While there are no sure-proof ways to avoid exploitive partners (short of entering the monastery), we can reduce our risk of getting too deeply involved with them. Why do I say too deeply? Because if getting involved with an exploiter at all isn’t bad enough, getting in too deeply is the disaster we hope to avoid.
One of the best (and most under-utilized) strategies to protect yourself is to properly“vet” your prospective (or new) partner. What I have to say ahead is especially applicable if you’ve been burned by a sociopath previously, and even moreso if you suspect in yourself a tendency to enter relationships with bad-news characters.
What do I mean by “vetting” your partner? I mean, of course, getting to know him as thoroughly as possible before deepening your investment in him. But here’s the rub: it’s the getting to know him through others.
By others I mean his friends, family, relatives and, indeed, anyone in his social orbit from whom you stand a chance to learn, or confirm, something meaningful about him.
And so while we can agree that no strategy alone guarantees protection against exploitation, I’d propose that vetting your partner intelligently increases your protection, and is much wiser than depending exlusively on him (especially if he’s exploitive) to furnish a candid history of himself.
In other words, your partner’s history of himself will be much less informative than, and dangerously incomplete without, others’ complementary history of him.
How exactly do you vet a prospective partner? It’s true you could take any number of draconian measures—like hiring a team of private investigators—to assist you in the process and, indeed, there may be circumstances where you feel this is necessary.
However, I’m going to restrict myself in this discussion to vetting strategies that might be described as “natural—”meaning, you have access to them in the natural course of your evolving relationship.
And it begins with several absolutes: for instance, you absolutely must meet his family. You must meet his friends. And if he has kids, you must meet them, too.
Really, your aim to meet anyone and everyone in his life from whom it’s feasible to derive, piece by piece, a more complete, validating (or invalidating) profile of him.
If he has no family with whom he’s in contact, and no friends, or, if he has them but discourages you from meeting them, or, worse, is unwilling to let you meet them, well then”¦Houston, we have a problem.
If his parents are in fact deceased (and he hasn’t killed them), there’s nothing doing there. But what about his siblings? And other relatives? And, I repeat, his kids (whether younger or older)? And vitally, his friends!?
My point is that it’s on you to ensure that you neither confine yourself, nor let him confine you, into discovering him within an informational vacuum. I can’t stress this point enough: you absolutely must not allow yourself to be confined, in your discovery of who he is, within an informational vacuum.
Translation, and again at the risk of repeating myself: sooner than later, you’ll want to meet as many people as possible in his life, past and present, who, collectively, can shed light on who your partner is.
Then, if he stonewalls you; if in anyway he restricts or censors your access to feeback through the human beings who’ve comprised, and comprise, his social network, well then”¦I repeat, Houston, we’ve got a very serious problem.
And so, for instance if, in your efforts to move the vetting process forward at a natural, efficient pace, he strings you along and is saying, week after week, I’ll introduce you to my family, just not quite yet, baby”¦I’ll know when the time’s right, trust me”¦.this portends disaster.
Similarly, if he says, ostensibly to protect you, “Trust me, baby, you don’t want to meet my family. They’re a bunch of lunatics,” trust me: you’ll want to meet them. He may be right—they may be lunatics, but you’ll want to meet them to assess the risk that he’s one, too.
Because when his brother Billy Bob, who’s had a few too many pops, tells you on an unscheduled tour of the family property, “Phil tell you how me and him used to set them cats on fire and watch ’em burn to a crisp? Damn, them was the good old days,” this feedback just might not square with Phil’s having told you what an animal lover he was as a kid?
In other words, even dysfunctional, unhinged family and friends can cough up really IMPORTANT information.
Like this, from his mentally challenged, but not necessarily delusional, sister, Crystal: “Good luck with Harold. You seem nice, honey. Maybe now he’s got a girlfriend, he’ll keep his hands off me.”
Okaaay, Crystal”¦thanks for the blessing.
And please, if he has no longterm friendships, do yourself a favor: Don’t rationalize this. Ask yourself, say, hmmm”¦why?
Why does this 40-year-old man have no longterm friendships? What could explain the fact that he has no contact with anyone from his past? (Incidentally, “They’re dead to me,” isn’t a reassuring explanation, especially when a lot of people, it seems, are dead to him.)
It’s probably unncessary to get mired down in defining precisely how far back you’ll want to mine his past? Maybe it’s unnecessary to go all the way back to elementary school? Or even junior high? But what about high school? College? Old colleagues? Cousins? Hell, even old prison buddies (sorry, I know that’s not funny).
Speaking of prison, here’s a concept I ask you to entertain: if you should happen to establish, through your due diligence, that your Romeo has a prison record, how can I say this diplomatically? Remember the books See Dick RUN! See Jane RUN!
Well this circumstance—a prison history—dictates that, just like Dick and Jane, you run! Because it’s amazing what a good, smart, well-timed flight can protect you from!!
Back to the longterm friendship matter: If, in the course of the vetting process, you discover that, alas, your new partner has, indeed, maintained friendships since childhood, or made and maintained solid friendships as an adult, this is a good, positive sign. Is it certification of his integrity and authenticity? Of course not. But it belongs in the plus column of your assessment. It’s the kind of discovery, among others, you’re glad to make.
Let’s say your new partner’s alleged best friend and, for that matter, all his important “peeps,” allegedly live scattered across the country, thereby, he laments, complicating your opportunities to meet them face to face. What now?
Well, where geography deters you from breaking bread with them in person, technology to the rescue! Use skype! Talk to them, see them, interact with them on the computer! At the very least, talk to them on the phone!
There are plenty of feasible ways, in other words, in this technology-enabling world, to connect with those in his life whose geographical situations make for impractical face to face meetings. And so, if he keeps you at arms’ length from them, he’s telling you something very ominous that you need to heed carefully and proactively.
Let me stress: you aren’t just evaluating the dish you get on him from those who’ve known, and know, him (ostensibly) best; you are also evaluating the dishers! You are evaluating the evaluators!
Who are those who comprise his social network? What are their values? What’s their integrity level, as best your instincts tell you? Do they strike you as—even if not admirable in their own right—credible character references?
The answers to these questions matter a lot. It may be nice that Don, his best buddy since third grade, swears on his own family’s life that your boyfriend’s character and integrity are beyond reproach. But if Don’s done time for armed robbery, the credibility of his glowing reference suffers.
You are also evaluating how your new partner relates within his social circle. Does he maintain his “integrity” around them? Does he treat you with a consistent level of attentiveness and respect regardless of the audience? Conversely, does he become a different person around different people, revealing unexpected, disarming sides of himself?
Again, please remember: The vetting process I’m suggesting needn’t be, or seem, formal or contrived; rather, it should be entirely unforced, entirely natural. And your new partner should enable this process by welcoming you into the lives of those with whom he’s shared, and shares, his life!
If he doesn’t make this process natural and seamless—if he filibusters or stonewalls you—this is, I repeat, a serious problem.
What are you looking for in all of this? You are looking to confirm that, by and large, others’ history and experience of him line up with yours! Because if they don’t align, that’s a fatal sign. (Yes, I’m channeling my inner Johnny Cochrane!) If they don’t align, that’s a fatal sign.
So what do you with reasonably unfettered access to these valuable, potential Judas figures in his life? At the risk of overkill, you listen to them, listen to their stories of him. As we’ve established, they will tell you stories. And if they don’t tell you stories, you can ask for stories. And when he says, glowering at his buddy, “Let’s not go there, Al,” you know that’s a place you want to go.
And when he says, even more sinisterly, “I’m not f’ing kidding, Al. Let’s not go there,” you know that’s exactly one of the many places you may need to go.
Sometime the stories aren’t verbalized, they’re just implicit; and sometimes the stories come in the form of questions, like, why doesn’t Tom have relationships with any of his kids?
Listen for the excuses and heed their meanings. Their mother poisoned them against me. Even worse, their mothers poisoned them against me.
In other words, if he’s been married more than once, and hates all his ex’s, and all his ex’s hate him, and all his kids hate him, then 2+2 doesn’t equal he, poor guy, has been repeatedly victimized.
Beware of the partner who’s a lousy parent. While it’s not a guarantee he’ll be a lousy partner, it’s a warning that the same self-centeredness that corrupted his relationships with his kids will surface in his relationship with you.
More generally, beware of the partner who has a history of discarding others in his life. You want to assess this history very carefully, because this is a history that will repeat itself, you can be quite sure of that.
You may be the passion flavor of the month, or year, even five years, but when the edge of his passion fades, watch out. He will cast you off as he’s cast off the sundry others in his life, perhaps even his kids from an earlier first marriage.
Do not be fooled for one second into believing that you are who he’s been looking for all his life. He may delude himself, again and again, with this fantasy, but it’s your obligation to yourself not to collude in this delusion.
(I thank Lovefraud poster Silvermoon, who, while she may or may not subcribe to my ideas, sparked my thinking for this article with her extremely stimulating feedback. As always, my use of male gender pronouns in this article was for convenience’s sake, and not to suggest that females are exempted from the attitudes and behaviors discussed. This article is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
I consulted an atty who charged $350/hour–that was last year. He is a friggin BARACUDA. He advised me as part of the initial consult fee that to keep H out of the house I had to FILE for divorce, and file motions for sole possession of house bec. judge would support status quo, and when I was freaking out about his moving in, he responded promptly that it was legal for me to change the locks once I’ve filed divorce pepers.
I was a real warrior–changed the garage door remote combination, out there with a ladder and screwdriver, hired a locksmith, and I felt secure in my little castle. That lawyer HELPED me do that. He was brisk, CRYSTAL clear.
He is in another town a little far from the court where I filed, and the cost was really prohibitive. I don’t have that much saved, and he insisted he wants to get paid as he goes, not to incur debt and be paid later. I just couldn’t afford him.
I told my lawyere H wanted to hire an aggressive lawyer (he didn’t), and that HE is aggressive too. Lawyere said, he didn’t SEEM aggressive bec. when he shook his hand it felt limp like fish. That was a clue to me that my lawyer does not know and does not get that my husband is conniving and put on a fake front, but that he is capable of being nasty, aggressive, deceptive.
Do I TELL HIM all this? Will I sound insane?
The mediator the two of us used last summer, gave me a few names of GOOD attys she has seen at work. The guy I picked works for a firm. He can walk across the street to the courthouse. He is one of the family masters in this court, so he has the experience with all the judges, has the experience in the process, and is well known. In my initial consult I felt confident that he listened to me and was competent to protect my interests.
He prepared the proposal and advised me to ask for alimony, and advised me that I cold ask for more thatn 50/50 on the house equity if I felt unequal contributuion to breakdown of marriage.
At court, he offered to talk to my husband three of us, on my dime, to see where there’s agreement on the proposal. I think that’s reasonable since we’ll have to talk anyway, the only problem is that I knew that what my husband said then didn’t matter as he can and will change his mind on a dime later.
When H’s lawyer called my lawyer to object about my tax filing, he called immediately to caution me not to act unilaterally–which is good, except he was wrong about my right to file as head of household–and all the back and forth on that was a moot point, and a waste of my money over doing what was LEGAL and I had a right to do. I am ok with it bec. he was trying to protect me from looking bad in the divorce case.
The minute you start to question your attorney or his motives…..without any clear clarification….
CHANGE ATTORNY.
This is a hard weight……talk about questioning yourself….I went through 2 months of DOUBTING my attorny…..until I switched…..and THANK GOD I DID!!!
My former attorney told me…..’he got it’…..
Then in our first hearing, he spoke 10 words….and allowed spaths and his attorney to throw accusations around wasting most of the hour…..He didn’t bring up ANY of what we discussed…..in court….LIKE ME GETTING REIMZBURSED FOR MTG or INS…..
Or him ransacking my condo….and my bill for setting it right…..OR him voilating the financial restraining order and removing things from my condo etc…..
THEN HAD THE AUDACITY IN THE LOBBY TO YELL AT ME….
LOOK we got 99% of what we wanted……
Don’t know what HE was seeing….but I needed funding…..to pay the bills…..
YES….I got posession of both properties…..BUT I HAD TO FOOT THE BILL TO FURNISH WHAT WAS MISSING and ordered to SPLIT the proceeds from the rental….
OOOHHHHH NO……
AND BE SICK/TREATMENTS at the same time>>>>>>>
NOT!!!!!
That’s when I dug deep and hard. Learned how to be a sociopath and fought like one…..
Realized I didn’t have to take ALL attornies words…..it was just ADVICE….not the law…..and started driving my own case……thought about representing myself…..then found my last attorney…..
I learned that what you pay an attorney by thehour is just a marketing tool for them……whether it’s $250 or 350 or $500 hourly…..your cheap guy will cost you the same as your $500 hourly guy…they have ways of padding bills, billing for time that can ‘fly’ if ever questioned (usual and customary)…..
and if they don’t have a large client base….they charge less to attract clients…..we think we are getting a ‘good deal’…..
NOT SO!
(at least as far as their published rates go)….
The work attorneys do is subjective…..and consequently their billing is subjective also!
Attornies want to be paid….when the bills go out….
This is why they require a retainer….they bill against it…..plan for it to run out towards the end…..and if you don’t pay….as your case is near and they know your ready to have it over and done with…..they QUIT….or threaten to quit…
This is very effective collection strategy’s.
NONE of us wants our attornies to quit on us towards the end…..due to non payment……SO WE PAY.
When we do hire NEW attornies…..you start from scratch….paying an attornie to ‘catch up to speed’…..THEN plan his strategy……..IT IS COSTLY…..
But it depends on what your looking at gettting at the end result……it may (as in my case) pay for itself.
10 fold!
With my former attorney…..he would NOT fight for both properties……made that clear as a bell! I had a right to one…It was mine…..
So why can’t I take the other…..he didn’t pay, I’ll take it in leu of….alimony and back owed payments of all bills I paid…..FOR HIM.
This guy wanted to go easy……split everything 50-50….
But spaths conduct wasn’t 50-50….or 60-30…..it was 0-100% ME.
So…..at least present this to the judge…..
He wouldn’t…..I bitched and bitched…..until his secretary said…..EB….This is NOT a chess game…..We just want to get YOU divorced……sever ties with spath.
HUGE STATEMENT!!!!
YES….IT IS A CHESS GAME!!!!!!
And yes I do want to be divorced……but not at a cost where I can’t recover……
SO……I do know….one day I will be divorced….
And I am not in such a hurry to throw the business end of it out the window…..
If that was the case, I wouldn’t have hired YOU, I would have just walked away, filed uncontested and given him everything….
Attornys’ also have ‘reputations’ in court/and the law community that they hold dear….and quite honestly their reputations ARE important.
So…..attornys are hesitent to be viewed representing an unruley client if THAT IS NOT THIER REPUTATION.
Some have reputations of being a settler and will do the dance (to collect cleient fees) and the end resutl is the same….
Some have reputations of fighting for their client…..
Some have conflictual reputaions….like when you speak their name….eyes roll…..Oh, them….thats standard for her….
Some will do harsh discovery,
Some will not give a rats ass and take the clients info verbatum.
Some won’t fight for kids…..some see the urgency of kids in danger.
Some hire the big guns…..PI’s, forensics, etc……
Some dont’ want to be involved in that tactic.
It’s like finding a mate….you need a good FIT for your case.
All divorces are different…..
Take your newly learned skills into all arenas of your life…..
IF IT DON”T FEEL RIGHT……IT”S NOT!!!!
Just the fact that his attorney even put in her counterproposal nonsense about his being “very very concerned about his employment” and that she put in that “your client at least consider a month of therapy and that he is learning new anxiety mgmt. skills in his therapy” is total waste of my lawyer’s time and my money.
But my lawyer only sent it to me and asked to discuss. He didn’t say yes or no to any (ridiculous) items in the letter.
So I feel that I need to talk to him in person, not on phone.
I have never done this so I just DON’T KNOW how to proceed, what chess strategy to use, WHAT exactly I want my lawyer to DO.
I want to protect two key assets, and make sure I get what is legally mine, i.e. half of his assets, but first I want to FIND what they are. Is that where I need his expertise in using PIs? Is that when I tell him I don’t want to settle with a collaborative lawyer since I know he’ll play dirty? That I want to go straight to discovery and no “four way touchy feely let’s collaborate negotiation” where he can lie and cloud the waters and manipulate?
See, my lawyer has no clue how to divide a teacher pension. You need some kind of QDRO to correctly assess that, and specialist must do that. That costs money, and I just don’t want that asset on the table at all, period. But he can insist that he has a right to half of it and pursue it. What then??? Is that when you need a buldog lawyer to just say no?
I don’t know HOW to fight!! This is horrible.
how long did you work aS A TEACHER BEFORE YOU MARRIED?
No, you refuse to settle without a legimate discovery
Then GET WORKING ON FINDING WHAT HE HAS
I was out of college, penniless, from a country with weaker courrency when I married.
He had worked probably 15 yrs, was 13 yrs older. He supported my MA teaching degree while I worked temp jobs and part time teaching for 6 yrs till I got my first full time teaching job.
Daughter born five yrs after we married. I worked part time as a teacher for a year and a half, then began full time work and put her in daycare.
Honest injun I ain’t got a clue where and how to get working on finding what he has. I see some small dividents reported on tax returns, but then they disappear off the next return. I can find out what they were from, and what happened to those accts. when they weren’t reported.
There was a time when he was fired, and I wasn’t working, and the baby was born, when we went through quite a bit of savings till we both got jobs again. But I just don’t know even then how much he had in retirement accts. that couldn’t be touched w/o penalty, but I had nothing.
🙁 I feel so foolish not to know more. How can even a lawyer help me if I can’t point him in any direction?
Do you think his hiring a collaborative lawyer that does not do litigation is on purpose to avoid discovery?
I do.
Dear Dancing warrior,
If he “put you through school” he may (depending on state) may actually be allowed to get part or half of your pension, because just like a wife putting her husband through med school is entitled to part of his business as she invested in his career.
Contact the IRS and get copies of your joint income tax returns and it should have listed on it the various investments he has/had on there for loses or gains. GEt copies (if you doon’t have them) for the entire time you have been married.
Get copies of any joint bank statements or accounts.
Get your lawyer to send out “discovery’ interragatories where he asks questions of your husband to answer under penalty of perjury (he must not lie or go to jail)
Questions like:
List as the bank accounts, names numbers and vlaue
List all stocks, bonds, etc etc.
What assets have you sold or bought since XXXX date?
How much cash do you have? etc.
The lawyer should have a set he can just print out standard form and send. You will also have to answer the same questons.
Call your mortgage company and get the amount of loan owed on your home, what the payments are etc. Amount of insurnace etc. and approximate value of your house (you may have to hire an appriaiser for that). The way the economy is today you may actually owe more on the house than it is worth.
All of these things are very complex financial things. The more of them YOU can do and round up the cheaper it will be to get the expert stuff done as you have done the LEG work.
Get copies of any credit card and phone bills for you and/or your husband. What is owed. Cancel any JOINT CCs.
Keep copies of all receipts for FOOD, fuel, car, kids clothes, medical and any other expense.
If you have life insurance change the payee to someone who can be trusted to keep it safe for your kids. Do the same with your retirement account, any 401K and any bank accounts you have. ONLY in your name cancel all joint accounts.
Do as much of this leg work for yourself as you can it is much better for you to go to your accountant and attorney KNOWING what is yours, joint stuff and as much of his as you can garner. Be organized.
Make a simple will, leaving whatever assets are yours to your kids IN TRUST with some person beisdes your X having control over the funds. Name someone else executor (to do the paper work after you were dead) ALSO name someone you trust as a POWER OF ATTORNEY to take care of your finances and business if something should happen to you before the divorce is final. AND a MEDICAL POWER OF ATTORNEY so that your husband is not the one that decides if you are on life support or not!
Make sure your children will have money for college etc. by having instructions on how you want this money that is yours spent in case you are not there to control it. That way your H cannot steal it from your kids to “invest” in some scheme so he can get it away from them. Make sure your will says that in the event one of them dies the money goes to the other, and in the event both die before they reach the age at which they get all the rest of the money, that it goes to someone else, otherwise if they have no will it would go to your H as their nearest relative. There are lots of legal details and you will need to take care of all of them.
Sit down and list them and check them off one by one. Be organized. and don’t get over whelmed! (((Hugs)))))
Dear OxDrover,
I appreciate your time to list the responsibilities and take control of the big job ahead of me.
Please humor me as I go through things I DO have under control, and things I still need to do. This will help me get a perspective and hopefully feel more that I can conquer this.
1. No joint cc’s. I took him off my cc as soon as we separated.
2. No joint debts. I put all the child support money he gave me early in separation to pay off the debt. At that point I was hopeful that we’d reconcile, and just wanted control over debt.
3. We had a home equity loan with no $ borrowed from it, but somehow he got it only in HIS name when banks changed, and I didn’t know. So when I called them to close it, they would not talk to me, but I begged and begged him to close it and eventually he did, early in separation. CHECK! woohoo
3. I know what the mortgage is, and I’ve been paying it automatically out of my checking for all of separation and even long before we separated. I know how much equity is left, and I know that I would qualify to get another mortgage so I could buy his share of equity, and also I know that I can afford the new extra mortgage payment.
4. I had two real estate agents informally appraise the house and I got an appraisal email from one of them, and I compared it agaisnt similar size homes in town that have recently sold, and it’s the same value. I am pretty sure it’s accurate, despite the home improvements we’ve put in. Mostly based on square footage and amount of yard, number of BR’s.
5. I don’t keep receipts of stuff I buy bec. I can see the list right on the cc statement as I pay everything w/cc. I have been too frugal on food shopping though. Realistically I should spend more on food, but my mom was helping and bringing me food, so I didn’t need to shop and bill went down. I better adjust that now.
6. I’ll check the worth of my car on Keelly blue book, but I’m sure it’s pennies as it’s a ’96 year car. Works fine, but high mileage.
7. I only know of two banks that he has accounts in–one where he works, and another where he’s had this IRA for a while. I know his dad gifted him some treasury bonds from a note I have, but don’t know if that’s marital property.
8. I have to change the will but I thought I can’t make changes till after divorce due to automatic court orders that make all stay the same. No life insurance other than the anything that is given through work.
BTW about putting through school–yes, I guess like wife helping husb. through med school… Only my cost was modest, it was a year program, and it was a cheap state school, and he insisted I register right away bec. he wanted me to start working asap so he could have a 2nd income and buy a house asap-though all this was over my head and too hard all at once as soon as I came to new country. Not that this would matter, but… I also worked always part time and he took all the money from my earnings. I did not sit home eating bon bons while he worked his butt off.
THings to do–
1. call IRS and get yrs of return copies
2. go through my cc statements last few months and carefully see my expenses for the financial affidavit–And check it against the DRAFT affidavit I gave my lawyer from the mediator two of us used last summer when we bickered over his not paying c.s. His lawyer made a NEW c.s. amount, lower than what he is paying, and I have to object and justify my expenses.
3. We have no joint accounts/cc’s so I can’t have any statements. Interestingly, there aren’t any in the house since he moved out, and I didn’t even know that or if he took them!
Not a single bank account statement with his name in the house. Intersting.
4. Arrange power of attorney and will asap just in case.
Oxy thanks for lists.
Thanks for listening to my worries too. I’ll get a handle of it. I got Suzi Orman’s book when I got separated to learn how to do money. That’s when I opened my own savings. That’s when I went and started a new kind of annuity savings. And did the other closing of joint accts thanks to her book. Yay Suzi.
Dear Dancing Warrior,
Dear you have things going along pretty well, I think you are a smart cookie!
I THINK YOU CAN make a new will though, as it about ONLY your property, I think you can check with your lawyer on this one but I think that one is pretty straight forward.
I know when I was going through all this stuff (family business stuff) while all the chaos was going on I was BONZO crazy! There were so many obvious things I didn’t even think about. I’ve always been pretty good at business and money management (my egg donor was a CPA) but when all the chaos is going around your head it is hard to concentrate on “draining the swamp when alligators are eating your butt!”
Feel free to whine or rant or vent here or just SCREAM sometimes! Either EB or I or someone else will be here to tell you “there there, poor baby, it is going to be okay! ” LOL Seriously though, sometimes it is just nice to be able to let it all hang out! Glad you got that book it’s a good one! I’m a book-a-holic but there are a lot worse things to be! (((hugs)))) and good night!
Hey guys, just got this e-mail from him. What is this?
“The last 2 yrs have felt like 10, the attornies have our lives in their hands and i’m sick…I want to discuss an option with you and you alone. You can reject it but I hope you will hear me out.”
I feel as though I am paranoid in reacting so strongly to his overtures–my heart pounds, and my breathing gets shallow, I have a kind of mini panic attack, and I wonder am I just paranoid and overreacting? The guy is just desperately wanting to tell me he’s scared or helpless…I don’t know what, why can’t I calmly hear him and respond?