By | July 20, 2012 49 Comments

How to get a degree in psychopathy

Sara Strudwick, author of Dark Souls, lays out a step-by-step plan for learning about psychopaths. Read:

How to get a degree in psychology and psychopaths (the hard way!), on

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DONNA, Oh………gawd, what a SUPERB link you have posted!!!

Let me just say that I feel that my multiple degrees are about as useful as a fart in a windstorm. The reading was superb, truthful, and (in a gallows sense) somewhat humorous. But, so very, very true at the core.

Thank you!!!!


Excellent book!!!!!
I suggest everyone reads the book.

Thank you Donna.


Ox Drover

I think many of us here have PhDs in psychopathy, the hard way. I don’t think there really is an “easy” way to get the knowledge. Maybe Bob Hare did, but he had to spend a lot of time with psychopaths to get a degree too.

Good read and good laugh!


OxD, very spot-on. Unless someone has actually experienced it, they can’t “speak” from any frame of reference.

So, this might crack EVERYONE up, just a bit. This g/f has got the stereo turned up to 55 decibels while she’s working on pre-school signage for her classroom, right? The song that is playing, right now, is titled “Hey, you’re a crazy B*tch, but you Fark so good…” ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!?? LMAOLMAOLMAO


Well I have 3 gold stars and 1 bozo button.


What you got to do to get the bozo button?

I don’t even have one of those.



dupes just look under your chair, you will find it.


I am sorry, hens, there is nothing there.


kim frederick

I don’t have a chair, but I looked under my bed, and loe and behold, I found a bozo button, It’s kind of like an Easter egg. I think the bozo bunny left it. I can’t make egg salad out of it, but it does signify a new beginning.

I found mine! It looks like a dust bunny but I’m sure it’s a prize!


kim frederick

Sky, Oh, Yessssss. IT IS A PRIZE, (not, yelling here, just being VERY seductive….it’s hard to seduce in print,,,,unless, I maybe use a lot of sibulants, let’s see….}dusssssssssssst, bunniesssssssssss are good. They are moussssssssssssssy and gray and sssssssssoft and they love you. SSSSSSSSoooooowhat’s your problem? You are aren’t ssssssssssure? I think you are too ssssssssensssssitive. Maybe, if I offered to pay for your gasssssssssslighting. Can I offer you a cog-dissssssssss?

kim frederick

I do believe, in dust bunnies, I do believe in bunnies, I do believe in dust bunnies. I do.

kim frederick

Yes, Virginia, there IS a dust bunny. Sometimes, I crack myself up. I am funnier than I know.


Into the spirits there, just a bit? Hm?

I can’t believe you guys found bozo buttons!!!!
I stayed up half the night cleaning the dust bunnies under my chair and searching for that blasted button and I think someone stole it. hahahahahahahaha

yes, I will have a nice cup of cog-diss please.
WILL you pay for my gaslighting? Don’t let “IT” hear you…
You will be targeted in a heart beat. You will get all the gaslighting you can handle….

Have a happy Sunday and thanks for the smile.



Bwahahahahahaha!!!! Dust bunnies…..I have Dust Rhinos, and they get cranky, at times.

Can dust bunnies be trained to sniff out sociopaths? I mean, sort of like a cadaver dog? Know what I mean? What would their treat rewards be? Oh, my….this is going to provide a day-long focus of questions with regard to the rare and elusive dust bunny…..

Lol, Kim,
I believe in dust bunnies too!

my exspath started most of his conversations with, “hey uhhh…”
Imagine that in a soft seductive voice. No sibilants, just a little attention getting device that keeps you waiting for what he’ll say next.

I cringe every time I hear that now.

You can have the rest of my cog/dis. I’m not drinking that stuff anymore. The hangover lasts too long and the next morning I’m ashamed of what I did while under the influence.

I don’t know about dust bunnies but I think dogs really CAN (used for emphasis) sniff out spaths.


Skylar, one of the most interesting things that I’ve discovered in discussion about “bad people” is that fence-sitters and those in denial will say, “But he/she loves their pet SO much!” Uh…, they don’t. Their pets are just as much tools as anything else.

The exspath used to say how one of our dogs could detect “bad people.” Then, he would go on about how much he loved the family pets. When it came to their care and maintenance, he would require prodding to feed them and water them, often accusing me of “nagging.” Of course, this assertion that the dog could pick out people to be wary of was a part of his foundation for my trust: the dog “liked” him, so he wasn’t to be viewed as a threat! Bwahahahahahahaha!!!! When this prized and beloved dog was left in my care, he never once saw that food was delivered or medications provided. That’s how much he truly loved that dog: not at all.

I’m still sipping at my cog/diss cocktail, but it’s gotten bitter and I’m looking for a planter to pour it out into! LMAO!!

Oh, my….


we need to collect all the dust bunny’s and all the cog diss and pour it into a big glass and serve it to the spath population. bwahahahahaha

See how they like it!

Thanks for the smiles you guys…

lol @ Truthspeak: “spath sniffing dogs”…
I think I had one of those once in my german shepherd.
He seemed to always be a better judge of character than I was.

Oh yes, cog/diss cocktail, very bitter to the taste.
SAVE IT and we’ll collect it all and send it back to where it came from!!! – hehehe

We’ll make spath bombs with it.


you’ve hit on a red flag there. Babies and animals are like props for them. Pedophiles use the “can you help me find my puppy?” line to lure kids. I had one use it on me, a few years back, “Do you know anyone who wants a puppy?”

And just a few weeks ago, a freak in a van stopped along the side of the road I was walking on. He said, “Do you want to see my bird?” WTF? I kept walking but I got the impression he was reaching over to get something (maybe a gun?). Then a truck pulled up and stopped just ahead (the jerk was blocking the oncoming traffic, so the truck HAD (caps used for emphasis) to stop). That’s when the jerk drove off.


My cat peed all over her massage table bag when she brought it over. I shoulda known then…

Cat sniffing spaths, you gotta love em’



The first exspath was blatantly cruel, and one dog that we had, in particular, used to jump up onto HIS side of the bed and lay a muffin on HIS pillow!!! What a tell, eh?

Yeah….they sense a threat and a predator FAR quicker than I do!


My x ppath loved cats so much that he strangled them with his bare hands when he got pissed off.
He would always target his ‘minions’ pets and blame it on me. “If I hadn’t of pissed him off it wouldn’t have happened!” I have no pets so he can’t strangle them. When I noticed he was going to strangle me is when I ‘exited, stage left’…such obsession!!!! ncht, ncht, ncht….

I hear you, skylar…the world is becoming a less and less safe place to be in. It’s sad. You be SAFE!
(for empahsis)…
get yourself some pepper spray…..
That always will do the trick.
Empower yourself in some way.


[email protected] Ana and your peeing cat.
You need to buy your kitty some treats!



Skylar, predators USE (emphasis, NOT yelling) innocence to ensnare the innocent.

An instant of clarity, here – sudden, and giving me chills. The second exspath once said, “Once someone loses their innocence (in re. to pedophiles), they can never get it back.”

Seriously…I’ve got chills


Truthspeak: yes, predators do use innocence and all that is good and holy to ensnare their prey.

I always gave anyone who came to visit me, when I had my shepherd, of me putting him outside while they were visiting because he was very protective of me and not to be trusted to NOT bite if someone ‘strange’ tried to do anything to me, touch me, or raise their voice to me. He was always on guard for my welfare and safety and he had the weight and power to back it up. He was 135 lbs and one of the most polite beings I have ever known. I explicitly trusted him with my very life. Anyways, they always declined, having me put him outside. My dog would make a split, instant decision as to whether or not he liked this person. If he liked this person, he would sit by them and be pleasant. If he had ‘reservations’ about this person, he would come and sit by me and smile, gritting his teeth at the person and would never take his eyes off them until they left.

It took me a while to figure out what he was doing but from that point on, I always trusted my dog. He was amazing. I got him when he was a six week old puppy and had him 13 years and that dog was the only TRUE (emphasis, not yelling) friend I ever really had. I went no where without my dog and his muzzle on. hehehe


Dupey, I have debated upon whether or not to get another dog, and your recollections have kind of given me a good reason to consider it, once I begin putting my life back together.

Pets, in general, provide the most perfect examples of unconditional love that I’ve ever witnessed. They do not care if we are fat, too thin, ugly, beautiful, smart, stupid, blind, or diseased. They are capable of what I once aspired to: unconditional. But, they apply that love and loyalty to their instincts, which we (as humans) have all but obliterated.

Yeah…..I’ve always loved Alsatians, and you had him for 13 years?! Amazing….what a sad time it must have been when he passed….



Oh yes, pets are wonderful.
Very loyal without question.

I miss him terribly. 🙁
I always felt safe with “Bud” around….

He was very beautiful and loved children…
Always neat and clean, never messed in the house, not one time, the whole time I had him.

If he was around, NOBODY could even raise their voice to me or to a child. Didn’t like guns nor beer cans. If anyone was drinking, he was always on guard. Sometimes I thought he was smarter than people.

We always talked and spent all of our time together.
I could talk to him and I really think he understood every word I said. He would sleep during the day, while I was at work and then be up on patrol all night, while I slept. He didn’t like anyone being close to me because he thought I belonged to him and I guess I sort of did.

I would love to have another dog but I can’t where I am at. I have hopes on relocating soon, perhaps somewhere that is out in the country. It’s not fair having a big dog in the city. I already know what kind of dog I want and I already have a name picked: “YIKES” and I want one of those large headed rottwielers and a huge, spike collar. hehehe

Yes, 13 years was a long time. I always miss him.
Never even had to lock my doors with him around me.
Everyone that knew me, KNEW that you NEVER just walked in MY DOOR. hehehe

Had a certain kind of respect to it, you know?
Kind of kept the ‘slime’ down.
He loved me and I loved him.

All good dogs go to Heaven…

Happy Sunday…

still reeling

I hope everyone is doing ok. Just haven’t had it in me to post out here or even read comments. I apologize for that as I like to give and just haven’t felt giving lately. It really brings me down not to be contributory but I seem to have lost my warmth and the desire to reach out…I miss it so much.

Very scared about aging in general, death (afraid I’ll go to hell and an eternal panic attack) so there is no release/peace even from thoughts of suicide, can’t find work and trying so hard, attending classes, workshops, counseling, applying everywhere. If HP had only known how tied in I was with work, how much a part of my life, inner peace and strength they killed in me, I just know they might have allowed me to keep busting butt for them.

I just wanted to say that I’ve realized it isn’t path himself or even the fantasy I wove around him that is adding to my misery. It’s the fact that, 1. I feel so guily about the emotional affair I was having irt my husband, sitting here trading emails with path while we were having dinner and actually kind of laffing about that w/path one time. That was just mean.

I can’t blame path for it, and even though my husband can’t show any emotion and no touch or ever any compliments, he doesn’t deserve that. He doesn’t listen when I talk and def is passive-aggressive, also I’m pretty sure he thinks that to be openly affectionate or caring in front of others makes him seem less manly (pathetic). At the same time he is very generous and does show he care very much at times. Almost as confounding as path, but then I chose well, didn’t I?

2. The huge problem I’m having and maybe others are too, is that I feel even less confident, secure and good about myself since path because I know he was bull-shitting me and it has taken me this long to even begin to truly believe that his seemingly innocent and positive comments, compliments and karmaic suggestions were all just in response to what he knew I needed to hear so badly. I was so smitten (and didn’t even realize it) I can barely believe what I said and how I responded to him, as if it was not me at all. I was euphoric. I knew it wasn’t going to end well but for the first time in my life, I had decided I was just going to accept what I was given, give back and maybe have a little of what I so badly needed: good conversation, smiles and looks of love and appreciation, a good and loving friend, someone with whom to laugh and feel young.

I realize now that he meant none of the things he said or intimated and that his bad and uncaring, thoughtless behavior (that I decided to overlook because well, he was so busy, his marriage was in trouble and so was his job), was nothing but a lie. So where does this leave me? In very bad shape, guilty, ashamed for bs’ing myself and letting him see I cared and obviously no one wants an old woman to work for them so I’m really kind of on the useless list.

I feel rotten re: my daughter because I think I even try to suck love and appreciation out of her and she is kind of like her dad in that way. I suppose I was the same tho at her age. It’s all about her and I can understand that with a BF she adores and trying to find work. When I see something on TV where a daughter says her mom is def her best buddy or that even as a successful adult, she still needs her mom, etc., I feel just like the worst person in the world. I really don’t feel like a good mom. Maybe when she was little and during those years when baths were fun and we read together afterwards. But I was always afraid I’d have a panic attack or extended anxiety so I never really enjoyed being a mom.

I’m sorry to just jump in here like this…it’s such a bad time for me…I just don’t really know what to do.

Thanks for letting me vent tho. I really appreciate it.
And truly, I hope you all are doing OK.

still reeling

I know I’m just really depressed right now and seeing things in such a negative light. I’m very very afraid of being ill and suffering or seeing someone I care about in that state. This is my trigger and I hate it. I try so hard to be strong and emulate others like nurses, docs and just friends who don’t freak over illness and other things. And all it does, in the end, is make me feel weak and less confident because of the comparison!

This is the horror of anxiety disorder. It limits you, makes you feel less than, always scanning and vigilant for that next trigger, and a phony, pretending to feel together and strong when you are so sick inside you just want to die.

No books or therapists have helped me much since it started at age 21, when I had NO idea what was happening to me and neither did anyone else. Much different today but too late for me as the razor sharp hooks are too strongly embedded in my mental, physical and emotional flesh.

I want my warm feeling and triggers back, but I have lost them. I can’t conjure up those past warm spots or fuzzies.. thanks so much hp and godzilla. You’ve really helped push me into a mess.


(((still reeling)))
Take a big huge deep breath and slowly release it.
Over and over until you start to calm down. Do a little EFT TAPPING :

I can relate to everything you said and I know you feel like you are standing on the edge of a cliff, about to fall off, but you aren’t. Because even if you do, you are going to grow butterly wings and land right back in the safety zone anyways.

You need to release your guilt and you will be alright.
SPATH isn’t worth worrying about – it was YOU that was manipulated into this; am I right? So don’t beat yourself up. Just accept the fact that you were hornswoggled.

My ppath laid all the blame for every rotten thing he has ever done and/or had happened to him, on me and that just was never so. IT WAS HIM (emphasis added) all along. You need to look at things from a different perspective and remember who you are and your value and worth. You need to flick that off your shoulder and realize that you are still alive; you still have your family and you can do this.

I am doing okay for a sick person.
I finally seem to have MOST of the stalking out of my life but it does come through now and then, still. Amazing, the amount of obsession and how long that ppath obsession lives…absolutely amazing.

Hang in there still reeling..we are all going to be alright. It just takes time to sort through it all and try to make as much sense from it as we can. That is human and normal. Once I got to the end of that ‘sorting out’, I found that the only sorting out to do was inside myself because that ugliness is never going to change. “I” can only change myself and that is what I have been trying to do.

I will pray for you and send you peaceful thoughts…



I think this book was one of the most inspiring books, along with Donna’s books, that I have ever read, and which helped me on my healing journey. Someone gave it to me as a gift and the moment I got it, I began reading it and I couldn’t seem to put it down because it explained a whole different perspective to me. It, along with Donna, helped to sort of grab ahold of my feet and planted them hard on the ground over all this.

I suspect I would still be trapped in that dark hole, searching for explanation, being victim to guilt and manipulations, if I hadn’t of found an explanation for the ugliness I had been seeing and experiencing for such a very long time. Truth of the matter is: I have been stalked for the past ten years by a psychopathic stalker. That is a really hard truth to digest when you look back and can SEE the depth and degree of manipulation. That is very scarey to me. That degree of evilness I have seen.

I would highly recommend this book, as well as Donna’s books.
They are like a ‘main stay’ on this healing journey.



StillReeling, I’m so sorry to hear that you’re in the pits, right now. Have you engaged in counseling therapy? Are you confident and comfortable with your counselor?

Feelings of guilt can be overwhelming, StillReeling – they can, and I felt extreme guilt for attacking the exspath when I discovered the truths about his vile sexual activities with others. Yes, what I did was wrong. No, I cannot carry guilt on my shoulders about that event for the rest of my life. I learned this in counseling, and it would have been the only venue for me to learn something that valuable to my recovery. This site provides education, information, support, encouragement, and lively discussion, but it cannot be substituted for good, strong counseling.

Brightest comforting blessings to you


Hi Stillreeling,

bloody guilt, what a waste. And Mother’s guilt is even worse than just “normal” guilt. You are an empathic person. You care. You give. I totally agree with Dupey……know your value and your worth.

Don’t feel you can’t post because you aren’t supporting or giving to others. I’m certain that I wouldn’t want you to stay away because you feel down and therefore unable to support others!

You have helped me so many times and indeed, your most recent post helps me to see my inadequacies.

keep fighting the good fight my friend. You have so much to offer. you’re funny and warm and kind and …..fallible! Just like the rest of us.

Keep your chin up. Breathe, one step at a time.

Sending you a big, warm hug from the UK.


How about Still Standing?

Ox Drover

Still reeling,

Hon, I am hearing heavy duty clinical depression and anxiety, and I strongly suggest that you see a psychiatrist about some medication. I know you say you have tried therapists etc. but don’t give up on finding some professional help. (((hugs))))


Counseling is a wonderful suggestion!
I have been in counseling for the past four years and without it, without a person counseling me ‘who gets it’, I would be feeling so much more lost than I have been with all of this. I had not a clue as to what this ‘enigma’ was.

I just 3 months ago learned that there was hope for me and my major depression. I started taking lexapro and I wish I had of had this 20 years ago because I would not have had to live with such a major depression my entire life. I used to be a ‘non medication’ kind of person but so far so good. My system has accepted it and it has made a world of difference in my mood and life.

I will pray that you will seek some counseling too, still reeling. Don’t let the depression eat you up. Hear me?
You have to fight it back sometimes. I know. But the less attention you give the hurts, the more they dull and someday, sooner or later, they just go away.

Hang in there.
You aren’t alone.
You just aren’t.


Ox Drover

Dupey, I am glad that you are being treated for your depression. It amazes me that so many people who would NEVER think of saying “Oh, I can’t take medication for my pneumonia, I’ll just be strong and it will heal itself” are the very ones who will say “oh, I will never take medication for my major depression, I’ll just be strong and it will heal itself.”

Major Depression is a problem just like pneumonia that can be treated with medication….and it isn’t a “shame” or a “weakness” to take medication for your depression any more than it is for pneumonia.

While counseling helps you learn more effective ways to cope with making decisions and setting boundaries, etc. it is not a treatment for major depression. Counseling may help you learn ways to cope with some of the problems created by the depression, but it won’t “cure” the depression, per se.

Medication alone for the depression , however, won’t over come the effects of a life time of bad decisions, so in most cases I think that a combination of medication AND counseling is more likely to help someone who has major depression and/or anxiety issues. I’m glad that you have taken both of these steps, Dupey, and that they are helping you.

It is natural to be “depressed” or sad when someone you love dies, or when there is a major emotional loss, but if this depression isn’t improved in a reasonable period of time, or severely effects your entire life, then it is time to get some professional help.

I’ve been on both sides of the clip board and though I know it is difficult to admit that you need help, sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and reach out. I’m glad you did, Dupey, and glad you are feeling better.

while I was with the spath I tried so many SSRI’s. none of them helped. maybe they are helpful after you kick the spath to the curb, but not before.

suffering serves a purpose. it’s a sign that’s something is wrong. I wish I hadn’t thought that I was strong enough for so long. but otoh, how was I gonna learn about spaths? only when the mask comes off can we SEE (caps for emphasis) what is really happening.


OxD, I’m have no medical training, whatsoever, with the exception of what pertains to me, personally.

During the last 2 years of the first marriage, I was suffering from extreme depression. I wasn’t suicidal, per se, but I sure wished to not wake up on a daily basis. I would have cycles of highs and extreme lows, and I actually believed that I might have been BiPolar, but I was never diagnosed as such, though the “symptoms” of BiPolar Disorder were present, these symptoms coincided with the cyclical dynamics of the domestic violence and abuse. I was finally prescribed Paxil – put on 65 lb., and got my emotions on an “even keel,” so to speak. BUT, the Paxil did not alter the dynamics of the abuse, and that’s when I realized that it was the situation, not me, that was the problem. Yeah, I had “issues,” you bet I did! But, my reaction to the abuse was to fall into deep, deep depression. Once I exited that marriage, I never took another anti-depressant, since.

If no medications are required for severe depression, counseling therapy is, at the very least, an imperative, in my most humble opinion. For me, it was impossible to sort out my experiences, feelings, and reactions during this second mess. My counselor was able to put a name on what I was experiencing, give me reasons that I was so vulnerable, and provide me with priceless tools to begin the healing process. Medication can put us on an even emotional keel, but it cannot provide educated feedback or emotional assistance when situations are beyond my ability to manage.

I feel, again with no medical training, that medication should ONLY be prescribed in conjunction with counseling therapy, except in cases of extreme crisis – suicide attempts, etc.

Skylar, I’m in agreement that the “suffering” is part of learning. If everything’s just fine and dandy, then we’re just moving along and not in need of education. But, when we are in the pits of despair, we tend to do some serious “work” on ourselves, particularly when we’re provided with objective and insightful counseling from someone who “gets it.”

It’s absolutely true that, before the mask shattered, I was in the false belief that all was well – that my spouse maintained love and concern for me and my well-being. So, what was the purpose in learning anything further? That state of false contentment was actually DENIAL (caps used for EMPHASIS, only), and not contentment, whatsoever.

Here’s to another day of healing….brightest blessings

Edit: OxD, I just re-read your post and saw that you used, “per se,” too! I used it, above, and it wasn’t intended to mock. LOL!!!!! Great minds think alike? 🙂


Ox: Thanks for your wishes.
My depression wasn’t so much a lifetime of bad decisions on my behalf, but growing up in a very dysfunctional environment and then moving on to a lifetime of public service. It’s how we CHOOSE to react to these things that is the important part of all this.

We all like to think that we are strong enough to endure the traumas we have in our lives and/or witnessed. So, we bury them away and move on irregardless of the damage and hurt they cause. Because THAT is how you do things; right? You just pick up and move on, however, the traumas in our lives continue to stay with us even though we may not choose to recognize them. They affect us and our lives and any future decisions we might make. They affect our lives and how we live them.

I have spent a lifetime in public service and I have seen LOTS of ugly and horrible things. Things that I have just buried away and that depression has been with me my whole entire lifetime. From that 3 year old little girl being sexually abused, all the way up until I CHOSE to make my life something different. After spath and before spath. I was making adultlike, major decisions, at the age of 8 years old. There was no time nor room for me to just be a child.

The spath experience I have had and still do continue to have, somewhat, with the continued stalking…that spath experience almost pushed me off the cliff. NOBODY would EVER understand what that was like. Not all spaths are created equal and I think my x ppath got just a little extra dose of ugliness.

Everytime I hear a news report, in passing, about someone going off and killing a bunch of people, guess who comes to mind FIRST? Hm? Or how about having to go outside? I hardly ever leave myself as a sitting duck. I have been threatened so many times and so often. I did not CHOOSE that.

BAD CHOICES are one thing but being thrown in the mix is an entirely different one. I did not at the age of 3 years old CHOOSE to be sexually assaulted by an older cousin. I did not CHOOSE to have a heroin addicted mother who always put my life in danger. Sometimes we have NO CONTROL over what happens to our lives. Sometimes we can’t avoid the traumas.

Yes, at first, I CHOSE to have “IT” in my life, but only after his careful manipulation and gaslighting. When I found out what was going on, it was also MY CHOICE to throw it in the garbage where it belongs. After five years of non stop insanity, I broke free. (MY CHOICE) caps used for emphasis.

Yes, finally giving in and choosing to take medication has enriched my life completely. Totally. And, I am still in counseling. Both of them together are helping me more than I can ever say. It is also helping me with some of my PTSD symptoms.

If I hadn’t of reached out and gotten help at this point in my life, I am almost sure I would be dead by now, Ox.
That is how terrible it was. Spath honed in on all of my weaknesses and sore spots and played them to the hilt.

After a lifetime of suffering, I finally have something that helps me. Why would a person NOT reach out when they need it? To me, that’s almost as insane as the spath itself.

Thanks again Ox.
Have a good day.



Dupey, I am so encouraged by your strong, INCREDIBLY strong, personal healing (CAPS as emphasis, only). I remember, a few months back, reaching out through this computer screen and desperately trying to reach your hand, and you reaching your hand back. You have come a long, long way, dear one.

A person might not choose to reach out, Dupey, because of the pervasive stigmatism of not being able to do it all, alone. I know, for a certain, absolute fact, that I would not have “made it” this far, had it not been for the strong, wise, and inspirational support that I found on this site, and in my sessions with my counselor.

Today, I’m not in the obituaries. I’m still upright. I’m still breathing, feeling, and thinking. I may be experiencing a bunch of tripe that goes along with my immediate situation, but that will soon be at an end. YOUR story, OxD’s story, Donna’s story, Darwinsmom’s story, G1S’s story, Tami’s story………each and every contributing reader on this site has been instrumental in my healing process. And, my counselor has been brilliant.

There are, indeed, many things which we have no control over. The first one is the choices and actions of others. The rest follows. But, we DO have choices and options over our own actions and decisions.

Brightest and most sincere blessings, Dupey… are precious in this vast Universe

still reeling

Thanks everyone for all the help. Many perspectives out there. I just want to call out and say thank you for helping me through a rough, rough time in my life and not getting angry with my selfishness right now. I just want to genuinely express my thanks for your *UN*selfishness and hope that as Strongawoman said (your posts lift me up SO high, thank you, thank you), some of what I express is helpful to others…..even if it’s, “Oh but for the grace of G-d (Nature, Universe, fill in the blank higher power) go I!”

Altho, I have to say Strong, I’m not sure I’m happy that my post helps you see your “inadequacies!” Oh no!! Hopefully there is something positive for you in that!

Dupey, I can’t thank you enough for your support and so much of what you said is helpful beyond words. I love this: “Don’t let the depression eat you up. Hear me?” That is SO kind and comforting.
“You have to fight it back sometimes. I know. But the less attention you give the hurts, the more they dull and someday, sooner or later, they just go away.”
You said a mouthful here. Thinking and re-living and analyzing and Googling and not helpful AT ALL. I think some of this depression, as I said above, is about the knowledge that nothing will ever happen with this person because he is not interested, nor was he ever. That’s a blow that’s hard for an obsessive like me to take.
Thanks for that and for everything in your posts. Hugs and xo!! You sound so great – just keep on truckin’ Dupey. Keep on truckin’.

Truth, as always, thx for the kind and spot on thoughts. I have to agree with you and Skylar about the suffering aspect. Not that we need go around sighing with our chins dragging the ground all the time or live in this horrible pity party I seem to be involved in a lot, but for me, I need to *feel* the pain in order to get past it. When I was in group therapy (7 yrs twice a week!) I learned that lesson so well. The worst, most personally devastating sessions ultimately turned out to be the most meaningful and helpful for growth and insight. I am hoping that something good will rise from the experience with this grave asshole. Only now am I really seeing the nightmare for what it was. Unfortunately, coupled with no job, aging, my horrible self-concept, (the “if they only knew how terrible I was” syndrome…”they” being *everyone*) it is much worse than it has to be.

Ox I hear you about the therapy and meds. I have a great therapist and I’ve had so much therapy in my life, even she says, “reeling, you should be writing, not reading self-help books.” She knows me and after each session, my head is back together. This past year has been so rough, there is no way I couldn’t have situational depression unless I was very very religious and sure it was G-d’s plan and that is not me. Oh that it were!!!!!
Ox thank you for caring.

I hope I didn’t leave anyone out. I am crazy for all of you wonderful people.

Strong, want to thank you for thinking well of me. I want to be up to your standards and hope that you are correct about me. Like I said, I do belong to that “If they only knew” club so it’s difficult to believe good stuff about myself. You are truly an angel and so good for my soul.

Loving friends, here is a little gift to you from me, with all my heart:

“A friend is one to whom one may pour out all the contents of one’s heart, chaff and grain together, knowing that the gentlest of hands will take and sift it, keep what is worth keeping, and with the breath of kindness blow the rest away.”

Lotsa hugs and thanks for blowing off that chaff for me.

still reeling

Wish there was an Agree/Recommend button here!
Dupey, totally agree with Truth’s comments above. You are one strong and inspirational lady that I admire greatly.

And yes, Strong, I should change my screen name to Still Standing! Then hopefully Still Dancing! Endless possibilities. Thx.


Dear Truthspeak: Thank you for your very kind words.
I know they are meant with sincerity and understanding.
I appreciate your compassion.

It’s not often a ‘dupey’ is understood.
It has been such a very long, grueling, journey.
It was difficult enough before ppath came along and he only compounded it.
The best thing I ever did for myself was to cut it away and off me.

It was like literally severing my right arm off. That is how addicted to “IT” I became. And it was all done through conditioning and manipulation.
I honestly do believe he had me controlled to the point where I would have taken my own life, at his direction. That is how deep the abuse ran. Instead of giving in, I stood my ground and defended myself and put a stop to it, no matter how my heart felt. I did that because I knew if I hadn’t of, he would have murdered me. I still wonder.

All this, ON TOP of everything that was there before “IT” came along. Oh it showed interest and learned all my vulnerabilities and how to best destroy me because “IT” was jealous that a woman could be stronger than “IT”. And, that was the whole premise of “IT” building the relationship in the first place. A scammer, a con artist, a manipulator and a liar. To only serve “ITS” own purpose and for no other reason. He wants and has always wanted to destroy me because I am stronger than “IT” is. I proved to him that YES, we all have choices.

A person, I think, stifles from reaching out because the trauma is so difficult to explain. For instance: My counselor gave me two books to read. So we could ‘talk about them’. I had them for perhaps a couple of months and only got half way through the first one and I returned them, primarily unread, and I explained to her that I do not have the patience to sit and read. Isn’t that strange?
Yet, I can sit here and talk and write with all of you.

She said that our blog, here, at Love Fraud, is a very important part of the structure of rebuilding ourselves.
It gives us that freedom of expression and acceptance and understanding that is difficult to find in the general world.

NOBODY wants to deal with the truth and the realization that YES: this ugliness DOES exist. It rattle and shakes their world. Their safe, little, head in the sand world. That is where the lack of understanding comes from and where the ppath/spath get their power from.

What do we do about it? I asked a young teenager what she thought should be done about this and she said that when people go get their drivers license’s they should be given a psycho test. I asked her how we would gauge that or define it? She had no answer. She said she couldn’t think of a way to accurately ‘judge’ someone like that. That’s the problem, there is no answer. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be trying to FIND ONE because the survival of good, upstanding, moral people’s lives depend on it.

The predators have too many ‘rights’, while their ‘victims’ are left holding the bag. This problem and THESE CRIMES and the basis from where they are coming from needs to be explored or we are just going to hear more and more of this and there will only be more and more victims.

The journey isn’t over yet.
It’s not over until we close our eyes and our soul leaves our bodies.

We must always be vigilant with ourselves but find that happy balance that prevents us from becoming just like them.

Thanks for the love and support today, Truthspeak…
you know it’s coming right back at ya; huh?



((still reeling)): I am so happy to hear you sounding so much better today.
That makes me want to go dancing!

It’s all about realizing who you are and what you have.
That the days come and go and that they should really mean something.
That we have a purpose and a right to make each one count, according to what WE choose.

US and our lives do not have to be dominated by these horrible experiences. But we have to choose to ‘move’ on these ‘inspirations’ and ‘aha’ moments when we have them because if we don’t, the days are just going to keep coming and going without meaning. Exactly where our predators want us to be. We have to break free from the mindset that we are ‘victims’ and move over into the STRONG REALM of “SURVIVORS”.

mwah!!!! ((still reeling))
You knows I lubs ya. xxoo



Stillreeling/Stilldancing (lol

Hmm, inadequacies was not the right word. Maybe weaknesses is better. I think I was trying to say that reading your post helped me because I identified with the whole guilt thing and the coming to terms with being lied to. It’s been a painful process… a painful process as so many here can testify. When you wrote about your pain and how you were feeling I thought, yes I know that pain. I’ve been there. It isn’t somewhere I wish to revisit, Still. But there’s an album by a British band Stereophonics. “You got to go there to come back”

I love the track “Maybe tomorrow, I’ll find my way home” btway, but I love the Album title especially.

We gotta go there to come back. yes seree bob


Still reeling: I don’t post here frequently either but happened to catch your comment. There were two different things about your post that resonated with me. One is your mentioning a lot of fear and insecurity. You reminded me of how I have been having a great week (and really a great life in general). I’ve been taking salsa dancing classes with a teacher that I’ve wanted to study from for a year. I’m doing Zumba almost every day and generally having a great life. Then today a stray thought crossed my mind – a paranoid thought about a possible event that could possibly happen with someone I know. I won’t go into details but it was a form of catastrophic thinking – worst case scenario. All of a sudden I went into fear. My energy just went down 10 notches. I went to a new salsa club tonight and was off my game which made me feel insecure with my dancing as well. Then I looked in the mirror and thought I looked fat….FEAR is that intangible state that kills joy. And the thing about it is that if you don’t recognize it for what it is, it will suck all the positive things out of your life. Know that your fears are only fears, and they are not the truth about your life. And the thing is that usually the thing you are afraid of is not true.

The other response I had to your post was that if I were a coach or therapist for you, I would have you write down 10 things you love about yourself – 10 great qualities you have. Then read them to yourself until you start to “feel” those qualities. Let that feeling grow until you are starting to feel good about yourself. Knowing who you are and seeing your inner beauty is the best defense I know against fearful, anxious thoughts. They can still come in, but they won’t take hold.

I think – and you’ve said many times – that the spath had so much power over you because he was able to mirror back to you some good qualities you have. And now you are afraid that those qualities don’t really exist. They do. And even if they didn’t, they would if you said so. Those beautiful magical things the spath saw in you and made you feel is your inner beauty, which exists with or without a spath. If you can find it and feel it, you’re 90% recovered IMO.


What a great summary! I’m proud to say that I’ve completed my PHD in psychopathy, self-published my thesis (memoir) and am on my way to complete recovery! It’s nice finally to be able to read something intended to be humorous about psychopathy, and actually appreciate the humor it in…..

still reeling

Strongawoman, thanks for your message. I was a kid during the British Invasion and the music from that era is and always be just a part of my heart and soul. You know how it is when you’re an impressionable kid, the great (and not so great) experiences you go through resonate strongly all through your life. I will go from here to google and listen to your song.

You said:
“coming to terms with being lied to. It’s been a painful process” a painful process as so many here can testify. When you wrote about your pain and how you were feeling I thought, yes I know that pain. I’ve been there.”

Yes. Yes. Yes. It’s so painful and where I’m glad you understand, which makes this forum so helpful, I’m sorry too. Sorry for both of us.

I know what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger, and I *well* know it was MY choice to fantacize a few comments, emails and convos into a possible beautiful mutually supportive friendship. Of course, that doesn’t help with the pain and lousy feelings and just emptiness. It isn’t *him*, it’s *me* and my guilt, shame, humiliation and the circumstances in my life intensifying my need for this fantasy. Aging, no job, feeling useless, purposeless, etc., puts me in a very bad state and it seems if I focus on him and what went down, that is the only thing that actually makes me feel better. It’s a huge catch 22 and a recipe for misery. I don’t even like the guy and think he’s a smarmy creep, but the fantasy was so lovely.
Strong, I so appreciate you and your warm, generous nature. May you continue to do well and to think back less and less until the thought of path just fades to nothingness or just maybe a lesson learned, no emotional response. Apathy.

Stargazer, gosh, you were up late. Hope you don’t have insomnia or were unsettled after last night. I so appreciate your post. And just let me say I’m very glad you are enjoying Zumba and also feeling well and strong and that life is great right now….very glad for you.

WOW-yes, I very much resonate as well to that stray thought, the worst case scenario, catastrophizing, jump to the bottom of the well thinking. Then obsessing about it till full blown panic takes over, which many of us understand is plain old fear. I can just absolutely feel how you felt…the energy drop, the insecurity at the club, the reflection in the mirror… does steal your joy and I truly hope you were able to float through it, snap it away or whatever tricks you use to step out of the fear state. Thank you for that reminder.

I so often watch people who aren’t affected in that way, and I’m so in awe. I know for me this is a wiring defect, supported by nurture, so it’s difficult to control at times, but again, it’s so helpful to know that there are folks like you out there who experience these same feelings and are doing so well. So again, I appreciate your sharing.
It really helps.

I love your suggestion about the “10 things” and I think I will also work into that a few about strength…I need so badly to feel strong and resilient. When I met path, even tho I HATE aging so much, I felt that being older had put me into a great position for accepting him as he was and being strong enough to appreciate his good qualities and accept his positive feelings about me, vague, cryptic and guarded though they were. So I know I have it in me to get back there to the strength.

Lastly, star, I hope you are right about the mirror. No matter what I read or try to understand about paths, I just find it hard to relate. I don’t even know what this creature wanted from me. I guess because he was getting into trouble, he just threw me under the bus so I’ll never know. It was that easy for him, but I just can’t accept it even tho I see how much he *didn’t* care. I so wish, so wish, I could get to a place where I truly felt in my gut what I know intellectually.

I have copied both your posts into an email to myself so that I can re and re-read and make my list.

Thank you both so much….

I wish you continued healing, comfort and that nurturing glow of well-being we all love and deserve.

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