Lovefraud recently heard from a woman who was concerned for her daughter. Here is her e-mail:
Currently, our daughter is married to a sociopath. He has taken us (her parents) for thousands and thousands of dollars, then turned her against us. These people victimize people and are somehow able to make themselves look like the victim. They have 2 small children.
He has completely isolated her from her family, including her sister. He completely hates me and has made me the enemy, for I started seeing through him. Do you have any idea how I can possibly reach her to make her see the pattern? This man has felonies on his record for scheming to defraud; he has cheated people all his adult life. I have found out many other disturbing things about his past that she is not aware of. I want to inform her of these things, however many people feel she won’t believe it. Like your sociopath, this one said he was in the Gulf War; he never was. Instead he went AWOL from the service. He said he had a masters degree in accounting, but he has no college degree of any sort. He’s had over 20 jobs and moved over 30 times. He is 12 years older than our daughter, has a terrible temper. We worry about her and the babies all the time.
What’s a mother to do? On the one hand, she sees knows that her daughter’s husband is toxic. On the other hand, her daughter is a grown woman making her own decisions.
Sociopathic manipulation
The woman’s daughter is being manipulated by a professional. Sociopaths gradually draw in their victims with flattery and half-truths. Then they hold on to their victims with empty promises or threats. Eventually the victims, confused by the alternating charm and rage, are emotionally off balance and doubting their own perceptions.
It happened to me. It happens to everyone snared by a sociopath.
The problem for me was that I didn’t know about sociopaths. I had no idea that it was possible for a man who consistently claimed that he loved me, to lie, cheat on me, and take my money. I had no idea such evil existed.
Friends and family
Sociopaths put a lot of energy into maintaining the charade for their victims. They don’t put the same energy into manipulating people on the periphery. Consequently, the friends and family of the victim can often see the deception when the victim doesn’t.
I think friends and family should speak up, in whatever way will get through, while maintaining a relationship with the victim. I also think friends and family should not enable the sociopath by continuing to give money or whatever else he is demanding. The sooner the supply ends, the sooner the sociopath will leave.
I suggested that the woman do her best to maintain contact with her daughter, even though the sociopath has isolated her. At some point, he will abandon her. When he does, I recommended that the woman not be judgmental toward her daughter.
I know the devastation of being victimized by a sociopath. Once I realized the truth, what I needed was not criticism, but the support of people who cared about me.
Buttons:
Love the sweat game room comment…..just gotta add the carrot covered in honey.
I know you won’t be surprised if Jr decides the grass will be greener on ‘spath island’…..
I think reading this stuff will be a great insight to where jr’s head is.
also the spaths.
Your gonna need luck and patience and a whole lotta love to allow your good will to be seen and felt by jr.
Keep doing your best and keep on top of it all Buttons!!!
BTW….spaths DO have their own islands…..it’s called their lives. 🙂
EB, yah……the self-sabotage is beginning in a subtle way with Mike.
The discussion on Monday will be low-key, without threats, etc. Mike needs to define WHY he wanted to come live here, determine IF he wants to remain here, and make decisions based upon what is best for HIM.
I think, all along, I’ve kept it in the back of my head that Jr. will probably cave in and return to Spath Island, but I want to be very careful to NOT project that belief, in any way.
Mike has never known a normal level of safety. He is constantly apologizing for everything from tripping over his own feet to my own respiratory infection! He’s so full of fear and doubt that any decisions that he makes without the benefit of a counselor/therapist should be placed ON HOLD until he examines the rationale behind them.
This is going to be a long road, and I can’t fix what’s ailing this kid. I can walk alongside him, but he’s going to have to come to some ugly truths. And, he’s definitely in the middle of Stockholm Syndrome, and I don’t have ANY tools to deal with that from my end!
Oh well…..more onion/honey juice and I’m off for studio adventures! 😀
LOVE YOU GUYS AND LOVEFRAUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, I finally experienced a very serious trigger episode with Mike. I have to say that I’m not ashamed, just irritated for allowing the situation to get out of hand when I could clearly see the pothole, ahead.
Since Mike is such a talented visual artist, I gave him a “lesson” on anatomy drawing – draw the hand using contour lines, only, and hold the drawing material in a specific way to allow the freedom of movement. Mike balked and actually seemed to become hostile about this. I told him that I wasn’t criticizing his drawing technique (compelled to soothe the injured soul), but offering him a new and valuable tool to help improve his work. I asked him, “Don’t you want to improve your techniques?” This was after he had mentioned that he didn’t know enough about anatomy to better his subject matter. His answer was, “I’ll never earn a living doing this, so I don’t see the point…” I hit the roof.
My brother’s ex-wife and the ex spath had said the same (VERBATIM) thing about my creativity, beginning at age 16 with the ex-sisterinpath. With the ex spath, my creativity was constantly criticized as a waste of time – when I wanted to return to college to finish my degree, I was only “allowed” to pursue something in the medical field, and only then if my parents paid for it. Mike’s response brought back all of the miseries that the ex sisterinpath and ex spath had inflicted specifically regarding my art, and I lost it.
I threw the piece that I was working on into the reclaim bucket (I was throwing pottery, at the time), and proceeded to throw several other projects into reclaim and kept saying to Mike, “Okay! I’m not an artist, anymore, because I’m not making a good living at it. There! I’m not an artist, anymore.” My blood pressure was through the roof, and I was so hurt and furious that I left the studio before I did anything else stupid. I needed to calm myself, and it took a dammed good while.
The ex-sisterinpath often told me, “You can’t make money doing that. You need to go to secretarial school, instead.” This was while I was showing at prestigious art shows and festivals in the Tidewater, VA area at 16. No, I didn’t earn any awards, but I sure loved what I was doing and the one person that I “needed” acceptance from viciously shot me down without batting an eye.
The ex spath used art as a “reward” if I complied with his demands, and only in theory – the ex spath nearly killed my art spirit. I was “allowed” to WANT to practice my art, and the “reward” was always dangling in my face, but I never, EVER created a finished project during the entire time I was married to that farker. “I’m NOT babysitting these kids while you doodle and the house is still a wreck!”
Now, when I returned after my trigger tantrum, I sat down with Mike and told him that I would never indulge in another response in the manner that I did, and that I was very sorry for my display. I also explained that my response was MY fault – that I gave into a “trigger.” I went on to describe my feelings on being BORN an artist and having that used against me by others – I didn’t say whom, and I didn’t provide specifics. I simply said that it was tantamount to spiritual murder to deny anyone to become who, and what, they were born to be. I also told Mike that it took years for me to restore my art spirit and that I will not tolerate such remarks from him, or anyone else.
Mike was born an artist, and the ex spath couldn’t abide this – it was a constant reminder that I was involved in creating Mike. He was never encouraged to pursue his artistic creativity and it was hampered in such a way that he can’t see (YET) that creativity is imperative to progress the human quality of life – without creative minds, we’d still be scrawling lines on cave walls and wearing hides for clothing. Mike has said on numerous occasions that (quote), “There isn’t a need for creativity, anymore.”
After this lovely episode, I went on to remake some of the projects and let the drop.
Another trigger was averted, last night, when Mike mentioned that he had met a “friend” of the spath brother’s. This “friend” was a petty criminal as a minor, and only God knows what he’s evolved into, at this point. But, the premise of this was that the “friend” had been invited to “stay” with the spath brother because spath brother had been “having some trouble with some people.” This means only one thing to me – to bring someone from 4 States away to “stay” for a while was because the spath son was in some serious trouble with some bad people because of his illegal activities: dealing dope and God knows what else. I didn’t react to this trigger as much as I might have. Mike insisted that the “friend” was a really nice guy – “…a really GOOD person.” My only response was, “Yeah, he’s a great guy. Good people always plot to murder their girlfriend’s parents so they can continue having sex with their girlfriend without interference.” Mike insisted that the “friend” was a “really good” person and had probably changed. I didn’t respond to that, at all – I had to let the matter drop, entirely, even though Mike kept on about what a “nice guy” this “friend” was.
So………The whole point to this outrageously long and rambling post is this: I don’t care how far I am on my healing path, I’m still vulnerable to triggers. I don’t know if other LF site members have had the same experiences with triggers, but I am STILL vulnerable and I have to really get vigilant and attend to my boundaries. I’ve gotten slack in the past couple of weeks because I was beginning to feel a false sense of comfort – although I love Mike very much and feel for his personal experiences, I CANNOT MAKE HIS PROBLEMS INTO MY PROBLEMS!!! I must, must, MUST attend to my boundaries and get myself centered and focused. I cannot allow myself to facilitate Mike’s issues – I must take control of ME and not allow myself to take ownership of the spaths’ cruelties. BOUNDARIES, dammit………BOUNDARIES!!!!
THANK YOU LoveFraud, for the ability and safety to vent and rant.
Brightest blessings!
Buttons,
What’s good is that you’re communicating with your son (living truthfully and honestly around him), letting him know why you reacted during the experience, educating him, coming back after-the-fact and talking to him. Mike does have a long road ahead of him. I’m thinking that Mike is still acclimating to his environment, hopefully, taking off in time, figuring out what he wants for himself and “going for it,” his personal ambitions. It’s going to take time for him to get free of the brainwashing that he’s endured over the years. While Mike becomes clearer in his thinking, your son can learn what relationships are all about, people having ups-and-downs, but genuinely caring about each other, not using one another. I know it’s hard and frustrating, dealing with a young adult, but be patient – there will be a payoff in the end. Go one step at a time. I think that you’re awesome, doing what you can for the sake of your child. Peace to you.
Bluejay, thank you so much for your encouraging words. I have all the patience in the world for people, I just am so irritated with myself for having reacted so violently to those triggers! Dagnabbit!!!!
As I mentioned, I think that I had neglected my boundaries and that I might have managed the triggers much better had I been attending to them, diligently.
Mike will find his own way, I believe. It is, indeed, going to take a long, long time for him to set his feet firmly onto his own healing path – one psych friend assessed his emotional/social maturity at about 13-14, and I agree. He has to witness work ethics, committment, and emotional health before he can “want” those things for himself.
Boundaries. Yes.
Brightest blessings.
Hi Buttons,
I think we change so much during this experience, learning to deal with triggers as they come up in a NEWWAY is part of that. I had an experience recently with a woman who run’s my son’s after school care. I’ll try not go into too much detail, but the woman is a common all garden bully, who likes to lord it over poor inner city parents and kids.
She for what ever reason (and part of my healing is about learning to NOT CARE about what ever that is unless she can explain to us that we have done something wrong) doesnt want my son but cant refuse us provison. So she had me jumping through hoops. and the thing for me, having just started a new job, was that I really NEEDED her. I felt over a barrel and at her mercy. She clearly saw this and I could see she enjoyed her position.
Another aspect, that I am not sure has any play in this, is that she recently contacted me on FB out of the blue (unprofessional much) expressing how ‘astounded’ she was that I had attended the same selective school as her. She may have had me pegged as something and wasnt happy I didnt fit it? (crazy theory time!- too much thinking blue!)
Anyway.My physical tolerance for being bullied is now at zero (after spending my life so far in bully situations) but I still felt unable to deal with my feelings or her. I was furious at her I KNEW she was BSing me. But I also NEEDED her assistance. Real trigger situation for me.
There is a disconnect still, like I have no tolerance for BS whatsoever but am still not ‘allowed’ to feel angry or reject hands down being bullied. I dont know how to deal with the anger it throws up . I end up feeling hopeless, useless, fighting being apologetic to the bully!
So anyway after three attempts at clearing up the position with her (she was too busy, the computer wasnt working ect.ect.) I wrote to her boss requesting their position in writing, and it turns out that this woman has no right to refuse us provision, that there is a policy of equality and inclusion for kids with SENs they have plenty of spaces and have to take him and all her ‘not sure we have a place for your son’, ‘we need you to request a place in writing at least month before’ (with only two weeks term left)was total rubbish. A personal stance on her part that came out of who knows where.
Now she refuses to speak to me or make eye contact. She will be laughing and joking with other parents and when we walk in her face drops and she walks out of the room. She is sulking with me and my 8 year old, for going over her head.
I have no other option AT THE MOMENT but to put my son in her ‘care’.
Only one more week of it to go though.
I didnt, and am not handling it perfectly, like an ‘all healed’ person.
Dear Buttons,
After reading your post about your son, I am reminded of how wise you are. Your ability to take ownership for your actions and anger will help guide your son in the right way to own up to our feelings and behaviors. It sounds like he wants to see the good in people, this is a place we have all been, believing that unhealthy people have the same values as us and won’t try and hurt us. It will take Mike a long time to learn this lesson, I’m still learning it.
You are wise in the fact that boudaries are so important to keep in healthy relationships. Mike will see your example and hopefully learn from it. For some reasons spaths like to squelch the creative side in people. Spath has said to daughters “You should get in business, you could do your writing as a hobby.” “She is not going to art school, I won’t pay for it!” Both girls are creative and spath is a jerk about it.
You are taking the healing path Buttons, the trigger that made you angry, was because the spath tried to take away your core, your soul. Allow yourself to recognize the anger for what it is and why you have it then forgive yourself for getting angry. Spath tried to take so much from you, sometimes I wonder if we ever truely heal, we just learn to cope with the damage done. No one has the right to take what they took. It’s natural to be angry.
Mike has a long way to go, you are doing the right thing in how you are caring for him. I’m glad that you are able to vent on LF and process everything here. It really helps to have this virtual place of healing. You have been a wise counselor in my journey of dealing with a disordered person and all the crap they dish out.
Many blessings!!!
Blueskies and Hopeforjoy, thank you so much for your very encouraging words and sharing – it really is a GREAT help to know that I’m not nuts and that I am capable of forgiving myself when I lose it.
The issue of boundaries – professionally, and personally – is so important to me, now. I have always had boundary issues as most spath Survivors have, but this recent episode brought it home with exquisite clarity. If this subject comes up, again, my response must be: you may place limitations on yourself, but I have chosen to indulge my art spirit and I may be poor, but I love what I do.
It’s all about control with the spath – simple, complete control, and this I will not allow. The ex spath is dead and buried. The ex-sisterinpath is history and wallowing in whatever world she has created for herself. The spath son is enjoying the experience of constant scrutiny by Law Enforcement. I do not “have” to live in their world unless I choose to. And, damitol, I choose to live in agape, beauty, and wonder and NOT the atmosphere of suspicion, defense, and fear.
Hopeforjoy, I’m so glad to see that you’re still reading, learning, counseling, and healing. I think about you, often. 🙂
Thank you, thank you.
Brightest blessings!
I think that you can voice your opinion, but ulimately the person must see it for themselves.
http://www.womenexplode.com
Buttons, you didn’t loose. None of us on this site lost with the Spaths that consumed our lives. Complete opposite, we WON because we survived the destruction of their lies.
Peace.