hear her out and consider.

There is a possibility you could be in harms way. If you post, you may be putting yourself in harms way and you are dishonoring the RO you just filed. Don’t revisit FB. Take care of yourself. xxxx


your posts are very helpful. thank you.

I guess I feel that Id be posting the ABSOLUTE TRUTH and maybe all the people he hangs out and drinks with and lies to and seduces… and walks around and sweet Mr. Paramedic Fireman.. maybe I WILL HELP SOMEONE get out of the trip or avoid it all together????

I am not struggling with NC. The man I love is dead. he never even existed… all I have to do is listen to my wonderful pocket dial voice mail of him with another woman…. while he is texting me he loves me. telling her he wants to get rid of me!!!!! My God…. i was his room and board. the night before he made me dinner and proclaimed forever……. CONARTIST

why oh why cant i warn others?

we warn them os sexual predators…. that is what he is?

we post other types of criminals…..
heck… I would have much rather had some burglar come in and steal all I own.
they can be posted and on tv and advertised and caught…
why cant I do this?
maybe you are right and I will look crazy… but I can say that in my post… “I know you all think Im a batterer and crazy… but isnt that what most predators say of their victims? here is a photo of him… 6 feet 5… 250 lbs.. and here is me…. the girl people call Olive Oyl…. you really think I battered him? when? between the checks I wrote him?
would you like to see the texts and emails… I can post them right here for you.
Like his new white car? great. I bought it for him… b/c his orange camero was repossed.
i can tell them he lived off me. lied. all of it. why would they not believe me?
I am a little out of it now from stress. I am all worked up. I am sorry.
I am feeling impulsive and just want to do this, but I do not want to make a mistake either. could there be legal issues? I am not lying about him at all. IT IS ALL TRUTH.
I can post… if you do not believe me… meet with me…. see the texts he was sending me while screwing you…
help please Love Fraud Gang. sorry to be high maintenance tonight.



You are NOT being high maintenance. You are hurting. That’s what this site is for. Post away!

You are breaking NC if you post about him. And again, as we know, he’s manipulative. If he finds out you posted about him, game on!! You want to warn others but it will only end up hurting you. Think about it…the people he drinks with, lies to and seduces? Who’s side are they going to take? They are his minions, which is why he hangs out with them. I’ve been down this path. Trust me, they will not believe you, no matter what you do or say.

Protect yourself! You have already done so many things to do so! Keep looking forward. It will hurt as all hell for a long while, but doing things for you is way more important than trying to save others and prove a point. YOU are the most important thing in your life. Focus on YOU right now.



You’re considerate to want to warn others. There are some websites and there is also the Rape by Fraud legal concept in some states. Consider waiting a few weeks before doing something along those lines. You will be more effective and less likely to make a rash decision that might backfire to you, if you wait until things settle.

You might consider getting a new phone number and just giving it to a few trusted people so he won’t get the new number. You or a trusted friend can check the old number to see if he left any messages, threats or otherwise, that need to be reported to the police. Don’t erase anything he leaves, and of course you won’t respond in any way.

One thing that help me to feel better is to make a gratitude list of the good things in your life. It’s hard at first, but once you get going it will help you feel better. Even if the only things you can think of to be grateful for are things like clothes and food and shelter, etc. it still will make you feel better.

Take care.


Keep in mind that once you have done this you can’t take it back if it backfires, and it probably will. If you don’t post, you always still can do it.

In my experience, any kind of interaction about my ex psychopath always backfired or worse, he twisted around to incriminate me. The only way I could ‘win’ is to not engage and not even think about him. It’s painful and frustrating, and the injustice is crazy making, but the best thing for you is to not engage in anyway, especially now.


Your comments soooo helpful and I need to reread and reread slowly.
I WOULD NOT BE GOING AGAINST an RO… b/c there is not one yet. I filed. I go pick up papers tomorrow to even see if the judge will grant me a hearing!
I would not be contacting him!!! he is not on FB with me anymore.. tho he had me plastered all over his for eight months. Wow… the shows people with perform for free rent and everything else.


I am reading and rereading this post from you Annette. Even tho a counselor on a Dom Abuse Hotline said go for it!

oh my gosh.


Kittylover, PLEASE slow down. You stated that today you filed a restraining order against your ex bf.

You SHOULD NOT go online now and post negative things about him because when you go before the judge your ex might bring up the fact that you are the one doing bad things to him. This could ultimately back fire against you. Let it go!!!

So PLEASE do not do anything out of spite or revenge!!

The greatest revenge you can get is to get your life back in order after he destroyed it. That is what the sociopath does not want…this is why it’s the best revenge = to find happiness again


Please, please just delete your Facebook for now.
Posting things about him will just continue the communication.
It’s best to just delete it and stay away.
I know you want to get back at him, make him feel your pain but his fucked up brain does not work that way.
He is probably going to talk shit about you but it will die down after awhile and people will start looking at him like he is the crazy person he is.
Right now, focus on you and keeping yourself safe and not losing this job over this monster.


So right!
This is happening right now.
He is coming to my city and found a way to contact me.
I can handle it now because I don’t care.
It’s a non-issue.


I did it strong. read above.I KICKED HIM OUT.


stong.. how do i block him please?


I’m sorry I have not been here this week as I am in the process of reconnecting with my daughter who feels like I tossed her aside while her grandma died and I was not there for her.
Ok, text blocking info..
1. Go to create a new text.
2. in the place where you would enter a phone number or contact name type in 9999 the message body of the text type block xxxxxxxxxx.
X’s being his number or any number you choose to block then click send.
you should get a text back that the # has been blocked.
You will never see the text they send.
Also download the app called privacystar. It’s free. Block his calls here.
You will be ok. I promise.
We are here for you.


March 7, 2015 at 4:42 pm
Christmas day was a basket of mixed emotions.I received a beautiful engagement ring and he was still in the gas lighting phase, again.
Of coarse he could not come to my family’s house as my daughter in particular would not allow him in her house nor did she know that we were “back together”. He happily laid on the couch for the day watching TV, one of his favorite past times.
The day after Christmas, while he was taking his afternoon nap(lazy), I decided to log into FB, which I rarely do I was surprised to see a message from his ex-wife”wishing me Happy Holidays” oh boy, here comes the drama. I do not communicate with her but she chose Christmas to send me a message. I responded that I did not wish to communicate with her and told her that I did receive a ring from him for Christmas, and knew it was wrong but hit the send button anyway.
When he woke from his much needed nap I told him about it and he said that he didn’t care if I posted pictures of us and the ring on FB.
An hour later I receive a call from his son”she had forwarded the message to him and I received a verbally harassing voice mail..”stay away from my family, tell my dad not to call me”. Keep in mind that I have never met his 20 something year old sons. A series of phone calls later to his son, ex wife etc started. I told him I was sorry for sending that message. I truly was because I knew it was wrong.
I was starting to behave like him and I hated myself for it.
Days went on and “the ring” that I proudly wore was never talked about. It was strange.
Why did he buy me this ring and put it on my finger? Finally I asked him. He said “because I wanted to show you that I love you”.
I accepted that. I wanted to be in that love phase that I am so addicted to. He was being perfect again. In the back of my mind I knew it would be short lived before the lies and nonsense would start again.
My birthday was coming up soon and I somehow could feel that something bad was about to happen but rolled with it.
I told him that I just wanted to go to dinner for my birthday because I knew the ring was expensive.
We had a perfect weekend, went to a great restaurant and had a fabulous time enjoying being a couple out and about as most of our weekends were spent having sex”and ignoring our friends and family.
It was too good to be true, could he have REALLY changed? He was divorced, was working and he gave me that beautiful ring. He told me while he was away visiting his children he had a lot of time to think and that he missed me so much, that he could not imagine his life without me in it. Everything I wanted to hear, again.
I believed it.
Backtrack to his birthday”it was midsummer and I had a small party for him. We had a great evening and next day went I treated him to a pedicure. While I was waiting for him to finish we talked about his upcoming final divorce and he asked me to look it up on my phone, he couldn’t remember the time. My phone battery was dead and I asked to use his phone which he claimed never used to go on the internet. He claimed that he despises the internet and wanted nothing to do with email, FB.
I opened up the browser and there it was”porn”not just porn but child porn, multiple site were open and I immediately was sick to my stomach. I took a deep breath and went to the site to look up the court time. We were in a public place. I remained silent while we drove back to my place. I confronted him. I told him I was disgusted and at first he tried to blame it on his friend, his friend was the one that was looking at it on his phone. Then he started crying like he usually does and admitted that he was a sick #$%^ and needed some help. He claimed the sites he visited were girls that were 18 and over but dressed up to look like younger girls. One excuse after another. We sat there for several hours and I went back and forth listening to his excuses. He tried to tell me there is nothing wrong with it and back and forth. He went to the bathroom and I took his phone and left. I went through his phone and really found nothing..(he had already deleted everything while I ran to the store) but when I returned he sat there with the “Im busted” look on his face. I gave him back his phone and he took it and smashed it. He left my house on his birthday crying, sobbing blaming me. We did not talk for awhile and again this was swept under the rug just as all of the other things had. I knew that he would somehow use this later to get back at me.
My birthday 2015, six months after this phone craziness, back with him again”after the ring, after promises of moving in together after months of lies that I couldn’t was about to blow up in my face. The day of my birthday I was off work. I told him 3 times over the weekend that I needed the entire day to take care of bills, paperwork, etc. He said he understood. Instead of going to work in the morning he decided to call in sick and spend the day with me”even though I told him I would be busy the entire day. He tried to crawl back in bed with me and I sent him off on errands so that I could take care of my paperwork”he did finally leave but proceeded to call me 7 to 8 times while he was gone for about 3 hours.
I got nothing done and I saw the delight on his face when he returned and I was clearly upset. He started making comments about his phone, he needed to get his glasses so that he could better see the porn on his phone. Mind you,that happened over 6 months ago and never talked about again, until MY birthday. I was still trying to finish up some work and he decided he was going to make me a birthday cake, banging around the kitchen making noise distracting me and taking pure evil delight in it.
Needless to say a fight, packed his things and left me again. I was to blame. He couldn’t understand why I could not get my things done and was irresponsible, I did not love him, he was never going to be good enough on and on.
Its been almost 2 months”.I have been discarded with evil vengeance.


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stronginthecity says:
March 14, 2015 at 5:07 pm
The text messages started again this week, changing my phone # does not help”
He was testing me after I have NOT reached out to him at all.
It has become REALLY predictable at this point.
He messages me about one of his many medical problems. I dont respond.
He tugs on my heart strings about going to the emergency room, he says, “oh, I thought you cared”.
It starts that way to get me to respond and then he starts with the,”you don’t miss me at all” texts.
It will then go to sex. He will remind me how great he is in bed and how he can make me feel better.
When I don’t respond he gives up.(I have given in before with the sex, It’s like breaking an addiction). I just want to fell normal again for a day or two.
I had a memory pop into my head this morning.
We were out to lunch, months after I found the porn on his phone.
He kept glancing at another table while we were eating. He had NEVER done that before. He always had all eyes on me anytime we went anywhere.
I ignored the urge to turn around to see who he was looking at. I waited until we finished eating to put on my coat..I was thinking it must be a really beautiful girl or someone he knew, right???
WRONG, it was a VERY young girl. Maybe 11 years old. He was giving her that look. The one that he used t give me. The little girl was smiling right back at him”.makes me sick to my stomach just to think about it.
Please mothers of young children, watch who you let into your lives.
There are sick predators out there just waiting to move in and help single overwhelmed mommy.
Luckily I do not have small children around because this is so messed up.
My mind is wondering why do almost all of his close friend have small kids and he is 50????


You know why I am scared this morning?

Bc I have filed a RO… which trust me… I need to do.

but it is not out yet. I do not even know if judge will grant till this eve.

he only works two days a week at fire dept.
we are not sure where he is staying now. I have an idea..

my fear is that this man is going to incriminate me!
I know how this sociopathic predator works.

If I am granted an RO… and there is a court date..
Should I get a lawyer?

will he make ME look like a criminal… b/c an ex of his and I spoke….. compared notes… she is free of him and survived.

How How How do I prove that all I am saying is real?

would my psychiatirst come? a friend who has tried for 8 months to get me away from this “hostage taking” as he calls it. Even contacting my best friend in Chicago thru facebook and telling her I was in danger,

My exboss who fired him and banned him off property?

what if no one is in my corner?

I feel alone… and he is a fireman. charming. smart. calculating. cold and callous. then again… I was told by a fireman’s wife… that the Dept. knows what he is about and some officers refuse to work with him.

I need someone in my corner. thank you.

Kittylover – is there a domestic violence organization where you are? They may be able to offer guidance on what to expect with the restraining order hearing.

You should certainly bring people with you – for moral support, if nothing else.


thank you Donna. yes there is. Women In Distress in South Florida. i called the hotline last night.

I will call today. I wish I did not have to go to work… so I could just walk in.

this has affected my job. I have to prove to my boss that i am going to kick ass again and leave this behind me. He knows how talented I am and he knows what happened. he has been nothing but supportive… but yesterday… I fell behind in documentation…. and one of my assistants did now o her job… and of course… who gets in trouble? Me.

thank you so much.
that man gets off work in an hour.
I am so scared he will come over here to intimidate me or break in. he is a firefighter he kicks in doors on a reg basis…. and he could easily come up my little front porch and come thru window.
I am terrorized. will have a friend stay with me tonite I am thinking…..


Good thinking to have a friend stay with you, or you stay somewhere else. Is there a way for you to leave your cat somewhere else besides your place? It would be beyond tragic if he hurt your cat to get back at you, but sadly spaths do that.

Consider calling the police and letting them know your concerns.

Listen to your intuition. You wrote you are terrorized. If you feel that way, there is a reason, and you are possibly in danger. Nothing is worth harm to you, not your job, your possessions, nothing. Do whatever you need to do to stay safe. Even though these are important things, don’t let your responsibilities to your job or your things, override your safety. If you feel terrorized, there is probably a risk to you. Women’s intuition is usually accurate. There is a book that explains it called The Gift of Fear by Gavin deBecker.

Have you changed your locks? Can you nail the window shut or put some kind of bars or other security on it?


contact your local domestic violence program. Depending on how the program is operated, you may be assigned a case worker who will go to court with you, help you file paperwork, and basically walk you through the system. Not every program has the resources to provide individual assistance through the initial crisis, but it never hurts to ask.


I think you have assessed the problem facing you and your needs accurately. It sounds like you are prepared for the aggressive and harmful things psychopaths do. Court is open to the public and you can bring someone with you. An attorney would be helpful, too. It’s important to find one that understands manipulative behaviors.
The local women’s shelter may be able to recommend one, and Donna of LF may have a list of professionals who can help including attorneys.

It sounds like your friend who understands you were being exploited may be a good support for you, and less likely to succumb to the psychopath’s manipulative charm.

In my experience some people will never believe the victim and will always be taken in by the spath’s charms. I have come to accept that in my situation; and I don’t blame them much because I was deceived. Before my spath experience, I would not have really believed a spath victim’s side. I did not know this kind of thing existed.


Annette… I am going to Domestic Help Center tomorrow… Women In Distress.
i never thought about asking them about a lawyer b/c i would like one. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My court date is 5/11.
I am so afraid HE IS GOING TO PLAY VICTIM and try to make ME look crazy.


I hope the DV center will be helpful. I don’t think the counselor who advised you to go ahead and post negative things on FB about him gave very good advice, even though she meant well. I think you will do a good job of evaluating things people suggest and tell you, and decide if you agree what’s the best thing to do. It’s difficult when you’ve been brainwashed by a spath until we don’t know which way is up, and we’re hurting, too.

You’re right that he is likely to play victim or do whatever he thinks will work for him. No matter what the outcome, if you do your best and stay ethical and don’t lower yourself to his level, you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you did your best and you did the right thing.

Prayers all goes well, and you get a good attorney to help you.


I cannot tell you how much you are helping me.

I am at my job right now. I am supposed to be catching up on paper work.
I feel sick. adrenaline rushing and butterflies in stomach…
You mean… It is Sunday… and I do not have my almost husband to return home to and to see his kids maybe cook for them and be a little family.

Ironically, I received an email from his exwife today. No… it is a good thing. she was married to him for 22 years. 3 kids. been divorced three years. She said that she heard we “broke up”.. but not to worry…. they do not believe a thing he is saying. She said after 22 years of marriage… when she figured out he was cheating… she was done and never looked back b/c he is such a huge liar! HE TOLD ME HE NEVER CHEATED ON HIS WIFE! he swore by it!
She told me to be glad I am free. That she knows what he is….she said to move on and be happy. That she is happy now without him.
She also told me he hit his last girlfriend.. burned her with cigarettes and locked her in apt. not letting her out. Why did this girl not report this as I am now so that it does not happen to another woman? ESPECIALLY IN THE MAME OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. Why don’t women protect each other?
She wished me luck.


My heart and stomach and yearning…. “Where is our safe… loving… warm… attentive… fun… snuggly…. sexy partner?” He just said days ago… marriage. forever.
HE TOOK ME ON A PIER to Saturdays ago last night — no joke. I asked him if all was okay with us. he seemed distant. He was not initiating sex. I had told him I wanted intimacy and for the first time… he did nothing about it. If we did get intimate… he would get up… of course saying I love you.. but go out on my little porch and smoke. for like 15 mins. No.. he wasn’t texting anyone. I checked.
So two SAt ago I was getting sad…I could feel something was different and not right (HAVE MY INSTICTS EVERY BEEN WRONG in this situation?)
and as we were sitting on a bench at the beach.. he meanly looked at me and demeaningly spouted, “What is wrong with you?”
I thought deep down and even told him… “There is nothing WRONG with me.”
But he wanted me to think there was…. OMG so evil that I am nauseous right now…
He took be to the gorgeous pier at sunset. He said.. I want to walk you on the pier and tell you something.
The clouds were pink…. the night was gorgeous.
He brought me out there… and looked me in the eye…
“Megan… No person, place or situation will ever come between us. I love you and I want to spend the rest of my life with you.”
He hugged me… I felt so relieved.

two days later…
pocket call of him fooling around with another woman and telling her that he does not want sex to just be penetration. That once Megan is out of the picture… and that will be soon… their deep connection and bond will be celebrated. “I have never felt so emotionally bonded and connected to a woman in my life.”


How oh how could a person do this?


My landlord had come to him two weeks prior and I got sited for having him stay with me longer three months without putting him on the lease. She told him he has to be put on lease and have a background check run.
He never did. And he started this “affair”, this bond of a lifetime (How did that happen, he was always with me… or texting.. or messaging or calling?) as AN ESCAPE PLAN!!!!

I now want to have a background check run on him and see what he did not want me to see… but how could that be if he is a fireman?

can someone please please tell me how and where I go to have a background check run on him and a financial background check?
we run them at work for hiring… but I should not ask at work, should I?

advice please. Maybe it will help me on my court date May 11th with restraining order.

Ted Bundy was nicer. At least he put his victims out of their misery.

that was not nice or funny. sorry… but sometimes I am in so much disbelieve and horror that I feel that way.

Love you all.

about to reread some posts.

please let me know about background check…..

thank you


Is there a chance that email may have been from him pretending to be his ex wife? If it really is her, it’s nice to have her support. But I recommend you don’t respond to it just in case. At least now right now.

As far as a background check goes, you know enough to know he’s a liar and dangerous to you. I’m not an attorney but I’m not sure the details you’d find out in a background check would be allowed in court. I think you just tell them what you know first hand. I may be wrong, but consider waiting until you get an attorney and see what he/she says about a background check. You could also ask the DV people tomorrow.

At this point, I think you’ve got enough to do, and the more about his evil that you assimilate in your brain the more harm that happens to you. You know enough about him for now. Finding out more through a background check might be useful info for your recovery in a few weeks or months, but consider putting it off. If you can help it, don’t even google his name right now. Your intuition is probably right about him. If nothing comes up in his background check, he could have still done a lot of things that he never got caught; and he has the potential for doing evil things he may not have done yet.

Just do what you need to do to stay safe from him now, regardless of the details that you could learn about him.

I hope you can find a good attorney. I think that could be a big help.


Annette no… it was her… it was actually a facebook private message. they are not friended on fb or anything. I am positive it was her. thank you for being concerned.

This is the first time that he has left — the fourth or fifth time —
but this is the final abandonment.
does anyone know what I mean?

he is done. I saw him sitting outside… al happy and back to his life of a player. he is not sending emails… or calling from other phones or coming over as he used to.
That is great… yes… I figured him out and kicked him out …
but there is still a sense of rejection and abandonment.
and I am mourning a bond that he had me believe was there… but never existed so I am grieving a ghost. this is so twisted. Stephen King? Are you getting all this?
I can even feel the connection broken. Like a 6th sense or a psychic/spiritual feel. He is gone. Truly gone. He is not coming back… not only b/c he will not be able to by law or b/c I am not interested… but b/c he ….
finally does NOT WANT ME ANYMORE.

The butts of his cigarettes and ashes are still on my porch.
I am working at my nursing home today. Just had this sweet Catholic priest here saying mass for the residents. I asked him if he would or if he knew of a priest willing to bless my apartment.

where do I buy sage and how do I burn it?

thanks everyone.



Everything you’re describing about how you feel and what you’re experiencing is a normal reaction of a normal person to very abnormal treatment, abuse, betrayal, exploitation. PTSD is a normal response to abnormal horrific experience. You describe what it’s like very well. I relate, and I’m sure other survivors do too.

Since he has been trying to contact you, definitely be careful with any communications to be sure it’s really who they say it is. A knock on the door, letter, package, social media message, email, phone call, etc. Maybe his ex wife would have liked to warn you, but she discerned that it wouldn’t have helped and/or he would have tried to harm her if you told him she made contact.

Spaths discard people routinely and cyclically. I think it was Hanalei Moon who calls them “mini discards.” For a couple of years pretty much all my ex psychopath did was leave and come back. I started keeping track and for at least six months he didn’t go for one week without leaving. Mine is a long story with plenty of twists and turns. I considered writing a book and contacted a writer who has helped write books for others. She declined, saying she feared the dangerousness of spaths.

I felt a spiritual element, too. I believe in a real spirit world, and in the existence of good and evil.

He never did want you as a person. He wanted to exploit and use you. Now he knows that it isn’t possible, so he is gone. He has been unmasked to you.

You have a lot to mourn and grieve. It’s a bit loss. Sadly reality is beyond even what Stephen King thinks up.


How are you doing?
Were you able to get to the DV center and get some support?
Are you still getting the RO?
I hope so.
My e xpath is stalking again and was thinking about you today.
Please let us know how you are doing.
The national center for domestic violence is excellent if you just need someone to talk to.


Pretty sure you can’t do a background check on someone without their consent.
What your feeling is called cognitive dissonance.
Google it.
You could hire a private investigate but do you want to waste your hard earned money there?
No you don’t.
You will be ok.
Keep posting here and maintain no contact.
Stay away.
These people can be dangerous.
I’m pretty sure mine is stalking again and believe me as much as you feel hurt this man is not worth it.
The pocket dialed call. ..almost makes me think he did it on purpose because that’s how they operate.
They shower you with affection then pull the rug out like it never happened
Do you want this in your life?
No. You don’t.
What’s going on with the RO?


I will never develop a relationship via text messages and phone calls again!
Ending This last relationship is difficult. I’m sick to my stomach. He lovebombed me to the point of brainwashing me that he loves me so much.
I’m counting my blessings that I didn’t sleep with him and that I found out now ( because he slipped up ) and I didn’t relocate to be closer to him.
But it’s still so difficult to think that I even fell for his words and I really thought he was being sincere.
When I found him on dating sites I can’t tell you how hurt and angry and betrayed I felt. Omg
I’m still in Shock and pain from the whole ordeal.
He texted me ” I miss you ” and I never should have responded. I did. 12 hours later I texted him ” well you are stupid. ” I thought he would respond. Maybe admit it again and apologize again. I got no answer.
So in left here trying to figure it all out. Mourning the death of the fantasy he sucked me into.
I go from anger to sadness.


Okay, Okay…. I will not reopen my facebook. I will not post the truth for others to see… b/c I will just look like a crazy vengeful bitch. It is kind of Jerry Springer and I prefer to be more the Audrey Heburn, Jackie Kennedy type.
I just with this one minion could see that he gave me as a gift…. a beautiful leather purse that she gave to him last year to give his DAUGHTER.
Can you imagine??????? They have all been told I am a batterer and dont trust him for no reason and he just cant take my paranoia anymore. OH MY GOD. The evil of it!


You got it. The last thing I need is to give him more ammunition.

Who cared what his minions think of him anyway… they all live… literally on the same street at the same bars anyway. Alcohol… drugs….. women. he told me I ended all of that for him b/c he finally found someone to be happy with.
On another note… I am nervous… my boss… exec dir. spoke with me today. he notices I am distracted. he knows what happened last week, but since then I have fallen behind in documentation! I am so embarrassed and I cannot lose my job over this abuser.


Good thinking. If you spend your energy on you and your recovery and your job, you have won. If you spend it on the psychopath, then evil wins. That is what they want – our attention focused on them. My ex didn’t care it if was my admiration or my hatred, as long as it was all about him and he was pushing my buttons.



So happy to hear you’re not going to post on FB! You are worth so much more!

The initial stages after discovering what your ex really is ,is hard. It’s not surprising it’s taking a toll on you at work. Just keep on keeping on and try to focus your energy on what’s good in your life. I know it’s harder said then done, especially now! Be kind to yourself, do the best you can do right now and all will work out in your favor, including things at your job, even if it doesn’t feel that way at first. I struggled too and it got better. Now I’m thriving at work and struggling more at home when I have time to think.

You will continue to struggle, yet if you believe in yourself, good will come in all areas of your life!


thank you…


Kittylover, I am glad that will not post anything about him. Very smart of you!!

It’s very easy to want revenge or to warn others but it’s best in your case to let go and focus on your healing.

The restraining order works two ways 1) it allows you to go no contact preventing you from contacting your ex so that you can start the healing process 2) it prevents him from contact you so you can start your healing process…it’s a win win for you.

Go to work and just do your job dont bring your personal life into work…no employer wants to deal with work problems/issues and on top of that someones personal issues. So as hard as it is to focus only on work it’s best to because you dont want to let the evil sociopath get you fired from your job.


thanks Strong.

I had called tmobile and they blocked his numbers and texts for me.

busy day.

i need you all right now and I thank you.

restraining order date hearing may 11th. of course he wil try and make me ok crazy. unreal.



Way to go girl!
I am so happy to hear that you are being proactive and getting along. Kudos on calling your cell carrier and the r.o.!
Just stay away from him and the mutual friends.
I had to lose a lot of mutual friends in the process but that’s how it goes.
Trust me the people he hangs out with and drinks with are his puppets…
You mentioned that some of the firefighters dont want to work with him…wonder why.
Being a FF requires trust on the team or it could mean your life. THOSE people see him for what he is, a loser.
The other people “his drinking buddies” are the people he can manipulate and control.
Let them be and nature will just take over.Get it?
If he comes to your job or house call 911! Call every time!
He will get the picture because domestic violence(I’m glad you recognized that’s what this is)is taken seriously and the police don’t care if he is a FF or Joe Blow.
Just keep your phone charged and by your side.
If a friend can stay with you of you can stay somewhere for a couple days..great but if not call 911 if he bothers got this!
You are strong.
Remember when you first posted, when you said you felt you were going to die, guess what?
You did not and you will get through this.
Your friend,


You’ve got some time between now and the 11th to get an attorney, to arrange for a friend’s support in court, and to organize any information you will present. Writing down all you can remember, and keeping a record of his harassment and unwanted contacts going forward will help your situation, including unknown hangup calls, etc, that could be from him.


I am checking out the rape by fraud website and wanted to thank you for bringing this up because that’s exactly how I feel.
Raped by fraud…
I am still angry but I took a couple of days off work and I intend on doing some things for me, and my daughter.
I ate a nice healthy breakfast and now I am going to sit on my beautiful deck and get son lovely vitamin D from the sun and chill.
Thank you and the others for helping us get through this experience and to move on and most of all educate ourselves to NEVER fall victim to these horrible evil people again.
Life is beautiful and I intend to get better and live it!
Have a wonderful day.
Thanks again.
Your LF buddy,


that is how I feel too. and I was raped.
he used sex and love to manipulate and his control his victim.

can you give me that site address please?

thank you…



Here you go..

Remember that he never plans to have that dream life he promised.
He simply wants to keep doing what he is doing. Period.
End of story.
Sorry, I know how much that hurts. It’s true and you will get there.



It is actually The other site provides information on false accusations of rape.


Thanks AnnettePK.. is the one I was looking at.


Anyone still awake?
this rollercoaster of emotions that you all warned me about is sickening?

can you believe just days ago…. this was his “home”…. and we’d be on the couch cuddling right now and loving each other and going to Starbucks tomorrow and talking about our futures and honeymoon… and getting a dog and where we will live and how I love his kids and cant wait to have a little room for them…

I really cannot believe this.
The denial of last week has obviously worn off.. which is why I am now WANTING NO CONTACT….

but the pain of losing who I thought he was… my little teddy bear as I called him and…

THE ANGER AT MYSELF. SO DUMB. STUPID. I FELT THINGS IN MY GUT. I heard words in my head. I knew it was not right for him to ask to take photos of myself at work or where ever I was to PROVE I was there?
Excuse me? I DO NOT LIE.

I knew it was not right the first week of dating when he looked in my phone….

or the 2nd week when he went thru all my emails and private fb messages…..

or when he asked if I wore paintyliners b/c I was going to fuck someone at work!!!!!! Dear God.. for one… that is not me and number two…

Or how about…. and I know this is tmi…. but I need help here and I HAVE NEVER SHARED THIS WITH ANYONE….

I had been on antibiotics for a urinary tract infection.

I know this is gross… but well… ladies… I had some white discharge…

he freaked out and asked me if it was semen from ANOTHER MAN.

He lived with me. I was with him every sec. I am ot promiscuous. I do not cheat or lie to my partners.

I was defending my innocence every day with this man.

I went to my OBGYN that day and got tested for yeast…. and actually Brought him with me…. and had her check for semen…. TO PROVE MY INNOCENCE!!! Ladies!!!!!

I am really smart. Educated. I act and model… so I am attractive. Dancer. Singer. Writer. Piano player.
A pretty special and smart woman.

why oh why did I allow this man to intimidate me and cling to him when he would threaten (and four times carried through… but for only 4-5 days at a time…) abandonment?

that is why. He knows about my bad adoption story. He knows I have abandonment issues that are severe as anyone with my history would.

He knows I am brand new to the state of florida. no fam. no kids. not friends.

he was so loving and kind and attentive to me. wanted to be in contact with me every second. couldnt wait to see me…. ‘MISSED me terribly.”

the intimacy and sex was something off the charts.

I am soooooo angry at myself.

so angry.

I hope I have not offended anyone.

HOW DID THIS HAPPEN TO ME? and why and how is it going to happen to other vulnerable women… and now he will go for the ones with money…. cuz he is homeless.

thank God for my kitty. she is right next to me right now. Even she fell for him. Was always all over him… way more than myself and I have had her four years.
He said it was his phermones.

sorry I am rambling. Kind of in a panic with some withdrawal going on as well.


thank you all.


Good Morning Kitty,

I understand what you are going through. It’s a horror and it’s more than overwhelming. I spent a lot of sleepless nights and heart wracked days in that state. I am so sorry that you are going through this. That is why what spaths do is called evil, because it makes people feel like you are feeling. That is what evil is. Betrayal is the worst pain ever.

It sounds like you are reprocessing your memories of what happened, some of them going back to just a week ago; and you are understanding the truth behind your ex’s motivations of what he said and did. You believed him because you are honest, and your trust is a good thing in a relationship with a good man.

You’re doing a good thing by posting details that bother you. You’re recognizing that your ex spath had you controlled and he was bullying you. You’re coming out of the trance he had you in. He was wrong and a total evil nut job, a sick unit, in the way he was treating you. He probably trusted you. The purpose of his sick controlling behavior was to get total control over you. It’s a sick and twisted mind. What he was doing was not love.

Consider keeping a journal to write down your thoughts and your memories and your feelings. They are really intense when you’re recovering. I found that writing things down helped me sort through them and release them. I don’t have to keep everything in my head once it’s recorded on paper.

I was severely hypnotized and controlled by my ex spath. I’m a professional with an education and part of a Master’s degree completed. I own my own home and have good friends, family, interests, talents, etc. My ex psychopath was successful in targeting me and taking several years of my life, a good deal of my health, and a degree of my sanity and happiness. I was in the wrong place at the the wrong time, and so were you.

You don’t need to blame yourself for not noticing red flags at the time. It’s natural to overlook small things in a relationship because no one is perfect, and that is also a good trait to have in a relationship with a good man. You didn’t know what you didn’t know. Now that you know you are doing a good job acting on it and taking care of yourself.

Women are not taught that there are bad people, particularly bad men. It’s in vogue these days to accept everyone as they are, and to adhere to the idea that no one is really bad – that there are always reasons why someone does bad things like an abusive childhood. Right and wrong are barely recognized and taught. So when we encounter an evil person who consciously in full knowledge chooses to harm others to suit his purpose, we are not prepared for it. A couple of generations ago, women were taught there are good and bad people so they were prepared to look out for harmful people and protect themselves. In smaller communities where people reside for maybe their entire lives, it’s harder for the disordered to hide. People move to new areas and they don’t know others’ history and character, which takes time to assess. The internet is another factor that makes it easy for spaths to hide their true selves.


Yes, we were raped by fraud. J M Short is working to make it a criminal offense in all states. It will be a good day when it is universally understood that lying to get sex is wrong and leads to criminal conviction.

Sounds like you are creating a good day for yourself; and enjoying the good things in your life.

Thanks for the inspiration.


I am all for that AnnettePK,
This is a crime. I believe that when I was with my expath in 2006 I contracted a STD from him. I can’t believe I am even talking about this now…so devastating and embarrassing.
Having a good day today! No desire to contact him at all.
I am so grateful to Donna for being the brave one to put this out there. I really don’t think that if she did not share her story I would be aware of this crazy personality disorder existed.
Has anyone read or heard of cluster B personality disorders?
Are they the same as a sociopath?
I listened to something a while back about getting through the holidays and they author..can’t remember who it was kept referring to cluster b.
Your LF friend,


It may have been Sandra Brown of

She has an MA and she refers to cluster B’s. I believe that sociopath is one of the cluster B’s, but the diagnosis includes others. It’s from a medical diagnostic guideline.

Susan Elliott of has a degree in the field also, and she refers to cluster B’s so it may have been her.


AnnettePK, Kitty, Donna and all of my other LF friends and supporters,
I want to say thank you for being there for all of us and together we can work with Joyce M Short and her website which I am in the process of reading make this the CRIME that it is.
Donna, I just finished reading your article about William Allen Jordan(not for the faint of heart) excellent info and great work contacting NJ law to try to enforce the sex offender registry.
Thank you AnnettePK for the above info and yes it was Sandra L Brown talking about cluster b…I find that this happening to me an experience that I want to truly learn and explore and even though I went through hell and back there are at least 2 things I am grateful for( you too Kitty).
1. I did not have any children with this man
2. I never married him.
I want to further my education and possibly turn this into a Masters degree as I am intrigued by this and would definitely further my career.
Have a wonderful evening and Kitty, please be safe.
He may try to come by or contact you with another phone number and promise you the sun, moon and the stars but don’t fall for it.
Don’t forget that he has been with who knows how many other woman and the chances of contracting an STD or HIV is extremely high.
I work in the medical field and believe me HIV is alive and just not talked about that much anymore because of the medications are keeping the infected alive. Sorry to be so in your face but you know I’m right and you need to hear this.I know how manipulating these sickos are,
HE IS A CON MAN. Karma is most definitely a bitch and what goes around comes around and he will have to pay one way or another.
Most likely he will lose his job as a FF and oh well, shit happens.



You could change the world for a lot of people. There is a need for educated people who ‘get it’ about spaths in positions to help others and to stop the spaths from harming.


Excellent links!
Thank you.
I really liked the part that talks about being alone and being ok with you so that you don’t fall victim ever again.
I have to confess that he was not my first abusive relationship (big surprise .not)and NOW is the time to figure out why.


Lets all support Joyce M. Short in making this a crime in all states!
Also, I am still reading about this William Allen Jordan character.


Strong… thank you so much for that post….. you are amazing.

thought you all would find this interesting.


I woke up to feel my kitties and saw your message.
I understand how you feel. I am sad and lonely too because just last week we were going to rent my house and move to Florida and plant a garden swim in the ocean and grow old together.
That was about the forth time he did that but 4 different places.
He was also jealous and rocked my world in the bedroom. ..
They do that to take the focus off their bad behavior. They will promise the world and it sounds so wonderful right?
While you are spun in circles they exploit your vulnerability because you are a beautiful person and he is a sick bastard.
My ex is down in Florida on vacation that he invited me on then played shady the entire week before he left…after we made plans to look at some property down there then never brought it up again.
Get it. They confuse you so they can be sociopaths and look for the next victim.
I understand. I really do.
I was going to fly down there yesterday. .surprise.
But then I came on here and worked it out in my head.
Dumb idea.
You will be ok my little grasshopper. ..
I know you miss the perfect life he promised you but it never existed.
I’m still trying to figure out the engagement ring I got for Christmas. ..yes it’s real!
Hang in there.
Don’t try to figure it out..
You won’t he’s a fraud and liar.
You will be ok.
Your buddy,


Oh brother…the first line should be FEED my kitties, typo sorry, just woke up!
Actually LOL!


Well it gave me a laugh when I read it. I knew what you meant!


And the kingsolver…Kittylover.thats my stupid phone and my barely open eyes are wanting to respond asap!
On my laptop now having coffee.
It’s another beautiful day and have 2 more off work.Yippee!
I am desperatly trying to make things right with my daughter and the rest of my friends that I have blown off while I was too busy having sex with the sociopath and struggling just to make it through the day because I work…full time and dealing with his nonsense doubletalk was like having 2 full time jobs.
Now I have peace and am loving every minute of it.
At first, when I was without him I didnt know what to do with myself because he kept me tired and busy so that I was too exhausted to see what he was doing.


It’s a gorgeous day here, too. I apologized to my closest friends and my son, after I got out of the spath situation. My son still has resentment, and I don’t really blame him.


I understand the resentment by your son, I don’t know if my one and only child, my daughter will forgive me but not only is she dealing with not having her mom there..her dad, my ex husband..not the spath is dealing with terminal cancer.
This is another basketful of emotions because he was physically abusive when my daughter was a baby.She does not remember dear old dad throwing momma into the wall and trying to choke her out while I begged him not to do it in front of my crying 6 month old baby girl. Thats a whole other story. We have been divorced for over 10 years.
WTF, I was thinking about this last night.
Every relationship I have had starting with my first HS boyfriend has been abusive… I really need some serious help.
By the way when I went to MY dad, telling him that my husband was being physically and verbally abusive and that I needed help from him and my mom..I was turned down.
Yup, daddy told me..I can remember it like yesterday.
“This is what happens in marriage, go back home and work it out”.
Not OMG, that manput his hands on you? Come stay with us while you file for divorce.
Needless to say I don’t have much of a relationship with my parents. They are both alive and their late 70’s.
My daughter is stuck taking care of her sick father and just lost her grandma 2 weeks ago. He, my ex hauband is still controlling even though he is REALLY sick.
I feel bad for him and do what I can.
They live in the same city as me.
My daughter absouluty hates my spath. She is well eduated and saw through his bullshit from day one and remebers how horrible I was when he left me in 2006. She still cant believe that I gave him another(50) chance.
There is something wrong with me that I keep falling for the abusers…or are all men abusive on some level.
I am starting to wonder.
OK, I know its me, or a combo but I will find out.
I was in therapy after the 2006 abanodment and just started to scrach the surface and I lost my insurance and lost touch with her.
Oh that brings back another memory. OHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
In the 2006 deal, when he was going back and forth between me na wifey he actuall attended one of my therepy visits with me. It was after he left me and then came creeping back to me. That was a 2 hour long session with HIM crying and the therepist asking him why did he leave and why didnt he tell me. He made up some BS story about blah blah, I really dont remember but I do remember her pulling me aside after and telling me that he was play acting and lieing throughout the entire session and I was handing kleexex and holding his hand. BARF
OMG, I have to stop for now or I will dominate this website all day.
Sorry and thanks for listening.
Kitty, I hope you read this and be like:Holy crap, I don’t want to be like her.


Strong, That’s a lot of intense stuff you have dealt with and a lot of intense stuff going on for you now. The counselor who saw through the spath sounds like she could be helpful. Are you still seeing her?

I was married (and widowed) to a good man before I met the psychopath 10 years later, so I know there are good men in the world. I think that many elements in modern society and culture contribute to the development of psychopath traits on the physical level as well as the psychological level. (Like cancer is a more prevalent disease now than 50 years ago.) I think that some positive old fashioned values have been abandoned, along with the negative. Women are too often the breadwinners as well as keepers of the home, and men are becoming perpetual babies in general because positive natural male traits and positive natural female traits are not in vogue anymore. There is a lot more laziness, selfishness, and entitlement, which leads to unhappiness all around. Modern sexual ethics, like not sleeping with someone without a commitment, are often more harmful to women and an opportunity for men to exploit women. Although it didn’t help me, the psychopath and I waited until marriage to have sex, but turned out he was porn addicted and not heterosexual anyway….

It sounds like you are seeing things from a different perspective, like realizing how out of line your parents’ turning your request for help in leaving an abuser. It’s possible that your family of origin was somewhat disordered so you didn’t get to learn what healthy behaviors are. Maybe your Dad wasn’t evil, but just acting like he’d been taught. My parents were somewhat dysfunctional, but not evil. I think they were products of the times and the hardships they faced. They were good people in many ways. I know the mistakes I made in raising my son, some of which were very damaging to him, were out of my blindness and weakness and repercussions of life’s hardships I was dealing with.

It’s hard work, but it sounds like you have a lot of good insights, and the ability and motive to make changes in your life based on your revelations. It also sounds like you are doing a good job of not trying to take responsibility for everything and everyone in your family, which is a healthy attitude.


Oh boy,
I took a few days off work to relax and recoup.
I spent time with my daughter and just had some me time.
I have been eating healthy every day.
Then it happened.
Last night at 340am my cat work me from a sound sleep. He was jumping on me.
He does not ever do this.
I woke up and kitty was running back and forth in hunter mode between my bedroom and the window overlooking my back yard.
Then I heard someone between the houses right by my bedroom window.
I immediately called police and they came right away.
They drove around my house a few times shining a very bright light and looked in the yard.
Didn’t see anyone .
It was raining. I am terrified.
I found the back of a cellphone in the leaves this morning.
It was a new phone not one that was in the leaves over the winter.
I am pretty sure it was him .
Since I told him I met someone else and moved on I am so afraid.
I don’t want to think he is stalking again or one of his creepy friends is.
I really don’t know what he is capable of.


I am NOT missing him and could care less where he is.
I am well on my way!
Thanks to Donna and all of my LF buddies.


I am so sorry I somehow missed your post about him calling you and telling you he was sorry that he did that cheating because he was afraid you were going to kick him out,
Your relationship is worth saving blah blah.
Don’t you fall for it.
That’s exactly how I got sucked back in 10 times. The same words.
It’s a trick.
Don’t fall for it.
He’s using your vulnerability because you let him.
Don’t talk to him
You have worked hard.
Court date Monday.
Get rid of him.
He will ruin your life more.
Run Megan.
Don’t talk to him
No contact! !!!


Kittylover ,Megan,
I live in the same city your best friend does.
Reach out to Donna and maybe I can contact her?
I want you to call the domestic violence support line today.
This Spath will ruin your life.


My hearing is in Ft. Lauderdale, fl.

I do not have anyone to go with me. This Domestic Abuse place has been no help whatsoever.
called them last night AGAIN… the hotline…
girl just said.. go to the hearing… you do not need a lawyer.

no weekend hours? really?

I found his antipsychotic meds here… that he stopped taking three weeks ago…. should I bring them with me?

He has not spoken to his poor mom in years. lying about her. I tried to get him to talk to her. she had a heart attck last oct. and he did not care. she contacted me months ago and told me he was a sociopath and using me and will leave me.
he would not even cal her on christmas or anything.
she left me a message last night….
“You must have kicked Jerry out…. he called me last night and left a message about how sorry he is for keeping me away from his three kids and not talking to me in 20 years. I am not going to fall for it…. if you did get rid of him… I am proud of you. He must need money and a place to stay. ”

Strong… do you live anywhere nearby?

Oh…. I HAVE BEEN IN NO CONTACT SINCE LAST THursday… snce the moment I hit my knees… as he was stil getting in the car as I had kicked him out…
I hit my knees and typed you Lovefraud… that I had just kicked him out.
I have never contacted him since.
I blocked his numbers and texts that night. BECAUSE OF YOU.

I filed a restraining order the next day….

i have no interest in contact. He is not real. If I called Christopher Reeve (If he were still alive..) and asked to speak to Superman…. it would not be possible.
It was simply a character he portrayed.
It was not really him.

My psychologist will not even come with me. Or my psychiatrist. I guess since they all told me in Oct. to run…. and I fell back in three more times… and then my psychologist told me she couldnt see me if I were seeing him and gave me name of domestic abuse place.
I just wish she would be there and tel judge what she.. as a pro saw.

she will not do it b/c I stopped seeing her. I had brought my spath with me to see her! He told me she was a menopausal, stupid Jewish bitch who did not know a thing about love.
To start believing him about his love for me. not other people.

wish i could get a lawyer this weekend. i emailed and called places last night. no luck.
mu N/spath will try and switch things on me… but you know what? who the hell cares.
I tell the judge why I fear for my life…. and that is it.
It does not matter about my past… (the lies he will twist.)
he is dangerous… and i deserve and want protection. bada bing!

reach out to me please Strong and thank you for being there.


I am here for you.
OK, you tried the resources. They didn’t help and I am sorry.
Ok buck up. You are going to have to, like you said, do this on your own.
You can do it. Go before the judge, tell him/her your story and how he took advantage of your kindness and money and now you want him away.
Tell the judge that you feel threatened and scared of him and I wouldn’t bring up the stuff about his meds or mom, I dont think you will have to.
Make it all about how unsafe YOU feel and don’t worry about the people who fired him not supporting you, that’s pretty typical they don’t want to get involved.
Just go, plead your case. You took him in, he promised to pay you and he has not. He promised a life with you and cheated on you and put your health at risk with STD’s and your job.
Thats so telling that his mom reached out to you. He is burning bridges .
Thats what they do.
I am so proud of you, no contact.
You got this.
You stay strong.
I am here for you.
It will be ok.


Thaaaaaaaaaaaank you Strong. Thank u from the bottom of my hesrt.


You are welcome.
I feel your pain and since I lost it at work the other day I might not have a job on Monday but thats ok.
I will find another one just like I did before and was able to keep my own home since 2002 all on my own.
You can do it too!
Try to nourish your body ..I know you said you don’t have an appetite.
Get some Boost or Ensure to get some calories in you just sip it so that you don’t get sick again.
You friend,


Do you have to work today?
If not just take care of yourself and get some rest.
Keep reading and venting here as I am doing the same.
I have my kitties here and of coarse he fooled them too.
They loved him…but they love me more.
Eventually he will burn all of his bridges and probably lose his job too but oh well.
I saw something you posted about him being able to woo rich older ladies.
Mine said that too.
Who knows if its true or not.
It really doesn’t matter because he is gone from your life and he may find some other unsuspecting person to take him in.
Thats what they do, thats why rthey are so GOOD at it.
It’s all they think about. Remember they have no empathy for anyone. They are stuck in their own heads.
If I called or texted mine right now he would be here in a minute.
Then he would boo hoo, poor me routine and then go right along behind my back and do it over and over again until we saw no more.
Then they either go back to old ex’s or the new one’s they have been grooming.
It’s all a trick and so hurtful to the normal people here, us.
There is a risk quiz here on this site,
To see if you are a target. I have taken it many times and always come up a target.
Thats ok now because I know that now, and I have learned so much from Donna and this website.
Hearing the posts from the others, like we ALL are talking about the same person.
Read, read, post, vent.
Learn. Be good to yourself.
You actually found out pretty quickly and are doing better than you think.
Megan…please don’t beat yourself up.
You did nothing wrong.
He is a sociopath. His brain is wired wrong and you cant fix him. Nobody can.
This disorder is typically genetic and I found out mines mother, after meeting her 1 time is the one he got it from.
Your friend,


AnnettePL, Lan7, TTSP,
Good morning,
Can you please reach out to kittylover?
Try to convince her again to call or chat online regarding the domestic violence hotline?
Your LF budddy,

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