Many people have asked Lovefraud to suggest a treatment program to help them overcome the personal devastation of a relationship with a sociopath. A friend of Lovefraud, Sandra L. Brown, M.A., offers a program for women who are recovering from such debilitating encounters.
Sandra Brown is the author of How to Spot a Dangerous Man, which was reviewed in a previous blog post. The book describes eight types of dangerous men—most of them are sociopaths, or partial sociopaths. Brown then explains how women override their internal warning signals and get involved with these men, even when their instincts are shouting, “Run away!”
If you’ve been in a relationship with a sociopath, at some point, of course, you found yourself devalued and discarded. He merrily moved on to a fresh new supply. You’re in a crumpled heap, a shell of the person you once were.
Many of you have asked Lovefraud: How can I heal? Will I ever be able to love again?
The answer is yes, you can recover, and yes, you can love again. Sandra Brown’s program may help you.
Healing retreats
Sandra Brown offers four-day retreats at her facility in the hills of North Carolina. The program is called Healing the Aftermath of Pathological Love Relationships.
First, Brown explains pathology 101—adults with personality disorders are hardwired to behave the way they do. They are not going to change.
Then Brown looks at the dynamics of a relationship with a disordered person. The lies, the manipulation, the crazy-making—this is nothing like a relationship like a normal man. The point is to help you understand that you were not imagining things. Yes, the guy really did lie to you. And no, he never loved you.
But then Brown helps you look at your own life to figure out why you were vulnerable to the sociopath. What did you learn in your family as a young girl? How do you view men? What was going on for you internally throughout your life?
Many women come out of the sociopathic relationship with post-traumatic stress disorder, which can be reactivated by future traumatic events. If this happened to you, Brown teaches self-care techniques and symptom management to help you in the future.
When to participate
The most beneficial time to participate in Brown’s retreat is after you’ve been out of the relationship for four to six months or more. “We are a good program for women who have figured out what he is, have left, and need some psycho-education that they did, in fact, make the right decision,” Brown says. The program then helps you identify internal traits that made you vulnerable, and issues from your family of origin.
The program is not appropriate in some cases:
- Women in crisis. If you’re recently out of the relationship, or if you’re still trying to decide whether you should leave, it’s too soon to gain benefit from this program.
- Women using online dating sites. After a relationship with a sociopath, Brown believes you should stop dating for a year or two, until you’re closer to being healed. “If you’re on Match.com, don’t call me,” she says.
Adult children of sociopaths
Some Lovefraud readers have realized that their parents were sociopaths. For you, Brown offers another program called Adult Children of a Pathological Parent.
Space in all retreats is limited—only six participants are accepted for each session. For more information, visit SafeRelationships.com.
STN, your question about “can they love their own children?” I do not think so, I don’t think that they are capable of “love” in the sense that they feel anything but OWNERSHIP of another person. As Dr. Robert Hare says, if you ask a psychopath if she loves her children of course she will say “yes” but she doesn’t equate the fact that she doesn’t FEED them with not loving them.
I have seen people I knew were psychopaths do things that were APPARENTLY, on the surface, “unselfish” and very caring. However, if you look at the MOTIVE they do these things with (which will eventually become apparent) it is for some self aggrandisement or setting up a victim “for the kill.”
It is ALWAYS about THEM. If they were to loan you money, it is not to help you out, but to get you obligated to them in some way in which they can use you.
When you “fall in love” with someone our bodies secrete hormones to help with the “bonding” so that hopefully our children will have two parents to help raise them. This is nature’s way of providing two adults to look after the offspring. These hormones last for about three years, I have read, and then they fade away, but hopefully, in the meantime you have established a “relationship’ that transcends this flush of “first love” and a couple will stay together out of mutual respect, caring, and friendship, even though that first “flush of love” is long gone.
I’m not sure if the P gets those hormones when they are in a new conquest or not, possibly. But they hold out the “bait” to you of the “best relationship every” and your hopes get built up that you are going to spend the rest of your life in this ecstasy and then, at some point, you realize it is ALL A LIE—maybe 3 months or 30 years, it doesn’t matter, but you realize that your DREAM LOVE was all “smoke and mirrors” and that not only to they NOT love you, they scorn you, totally disrespect you, care not a flip for your feelings…..and you crash like an eagle with it’s wings torn off, spiraling to the ground where you lie bleeding and wounded wondering what the heck happened to you—what airliner hit you?
You didn’t see it coming, once you were soaring so high, gliding on the thermals, and the next thing you know you are plummeting downward at the speed of light. You look up and you see your mate, your wonderful vision of perfection, flying off into the sunset, not even noticing that you are bleeding.
They pretend to be whatever it is that you WANT them to be, just like a fisherman uses a lure that resembles the kind of food that the particular fish he is after likes…it sucks you in, but it isn’t real, but the HOOK is REAL.
OMG – OxDrover – that is a perfect analogy…that is exactly it. My S says he loves his children, but does not feed him. His son is an object. And I accept that…and my son – who will be 18 in 2-months, accepts that. Time will tell what effect his paternal bond had on his psyche…But, I had to make sure I raised a man fit for the world…not fit for his father.
I went through much turmoil with my son’s father with a belief that a boy needed a father. But his father wouldn’t even kiss him on the cheek when he was little. Shook hands with him like he was some guy from around the way when he decided to grace him with his presence.
STN I know what you have are good memories..shrouded with the realization it was all a work of art of a con. It is Easy for me to look back now and accept what my situation really was..It will become easier for you, also, with time. It is part of healing. Keep your head up.
RW
Gillian, “My God, I made enormous decisions based on this Fraud, decisions that profoundly impacted my children when all along I thought I was acting in their best interests.” I feel exactly the same way. What you said about the memories everywhere – I go through that too, but not very often lately. If I remember, your a couple of months behind me in time. Everyone has a different time frame but the last 3 months have made a huge difference for me. I felt like I hit bottom and wasn’t going to climb out, but I did. I feel like I’m taking small steps in the right direction. I haven’t talked to my ex since Dec. That last time is what started the downward spiral. Now that I haven’t communicated with him other than through TM and lawyers I feel so much better. I found out yesterday my divorce is final. I’m looking at this as an opportunity to become the person I truly am and want to be instead of the person I had become after so many years of abuse.
STN, I agree with OxDrover. I don’t think they can love their children either. Bad Dad looked at our son with wonder and “love” for as long as he looked just like him. When he started looking and acting more like me and my family, Bad Dad started losing interest. I get complements all the time about what a nice young man he is. Even the nun who lunch monitors told him to tell his mother she did a good job raising him. lol – You have to know the stories about this nun. Legend has it she makes kindergartners cry on a regular basis. Bad Dad will never know what he is missing with his son or does he care to. Though I’m sure he puts on a good show for the people in his life he’s now fooling. I’m sure they think he misses his son terribly.
OxDrover, your last 3 paragraphs – great description.
There are so many of us out there. I recently found out an acquaintance has a P ex husband. Her story is much worse than mine, but yet the same. One “minor” thing he does is short her $5 dollars in child support every month. He has done much much worse, including physical violence, but when I heard that – it’s just so typical of a S.
Shorts her $5! GREAT!!! I love it, SO LIKE A P!!!! At least that is one thing you can laugh about, but how pointless to do such crappy stuff, yet to them it is a VICTORY to just get by with ANYTHING crappy or tacky, or hateful.
EVen after the Trojan Horse P had done so many things to me, my house, and my animals (locking them up without food or water in the heat of the summer) when I wasn’t home, I think the WORST thing he did was to sit in the court room and SMIRK at me…like he had WON. He had “gotten by” with what he had done, and even though he was in jail, he still felt like he had WON!
I don’t know why I can’t get that PICTURE of him sitting in the court room in his orange jump suit and his jelly flip-flops, handcuffed to the criminall sitting next to him, and yet he SMIRKED—HE DID NOT CARE HE WAS IN JAIL…he still had “gotten away” with his petty crap.
I know it isn’t logical or rational that I should be so concerned or fixate on that darned SMIRK, but it was his final STAB at me was to sit there with the smirk.
Reminds me of one of those old stupid jokes, about the guy who’se house was invaded by a motorcycle gang. They robbed the house and terrorized him and his wife. They drew a circle on the floor with chalk and told him he had to stand in the circle or they would kill him. Then in front of him they raped his wife and tore the house apart.
When they left, his wife was crying and he was LAUGHING hysterically…his wife asked him why he was laughing that their home was ruined and she was raped, etc. and he answered “Well, while they weren’t looking, I stepped out side the circle.”
The holding back the $5 on child support is sort of the Ps way of “stepping outside the circle” and the smirk is also his way of “stepping outside the circle.” Just anything to “get even” with those of us who have given them N-injury. After all if we weren’t like we are, their lives would be wonderful, after what they have done for us, and for us to treat them like we do…..shame shame on us! LOL
STN,
I have a little free time right now and then I’m not going to have much time to spend at my computer for the next few days, so I wanted to quick write something back.
How did he do it for 18 years? I sit here shaking my head, I can hardly believe he did it myself. He was so damn convincing. Actually, if it had not been for a couple of wild flukes, he would have gotten away with leaving me for another woman the end of last May and I would never have known why. He was planning on leaving under false pretenses, making something up, some need to be alone, whatever.
A friend’s husband says he doesn’t understand how he got away with so much for 18 years. He said there must have been red flags. My daughter from my first husband says that this guy doesn’t really know my husband; my husband (her step-dad) had everyone fooled. The duplicity is unbelievable. He was such a great actor. Phone calls to me several times a day. Ending every conversation with, “I love you.” Sweet cards at birthday, anniversaries and Christmas. All our friends thought we had the best marriage. He was affectionate. He made me sushi. He said the right things.
But it was all a lie. I never really knew what he was thinking or doing. When we were apart I couldn’t wait to be together; when we were together he couldn’t wait for me to leave.
He lied to everyone, kept a different story and mask going for any number of people. I realize now he can work with a large group of people who interact every day and each one of them sees a different man. One can be the woman he’s having a long-term affair with, one can be a casual fling, one can be a co-worker who sincerely believes he is a faithful, loyal husband. To some men he is a Christian, to others he’s a player.
I don’t know how he did it. I don’t know how he does it. I recently asked him how he could be so sure none of the women from work he had sex with would not talk to each other. How could he be so confident?
He said he always thought he was too smart.
Evil is more like it.
As for his sense of wonder at the birth of our daughter, I don’t know. It sure seemed real at the time, but then again everything seemed real, and now I know he doesn’t care about her.
He knew the brakes were shot on my car since the end of last October and he said nothing. He knew my daughter often rode in that car too, out of the mountains.
I think all he ever cared about is his image. To pass for normal. Maybe part of him wanted to be normal. Maybe he thought having more children would help. I don’t know. He definitely wanted a daughter; he already had a son. I think for his ego. I’m not sure.
But I do think the only reason he wants to have anything to do with her now is to use her. He has fallen in love with a new woman (he dumped the “other woman” in December), who is 18 years younger than him, and her parents live nearby, and they are probably close to his age, and I know what he’s thinking. He wants to marry this woman and he’s thinking it’s not going to look real good if his 17-year-old daughter doesn’t want to have anything to do with him. I guess he’ll have a lot of ‘splaining to do.
Hi Everyone,
What Oxdrover describes is exactly my experience. I saw through it in time to fool him, but I nevertheless went through it, exactly like the hell you describe.
It’s the hook, they want you to be hooked so that you will do whatever they want. And then they despise you for being dependent. Ew.
With mine, basically I caught on to the pattern late last year, but knew I was still hooked and couldn’t just walk away. So I tricked him into thinking everything was fine with us, and I fed him HUGE doses of NS. I wanted his addiction to grow,while mine secretly got weaker. Anyway, I had him right where I wanted him, eventually. Basically, he let his guard down in ignorance/arrogance. He thought he’d always be able to get me back, as long as he just pushed the right buttons. So he didn’t have any back ups, no one else was around to supply his NS, and I knew it. And that’s when I slammed the door in his f-ing face and walked away for good. I left him high and dry on purpose. And he’s spent the last several months climbing the walls, and re-grouping.
That said, it broke my wretched heart to do it. I saw tears in his eyes as I left. Now I have no idea what they meant. I wonder if he just realized that he’d been had. Can’t tell. Part of me thinks he did love me, in small portions, as he was able. But maybe not. I can’t tell.
Anyway, Oxdrover, you are so dead on with your description of the trap they set for us, the hook being deliberately diguised and then dangled right before us, how they tailor the hook just for us and what we want. They feed on our dreams and vulnerabilities. Ew.
Revenge: it happens that my N was targeted by a S/P and she’s playing him like a fiddle – she plays him exactly the way he’s played every woman he ever used for NS, and he’s too arrogant to realize that she’s driving away all of his backup sources of NS in his life. His bill for years of narcissistic indulgence and maniplation has just arrived, and smacked him down at least a few notches. It’s a nasty little co-dependency there, and it’s precisely what each of them deserves. What goes around does come around, if the victims just get themselves up off the floor and away from the mess. At least that’s what I believe.
I’m just glad that I got to be the one who outsmarted him and his manipulations, at least I outsmarted him long enough to send him into an ocean of pain, an addict without his NS, it’s exactly what he’d do to me to get me to submit. Monster.
The idealist in me holds out hope that he’s got enough decency in him somewhere that the pain will get to him. But I’m hoping from a clear distance now… I have no more investment in the outcome of his personal struggle, I can’t afford to stay invested. No way. My goal is to get myself to a secure place in life where this can’t happen ever again, to me or anyone I love.
Anyway, thanks for writing.
Bye everyone,
STN
gillian . ; MINE WAS LIKE THAT TOO SO DIFFRENT AROUND OTHERS AND DIFFERENT SITUATIONS. AND THE NICE LOVE TALK AND BIRTHDAY CARDS A MATTER OF WEEKS BEFORE HE LEFT ME IT WAS MY BIRTHDAY HE TOOK ME TO A NICE EXPENSIVE RESTURAUNT AND PAID FOR THE WHOLE NIGHT HE BOUGHT ME A NEW DRESS TO WEAR, AND ON THE BIRTHDAY CARD HE WROTE ; HAPPY BIRTHDAY AND I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO SPENDING MANY MORE WITH YOU. THEN A BOUT THREE WEEKS AFTER ALL THAT HE LEFT ME. ALSO ON NEW YEARS WHICH WAS AT THE SAME TIME AT MIDNIGHT WE KISSSED AND TOLD EACH OTHER THAT WE LOVED EACH OTHER STARING INTO OUR EYES. SO YOU CAN IMAGINE MY DISBELIEFE WHEN HE SAID I AM LEAVING. ONCE WHEN I CAUGHT HIM OUT DOING SOME FLIRTING AT WORK AND ONE OF THE WOMAN TOLD ME I CONFRONTED HIM AND I SAID YOU KNOW WOMAN TALK TO EACH OTHR ABOUT THINGS THEY TELL THINGS SO DONT THINK WOMAN ARE STUPID AND WE DONT KNOW STUFF THATS GOING ON IT ALWAYS COMES OUT EVENTUALLY IF NOT SOONER. AND IT DIDNT MAKE HIM CHANGE HIS WAYS HE JUST KEPT DENYING HIS BEHAVIOUR WHENEVER I CAUGHT HIM OUT I WAS STUPID TO ACCEPT IT I SHOULD NOT HAVE I SHOULD HAVE ENDED IT THEN. ALSO WHEN WE FIRST STARTED TO SEE EACH OTHER WE WORKED TO GETHER AND I WAS HAVING A DAY OFF WORK BUT HE WAS WORKING, I CALLED HIM AT LUNCH AS USUAL, AND WHEN TALKING HE SEEMED TOTALLY DIFFERENT HE DIDNT SAY ANY OF THE ROMANTIC STUFF HE USUALLY DID OR USE MY LITTLE NICK NAMES HE USUALLY DID OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT IN FACT HIS WHOLE TONE WAS DIFFERENT. AFTER THAT DAY I LATER FOUND OUT HE WAS WITH ONE OF THE GIRLS AT WORK WHO WAS ON HER LUNCH BREAK AND SHE SAID HE FOLLOWED HER AROUND THE WHOLE LUNCH BREAK AND HE EVEN GOT A PHONE CALL AND STILL SAT WITH HER WHILE TALKING AND DIDNT MOVE AWAY LIKE YOU WOULD IF YOU GOT A PHONE CALL. WELL THAT WAS MY PHONE CALL AND I CONFRONTED HIM ABOUT IT AND HE SAID IT WAS NOT TRUE AND DIDNT FOLLOW HER AORUND THAT DAY AT ALL. AFTER THAT I TOLD HIM SHE TOLD ME HE WAS VERY DIFFERENT TOWARD THAT GIRL IN FACT HE DIDNT LIKE HER ANYMORE AFTER THAT. THIS WAS IN THE BEGINING WHEN I WAS JUST GETTING TO KNOW HIM I COULDNT BELIEVE THE DIFFERENCE IN HIM ON THE PHONE AND HOW BLATANT TO SIT THERE WITH HER WHILE TALKING TO ME. THIS WAS A BIG BAD SIGN I SHOULD HAVE RUN AWAY THEN. ALSO THE GIRL I AM TALKING ABOUT HERE I GOT TO KNOW HER WELL THRU WORK AND SHE SUFFERED FROM AN EATING DISORDER. MAYBE HE COULD SENSE HER FRAGILITY, SHE TOLD ME SHE GOT A BAD VIB E FROM HIM SHE FOUND HIM CREEPY AND SAID HE WAS UGLY ALSO SHE HAD A BOYFRIEND AND DIDNT LIKE THE WAY MY EX STILL FLIRTED AND ANNOYED HER IT WAS INA PROPRIATE. I SHOULD HAVE LISTEND TO HER WHY DID I CHOOSE TO IGNORE ALL OF THIS I STILL WONDER I AM SMART, WHAT WAS I THINKING I MUST HAVE BEEN VERY LONELY . HIS BEHAVIOUR WHEN I THINK BACK NOW SEEMS ALMOST IN HUMAN LIKE AN ALIEN OR SOMETHING . HE WAS A GOOD ACTOR HE TOLD ME HIM SELF HE LOVED ACTING AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN A PROFESSIONAL. IT WAS OK FOR HIM TO OPENLY FLIRT BEHIND MY BACK AND GOD KNOWS WHAT ELSE BUT I FI SO MUCH A S WAS NICE TO A WAITER HE WOULD GET JELOUS AND SULK. ALSO I DONT KNOW WHY THEY DONT WORRY ABOUT GETTING CAUGH OUT ITS AS IF IT DOESNT WORRY THEM. BUT ONCE WE HAD A DISAGREEMENT AND HE MADE ME ANGRY AND I THINK HE THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO LEAVE HIM HE TOLD ME HE FELT SICK THAT I WAS UPSET AND MIGHT LEAVE HIM AND OTHER TIMES HE CRIED AND BEGGED ME NOT TO LEAVE SAYING I CANT LOSE YOU. HE WAS REALLY EMOTIONALLY DISTRAUGHT, I THINK THEY HAVE TO LEAVE ON THEI R TERMS AND THEY DONT LIKE TO BE THE ONES GETTING DUMPED. DOES ANY ONES ELSE AGREE I WOULD L0VE YOUR FEED BACK HERE. THANKS A GAIN.
OX DOVER; WHAT IS N INJURY? SORRY FOR NOT KNOWING BUT I HAVENT HEARD OF IT BEFORE. CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO ME. THANKS
Jules, if you wouldn’t use ALL CAPS, your posts would be easier to read…:) thanks!
Ox Drover, I understand the smirk thing. It’s sometimes the littlest things that get me the most. Things that nobody else would even notice, but I know what they mean and he knows what they mean. Secret torment. People can’t understand unless they have experienced it. I didn’t understand what was happening all those years until I got slapped in the face with a betrayal I couldn’t explain away or deny. Although I think if he would have gotten dumped by the gf or cold feet before I grasped what had happened and he wanted to stay, I would have ended up some how saying I was sorry to him for making him so unhappy and driving him away. Thank God he left. I truly was so messed up and brainwashed. Healing is a long painful process, but so worth it in the end. (I’m not at the end yet so that’s at least what I keep telling myself. LOL)