Lovefraud recently heard from a woman who was concerned for her daughter. Here is her e-mail:
Currently, our daughter is married to a sociopath. He has taken us (her parents) for thousands and thousands of dollars, then turned her against us. These people victimize people and are somehow able to make themselves look like the victim. They have 2 small children.
He has completely isolated her from her family, including her sister. He completely hates me and has made me the enemy, for I started seeing through him. Do you have any idea how I can possibly reach her to make her see the pattern? This man has felonies on his record for scheming to defraud; he has cheated people all his adult life. I have found out many other disturbing things about his past that she is not aware of. I want to inform her of these things, however many people feel she won’t believe it. Like your sociopath, this one said he was in the Gulf War; he never was. Instead he went AWOL from the service. He said he had a masters degree in accounting, but he has no college degree of any sort. He’s had over 20 jobs and moved over 30 times. He is 12 years older than our daughter, has a terrible temper. We worry about her and the babies all the time.
What’s a mother to do? On the one hand, she sees knows that her daughter’s husband is toxic. On the other hand, her daughter is a grown woman making her own decisions.
Sociopathic manipulation
The woman’s daughter is being manipulated by a professional. Sociopaths gradually draw in their victims with flattery and half-truths. Then they hold on to their victims with empty promises or threats. Eventually the victims, confused by the alternating charm and rage, are emotionally off balance and doubting their own perceptions.
It happened to me. It happens to everyone snared by a sociopath.
The problem for me was that I didn’t know about sociopaths. I had no idea that it was possible for a man who consistently claimed that he loved me, to lie, cheat on me, and take my money. I had no idea such evil existed.
Friends and family
Sociopaths put a lot of energy into maintaining the charade for their victims. They don’t put the same energy into manipulating people on the periphery. Consequently, the friends and family of the victim can often see the deception when the victim doesn’t.
I think friends and family should speak up, in whatever way will get through, while maintaining a relationship with the victim. I also think friends and family should not enable the sociopath by continuing to give money or whatever else he is demanding. The sooner the supply ends, the sooner the sociopath will leave.
I suggested that the woman do her best to maintain contact with her daughter, even though the sociopath has isolated her. At some point, he will abandon her. When he does, I recommended that the woman not be judgmental toward her daughter.
I know the devastation of being victimized by a sociopath. Once I realized the truth, what I needed was not criticism, but the support of people who cared about me.
Lets also talk about the sociopaths definition of others wanting ‘control’ versus ‘setting appropriate boundaries’…
Sounds like a good topic of conversation, right?
Isn’t is weird how they turn things…..not surprising, butweird!
As with your parents….my parents set a boundary with him….DON”T CONTACT US…..
And when HE doesn’t respect their boundary, THEY are wrong….and punished with his words…..
Go figure…..
From now on…..you will have all the wonderful food you want….at the all you can eat family holiday spath free buffet!
Yeah…..don’t feel bad….those thoughts are very healing….it’s part of the process!!!!
Your ONE healthy woman!!!
YEah…..I was a control freak!
Oh, he should have thought twice about that label….I didn’t want to prove him wrong during our divore….Hehe!!!
I rose to his occasion!
FUCKER!
A-MEN EB!
I used to tell my ex “Im not the one for you to fuck with”…because, although I am a very caring and compassionate person, I also know right from wrong…and can call a spade a spade-one more thing he didn’t like.
He would say ‘you roll over and show everyone your soft underbelly, but when it comes to ME, you have NO problem putting me in my place.”
That used to strike me as odd as HE was about the only person I HAD to do that with! He would say “I just wish you would let things slide with me the way you let them slide with your family and your friends.”
He was in special education in high school… a bd classroom. It used to, sorta-tickle him?, when I would act ‘bd’ back at him ( Ive worked with behavior disordered/emotionally disturbed kids for the past 11 years)…kinda like ‘fight fire with fire.” He would say “and YOU say Im BD? YOU ARE JUST LIKE ME!”
What a fucktard!
Heispureevel:
I ‘was your daughter’ in the early years of my 28 year relationship.
Just keep at it.
Plant seeds in your daughter, about him…..
leave things laying around when she visits….notes, books etc…pertaining to Cluster B’s….
You won’t be able to force her to do anything…I caution you….
The more my family ‘bitched’about him….the more I was going to prove tothem he wasn’t what they saw….consequesntly….I didn’t see it either.
I chose to close my eyes and keep them tightly shut.
until the family accepted him…..then Ikept up my fantasy.
I think the serenity prayer will help you in this situation…
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.
I don’t suggest giving up….and by the sound of your strength…you won’t…but know the limitations and consequences of ‘shouting’ from the rooftop what your thoughts of him are.
You might have to pull away from your daughter and set your boundaries….not allowing him over, declining invites that include his company….etc….and leave it at….we just feel more comfortable this way….no further explanation….she will go defensive of him.
Cut off all loans…..do NOT help ‘them’ in any way…you won’t be able to help ‘her’ while she is in his grasp.
You must play your cards right with her…/him….
Figure out the weak points and hit em!!!
I commend your love and care for your daughter, along with the courage to explore her situation and see it for what it is!!!……in the end….my parents jumped out and went to great lengths to support the S, believe his lies and throw away all they ‘knew’ of ‘who’ I was/am….to aid his control over me! I really needed them when they abandoned me. And it’s something I can never forgive of my parents.
Good luck…..be prepared for him to ‘nail’ you in her eyes first!!!
It’ll be a tag team effort…..
Learn all you can and DON”T give up…..
Dear heispureevil,
It is difficult when your children are hooked to a psychopath, I live on my family’s farm where my family has lived since 1833, and though we are far from rich, this land is quite valuable. I have two biological sons, one a P in prison for murder, and one who was married to a P who also isolated him, and an adopted son. My P-DIL had an affair and tried to kill my son, her husband. She went to jail
Before my husband and my stepfather died, the 4 of us, includiing my egg donor (mother) set up an irrevokable trust to protect the farm from the DIL at the time and also from my P-son, who at the time, we wanted to provide a place to live but not ownership.
I suggest that you might want to consult a GOOD estate planning attorney to set up an estate plan that would protect your daughter in the event that she does break free from this man at some future date after your decease.
A lady who was a former poster here left her Psychopathic super abusive husband after 47 years of marriage and she lived in utter poverty until her death a couple of months ago.
You can leave money for your daughter in trust for her life time with any conditions you want to, and then at her death, if she never has a right to it (like she stays with him) it can go to her children, or to a charity or to anyone you designate.
Sometimes it takes DECADES for people to wise up, and in the case of women, sometimes they are quite elderly, disabled, and leaving destitute is a very bad option, and staying is even worse.
Yes, he will distance her from you as much as he can, but remember too, that he is after the money. EB’s advice is very good about not bad mouthing him. My son C was married to a P for nearly 8 years before he divorced her after a failed attempt by her BF and herself to kill him (and her going to jail) and her stealing $24,000 from my mother by fraud and deception.
I also realized something else, almost two years after the divorce, and that is that my son, C, as much as I love him, has some dysfunctional characteristics that (1) made him succeptable to being distanced from us (2) while he was unhappy in the relationship after the “honeymoon” period, he CHOSE to stay (3) his own choices about his life were not anywhere near as positive as I would have wished. (4) he has some real issues about letting Ps lead him off “down the garden path” against me, his mother, and has some deep seated anger/resentment toward me. Whether or not his anger/resentment is JUSTIFIED is not the question, it is JUST THERE, whether justified or not. I realized that recently when I caught him telling me a lie (which DEVESTATED me) and I went into a tailspin for about a month!
It is difficult to see our child involved with a P and being abused, as I watched my son C with this woman for nearly 8 years. But now that I am looking at the situation a little more rationally, I also see that HE has some “big problems” in making good choices in life. I had blamed their poverty (he is very hard working) entirely on her spend thrift ways, but I realize now, that he was as much to blame with bad spending decisions as she was.
So while it was VERY easy for me to “blame” the P-wife for all the problems of the marriage, I realize now that my own son had some problems as well. He is NOT a psychopath by any means, but he is very much guilty of making very poor decisions and for whatever reason, justified or not, he is easily influenced by Ps (his P brother and his P wife and P friends) that I am the “mother from hell”—unless he needs my help, and then I am “Mother Theresa.”
Accepting that my son C is a somewhat willing volunteer to the abuse he has received from his x-wife and from his P-brother, and that he hasn’t (at this time) learned much of a lesson from it has been very very difficult for me. I hope and pray he does realize what he has let himself in for by continuing to be an enabler to Ps, and allowing himself to be sidetracked by his anger/resentment of me (for whatever reason) and that he won’t end his life with another repeat of his past poor judgment, but who knows? We can’t fix other’s lives only our reaction to what they do. I’ve been too much an enabler myself, and I working on fixing that in MYSELF. It has been a difficult journey and I think always will be.
God bless and guide you in your journey! (((hugs)))
This is such a GREAT article and enlightening thread.
I’ve been posting about my sons and the ongoing issues with regard to my youngest.
I’ve taken some time to consider all of the excellent suggestions that I’ve read on LF, as well as those of close and wise friends. One of my friends has a psych degree, is a Survivor, and had this to say to me: the youngest boy doesn’t have a clue as to how to make a “good” decision, since he was never “allowed” to make ANY decisions. You (meaning me) as his mother can never BE his mommy, but you can be a source of hope and a source of safety. It’s going to take a long time for him to learn HOW to trust, let alone trust you (meaning me) after everything your ex and son taught him to believe. He now has to UNlearn, and your job is to just listen and guide, if he wants to talk or walk.
I am still in a good place, emotionally, with regards to my sons. The eldest is spath and lost to humanity and that’s just all there is for that. The youngest may have a chance, but HE has to take the hard path of healing under his own power. IF he reaches out, I’ll take his hand with faith and agape.
Dear Buttons, I think your choice is a wise one. YOu cannot save him from himself against his will!
This article was originally posted almost 4 years ago (by the few numbers of responses it got then, you can see how LF has grown since then!!!!) and I hope that mother’s situation has come to some resolution in the meantime.
Just like I mentioned in my post up above, though my son C was a victim of his P-wife, he also was a willing victim, and didn’t learn a lot afterwards—he has been a repeat victim of Ps, his P-brother SEVERAL times, his wife once, the TH-P once, etc. and he still doesn’t “get it” that HE is the one who has to change in order to become functional. He will again be victimized, no doubt in my mind. He refuses to accept accountability and responsibilty for his own choices.
Sure being the victim of his brother and P-father, your youngest son has a disadvantage in life but he has to WANT to be helped, and to be WILLING to do the work it takes to make progress. My son C is not willing to do that work, and I’m un-willing to do it for him AGAIN. When we do the changing for them, it doesn’t last long! LOL ROTFLMAO I finallyy got that through MY thickk head! I can’t fix anyone except ME!
Donna, I’d really like to see an article on what people can do to help those snared by a sociopath who want help. Like us. A comprehensive article that we could share with our confused friends who are innocent to the existence of spaths would be a big help.
I think this is a great idea.
From my own experience, everyone around me was more aware than I was and if anyone had told me what a SPATH was and given me a chance to run down the clues I;d have listened – carefully.
But, what they did instead was hire PI’s and get peripheral information that didn’t prive anything. I was frustrated by it and felt like they were against the person I loved and we just couldn’t come to terms with how to communicate about it.
Later, I found out that the PI;s told my family not to talk to me about what they knew. When I disscussed this with Stve Becker, he was truly amazed tht someone felt it appropriate to give that kind of advice and that my family accepted it.
There is the notion about tough love, but, I think that only works when you have the facts in front view. You can’t be tough without presenting the facts. Sometimes that does require a preofessional intervention. But, always with a recitation of facts prior to being tough.
I feel that my family members who despite their intentions, really acted in a neglectful way because they figured they were exercising tough love.
In hind sight, it turned out to be the case that if they had shared what they knew, and if they had spoken from facts and insights I could hear other than ” I don’t like him” I;d have been one hell of a lot more responsive.
So its all said and done, but my point is just like when we were talking about family court judges that other professions need to know what these people are and what the teltales are. And, that the best way to communicate about them be somewhere within reach of the family members who want to and ultimately that there be better resources easily availble to women who often don’t have money to check guys out available.
My own example is that I didn’t find out that inmate locators are free and easy to use and that if I;d known or thought of it, I’d have saved myself a great deal of distress.
I didn’t think of it. I’d love to see a links page for that kind of thing right next to all the online dating sites, just the way jewel weed always grows close to nettles…….