When people realize that that they are involved with a sociopath, the standard advice from Lovefraud is that they should, as quickly as possible, cut the predator out of their lives. That means no phone calls, no e-mails, no texts, and certainly no in-person meetings. It means No Contact.
Of course, there are times when this is difficult, as when our reader works with the sociopath, or they have children together. In these cases, they need to implement No Contact as best they can. But let’s now talk about situations where it is possible to get rid of the person, such as in a dating relationship.
What is the best way to establish No Contact? Clearly, firmly and permanently.
The rules of No Contact
The book called The Gift of Fear, by Gavin de Becker, devotes several pages to the topic of rejecting an unwanted suitor, and these pages are among the most helpful of the entire book.
De Becker writes in the context of a woman who decides she doesn’t want to be involved with a man. Do not, the author says, try to “let him down easy.” Here’s what he writes:
One rule applies to all types of unwanted pursuit: Do not negotiate. Once a woman has made the decision that she doesn’t want a relationship with a particular man, it needs to be said one time, explicitly. Almost any contact after that rejection will be seen as negotiation ”¦ If you tell someone ten times that you don’t want to talk to him, you are talking to him—nine times more than you wanted to.
Here are more points that de Becker makes in the book:
- If you get 30 messages from a pursuer, and finally call him back to say, “stop calling,” he learns that after 30 attempts, he will get a response.
- If you make an excuse like, “I don’t want to be in a relationship right now,” the stalker assumes you will want to be in a relationship later, and keeps calling.
- If you say, “You’re a great guy, but I’m not the one for you,” the stalker thinks you’re just confused, and will come around in time.
- Never explain why you don’t want a relationship. If you give a reason, it gives him something to challenge.
- A nice or delicate rejection is often taken as affection.
“The way to stop contact is to stop contact,” de Becker says. “I suggest one explicit rejection and after that absolutely no contact. If you call the pursuer back, or agree to meet, or send him a note, or have somebody warn him off, you buy another six weeks of his unwanted pursuit.”
Giving in
What happens if you’re wishy-washy about No Contact? Not long ago, Lovefraud received the following letter from a reader who we’ll call “Lenore.”
I literally had to count the days that went by as I refused contact with him, and on day 120, I celebrated because I felt healed. Well, on day 121, he emailed me, and against my better judgment, I emailed him back. He told me he had been in therapy, he realized what he had done wrong, he was on medication.
I was cautious and wary, and decided, amidst warnings of concern from my friends and family, to perhaps work on a friendship again. We worked on being friends for a few weeks, and everything was great and fine. I felt in control of the situation.
Then his old behaviors started creeping in. He installed a GPS app on my phone so he could track my whereabouts. He began calling and texting incessantly, and flipping out if I didn’t answer right away. The verbal and psychological abuse had begun again. Fortunately, this time it did not escalate to physical abuse. He began lying again, gaslighting and acting erratically, and began seeing other women on the side. Last night, it once again became too much and I told him not to contact me again because my heart and my spirit couldn’t take any more pain, and his inconsistency is so bad for my son.
So today begins Day One again without him. I am writing you today to tell you that your no contact advice was the best advice I didn’t take. For 120 days I went without him. It took a while, but by day 90 I was happy and free and at peace. Now I am back to square one.
No Contact is the path to healing from an entanglement with a sociopath. The stronger you can be about No Contact, the faster you will recover.
Delta, WOW!! Your descriptions of Narcs and Spaths is so accurate and SPOT ON!
As most of you prob. know by now, its not my ex, lover,or anyone lke that in my past, its my 2 daughters,{now 44 and 46 ] who are sociopaths.They are both Narcs for sure, and Im sure Socios as well.Its taken me over a year,{since finding LF,-Thank God for LF!} to even scratch the surface of how malevolent, sick, evil, and disfunctional these creatures are, and what a toxic waste land they leave in their wake.Ive been NC with the younger one for 17 years,{her wish,} and NC with older one for 16 months.
Its taken me this long to even begin to understand gaslighting, mirroring, psychopathic rage,constant lying, etc. etc.
I just thought I was losing my mind! And thats exactly what these bitches wanted!
My older Ds ex {5 years separated, still not divorced}, rang me 2 nights a go. He got back from a trip to India with his GF a month ago, had NC up till now. Seems they are”having a break from each other’. but he said.”Two hours with N. is still worth two years with D!”{the spath.}
Apparently hed asked D. to have the kids for a few days, as he had to go away,-she claimed shed be in China at that time, for work.My SIL rang a friend, S, to tell her D .was in China . “No, shes not in China, shes here!” she said.
Constant lies, and he said she constantly trips herself up as she cant even remember her lies.
He told me,
“My brother said,”Funny how both our parents are Narcissists, and you went and married one!”
First time Ive heard him refer to her as a Narc.
He said to the 3 kids,
“KIds, if Mum EVER gets her act together, would you like to go back to living alternate weeks with her?
The older girl {15,} said,
“No way, Dad! Were NOT going back to THAT!!
And the boy,{12} said,”No way, Dad, Im never going back to living out of a backpack again!”
The younger girl, M, {9} said,”Yes, Id like that!”. She is still too young to twig whats going on, and she still misses her Mummy, only seeing her weekends.
I was reassured when SIL said to me,
“M, you must NOT take her personally. I can assure you she treats everyone with equal contempt, derision, lies,
and con tricks!He should know he was with her for 14 years, and he LOATHES her.He told me all her so called “friends” are on Facebook, she has no real friends, and certainly no love relationship.What temp work she is able to get is via FB, and she lives for her” mates” on it.He said, She lives in a total fantasy world,is renting a room in a flat,has nor matured emotionally past 13 years of age, everything is about HER, and naturally NOTHING is ever her fault.He told me she contributes zilch financially towards the 3 kids, it all falls on him.
Im finally getting better at putting her out of my mind. Not easy, shes still my daughter.But she is so toxic to me.
Love,Mama GemXX Great news re your diet, Oxy, way to go!!”Good on you!” as they say in Oz!
SHMS, like you i spent a significant amount of time researching and learning and even though i have had the most no contact in years 8 to be precise, i can obsess about the idiot in a heartbeat, i don’t need to be on this site to do it. In fact given the opportunity i seem to want to rehash it all over and over and i hope like you i get to the point where i don’t want to go there at all . Even with all the no contact i still can get obsessive, it’s very frustrating to expend so much energy and i’m so aware of how not just the s but other ones i’ve encountered by proxy or through aquaintances, they just seem to consume everyones energy and im hoping for th e day when i don’t have to hear about another vampire sucking anyone dry, but im finding them everywhere lately. Ignorance was sure bliss before the s. luv kindheart
Dear Gem,
I’m glad that your SIL called you. I know he hasn’t really done right by you or the kids, but at least he isn’t totally like your Daughter. I’m also glad that he “gets it” about her lies.
“”Gone to China” LOL ROTFLMAO That’s a good one!!!!
Keep on sending e mails and or cards to your GK even if they never answer you. It is obvious that your SIL isn’t teaching them the manners he should but some parents are like that and either don’t know themselves or dont’ put enough stress on it to say to the kids “let’s send a thank you to your granny.”
It isn’t perfect or what you would want but maybe it will be better than nothing and when they are a bit older they will remember your kindness.
Maybe you could get him to let you keep them for a week during their school summer holidays.
Thanks for the good wishes! I’m sticking to the FOOD PLAN (don’t say “diet!” LOL) but in the evenings I get ravenous and want to eat the legs off the chairs! LOL I’m just drinking a nice organic decaf tea and that helps to have something in the cup even if it doesn’t have calories! My blood sugar is fine though, blood pressure is fine and I’m going back to see my doc tomorrow (I’m not taking any medication for either blood sugar or blood pressure) so I am pleased about that. Plus, all my tests at the hospital came back wonderful for a woman of my age, heart is great!!! Arteries are great! and even after my smoking my lung function tests were GREAT! So I guess I’m not doing too badly for a fat old woman!!! LOL
Hope your spring weather is as nice as our fall, but we are SOOO very dry! Wild fires all around our state and have been having earth quakes in my state and in Henry’s state next door! So just hoping we don’t either burn up in a wild fire or shake down like Haiti! But hey, that wouldn’t be half as bad as a psychopath!!! We can deal with natural disasters, it is just the UNNATURAL critters we have problems with! (((hugs))))
Dear All – thank you for reading my post and taking the time to comment.
Kindheart48 – I agree about Sam Vaknin. Either he’s an N or a P. Though he’s okay on describing the inner world of N’s to an extent, because he’s an N or P he ‘overglamorises’ these disorders. Also – because he can’t feel Empathy it’s a no-brainer that he’s very lacking when it comes to describing Empathic people. How can he describe acurately something he will never understand. It’s very Narcissistic and Spathy to try and ‘feed off Empaths’ and have control over many Empaths with his writings. He should stick to describing the inner world of N’s and P’s – the rest is a MASSIVE overeach for him. Of course, being an N (or S or P) – he’s incapable of ‘getting’ this very basic fact of life. Sam Vaknin reminds me of the story of the ‘blind men and the Elephant’. Each would feel part of the animal and come up with a description. One felt the truck, one the leg another the tail. Of course non of the blind men could really describe the ‘being-ness’ of the Elephant at all al – I might have stolen this idea from Oxy.
Bulletproof – I’ve alway enjoyed the kind of passionate, no-nonsense and honest feel of your posts. All I can say is that my exN is lucky we live in the UK with little access to guns! LOL I still reserve the right to give into my worst impulses one day. Maybe when I’m a little old lady and a stint in old poky might actually be considered ‘my last big adventure’ HA HA HA. This is not good thinking for newbies or if you’re still suffering PTSD though- very triggering I’m afraid.
For – Still-have-my-soul and ‘newbies’ or people who’re still in the really ‘harsh and tough’ stages of recovery.
Sometimes I think when someone comes on LF to share that they are doing better – it can be a bit of a double-edged sword – when everyone is in a different stage of healing.
Especially for people who are still really in trauma, suffering PTSD symptoms or who are feeling suicidal still (which WAS me) perhaps to hears someone say they’re doing alot better is helpful in that it shows that someone else has gone on from ‘where you are’ to a much happier place. However – it does also perhaps make some people feel ‘what’s wrong with me’ that I’m not healed. I had those thoughts to when I was like lying in bed or drinking too much, or too scared to go out and all that stuff that went on.
Why am I feeling real good now (2 years NC) – well I can share my personal reasons. May it help someone else I hope. Thiks worked for me — but everyone will and should find their own path. Some of the things I think I’ve tried to learn are:
-Everyone has to heal in their own way. No-one can do the soul work for you. Getting well is rightfully your one and only goal. After being hit by the dumper truck S N or P, it’s right and proper to put your healing above all things. I scaled back all my commitments as much as I could for a year, took as much time off as I could and told ‘a cover story’ rather than share my private business with anyone.
-I cut every negative person right out of my life and pared down to 4 good people. I didn’t see them often, but I did trust them when we did get together.
-It’s a hard and lonely road to the sunlight – but there are some people out there who care and want to help you, but you’ve got to find them for yourself.
-I got lucky – and luck plays it’s part for everyone. In my case my exN went NC with me. He was in a new relationship and didn’t want to know me because I managed to cause a lot of trouble before him and his new woman before he left me completely. At the time – I was desperate for contact and jealous of other LFers who had stalkers (yes seriously). But in retrospect I can see that what he thought was ‘punishing me’ from being banished from his ‘divine presence’ – was in fact the only and best thing he’s ever done for me.
-Some of my behaviours were helping, and some weren’t – but that there’s no poing beating yourself up for the stuff that doesn’t work. In my case I drank like a fish for ages. It worked – cos I would ‘pass out’ and not have to feel anymore. But ultimately it didn’t work cos alcohol is a depressant and was holding me in my depression once the crisis had passed.
-I got professional help from a therapist for the drinking issues. I was also able to express some of my child hood pain about growing up with an ‘absent’ father and a narcissistic/histronic mother – or maybe she had PTSD from my father. I forgave my parents alot, but learned massive new boundaries with my mother. Our relationship is slowly becoming more manageable. Though my father is dead.
-I made it my goal to accept my feelings – from murderous rage, to suicidal ideation, to despair, to loneliness. I thought to myself – “if I’m able to care for other’s who are far from perfect, I can learn to love myself and have compassion for myself too’. I said – I’ll put off acting on my feelings (of murderous rage) until I’m a bit calmer. Let’s just ‘wait and see!’
-I spent every day for months on the internet looking at stuff about S’s N’s and P’s until I ‘felt I understood’ what resources where out there. It’s kind of like my specialist subject now. I vowed to learn what I’ve used to good use in my music, writing and in my work with child protection. This is so my experience and pain has not been without some benefits to me in the end. Some of my most popular songs that I know perform are humourous takes on exN. May I’ll get rich off him someday. That would really bake his noodle!!! Ha Ha Ha.
-I told my kitty-cat the secrets of my heart and got endless comfort from his warm little body.
-I picked things I was ‘good at’ and started to accept some ego/narcissistic gratification again, without panicking that that made me an ‘inverted narcissist’. I shucked off the who ‘co-dependant’ line of thinking as unhelpful to me personally. That kind of thinking did help me to understand why I am the way I am (adult daughter of an N mother) – but not many clues about how to leave it all behind. Also that stuff makes people take on too much responsibility for the abuser’s behaviour in my view. Honestly if you’re a co-dependent type in a relationship with a ‘kind person’ a ‘good person’ it’s unlikely to end up with your suffering PTSD in my view!
– As soon as I was able – i built up my ‘programme’ of contacts and ‘fun things’ from in the first days: Getting out of bed and having a shower, to know going out 3 times a week etc etc. I pushed myself as much as I could, but many days what’s lot’s of backsliding. Every day when I wake up I say to myself “Just be happy Delta1 – you deserve it”.
– I don’t allow abusive behaviour in my life from anyone – friends, family or boyfriend. If a certain person & i can’t get along reasonably, I call them on any abusive behaviour – once we’ve tried to talk our issues through 2 or 3 times with no result- then they’re put quietly into the NC pile. Certain behaviours in my close relationships are OUT lying, raging/shouting, backbiting and aggression be it active or passive aggression. This goes two ways – no abusive behaviour allowed from me either. Same applies if someone brings out the worst in me, and I can’t sort things out reasonably – then I think that person & I are ‘just not suited!
-Other less close friends – who are ‘okay’ people – but who are maybe a bit fake, shallow or whatever – but that I have to deal with at work, or who are ‘friends of friends’: Those people get the ‘no disclosure’ treatment- I’ll talk to em about the weather or whatever, but they don’t get to ‘know anything’ about me -it’s strictly ‘name, rank and number’ time!
Finally -Gemini-Girl aka Mama Gem & also to Oxy: It’s a long learning curve and it never ends. It’s like graduating from the College of Spathy! LOL. You graduate but you keep on learning forever! It too 2 years to get my Master of SW – why not 2 years to get my ‘Spath free’ certificate.
Stay well everyone…….
Blessings
Delta 1.
Dear Delta,
Darling, I think you have EARNED your PhD in psychopathy, and the above post is your award winning thesis! You pretty well covered the healing process from A-Z.
Keeping our friendly distance from those people in our lives we must work with and keeping a barricaded distance from those with psychopathic traits, and holding our trusted and true friends close is what life is all about.
We can and should continue to make new friends as those good people EARN our trust. Not everyone is worthy to be my friend. If that sounds narcissistic too bad! LOL Only those people who treat me as well as I treat them are worthy to enter my circle of friendship. My circle is an exclusive club and the only applicants that are accepted are those whose moral compass is proven to be a good one.
Keep up your “post doc studies” Delta! (as I know you will) I am so glad that things are going well for you and I say a lusty and very sincere CONGRATULATIONS on your PhD in Psychopathy! You EARNED IT with HONORS!!! Thank you for sharing your thesis with us! Very good! (((hugs))))
Oxy, I was thinking about what you said above about ER and AA and to me it’s more like recovering from surgery. LF to me is like a pain killer. It makes recovery WAY easier. But to me there comes a time where the focus needs to shift beyond recovering from massive surgery and I will need to get off the painkillers (LF) and move on.
I’m not saying it’s a bad thing for anyone else to be on here for however long they need/like. Everyone is on their own journey and recovery is different for us ALL. But I truly believe that the more I recover, the less I will be on LF.
I KNOW I’ll drop by from time to time to see old friends and read all the incredible entries. I just hope one day I read this stuff and feel like this subject is a million miles away from me.
I will happily blog to support newbies who are like newborn colts trying to figure out where the hell they are and how the heck to stand up.
No judgements to anyone. For now the stitches are still on, I’m still hooked to an I.V. and someone is checking my vitals on a regular basis. So I’m not beating myself up over the “painkiller” use.
Day 4 (and didn’t respond to his email yesterday for the first time in a decade!)
Just my two cents.
Peace Sisters
SHMS,
My analogy is different, and I don’t see LF as a “painkiller” at all but as an educational program, and I see myself as a “life-long learner” which is something that was taught us in college.
I see recovery not so much as a broken leg or a physical wound that will “heal” and “be done with” but as a process of growth! Not just to knit two pieces of skin or bone together but to “grow” not just to repair but to improve, and remodel.
I used to think that “healing” was like repairing a broken bone, but unfortunately for me, I found that my arrogant feeling of being “healed” and okay only let me become fodder for the next psychopathic cannot that pointed itself in my direction.
Now I see Healing as a continuing process of growth and change, improvement and remodeling.
LF is so much more than a “pain killer” for me, in fact, the things I’ve learned here at LF have actually been quite painful sometimes, increased the pain, for the moment, but again like surgery, in order to heal we must cause pain–like draining an abscess.
To me NOW “healing” is a lot more complex than I ever thought it was, it isn’t simply “getting over” one episode with a psychopath, but it is changing the fundamental way I look at myself and at life, and relationships into something much much deeper and more meaningful and more healthy than what I have done in the past.
Because there is such a wonderful group of people here at LF and people from whom I learn each day, I continue to GET more from LF than I give. I don’t see a need to stop that positive process in order to tell myself “Oh, I don’t “need” that any more” So I don’t see “graduating” from LF as a goal or a road sign that indicates I am “now healed” or “now okay” or “now don’t need that”—if that makes any sense.
If you feel that “no longer needing to come to LF” is a sign that you are healed and over the trauma, I will be happy for you that you consider yourself healed, moved on and better. Independent as it were. I hope you reach that goal quickly.
Congratulations on 4 days of NC.
Erin B SNURFF, SNORT ROTFLMAO!!!!
Adamsrib – remember this thread is about going NC. Now is the perfect opportunity for us to learn to go NC with any little Spathy fishy – male or female!!
I could be wrong – but I’d bet money that I’m not. Super Spath antenna working over here- and also with many of the other ‘LF old hands’ from posts above.
Blessings
Delta1
DEar Delta,
Did you know we have a garden club here? Yea, when the BS gets composted deep enough, we all go out and re pot our potted plants. Either that or we put gray stones in our garden areas for decorations!
Years ago My GF was dating this psychopath (I didn’t know what to call him but he was a JERK!) and he got mad at me, I had been refinishing a piece of antique furniture at her garage and had it disassembled…it had been there for a while. Well, he went out of town for a weekend and she and I went to his house to feed his dog, let ourselves in through is garage, and guess what! A couple of the rungs of my antique piece were there in HIS GARAGE. He had taken a couple of the pieces that he thought wouldn’t be missed until I went to put the piece back together but the loss of which would spoil the piece….
I confronted him about this later, and of course he was FURIOUS. So I started treating him like a POTTED PLANT and when I would be at her house and he came over there I just pretended he was INVISIBLE…if he spoke to me, I was DEAF & it was INFURIATING TO HIM. VERY passive-aggressive on my part, but I loved every minute of it and there was diddly squat he could do about it. Long story, but she finally got rid of him!
Actually that is what NC is, it is treating them like a potted plant, just part of the landscape that has no interest or appeal. Gets’em every time! LOL Getting ATTENTION is the name of their game. No attention is FRUSTRATION to them. Hee hee
Oxy- You are calorie counting….very good, I need the recipe…how in God’s name do I stop replacing sex, love and intimacy with delicious food and drink??? I’m and former 9stone svelte 5foot 4 now I’m just hitting 10 stone and my belly is looking like it is taking on a life of it’s own….I gotta stop….but then I have to trust in relationship again….because I can’t bear being thin, alone and lonely..I might run the risk of falling for another Don Juan Psychopath….so getting fat is an unconscious way to keep men away….gotta stop..Oxy you are always the trigger, the inspiration and the rock of sense…howz the Die-t going ?