Lovefraud recently heard from a woman who was concerned for her daughter. Here is her e-mail:
Currently, our daughter is married to a sociopath. He has taken us (her parents) for thousands and thousands of dollars, then turned her against us. These people victimize people and are somehow able to make themselves look like the victim. They have 2 small children.
He has completely isolated her from her family, including her sister. He completely hates me and has made me the enemy, for I started seeing through him. Do you have any idea how I can possibly reach her to make her see the pattern? This man has felonies on his record for scheming to defraud; he has cheated people all his adult life. I have found out many other disturbing things about his past that she is not aware of. I want to inform her of these things, however many people feel she won’t believe it. Like your sociopath, this one said he was in the Gulf War; he never was. Instead he went AWOL from the service. He said he had a masters degree in accounting, but he has no college degree of any sort. He’s had over 20 jobs and moved over 30 times. He is 12 years older than our daughter, has a terrible temper. We worry about her and the babies all the time.
What’s a mother to do? On the one hand, she sees knows that her daughter’s husband is toxic. On the other hand, her daughter is a grown woman making her own decisions.
Sociopathic manipulation
The woman’s daughter is being manipulated by a professional. Sociopaths gradually draw in their victims with flattery and half-truths. Then they hold on to their victims with empty promises or threats. Eventually the victims, confused by the alternating charm and rage, are emotionally off balance and doubting their own perceptions.
It happened to me. It happens to everyone snared by a sociopath.
The problem for me was that I didn’t know about sociopaths. I had no idea that it was possible for a man who consistently claimed that he loved me, to lie, cheat on me, and take my money. I had no idea such evil existed.
Friends and family
Sociopaths put a lot of energy into maintaining the charade for their victims. They don’t put the same energy into manipulating people on the periphery. Consequently, the friends and family of the victim can often see the deception when the victim doesn’t.
I think friends and family should speak up, in whatever way will get through, while maintaining a relationship with the victim. I also think friends and family should not enable the sociopath by continuing to give money or whatever else he is demanding. The sooner the supply ends, the sooner the sociopath will leave.
I suggested that the woman do her best to maintain contact with her daughter, even though the sociopath has isolated her. At some point, he will abandon her. When he does, I recommended that the woman not be judgmental toward her daughter.
I know the devastation of being victimized by a sociopath. Once I realized the truth, what I needed was not criticism, but the support of people who cared about me.
I am the child of a socopath-my father. needless to say, I am quite maladjusted at 25. Are there any book or online groups to help with childrenof sociopaths?
For support, I suggest you visit these forums. The people who participate are not professionals, but they all have experience dealing with sociopaths, and are happy to offer advice.
http://groups.msn.com/PSYCHOPATH/home.msnw
http://groups.msn.com/FamilyandFriendsAffectedByAsPD/introductions.msnw
heispureevil, it sounds like you are handling this very well, especially in the NOT enabling him with any money. As Donna’s article points out… you need to maintain contact with your daughter, so you are probably right about the not wanting to badger her constantly. It is a tough situation, when I was involved with a man who was toxic to me… I don’t know if anyone could have gotten me out of the FOG… I really loved him and the biggest problem was I loved him more than myself. It really hurt when I realized he never loved me. I hope you will stay and read more articles and post again, maybe you will get some more ideas and there must be someone out there who has dealt with this same situation that might be able to give you more insight than I can. I just wanted you to know that this site is a very supportive place and your are in my thoughts and prayers.
heispureevil, I started thinking that maybe if he’s not going to get any money out of this… maybe he’ll just move on to someone else. The way he “lures” her back in is part of her addiction to him, she is in love with the person she thought he was, she might think that he is going to turn back into that charming / loving man, we know he’s not, but she is hanging on to that hope. How do we turn a lilght bulb on in someone’s head? I’d like to know myself in case something like this happens to my daughter, or God help me, if I ever do something like this again myself.
heispureevil
This is just my opinion, so for what it is worth…..
Your daughter sounds like I was. I didn’t believe evil existed like this, I truly believed he loved me because he said it over and over again. I am not sure anyone could have stopped me going through it. I went through it to learn the lesson that yes evil like this exists and it hurts like hell to find out, but I had to find out myself. So what I suggest is this.
Do not advise her to leave etc. Do not label him this that and the other. Rather spend the energy on BEING PRESENT TO HER…..listen, mirror back, accept she is caught in a web and she , only she can get herself out. Support her by being there, but not trying to fix it. She is going to find out herself and then you can gently assist her in connecting to her own inner knowing, her own assessment of the situation.
To go against her in anyway could make her rebel against you and stay with the monster…use I feel messages to her rather than HE IS A LIAR say “I feel very concerned, I know it’s your life and Its not my place to tell you what to do, but I am feeling very sad and worried about you…” then zip it and feel whatever you are feeling….leaving her to gradually make her own emotional connection
As for the psychopath, he will use her up and then throw her aside. He will extract her energy and essence until she is an empty shell and then dump her….off to find a new fresher fruitful target. Watch the need for revenge, outbursts, plots to get him…because you wont …there isn’t anybody to get. He is a hologram of human being. Best of luck.
Mother:
My family situation is similar to yours in that my brother is married to a psychopath, and they have a 6-year old daughter together.
The only reason my mother and I are NOT isolated from my brother and my niece is because my brother insisted we care for the child so they could both work.
The funny thing is…before my sister-in-law was engaged to my brother, all she wanted was to “be married, have kids, & be a stay-at home mom.”
Then, after she got married and had a child, she decided she was bored, and thought it would be good to go back to work.
She wanted to put the baby in daycare, but my brother (and my mom) would not allow it. That’s how we ended up being the child care providers.
In caring for this child, we discovered something was very wrong. And, it took me 4 years to figure out what exactly the problem was, because there was SO MUCH gaslighting going on, and I did not know there were terms to describe all of this until I found LoveFraud about a year ago.
I agree with everyone who is telling you to maintain contact with your daughter. This is crucial.
I also read that your daughter has 2 children with this man?
You should be very concerned about these children, as well. There is a genetic component to sociopathy, and the kids could develop some of the same personality traits as the father.
If the father is not hurting or emotionally/sexually abusing his children, then consider yourself very lucky.
You do NOT want your son-in-law to know that you are onto him. This will only make matters worse. Do not confront him, or engage in any kind of verbal altercations with him. It’s futile. Just let him think that everything is fine.
(This is easier said than done, because you probably want to punch him in the face for what he is doing to your family, I know.)
You need to concentrate on your daughter and her children, and their well-being.
You are NOT going to be able to convince your daughter that she is married to a con-artist in one conversation. She’s in the FOG, and she “loves” him. So, you are fighting an uphill battle there. Going in with “guns blazing” and yelling at the top of your lungs about what kind of a man she is married to will only cause her to shut down. It’s a KILL the MESSENGER type of situation, and YOU are the MESSENGER. It does not matter that you are right. She won’t hear that.
Instead you want to study the husband’s ACTIONS, and point out disturbing patterns that you see in his behavior. Point these things out to your daughter at the appropriate TIME.
I believe TIMING is very important when you are trying to “enlighten” someone about a sociopath in their life.
If you do it at the right time, they just may open their eyes a little, but you need to show a PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR.
Just pointing out an isolated incident is NOT going to get the job done.
You need to show a pattern of behavior, a timeline, and how it all fits together.
This may be more difficult for you if you are isolated. That’s one of the reasons I think it’s imperitive to maintain contact with the victim…then you can also keep your eye on the abuser.
In summary, you need to feed the victim bits of information in SMALL DOSES at the right time, in order to be heard at all.
You may become frustrated, because the victim cannot see something that is SO CLEAR to everyone else.
Honestly, I feel like I have done everything but sky-write it in big letters across the sky for my brother, and he still does not seem to be getting it. I just want to slap him along side the head sometimes.
But, I was in a toxic relationship once myself, and Donna’s advice is right.
The victim needs love, support and compassion.
I wish I could leave you with something positive, but there really is nothing positive about being stuck with a psychopath in the family.
You are going to need lots of PATIENCE & STAMINA to get through this ordeal. It’s a horrible way to live, and I do not recommend it to anyone.
That’s why No Contact is preached to infinity on this site.
It really is the only way to save your own life.
From everything I’ve seen and read, being married to a psychopath and having children with them really complicates the No Contact rule. In fact, it makes it almost impossible.
Educate yourself about personality disorders, and learn to recognize those RED FLAGS, so that you don’t get taken in again.
I cannot stress that enough.
Dear He is pure evil,
(and yes, he IS!)
My opinion is this, he has “bonded” her to him sort of like a person who is hypnotized. There is a book recommended on here called the “Betrayal Bond” about trauma-bonding and it is very important concept–like the Stockholm Syndrome that made Patty Hearst become “bank robber Tonya” after a period of time being captive with her kidnappers.
You didn’t explain how your FAMILY having money was benefitting HIM (at least at present) however, if your Family is supporting your daughter (and via her, HIM) then you might want to reconsider this support if it is possible to do so.
If you criticize HIM to her, she will “defend” him, because you are “questioning” her judgment in her choice of mates.
It is a difficult situation all around. I had a son married to a P and she definitely was looking for $$$, eventually when she found that there would be NO MONEY for her, she even tried to kill my son (along with her boyfriend) afrter stealing $25,000 from my mother. Though my son “saw the light” about his now X-wife, the truth is, that his relationship to me is not what I wish it was, he has some emotional problems too and has consistently (I think) made some poor judgments is friends/lovers.
I definitely empathize with your situation, and wish I had a magic formula you could follow, but I would suggest the “Betrayal Bond” book for a start on learning how the man has gained “control” over your daughter. God bless your family and Good Luck!
Dear everyone:
In looking at this post, some of my own experiences came to mind…again 😛
After my ex and I broke up in June, my parents directly told me that “he is never welcome back into our home…we are tired of seeing him do everything to everyone and we are not going to be a part of it anymore.” I dont live at my parents, however, we are very close and I see them every weekend (one of the many ‘perks’ to being with me in my ex’s eyes I think…my parents are VERY cool, like to play cards, drink some beers, laugh and eat…the polar opposite of his family).
That same day, my oldest brother, who my ex seemed to ‘idolize’ due to his genuine nature and friendly demeanor called to tell me…OUT OF THE BLUE…that he hasn’t wanted to go to my ma and dads because he didn’t want to be around the ex. My brother seemed to feel that my ex had been ‘using’ everyone for about the past 6 months or so, so he and my sister in law had stayed away.
At the time all this information was shared with me….on the same day…I remember hearing the words, accepting what they were saying, nodding my head, and agreeing. I hadnt accepted though just exactly WHAT they were saying because they were being subtle with me so not to come off aggressive and attack me. They were telling me they were ON to his game and had been for a while and they were NO LONGER GONNA PLAY!
My ex and I, coincidentally, began speaking again and THIS time, right off the bat my eyes were wide open! He lured me back with offering to take me to a concert we both loved. At that time, I remember thinking to myself ‘hell, maybe I can use him this time around…at least for the concert.” There was a vengeful piece of me that really didnt want to try for the connection anymore because he had fucked shit up so bad that now even my FAMILY was disgusted (this should exemplify just how hard my ex worked at ruining his own destiny with my family as it’s pretty hard to get them to say someone is not welcome in their house).
We went, and the smoozy, smoozy, lovey dovey, things are great in paradise act was on full force for about 2 weeks. I had to go to my grandmas 90th birthday party and tell him he wasn’t welcome at the function as my family had told me he wasnt welcome around them. As you can imagine, he wasn’t pleased with this information at all! He honestly thought he would pull his bullshit stunt of breaking up with me, take me to a concert without me telling anyone what was going on, and squirm his way right back into my whole life without so much as having to explain himself to anyone!
He flipped! At one point during his tantrum, I actually contemplated NOT going because he was so pissy…when HE DID THIS TO HIMSELF! After coming home from the party, he gave me the cold shoulder and at one point said to me ‘this ain’t gonna work for me…if I cant be around your family, I dont know how we are gonna have any relationship. YOU NEED TO TELL YOUR MA THAT THINGS ARE OK BETWEEN US AND THAT I WILL BE COMING OVER TO THEIR HOUSE WITH YOU.” Needless to say I told him Im NOT gonna tell her that and this ‘problem’ is between he and them-if he wants to explain himself to them, then write an email doing so and see what happens.
He apparently wrote her…not just one email though, he wrote her THREE. According to my ma, as she didn’t show me the first email, it basically blamed me for the breakup. The next two emails were simply attempts to see if she had gotten the original email and why she didnt respond…SHE DIDNT RESPOND BECAUSE SHE WANTED NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM!!!
AFter I found out he actually DID write an email and invited my parents out to breakfast to ‘talk’, I told him my mom HAD IN FACT GOTTEN THEM, but chose not to respond cause she was ‘done’ with him. He, of course, went for the jugular over that, rudely saying ‘and did you ask her why she didn’t respond to me? All I want to do is explain myself to her and if she cant be courteous enough to respond, then what more do I do?”…
…anyone want to share their thoughts on THIS one? 😛
Babe….
yes….babe works better than ‘robsx!”….. 🙂
At the holidays the S called my parents….in May, they had told him NOT to be in contact with them again….he gave them a ‘break’….but hit at the holidays….thinking he could smooze them in then…..he couldn’t.
Mother answered the phone,without looking at caller ID and he said Mom, this is Sociopath….she hung up.
He called right back….mother didn’t answer….he left this loooong diatribe on the vm about how he knew they were there, he heard them pickup just now (duhh, first clue) and how HE has LOST ALL respect for them because they won’t talk to him….He’ll never speak to them again, they are losers and bad people…..blah,blah….(remember, they SUPPORTED HIM during my cancer and all his fucked up behaviors towards me and kids and even aided him in kidnapping my kids….)
His message went on and on…..
They do this for control…..I think in your case….it was to either control YOU…..or them….or likely, both….
If you alienated your parents for him….he wins….
If you demand your parents allow him over….he wins….
Who loses….YOU, and family…..either situation.
He coulnd’t control your mother….and he doesn’t know what to do…..so he goes to you to control your mother for him….control by proxy….YOUR the proxy.
They are not used to being ‘denied’! That’s THEIR role…the rule maker!
Good for your mother for ignoring him…..there was no reply she could have given that would have satified him….unless it was…oh, so sorry……come to dinner on Sunday with Babe…..
kissy, kissy…luvy luvy…..
I was wrong….your a fantastic dude…..and we are happy and thrilled to have you in the family!
You need to pat yourself on the back for ‘hearing’ your brothers ‘words’ and feelings about the ex!
A lot of us brushed these conversations off and let it fester in the family…..continuing to bring the S around and playing ‘fantasy’….
You got it going on Ms. Babe!!!
Thank you again, EB:
The part you wrote about where your ex said he lost all respect for your family because THEY wouldnt talk to HIM hits right on with my ex.
About 3 weeks before Thanksgiving last year, he ‘suggested’ we go to his parents for dinner ‘since Im not welcome around your family.” Ive been with MY family for 33 years at the holidays and this year was goning to be NO different. He invited me to his parents saying “my mom would like us to be here for Thanksgiving and its the least we could do considering Ive been with YOUR family the past 2 Thanksgivings.” This, however WAS HIS CHOICE, not to mention the fact that he didnt like his moms cooking AND we have gone to his families for dessert, per the agreement already made.
I told him I’d think about it, however, I was badgered so much about ‘sacraficing’ and ‘being fair to (his) parents” that I totally AVOIDED trying to make ANY accomodations for his ‘request’. I KNEW this was him ‘getting back at’ my ma for not answering him considering we ALWAYS did things with MY parents…cause he saw his parents as little more than pawns to use also.
I started the NC on November 11 so I didnt even have to ‘consider’ him this year. He, (I believe) got to eat dry turkey with not-enough stuffing and store bought pies! I, on the other hand, got to feast on HIS favorite meal at HIS favorite place for Thanksgiving…my aunts…and had turkey that was perfectly cooked, all the green bean casserol I wanted, home made desserts and home made mashed potatoes!
Sometimes I feel so bad for thinking such mean, vindictive thoughts…but those feelings only last a minute…then I begin laughing again!