He makes me believe the lies and sucks me into the drama

Jan7, (there’s no reply button above, so I’ll post it here.)

con’t.

This will probably sound very stupid. Like it’s not a big deal. Part of what makes it a big deal, is that there isn’t any place I’ve ever found to talk about it where it does fit in.

In summary form, in my early 20s just as I left school and started to adjust to being out in the world,

I went for some minor amount of help from human affairs. That person sent me to a therapist he knew (now I know what he did was illegal and could have / would have gotten him fired).

That therapist in a matter of months completely turned my world upside down. The crazymaking mess that people here describe — that’s the kind of thing.

I went to her, without any mental health issues. I wanted some specific info about some illnesses because I was regularly helping people with them in my family and friends.

There’s a lot more. There always is, in these types of situations. Like everyone here says.

I wound up going 2xs a week, plus to a group in the same organization. For many years. Because it was 3 therapists, and a group with members, it was harder to realize how sick and twisted things were (since everyone was acting like it was normal).

One really minor example (to give an idea) was one of the group therapists telling me that I felt guilty because I’d sexually teased my dad when I was a kid. It made no sense to me. (And it’s the type of lie that perps tell childen and therapists work to UNDO.)

The thing I’d first seen here that fit so well, was that the pedophile had told her daughter that her mother (this person) wasn’t a good mother, that her love wasn’t acceptable, that he was the only one, and that the daughter couldn’t enjoy good because that would be rewarding the bad mother.

So much of that was in what I’d come to call psuedorealities that they made up.

In other words, they tried to create for me the image of abuse from my non-abusive family and deep damage within me when there wasn’t any.

It was something like being brainwashed and destroyed by a cult — but because it was therapists, I didn’t spot it soon enough. Everything they said at first, was within reasonable, to an untrained ear. Then it built on it’s own weird structure.

It went on for 6 years. I eventually found my way out.

It gets more complicated. I tried to find help. It didn’t work. To put it briefly, that it was therapy that was used for abuse, makes it much harder for therapists to deal with. (Including while I was trying to figure out whether to leave.)

I tried to move on, but my world kept blowing up. I’d do all the right things, and some bad mojo would come in.

There’s a three more big elements. I’ll write another time.

The therapist has been using the format of molestation and rape and other abuses to work on it, and element after element that mirrors them, has been coming up.

As i write, there are things on this site that match. It’s probably the crazy-making that makes more sense here than anyplace else I’ve looked around.

But it doesn’t fit totally well. It’s not physical. Though there was a guy involved for a while. The therapist pushed me into a relationship, that probably would have been physically abusive if it’d continued.

I’m not trying to leave. I got mad and left. There wasn’t any binding after I left (though there was a mess like that with the guy.) It was more about getting rid of the falsehoods they’d come up with, which wasn’t easy.

Now I seem to be almost at the door (exit door), but can’t seem to find it. It’s very likely the label on that door is “how she blamed me.” While I can see that, I haven’t gotten that click in my head that shifts it all.

So overall, I’m not sure why I’m here, and I’m not sure what I need.

—————-

I’m going to ask one favor. Please don’t use the words psychopath or sociopath and those type labels on this. Labels was a big part of how they did their abuse.

(Instead, I can talk about what I think, feel, what they did, how that felt.)

Well. That was a lot of drama. I waited a few days to mull it over. Coming back to this”

I was grossed out at where it went with the accusations and “guesses.” They were all completely false.

I’m a perfectly normal person, and my posts can be explained with perfectly normal explanations. For instance, that, as a person injured by some creepy people, I was hesitant to post my experiences” and that’s why it looked like I was “hiding” something, and maybe posting seemingly out of the blue.

The accusations have been like the type of crazymaking, mind-bending stuff that perps did to you all. There was very little effort at communication back and forth before jumping to conclusions. To the reaction, I’m concluding the old adage applies, that “when you find a hammer, everything is nail.” (In case that’s not obvious, when you learn about spaths, everything unpleasant is an spath or something like it.)

I’m used to being called warm, compassionate, and caring, so all of this (including the early upset reactions) are outside my norm.

I’m noticing my draw to the site is that I’ve never really talked about the experience in a place of people familiar with the crazy-making, twistings involved. I’ve talked with family and a few friends. I think it would make a big difference to me. (My whole family was impacted.)

I can’t imagine I’m the only person who’s come here with issues that impact their words.

—

I want to respond specifically to some of what I saw posted. After the first few responses, I didn’t read, so I may be missing things. (Because – I didn’t want hurtful or harmful thoughts, sloshing around in my head so I stopped reading.) There was a group gang up effect.

My situation that I experienced is similar to “false memory syndrome” with therapists. (There have been court cases on it.) It can be looked up.

I haven’t figured out what was upsetting about my original posts. I’m thinking pointing out the flags, might trigger the creepy gross feeling that goes with knowing you’ve been dupped, at least the feeling I’ve had. I meant it as a counter “simple” thought to use as a coping mechanism when the idea entered of “does he care about me,” since that’s a slippery slope question. I wouldn’t want to trigger that awful feeling in anyone. (It’s been a while since I was in acute recovery stage.)
In every instance, the perp’s craftily done something to block the target/victim from seeing or reacting to the flags. (The sick feeling gets better as you figure out what ”“they- did to manipulate it.) To me, that’s the most useful conversation targets can have, and share.., to reduce the power of perps, and also reduce that individual from getting targeted by another perp down the road. By the time you realize something’s wrong, there’s often too much setup, to get out easily emotionally.
(On timing of my comments being off (ex valid thought but wrong stage of recovery, misreading dates, not posting on my own stuff soon enough)” there’s something huge with timing in how the perps setup with me, and timing mis-matches have been an issue in my world. My therapist pointed it out as a theme, but we haven’t figured it out fully yet.)

I’ve seen a lot of labeling nearly anyone harmful as a spath on this site. There certainly are many people described here who are one. I wanted to discuss and get insights before jumping to a conclusions on my situation. The descriptions don’t seem to match to my perps exactly. I was concerned that there’d be a quick labeling, and no discussion.
”my concern was warranted. It happened. Though instead of at them, the quick labeling was done at me.

Everyone on this site is doing “armchair therapy” for each other. I have a degree in psychology and if I’d wanted to be a therapist, I would have been one. I did a 2nd degree at the same time and picked that for a career. If someone wanted to be armchair therapisting, the comments would have been oozing super-support of every last thing. I was focused on my own stuff, and that was impacting my comments. Same as everyone else.
Why this effected me — the part of me that wants to talk about my own experiences is scared. By repeatedly being told I’m here for another reason, that part that is having trouble coming out of it’s shell, is feeling “not heard and denied.”

Remembertoforget –
Irrelevant to the rest of this, but I had a thought (kind of armchair-wise). You were trying to figure out if it’s attachment disorder, or antisocial personality or borderline personally ”“ and there’s a theme in there. It sounds like you’re trying to describe an unnatural deattaching (maybe momentary). (According to my therapist, moments of unexpected or misplaced momentary disconnect are typical in perp-style. They trigger a fear, and make it harder for the target to think their way out of what’s happening or to see clearly.) So whatever the right diagnosis, maybe focusing on that (how it felt to you) will help figure out what’s bothering you about it?

On “salad talk” –
There was no effort to understand what I’d written. You all were angry, and so you got dismissive. (It was obvious.) In part early on to retaliate, or later to join the group effort.
“Salad talk” ”“ refers to the disjointed phrases, and single words strung together by schizophrenics and manic depressives during an episode. It doesn’t refer to something that’s poorly worded or is unfamiliar so it’s not easy to understand. So it has nothing to do with anything.

I personally think that labeling everyone who’s a perpetrator and abuser as an spath is confusing. There are a lot of creepy, crawly people who do horrible things, who don’t fit the definition, and should be avoided just because, no further thought needed. I also think focusing on how someone else is “unable to care” sometimes doesn’t add in focus on how it made the victim feel. And how it makes you feel — is the best way to re-learn (re-setup) one’s barriers while regaining trust towards “other” people. (It’s all tricky to do of course.)
Some of my comments that seem out of sorts with the themes often posted on here, come out of my thinking this way.

I’ll try to describe this again. I don’t know if it will make any sense: The question of whether someone cares is irrelevant to once they cross a threshold of “too much.” They can be charming and loving and helpful in life, and the question can keep going back and forth, and even the label “can’t care” keeps the question alive as a topic in one’s head. Get to how it made the victim feel in those moments of non-caring, and the victim can hang onto their protective anger for longer.

—

I’ve been hesitant to reply. I wouldn’t want to post anything that would hurt someone. Who knows this would get interpreted by anyone and if someone would make themselves feel bad over it. On the other hand, I have a right to post what this experience felt like to me. It’s been terrifying in some ways.

I may check in on replies. If there was anything positive, I missed it, so if repeated I might see it.

I still need a place to talk about my stuff, so over time I’ll see what I feel.

I have some other thoughts, but I guess that’s good enough.