Lovefraud recently heard from a woman who was concerned for her daughter. Here is her e-mail:
Currently, our daughter is married to a sociopath. He has taken us (her parents) for thousands and thousands of dollars, then turned her against us. These people victimize people and are somehow able to make themselves look like the victim. They have 2 small children.
He has completely isolated her from her family, including her sister. He completely hates me and has made me the enemy, for I started seeing through him. Do you have any idea how I can possibly reach her to make her see the pattern? This man has felonies on his record for scheming to defraud; he has cheated people all his adult life. I have found out many other disturbing things about his past that she is not aware of. I want to inform her of these things, however many people feel she won’t believe it. Like your sociopath, this one said he was in the Gulf War; he never was. Instead he went AWOL from the service. He said he had a masters degree in accounting, but he has no college degree of any sort. He’s had over 20 jobs and moved over 30 times. He is 12 years older than our daughter, has a terrible temper. We worry about her and the babies all the time.
What’s a mother to do? On the one hand, she sees knows that her daughter’s husband is toxic. On the other hand, her daughter is a grown woman making her own decisions.
Sociopathic manipulation
The woman’s daughter is being manipulated by a professional. Sociopaths gradually draw in their victims with flattery and half-truths. Then they hold on to their victims with empty promises or threats. Eventually the victims, confused by the alternating charm and rage, are emotionally off balance and doubting their own perceptions.
It happened to me. It happens to everyone snared by a sociopath.
The problem for me was that I didn’t know about sociopaths. I had no idea that it was possible for a man who consistently claimed that he loved me, to lie, cheat on me, and take my money. I had no idea such evil existed.
Friends and family
Sociopaths put a lot of energy into maintaining the charade for their victims. They don’t put the same energy into manipulating people on the periphery. Consequently, the friends and family of the victim can often see the deception when the victim doesn’t.
I think friends and family should speak up, in whatever way will get through, while maintaining a relationship with the victim. I also think friends and family should not enable the sociopath by continuing to give money or whatever else he is demanding. The sooner the supply ends, the sooner the sociopath will leave.
I suggested that the woman do her best to maintain contact with her daughter, even though the sociopath has isolated her. At some point, he will abandon her. When he does, I recommended that the woman not be judgmental toward her daughter.
I know the devastation of being victimized by a sociopath. Once I realized the truth, what I needed was not criticism, but the support of people who cared about me.
Butttons – yes:)x You said: It’s all about control with the spath ”“ simple, complete control, and this I will not allow. I am there. I wont allow. but its new to me and I havent got myself round it yet…or what to do after the ‘I WONT ALLOW IT!’…. I think its okay to keep going round and round for a bit until something more clicks in.x
And you go fight for your space to create! (your work). As far as I’m concerned, creativity is the most important thing we have as humans. It is the pure essance of humanity and the best answer to ‘why are we here?’ that I can think of. Its the key to all our progress and is f all to do with money.:)xx
blueskies,
I read your post, being disappointed in the woman who misled you about placing your child in the after school care program (where she works). Most people would be upset by her attitude, her behavior. Don’t ever apologize to her because you don’t owe her any apologies – she complicated an easy task, enrolling your son in a program, prolonging the process. She should apologize to you, but that’s not gonna happen. I hate when people are rude toward each other. Take care and try not to let her awful behavior get to you. She’s a jerk.
Definately bluejay:)x My internal reactions to this stuff, because her behaviour is so reflective of OTHER stuff….is what I really struggle with.
BUT I know…regroup. Pull on my big girl pants. keep calm and carry on.:)
Thank you for your supportive words:)x
And thanks for the opportunity of sharing.x
Buttons, I have been where you are, with my oldest son C, who was influenced and “controlled” by the P-son, and I gave C the “benefit of the doubt” and he was also naive as well, so I let a lot of his choices actually be “blamed” on the Ps —his x wife, his P bro etc. but I came to realize that most if not all of his choices were because HE CHOSE THEM FREELY not because someone else forced him into them….
Wanting to SAVE my son, and HELP him like you want to help and save Mike is my “fall back stance” in my enabling. Unfortunately, when C lied to me, he crossed the line and I WAS DEVESTATED and fell into the emotional abyss of realizing what I had not seen, glossed over, trivalized, etc. and that is HIS JUDGMENT IS POOR, his impulse control is poor, he wants to “believe the best” of BAD people and HE IS AN ADULT AND IS NOT GOING TO CHANCE until HE sees a need or has a desire to do so, and he has SO FAR REFUSED to do either of those things.
While we are FRAGILE in our healing, and even lo these many years out, I realize I am STILL FRAGILE and don’t have the bounce back ability I once had, I think taking on the “helping” role for someone else is “IFFY” at best.
Last year this time I took on a homeless victim of psychopathic relationships. She was living in a small and I mean TINY RV. I let her come here to park. That was all I gave her in the way of assistance (nothing financial in other words) but before long she was eating my life with a large spoon, EMOTIONALLY and TIME WISE. Fortunately since I really didn’t know this woman,, I kept a CLINICAL DISTANCE from her but within a couple or three months I relaized she was a psychopath DOWN ON HER LUCK and was doing her best to get me to give her money or invest time wise in some of her kooky schemes. She cried daily about how others in her cyber connections were abusing her and ya da ya da.
She of course couldn’t take a menial job, she was trying to get a job using her creative writing skills, but when she was offered some editing jobs over the internet, she never finished them. The point is that nothing I suggested was implemented, and she was not interested in doing the things she had an opportunity to do.
Eventually, I realized the mess I had let MYSELF get into, and so after consulting by telephone with a friend of mine about it all, I told the woman that “she had not used the opportunities I had made available to her to advance her situation in life” (like no job, etc) and that therefore I thought it best that she move on down the line to where she might be able to find a place that would benefit her. I handed her $150 in case she didn’t have gas money to go somewhere she could safely park (never got a thank you) and in fact she began instantly berating me for ABUSING her! Refusing her needed medical care, dental care, and on and on. I pointed out that I had offered to take her to the free dental and medical clinics and she had declined to go, of course she turned that back to my fault that she didn’t go. It was an eye opener when I stood there and OBSERVED without emotion how a psychopath functions, and I realized I didn’t feel any empathy for her, because I KNEW THE TRUTH—but I also realized that my lack of empathy for her must be the way the psychopath feels when we beg and plead for them to stop hurting us. She was doing her best to get me to feel sorry for her, and SHE WAS HURTING because she had just lost her SUPPLY and she didn’t know where the next supply was comiing from.
I realize your motives to help Mike are PURE and unselfish, but Buttons, it will take a GREAT DEAL of energy that you may not really have no matter how much you WANT to help, or how much you FEEL FOR him.
At this point you are feeling that Mike is a VICTIM and that his father and P brother have used him (and they most likely have) but it doesn’t mean that he has not been a volunteer or that HE SEES A NEED to change his opinions, or thoughts, or choices. The woman who came to my farm had a CHOICE in how she continued to run her life, but she chose to remain in the same RUT she had always been in, even though she was not a “winning” psychopath, in fact she was a VICTIM of HERSELF.
I know what I am saying may not be what you want to hear Buttons. I kept on hoping too that I could help that woman, and that I could help my son C….and in both cases, I wasn’t able to accomplish either—because I can’t fix someone else and I am too fragile to keep on trying and not damage myself in the process. My OBLIGATION is to ME—and I have to concentrate my limited resources, energy and time on taking care of me FIRST. ((((Hugs))))) and my empathy and my prayers. And my tears as well because I know from whence your feelings come. (((hugs again!))))
Dear Oxy,
Just wanted to say hello:)x and to thank you for continuing to share what you know… whether it resonates immediately with us slow coaches or not right away, whether we are affronted or otherwise :(x I hope you are doing okay yourself.xxx
Dear Blueskies,
Yep “doing pretty good for an old broad!” That is a quote from a lady (forget her name) who was an Olympic quality horse show rider that I met once 30 years ago when she came to ride and evaluate a horse my husband had for sale. She kind of reminded me of Kathrine Hepburn in riding pants! I couldn’t wait until I got old enough to use that quote! LOL
Thanks for asking though! Life gets more peaceful the longer I am away from the psychopaths! I think that’s the key is keep away from them and keep the stress low!
Hope you are also doing well. (((Hugs)))))
OxD, thank you so very, very much for your wisdom. It makes sense and it IS what I need to read. If Mike is still a victim, it’s by his choice. I agree that defining him as a victim does NO good – it’s a label, and a convenient excuse. Time to pony up, Mike – time to get down to the business of growing the heck up.
Mike has to heal himself – I can’t (AND, WON’T) take that responsibility on. I’m not responsible for his current “condition,” and I don’t ever want that kind of power.
Today, we engaged in a discussion about interpretation – he chose to misinterpret something I said which gave him an “excuse” to fall into The Silent Treatment. He tried to defend his silence saying, “You don’t understand. When I get like that, I CAN’T speak.” Of course, I said, “Bullshit. If you’re in a bad mood, or you don’t want to talk about something, then SAY SO – I’m not walking around on eggshells because you chose to misunderstand something that I clearly stated.” Word games – twisting and mincing words – was a favorite game of the ex spath and, in turn, the spath brother. It don’t fly in Button’s house!!!!
The “bone of contention” was that he wanted “more time” to “adjust” to his new surroundings before he made appointments for dental and counseling. Bullshit. He AGREED to tend to those responsibilities, and there’s no “reason” or “excuse” to avoid them. And, that was the end of the discussion.
I’m still working on those boundary foundations and altering them as situations change. I refuse – REFUSE – to even entertain the behaviors that his spath father and spath brother do. And, I made this very clear, today. Yeah, I had my trigger reaction and I handled it poorly. Too bad – time to move on. Next time, I’ll handle it better, and the time after that, even better, and so on.
I’m with you, OxD – I think that we are forever “fragile” after enduring abuse of any kind. Every experience has to be a learning one, and I have to give myself credit for not going postal any more than I did! LOL!!
I must also guard my Self with tooth and nail. My energy belongs to ME, and if Mike isn’t interested in helping himself, then so be it. I offered him the option of returning to Virginia – his brother apparently “owns” a home (with no employment? HAH!) and has offered a “sweet game room” if Mike comes back. Throwing that option out on the table shut Mike up, mighty quick. When I asked WHY he wasn’t living with his brother, his answer was (quote), “The reasons are very, very personal.” Fine. But, he’s going to either take his emotional bull by the horns and wrestle it down, or he’s not. I can’t make him do it, and I can’t help him – only he can help himself.
When Mike is ready to put his feet on his healing path, we will be there beside him, but we’re not going to drag him out there and say, “Now, then. Walk and heal, RIGHT NOW!” LMAO!!!! And, as per his agreement, he will go to counseling whether he engages in it, or not. He can sit there and pick his nose for 40 minutes, but he’s still going to live up to his agreement. First lesson for Mike: YOUR WORD IS YOUR BOND.
Grrrrrr………tomorrow is going to be a productive day for me! 😀
Thanks, again, OxD – and, everyone else who offered their sound suggestions and encouragement. This, too, shall pass.
Brightest blessings!
Dear Buttons,
Yea, It sounds like the “the reasons are very personal” means that for whatever reason Brother isn’t falling for his manipulating. LOL
A couple of years ago some “friends” of mine who, frankly, had been mooching off me for years and off others as well, I let move out here in their RV and park on my land as well…but ended up about 8 months later having to tell them to leave too because they had decided that somehow THEIR NAME got on the DEED to this place and some how I was theirs to boss around—WRONG!!! Well, it had worked in the past so Ii can’t fault them for trying really! But the good part is that I LEARNED THROUGH them just like I did wsith the homeless woman, to SET BOUNDARIES and quit letting them walk over me. I insisted that they KEEP THEIR WORD, BE RESPONSIBLE and so on.
Mike is just testing the waters to see what he can get over with you. One of the things I did with my sons as teenagers was to have WRITTEN agreements, very SPECIFIC, signed by both parties. Re-negotiable monthly. And BTW it was NOT a “democracy” it was a DICTATORSHIP—I had the final vote on anything. MY HOUSE, MY RULES. I was willing to LISTEN but not allow someone to walk over me. I should have kept that up as they got older!!!!! LOL But we live and learn.
You might also point out to Mike that he is an adult and that you really love him but if he isn’t happy with the way things are at your house, you will help him carry his bags to his taxi! LOL
Dear Buttons,
It sounds like you are doing everything right in your communication with Mike. He knows that his decisions are his alone, if he choses not to schedule appointments, he still made a choice.
I have struggled with boundaries with my 23 yr old daughter. She has been a procrastinator with scheduling appointments and following up on her responsibilities. I realize we all make mistakes but I had to quit enabling her lifestyle. She asked me for a loan (she does have a job), to get out of debt and pay off her college loan. I will not co-sign a loan when she doesn’t manage her money very well. She has to learn these lessons herself. She likes to eat out and will buy things she doesn’t really need. Her apartment was too expensive and she wanted me to make up the difference. The old me might have tried to bail her out, not the new me. No way.
You have let Mike know that you care about him and are giving him the tools to take control of his own life, I hope he rises to the occasion. It’s frustrating to see them mess things up but they have to make their own mistakes. It might take him a little longer to get it together and a counselor will definitely help him get on the right path.
Glad to read your posts! Its nice to know you are out there. Hope you are making some great pottery!
After reading up on the “rules” article, I’m almost giggling through the morning. Mike has been taught and has learned that “rules” are for other people. Well, this old broad is finally getting the picture – and, he’s going to have to make his mistakes (which, oh-by-the-way, we encourage) and learn from them….or NOT.
BUT, the one thing that Mike is going to learn the hard way is that keeping one’s word is demanded in my home. If I say I’m going to do something, I will do it or have a very good reason for why I didn’t. REASON is not the same as EXCUSE. And, as it stands, Mike has no excuses and no reasons, either, for not attending to his responsibilities.
This is going to be a long, long, irritating side-trip. This is the first time in his life that Mike will ever be held accountable. It’s a new hurdle for him to overcome, but he’ll get there in the end, even if it takes a good, long while.
Thanks so much for your support, gals. It is so helpful to me!
Brightest blessings!!!